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3rd3y3
11-20-2010, 06:48 PM
In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths, we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:




In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the ‘Straight Path’ (6:151-153) for example, Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books…
In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war…

In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...

In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants...

In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man’s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut’a)...

In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a certain period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification...

In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...

In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...

In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 18:29; 10:99, 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...
In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...

In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards...

In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...

In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time…

In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...

In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...

In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur'an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.


Therefore, the clearest difference is that Islam is a monotheistic, clear, consistent, dynamic, progressive, balanced system...a system that eliminates conjectures, hearsay, fairy tales and contradictions...therefore it eliminates hardship, confusion, chaos, and division. It is a system which puts more accent on the usage of intellect, reason, pondering over God, His Creation, meaning of life, pondering over everything...While the sects represent superstition, unfair treatment for non-cult members, inequality of the sexes, oppression of human rights, inability to contribute to human progress, amputations or physical violence, regression of ideas and thoughts to primitive levels of barbarism, and most importantly setting-up partners with the One True God and thus promoting polytheism.


GOD ALONE

For the Sunnis and Shia who are shocked by the words they have been reading, we invite you to seek God Alone with your heart and your mind and to give-up all the previous wasted years of idolatry and polytheism that you have unknowingly been party to...For our Lord tells us that it is never too late to seek His forgiveness:


"Say: 'O My servants who transgressed against themselves, do not despair of God's mercy. For God forgives all sins. He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.'" (Qur'an 39:53)


But be warned, while only God knows the fate of an individual, by simply turning away without verifying what has been said here can bring the gravest of consequences:


"And who is more wicked than one who is reminded of his Lord’s verses but he turned away from them, and he forgot what his hands had done. We have made veils upon their hearts from understanding them, and a deafness in their ears. And if you invite them to the guidance, they will never be guided." (Qur'an 18:57)


NOW ASK YOURSELF: WILL GOD ALONE BE ENOUGH FOR YOU?

"And when God Alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned beside Him, they rejoice!" (Qur'an 39:45)



WHY IS ISLAM FOR ME?

This is what it all boils down to, a "what's in it for me" outlook that is very human and very natural...Well, the answers that may sway you to 'God Alone' and let you abandon your current faith, whatever the costs may be, are as follows...


"And if the town’s people had only believed and been aware, then We would have opened for them blessings from the sky and the land; but they denied, so We took them for what they used to earn." (7:96)


Islam guarantees victory (30:47, 22:38-39, 47-7).

Islam guarantees prosperity and abundance (7:96) , (41:30-31).

Islam guarantees maximum freedom for the people - freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom to travel, and freedom of economy (2:256, 88:21-22, 10:99).

Islam guarantees human rights for all the people, regardless of their race, color, creed, social status, financial situation, or political affiliation (5:8, 49:13).

Islam guarantees a political system that is based on consultation and the freedom for open expression (42:38).

Islam guarantees a society that upholds and maintains the highest standards of moral behavior.
Islam guarantees a maximum regard for people's lives and properties.

Islam guarantees prevalence of love, courtesy, peace, and mutual respect among the people, and with other world communities (3:110, 60:8-9).

Islam guarantees environmental protection as a result of deterring pollution through conservation and prohibition of wasteful practices (30:41).

If you are convinced that a dignified, prosperous, righteous, logical, and practical way of life is your desire, then Islam is for you. You can begin to change your life immediately by putting-aside all that you have been raised to believe in and objectively taking a fresh-start by reading-up on the topics we discussed and many more in the words of God in His Book, and discover for yourself with no prejudice or interference.



"That is because God was not to change anything He bestowed to a people, unless they change what is in themselves. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable." (Qur'an 8:53)



"GOD ALONE"
SAY NO TO ANYTHING ELSE

3rd3y3
11-20-2010, 06:59 PM
The first emoticon -( ten : ninety-nine)
2nd, 3rd - (seven : ninety-six)
4rth - (ten : ninty-nine)

TheBoarzHeadBoy
11-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Green Rant

Islam is like Christianity. Jesus made a lot of sense. The Old testament makes some sense. (They don't really make sense together.)

