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Fatal Guillotine
11-26-2010, 07:22 PM
I'm not talking about 'right vs. wrong'. I'm speaking on the ultimate expression of the concept of evil. Anything and everything can be justified, but where do we draw the line.....and is there one?

I can go through the 'Net and find various definitions on the subject, but is evil a personal thing, or Universal to a society/community?



i think it may have to do with ethics

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 07:37 PM
every one thinks there right/good how ever i do no one thing that every one thinks is wrong/evil ME yep even i agree
because i have one firm aspect on reality and thats this morality is evil morality leads to hate the belief that your right leads to the belief that others are wrong witch leads to this

http://www.subvertednation.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/armenian_genocide_22.jpg

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 07:38 PM
have a moralist day sr

Fatal Guillotine
11-26-2010, 07:38 PM
ethics, one of the longest argued disciplines of philosophy.

Morals are subjective, and in turn, is where the problems lay. There are no universal ethics, only ethics shaped by time, experience and unification of like-minded individuals. For example, in Yemen, society sees fit to marry off a pre-pubescent girl and most of the population does not object. In modern Western Civilization we have come to learn about the reproduction system and child development, and in turn, our new ethics arose from education.

As for killing, harming or abusing children: Protection of the young is found in many different species of animal. Our intelligence simply allows us to give reason to the biological necessity of preservation of the future of a species, but even nature falls to nurture/environment some times. The Spartans thought perfectly well to kill deformed or sick children so as to purify their ranks. They did it because they saw it as a way to ENHANCE the progress of human beings

Fatal Guillotine
11-26-2010, 07:39 PM
Ethics are indeed subjective however this does not have to be such a micro issue to the point that your neighbor has a totally different set of ethics from the next. However, obviously in Mayan society for example, human sacrifice was seen as ok and not evil while in western society is the ultimate crime. In that case, yes its relative, however what people with certain agendas want to take away from that is apply it to slippery slope logic "Well if its subjective then I can make my own morals and consider my own evil vs good". It's not that simple.

We get our idea of good and evil based on what is beneficial for our particular society and that is more macro. We can based this off of philosophical arguments for one way or another and then that is when we institute a centralized institution to implement it (government, religion, communities, etc) and in a way its the institutions job to make sure that the consensus on a moral issue is enforced.

Human beings in their natural state aren't bloodthirsty savages even though we can be pretty cruel at times. Brutality however is not anymore innate to human biology as is empathy, sympathy, caring, loving and all the other positive emotional traits humans possess. For example murder. We not only argue against murder on philosophical grounds (the idea of allowing people their own individual liberty and not infringing on it, do unto others as you want unto yourself) however we also incorporate human emotions to it. We feel empathy for the fact that someone had their life taken from them or that someone else lost a loved one and imagine how it must feel for them. After we go through this whole process that is when we start to build a table of "evil vs good" after we go through a reasoning process like above.

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 07:44 PM
Ethics are indeed subjective however this does not have to be such a micro issue to the point that your neighbor has a totally different set of ethics from the next. However, obviously in Mayan society for example, human sacrifice was seen as ok and not evil while in western society is the ultimate crime. In that case, yes its relative, however what people with certain agendas want to take away from that is apply it to slippery slope logic "Well if its subjective then I can make my own morals and consider my own evil vs good". It's not that simple.

We get our idea of good and evil based on what is beneficial for our particular society and that is more macro. We can based this off of philosophical arguments for one way or another and then that is when we institute a centralized institution to implement it (government, religion, communities, etc) and in a way its the institutions job to make sure that the consensus on a moral issue is enforced.

Human beings in their natural state aren't bloodthirsty savages even though we can be pretty cruel at times. Brutality however is not anymore innate to human biology as is empathy, sympathy, caring, loving and all the other positive emotional traits humans possess. For example murder. We not only argue against murder on philosophical grounds (the idea of allowing people their own individual liberty and not infringing on it, do unto others as you want unto yourself) however we also incorporate human emotions to it. We feel empathy for the fact that someone had their life taken from them or that someone else lost a loved one and imagine how it must feel for them. After we go through this whole process that is when we start to build a table of "evil vs good" after we go through a reasoning process like above.

on the serious though i got to agree with this shit stain
whatever helps you survive in your area your culture decides right and wrong

weather it infanticide do to overpopulation

or the protestant work ethic do to overly fertile lands

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 07:47 PM
hay Allah you study cultural anthro as well don't you how many years you in for you done your field work yet

Fatal Guillotine
11-26-2010, 07:53 PM
hay Allah you study cultural anthro as well don't you how many years you in for you done your field work yet

dont study
just try to be a well read person

ethics and moral go hand and hand

if you know about Confucianism you'll learn about filial piety and conduct.

