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View Full Version : Dude dark bitches are the shit, fuck all that rap.


TSA
02-18-2011, 12:14 PM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Xgt-HQVP8O8/TR-dOxYOiaI/AAAAAAAAACM/uhErwMHATgE/s1600/300_onweagba1.jpg
http://www.hautefashionafrica.com/wp-content/gallery/oluchi-orlandi/07_oonweagba_17.jpg


http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/swimsuit/image/2007/07_oonweagba_02.jpg


dude for real. I've always been into darker girls, 1% most underrated group in america cause you fags like bitches that look like bone thugs.
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/gallery/stills3/qdig-files/converted-images/oluchi-onweagba-061130/med_oluchi-onweagba-1.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lsgHbQ2sDYw/TPaveXqeBKI/AAAAAAAABKc/iiXzCVzmnz8/s320/vlcsnap-2010-12-01-15h25m01s36.png



im not talking Gabby union dark, which isn't even dark, it's normal skinned
http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/gabrielle-union/pictures/gabrielle-union-picture-6.jpg
(there's yellow, light skinned, normal, dark, jet black zulu bitch)


im talking about the jet black zulu bitches nigga. not saying gabby union owns all hoes, just make her 2 shades darker and she'll be finer
look at at the whore Chanel Staxx's skin bruh
http://www.spankwire.com/Pinkyxxx-chanel-staxxx/video246911/
shit is a work of art.

TSA
02-18-2011, 12:18 PM
http://pics.youjizz.com/media1/spankwire.busty_ebony_vanessa_blue_1bgadnjgfsm.flv-1.jpg
http://www.bigboobcam.com/Tour/1_Starlet_Of_The_Week/Vanessa_Blue/1Phat_Ass/VanessaBlue_PhatAssTits1.jpg

INF
02-18-2011, 12:59 PM
http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/d/DJ_Kay_Slay/sq-kay-slay-much-col.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
02-18-2011, 02:58 PM
ya think?

black is beautiful

SKAMPOE
02-18-2011, 03:03 PM
http://www.picrandom.com/images/2ahlll.gif

CEITEDMOFO
02-18-2011, 03:12 PM
NA HELL NO, OVER HERE IN THE EASTCOAST NONE OF MY PEOPLES (SPANISH AND BLACK)

WILL FUCK WIT A DARK SKIN CHICK LIKE THAT ROFL

LIGHT SKIN BOOTY IS RIGHT SKIN BOOTY
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2364/faty.jpg

LoTec
02-18-2011, 11:48 PM
Chanel Staxx Im gonna have to remember that name, damn.

LORD NOSE
02-19-2011, 12:09 AM
dude for real. I've always been into darker girls, 1% most underrated group in america cause you fags like bitches that look like bone thugs.



im not talking Gabby union dark, which isn't even dark, it's normal skinned

(there's yellow, light skinned, normal, dark, jet black zulu bitch)


im talking about the jet black zulu bitches nigga. not saying gabby union owns all hoes, just make her 2 shades darker and she'll be finer
look at at the whore Chanel Staxx's skin bruh
http://www.spankwire.com/Pinkyxxx-chanel-staxxx/video246911/
shit is a work of art.




shudup son















http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6321/bria20myles20gym.jpg

CharlesJones
02-19-2011, 10:11 AM
Lightskin black women are the best. Fuck them darkskin black women. Darkskin black women can't even compete with lightskin black women. Why you think so many black men mess with more lightskin black women than darkskin black women? I love lightskin actresses LisaRaye, Lauren London, Antonique Smith, Demetria McKinney, Kiely Williams, Mari Morrow, Delicious who was on Flavor Flav's reality show, r&b singer Sheila E.

16th_Chamber
02-19-2011, 04:56 PM
darkskin black women look gross as fuck. purple pussy is nasty.

BLACK BART SIMPSON
02-20-2011, 12:28 PM
spanish biddies ova urr thang lol

CEITEDMOFO
02-20-2011, 12:38 PM
shudup son



















http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6321/bria20myles20gym.jpg

YEA IF SHES DARK SHE GOTTA HAVE ASS LIKE FOR Me ^O^

TSA
02-21-2011, 01:25 AM
shudup son



















http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/6321/bria20myles20gym.jpg



NA HELL NO, OVER HERE IN THE EASTCOAST NONE OF MY PEOPLES (SPANISH AND BLACK)

WILL FUCK WIT A DARK SKIN CHICK LIKE THAT ROFL

LIGHT SKIN BOOTY IS RIGHT SKIN BOOTY
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/2364/faty.jpg
cause ya'll niggas are lame as fuck and local
That why braz is dressed like 1992




i feel bad for black american men cause their standards are fucked up and their breeding fat yellow people with breast, developmental disabilities and ugly clothing
It's like yeah i'll fuck a 300 pound slab of white ape but if you bring dark as gabrelle union around me im done

lol, and you fags need to stop wearing 'gucci' and making that shit cheap.
and stop coming to the club

lol, dude for real. Coogi and shit..man...wtf dude, lol

TSA
02-21-2011, 01:44 AM
omo, make una bring una paddy for naija and see the way women just dey form pass my nigga



http://www.nguoilanhdao.vn/Modules/CMS/Upload/4/2007_7_15/oonweagba_15.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3001/2816178531_65f80d7972.jpg?v=0
http://www.jamati.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/nnenna21.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_u3lFqBksmrE/S3uzFjhViAI/AAAAAAAAbVs/tSIXLgyN57U/s400/agbani2.jpg
http://www.eviplist.com/flyers/49ff5a1f4ad67.jpg
http://gorgeousblackwomen.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/adaora0371.jpg
http://i36.tinypic.com/2v8pklk.jpg
http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/116/l_de40fad96e4b494eb6205f28116ab147.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/115/l_185b15f82ee7455ebe910b2df134a851.jpg
http://cdn.bellanaija.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Genevieve-Nnaji-for-MUD-Cosmetics-Exclusive-Bella-Naija003-600x400.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_NzZ4l3ohP3I/TAMnmIffyBI/AAAAAAAAB-I/3u25Z959J7Y/s1600/hhw17.jpg
http://www.jamati.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/oluchi.jpg
http://www.womenconfidentials.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/agbani.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_v_JOs7LBOIk/TQ8SzquJTaI/AAAAAAAAA1Y/tvRl1unBY10/s400/2001Agbani+Darego+-+Nigeria.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/24esy0i.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs317.snc4/41202_434826521072_703231072_5228493_2250187_n.jpg
http://www.nbc.com/Miss_Universe_2008/images/bios/GH.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/2j2ibh4.jpg
http://adventuresofabeautyqueen.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/ghana2.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs397.snc4/45977_420765122778_568842778_4959537_5128652_n.jpg
http://cdn.bellanaija.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Miss-Universe-2010-Ghana-1.jpg
slim dark bitches with FAT tits and FAT asses that come out of nowhere, with faces that emphasis your wealth nigga THAT's game.
nigga you've never seen bitches like this.
their entire body feels like a giant boob dude. :no:

...a giant boob....but they're not fat....:frusty:

EAGLE EYE
02-21-2011, 01:48 AM
and stop eating up all the cheetos

http://i53.tinypic.com/166d3dg.jpg

TSA
02-21-2011, 01:59 AM
dude for real

SKAMPOE
02-21-2011, 02:03 AM
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5302/ya-cri.399/0_67a24_712b0c42_XL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4403/ya-cri.399/0_67a23_f3f6b357_XL.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5005/ya-cri.399/0_67a25_fa069cb4_XL.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4702/ya-cri.399/0_67a26_38e51f14_XL.jpg



http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4908/ya-cri.39a/0_67a2b_d143be7a_XL.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5504/ya-cri.39a/0_67a29_f4a6dfde_XL.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5604/ya-cri.39a/0_67a2a_a416b261_XL.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6003/ya-cri.39a/0_67a28_a87f4b6_XL.jpg

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5208/ya-cri.39a/0_67a27_76b99348_XL.jpg

TSA
02-21-2011, 02:06 AM
^NAIJA!

7YF5IkwHVLs
dude we've always had the most swagger.

TSA
02-21-2011, 02:10 AM
dude, them niggas in those pics were fresh as FUCK lol
where did you find that shit?