But you talk to Catholics and Orthodox and they have all this esoteric BS and tradition that has no basis in anything biblical. It actually really distorts one's understanding of the bible.

You talk to Protestants and they're even more off base because while they managed to cut out a lot of the crap the Catholics and Orthodox added in they cut out a lot of the good bits of the tradition and now have neutered themselves and have missed the point of it.

Mohammad seems (depending on the account of course) like a pretty reasonable guy. Noble King type. A heroic figure. But you add in the additional cult religious aspects of it from Sunni or Shia sects and you're entering the same problems the Catholics and Orthodox have. Then on top of that you have all these "fundamentalist" divergent sub groups who have totally fucked it up. There's nothing "fundamental" about them. They like every over zealous reactionary movement are so far off the beaten path they don't even know they're on the wrong road.

spiggity_ace
11-21-2010, 12:27 AM
nice post

Hellspawn
11-22-2010, 08:44 AM
I'll speak from a sunni point of view strictly because shiia aint muslims check my other thread (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94890&highlight=shiia)

In comparing the teachings of Islam as derived from the Book of God to the practices taught and enforced by the popular Sunni and Shia faiths, we find that the list is quite extensive, with some of the highlights as follows:




In Islam, the requirement to be a Muslim is to simply accept and live according to the ‘Straight Path’ (6:151-153) for example, Vs. the Sunni or Shia 5-pillars which come from unauthorized books…


Unauthorized books you said ?

1. Muslim profession of faith or shahada.
Worship God! You have no other god but Him. (Quran 7:59, 7:73; 11:50, 11:84; 23:32)


2. Ritual Prayer or salah.
Attend constantly to prayers and to the middle prayer and stand up truly obedient to Allah. (Quran 2:239)

And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down. (Quran 2:44)

Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them. (Quran 2:4)

And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with Allah; surely Allah sees what you do. (Quran 2:111)


3. Obligatory Charity or zakah.
And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and bow down with those who bow down. (Quran 2:44)

Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them. (Quran 2:4)

And keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate and whatever good you send before for yourselves, you shall find it with Allah; surely Allah sees what you do. (Quran 2:111)


4. Fasting or sawm.
O you who believe, fasting is prescribed for you as it was prescribed for those before you, that you may develop God-consciousness. (Quran 2:183)

The month of Ramazan is that in which the Quran was revealed, a guidance to men and clear proofs of the guidance and the distinction; therefore whoever of you is present in the month, he shall fast therein, and whoever is sick or upon a journey, then (he shall fast) a (like) number of other days; Allah desires ease for you, and He does not desire for you difficulty, and (He desires) that you should complete the number and that you should exalt the greatness of Allah for His having guided you and that you may give thanks. (Quran 2:186)


5. Pilgrimage or hajj.
And accomplish the pilgrimage and the visit for Allah, but if, you are prevented, (send) whatever offering is easy to obtain, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination; but whoever among you is sick or has an ailment of the head, he (should effect) a compensation by fasting or alms or sacrificing, then when you are secure, whoever profits by combining the visit with the pilgrimage (should take) what offering is easy to obtain; but he who cannot find (any offering) should fast for three days during the pilgrimage and for seven days when you return; these (make) ten (days) complete; this is for him whose family is not present in the Sacred Mosque, and be careful (of your duty) to Allah, and know that Allah is severe in requiting (evil). (quran 2:197)

The pilgrimage is (performed in) the well-known months; so whoever determines the performance of the pilgrimage therein, there shall be no intercourse nor fornication nor quarrelling amongst one another; and whatever good you do, Allah knows it; and make provision, for surely the provision is the guarding of oneself, and be careful (of your duty) to Me, O men of understanding. (Quran 2:198)




In Islam, abolishing Slavery is taught to be an act of righteousness (90:12-13), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which encourages slavery under war…

Source ?


In Islam, women are never forbidden from praying or fasting during Menstruation (2:222), nor is there a specific dress code (i.e. the Headscarf) imposed on them beyond modesty, Vs. the Sunni and Shia which teach the undermining of women and forcing them to cover their hair and avoid praying or fasting at certain times...

