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View Full Version : What is 'real' hip-hop?


NUH
10-17-2005, 01:56 AM
To me, there is no such thing. I mean, Hip-Hop started out as party music and slowly evolved to other sub-genres. I'll listen to crunk, NYC, westcoast, Houston, and any other rap that I think is hot. What annoys me are these backpackers who think they know what real and fake is. Would you all listen to Mos Def or Little Brother when you're out in a club? I doubt it. Stop with the generalizations and realize there is no such thing as 'real' Hip-Hop.

Sicka than aidZ
10-17-2005, 02:02 AM
deez nutz in yo mouth ya' trickass biaaatch!

Visionz
10-17-2005, 02:28 AM
if ya don't like the term 'true hip-hop' what do you think of pure hip-hop?

killabee_1993
10-17-2005, 02:29 AM
I would definitely agree. The word real in reference to hip hop is a lie people with such forceful opinions wanna put out there to feel like they are superior and all knowing of the vast genre. As with any art form, because hip hop is definitely such, its all based on your opinions and everybody has em. It just breaks down to what you think is bad hip hop and good hip hop to you as a listener. Its ridiculous to say, I listen to this kind and what you like since it isnt the same as me, is fake hip hop. Thats just ignorant close minded bullshit. Think for yourself I say. You know what you are talking about man, I like some stuff from every sub genre of hip hop. Good music is good music. I dont care if what your skin color is, where you are from, if you are popular or undergound, good shit is good shit. peace

37thchamber
10-17-2005, 02:34 AM
underground = true hip hop

killabee_1993
10-17-2005, 02:40 AM
I definitely agree with pure hip hop and true hip hop, real hip hop as a term is just ridiculous. The pureness of the music can definitely be identified regarding the elements involved there, good point man. Your on point. I shoulda put that in there.

Bloo
10-17-2005, 02:44 AM
Here's a generalization...

Everything on 106 and Park = Garbage Hip-Hop
Everything on TRL = Garbage period
Everything they play on the radio = Garbage Hip-Hop

The shit you only find out about due to word of mouth and internet chat forums = Good Hip-Hop

koncretegorilla
10-17-2005, 04:38 AM
Hip hop is a way of life not an artform, certainly not a pre-concieved notion of individuals who present their spoken word, as opposed to 'rep'resenting their words spoken.
Whether or not its counted as 'True or Pure', the fact still remains that its real in the form of it being presented as spoken word. What you hear is 'real', What you see is 'real', 'What u feel...
Is real defined as a noun/adjective/adverb?? .The answer is all, and all references are made during any given song, therefore rendering an artist and-or his/her music (at least beliefs or experiences) real to the extent, that what they've presented they also represent as a voice for the expression....



"If I was to 'SHOW' an individual I posessed a gold finger, do u think he/she would class it as *not*real ?"..... "What if I 'TOLD', instead of showing, I posessed a gold finger..???"

Real in the sense of the word, is legitmate to phrase for those on similar wavelengths/levels.
e.g. : Will Smith fan says .."This is the *realest* outthere" -(dont exactly sound right to a kid born cussin' lol yahmean)
e.g. : Mannie Fresh groupie says .."Bwah firin' det *real* right thurr -(see i hood relate, so wat manny say ima kno is real, cos i seen it)...

..i know what they both tryna rep is 'real' tho, so i aint gon say it aint... to say its false tho is entirely different. Did someone mention 'True' hip-hop??

koncretegorilla
10-17-2005, 05:06 AM
lol... hip hop will never be pure, music as WE THE WORLD knows it, will never be pure again.
Every sound ever sang/strummed/hummed/picked/beaten/whistled/blown/chanted/spoken...
..have already graced the foundations of Old Earth, aeons preceeding the 'Sapien Species.
Modern man has altered and enhanced exsisting sounds, tones, tunes etc.. with an exception to maybe a select few of elite forefathers, who paved freeways with immense ingenuity, creating octaves unexplored.

Hip hop is a format of music derived from genres of varied sources (impurity)
To be pure, the subject of the topic must be free from contamination

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 05:58 AM
Here's a generalization...

Everything on 106 and Park = Garbage Hip-Hop
Everything on TRL = Garbage period
Everything they play on the radio = Garbage Hip-Hop

The shit you only find out about due to word of mouth and internet chat forums = Good Hip-Hop
example of ignorance. you just called all ur fav rappers garbage

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 06:03 AM
true and pure are the same thing lol. wtf? cause its not pure nor the true version. It shouldnt even be called hip hop. Hip Hop is a culture not type of music. RAP is the music.... therefor it should be something like. Backpacker Rap or somethin. Yall think u know so much by dissing radio n shit when your fav artists are on or trying to get on radio u fools. not one person out there is doing this shit just for the music. they all need money

Dr Zayus
10-17-2005, 06:05 AM
Don't bother asking that question here, about three quarters of these people are "OMG IF DEY HAV VIDEO DEY SUXX LOLI"

Bloo
10-17-2005, 06:52 AM
example of ignorance. you just called all ur fav rappers garbage
Oh really?

When was the last time you saw a Boot Camp Klik Video on there? Or a Slum Village Video? Or MF Doom, or even Wu-Tang?

They don't show em.

Garbage

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
10-17-2005, 07:38 AM
This whole thread is a waste of time. The is only going to go round in circles.

Analyze
10-17-2005, 07:46 AM
Yep, half of the niggas on here like that crunk shit and they say that "rap started out as party music" then you got other niggas like myself that say "rap is about lyricism" and Bone Collecta calling niggas ignorant.

