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3rd3y3
09-29-2010, 01:58 AM
When we read verses 65-82 of Sura 18 we come across a blessed servant of God who walked, talked and passed wisdom to Moses. We are not given his name anywhere in the Quran nor any knowledge of his true Identity. The following are the relevant verses:

SURA 18

65. They found one of our servants, whom we blessed with mercy, and bestowed upon him from our own knowledge.

66. Moses said to him, "Can I follow you, that you may teach me some of the knowledge and the guidance bestowed upon you?"

67. He said, "You cannot stand to be with me.

68. "How can you stand that which you do not comprehend?"

69. He said, "You will find me, God willing, patient. I will not disobey any command you give me."

70. He said, "If you follow me, then you shall not ask me about anything, unless I choose to tell you about it."

71. So they went. When they boarded a ship, he bore a hole in it. He said, "Did you bore a hole in it to drown its people? You have committed something terrible."

72. He said, "Did I not say that you cannot stand to be with me?"

73. He said, "I am sorry. Do not punish me for my forgetfulness; do not be too harsh with me."

74. So they went. When they met a young boy, he killed him. He said, "Why did you kill such an innocent person, who did not kill another person? You have committed something horrendous."

75. He said, "Did I not tell you that you cannot stand to be with me?"

76. He said, "If I ask you about anything else, then do not keep me with you. You have seen enough apologies from me."

77. So they went. When they reached a certain community, they asked the people for food, but they refused to host them. Soon, they found a wall about to collapse, and he fixed it. He said, "You could have demanded a wage for that!"

78. He said, "Now we have to part company. But I will explain to you everything you could not stand.

79. "As for the ship, it belonged to poor fishermen, and I wanted to render it defective. There was a king coming after them, who was confiscating every ship, forcibly.

80. "As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with his transgression and disbelief.

81. "We willed that your Lord substitute in his place another son; one who is better in righteousness and kindness.

82. "As for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city. Under it, there was a treasure that belonged to them. Because their father was a righteous man, your Lord wanted them to grow up and attain full strength, then extract their treasure. Such is mercy from your Lord. I did none of that of my own volition. This is the explanation of the things you could not stand"....
















The traditional scholars have maintained that the servant of God spoken of in these verses was a man named Khidr, and all sorts of tales have ensued as to who exactly this Khidr may be! How, or where from, they arrived at naming the servant Khidr, can be nothing more than mere speculation.

However, by researching the above Quranic verses it becomes certain that this servant of God could not have been a human being, but that he was one of God"s angels who was commisioned to undertake specific duties at a specific time.

This understanding is based on the following:

1- First, it is significant to note that nowhere in the above verses are we told that this teacher was human nor are we given a name for him. The hadith advocates quickly made him a human, and they gave him the name of Khidr !!!

God refers to him as "one of our servants" and since this would apply to humans as well as to angels (all are servants of the Almighty), then it is possible that he was an angel and not a human.

2- The servant suddenly appears on the scene, tells Moses very significant words:

"you cannot stand to be with me" 18:67

Now the words: "you cannot stand to be with me" have a very important significance. If the servant was human why would Moses not be able to stand with him? This again indicates that this servant was endowed with abilities and knowledge that were beyond human understanding, or that he is altogther from a different plane of existence and that God only deemed it possible for Moses to communicate with him on a temporary basis and for specific reasons.

3- The servant of God was commissioned by God to terminate the life of a young boy. This act bears great significance once again on the identity of the servant. The servant tells Moses the reason he was commanded to terminate the life of the boy:

"As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with his transgression and disbelief" 18:80

The reason this is very significant is that the life of the boy was terminated before he even committed the sin of burdening his parents with transgression and disbelief!

This means that at that point of the boy"s life (before committing the sin) he was still innocent. We know that killing an innocent soul is prohibited in the Quran, and thus if any human were to kill him at the time it would have been murder. And God prohibits humans from killing innocent souls. However, God terminates the life of all souls at the time God wishes. In that case this would not be murder. It would simply be a case of terminating the life of a soul in accordance with God"s decree.

Here we must remember that God commissions angels (and not humans) the task of terminating people"s lives (6:61, 16:28, 47:27). Once again, this indicates that the servant of God was indeed an angel and not a human being.

4- The servant of God performs a number of acts that imply knowledge of the future and terminating lives, then dissappears from the scene as mysteriously as he appears. One would expect this servant (had he been human) to have futher mention, impact or association with Moses or the events that follow in Moses life, but he dissapears from the scene and we never hear of him again.