LORD NOSE
02-21-2011, 03:06 AM
shudup son


http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6679/bria.png

TSA
02-21-2011, 03:18 AM
dude what sucks is this isn't even the dark im talking about
im talking about fucking jet BLACK.

what's being posted is just regular black
it's just the perception of 'black' is skewed in america cause ppl think blake griffin is black and everyone else is dark
http://a130.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/l_9a7a9f95e69f34a1642b58cd3ba5c0a1.jpg

http://amakabeautycare.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/dark-skin.jpg?w=200&h=300

http://questionmarkmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/wow_iniEdo.jpg

TSA
02-21-2011, 03:27 AM
http://a130.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/63/l_9a7a9f95e69f34a1642b58cd3ba5c0a1.jpg
this is exactly what my wife is going to look like.

LORD NOSE
02-21-2011, 04:48 AM
shudup son

Bria Miles is darker than all the girls you posted - but to add to the unbeat beautifulness of her skin tone, she's thicker than all the girls you posted

fall back son



them pics Skamp posted is sick as well


do a slide show of them pics to this joint


u_R9fId_Rqo

LORD NOSE
02-21-2011, 04:56 AM
shhhhh

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/336/briamyles3.jpg

TSA
02-21-2011, 04:58 AM
why are you trying to make this a competition? if you appreciate beautiful dark skinned women and i appreciate beautiful dark skinned women, why do you have to use our common interest as a means of 'defeating me' on the internet?

I'm still going to be richer then you lol but that doesn't matter and you shouldn't let it

LORD NOSE
02-21-2011, 06:51 AM
why are you trying to make this a competition?

because



so shudup son


see that ?


i win son

Mumm Ra
02-21-2011, 08:01 AM
see i knew i wasnt crazy
these two pages are better than the 4 pages of trying to post the top 5 baddest white chicks
never heard of bria miles before but....
http://img001.lazygirls.info/people/bria_myles/bria_myles_1410931897_l_JkholFD.sized.jpg
good gawd

NAH001
02-21-2011, 11:53 AM
tg5rjyGWm4k

Olive Oil Goombah
02-21-2011, 12:09 PM
deniro loves tem dark black chicks.

GRANDMASSIVE.
02-22-2011, 02:15 AM
i love all black womem, dark or light

IrOnMaN
02-22-2011, 11:08 AM
http://www.jamati.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/nnenna21.jpg




http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/116/l_de40fad96e4b494eb6205f28116ab147.jpg
http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/115/l_185b15f82ee7455ebe910b2df134a851.jpg






She's pretty!

Fatal Guillotine
02-22-2011, 12:20 PM
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gx2-OWvIX7w/TRo9O87nJnI/AAAAAAAAAlc/_wvvvvzHI_g/s1600/bria-myles.jpg

http://superfreshkids.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/11.jpg?w=480

IrOnMaN
02-22-2011, 12:28 PM
^I don't think she's all that. Her ass is fake as heck. If it real, then her body is out of proportion. She works out her upper body but doesn't bother with her lower body.

It's obvious that she had fat injections.

Fatal Guillotine
02-22-2011, 12:48 PM
i doubt i remember jazzie said something in an interview where she was against the booty injections then again you never know

IrOnMaN
02-22-2011, 12:54 PM
^Lol. Whatever! Buffy the Body stated that her body is real and then later, it was proved that she had injections. Actually, Buffy even stated in an interview back in 2006 that her ass isn't real.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-22-2011, 01:32 PM
This is disgusting. Women should be neither seen nor heard. Allahu akhbar.

IrOnMaN
02-22-2011, 01:49 PM
This is disgusting. Women should be neither seen nor heard. Allahu akhbar.

Would you like to have a "housewife"?

TSA
02-22-2011, 01:54 PM
She's pretty!
she's from my tribe (as are most of the girls i posted), i met her in New York.
we talked a little but the way starving nigerian fags were trying to spit game at her, i didn't wanna come off as one of them, so we joked around till i found out she had a boyfriend. whomp whomp whomp

IrOnMaN
02-22-2011, 02:03 PM
she's from my tribe (as are most of the girls i posted), i met her in New York.
we talked a little but the way starving nigerian fags were trying to spit game at her, i didn't wanna come off as one of them, so we joked around till i found out she had a boyfriend. whomp whomp whomp

Damn!

Believe it or not, I like chicks like her. I know what you're thinking. Why would I want a chick who has a hair cut like me? Well, I don't like weave, ghetto clothing, nor the ghetto ass chick type (even the "educated" ones behave in a ghetto way)! Natural hair is the way to go!

I met a few African chicks in my life and I honestly have to say that they're far more better than the black American ones I always have to encounter. It really has nothing to do with skin tone or booty. It's all about their attitude and their personality. From my experience, most of them don't come off as bitches.

Fatal Guillotine
02-22-2011, 02:04 PM
This is disgusting. Women should be neither seen nor heard. Allahu akhbar.

smh...one of the reasons i have started limiting my time here
cause of posts like this

Fatal Guillotine
02-22-2011, 02:13 PM
she's from my tribe (as are most of the girls i posted), i met her in New York.
we talked a little but the way starving nigerian fags were trying to spit game at her, i didn't wanna come off as one of them, so we joked around till i found out she had a boyfriend. whomp whomp whomp

lol, what tribes she from?

i feel what tectrus is saying, for me it about the conversation and also the mindframe....i like smart cute chicks with thick thighs and dimples..the thing with chicks like lastarya like i mention in the temple of black booty thread is that there superficial or either one-dimensional and what i mean by that is usually because a chick has a big ass, that how she values herself and how she perceives herself to be...

IrOnMaN
02-22-2011, 02:51 PM
i feel what tectrus is saying, for me it about the conversation and also the mindframe....i like smart cute chicks with thick thighs and dimples..the thing with chicks like lastarya like i mention in the temple of black booty thread is that there superficial or either one-dimensional and what i mean by that is usually because a chick has a big ass, that how she values herself and how she perceives herself to be...

Exactly! Chicks like that, in my opinion, have no mindframe what's so ever. When they open their mouths, it's all bullshit. They have nothing intelligent to talk about nor say. It's all about weed, drugs, clubs, material things, and other mindless and thoughtless nonsense, but they want to be a nurse. And the worst of it is that they have kids. I feel sorry for them, seriously.

At the end of the day, after all the lust and the hype fades away, she's just a body. I know that sounds harsh but that's reality!

Olive Oil Goombah
02-22-2011, 04:30 PM
i love when girls oil up. it adds length to my weiner

Fatal Guillotine
02-23-2011, 09:43 AM
Exactly! Chicks like that, in my opinion, have no mindframe what's so ever. When they open their mouths, it's all bullshit. They have nothing intelligent to talk about nor say. It's all about weed, drugs, clubs, material things, and other mindless and thoughtless nonsense, but they want to be a nurse. And the worst of it is that they have kids. I feel sorry for them, seriously.

At the end of the day, after all the lust and the hype fades away, she's just a body. I know that sounds harsh but that's reality!

truth

think how the kids going to grow up, if he/she doesnt break the cycle.
you cant party your life away.
i dont know why some women feel to believe because they brought the newest handbag or something, there in a better situation then you, i remember meeting a chick that goes to UCLA and she was bragging about her college, now i listen to her go on about how they teachers can teach, this lead me to ask her numerous questions

such as:

she claims that UCLA has the best teachers which is very opinionated but do you go research the info that's being disperse or taking it as "he's a teacher with a ph.d so i assume he knows what he talking about".


its just the mindset some women have, like when i look at a beautiful chick like whose pattern herself after someone like a Cubana Lust or one of these other video vixens, a smart intelligent dude would embarrass them the only chick i remember having a convo with and was impressed by her wisdom was Tiara, this situation also make me wonder why do some of the women who are intelligent go this route, is it because they know the mindset of some men and know this is what they feed off of?

or is this how they truly value and see themselves

Undiluted Karma
02-23-2011, 09:59 AM
Damn!


I met a few African chicks in my life and I honestly have to say that they're far more better than the black American ones I always have to encounter. It really has nothing to do with skin tone or booty. It's all about their attitude and their personality. From my experience, most of them don't come off as bitches.


this and african diaspora are better in work ethic and soc eco status than afro amer and afro carribeans

diggy
02-23-2011, 11:11 AM
Well, you might look up to them, but they may not necessarily look up to you. It is a little known fact that some Africans look down on AA born in the west and speak very badly of them behind their backs. They have names for AA and a haughty attitude. Don't believe me? Ask TSA what he thinks of AA. He showed what was in his mind in a thread a while ago and it wasn't pleasant. Just keep that in mind.

