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Dokuro
12-16-2010, 05:55 AM
all #-&-% are aprox and estimate

OK dude and dudettes. lets get our head out of the clouds for a minute and talk about something more Fiscal.

any ideas to how you would help relive this debt (http://www.usdebtclock.org/) situation.


luckily were already started positive turns, by the deregulation of energy and industry in america; but is that enough?. i don't think so.


if were going to get out of it we need to quit being such duche-bags and stop fearing the word TAX. I know you all think our country was founded on the belief that we shouldn't pay taxes, but that because your all such Historically illiterate.(don't get mad if that doesn't imply to you thats just being immature) Are county was founded because taxes wear not going to us but across the seas. still all we keep doing is making cuts, then rolling back taxes, then taking out loans. if this was Sim City you just lost(maybe you should try an easer job[run for senate] (http://vorpal86.snesorama.us/images/rmxp_gameovers/gameovers/protGameOver_01.Icy.png)).

lets follow England example and get this VAT tax through legislature. for those who don't know about the VAT. it is a seals tax that only effect people from what they buy(usually not including groceries) and it effect people evenly across the bored, and in order to work effectively without hurting the commercial sector, you would have to keep taxes at a low. i'm not going to lie to you that is great for me, because i'm invested in that sector. the com sector only make up about 30% of are country. even though that is the case we are a consumer nation and should take advantage of it.

second we need to increase the income tax. i know scary. the reason why we are so scared because we pay all these additional taxes. i know in cali were paying Katrina tax6%,(thats another thread) 911 tax,10%(still) Eco tax,8% state 11%, and on top of that are 12%. thats a fucking dookie worth 32% out of your checks. that shit scare me!, as an employer, but if we remove the unless out of state we git 22%. and with a simple increase, state 12% income 15% = 27% out of your check. and stop giving those of us who are above, those Mod-damn TAX break!!!!


share your ideas this is a real debate no attacking individuals on character, only on point.
no one running for office here

pro.Graveface
12-16-2010, 06:00 AM
Im a financial disaster so fuck the US of A the most hypocritical country of all, sorry for my humble opinion
ICHI

SL33
12-16-2010, 06:03 AM
is this real???

http://www.usdebtclock.org/



whoa @ these numbers

Dokuro
12-16-2010, 06:08 AM
is this real???

http://www.usdebtclock.org/



whoa @ these numbers

sadly yes thanks for that

Dokuro
12-16-2010, 06:15 AM
Im a financial disaster so fuck the US of A the most hypocritical country of all, sorry for my humble opinion
ICHI

do you have any ideas to improve are finances, or reduce are hypocrisy?

if not take you ICHI ass out of here

LORD NOSE
12-16-2010, 01:22 PM
hey louie - why don't you take some of that shit outa your sig

PALEHORSE
12-16-2010, 01:24 PM
this is a moot argument

the debt is so bad its impossible to py back

better make sure your money is right

pro.Graveface
12-17-2010, 08:19 AM
all good dane , america based on lies so it will neva solve tere problems u lucifer fool they programmed u deep in ya core sun,
oh almost forgot,
ICHI

Dokuro
12-17-2010, 06:17 PM
^^i'm programed your the one who fell away from odin

but your right the lies are half the problem , and now Obama just sign the bush tax cuts.

so its fucking over we going to gain another 3 trillion dollars. next year and 4 trillion after that. were are not going to get out of the whole.i like to give a big thank you to the republicans for being one steep closer to there 1,000 year kingdom

if thats the case then Lucifer all about raising taxes. because this current regime is in god control

Sense-A
12-17-2010, 06:27 PM
How about you learn how to write correct sentences and use proper grammar and then we'll move on to talk about the USA tax codes. There is no use in talking about a complicated subject to people who read and write at a fourth grade level. You wouldn't understand anyways.