LORD NOSE
09-29-2010, 10:07 AM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75088&highlight=moses+the+wise+man

DeeBlock
09-30-2010, 12:36 AM
Nice build, 3rd.

It is insightful.

Iron Ninja
09-30-2010, 03:46 AM
Al Khidr. (The Green Man). The patron saint of those in search of God.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
09-30-2010, 07:38 AM
This is very strange to me.

81. "We willed that your Lord substitute in his place another son; one who is better in righteousness and kindness.

Why does he say "your" instead of "our" Lord? Is that unusual or is that just how the Koran portrays angels and such?

If that's anomalous I doubt he's a servant of God.

And in addition, 67. He said, "You cannot stand to be with me.

Probably just means you cannot stand my company. Its not literal standing. Its "I will sicken or disturb you, you won't be able to stand me" (unless the Arabic language carries very different meanings then the English and stand only means to literally stand.)

DeeBlock
09-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Fine eye.

Hellspawn
11-15-2010, 07:39 AM
The traditional scholars have maintained that the servant of God spoken of in these verses was a man named Khidr, and all sorts of tales have ensued as to who exactly this Khidr may be! How, or where from, they arrived at naming the servant Khidr, can be nothing more than mere speculation.

However, by researching the above Quranic verses it becomes certain that this servant of God could not have been a human being, but that he was one of God"s angels who was commisioned to undertake specific duties at a specific time.

it is also pure assumption.

his understanding is based on the following:

1- First, it is significant to note that nowhere in the above verses are we told that this teacher was human nor are we given a name for him. The hadith advocates quickly made him a human, and they gave him the name of Khidr !!!

God refers to him as "one of our servants" and since this would apply to humans as well as to angels (all are servants of the Almighty), then it is possible that he was an angel and not a human.

But it is possible that he was a human. Especially that the word "Ibed" wich is the plural of "Abd" that means slave or servant is mostly used when Allah adresses humans.

Examples :

"The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself." (Quran 4:173)

Here, God speaks about Jesus as a human AND the angels as different entities.

"The offspring of those whom We bore with Nuh; surely he was a grateful servant." (Quran 17:4)

Again, nuh the prophet, human so called servant.

A mention of the mercy of your Lord to His servant Zakariya. (Quran 19:3)

Zachary, another human beign called servant.

Bear patiently what they say, and remember Our servant Dawood (David), the possessor of power; surely he was frequent in returning (to Allah). (Quran 39:18)

And remember Our servant Ayyub (Job), when he called upon his Lord: The Shaitan (Devil) has afflicted me with toil and torment. (Quran 39:42)

Allah sets forth an example to those who disbelieve the wife of Nuh (Noah) and the wife of Lut (Lott): they were both under two of Our righteous servants, but they acted treacherously towards them so they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said: Enter both the fire with those who enter. (Quran 66:11)

You can search in all the Quran and you won't find a single verse where God calls the angels his servants (of course I speak of the arabic term "Abd").

Also early in this same Sura (verse 61) Moses calls his boy Servant, why didnt't you post the verse, because it is in contradiction with your theory ? And when Musa said to his servant : I will not cease until I reach the junction of the two rivers or I will go on for years.

Do you think that the boy was an angel too ?

2- The servant suddenly appears on the scene, tells Moses very significant words:

"you cannot stand to be with me" 18:67

Now the words: "you cannot stand to be with me" have a very important significance. If the servant was human why would Moses not be able to stand with him? This again indicates that this servant was endowed with abilities and knowledge that were beyond human understanding, or that he is altogther from a different plane of existence and that God only deemed it possible for Moses to communicate with him on a temporary basis and for specific reasons.

The exact arabic word is "sabr" that means patience :لَنْ تَسْتَطِيعَ مَعِيَ صَبْرًا
http://www.wordreference.com/aren/%D8%B5%D9%8E%D8%A8%D9%92%D8%B1%D9%8B

So by sayin you won't be patient with me, Al Khidhr knows that Moses won't support his deeds without an explanation. And that's exactely what happened ; At the third question of Moses, he explained every thing to him then left him.[/quote]


3- The servant of God was commissioned by God to terminate the life of a young boy. This act bears great significance once again on the identity of the servant. The servant tells Moses the reason he was commanded to terminate the life of the boy:

"As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with his transgression and disbelief" 18:80

The reason this is very significant is that the life of the boy was terminated before he even committed the sin of burdening his parents with transgression and disbelief!