IrOnMaN
02-23-2011, 01:22 PM
Well, you might look up to them, but they may not necessarily look up to you. It is a little known fact that some Africans look down on AA born in the west and speak very badly of them behind their backs. They have names for AA and a haughty attitude. Don't believe me? Ask TSA what he thinks of AA. He showed what was in his mind in a thread a while ago and it wasn't pleasant. Just keep that in mind.

Hmm. I suspected that.}:|

Undiluted Karma
02-23-2011, 02:00 PM
Well, you might look up to them, but they may not necessarily look up to you. It is a little known fact that some Africans look down on AA born in the west and speak very badly of them behind their backs. They have names for AA and a haughty attitude. Don't believe me? Ask TSA what he thinks of AA. He showed what was in his mind in a thread a while ago and it wasn't pleasant. Just keep that in mind.


im not black so i couldnt give a fuck lol

not justifying but u can see why they think this

Longbongcilvaringz
02-23-2011, 02:09 PM
smh...one of the reasons i have started limiting my time here
cause of posts like this

i thought you were in agreeance with the grand islamic tradition of subjugation and meterialisation of women?

Olive Oil Goombah
02-23-2011, 03:06 PM
ah yes, but TRUE islam doesn't preach taht bateman, and the TRUE muslims .745% practice the peaceful way.

Fatal Guillotine
02-23-2011, 03:37 PM
True

btw i think i said time and time again that i operate on an open-minded and im more spiritual than anything. i studied various religions and its help me as a human being and i think it has help me humble myself........somewhat

TSA
02-24-2011, 01:40 AM
Well, you might look up to them, but they may not necessarily look up to you. It is a little known fact that some Africans look down on AA born in the west and speak very badly of them behind their backs. They have names for AA and a haughty attitude. Don't believe me? Ask TSA what he thinks of AA. He showed what was in his mind in a thread a while ago and it wasn't pleasant. Just keep that in mind.
they're annoying as fuck. even black people know black people are annoying as fuck.

but AA's don't like africans either, or black people, which sucks, cause they're black

so you got a group of black ppl that hate black ppl, and a group of black people that just came from the epicenter of black.

black americans dont like black ppl and africans, and being a black african i find them generally retarded and obnoxious. that's all.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-24-2011, 02:01 AM
ah yes, but TRUE islam doesn't preach taht bateman, and the TRUE muslims .745% practice the peaceful way.

True Islam actually openly preaches that women are property and they are to be controlled by men.

Virgins awaiting those who make it to paradise, two women are said to be worth one man, men can marry (and hold "captive") "two, three or four" wives, women can be exchanged like property, "men are in charge of women", men are encouraged to punish women, males inherit twice what women do etc. etc.

If you have read any of the Koran, you could list more and more examples.

If that guy has actually read the Koran, and thinks it doesn't promote the subjugation of women, he's stupider than Sunny.

If someone is Islamic and doesn't believes in equality of women.... then they're not a good Muslim.

Fatal Guillotine
02-24-2011, 09:55 AM
^^^^lol

Longbongcilvaringz
02-24-2011, 10:27 AM
I think it's fucked up that you find the codified subjugation of women by a religion which has 1.5 billion followers funny.

But you are one of these "i don't subscribe to a particular religion, but i'm mad spiritual, i studied the scriptures and took jewels" kind of faggits, so it's not really surprising that you have no moral fiber.

Fatal Guillotine
02-24-2011, 11:03 AM
stop thinking you can profile me from the few posts I've made in general chat. you dont know what i know, and if you're going to make an assumption please supply us with facts not something you view on youtube or CNN

Fatal Guillotine
02-24-2011, 11:06 AM
I think it's fucked up that you find the codified subjugation of women by a religion which has 1.5 billion followers funny.

But you are one of these "i don't subscribe to a particular religion, but i'm mad spiritual, i studied the scriptures and took jewels" kind of faggits, so it's not really surprising that you have no moral fiber.


wrong
where in my post did i say this?

Queen Of Poetry
02-24-2011, 11:11 AM
Finally a thread about black women and their beauty!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally finally finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9:|69:|69:|69:|69:|69:|69:|6

Fatal Guillotine
02-24-2011, 11:13 AM
Finally a thread about black women and their beauty!!!!!!!!!!!! Finally finally finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9:|69:|69:|69:|69:|69:|69:|6

hey sweetheart

Queen Of Poetry
02-24-2011, 11:18 AM
hey sweetheart


Peace peace :*

BRONZBODY
02-24-2011, 12:29 PM
aint nothing better!!!!


surprised Charles Jones hasn't been in here yet,


oh these black women are very pretty, id suck their toes if they weren't so ignorant and have six kids and on welfare HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Longbongcilvaringz
02-24-2011, 12:41 PM
stop thinking you can profile me from the few posts I've made in general chat. you dont know what i know, and if you're going to make an assumption please supply us with facts not something you view on youtube or CNN

Not wanting to derail this thread, but i'm solely going on what you've posted in this thread.

You've mentioned Islam before, which is why i inquired as to whether you agreed with it's "teachings" on gender.

Then you laughed when i outlined how Islam promoted the slavery of women, again, i just commented on you finding that humorous.

You also stated you have read several religious texts, and taken lessons from them. I paraphrased that comment.

The only time i pigeonholed you unfairly was when i called you a faggit, which to be fair was purely speculative on my part.

wrong
where in my post did i say this?

Around 1.5 billion people identify themselves as Muslim. Obvious this figure will never be that accurate, but you'll need to provide me some with contrary evidence that it is significantly different before i can accept that i am wrong.

There is codified (systematically laid out in the Koran) subjugation of women in Islam, do you need to to start listing off passages? If you have actually read it that isn't necessary, unless you thought the parts about trading women as property and treating them as such didn't promote subjugation...

TSA
02-24-2011, 02:35 PM
and even if islam doesn't say WOMEN ARE SLAVES, the fact that its so meticulous in setting a 'difference' between men and women will always naturally cause one group to undermine the other.

once you decide to emphasis the differences between two things, the next question that a healty human mind will ask is 'which is better'. Next the views and treatment of the 'better' in comparison to the 'worst' will always favor the better at the expense of the worst.


If you tell people that group A sits infront of the bus and group B sits in the back with groups based on the thickness of elbow skin, then leave a member of group B in charge of maintaining the bus, don't be surprise if group A's side gets shittier and shittier over time and conflict breaks out between man made groups, let alone full blown genders and shit.





now to avoid conflict, islam set to 'protect' women. Sadly these protections amount to "shut the fuck up and act like you're not there and we won't have any problems hoe"

and cuts any avenues that have to stand up or fight for themselves. Islam blows, and even when it's not trying to blow it blows naturally.

TSA
02-24-2011, 02:42 PM
there's also the problem of Arab supremacy in islam, which is worst then white supremacy because white people at least have rule of law and an enlightened system of teaching that is free of religion that you can use to question fucked up shit.


Muslims see non muslims, especially blacks, are free reign for genocide and slavery and it doesn't count as much as killing an arab because they're not muslim.

then the black muslims aren't considered 'real' muslims
and im not talking about the fake black muslims in the NOI and all other wutang religions
im talking about legit ones from muslim countries...they're still not considered 'as muslim' as arabs, even if the arabs aren't muslim.



there's this ignorant nationalist totem pole of muslimness where saudis are the most holy and blacks are the least.

all of this not done on purpose, but are natual social results a 22 year old nebraskan can see happening but God i guess didn't.

for instance if you tell a people their language is the language of God, to spread the religion you MUST conquer and eliminate other languages. Forcing that language on a people is God's work naturally because you give them the ability to speak to God.

Then you have a situation where ppl with difference dialects, or second language learners are looked down on, and since something as serious as GOD is involved, killed.



it sounds nuts, but it's the african Sahel today. blacks being killed in the name of islam and forced to speak arabic because of carelessly thought out aspects of a poorly thought out religion

Longbongcilvaringz
02-24-2011, 02:54 PM
All religions outline that difference between genders though, they just differ in how crazy they are about it.

Islam is slightly crazier than the judeo-christian shit, but there is still some pretty wild stuff in the Bible and Torah.

Dr. Simon Hurt
02-24-2011, 03:17 PM
I think it's fucked up that you find the codified subjugation of women by a religion which has 1.5 billion followers funny.