Dokuro
12-17-2010, 06:35 PM
How about you learn how to write correct sentences and use proper grammar and then we'll move on to talk about the USA tax codes. There is no use in talking about a complicated subject to people who read and write at a fourth grade level. You wouldn't understand anyways.

share your ideas this is a real debate no attacking individuals on character, only on point.
no one running for office here
.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
12-17-2010, 07:17 PM
I just want to make my money and get out while the corpse is still hot. Relocate to Africa, take over a country, get my pimpin on, be a leader in the fashion industry, and rock out with my cock out.

http://twistedsifter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fancy-dress-outfits.jpg

2FdVBMcrqY4

Dokuro
12-17-2010, 07:21 PM
alright but stay out of Denmark that shits mine


do you have any ideas to fix whats going on

TheBoarzHeadBoy
12-17-2010, 07:38 PM
alright but stay out of Denmark that shits mine


do you have any ideas to fix whats going on

I didn't do my senior product on the Obama Administration's Stimulus package if that's what you're asking...

Essentially we've got a lot of shit on our plate. We've got a declining role in the world, a lot of political indecision, an ever weakening economy, and an inversed pyramid of wealth. The system is top heavy. The middle class is turning into a lower class while other nations are turning their lower classes into middle classes. America has to collapse if it's going to recover. We've got to have some Eustress. Right now it's distressful. We're dragging this out with no end in sight. We can decline slowly or we can collapse and then spare no time in rebuilding. Look at Russia. The Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. Twenty years later they're in the black with BRIC baller status. Give them a few decades and they'll be back on their feet.

So my solution for the United States is dissolution and a federal bankruptcy. There are enough people in the United States to form a large number of smaller countries. We can remain allies and together we'd still be the largest power in the world, but right now it's being run into the ground.

Dokuro
12-17-2010, 09:19 PM
let shit fall and see if Americans have the common sense to pick them selfs up.

thats not a bad idea.

Uncle Steezo
12-17-2010, 09:25 PM
we already did that and thats why we are in the situation we're in now. you are collateral on the interest of the fed's financing.

Dokuro
12-17-2010, 09:32 PM
actually we prevented a fall; by rolling back the debt and supplying bailouts
so in a sense we increase the length of an actual fall of bankruptcy

now there only two options fix it or fall down harder then we would have prier to the recession

but if you want to fix it you will have to do what japan did and raise taxes

TheBoarzHeadBoy
12-18-2010, 10:41 AM
What are you talking about? Japan basically ruined their economy.

What we need to do is increase growth. That will get us out of the recession period, prevent a second dip, and the increased money will help us pay down the debt. Increase growth and reduce non growth related spending.

PALEHORSE
12-18-2010, 10:44 AM
alright but stay out of Denmark that shits mine


do you have any ideas to fix whats going on

buy american

and if we could somehow start manufacturing these free energy devices i think that would pull us out of this mess

PALEHORSE
12-18-2010, 10:46 AM
actually we prevented a fall; by rolling back the debt and supplying bailouts
so in a sense we increase the length of an actual fall of bankruptcy



at the same time making it 10X worse

china basically owns america now because they are our largest creditors

Sense-A
12-18-2010, 12:01 PM
^^i'm programed your the one who fell away from odin

but your right the lies are half the problem , and now Obama just sign the bush tax cuts.

so its fucking over we going to gain another 3 trillion dollars. next year and 4 trillion after that. were are not going to get out of the whole.i like to give a big thank you to the republicans for being one steep closer to there 1,000 year kingdom

if thats the case then Lucifer all about raising taxes. because this current regime is in god control

You are obviously uneducated when it comes to the Bush tax cuts, what they are composed of, and their overall effect on Federal tax revenue.

As I said in the other thread, the BUSH TAX CUTS INCREASED FEDERAL TAX REVENUE!! THIS IS STATISTICALLY PROVEN!!

http://www.american.com/graphics/2007/november/RIch%20Pay%20More%20Under%20Bush%20Tax%20Cut.jpg

Obama wanted to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts because THEY WORKED!! Spending and revenue are two different beasts! The Demoncrats perform WORSE when it comes to BOTH!! You offer no proof. You are merely parroting what you watch on MSNBC from dumbfucks like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow!