This means that at that point of the boy"s life (before committing the sin) he was still innocent. We know that killing an innocent soul is prohibited in the Quran, and thus if any human were to kill him at the time it would have been murder. And God prohibits humans from killing innocent souls. However, God terminates the life of all souls at the time God wishes. In that case this would not be murder. It would simply be a case of terminating the life of a soul in accordance with God"s decree. Here we must remember that God commissions angels (and not humans) the task of terminating people"s lives (6:61, 16:28, 47:27). Once again, this indicates that the servant of God was indeed an angel and not a human being.

This si wrong because there are other cases where humans can terminate a life, the most famous story is Abraham's one, when he was commanded to kill his child (who by the way did nothing wrong).

There's also the story of those from the Children of israel who worshipped the golden cow, what was their penalty ? (Quran 1:55)


4- The servant of God performs a number of acts that imply knowledge of the future and terminating lives, then dissappears from the scene as mysteriously as he appears. One would expect this servant (had he been human) to have futher mention, impact or association with Moses or the events that follow in Moses life, but he dissapears from the scene and we never hear of him again.

Numerous people recieved wisdom from God and were mentionned in the Quran, God chose to give them wisdom but to keep them from the level of prophets ; Al Khidhr is one of them, there's also another character in the same Sura you copied earlier wich is Dhulqarnein (the one with the two horns) :
And they ask you about Dhulqarnain. Say: I will recite to you an account of him. Surely We established him in the land and granted him means of access to every thing. So he followed a course. Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.

God spoke to him as He spoke to Dhulkhidhr.

There's also Luqman the wise :And certainly We gave wisdom to Luqman, saying: Be grateful to Allah. And whoever is grateful, he is on!y grateful for his own soul; and whoever is ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, Praised. And when Luqman said to his son while he admonished him: O my son! do not associate aught with Allah; most surely polytheism is a grievous iniquity-- (Quran 31:13-14)

(He has a son, so he can't be an angel neither)

3rd3y3
11-15-2010, 01:06 PM
it is also pure assumption.

It is not pure assumption. Reasons for holding that belief were given later on in the article.



But it is possible that he was a human. Especially that the word "Ibed" wich is the plural of "Abd" that means slave or servant is mostly used when Allah adresses humans.

Examples.....



You have not proven that angels are not servants with your examples; you've only shown humans could be servants too.



You can search in all the Quran and you won't find a single verse where God calls the angels his servants (of course I speak of the arabic term "Abd").


Sahih International (4:172): Never would the Messiah disdain to be a servant of Allah , nor would the angels near [to Him]. And whoever disdains His worship and is arrogant - He will gather them to Himself all together.

The word used in this verse to describe both Messiah and angels as servants is 'ABDAN'.


Sahih International (43:19): And they have made the angels, who are servants of the Most Merciful, females. Did they witness their creation? Their testimony will be recorded, and they will be questioned.

The word describing the angels is ibadu (servants).


It is not ABD as you would like it, but abdan and ibadu mean the same thing.


Also early in this same Sura (verse 61) Moses calls his boy Servant, why didnt't you post the verse, because it is in contradiction with your theory ? And when Musa said to his servant : I will not cease until I reach the junction of the two rivers or I will go on for years.

Do you think that the boy was an angel too ?


If you know anything of the duties of angels, it is there duty to serve us in numerous ways. Therefore, they are our servants. You could look in the index of some Qurans and find under 'angels' what their duties are. I repeat, they are our servants. There is no contradiction in the 'theory'.

Was the boy and angel you ask, as if there is some prohibition on them assuming the appearance of a boy. If you think they cannot assume the appearance of a boy, please post the verse that backs that up.




This si wrong because there are other cases where humans can terminate a life, the most famous story is Abraham's one, when he was commanded to kill his child (who by the way did nothing wrong).



Your understanding of that verse is wrong. Allah never inspires his servants to commit evil. Here's a hint -the inspiration in that dream was not from Allah. After the dream, it is revealed that it was a test and that something else was to be done instead of killing his son.

Do you really believe it is alright to kill one's child because one had a dream that one should do it. I've had some bad dreams, and if I did what I thought I should do IRL using those dreams as a guideline, I would be a big time criminal.


There's also the story of those from the Children of israel who worshipped the golden cow, what was their penalty ? (Quran 1:55)



Quran 1:55 ?

Are you serious?

Surah Fatiha is 7 verses long (SMH)!!!!!!