But you are one of these "i don't subscribe to a particular religion, but i'm mad spiritual, i studied the scriptures and took jewels" kind of faggits, so it's not really surprising that you have no moral fiber.


hahahahahaha

TSA
02-24-2011, 03:41 PM
LMAO at the book of jewels.

and pat, you're right but islam tells men and women how the dress, how they shit, how they eat, HOW they pray, how many times, how they greet each other, how they sleep, how they shave, how they bath, how walk on the street and so forth.



the wild stuff in the christian and jewish traditions can be ignored because their religions aren't trying operate life for you as much.

so with this islam has more room to make more differences and none are ever in the favor of the woman so the inequality is always going to be deeper. plus arabs are assholes in general, non arab muslims tend to be cooler then arab ones because arabs are dickheads, but a religion that essentially aims to arabize everyone is going to make everyone dicker and dicker as it spreads.

Fatal Guillotine
02-24-2011, 04:18 PM
in regards to batemans comments

True Islam actually openly preaches that women are property and they are to be controlled by men.

No this is absolutely not true.

men can marry (and hold "captive") "two, three or four" wives

Monogamy is the rule and polygamy is only the exception. In terms of birth rates, men and women are equal in number. But it happens time and time again in history that the number of men decreases in society. How then can a healthy relationship between the two sexes be established?

The choice is not between monogamy and polygamy, but rather, between the lawful polygamy of Islam or the illicit polygamy of non-Islamic peoples.

God permits Muslim men to marry up to 4 women. The Quran says:

If you fear that you cannot treat orphans with fairness, then you may marry such women (widowed) as seem good to you: two, three or four of them. But if you fear that you cannot do justice, marry one only. – Al Qur’an, 4:3

This verse was revealed after the battle of Uhud, where the women of Medina were left widowed with orphaned children. So the question arose as to how this social problem can be solved. God revealed this verse saying that a man can marry up to four women while keeping the orphaned children under his care. Therefore it seems that this verse is only temporary in effect. The truth is quite the contrary. The Quran is universal and as such it describes eternal realities under the band of temporal issues. This verse thus applies whenever women outnumber men in society. And it is a fact that this situation is prevalent throughout history. This commandment is another proof of God's omniscience.

Records show that men and women are equal in number. The morality of men is however higher than women. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

“In general, the risk of death at any given age is less for females than for males.” Encyclopedia Britannica (1984), vol. 7, p. 3

This higher number of women is traced to the following causes:

1. Wars. Most casualties in wars are men. In the First World War about 8 million soldiers were killed. In the Second World War, about 60 million people were either killed or maimed for life. In the Iraq-Iran war alone 82,000 Iranian women and about 100,000 Iraqi women were widowed. All during a time span of ten years.

2. Imprisonment. In the US alone, no less than 1,300,000 people are convicted daily. 97% of whom are men who are obliged to serve lengthy prison sentences.

3. Industrialization. In 1967, a total of 175,000 people died as the result of accidents in fifty different countries due mainly to the operation of heavy machinery.

Women through the ages continue to outnumber men. This applies to even the most developed countries. In 1967, there were nearly 7,100,000 more women than men. This means that if every single man in America got married, 7,100,000 women would be left without husbands.

Pls see the below data which applies to several western countries, showing the ratio of men to women.

Country Male Female

Austria 47.7% 52.93%

Bunna 48.81 51.19

Germany 48.02 51.89

France 48.99 51.01

Italy 48.89 51.01

Poland 48.61 51.30

Spain 48.94 51.06

Switzerland 48.67 51.33

Soviet Union 46.59 53.03

United States 48.58 51.42


Encyclopedia Britannica (1984).

Taking the above into consideration, what is the solution to this problem?

In the old Hindu society, a widow would burn herself to death to eliminate her problems. In today's western society, a women refuses to become a second wife but accepts to become one man or more's mistress. During the Second World War, permissiveness became so prevalent in Western societies that the following words were seen outside the houses of widowed women:

"Wanted: A Guest for the Evening”

Now the question arises as to whether this has become the definition of a woman's worth.

Polygamy has never been lawful to satisfy man's sexual desires. It is a practical solution to a social problem that has been and will always be prevalent.



women can be exchanged like property

The willingness on the woman's part is a must in an Islamic marriage. The Prophet Muhammad said “an unmarried girl should not be married until her permission has been taken” (AI-Bukhari, Sahih)


"men are in charge of women", men are encouraged to punish women

Islam Does not degrade Women

Contrary to the common misconception, Islam does not degrade women. It gives the utmost respect to women.

The following traditions of the Prophet indicate the elevated function of woman in Islam:

“Women are half of men.

Fear God in respect of women.

“Heaven lies beneath the feet of mothers.” (That is, those who serve their mothers well are deserving of Paradise.)

“The best among you is he who is best for his family. For my family, I am the best of all of you.”

“The most perfect man of religion is one who excels in character. The best among you is he who gives the best treatment to his womenfolk.”

These traditions makes it clear that, although males and females differ from one another biologically, they are equal in terms of human status. No distinction is made between women and men as regards their respective rights.

Man and woman in the eyes of Islam then are not the duplicates of one another, but the complements. This concept permits the shortcomings of one sex to be compensated for by the strengths of the other. This is all to the good if they are to be lifetime companions.

It is a fact that women in general are not physically as strong as men, but their physical weakness in no way implies their inferiority to men. The eyes are the most delicate parts of our body, while the nails by comparison are extremely hard. That does not mean that the nails are superior to the eyes.

Just as two different kinds of fruits will differ in colour, taste, shape and texture, without one being superior or inferior to the other, so also do men and women have their different qualities which distinguish the male from the female without there being any question of superiority or inferiority. They are endowed by nature with different capacities so that they may play their respective roles in life with greater ease and effectiveness.

However, in respect of innate talents all individuals, be they men or women, differ from one another. Yet their need for each other is equal. All are of equal value. One is not more important or less important than the other. Similarly when it comes to the establishment of a home and raising of a family, men and women have their separate roles to play. But each is vital. Each is indispensable to the other. And for them to come together, function in unison and live in harmony, there must be mutual respect and a prevailing sense that a difference of biological function does not imply inequality. For the biological division of human beings into male and female is the result of the purposeful planning of our Creator.

In Islam, a woman enjoys the same status as that of a man. But in ancient times, women had come to be considered inferior and were deprived, among other things, of the right to inherit property. Islam for the first time in human history gave them their due legal rights over property. Neither did it distinguish between men and women as regards status, rights and blessings, both in this world and the Hereafter. Both were considered equal participants in the carrying out of the functions of daily living.

Since the earliest ideal phase of Islam, Muslim women have successfully exploited their talents towards the field of education in particular. Homes had become centres of learning. As women performed their role without going outdoors, there is a general impression that Islam has restricted women’s workplace to performing only domestic chores. But this is not the truth. First of all Islam encouraged them to receive education, and then enthused them with a new zeal. Subsequently, they went out to impart this learning to the next generation. Let’s take the instance of the Prophet’s wives, held up as role models for women in Islam. Preserving their femininity, they participated in all kinds of religious and worldly activities. For instance, the Prophet’s wife Aisha, having gained full knowledge of Islam from the Prophet, was able, after the death of the Prophet, to perform the task of teacher and guide to the Muslim community for a period of about fifty years. Abdullah ibn Abbas, a Companion of great stature, and one of the best commentators of the Qur’an, was one of Aisha’s pupils.

As modern day research tells us women are better with words than men. It is perhaps this reason why they are able to run educational institutions successfully. Besides this there may be many such workplaces where women are able to exploit their full potential. Since earliest days of Islam we find Muslim women working outdoors. Umm Dahdah, wife of a Companion of the Prophet worked in her orchard. Khadija, Prophet’s wife conducted business, to cite only a few of such examples. However, Islam sets great value on the proper management of home. It is because home is the most important unit of any society. Home is the centre of preparing succeeding generations. Thus neglecting home front will amount to neglecting the next generation, which in turn will result in a great national loss.

I would say that Islam grants even more respect to women than to men. According to one Hadith a man once came to the Prophet and asked him who rightfully deserved the best treatment from him.

“Your mother,” said the Prophet. “Who’s next?” asked the man. “Your mother.” “Who comes next?” the man asked again. The Prophet again replied, “Your mother.” “Who is after that?” insisted the man. “Your father,” said the Prophet.