Wu Forever

NelsOne
10-17-2005, 01:03 PM
"Real Hip Hop" is a beat and one or more mcs! You don't need expensive clothing or a special way of life! Hip Hop is "Do what you feel"! You don't need no video clips or computer games! (okay the wu beat'em up kicked ass! ;) )

Just hang around with you friends and listen to the music you like and do stuff you like and let nobody tell you what to do! yeah that's hip hop to me!

baby jesus
10-17-2005, 01:10 PM
Oh really?

When was the last time you saw a Boot Camp Klik Video on there? Or a Slum Village Video? Or MF Doom, or even Wu-Tang?

They don't show em.

GarbageActually I Seen A Slum Village And Wu-tang Video Just The Other Day. I Know For Sure I Seen A Ghostface Video Yesterday On Mtv2. And Boot Camp Use To Have Video's Played. So Did You Like Boot Camp Then?

Mixtape Mutt
10-17-2005, 01:40 PM
These days what people consider Hip-Hop is not Hip-Hop...it's hip-pop. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be. Hip-Hop has been commercialised and transformed into club bangers and party music. I remember when Hip-Hop was raw and just flat out ill, it still is but you gotta find it. All you hear on the radio, and almost all the music videos you see on TV is these days is garbage.

Hip-Hop was made by the hungry, so it's not so much a suprise that a lot of these artists go mainstream and sell out. But just because you go mainstream doesn't mean you can't hold it down, look at the 90's. The true essence of Hip-Hop took over the mainstream and became mainstream, that was Hip-Hop you could be proud of. That was Hip-Hop you could defend, now a days all anyone who doesn't know what Hip-Hop is looks at the white boys in the suburbs and labels it Hip-Hop. 50Cent whether we like it or not has become an icon...fucking queer bag. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be.

Artists with true lyrical talent are in the underground, not many can match them. Look at Nas, you can't really call him underground, he's mainstream. But my nigga Nas is holding it down, keeping it real. You have to evolve with some artists, not say they fell off because you don't really understand somethings. Artists fall off, but not Nas. Back in the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was strong going and surviving, now its trash for the most part.

You can listen to this hip-pop all you want, I'm not taking any part in that. I'm not gonna support it, I'll listen to it while I'm dancing with some chick rubbing her ass on my cock. But I won't listen to it in my car, in my home or on the train. I won't have that poison in my ear unless I'm in a club dancing with some chick. Even if I'm in the car with my girl, there's no radio play ever...all you'd hear is Wu-Tang, Killarmy, Nas, Pharoe Monch, KRS One, and anyone else who makes real music.

And fuck how many units you move, it's not how much you sell. Your fanbase could be a bunch of 15 year olds thinking they're cool. It's not how many people you listen to, it's WHO listens to you - GZA.

Can you honestly call all that shit out there Hip-Hop? You know what good music sounds like, after all this is a Wu-Tang forum, but you still go with the masses and conform to the new movement, the hip-pop movement. Every real Hip-Hop head I meet is cool because it's great to still see cats like that around. But when I see people pumping 50Cent and Young Cheesy, I wonder sometimes...wtf is wrong with them. To end this long ass post, heres the wise words of KRS One;

Rap is what you do, Hip-Hop is what you live.

If you're a Hip-Hop head, you live it and you live in it and Hip-Hop lives in you.


PEACE.

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
10-17-2005, 02:33 PM
^ Say word! Dope post mutt

Create
10-17-2005, 02:48 PM
true and pure are the same thing lol. wtf? cause its not pure nor the true version. It shouldnt even be called hip hop. Hip Hop is a culture not type of music. RAP is the music.... therefor it should be something like. Backpacker Rap or somethin. Yall think u know so much by dissing radio n shit when your fav artists are on or trying to get on radio u fools. not one person out there is doing this shit just for the music. they all need money
WRONG !!!


I GUESS U ENVER PICKED UP AN ALBUM BY OC


DUDE SAYS SEVERAL TIMES HE DOESNT DO IT FOR THE MONEY BUT FOR THE LOVE OF HIP HOP

SO UR THE ONLY INGORANT ONE

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 02:53 PM
Oh really?

When was the last time you saw a Boot Camp Klik Video on there? Or a Slum Village Video? Or MF Doom, or even Wu-Tang?

They don't show em.

Garbage
yes they do show wu and slum village dumb fool.

Create
10-17-2005, 02:54 PM
These days what people consider Hip-Hop is not Hip-Hop...it's hip-pop. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be. Hip-Hop has been commercialised and transformed into club bangers and party music. I remember when Hip-Hop was raw and just flat out ill, it still is but you gotta find it. All you hear on the radio, and almost all the music videos you see on TV is these days is garbage.

Hip-Hop was made by the hungry, so it's not so much a suprise that a lot of these artists go mainstream and sell out. But just because you go mainstream doesn't mean you can't hold it down, look at the 90's. The true essence of Hip-Hop took over the mainstream and became mainstream, that was Hip-Hop you could be proud of. That was Hip-Hop you could defend, now a days all anyone who doesn't know what Hip-Hop is looks at the white boys in the suburbs and labels it Hip-Hop. 50Cent whether we like it or not has become an icon...fucking queer bag. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be.