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 08:00 PM
well you should consider it the time i spent in the amazon changed my life

and after your classes you will find out that ethics is a product of morality witch is a product of social norms

Fatal Guillotine
11-26-2010, 08:04 PM
well you should consider it the time i spent in the amazon changed my life

and after your classes you will find out that ethics is a product of morality witch is a product of social norms

interesting

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 08:14 PM
since your in heaven on earth i took the liberty of finding this for you

Happy Camp, Ca to HSU
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=happy+camp+Ca&um=1&biw=1152&bih=773&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=vl

try college of the redwoods if you cant afford the university

Dokuro
11-26-2010, 11:25 PM
behold the face of true evil reviled

http://voreblog.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/evil-squirrel.jpg?w=221&h=280
http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0906/evil-squirrel-evil-squirrel-behind-demotivational-poster-1244041207.jpg
http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx43/DancingTwinkies/funny-pictures-evil-black-squirrel.jpg
http://www.funnyphotos.net.au/images/squirrel-drinking-beer-budweiser-through-a-straw.jpg


but have no fear we have been protecting you for years
look this squirrel was trying to plant a atomic-bomb in this bird bath
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n9d7UuYaURQ/Roj-cJXZKWI/AAAAAAAAAYU/j3EbwtQ4RTo/s320/Encounter1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_n9d7UuYaURQ/Roj-cJXZKXI/AAAAAAAAAYc/UZfeccxz3F8/s320/Encounter2.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n9d7UuYaURQ/Roj-cZXZKYI/AAAAAAAAAYk/dcQWAMiCSuQ/s320/Encounter3.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n9d7UuYaURQ/Roj-cZXZKZI/AAAAAAAAAYs/M31NhbNDQkk/s320/Encounter4.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n9d7UuYaURQ/Roj-cpXZKaI/AAAAAAAAAY0/8aLMAO0PFAw/s320/Encounter5.jpg


no need to thank us just doing are job

Uncle Steezo
11-27-2010, 06:00 AM
inflicting unwanted pain for your own pleasure is evil.
rape is evil.
sexual abuse is evil.
rage is evil.
greed is evil.
wanton destruction of nature is evil.


light is inherently good. all is light.
the inhibition of light is evil.
light is information. all is light.
the inhibition of information is evil.




IDI Amin is gonna get dane banned....

Dokuro
11-27-2010, 03:43 PM
inflicting unwanted pain for your own pleasure is evil.
rape is evil.
sexual abuse is evil.
rage is evil.
greed is evil.
wanton destruction of nature is evil.


light is inherently good. all is light.
the inhibition of light is evil.
light is information. all is light.
the inhibition of information is evil.




IDI Amin is gonna get dane banned....

greed is evil pfff ya right


according to Christians freethinkers are evil they guided by knowledge is information...... so information is evil? thats rhetorical don't answer you'll look like a dumbass



and it wouldn't be the first time some one tried to ban

Fatal Guillotine
11-27-2010, 03:52 PM
The idea of evil is a human construct and there is no universal objective absolute about it. The best we can do is for some people to claim that its divinely determined yet even that has shown itself to be subject to change due to certain agendas or motives ( sorry didn't want to be the one to play religion card but its applicable I think) So yes while its not perfect, the best we can do is use a consensus based decision making process.

The thing is though while we might be able to discuss the counter points to that on a philosophical level, but realistically on quite a few things you'll rarely find anyone who falls outside the consensus in the SAME society. For example, you'll rarely find someone in the united states say child murder is ok. I would say there is a 99% consensus on that because we all realize the negative effects despite our own individual ideologies.

So to that end, yes an individual can possess an moral perspective outside of the consensus (for example at one time being against slavery) and its benefits can be seen later on or it can be changed. This is a byproduct if the imperfectness of our society and to be honest there is no way to permanently fix it and its unfortunate but this is used to fuel brutality in some instances however we don't really have anything much better that can last for eternity. However for example with the slavery example, I don't know anyone who called abolitionists evil necessarily except the worst of demagogues.

Folks want the perfect fix and sometimes you just have to concede that we can't fix everything to be exactly the way we want it. This is one of those things. Never going to be fixed.














Morality is purely a social phenomenon and manifests in higher order organisms. If we were inherently solitary creatures, our morality would exist around the paradigm of our individual mortality. Survival is ultimately the highest good.

Dokuro
11-27-2010, 04:05 PM
are you sure you don't study cultural anthro because this is out of one of my text books nearly the exact wording


Morality is purely a social phenomenon and manifests in higher order organisms. If we were inherently solitary creatures, our morality would exist around the paradigm of our individual mortality. Survival is ultimately the highest good.