Another example concerns Hajra, the Prophet Abraham’s wife. Hajj, regarded as the greatest form of worship in Islam, entails the performance of Sai, one of the main rites of the Hajj. This is accomplished by running back and forth seven times between Safa and Marwah, two hillocks near the Kaba. This running, enjoined upon every pilgrim, be they rich or poor, literate or illiterate, kings or commoners, is in imitation of the desperate quest of Hajra, Abraham’s wife, for water to quench the thirst of her crying infant, four thousand years ago. The performance of this rite is a lesson in struggling for the cause of God. It is of the utmost significance that this was an act performed by a woman. Perhaps there could be no better demonstration of a woman’s greatness than God’s command to all men, literally to follow in her footsteps.

We can see that the principle implied by the expression ‘ladies first’ in modern times had already been established in Islam at the very outset.


Islam does not hold Women to be Inferior to Men


There is a common belief that Islam gives a higher status to men in comparison to women. This is misconception in the truest sense of the word.

Contrary to the common misconception that Islam holds men superior to women, Islam actually gives equal status to women as that of men. The Quran says:

“You are members, one of another.” (3:195)

This means that there is no difference between the two as regards status, rights and blessings both in this world and in the Hereafter.

The following Hadith gives an apt description of the role of women:

Men and women are two equal halves of a single unit. (Al Tirmizi)

We see that both the sacred scriptures of Islam make it clear that neither sex is inferior or superior to the other. However, studies in biology and psychology show that the sexes are different in nature, each being designed for a different purpose. So, the Islamic maxim runs:

Equal in respect, but different in role.

Each being equal has a different sphere of action. That is, in making their contribution to social activity, the men undertake whatever is harder, while the women deal with whatever is lighter.

The Quran says that men are in charge of, that is, they are ‘maintainers’ of women (4:34). This leads to a common misconception that Islam gives a higher status to men then women. According to this verse of the Quran, it does not mean that men have a distinctive status over women – being maintainers of women has never been intended as a form of discriminatory treatment, it rather concerns the practical management of the home, for which the man is held responsible. However, this does not mean that a woman will never be allowed to shoulder these responsibilities. If she finds that she can bear this burden, no objection will be raised from any quarter. One example of this can be found in the Quran with reference to the people of Sheba. They lived in Yemen. The famous dam of Marib made their country very prosperous and enabled it to attain a high degree of civilization. The Quran tells us that they were ruled by a woman (27:23) without disapproving of her rule. Bilqis, the Queen of Sheba was very wise and sagacious, even more so than the men in her court. She did not want to embroil her country in war, while the men advised her to confront her enemies, namely, Solomon’s army. Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:

“In Bilqis we have a picture of womanhood, gentle, prudent, and able to tame the wilder passions of her subjects.”

It is an accepted principle with the commentators of the Quran that when the Quran reports something without any disapproval, that means that has been approved of by the Quran.

So when we look at this incident in the light of the Quran, we find the status of woman even higher than that of men. A woman is in charge of men and she has shouldered this responsibility with greater efficacy.

Thus the example of the Queen of Sheba having found mention in the Quran shows that rulership is not man’s monopoly. A woman can be a ‘qawwam’ over a man and the Quran has itself testified to it.

In fact, in the early period of Islam, both the sexes were fully active in different fields of life, from housework to agriculture and horticulture; and from worship in the mosque to the battleground. Everywhere women were visible and active. Gradually there came about a division of labour, which is justifiable not only biologically and physiologically, but also in terms of the ensuing social benefits. One such important benefit is that they can see each other’s lives objectively, without that personal involvement which tends to cloud their judgment and lead to a damaging emotionalism. They are better able to counsel each other coolly and wisely, to give moral support at critical moments, and to offer the daily encouragement with which every successful union should be marked.

In Islamic history, there are many examples of women giving invaluable help to their husbands in critical situations. One of the most notable was Khadijah, the wife of the Prophet of Islam who successfully brought the Prophet back from a state of fear and trembling to a state of normalcy after his receiving the first divine revelation in the solitude of the Cave of Hira from the Archangel Gabriel. She was able to reassure him that his life was not, as he feared, in danger, as she herself was emotionally detached from the incident. She observed: “God will surely never forsake you. You are kind to your kin; you always help the weak; you take care of whoever crosses your threshold; you solace the weary; you speak the truth.” The reassurance that Khadijah gave to the Prophet of Islam on this occasion was one of the most significant contributions to the furtherance of Islam.

Then it occurred to Khadijah that she had best make enquiries of some learned Christians, who, well versed as they were in the scriptures, were bound to have knowledge of revelation and prophethood. She went first to a rahib (hermit) who lived near Mecca. On seeing her, the priest asked, “O noble lady of the Quraysh, what has brought you here?” Khadijah replied, “I have come here to ask you about Gabriel.” To this the rahib said, “Glory be to God, he is God’s pure angel. He visits prophets: he came to Jesus and Moses.” Then Khadijah went to another Christian called Addas. She put the same question to him, and he too told her that Gabriel was an angel of God, the very same who had been with Moses when God drowned the Pharaoh. He had also come to Jesus, and through him God had helped Jesus.

Then Khadijah hastened to Waraqah ibn Nawfal, a Christian convert who had translated part of the Bible into Arabic. When she had finished telling him of what Muhammad had seen and heard, Waraqah exclaimed, “Holy, holy! By the Master of my soul, if your report be true, O Khadijah, this must be the great spirit who spoke to Moses. This means that Muhammad must be the Prophet of this nation.” On a subsequent visit, Khadijah brought Muhammad to meet Waraqah ibn Nawfal. Muhammad related the events exactly as they had taken place and, when he had finished, Waraqah said, “By the Master of my soul, I swear that you are the same Prophet whose coming was foretold by Jesus, son of Mary.” But then Waraqah sounded a note of warning: “You will be denied and you will be hurt. You will be abused and you will be pursued.” He nevertheless immediately pledged himself to the Prophet: “If I should ever live to see that day, I should surely help you.”

Frank Sobotka
02-24-2011, 04:33 PM
^Actually men are just more susceptible to children's illnesses and women's life expectancy is longer

LoTec
02-24-2011, 04:59 PM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l86q7yRlNW1qcdyyto1_500.jpg

gotta get this shit back on track

TSA
02-24-2011, 06:25 PM
^that's a fucking work of art.
this is they type of shit that makes me wanna get the fuck out of nubraska and go where i'll never see this bitch
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?profile=1&id=100000533933258#!/photo.php?fbid=148745961819867&set=a.154360107925119.33079.100000533933258&theater

again

Queen Of Poetry
02-24-2011, 07:06 PM
Holy fuck me in the ass with the books written in this thread!!!!

SKAMPOE
02-24-2011, 08:16 PM
http://spaceghetto.org/images/dbddv62be.gif

Longbongcilvaringz
02-24-2011, 10:43 PM
Fatal, i'm going to have to go away and get every single passage from the Koran which encourages the subjugation of women and post it in another thread.

If you think the Koran doesn't outline women as worth less than men, you are delusional.

Unfortunately, you introduced a lot of historical nonsense which is irrelevant to what is actually written in Koran, and followed by people in modern society.

I can appreciate it being the reason why these things are in the Koran.... but they have no place in modern society.... yet there are people putting them into practice daily.

EAGLE EYE
02-24-2011, 10:59 PM
http://spaceghetto.org/images/dbddv62be.gif


hahahahah

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 06:53 AM
@bateman bruh please get off it, you keep talking about subjugation does that mean that i have to agree with it....NO

you want to make such posts about islam and the quran and i doubt you read it and its entirety or the hadith. please remember to took TSA thread and try to spend it to some debate. also i understand from your response that you're going to see things YOUR anyway so who cares about my response certainly not you.

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 08:11 AM
According to the teachings of the Holy Qur'an:


Women are:

1. To be free from bondage of slavery. Ch.4:19
2. To be treated kindly. Ch.4:19
3. To be treated with respect. Ch.9:71
4. To be kept in good-fellowship, or "let them go in kindness". Ch. 2:229
5. To be set free in kindness (in cases of divorce) and not to be retained for injury. Ch.2:231

6. To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if her husband fears desertion or rebellion by
her. Ch. 4:35

7. To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if she fears ii-usage or desertion from her
husband. Ch.4:128


* Islam commands justice and kindness towards women:


"O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor
should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty
of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike
a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.4:19 (The Women)

In the above verse, Allah tells the Muslims that they cannot treat women like slaves, but must
act justly with them. The verse enjoins Muslims to treat women kindly and warns them that they
may hate a woman when Allah has “placed abundant good”, in her. Muslims are to be just kind
to women and they must be careful not to underestimate the worth of women because of
imperfections that are made up for by their much greater good traits. Muslims are not to exploit
women, be cruel to them nor take them for granted. These are the commands of Allah to “you
who believe.”