Artists with true lyrical talent are in the underground, not many can match them. Look at Nas, you can't really call him underground, he's mainstream. But my nigga Nas is holding it down, keeping it real. You have to evolve with some artists, not say they fell off because you don't really understand somethings. Artists fall off, but not Nas. Back in the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was strong going and surviving, now its trash for the most part.

You can listen to this hip-pop all you want, I'm not taking any part in that. I'm not gonna support it, I'll listen to it while I'm dancing with some chick rubbing her ass on my cock. But I won't listen to it in my car, in my home or on the train. I won't have that poison in my ear unless I'm in a club dancing with some chick. Even if I'm in the car with my girl, there's no radio play ever...all you'd hear is Wu-Tang, Killarmy, Nas, Pharoe Monch, KRS One, and anyone else who makes real music.

And fuck how many units you move, it's not how much you sell. Your fanbase could be a bunch of 15 year olds thinking they're cool. It's not how many people you listen to, it's WHO listens to you - GZA.

Can you honestly call all that shit out there Hip-Hop? You know what good music sounds like, after all this is a Wu-Tang forum, but you still go with the masses and conform to the new movement, the hip-pop movement. Every real Hip-Hop head I meet is cool because it's great to still see cats like that around. But when I see people pumping 50Cent and Young Cheesy, I wonder sometimes...wtf is wrong with them. To end this long ass post, heres the wise words of KRS One;

Rap is what you do, Hip-Hop is what you live.

If you're a Hip-Hop head, you live it and you live in it and Hip-Hop lives in you.


PEACE.
i was gonna add to this but

GOT DAMMM


U MURDERED THIS KID !!!

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 02:54 PM
WRONG !!!


I GUESS U ENVER PICKED UP AN ALBUM BY OC


DUDE SAYS SEVERAL TIMES HE DOESNT DO IT FOR THE MONEY BUT FOR THE LOVE OF HIP HOP

SO UR THE ONLY INGORANT ONE
lol just cause he says it doesnt make it true.

pecker2832
10-17-2005, 03:00 PM
mixtape mutt very good post. I think as years go on types of music branch off. Hip hop and rock music are good examples. Rock was really popular and after some time rock music branched off into Heavy metal/hard rock, death metal, alternative rock, punk rock and whatever else there is. Hip Hop same thing. It branched off into different types hip pop, southern rap ect. Some people like the new hip hop/rock and some people dont. Me, I perfer classic hip hop but the only mainstream artists I really listen too are Nas, JayZ, Common, Jadakiss and thats about it.

NUH
10-17-2005, 03:19 PM
Feelin lots of the posts, good replies.
if ya don't like the term 'true hip-hop' what do you think of pure hip-hop? To me, anyone who raps and is part of the hip-hop lifestyle is 'true'. But then again, there's no real definition.
underground = true hip hop Lots of underground rap is garbage, as is mainstream. We should differentiate between wack and hot.
Here's a generalization...

Everything on 106 and Park = Garbage Hip-Hop
Everything on TRL = Garbage period
Everything they play on the radio = Garbage Hip-Hop

The shit you only find out about due to word of mouth and internet chat forums = Good Hip-Hop Not really. Saigon and Papoose to me are wack as fuck. Mainstream wise I don't like Kanye West either. Although he's not lyrical, I bump Young Jeezy. I even bump Immortal Technique so there's not hate for the mainstream or underground from me.

Bloo
10-17-2005, 03:56 PM
yes they do show wu and slum village dumb fool.
Whatever man... I'm talkin about as of late, not in the history of the show. And I ain't seen them on in over a year so I sand by my statement.

Go chill in some traffic or somethin

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 03:59 PM
Whatever man... I'm talkin about as of late, not in the history of the show. And I ain't seen them on in over a year so I sand by my statement.

Go chill in some traffic or somethin
you can only play something when the ppl have material to play. lol u cant play shit that doesnt exist. plus they always go back and the top 25 countdowns they have on BET they show plenty of old school shit

Bloo
10-17-2005, 04:04 PM
Such is true. but you and I both know these artists out here got matereal that never sees the light of day even when they got some new shit out. That's just the way it works. People wanna hear that commercial shit, make em feel like they in a club in their living room. That's all fine and good. I just choose not to participate

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 04:09 PM
it also has to do with marketing if their label isnt pushing them they wont see the light of day. shit happened to Twista cause Atlantic wouldnt fuck wit him anymore and it took Dame to be interested in him for them to realize that he could sell records. Its all about sales to these top labels Wu can sell but they not consistant enough with releases. shit comes out every 10 million yrs. When they did the W album they couldve come back strong into the mainstream but they fell flat after that album back to the underground. If you look back then ppl were feeling a come back to the mainstream by the Wu. They had that TRL stage goin crazy. Shit doesnt happen for Wu cause they dont MAKE IT HAPPEN

oldie
10-17-2005, 05:10 PM
IMO Real Hip-Hop is Underground, real emcee's like necro, 7L & Eso, JMT, Gang Starr etc who DON'T fall the fuck in to mainstream and continue to stand for making music for making music and not mainly for the money.

dooboy
10-17-2005, 05:26 PM
i think Mixtape Mutt put it perfectly

also bone collecta i know you don't like KRS but listen to this full interview perhaps you'll find it intereasting cos he gives his view on everything to do with hiphop

let us know wot you think

http://www.bbc.co.uk/1xtra/hiphop/krsone_talk.shtml

peace

Oztradamus
10-17-2005, 06:11 PM
THE BOOM BAP!! Original Rap!!!