Fatal Guillotine
11-27-2010, 04:08 PM
i read a couple of books mostly on social contract

but that quote stand out to me

if you can understand morality you understand a 4th (at least what i consider to be a 4th) of what Confucianism is.

Uncle Steezo
11-27-2010, 06:40 PM
no man is an island unto himself. so the hypothetical self morality is a exercise in futility.

i re-posit

"inflicting unwanted pain for your own pleasure is evil.
rape is evil.
sexual abuse is evil.
rage is evil.
greed is evil.
wanton destruction of nature is evil."


absolutely

Frank Sobotka
11-27-2010, 06:51 PM
Is it just me or is everything posted here implied?

LORD NOSE
11-27-2010, 07:53 PM
What is Evil?

whatever the person who's saying it says it is at that time

Dokuro
11-27-2010, 09:32 PM
no man is an island unto himself. so the hypothetical self morality is a exercise in futility.

i re-posit

"inflicting unwanted pain for your own pleasure is evil.
rape is evil.
sexual abuse is evil.
rage is evil.
greed is evil.
wanton destruction of nature is evil."


absolutely

and ill say to this again remove rage and greed

all that is natural is good

rage helps you survive if you another man/beast attacks you how can you defend your self wile only thinking and never acting on instincts that lead to the emotion rage it allows you to distance your self from thought and only nature takes over no fear no hate no thought other then to survive is left


if it wasn't for rage we would be living in the united states of Japan and they would be going to war with Germany right know

rage is good rage is natural

greed, fuels progress, progress is survival

TheBoarzHeadBoy
11-28-2010, 12:23 AM
Morals are primarily concerned with harmony and the benefit of all parties.

For something to be moral it must have an outcome that causes no harm. Immorality is the intentional cause of harm.

For example: Its immoral to kill people without their consent. However its moral to kill someone to lessen their suffering if they consent. The most moral choice however is to end suffering without the loss of life.

pro.Graveface
11-28-2010, 04:43 AM
What the mind makes of it!

Fatal Guillotine
12-02-2010, 12:48 PM
whatever the person who's saying it says it is at that time

has alot to do with characteristics as well.

Dokuro
12-03-2010, 04:47 PM
"Demiurge"

if you don't know then you don't know but i'm not allowed to teach you about it

further info would violate my contract with God/Allah/Yahweh

ha bitch i found a loop hole

Dokuro
12-03-2010, 05:15 PM
Morals are primarily concerned with harmony and the benefit of all parties.

For something to be moral it must have an outcome that causes no harm. Immorality is the intentional cause of harm.

For example: Its immoral to kill people without their consent. However its moral to kill someone to lessen their suffering if they consent. The most moral choice however is to end suffering without the loss of life.

Christians believe homosexuality is immoral however more damage occurs when those filling are oppressed then when out in the open

Sense-A
12-03-2010, 06:16 PM
Evil is the opposite of Love. It is hatred and pain and intentional harm.There is a constant battle between heaven and hell. Those who came thousands of years before us have told the story time and time again. Yet there are those who still do not believe that the forces of good and evil are at work everyday. There exists evil spirits. Those that sacrifice to demons and attempt to open portals to hell with blood and sacrifice. If you are naive to pretend that this does not go on then you are a FOOL!

Dokuro
12-03-2010, 06:55 PM
if good and evil are on opposite then so is freedom and peace

good/evil
love/hate
peace/freedom

i i have blood sacrifices every days its called dinner

i'm sacrificing an animal for my wellbeing and i pay tribute to Take-Minikata (Kishin of hunting) witch is a kishin (fierce god) and thats commonly translated to demon buy the western society
and is even considered evil by Shintoist


yo can have hatred and still pose no harm to the subject hatred is in fact instinctual to easily identify who is an enemy that my cause you or your family harm and protecting ones self for the purpose of survival is good


for instants i would never walk into a Christan church because they hate me for worshiping what they call "demons" even though they would say the don't hate they use words like FOOL
and its because of that hatred that i comprise hatred of my own which allows us to easily identify one another as potential threats

Dokuro
12-03-2010, 06:58 PM
in A sense^2 you to are guilty of hate and thous are evil in your own eyes

Dokuro
12-03-2010, 07:12 PM
even Christians make blood sacrifices remember Cain and A'bel god demanded a sacrifice
A'bel being a shepherd sacrifice hes sheep
Cain being a farmer sacrificed hes crop

however good should more respect toward A'bel and his sacrifice of blood as Cains crop died it appeared as if good demanded blood so what better blood the A'bel one born from the blood of the of Yahwehs first enemy/brother Bel

and i believe you know the rest

Sense-A
12-03-2010, 08:24 PM
in A sense^2 you to are guilty of hate and thous are evil in your own eyes

There is good and evil in every man. Only GOD is perfect.