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 08:41 AM
lets take a look at some verse from the quran


Qur’an 4:3 “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth).”

A better translation of the meanings of this verse is:

“And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan ¬girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.” (An-Nisa 4:3)

In Islam a man is allowed to marry up to four women, but unlike the non-Islamic world he is commanded by the One who created him to be just to them, if he is not able to be just to them and give them fair and equal treatment then he should only marry one woman because that will prevent him from doing injustice to them. And Islam bought justice, and the Prophet Muhammad (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) came at a time when women were treated like lowly animals, but Islaam gave them honour, it gave them rights and it bought them justice. So today we see in the West many men having one wife and not only do they not give her fair and kind treatment, they also take mistresses and have affairs for which they are not bound by and commandant to be just and fair.


Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”

A better translation of the meanings of this verse would be:

“Allaah commands you as regards your children's (inheritance); to the male, a portion equal to that of two females; if (there are) only daughters, two or more, their share is two thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is half. For parents, a sixth share of inheritance to each if the deceased left children; if no children, and the parents are the (only) heirs, the mother has a third; if the deceased left brothers or (sisters), the mother has a sixth. (The distribution in all cases is) after the payment of legacies he may have bequeathed or debts. You know not which of them, whether your parents or your children, are nearest to you in benefit, (these fixed shares) are ordained by Allah. And Allah is Ever All Knower, All Wise.” (An-Nisa 4:11)

So the One who created us is All Knowing of what is best for us and is All Wise, and He has informed us of how to divide up the inheritance, and I guess one of the apparent wisdoms of this is that in Islam the man has the responsibility of providing for his family, it is his responsibility to do so, it is not the women’s responsibility, in fact, it is the women’s right that her husband provides for her, with this being the case then it should not be a surprise to find out that a man gets a larger share of the inheritance, should it?


Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]

A better translation of the meanings of this verse would be:

“O you who believe! Approach not as¬-Salaat (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of Janaaba, (i.e. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque), till you wash your whole body. And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum). Truly, Allaah is Ever Oft¬ Pardoning, Oft Forgiving.” (An-Nisa 4:43)

it is telling us to perform our ritual purification after we have had sexual relations with our wives, but this is not something that is unique for men, i.e. that they must perform a ritual purification after sexual relations, for verily, women also have to perform this after they have had sexual relations with their husband. It is interesting to note that in the Jewish teachings they consider the menstruating women filthy and they shun her and do not allow her to eat with them, however, in Islam, our Prophet Muhammad (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) received revelation from Allah whilst he was resting his head on the lap of his wife whilst she was in a state of menstruation.

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

A better translation of the meanings of this verse would be:

“O Prophet! Tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks (veils) all over their bodies (i.e. screen themselves completely except the eyes or one eye to see the way). That will be better, that they should be known (as free respectable women) so as not to be annoyed. And Allah is Ever Oft Forgiving, Most Merciful.” (Al-Ahzab 33:59)

In Islaam both men and women have to cover certain parts of their bodies, and just as men have to grow their beards women have to cover their heads, and this is from the honour that Islam bestows on women by protecting them from the gazes of ogled eyed men, women are not sex objects!

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 08:44 AM
Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands...”

A better translation of the meanings of this verse is:

“And tell the believing women to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.) and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent (like palms of hands or one eye or both eyes for necessity to see the way, or outer dress like veil, gloves, head-cover, apron, etc.), and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna (i.e. their bodies, faces, necks and bosoms, etc.) and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their (Muslim) women (i.e. their sisters in Islaam), or the (female) slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allaah to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful.” (An-Nur 24:31)

Again, like before, in Islaam both men and women have to cover certain parts of their bodies and both men and women have to lower their gazes, and just as men have to grow their beards women have to cover their heads, and this is from the honour that Islaam bestows on women by protecting them from the gazes of ogled eyed men, women are not sex objects!

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 08:47 AM
Sidenote:women are capable of raising a family while being the provider. But these days, most women either choose being the provider OR raising a family.

It is extremely hard on women to work and raise a family, because after 8 hours of work, she comes home to non stop "mommy mommy!!" lol And most women, actually don't want to work, but the pressure of the society these days is that you are defined by your work. While motherhood is seen as women not doing anything.

But in Islam, motherhood is the most important job. And mothers are elevated to a very high level. Islam also does not stop women from working. The Prophet (pbuh)'s first wife Khadija (may Allah be pleased with her) owned her own business. (but she had no kids)

The point in Islam that men are supposed to be the providers is actually a protection and the right of women. The tasks are divided. Men should be in charge of providing and women should be in charge of taking care of family and guarding the home. One job is not less than the other. It's just divided so that the work is done efficiently.

Let's say for example...when you're at work and your manager comes to you and your coworker and says ok you 3d are in charge of research, while your co-worker is in charge of writing up the report. That sounds fair. The task is divided so the most work can get done. But if you manager says 3d you will do research AND write up report, and co-worker will help you write the report..and you are getting paid the same. It's more work for you. If you want to take it on, go for it, but the most efficient is if it's divided evenly.

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 02:55 PM
?

Frank Sobotka
02-25-2011, 03:15 PM
Jesus fucking christ, this dude puts more effort into his posts than I put into my school work.

EAGLE EYE
02-25-2011, 03:16 PM
wshhuvqrh5b5n1Rqlfr3

IrOnMaN
02-25-2011, 03:18 PM
oaBi57yQr3s

100%

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 03:27 PM
Jesus fucking christ, this dude puts more effort into his posts than I put into my school work.

lol

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 03:28 PM
oaBi57yQr3s

100%

whoses creed

IrOnMaN
02-25-2011, 03:31 PM
whoses creed

Please tell me that you're joking?!

EAGLE EYE
02-25-2011, 03:33 PM
worst rock band in history.

its faux rock.

there was good reason why people threw stones at them when on stage.

not water bottles. stones.

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 03:34 PM
i only listen to:

some r&b
Underground rap
classical music
Jazz(coltrane, miles davis, stanley turrentine, dexter gordon)

i only know them (creed) by name

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 03:35 PM
worst rock band in history.

Its faux rock.

there was good reason why people threw stones at them when on stage.

Not water bottles. Stones.

lmao

IrOnMaN
02-25-2011, 03:40 PM
worst rock band in history.

its faux rock.

there was good reason why people threw stones at them when on stage.

not water bottles. stones.

Really? I thought people loved them. Ok. Maybe you know a lot about rock than I do because I don't listen to it that much

Fatal Guillotine
02-25-2011, 03:42 PM
lmao

EAGLE EYE
02-25-2011, 03:43 PM
People who know absolutely nothing about Rock history love them.

40 year old women love them.

The lead singer is runner up for biggest piece of human shit. He wants Bono's throne.

IrOnMaN
02-25-2011, 03:48 PM
People who know absolutely nothing about Rock history love them.



Well, I fall into that category.

EAGLE EYE
02-25-2011, 04:10 PM
this is probably one of my favorite rock albums in my collection

Santana - Abraxas 1970

http://i53.tinypic.com/2lckxgn.jpg


http://hotfile.com/dl/107476516/5e6b625/S_A_1970.zip.html

EAGLE EYE
02-25-2011, 04:32 PM
there is even a 'dark bitch' on the cover

Fatal Guillotine
02-26-2011, 06:57 PM
lol

still waiting on bateman

if your reading this post your accusation in this thread

Longbongcilvaringz
02-27-2011, 01:14 AM
lol, forgot about this thread, the Koran is littered with stuff like this, referencing women as either property or material to be controlled by men.

not to mention that the Koran is dictated to a man, instantly placing women as something to be dealt with by men.

If you only read one of these passages, make it the first one :

"4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."

"4:20 And if ye wish to exchange one wife for another and ye have given unto one of them a sum of money (however great), take nothing from it. Would ye take it by the way of calumny and open wrong ?"

"33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful."