Mixtape Mutt
10-17-2005, 06:37 PM
KRS is the man, even though he destroyed MC Shan...KRS has a message, especially during his BDP days. Can't fuck with him.

adriatic
10-17-2005, 06:47 PM
These days what people consider Hip-Hop is not Hip-Hop...it's hip-pop. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be. Hip-Hop has been commercialised and transformed into club bangers and party music. I remember when Hip-Hop was raw and just flat out ill, it still is but you gotta find it. All you hear on the radio, and almost all the music videos you see on TV is these days is garbage.

Hip-Hop was made by the hungry, so it's not so much a suprise that a lot of these artists go mainstream and sell out. But just because you go mainstream doesn't mean you can't hold it down, look at the 90's. The true essence of Hip-Hop took over the mainstream and became mainstream, that was Hip-Hop you could be proud of. That was Hip-Hop you could defend, now a days all anyone who doesn't know what Hip-Hop is looks at the white boys in the suburbs and labels it Hip-Hop. 50Cent whether we like it or not has become an icon...fucking queer bag. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be.

Artists with true lyrical talent are in the underground, not many can match them. Look at Nas, you can't really call him underground, he's mainstream. But my nigga Nas is holding it down, keeping it real. You have to evolve with some artists, not say they fell off because you don't really understand somethings. Artists fall off, but not Nas. Back in the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was strong going and surviving, now its trash for the most part.

You can listen to this hip-pop all you want, I'm not taking any part in that. I'm not gonna support it, I'll listen to it while I'm dancing with some chick rubbing her ass on my cock. But I won't listen to it in my car, in my home or on the train. I won't have that poison in my ear unless I'm in a club dancing with some chick. Even if I'm in the car with my girl, there's no radio play ever...all you'd hear is Wu-Tang, Killarmy, Nas, Pharoe Monch, KRS One, and anyone else who makes real music.

And fuck how many units you move, it's not how much you sell. Your fanbase could be a bunch of 15 year olds thinking they're cool. It's not how many people you listen to, it's WHO listens to you - GZA.

Can you honestly call all that shit out there Hip-Hop? You know what good music sounds like, after all this is a Wu-Tang forum, but you still go with the masses and conform to the new movement, the hip-pop movement. Every real Hip-Hop head I meet is cool because it's great to still see cats like that around. But when I see people pumping 50Cent and Young Cheesy, I wonder sometimes...wtf is wrong with them. To end this long ass post, heres the wise words of KRS One;

Rap is what you do, Hip-Hop is what you live.

If you're a Hip-Hop head, you live it and you live in it and Hip-Hop lives in you.


PEACE.
I swear I've seen you write out more or less this exact post in every thread you post in. Hop off the soapbox already.

And I actually agree with Bonecollecta (for once) in this thread about Wu-Tang during their "first" comeback...5 years ago. People wanted them to come back strong and they just fell apart.

Mixtape Mutt
10-17-2005, 06:50 PM
I swear I've seen you write out more or less this exact post in every thread you post in. Hop off the soapbox already.

And I actually agree with Bonecollecta (for once) in this thread about Wu-Tang during their "first" comeback...5 years ago. People wanted them to come back strong and they just fell apart.

Exactly, in order for people to understand something you must repeat your message. I really don't care if you agree or not. You're a herb, Blastmaster KRS the Teacha, would agree with me. My real Hip-Hop heads agree with me.

adriatic
10-17-2005, 06:53 PM
My real Hip-Hop heads agree with me.
Yeah that's something to be proud of.

SMH

Mixtape Mutt
10-17-2005, 06:55 PM
Yeah, saying SMH makes you cool. Keep saying that.

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 06:56 PM
they are not real hip hop lol how can they be real if the music didnt start that way?

Bone Collecta
10-17-2005, 06:59 PM
IMO Real Hip-Hop is Underground, real emcee's like necro, 7L & Eso, JMT, Gang Starr etc who DON'T fall the fuck in to mainstream and continue to stand for making music for making music and not mainly for the money.
how is the underground real huh? plzz tell me. there are wack ppl in the underground too ya know? just as wack as these "garbage" mainstream rappers. so how could underground be real when there are trash in the undergroud too?

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
10-17-2005, 07:00 PM
These days what people consider Hip-Hop is not Hip-Hop...it's hip-pop. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be. Hip-Hop has been commercialised and transformed into club bangers and party music. I remember when Hip-Hop was raw and just flat out ill, it still is but you gotta find it. All you hear on the radio, and almost all the music videos you see on TV is these days is garbage.

Hip-Hop was made by the hungry, so it's not so much a suprise that a lot of these artists go mainstream and sell out. But just because you go mainstream doesn't mean you can't hold it down, look at the 90's. The true essence of Hip-Hop took over the mainstream and became mainstream, that was Hip-Hop you could be proud of. That was Hip-Hop you could defend, now a days all anyone who doesn't know what Hip-Hop is looks at the white boys in the suburbs and labels it Hip-Hop. 50Cent whether we like it or not has become an icon...fucking queer bag. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be.

Artists with true lyrical talent are in the underground, not many can match them. Look at Nas, you can't really call him underground, he's mainstream. But my nigga Nas is holding it down, keeping it real. You have to evolve with some artists, not say they fell off because you don't really understand somethings. Artists fall off, but not Nas. Back in the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was strong going and surviving, now its trash for the most part.