Please stop talking about something that you obviously have not educated yourself on and know nothing about. All you do is spread ignorance to those who may come to this forum to actually learn something.

I put it all in a spreadsheet to try to make it simple for you Smart-Dumb clowns.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/Sense-A/RepvsDemEconomy.jpg?t=1291681668

Since Demoncrats have taken control of Congress, Federal Revenue has gone DOWN while Federal spending has gone UP. You guys fail on both sides of the equation. Conservatism is better. Democrats should not be trusted with fiscal policy. It is so ironic that they consistently ACCUSE Republicans of being the fiscally irresponsible ones. I admit that GWB's fiscal policies were too liberal. But they were still better than what we've seen the last four years with Democrats deciding our budget and spending. The numbers PROVE it. Your lips moving prove nothing.

Sense-A
12-18-2010, 12:29 PM
at the same time making it 10X worse

china basically owns america now because they are our largest creditors

This is also wrong. I feel like an elementary teacher marking your homework papers wrong. Red ink everywhere.

The following is a list of the Foreign Owners of U.S. Treasury Securities as listed by the U.S. Treasury:[24] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt#cite_note-foreign-23)
Leading Foreign owners of US Treasury Securities (July 2010) Nation/Territory billions of dollars percentage People's Republic of China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_China) (mainland) 846.7 20.8 Japan (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan) 821.0 20.2 United Kingdom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) 374.3 9.2 Oil exporters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_exporters)1 223.8 5.5 Caribbean Banking Centers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_haven)2 150.7 3.7 Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil) 162.2 4.0 Hong Kong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong) (Special Administrative Region (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Administrative_Region)) 135.2 3.3 Russia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia) 130.9 3.2 Republic of China (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China) (Taiwan) 130.5 3.2 Grand Total 4065.8 100 1Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Libya, Iran, Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Ecuador, Indonesia, Algeria, Gabon, and Nigeria
2Bahamas, Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Netherlands Antilles, British Virgin Islands and Panama
24 :Major Foreign holders of U.S. Treasury Securities (2008) (http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt), U.S. Treasury Department.

A more updated figure is a grand total of 4300 billion. (http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt)

4.3T divided by 13.9T national debt = ~ 31%
China: 907B / 13900B = less than 7%

Less than 1/3 of our debt is actually owned by foreigners. And one of the major reasons foreign countries like China buy American Treasuries is to keep their own currencies from inflating too much. The green dollar is still the number one currency in the world because no one expects that the American government system that backs our currency is going to collapse anytime soon.

Saying that China basically owns the USA is a really far stretch of the imagination. They own a large chunk of treasury bonds but for reasons I briefly explained. Their own economy is struggling and they DEPEND on exporting goods to the USA to keep their own economy moving. Not to say that the portion of our debt that is owed to China doesn't bother me some. It is a bad thing. And yes, owing money to other countries might indirectly have an effect on our political and economic sovereignty.

In all though, other countries investing in American treasuries isn't necessarily a bad thing. For one thing the interest we pay on that debt isn't at as bad a rate as it could be. People predict that the buying of US treasuries will actually decrease because better returns can be had elsewhere.

China or Japan or Taiwan want to get shitty with us? We slap heavy tariffs on what they export to us and they start begging for mercy. But that would mean that Americans don't get to buy cheap Chinese crap anymore.

It is sad that something such as this is manufactured and sold for cheaper than what we can make it for here ourselves:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uieQJSaRXxk/SIJCNBH2eWI/AAAAAAAAAlQ/yIxa9P2bOyU/s400/ist2_315739_contradiction.jpg

But we at least pay employees a minimum wage, only make them work 40 hours a week, give them social security, holidays, retirement and all the other many great benefits that even the most lowly unskilled American workers get.

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 02:06 PM
You are obviously uneducated when it comes to the Bush tax cuts, what they are composed of, and their overall effect on Federal tax revenue.