Numerous people recieved wisdom from God and were mentionned in the Quran, God chose to give them wisdom but to keep them from the level of prophets ; Al Khidhr is one of them, there's also another character in the same Sura you copied earlier wich is Dhulqarnein (the one with the two horns)

Al khidr is not a prophet just because you say so WITH NO PROOF!!!


And they ask you about Dhulqarnain. Say: I will recite to you an account of him. Surely We established him in the land and granted him means of access to every thing. So he followed a course. Until when he reached the place where the sun set, he found it going down into a black sea, and found by it a people. We said: O Zulqarnain! either give them a chastisement or do them a benefit.

God spoke to him as He spoke to Dhulkhidhr.

There's also Luqman the wise :And certainly We gave wisdom to Luqman, saying: Be grateful to Allah. And whoever is grateful, he is on!y grateful for his own soul; and whoever is ungrateful, then surely Allah is Self-sufficient, Praised. And when Luqman said to his son while he admonished him: O my son! do not associate aught with Allah; most surely polytheism is a grievous iniquity-- (Quran 31:13-14)

(He has a son, so he can't be an angel neither)

You have not proven anything related to this thread with the above quote either!!!

Urban_Journalz
11-16-2010, 08:29 AM
He was an Immortal. One of many. Others have seen him and learned from him since Moses, upon whom be peace.

pro.Graveface
11-16-2010, 09:38 AM
moses from the 10 commandz?

LORD NOSE
11-16-2010, 10:03 AM
He was an Immortal.


an Immortal ?


how you figure ?

Urban_Journalz
11-16-2010, 11:32 AM
an Immortal ?


how you figure ?

I looked him up once a few years back and some say that they've had mystical contacts with this same person. Not only during meditation but in the waking world as well. These are usually people who follow a seriously spiritual path and as such, these reports have only come about in India, Indonesia and the surrounding territories.

LORD NOSE
11-16-2010, 11:40 AM
the job is immortal

not the man


someone took Jordans spot in the Bulls

he doesn't play anymore

Hellspawn
11-17-2010, 03:07 AM
moses from the 10 commandz?

Yep.

It is not pure assumption. Reasons for holding that belief were given later on in the article.

YOUR reasons, you brought nothing except your theory.


You have not proven that angels are not servants with your examples; you've only shown humans could be servants too.

Sahih International (4:172): Never would the Messiah disdain to be a servant of Allah , nor would the angels near [to Him]. And whoever disdains His worship and is arrogant - He will gather them to Himself all together.

The word used in this verse to describe both Messiah and angels as servants is 'ABDAN'.

In this case God could have said "both Messiah and angels" but instead He said "Never would the Messiah.... NOR the angels". Every verse and sentence have an exact meaning in the Quran and nothing is said randomly. In this case the differenciation is cristal clear.

Sahih International (43:19): And they have made the angels, who are servants of the Most Merciful, females. Did they witness their creation? Their testimony will be recorded, and they will be questioned.

The word describing the angels is ibadu (servants).


It is not ABD as you would like it, but abdan and ibadu mean the same thing.

If you know anything of the duties of angels, it is there duty to serve us in numerous ways. Therefore, they are our servants. You could look in the index of some Qurans and find under 'angels' what their duties are. I repeat, they are our servants. There is no contradiction in the 'theory'.

I agree on this one, but this is more to say "creations of the most merciful".

Was the boy and angel you ask, as if there is some prohibition on them assuming the appearance of a boy. If you think they cannot assume the appearance of a boy, please post the verse that backs that up.

Ok so you don't know who the boy is.

The boy is Joshua the son of Nun who became the leader of the israelites after the death of Moses.


Your understanding of that verse is wrong. Allah never inspires his servants to commit evil. Here's a hint -the inspiration in that dream was not from Allah. After the dream, it is revealed that it was a test and that something else was to be done instead of killing his son.

It was an inspiration from God not from something else.

[37:104] We called him: "O Abraham.
[37:105] "You have believed the dream." We thus reward the righteous.
[37:106] That was an exacting test indeed.

He succeded in the test inspired by God through his dream.

Do you really believe it is alright to kill one's child because one had a dream that one should do it. I've had some bad dreams, and if I did what I thought I should do IRL using those dreams as a guideline, I would be a big time criminal.

Prophet's dreams are inspiration from God I don't speak about the common mortal. I f you do so of course you'll be a big time criminal.

Quran 1:55 ?

Are you serious?

Surah Fatiha is 7 verses long (SMH)!!!!!!

Sorry (Quran 2:55)

Al khidr is not a prophet just because you say so WITH NO PROOF!!!