You can listen to this hip-pop all you want, I'm not taking any part in that. I'm not gonna support it, I'll listen to it while I'm dancing with some chick rubbing her ass on my cock. But I won't listen to it in my car, in my home or on the train. I won't have that poison in my ear unless I'm in a club dancing with some chick. Even if I'm in the car with my girl, there's no radio play ever...all you'd hear is Wu-Tang, Killarmy, Nas, Pharoe Monch, KRS One, and anyone else who makes real music.

And fuck how many units you move, it's not how much you sell. Your fanbase could be a bunch of 15 year olds thinking they're cool. It's not how many people you listen to, it's WHO listens to you - GZA.

Can you honestly call all that shit out there Hip-Hop? You know what good music sounds like, after all this is a Wu-Tang forum, but you still go with the masses and conform to the new movement, the hip-pop movement. Every real Hip-Hop head I meet is cool because it's great to still see cats like that around. But when I see people pumping 50Cent and Young Cheesy, I wonder sometimes...wtf is wrong with them. To end this long ass post, heres the wise words of KRS One;

Rap is what you do, Hip-Hop is what you live.

If you're a Hip-Hop head, you live it and you live in it and Hip-Hop lives in you.


PEACE.
completely on point, no doubt. Don't worry about these herb ass niggas man, they just trying to take you off point, you hit the nail on the head. And if anyone disagrees then you either: 1. Want to argue 2. Like a commercial watered down brand of music that is playing on your radios constantly, and don't like it when people call that out.

ThaHed
10-17-2005, 07:01 PM
To me, there is no such thing. I mean, Hip-Hop started out as party music and slowly evolved to other sub-genres. I'll listen to crunk, NYC, westcoast, Houston, and any other rap that I think is hot. What annoys me are these backpackers who think they know what real and fake is. Would you all listen to Mos Def or Little Brother when you're out in a club? I doubt it. Stop with the generalizations and realize there is no such thing as 'real' Hip-Hop.
truth

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
10-17-2005, 07:02 PM
how is the underground real huh? plzz tell me. there are wack ppl in the underground too ya know? just as wack as these "garbage" mainstream rappers. so how could underground be real when there are trash in the undergroud too?
there's trash in everything there is. But a high percentage of underground material keeps it true to that grimey sound that was heard when Hip Hop reached its peak. That's the difference between underground material and most mainstream shit. Most mainstream shit was made without thought or substance and is purely on exploitation. We're the first generation to create music without basically A HEART and have it be mainstream

OnlyBuilt4PuertoRicanLinx
10-17-2005, 07:04 PM
These days what people consider Hip-Hop is not Hip-Hop...it's hip-pop. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be. Hip-Hop has been commercialised and transformed into club bangers and party music. I remember when Hip-Hop was raw and just flat out ill, it still is but you gotta find it. All you hear on the radio, and almost all the music videos you see on TV is these days is garbage.

Hip-Hop was made by the hungry, so it's not so much a suprise that a lot of these artists go mainstream and sell out. But just because you go mainstream doesn't mean you can't hold it down, look at the 90's. The true essence of Hip-Hop took over the mainstream and became mainstream, that was Hip-Hop you could be proud of. That was Hip-Hop you could defend, now a days all anyone who doesn't know what Hip-Hop is looks at the white boys in the suburbs and labels it Hip-Hop. 50Cent whether we like it or not has become an icon...fucking queer bag. Hip-Hop is not what it used to be.

Artists with true lyrical talent are in the underground, not many can match them. Look at Nas, you can't really call him underground, he's mainstream. But my nigga Nas is holding it down, keeping it real. You have to evolve with some artists, not say they fell off because you don't really understand somethings. Artists fall off, but not Nas. Back in the 80's and 90's, Hip-Hop was strong going and surviving, now its trash for the most part.

You can listen to this hip-pop all you want, I'm not taking any part in that. I'm not gonna support it, I'll listen to it while I'm dancing with some chick rubbing her ass on my cock. But I won't listen to it in my car, in my home or on the train. I won't have that poison in my ear unless I'm in a club dancing with some chick. Even if I'm in the car with my girl, there's no radio play ever...all you'd hear is Wu-Tang, Killarmy, Nas, Pharoe Monch, KRS One, and anyone else who makes real music.

And fuck how many units you move, it's not how much you sell. Your fanbase could be a bunch of 15 year olds thinking they're cool. It's not how many people you listen to, it's WHO listens to you - GZA.

Can you honestly call all that shit out there Hip-Hop? You know what good music sounds like, after all this is a Wu-Tang forum, but you still go with the masses and conform to the new movement, the hip-pop movement. Every real Hip-Hop head I meet is cool because it's great to still see cats like that around. But when I see people pumping 50Cent and Young Cheesy, I wonder sometimes...wtf is wrong with them. To end this long ass post, heres the wise words of KRS One;

Rap is what you do, Hip-Hop is what you live.

If you're a Hip-Hop head, you live it and you live in it and Hip-Hop lives in you.


PEACE.
word up, took da words right out my mouth.

Mixtape Mutt
10-17-2005, 07:09 PM
completely on point, no doubt. Don't worry about these herb ass niggas man, they just trying to take you off point, you hit the nail on the head. And if anyone disagrees then you either: 1. Want to argue 2. Like a commercial watered down brand of music that is playing on your radios constantly, and don't like it when people call that out.
PEACE GOD, finally some real feedback, from someone who knows what they speak. PEACE GOD.

Mixtape Mutt
10-17-2005, 07:10 PM
Listening to that KRS One interview/speach/lecture, pretty tough. KRS still has it.