Forcing them ? :)
It is an act of ease, it is permitted to women not to fast or pray when they have their menstruations.

it is the same for men after having sexual intercourse, you can't pray or fast with sperm, mucus or blood on your genital. While for the first two, once you clean yourself you can perform prayers, it is impossible to keep blood from flowing during menstruations.

In this case women are not obligated to catch up with these prayers or days of fasting while men must.

Headscarf : And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts and do not display their ornaments except what appears thereof, and let them wear their head-coverings over their bosoms, and not display their ornaments except to their husbands or their fathers,... (Quran 24:32)

In Islam, a man or women may leave a Will, after settlement of debt (4:12), Vs. Sunnis who refuse to accept wills if there are any direct descendants...

Source ?


In Islam, Monogamy is the basis for normal relationships, while polygamy is only allowed in cases involving marrying the mothers of orphans under the man’s guardianship (4:3), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (Mut’a)...

Islam did not legalised polygamy, it only came to restrict it to 4 women max and in the frame of marriage. Men have always been polygamous since the beginning of the creation and untill a few years before Islam people were allowed to marry as much women as they want and I dont speak for Arabia only, European and people in all ancient civilisations (Greece, Rome etc...) were polygamous.

Researches proved that only 2% of muslims practice polygamy.


In Islam, Divorce is enforceable only after a certain period, and it may be made nullified if the couple reconcile before the end of this period (65:1, 65:4), Vs. Sunni teachings that destroy families by allowing a divorce to occur on the spot with no waiting period and no nullification...

Sources ?

Islam is not against science, we can now know certainly if a woman is pregnant or no by making a simple test so we can bypass the rule of the three months.

Theres no sunni teachings that encourage divorce and islamic countries are those amongst wich the divorce rate is the lowest (USA 49%).

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate


In Islam, Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to return that which is stolen (12:76), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings which brutally amputate the hands causing disability...


And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise. (Quran 5:39)


In Islam, no one is allowed to be killed or Stoned for adultery (24:2), Vs. Sunni and Shia laws of stoning married adulterers to death...

Already discussed in another thread.


In Islam, absolute Freedom of Faith is allowed (2:256, 18:29; 10:99, 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...

disbeliever =/= apostate


In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...

Pffffffff !


In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensives (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standards...

This is my favorite :) who goes on war against muslims now?


In Islam, Pilgrimage is a centre for gathering of nations and for all to witness the benefits of being together (22:27-28), Vs. Sunni and Shia bringing in polytheistic rituals and superstition (touching of black stone, circling 7 times, etc..)...

The Hajj is clearely stated in the Quran and especially the circling that you claim beign a superstition :
“And when We assigned for Abraham the place of the House, saying ‘Do not associate Anything with Me, and purify My House for those who go around it and for those who stand and bow and prostrate themselves in worship. And proclaim the Pilgrimage among humankind: They will come to you on foot and on every camel made lean By traveling deep, distant ravines.’” (Quran 22:26-27)

The Holy Kaaba is the house of God as it is said in the Quran : Allah has made the Kaaba, the sacred house, a maintenance for the people, and the sacred month and the offerings and the sacrificial animals with garlands; this is that you may know that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and that Allah is the Knower of all things. (Quran 5:98)

So according to you (who believe in the words of the Quran) ; those who go around the Holy Kaaba wich is the sacred house, the [My] House (of god) as commanded in the Quran are superstitious ?

7 as the layers of the sky
7 as the scales in music
7 as the necessary months to the foetus to become a viable baby
7 as the types of stars classified by luminosity
7 as the days of the week
7 as the periods of the periodic table




In Islam, a Year is a luni-solar count made of 365-days (17:12, 9:36), with all the seasons fitting-in-place Vs. Sunnis teaching it to be a lunar one based on 354 days which creates confusion of seasons and time…

???? you trippin right here.
Anyone is free to use the count that fits him best.
Maybe you get confused but this is very clear for those who use it.

Next argument will be "why don't Sunni celebrate Halloween?" ?