"2:223 Your women are a tilth for you (to cultivate) so go to your tilth as ye will, and send (good deeds) before you for your souls, and fear Allah, and know that ye will (one day) meet Him. Give glad tidings to believers, (O Muhammad). "


"4:3 And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice. "

"4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation). "

"4:19 O ye who believe! It is not lawful for you forcibly to inherit the women (of your deceased kinsmen), nor (that) ye should put constraint upon them that ye may take away a part of that which ye have given them, unless they be guilty of flagrant lewdness."

"4:24 And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise."

"4:11 Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to each of his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents and your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, Wise."

"4:25 And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess. Allah knoweth best (concerning) your faith. Ye (proceed) one from another; so wed them by permission of their folk, and give unto them their portions in kindness, they being honest, not debauched nor of loose conduct. And if when they are honourably married they commit lewdness they shall incur the half of the punishment (prescribed) for free women (in that case). This is for him among you who feareth to commit sin. But to have patience would be better for you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful."

"4 : 8 Except the feeble among men, and the women, and the children, who are unable to devise a plan and are not shown a way."

"4:129 Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so). But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful."

"24:31 And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour, or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed."

"33:30 O ye wives of the Prophet! Whosoever of you committeth manifest lewdness, the punishment for her will be doubled, and that is easy for Allah."

"37:22 (And it is said unto the angels): Assemble those who did wrong, together with their wives and what they used to worship"

"66:10 Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allahand it was said (unto them): Enter the Fire along with those who enter."

"2:187 It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn."

"2:222 They question thee (O Muhammad) concerning menstruation. Say: It is an illness, so let women alone at such times and go not in unto them till they are cleansed. And when they have purified themselves, then go in unto them as Allah hath enjoined upon you. Truly Allah loveth those who turn unto Him, and loveth those who have a care for cleanness."

"2:229 Divorce must be pronounced twice and then (a woman) must be retained in honour or released in kindness. And it is not lawful for you that ye take from women aught of that which ye have given them; except (in the case) when both fear that they may not be able to keep within the limits (imposed by) Allah. And if ye fear that they may not be able to keep the limits of Allah, in that case it is no sin for either of them if the woman ransom herself. These are the limits (imposed by) Allah. Transgress them not. For whoso transgresseth Allah's limits: such are wrong-doers."

"2:230 And if he hath divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she hath wedded another husband. Then if he (the other husband) divorce her it is no sin for both of them that they come together again if they consider that they are able to observe the limits of Allah. These are the limits of Allah. He manifesteth them for people who have knowledge."

"2:282 O ye who believe! When ye contract a debt for a fixed term, record it in writing. Let a scribe record it in writing between you (in terms of) equity. No scribe should refuse to write as Allah hath taught him, so let him write, and let him who incurreth the debt dictate, and let him observe his duty to Allah his Lord, and diminish naught thereof. But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak, or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women"

Longbongcilvaringz
02-27-2011, 01:19 AM
Thing is, i'm sure quite a few of the guys here see no problem with these examples.

They probably agree that women are essentially worth less than men, are are things to be dealt with.

They probably agree that man should be able to command several women at a time (and slave wives).

Chauvinism is by any mean restricted to Islam though.

Fatal, maybe you should start a thread on the subjugation of women by all religions, and i'll weigh in there.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-27-2011, 01:24 AM
haha, i just read back through your last few post where you quote some of the same verses as i do as evidence that Islam is kind to women.

All these passages address women as property!

How can you tell me with a straight face that the Koran prohibits slavery of women, when there is constant reference to those "on your right hand" (slaves) being female.

The Koran is constantly contradictory, which is why there are passages extolling the virtues of women in the same text which treats them as items to be controlled by men.

Does this obviate that chauvinism?

EAGLE EYE
02-27-2011, 02:44 AM
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lh5xc5EWbF1qz7lxdo1_500.jpg

TSA
02-27-2011, 10:29 AM
^damn, it's feels good to see people up on it.

Fatal Guillotine
02-27-2011, 12:27 PM
Originally Posted by Bateman.

If you only read one of these passages, make it the first one :

"4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."



cutting and pasting verses out of context is meaningless. do you realise how long it would take me to reply to each and every verse in your post? most of those ayats are only posted because they contain the word "women". how is this proof ?



you said to only focus on the first verse so that is what i will do.

[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

the first thing we need to do is analyze what reliable scholars have discussed with regards to this verse, and what it means. my two favourite are agha pooya and allama tabatabei. lets start with pooya/ ali:



The equality before law should not be confused with the equality of the complex of subjective and original qualities. Even the messengers and prophets of Allah are not equal in status due to their innate and endowed essence. "We have made some of these messengers to excel others", says the almighty , Allah in verse 253 of al-Baqarah.

Qanitatun means devoted to Allah, therefore, a woman who obeys Allah must accept His command and acknowledge her duties she has to perform to please her husband who spends of his wealth to provide for her. She must also watch over his property and his interests, attend to his needs, and above all guard her chastity.

In case a perverse woman (wife) refuses to mend her ways (very common among the low-bred and ignorant women of easy virtue) then the husband can admonish her, and even stop sleeping with her, but if the corrective measures fail to refine her, he can take harsher steps to make her qanitatun (devoted and obedient to Allah).

To understand the true purport of this verse, it is essential to keep in mind verse 21 of al-Rum.

"Another of His signs is that He created out of you mates of your own kind so that you may find repose in them, and has instilled (ordained) love and kindness between you. Verily there are signs in this for those who reflect."


In many verses it has been ordained to, treat women with kindness and to speak to them gently.

The Holy Prophet said:

"Never beat Allah's handmaidens."

"The best of you is he who is kind to his wife."

There is not a single event of wife-beating or child-beating in the lives of the Holy Prophet and his holy Ahl ul Bayt.


Fala tabghu alayhinna is a warning to the unscrupulous husbands not to seek an excuse for resorting to the conditional provision allowed to discipline the depraved women only.


my understanding of this commentary is split into 2 parts:

(1) that a man has a duty to his wife to "maintain" her, i.e. provide for her whatever makes her happy. the womans duty is to in return look after her husband and keep him happy.

this is not subjugating the woman. it is the natural order of marriage since the dawn of man.

(2) the issue of discipline. notice this part again:


There is not a single event of wife-beating or child-beating in the lives of the Holy Prophet

this are falls into the area of being makrooh, i.e. its not a sin but its better to avoid it for the sake of a better marriage. islam expects a certain level of maturity and kindness from muslims, and beating a woman is better avoided.

lets look at allama tabatabeis commentary of this verse:



The generality of these causes shows that the resulting principle, "Men are the maintainers of women", is not confined to the husbands. In other words, it does not say that man is the main-tamer of his wife; rather it gives authority to the men, as a group, over the whole group of women, in the common affairs which effect lives of both sexes on the whole. The general social aspects which are related to man's excellence as, for example, rulership and judiciary, are the things on which a society depends for its continuance. It is because of the prudence and judiciousness which are found in men in a higher degree than in women. Likewise, the fight and defense depend on strength and far-reaching strategic planning. In such affairs men have authority over women.

Consequently, the order, Men are the maintainers of women, is totally unrestricted and comprehensive, while the next sentence, the good women are therefore obedient..., is apparently restricted to the relationship between a man and his wife, as will be explained later on. This next declaration has branched out from the above general principle; but it does not restrict its generality in any way.

QUR'AN: the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the un*seen as Allah has guarded: "as-Salah" (merit, virtue, goodness); "al-qunut" (abiding obedience and submission). Its place, opposite to, those on whose part you fear recalcitrance, shows that "the good women" means good wives; and that it is applied to them during continuance of matrimony, not before or after that; and that the sentence, "the good women are therefore obedient..." which gives an order in the form of praise, and means that they should be obedient and should guard... - is an order related to matrimonial affairs and domestic life. Even so, it is a command whose scope of jurisdiction depends on its basic cause - the man's maintaining the woman by virtue of marriage. It is therefore incumbent upon her to obey him and guard their mutual or conjugal affairs.

does this subjugate women? i think not. it has always been the way of the men to be the breadwinners and the women to maintain the household. the man who cannot support his wife and family is looked down upon.

its also worth noting that in islam, loooooong before the rise of the fake feminism movement, women had rights to own property and businesses and have their own means of independence.