Frank Drebin
10-17-2005, 07:12 PM
I dont see hip hop as dead or as dying. 50cent nelly all those fucks are doing pop. It aint hip hop. Theres still alot of artists doing hip hop. Wu and all its affiliates, Nas, Planet Asia, theres so many. 50Cent and those bitches arent killing hip hop they killing the pop charts. Their music doesnt effect me doesnt register to me. Just cause you can spray graf on a wall or crip walk or wear gangsta ass clothes dont make you hip hop. Just cause you rocking mean ice dont make you hip hop. Streetlife said it "just because you out in the club you aint thug....bad grammer dont make you thug." Hip hop is that shit that makes me and probably makes everyone else in these forums feel that certain feeling, like the first time you stick ya dick in the pussy hip hop is that feeling of ohhhhhh shit!

MaShPG
10-17-2005, 07:30 PM
damn. i wrote a damn good essay about what hip hop means to me and posted it up on here earlier, but it didn't get many replies. i guess people rather argue about which race is better than discuss the meaning of hip hop. oh well, i'll repost the essay. i want a lot of you (especially mixtape mutt, cause i think we share the same ideas) to read it

Behind every great movement, there is great music. In between the late sixties and late eighties, there was a cultural movement going on in New York City. It started in the South Bronx, and is now international. This movement was for the forgotten children, the ones the government didnít care about. This movement was known as Hip Hop. It was used as a form of self-expression and individuality and still is today. Hip Hop was founded my people such as DJ Kool Herc, Afrikaa Bambaata, Grandmaster Flash, Kurtis Blow, Super Rockiní Mr. Magic, the Fearless Four, Coke La Rock, and many others. It started out with Herc spinning records at a back-to-school party on 1520 Sedgewick Avenue in the Bronx (Jenkins and others 19). It caught on and people started to rap in parks, school, everywhere. Before long, Hip Hop was everywhere. Hip Hop is more than music, it is a culture, a way of living. Hip Hop had a huge impact on the world and it changed the way people expressed themselves. It is probably the most misunderstood movement and does not get enough credit for shaping the personalities of our youth. Well it does get some credit, the negative credit. In the Golden Age of Hip Hop, it did get some positive recognition. Edward Koch, the mayor of New York City at the time, and also a person with the reputation of a blatant racist, proclaimed May 3, 1985 ďRap Music DayĒ (Jenkins and others 21). Koch, later contradicted his award by attacking graffiti, one of the main elements of Hip Hop.






Now, in the modern age, Hip Hop has broken off into subgenres, and the messages of Hip Hop have decayed, with songs about material things or songs degrading women. It is important for the public to understand the difference between Hip Hop and Rap. Hip Hop is universal now, and itís easy to tell that it had a profound impact on the world. As the classic Hip Hop proverb goes, ďRap is something you do, Hip Hop is something you live!Ē. One of the greatest things about Hip Hop is that it brings many people together, regardless of race, social class or gender through concerts and the love of the art.

Hip Hop unites many different races and ethnic groups. Although Hip Hop was originally a predominately African American culture, it has grown into a culture that anybody and everybody can enjoy and live with an open mind. There are many graffiti artists, emcees, DJís, and breakdancers of different colors. A lot of times, if a person goes to a Hip Hop concert, he or she can meet somebody of the opposite race that they usually wouldnít have met or talked to. Despite the mediaís attempts, race has almost no place in Hip Hop. It is one of the few colors that invites all races and ethnic groups to be members. Hip Hop has helped bring many different people together. They get to a concert and realize they have the same interests. As Ice-T once said, ďRap is really funny, man. But if you donít see that itís funny, it will scare the shit out of you (Chang 331).Ē Sometimes in Hip Hop, race is taken as a joke. There are many comical songs downplaying race, but yet many serious songs speaking on racism. Hip Hop has educated people about other peopleís cultures. A good example of the diversity of Hip Hop, is the actual groups. There have been many successful interracial Hip Hop groups like the Cold Crush Brothers, Company Flow, Comptonís Most Wanted, Cypress Hill,





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Digital Underground, Dilated Peoples, Fearless Four, Jurassic 5, 3rd Bass, and many more. Unlike Hollywood movies that sling stereotypes around, true Hip Hop gives people an insight towards other cultureís views and beliefs. Race is an aspect of Hip Hop that attracts some people, people that donít know many African Americans may find Hip Hop adventurous and exotic. Hip Hop is a means of education for people, they can learn about the real world, a world they wouldnít have learned about if it werenít for Hip Hop. Thatís the beauty of Hip Hop, it breaks down racial barriers. It also brings together people of different social classes.

Although Hip Hop is mainly for and by the urban, lower class people, as of late, many of the upperclass youth has taken an interest to it. There is some intangible quality to Hip Hop that makes it so appealing to people of the upperclass. Even though a lot of Hip Hop songs are about the struggles of being poor, many upperclass people feel they can relate to it. Although their environments and situations are different, the youth goes through a lot of the same things, regardless of whether theyíre rich or poor. They go through school problems, family problems, and social problems. The youth of the classes can also relate to each other because they both share a common neglegence from the government. Itís not that the government doesnít care about the lower class youth, they donít care about the youth in general. Thatís why so many people that listen to Hip Hop can relate to each other, because they feel abandoned.