Dokuro
12-03-2010, 09:23 PM
if god so perfect then why
Tay–Sachs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tay%E2%80%93Sachs_disease)
you do not want to go agents me on th imperfection of god you will lose


i am a MOD here http://www.evilbible.com/

WARPATH
12-04-2010, 01:35 AM
and ill say to this again remove rage and greed

all that is natural is good

rage helps you survive if you another man/beast attacks you how can you defend your self wile only thinking and never acting on instincts that lead to the emotion rage it allows you to distance your self from thought and only nature takes over no fear no hate no thought other then to survive is left


if it wasn't for rage we would be living in the united states of Japan and they would be going to war with Germany right know

rage is good rage is natural

greed, fuels progress, progress is survival

Generosity also fuels progress.

Dokuro
12-04-2010, 02:11 AM
Generosity also fuels progress.

yah that totally worked for communism
http://gdb.rferl.org/05D6744C-BF02-4053-BA76-9CEBA49C9470_mw800_mh600.jpg

WARPATH
12-04-2010, 02:17 AM
yah that totally worked for communism
http://gdb.rferl.org/05D6744C-BF02-4053-BA76-9CEBA49C9470_mw800_mh600.jpg

Communism isn't generosity. That's a from of greed. North Korea's Dear Leader sipping Cognac watching porn vs. everyone else starving in that country for example.

I was thinking more like Scholarships.....

Dokuro
12-04-2010, 02:33 AM
oh yah that good but if you read Karl Marx then you would know that its founded on the principle of generosity and it did not factor in humanity natural inclination toward greed which is the primary reason for it failure people want power and they want more but your right next time right more the one sentence but thin again i am the master of the run-on

so i got to throw this at my self
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uieQJSaRXxk/SIJCNBH2eWI/AAAAAAAAAlQ/yIxa9P2bOyU/s400/ist2_315739_contradiction.jpg

WARPATH
12-04-2010, 02:47 AM
oh yah that good but if you read Karl Marx then you would know that its founded on the principle of generosity and it did not factor in humanity natural inclination toward greed which is the primary reason for it failure people want power and they want more but your right next time right more the one sentence but thin again i am the master of the run-on

so i got to throw this at my self
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uieQJSaRXxk/SIJCNBH2eWI/AAAAAAAAAlQ/yIxa9P2bOyU/s400/ist2_315739_contradiction.jpg

The reason tribal societies worked for so long was because prestige was rewarded to those who were most generous. Failure came when people became greedy.

Dokuro
12-04-2010, 02:57 AM
as a cultural anthropologisti got this to say

most cultures about 86% ruffly estimated worked for prestige however in curant time thats been reduced to less he 30%

the rest is all greed baby

but unless you want to go live with the Aw i suggest you start respecting your cultural standers of greed


notice i i did not ague the fact that a person can Greed over Prestige

just as much as power or money

billyanalogue
12-06-2010, 01:43 PM
I am Good-Evil.

Fatal Guillotine
12-08-2010, 05:59 PM
morality and ethics has everything to do with it

Uncle Steezo
12-09-2010, 01:07 AM
when enraged, one loses the capacity for rational thought. rational thought is the only advantage over the wild beast.

rage is not good.

rage might be good for the wild beast but not for the thinking man.

LORD NOSE
12-09-2010, 01:11 AM
that's how they described it ?

Uncle Steezo
12-09-2010, 02:12 AM
rage helps you survive if you another man/beast attacks you how can you defend your self wile only thinking and never acting on instincts that lead to the emotion rage it allows you to distance your self from thought and only nature takes over no fear no hate no thought other then to survive is left

yup

Dokuro
12-10-2010, 08:14 PM
what is evil
2wnPHFSdrME

Fatal Guillotine
03-10-2011, 02:24 PM
bump

Fatal Guillotine
04-23-2011, 11:07 AM
up

Fatal Guillotine
07-01-2011, 11:43 AM
up

Shogah
07-01-2011, 05:17 PM
Some of these make sense don't it?



You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath,

Honor your father and your mother,

You shall not murder.

You shall not commit adultery.

You shall not steal.

You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox(!), nor his donkey(lol), nor anything that is your neighbor's.

But really, in everyday life, especially today, the commandments regarding lying, adultery, gossiping is really hard to keep.

Frank Sobotka
07-03-2011, 07:44 AM
Everybody has their own definitions of good and nobody is evil according to their own definitions so nobody is evil.