As I said in the other thread, the BUSH TAX CUTS INCREASED FEDERAL TAX REVENUE!! THIS IS STATISTICALLY PROVEN!!

http://www.american.com/graphics/2007/november/RIch%20Pay%20More%20Under%20Bush%20Tax%20Cut.jpg

Obama wanted to EXTEND the Bush tax cuts because THEY WORKED!! Spending and revenue are two different beasts! The Demoncrats perform WORSE when it comes to BOTH!! You offer no proof. You are merely parroting what you watch on MSNBC from dumbfucks like Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow!

Please stop talking about something that you obviously have not educated yourself on and know nothing about. All you do is spread ignorance to those who may come to this forum to actually learn something.

I put it all in a spreadsheet to try to make it simple for you Smart-Dumb clowns.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/Sense-A/RepvsDemEconomy.jpg?t=1291681668

Since Demoncrats have taken control of Congress, Federal Revenue has gone DOWN while Federal spending has gone UP. You guys fail on both sides of the equation. Conservatism is better. Democrats should not be trusted with fiscal policy. It is so ironic that they consistently ACCUSE Republicans of being the fiscally irresponsible ones. I admit that GWB's fiscal policies were too liberal. But they were still better than what we've seen the last four years with Democrats deciding our budget and spending. The numbers PROVE it. Your lips moving prove nothing.

well built argument but lets break it down from # 2 first

notice how in that graph the decline whenever Reagenomics is in play.

do you notice how from Reagan to Clinton it goes down...good
thats because the same tax cuts were in play as now.


notice when Clinton removed the cuts on us. do you see how we gain a surplus.

now notice when bush reinstates the tax cuts. see how we have a deficit.

thats what you get with the current plain.



and on the second of course your always going to pay the same rate across the bored

but lets take a look at the cuts



lets say 10% is or current rate
and you get a cut at 10,000 a year that will return 4% of your revenue that gives you back 400 dollars directly from the government pocket no this prise gets to be astronomical once you hit 10,000,000,000, = 400,000,000 out of pocket now the government hopes this will cause a trickle down effect witch is why the offer this incentive.

but keep believe what you want, i make over 250,000 so i'm going to enjoy my cut why this county falls down

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 02:08 PM
if you want a full course take econ in college you see this is a bad idea

and the # clearly show that

Sense-A
12-18-2010, 03:27 PM
well built argument but lets break it down from # 2 first

notice how in that graph the decline whenever Reagenomics is in play.

First of all lets remember that during those Reagan years the Democrats were in control of congress and dictating our country's tax policy and spending. Annual revenue increased by ~$210 Billion from the first to last year of Reagan's presidency according to my excel numbers. Spending increased by about $400Billion which is hardly much compared to the durations of others' presidencies. Anything positive or negative you take from that should be attributed to Democrats' policies, unless you believe somehow that Reagan was using his veto power to govern what congress was doing. But I've never seen any evidence of that. I defended Reaganomics in another thread and don't recall anyone making a good argument against EXACTLY why Reagan gets the criticism from the left that he does. It is undeserved criticism. Reagan was a savior compared to the prior years that Jimmy Carter was in power. Inflation was RAMPANT during the Carter years. Inflation sucks. Jimmy Carter left our American hostages to die in Iran. He even recently admited himself some of the failures of his presidency. Jimmy Carter was a fucking peanut farmer. Guy did not know what the fuck he was doing. That's why we got rid of him after only 4 years. Reagan got us out of the economic recession that Carter was burying us in. Thank you Reagan. Sorry that liberals constantly criticize you even when you're in your grave without knowing any of the facts of your presidency.



do you notice how from Reagan to Clinton it goes down...good
thats because the same tax cuts were in play as now.

notice when Clinton removed the cuts on us. do you see how we gain a surplus.

now notice when bush reinstates the tax cuts. see how we have a deficit.

thats what you get with the current plain.

First of all, what cuts? Please be specific. Tax policy during various administrations cannot be loosely termed "cuts" or "no cuts." That is like classifying everything from GzaGenius to souljah boy as "rap."