A poor kid might work a double shift just so he can go to a Hip Hop concert, and then sit next to a rich kid that had his butler drive up there in a Mercedes. Hip Hop is so diverse, there are tons of people devoted to it. And the actual Hip Hop artists are turned into the upperclass. Some make so much money that they end up on the opposite side of their social class. But the true Hip Hop artists, that make music for the love of the art, donít let money change them. As Gary Grice said in the Wu-Tang Manual, ďWe get paid from it, itís about selling records, but itís also an art form (Diggs 213). Upperclass Hip Hop artists have yet to emerge. The main reason for that is because Hip Hop is about the struggle, and most listeners will find it hard to believe in a personís struggle if they are rich. In order to gain respect and sell records, most Hip Hop artists need to pay their dues, survive the struggle. Hip Hop can often be political, a cry for help. When Grandmaster Flash released ďThe MessageĒ it educated a lot of rich people about what poor people were going through. Thatís a main goal of Hip Hop, to educate. Or as KRS-One liked to call it, ďEdutainmentĒ a word that combines Education and Entertainment. Many upperclass youth are eager to learn about the problems lower class people were going through. Hip Hop united classes and let people know we are all the same, just with different environments and situations. Hip Hop had a harder time uniting genders, thanks to itís counterproductive nemesis, Rap.




Gender doesnít have a huge part in Hip Hop. Hip Hop is so accepting that as long as the person is a good emcee, they are respected. There have been many females to make it big in Hip Hop. Lady Pink became a very successful and highly respected graffiti artist (Chang 166). There have also been many talented female emcees such as MC Lyte, Missy Elliot, Roxanne Shante, Salt N Pepa, Jean Grae, and Lauryn Hill, who is considered to be one of the top twenty emcees of all time (Jenkins and others 36). However, Hip Hop is often confused with Rap, a genre that has a bad reputation of degrading women. In order for Hip Hop to start uniting people of different genders, there needs to be a change in Rap. The girls in the Rap videos need to stand up for themselves and need to make it clear that they wonít walk around the set half naked. Those women are making it harder for other women to be successful in the Hip Hop world. Women like Lil Kim need to refuse to keep being treated like objects and portrayed as prostitutes. The women in Rap videos standing up for themselves is unlikely to happen. As the Wu-Tang Clan put it, ďCash Rules Everything Around MeĒ (Wu-Tang Clan). These women are getting so much money to degrade themselves, that it is hard to turn down. They need to choose their dignity over their material needs and take a step forward for Hip Hop. Hip Hop cannot evolve without bringing itís evil subgenre, Rap, along with it. Still, female Hip Hop artists receive as much respect as men if they are talented. There are many female Hip Hop listeners too, and they too are treated with respect at concerts and gatherings.

There are many stereotypes about females and lots of people believe them. But Hip Hop is in the direction of breaking down those stereotypes and taken a step forward to the Hip Hop culture, no, to society. Of course it is harder for female emcees to get respect at first, but if they are talented, then they will eventually achieve it. Hip Hop is given a bad reputation of being degrading to women. But before Hip Hop can change that, the women need to stand up for themselves. Women have fought to gain the same rights as men, and they should be treated the same way too.




It is important for the average person to understand Hip Hop, so they donít ridicule it. In order to understand it, they must first comprehend the difference between Rap and Hip Hop, a rapper and an emcee. As KRS-One puts it in a movie heís featured in, an emcee is a representative for the Hip Hop culture, but a rapper is a representative for corporate interest (The MC: Why We Do It). Rap is stupid music, while Hip Hop is a culture. There are four basic elements of the culture; Emceeing, Deejaying, Breakdancing, and Graffiti Writing. Hip Hop is a way of life. Once the culture educates the public about the difference between the two, it will gain respect as a movement that has a positive effect on the youth of the world.

Hip Hopís future is unknown. Although itís been popular for approximately 25 years, many still consider it a fad. Many music genres have became extinct within time. But Hip Hop has been around for nearly four decades, and itís future seems promising. In order for Hip Hop to improve, it needs to educate the public, achieve independence and separation from Rap, and remain positive. Whatever happens to the people of Hip Hop, will happen to the culture of Hip Hop (Mos Def). Hip Hop has already brought people together regardless of race, social class, or gender. It can still improve on those three things though. Hip Hop is a beautiful culture, and if it patches up some holes, it has the power to do anything.

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
10-17-2005, 07:31 PM
In one aspect I agree with bone. If you are part of a sub-genre of rap that is labelled "real" doesn't mean shit. There isn't any real hip hop. It all bears down to whether the artist stays true to himself and his talent.



Where I disagree with bone is that all rappers on earth would sell out there integrity given the chance to be famous. This simply isn't the case. Of course money is involved but Hip Hop is an art form aswell as a culture, and art is about expression and communication on a deeper level. Not every rapper wants to or is able to achieve this, but some do. Also the effects of their music is completely personal to the listener and varies widely, music is subjective. When I listen to dope music I get the same vibe as seeing some awe inspiring graff, thatís when I know its hitting me past the superficial.



I feel sorry for those that haven't experience this, get caught up in bullshit, are cynics or have lost that connection with there own souls. I don't believe these people to be wrong or not real. There just missing out.