"Ramadan is the month during which the Quran was revealed, providing guidance for the people, clear teachings, and the statute book. Those of you who witness this month shall fast therein." (Quran 2:186)

Why do you need to witness the month if it's already decided ? Clearly, it's by witnessing the first moon so the moon decide the months.



In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...

Circumcision for males have been proven to highly reduces the risk of sexual ilnesses, this is even not a subject to discuss atheists get circumcised nowerdays.


In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful(7:32-33, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...

I know the hadeeth is not a reliable source for you but gold and silk are forbidden by a hadeeth.


In Islam, rule of Government is under the constitution of the Qur'an through consultation and free-speech (5:48, 42:38). Vs. Sunni teachings which allow the rise of dictators or monarchs, and Shia teachings which uphold self-appointed religious leaders based on genealogy.

Do you think muslims are happy with it ?

Do you still think Saudi are a reference when it comes to Islam ? they're not.

You also better stop thinking they are perfect example of muslims, islam aint a vaccine for stupidity, if you are stupid you'll be a stupid muslim and if you are wise you'll be a wise muslim.

Hellspawn
11-22-2010, 08:48 AM
Islam guarantees victory (30:47, 22:38-39, 47-7).
Islam guarantees prosperity and abundance (7:96) , (41:30-31).
Islam guarantees maximum freedom for the people - freedom of religion, freedom of expression, freedom to travel, and freedom of economy (2:256, 88:21-22, 10:99).
Islam guarantees human rights for all the people, regardless of their race, color, creed, social status, financial situation, or political affiliation (5:8, 49:13).
Islam guarantees a political system that is based on consultation and the freedom for open expression (42:38).
Islam guarantees a society that upholds and maintains the highest standards of moral behavior.
Islam guarantees a maximum regard for people's lives and properties.
Islam guarantees prevalence of love, courtesy, peace, and mutual respect among the people, and with other world communities (3:110, 60:8-9).
Islam guarantees environmental protection as a result of deterring pollution through conservation and prohibition of wasteful practices (30:41).



Co-sign !

When applied perfectly it sure does.

3rd3y3
11-24-2010, 12:30 PM
Yes.

Look at that first line - "Islaam guarantees victory".

Are the people who consider themselves Muslim in countries that are fighting against 'the west' victorious?

If they were true, they would be.

Take a look at any CIA factbook or book that has data on countries and their worldwide standing. Are they prosperous?

Most of the countries that are in poverty or lack human rights/freedom are so-called 'Muslim' countries.

etc.

Are they practicing true Islaam?

Hellspawn
11-25-2010, 04:03 AM
Yes.

Look at that first line - "Islaam guarantees victory".

Are the people who consider themselves Muslim in countries that are fighting against 'the west' victorious?

If they were true, they would be.

Take a look at any CIA factbook or book that has data on countries and their worldwide standing. Are they prosperous?

Most of the countries that are in poverty or lack human rights/freedom are so-called 'Muslim' countries.

etc.

Are they practicing true Islaam?

You are very correct on this, if these countries were applying Islam as they should they'll be victorious and prosperous but they arent. I live in a muslim country but more than half people I know don't practice salaat (only occasionnaly during Ramadan and so), they don't give the poor-rate (there's a research that made a conclusion wich is if people in Saudi arabia give their poor-rate correctly poverty will disappear from the world, they'll feed all Africa countries and more every year).




You did not answered the first post, do we agree on :

-the 5 pillars are from the quran ?

-women are allowed to not pray and fast during menstruations ?

-polygamy aint a attribute of Islam alone ?

-divorce rate in muslim countries is not the highest at all ?

-muslims are not the one who attack those who dont have the same believe as them ?

-thives get their hands cut off is a law from the Quran ?


I suspect that you dont really believe what you typed but it was more a copy/paste from an anti-islam site, arent you ?

TheBoarzHeadBoy
11-25-2010, 10:36 AM
Yes.

Look at that first line - "Islaam guarantees victory".

Are the people who consider themselves Muslim in countries that are fighting against 'the west' victorious?

If they were true, they would be.

Take a look at any CIA factbook or book that has data on countries and their worldwide standing. Are they prosperous?