From Reagan to the beginning of Clinton's administration, federal tax revenue nearly doubled! Thats a good thing! Well, not if you're the one paying all the taxes. But from the viewpoint of our country as a whole it is a good thing! The Republicans used fair tax rates and still grew revenue. Why? Because not overtaxing business yields a larger base to tax!! taxing 40% of $10billion generates less revenue than when you lower taxes, the businesses expand, and you tax 20% of $100billion! Lower tax rate, higher revenue. Simple math.

The Democrats were in charge of congress from '87 to '94, and that is when they had higher spending than revenue. This is not the Republican president's fault. The President just signs whatever spending budget that the Democratically dominated congress puts in front of them, or else they veto it. But as time draws closer to a deadline, the country needs a budget, and the President just acknowledges and signs what Congress has put forth. If you are unhappy from '87 to '94, again, you should be directing your frustrations toward the Democratic congressmen of that time period.

The surplus (which really wasn't a surplus but that takes a long explanation) during the Clinton years is THANKS TO REPUBLICANS! Yes! Look at all the red in the excel spreadsheet. I highlighted those cells to indicate that the majority of Congress for those years were Republicans! Republicans balanced our budget and were running surpluses. Thanks Republicans! All Clinton did was sign the piece of paper in between catching blow jobs. Again, you are MISPLACING all your criticism and compliments.

Now I will agree with you on one thing. That GWB with a Republican led congress from 2002 until 2006 was fiscally irresponsible. But in retrospect to the last 30 years, Republicans have been much more conservative when it comes to both revenue generation for our Federal government and Federal spending.

and on the second of course your always going to pay the same rate across the bored

but lets take a look at the cuts

lets say 10% is or current rate
and you get a cut at 10,000 a year that will return 4% of your revenue that gives you back 400 dollars directly from the government pocket no this prise gets to be astronomical once you hit 10,000,000,000, = 400,000,000 out of pocket now the government hopes this will cause a trickle down effect witch is why the offer this incentive.

but keep believe what you want, i make over 250,000 so i'm going to enjoy my cut why this county falls down

You are looking at who gets the bigger "cut." But that is irrelevant and just a parlor trick. WHAT REALLY MATTERS IS HOW MUCH SOMEONE EFFECTIVELY PAYS IN ANNUAL TAX! Not how much of a cut they get from what they paid last year. That is only a misleading decoy.

http://static.seekingalpha.com/uploads/2010/10/14/saupload_tax_shares_1.jpg
http://seekingalpha.com/article/230115-our-highly-progressive-tax-code-illustrated?source=email

This chart shows that the top 1% of taxpayers (ranked by income) pay ~40% of all Federal income taxes; the top 5% (includes all those whose AGI exceeds $160K) pay ~60% of total taxes; and the top 10% pay 70% of all income taxes. You can find the data and commentary from The Tax Foundation here.

Those whom Obama would label as rich—those with incomes greater than 250K—and thus deserving of higher tax rates, paid (based on my interpolation of the data) about 50% of all Federal income taxes in 2008. Is that not enough of a burden?

Despite the 50% reduction in top marginal tax rates since 1980, the rich have paid progressively more and more of total income taxes.

That is the Laffer Curve at work!. And even more unfair is that the top 1% of income earners paid almost as much (92%) as the bottom 95%. We are deeply in a situation in which the few are supporting the many: the bottom 50% of income earners paid only 2.7% of total income taxes in 2008, and 52 million taxpayers paid no income taxes at all.

Basically, the rich already pay more than their share. You and I are the ones not paying our fair share. Shall we man up and raise taxes on ourselves then?