Bungle
10-17-2005, 07:39 PM
"real hip hop" is a term used to describe the boom bap sound of the early 90's, most rappers had to lie to be "real". the real part, comes from whats being played in the streets not what u hear all the time on the radio, only thing is 2pac was real, biggie was real yet they had mad love on a commercial level. "real" hip hop, to me anyway, is when the rapper can turn round & say "yeah, every single word on my songs are my truth, no lies" but not many can, we all exagerate, why should rappers be any different ??

but to me, it stops being real when its specifically designed to be poppy or have commercial success and the rapper dont even like half of his/her own album, real is when "i dont give a fuck if i sell 10 cdr's of my shit, or i get signed and sell 2 million, dont make a difference to me"..........

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
10-17-2005, 07:43 PM
if you think 2pac was real then i'm sorry lol 2pac was a illusion, he never did those things he talked about on his records until he blew up

Bungle
10-17-2005, 07:46 PM
alright then fuck 2pac, take his ass out the equasion.....

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
10-17-2005, 07:47 PM
^ same with biggie, he had a stable home that had money when he was a kid

snapple
10-17-2005, 07:57 PM
fake hiphop is shit like young jeezy, people who exploit the rap game to make money and have no skills at all...

Create
10-17-2005, 08:07 PM
I Never Liked Tupac

For The Simple Fact That He Was Mad Contradictive

koncretegorilla
10-18-2005, 12:10 AM
Yo Wu forever sahn... yall mafuccas kno dey changed the whole industry game, peep most cats nowaday tryna drop metophors n multiverses (5% insight).
Knowin too well that wu helped elevate the level, at which rappers today seem stuck for tryna reach.. ya'mean.
Im past my 30's yo, so i done heard my share of biters n perpetrators jumpin off mad wu influences over the decade.
Fairs fair if u sayin NWA n the whole westcoast drive made this form of expression what it is today, but on the real, whoeva uses that worn-down l.a. style, fails to recoup the glory of days long passed.. therefore almost forcing a rapper to do they knowledge n not just spit about :Hoes/Money/Drinkin/Smokin/Killin/Ridin'
Yall cant say you aint noticed such change within the structure, but then i guess its the hunger of the crowd, who make the change FOR us/them (artists) by purchasing LP's with an inclination of intellect.


Thus as a result, life imitating art is wrong, cos art mos definitely imitates life..
That what goes around, is sure to come around..
Everything we once thought was old, is now new again..

^^ examples of "art imitating life" (lol) ^^

midGet
10-18-2005, 05:23 AM
if you think 2pac was real then i'm sorry lol 2pac was a illusion, he never did those things he talked about on his records until he blew up

he never said he did those things, in many interviews he said he ain't did them, he was hangin' out with ppl who did all this....he was something like a spectator....and it doesn't mean he was wack or something, his lyrics are deep and poetic.....don't hate on 2pac.

Bungle
10-18-2005, 10:58 AM
^ same with biggie, he had a stable home that had money when he was a kid
does that mean then that he couldnt possibly have done any of the shit he talks about ?? does that also mean that 2pac couldnt have done any of the shit he talks about ?? u people act like u were physically there with them growing up....

CrunchyBlack
10-18-2005, 11:13 AM
cash money is an army.

Jabba Jaw
10-18-2005, 11:30 AM
to me real hip hop is all down to lyricism
i listen to the lyrics a lot more than the beat
it dont matter how bangin the beat is if the rapper simply cant spit i juss cant feel it
i cant fuck with these follow the leader rappers just doin the same thing as the next guy.
if i can put a tape on n feel emotion n passion in the lyrics then ima listen
i aint gonna pay £15 for a CD with some rapper who talks about the same shit in every song
if its original n the rapper has something more than money gunz drugz to offer then ima buy it

nnnnnnnnnaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhmean!!!!!!!!!!!

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
10-18-2005, 11:49 AM
does that mean then that he couldnt possibly have done any of the shit he talks about ?? does that also mean that 2pac couldnt have done any of the shit he talks about ?? u people act like u were physically there with them growing up....
I am not saying that, but his back ground was stable and middle class. That means he didn't come from a poor and desperate back ground like he sometimes said he did.

oldie
10-18-2005, 02:30 PM
how is the underground real huh? plzz tell me. there are wack ppl in the underground too ya know? just as wack as these "garbage" mainstream rappers. so how could underground be real when there are trash in the undergroud too?
cos they is real emcee's. simple as. i aint heard many wack underground emcee's but like i say IMO its real cos they keep it real, like J5 said: "We are no superstars who wanna get rich and forget who we are" - explains IMO real hip-hop

midGet
10-18-2005, 02:34 PM
I am not saying that, but his back ground was stable and middle class. That means he didn't come from a poor and desperate back ground like he sometimes said he did.

wait a sec....I thought Biggie was dealin' on the streets to feed his daughter }:|

we all know what 2pac had to live thru so I definitely wouldn't say he wasn't real or something.

Bone Collecta
10-18-2005, 03:28 PM
cos they is real emcee's. simple as. i aint heard many wack underground emcee's but like i say IMO its real cos they keep it real, like J5 said: "We are no superstars who wanna get rich and forget who we are" - explains IMO real hip-hop
thats bullshit. you dont know wat ur talking about so stop. u obviously didnt even read the rest of the post. smh go away

Fr@z
10-18-2005, 03:43 PM
"real" hip hop is a term used by internet nerds.

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
10-18-2005, 04:56 PM
cash money is an army.
better yet a navy nigga yeah

Create
10-18-2005, 06:57 PM
Better Yet The Marines ^^

koncretegorilla
10-20-2005, 05:16 AM
fuc hip hop, period. Yall big dumby's, blast that country n western 1nce ina while tho'.. yeehaw




Nelly for President