You have not proven anything related to this thread with the above quote either!!!

Simple analogy, some people have been granted wisdom by God without reaching the level of prophets nor beign angels.

3rd3y3
11-17-2010, 09:28 AM
In this case God could have said "both Messiah and angels" but instead He said "Never would the Messiah.... NOR the angels".


I'm not talking about what could have been said; I am talking about what was written. Unfortunately, you do not want to recognize what is written.



I agree on this one, but this is more to say "creations of the most merciful".



Even in an obvious verse such as the one you made this response to, you want to interpret it a different way to make it mean something else (smh). It does not use the word creations, it uses the word 'IBADU'!!!!



Ok so you don't know who the boy is.


Show me where the name of that boy is mentioned in the Quran to be who you say it is!



It was an inspiration from God not from something else.

[37:104] We called him: "O Abraham.
[37:105] "You have believed the dream." We thus reward the righteous.
[37:106] That was an exacting test indeed.

He succeded in the test inspired by God through his dream.



You jumped to conclusions here. It was a test, but nowhere does it say from that verse that it was inspired from God.



Prophet's dreams are inspiration from God I don't speak about the common mortal. I f you do so of course you'll be a big time criminal.


Do you wanna back up that statement from some QURAN verses?




Simple analogy, some people have been granted wisdom by God without reaching the level of prophets nor beign angels.


That is not an analogy!!!

Hellspawn
11-18-2010, 02:41 AM
Here's the full story as narrated by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) :

Moses (peace be upon him) stood up to give sermon to the people of Isra'il. He was asked as to who amongst the people has the best knowledge, whereupon he said: I have the best knowledge. Thereupon Allah was annoyed with him that he did not attribute (the best knowledge) to Him. He revealed to him: A servant amongst My servants is at the junction of two rivers who has more knowledge than yours. Moses said: How can I meet him? It was said to him: Carry a fish in the large basket and the place where you find it missing there you will find him. Thereupon Moses proceeded forth along with a young man (Yusha'). Joshua b. Nan and Moses (peace be upon him) put the fish in the basket and there went along with him the young man (Yusha') until they came to a certain rock and Moses and his companion went to sleep and the fish stirred in that basket and fell into the ocean and Allah stopped the current of water like a vault until the way was made for the fish. Moses and his young companion were astonished and they walked for the rest of the day and the night and the friend of Moses forgot to inform him of this incident. When it was morning, Moses (peace be upon him) said to the young man: Bring for us the breakfast for we are dead tired because of this journey, and they did not feel exhausted until they had passed that place where they had been commanded (to stay). He said: Don't you know that when we reached the Sakhra (rock) I forgot the fisii and noth ng made me forget it but the satan that I. could nit remember it? How strange is it that the fish found a way in the river? Moses said: That was what we had been aiming at. Then both of them retraced their steps until they reached Sakhra; there they saw a man covered with a cloth. Moses greeted him. Khadir said to him: Where is as-Salam in our country.? He said: I am Moses, whereupon he (Khadir) said: You mean the Moses of Bani Isra'il? He said: Yes. He (Khadir) said: You have a knowledge out of the knowledge of Allah which in fact Allah imparted to you and about that I know nothing and I have knowledge out of Allah's knowledge which He imparted to me and about that you do not know. Moses (peace be upon him) said to him: May I follow you so that you may teach me that with which you have been taught righteousness. He said: You will not be able to bear with me; how you will be able to bear that about which you do not know? Moses said: Thou wilt find me patient, nor shalt I disobey you in aught. Khadir said to him: If you were to follow me, then do not ask me about anything until I myself speak to you about it. He said: Yes. So Khadir and Moses set forth on the bank of the river that there came before them a boat. Both of theni talked to them (the owners of the boat) so that they might carry both of them.