Sense-A
12-18-2010, 03:39 PM
In defense to the biased undue criticism towards Ronald Reagan I submit the following facts to the court:

President Ronald Reagan's record includes sweeping economic reforms and deep across-the-board tax cuts, market deregulation, and sound monetary policies to contain inflation. His policies resulted in the largest peacetime economic boom in American history and nearly 35 million more jobs. As the Joint Economic Committee reported in April 2000:2 (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record#pgfId-1122083)

In 1981, newly elected President Ronald Reagan refocused fiscal policy on the long run. He proposed, and Congress passed, sharp cuts in marginal tax rates. The cuts increased incentives to work and stimulated growth. These were funda-mental policy changes that provided the foundation for the Great Expansion that began in December 1982.


As Exhibit 1 shows, the economic record of the last 17 years is remarkable, particularly when viewed against the backdrop of the 1970s. The United States has experienced two of the longest and strongest expansions in our history back to back. They have been interrupted only by a shallow eight-month downturn in 1990-91. http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2001/03/the-real-reagan-economic-record

http://www.heritage.org/static/reportimages/95D680E37D76F5A72E7656465722BEB6.gif?w=310&h=473&as=1

In my opinion, these are sound results.

Let's go back to my excel spreadsheet that I put together:

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j310/Sense-A/RepvsDemDeficit.jpg

Please see the regions that I highlighted. Double digit year over year increases to our total deficit thanks to Democratic majority in Congress during those years. Like I said, Republicans are bad, but DEMOCRATS ARE WORSE!!

And this is proof. So next time your liberal professor starts ranting on about how everything is Ronald Reagan's fault, raise your hand and prove him wrong! And the next time your liberal teacher tries brainwashing your peers with liberal bullshit about how everything is the GOP's fault, you raise your hand and speak your voice and explain that however bad you claim the Republicans have done, the Democrats are actually even worse and neither party is the answer. Thats why Liberals should have been complimenting the Tea Party and the closest thing we've come to a third party instead of immediately advertising against it and shooting it down as some "fake grassroots" uprising as Democrat Ice Queen Nancy Pelosi so ignorantly put it.

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 03:47 PM
the thing that got passed yesterday!!!

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 03:48 PM
its killing us

Sense-A
12-18-2010, 04:03 PM
its killing us

No its not. The unemployment extensions that the DEMONcrats snuck in the bill as PORK are killing us. You are overtaxing the rich to pay people who don't work and aren't even dedicated to actually performing a job hunt. My brother is a manager and he says people come in all the time to get their unemployment papers signed indicating that they attempted to get a job. My brother tells the assholes to fuck off or to at least take the time to fill out an application if they are even serious about getting a job. Of course they aren't. They just want something to bring to their unemployment extension interview every 12 weeks that might confuse the bureaucrat that they did something besides sit on their lazy asses the whole 12 weeks and smoke pot and drink beer and watch tell-lies-vision.

Sense-A
12-18-2010, 04:07 PM
Louis Cypher: The new Republican dominated house of representatives takes office on January 3rd, 2011. The Senate will still be dominated by Democrats 53-47. If, in 2011, we experience REDUCED year over year federal spending and INCREASED federal revenue, will you admit that the tax policy worked and that the Republicans were right? And if the spending increases and revenue is reduced, I will admit that I was wrong and you were right. Do you accept this?

We will revisit in one year and retrospectively acknowledge who was right. I look forward to that day.

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 04:25 PM
sadly that is the case but there are people out they that really wan't a job and i wish i had room to give them one but the further are deficit drops the more cut backs i have to make

and in order to fix the deficit we need to remove this cuts witch ah proven effective in the passed

and i'm not really being over taxed when you make as much as i do you see that you can easily to give afford more i believe i already explained this to you

% are across the board, that how % work your still losing that amount out of your income weather you make 11,000 or 250,000 your still loosing 24% of it


i have actually talk to my lawyer about starting up a charity to give money to the deficit but thats illegal

we need to do something or every thing funded by taxes will just stop

and thanks to are deficit we will be like that for 6 years and completely open to every one

if you rally love america you would tax the fuck out of the rich





luckily for me it doesn't matter because like most of us upper income we are dual citizens. i'm doing what i can to take advantage of the time and improve the econ as much as i can but once that shit hits the fan it's.... screw you guys i'm going to
http://www.mapsofworld.com/images/world-countries-flags/japan-flag.gif

i have an escape plain you should to if your eating that shit that the corporations are feeding you, because i know they do -coff-coof... outsourcing