Most of the countries that are in poverty or lack human rights/freedom are so-called 'Muslim' countries.

etc.

Are they practicing true Islaam?

I think the point is Ali was undefeated in battle and that Islamic nations have always won defensive wars. Look, the only people who really got the Muslims good have been Jews, and we all know Jews are a little higher on God's totem pole of people to help. (Sorry Palestine God loves the Ashkenazim more then you.)

The way I see it is that religion for all intents and purposes is a control tool. Currently I think Islam will have the best chance of becoming the faith of theists the world over. But in order to do that Islam will need to return to some sort of orthodoxy. There are a number of Muslims sects and as long as these sects go unchallenged you end up with a world where everyone claims to be Muslim and practices their own thing and calls it Islam. This is what happened to Christianity. Christ if we can take his teachings as his own was a frikking genius in terms of social conduct. However there are almost no Christians in the world today because they got caught up in the power of religion and religion is a path to hypocritical practices and apostasy.

Islam might be able to return people to some sort of value system, but if it goes the way of Christianity it will mean nothing. As an atheist even I can see the usefulness of beliefs and ideology for the force of doing good. If Islam is to inherit the earth it must do the following:

Have bloodless victory.

Promote a Free Market.

Protect the Freedoms of the European Enlightenment. ie. It may condemn speech but it may not suppress or act against it. I believe that fighting words with words is the only way to ensure a free society. Basically Islam must defend the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution and the principles of the Declaration of Independence.

Promote enlightened civil practices and legal codes as well as moving beyond the corporal and capital punishments it has used due to the culture.

Basically if Islam can become the vehicle of reintroducing classical liberal enlightenment with a turn towards deism (Islam is practically Deist anyhow) Islam will prosper. I'm not just saying that because of some sort of Eurocentrism, I see those elements in the more fundamental aspects of Islam and they, not the Arab culture are what need to bring the world together. There clearly is some philosophy that is superior to others. Islamic philosophy was superior to the Greeks because it built off of it and expanded on it, the Enlightenment likewise was superior to the Greeks because it built off of it and expanded on it. The two advancements came to similar conclusions. So that's the path.

The Tao of Peace

3rd3y3
11-25-2010, 01:03 PM
You did not answered the first post, do we agree on :

-the 5 pillars are from the quran ?


Well, there are some intricacies that seem to not be acknowledged when it comes to what is the foundation of Islaam. The words hajj, ramadhan, sawm, kabba, etc. seem to have different meaning to different people.





-women are allowed to not pray and fast during menstruations ?

Is this from the Quran?


-polygamy aint a attribute of Islam alone ?

True, but the subject is Islaam here.


-divorce rate in muslim countries is not the highest at all ?

True.


-muslims are not the one who attack those who dont have the same believe as them ?

What do you mean?


-thives get their hands cut off is a law from the Quran ??

http://free-minds.org/theft



I suspect that you dont really believe what you typed but it was more a copy/paste from an anti-islam site, arent you ?

I believe. It was not from an anti-islaam site. It is from an Islaam site based on Quran Alone.

Hellspawn
11-25-2010, 05:29 PM
Well, there are some intricacies that seem to not be acknowledged when it comes to what is the foundation of Islaam. The words hajj, ramadhan, sawm, kabba, etc. seem to have different meaning to different people.

no they don't.

Is this from the Quran?

it's common sens, it's a mercy from god indeed. Medecine proved that women loose iron during menstruations so their body is weak so it's dangerous for them to fast and difficlt to them to pray.

What do you mean?

other religions are attackin those who are not from the same religion.


http://free-minds.org/theft

i prefear your explanation not a link, i can post links too.


I believe. It was not from an anti-islaam site. It is from an Islaam site based on Quran Alone.

theres no such a thing.

And the same did Ibrahim enjoin on his sons and (so did) Yaqoub. O my sons! surely Allah has chosen for you (this) faith, therefore die not unless you are Muslims. (2:133)

yaqub and his sons did not have quran but they were muslim

Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists. (3:68)

abraham did not have quran but he was muslim