They had recognised Khadir and they carried them free. Khadir thereupon took hold of a plank in the boat and broke it away. Moses said: These people have carried us without any charge and you attempt to break their boat so that the people sailing in the boat may drown. This is (something) grievous that you have done. He said: Did I not say that you would not bear with me? He said: Blame me not for what I forgot and be not hard upon what I did. Then both of them got down from the boat and began to walk along the coastline that they saw a boy who had been playing with other boys. Khadir pulled up his head and killed him. Moses said: Have you killed an innocent person who is in no way guilty of slaying another? You have done something horrible. Thereupon he said: Did I not say to you that you will not be able to bear with me? He (Moses) said: This (act) is more grievous than the first one. He (Moses) further said. If I ask you about anything after this, keep not company with me, then you would no doubt find (a plausible) excuse for this. Then they both walked on until they reached the inhabitants of a village. They asked its inhabitants for food but they refused to entertain them as their guests. They found in it a wall which had been bent on one side and was about to fall. Khadir set it right with his own hand. Moses, said to him: It is the people to whom we came but they showed us no hospitality and they did not serve us food. If you wish you can get wages for it. He (Khadir) said: This is the parting of ways between mt and you. Now I wish to reveal to you the significance of that for which you could not bear with me. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said. May Allah have mercy upon Moses! I wish if Moses could show patience and a (fuller) story of both of them could have been told. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said that the first thing which Moses said was out of forgetfulness. Then there came a sparrow until it perched on the wall of the boat and took water from the ocean. Thereupon, Khadir said: My knowledge and your knowledge in comparison with the knowledge of Allah is even less than the water taken by the sparrow in its beak in comparison to the water of the ocean, and Sa'id b. jubair used to recite (verses 79 and 80 of Sura Kahf) in this way: There was before them a king who used to seize every boat by force which was in order, the boy was an unbeliever.


Remember that what the prophet says is inspiration from God :


As the stars fell away.
Your companion (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived.
Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
It was divine inspiration.
Dictated by the Most Powerful.
Possessor of all authority. From His highest height. (Quran 53 1-5)



O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle, and do not make your deeds of no effect.(Quran 47:34)


Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them. (Quran 4:81)



Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. (Quran 3:33)

3rd3y3
11-18-2010, 10:59 AM
Here's the full story as narrated by the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

This is redundant, because it has already been posted in another older thread. It was also posted here, although a few verses missing from the beginning, but the focus was not on the story itself, it was on uncovering who the teacher was.

Remember that what the prophet says is inspiration from God :


As the stars fell away.
Your companion (Muhammad) was not astray, nor was he deceived.
Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
It was divine inspiration.
Dictated by the Most Powerful.
Possessor of all authority. From His highest height. (Quran 53 1-5)


This verse is about how MUHAMMAD was inspired to reveal the book, not about dreams. You are confusing ideas here.


O you who believe! obey Allah and obey the Apostle, and do not make your deeds of no effect.(Quran 47:34)


Whoever obeys the Apostle, he indeed obeys Allah, and whoever turns back, so We have not sent you as a keeper over them. (Quran 4:81)



Say: Obey Allah and the Apostle; but if they turn back, then surely Allah does not love the unbelievers. (Quran 3:33)

Ok, but what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

Hellspawn
11-18-2010, 01:55 PM
This is redundant, because it has already been posted in another older thread. It was also posted here, although a few verses missing from the beginning, but the focus was not on the story itself, it was on uncovering who the teacher was.

You wanted to know where do the name Al Khidhr came from.


This verse is about how MUHAMMAD was inspired to reveal the book, not about dreams. You are confusing ideas here.

Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.
It was divine inspiration.

Every speaking by the prophet that concern a religious act or idea is an inspiration from God. So if Muhammad has tough this story to his companions, he didn't invent it, it was revealed to him. Do you think Muhammad the ameen (the trustworthy) to whom have been assigned the mission to transmit the Quran would create/invent stories from his own imagination?

Ok, but what does this have to do with the topic of this thread?

Islam sources are the Quran (Obey Allah) AND the sunna (and the Apostle) contrary to what you seem to think.

3rd3y3
11-18-2010, 08:21 PM
You wanted to know where do the name Al Khidhr came from..

You lie. You're losing the argument so you are starting to make up stuff.



Nor was he speaking out of a personal desire.[/B]
It was divine inspiration.

Every speaking by the prophet that concern a religious act or idea is an inspiration from God. So if Muhammad has tough this story to his companions, he didn't invent it, it was revealed to him. Do you think Muhammad the ameen (the trustworthy) to whom have been assigned the mission to transmit the Quran would create/invent stories from his own imagination?


You use this as a diversion. I was talking about the dream of Abraham, then you start talking about inspiration of Muhammed - you've switched the subject.


Islam sources are the Quran (Obey Allah) AND the sunna (and the Apostle) contrary to what you seem to think.

Delusion.

Hellspawn
11-19-2010, 02:48 AM
You lie. You're losing the argument so you are starting to make up stuff.



[COLOR=#008000]

You use this as a diversion. I was talking about the dream of Abraham, then you start talking about inspiration of Muhammed - you've switched the subject.




Delusion.

Very relevant responses :)