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 04:27 PM
Louis Cypher: The new Republican dominated house of representatives takes office on January 3rd, 2011. The Senate will still be dominated by Democrats 53-47. If, in 2011, we experience REDUCED year over year federal spending and INCREASED federal revenue, will you admit that the tax policy worked and that the Republicans were right? And if the spending increases and revenue is reduced, I will admit that I was wrong and you were right. Do you accept this?

We will revisit in one year and retrospectively acknowledge who was right. I look forward to that day.

ya sound fair i mean after all i was right about Obama being a da-kun

Dokuro
12-18-2010, 05:07 PM
from are brother Zig over in gen chat
Endofamerica3.com


and from me

http://www.shikokubank.co.jp/

CEITEDMOFO
12-19-2010, 02:14 PM
How about you learn how to write correct sentences and use proper grammar and then we'll move on to talk about the USA tax codes. There is no use in talking about a complicated subject to people who read and write at a fourth grade level. You wouldn't understand anyways.

+ 1000 THIS COMMI LOUIS / GREAT LAME FAGGIT IS A INSUFFERABLE IDIOT/COCKSUCKER
:loser:

Dokuro
12-19-2010, 08:26 PM
+ 1000 THIS COMMI LOUIS / GREAT LAME FAGGIT IS A INSUFFERABLE IDIOT/COCKSUCKER
:loser:

please
share your ideas this is a real debate no attacking individuals on character, only on point.
no one running for office here

Sense-A
12-21-2010, 08:20 AM
I think I've posted this before. It is a simple analogy towards why an overly-progressive tax system does not work. It describes what happens when you go too far to the right on the x-axis of the Laffer curve.

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten
comes to $100.

If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like
this:

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
* The fifth would pay $1.
* The sixth would pay $3.
* The seventh would pay $7.
* The eighth would pay $12.
* The ninth would pay $18.
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the
arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the
cost of your daily beer by $20.’

‘Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.’

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the
first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what
about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the
$20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end
up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would
be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he
proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
* The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 ( 25% savings).
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 ( 22% savings).
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to
drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare
their savings.

‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed to
the tenth man,’but he got $10!’

‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only Saved a dollar, too.

It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I!’

‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’

‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get
anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

Dokuro
01-20-2011, 04:22 PM
OK hear we go lest get the conversation back up I know sense-A was arguing over what all the politicians are arguing over. Weather or not to cut spending or raise taxis but I want to confirm to you I think we should do both. Lets take it back to 1930 we know now that it wasn't the war that got us out of great depression but it was because all Americans sacrificed for there county, poor and rich we were united not only in hate. (ahh.... glorious hate) do you all really need the history lesson

my point is we all gave what we could but
now people are going around saying make cuts over there as long as it doesn't effect me I'm cool with it well we all know the one shouting in the crowd is the one that can afford a blow-horn

so short of starting a WW3 which will get us out of paying china back
we all need to come together and realize the only way out of your fiscal predicament is is to sacrifice

or we can face the alternative and become a 3rd wold

I mean me and all the other rich folk have no stake in it, I bank in japan and I can afford to take my shit and go

end bush tax cuts

all citizens of America who own companies outside of America pay a 33% income tax rate

deregulation!!!!!!!

cuts on funding to (excluding Education)

!End the War!

cap on government pensions 20 years

no national crisis aid to other country (we are in crisis)

“even out the balance” no tax brakes based on income

remove currant crisis tax (Katrina/9:11)

increase income tax to 30%(bite me I'll be paying more then you)[but I love America so its cool]

10 year plane should get us back in the Blue


after we get back on our feet then we can work on

healthcare reform (the one reason why Canada doesn't exists)
and
education reform (I still want to increase High-school by 2 years as well as reforming curriculum)

but that's a different thread