Fatal Guillotine
02-27-2011, 01:35 PM
http://juicysistas.tumblr.com/photo/1280/3504294773/1/tumblr_lh6lhnzoZL1qcze3m

http://www.4freeimagehost.com/uploads/f61288d3104c.jpg

EAGLE EYE
02-27-2011, 04:47 PM
http://www.worldpressphoto.org/index.php?option=com_photogallery&task=view&id=2084&Itemid=292&bandwidth=high

Fatal Guillotine
02-27-2011, 07:01 PM
haha, i just read back through your last few post where you quote some of the same verses as i do as evidence that Islam is kind to women.

All these passages address women as property!

How can you tell me with a straight face that the Koran prohibits slavery of women, when there is constant reference to those "on your right hand" (slaves) being female.

The Koran is constantly contradictory, which is why there are passages extolling the virtues of women in the same text which treats them as items to be controlled by men.

Does this obviate that chauvinism?



why have you ignored my entire post?

listen.

we need to understand the environment at the time. some things were banned straight away - such as burying baby girls alive - others were phased out bit by bit.

slavery was one of the things which was abolished in degrees over time. if you look at the prophets life and the life of the noble muslims after he died, we can see that freeing slaves was a *major* part of their lives.


all women does not equal "those who your right hand posseses". this is a lie.

it is referring to slaves you own who are female, in islam muslims are allowed to marry them. marriage means all the laws and formalities that go with it. failing that see my previous point re: the gradual phasing out of slavery over time, since it was such a big part of the pre-muhammad society.

this is not subjugation of women.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
02-27-2011, 07:10 PM
No it is... Keeping female slaves is subjugating women... But a slave is a slave and I can't cast stones about it as long as we agree it's no longer cool, which we do.

PALEFORCE
02-27-2011, 07:11 PM
the thing is if you shave these bitches heads they all look like men

Professor Poopsnagle
02-27-2011, 07:13 PM
What I like about the Islamic culture is that when a woman is raped it's her own fault and she should die. She has brought shame to her family and must get her face melted off with acid.

EAGLE EYE
02-27-2011, 07:19 PM
http://www.worldpressphoto.org/index.php?option=com_photogallery&task=view&id=2084&Itemid=292&bandwidth=high


http://i55.tinypic.com/1z686f8.png


This is the punishment for running away.

Professor Poopsnagle
02-27-2011, 07:20 PM
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab52/robochrist/355dbd9d.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
02-27-2011, 07:26 PM
im not going to address the question in this thread if you guys are operating on a openmind. PERIOD.

Professor Poopsnagle
02-27-2011, 07:29 PM
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab52/robochrist/fb72a970.png

PALEFORCE
02-27-2011, 07:31 PM
hahahhh these sunny winters comic strips crack me up!

Professor Poopsnagle
02-27-2011, 07:35 PM
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab52/robochrist/109d9991.jpg?t=1298856834

diggy
02-27-2011, 09:39 PM
http://lamutamu.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/alek-wek.jpg

Dr. Simon Hurt
02-27-2011, 10:15 PM
that skampoe post about drugs is some god-body shit.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-28-2011, 05:13 AM
Fatal, those verses more than speak for themselves, i'm not going to get into some convoluted argument with you because your interpretation of simple, plain language is as erratic as your thought processes.

Each and everyone of those verse codifies and promotes to subjugation of women.

You may not interpret it in this manner, but you're blinded by an unwavering support for an antiquated, irrelevant, violent and authoritarian religion.

The fact you can't see that makes discussion with you impossible.

The fact that you thought this sentence "there is constant reference to those "on your right hand" (slaves) being female." meant that i was saying "your right hand" just referenced women, makes it obvious you're beyond reasoning.

I was obviously saying that there was constant reference to "those on your right hand" (meaning slaves) + mention of these slaves being women.

Again, the fact that you can't even understand this language (which is very clear) leads me to the conclusion that any argument with you is going to be extremely irritating for me (and not because i'd come off the worse, simply because you're closed minded).

I have long since given up arguments with people who subscribe to these religious beliefs, i'll simply lay down what it says in the "holy scriptures" and leave it at that.

Interpretation is the "get out of jail free card" for any religion.

The tendency for religious people to pick and choice which religious commandments they abide by, is what makes modern religion farcical.

At least a fundamentalist keeps it 100, instead of being intentionally devious, as you constantly are.

Shem Hotep faggit.

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 08:49 AM
No it is... Keeping female slaves is subjugating women... But a slave is a slave and I can't cast stones about it as long as we agree it's no longer cool, which we do.


i think you might have missed the point i was making.

islam ended slavery in stages. the first stage was making it acceptable to marry female slaves - liberating them from slavery - the second, longer stage was changing the culture to make freeing slaves a great act of blessing. ill give you three examples instead of one:

- in order to seek forgiveness for a sin, one of the methods was freeing a slave

- in order to seek nearness to god, one of the methods was freeing a slave

- in order to give to charity, one of the methods was freeing a slave.

you see, the prophet created a framework within which freeing slaves become the social accepted norm, instead of a slave being born into slavery for their entire life along with their children.

does this seem like subjugation of women?

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 08:52 AM
and even if islam doesn't say WOMEN ARE SLAVES, the fact that its so meticulous in setting a 'difference' between men and women will always naturally cause one group to undermine the other.

once you decide to emphasis the differences between two things, the next question that a healty human mind will ask is 'which is better'. Next the views and treatment of the 'better' in comparison to the 'worst' will always favor the better at the expense of the worst.


If you tell people that group A sits infront of the bus and group B sits in the back with groups based on the thickness of elbow skin, then leave a member of group B in charge of maintaining the bus, don't be surprise if group A's side gets shittier and shittier over time and conflict breaks out between man made groups, let alone full blown genders and shit.





now to avoid conflict, islam set to 'protect' women. Sadly these protections amount to "shut the fuck up and act like you're not there and we won't have any problems hoe"

and cuts any avenues that have to stand up or fight for themselves. Islam blows, and even when it's not trying to blow it blows naturally.




men and women are not equal in all ways. such a thing is absurd to suggest. can a man get pregnant through natural means (not talking about that freak in the US)?

islam does not say that they are equal in this sense, rather that each has a different role, and within each role there are both benefits and drawbacks, just as a disruption to the natural order has both benefits and drawbacks, but the natural order is more beneficial for the individual.

this does not mean that female are below male; the status of women in islam, im talking the real islam not the wahabbi backed bullshit, is more than you could imagine. did you know that in islam there is a term "heaven lies under the feet of your mother"? or that it was a woman - the lady khatija peace upon her - who was the main support both financially and emotionally to the prophet during the early days? she was a millionaire by todays standards, and completelty independant of any man. did the prophet lock her up and tell her to make his dinner while he went out with the men all day?

you are confusing 3 things, which is why you are having trouble understanding my point.

(1) there is the factor of modern, wahabbi backed repression of women, based mostly on dodgy hadiths and mad mullahs fatwas. people think this is the "real" islam. it is nothing of the sort. its only 200 years old.

(2) theres quranic ayats which do talk about women and slavery, however when we analyse the context, its apparant straight away that these verses actually liberate women. not enslave them.

(3) there is a sustained, well organised anti islamic propaganda engine on the internet and media, spewing out the information you are using to base your points. its always better to question and verify everything yourself before making assumptions.

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 09:34 AM
3Mz8nTTS27g

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 09:36 AM
btw, getting a attitude and lacing your comments with name calling will not get the response you're looking for

Longbongcilvaringz
02-28-2011, 12:32 PM
Treating women like slaves will probably get the response you want.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-28-2011, 12:35 PM
(3) there is a sustained, well organised anti islamic propaganda engine on the internet and media, spewing out the information you are using to base your points. its always better to question and verify everything yourself before making assumptions.

I assume you're referring to the koran.

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 12:51 PM
i have come to realize that the info that you seek you not even prepare for this is proven because you went ahead and respond without viewing the video above.

this is something i have notice with the likes of TSA, Sham-ill and a couple of others you're not satisfy with the info your getting because it not in agreeance with you own views

if you feel that what im saying is wrong and you keep looking at this in a negative light, there are countless q&a websites on islam do the research for yourself

i already answer one of your questions, one you figure was the most important.

Professor Poopsnagle
02-28-2011, 01:31 PM
there are countless q&a websites on islam do the research for yourself.

I've always found this one very useful.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Longbongcilvaringz
02-28-2011, 02:42 PM
haha

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 02:47 PM
^^^
seems like my opinion doesn't matter to you so found out the truth for yourself.

Professor Poopsnagle
02-28-2011, 02:51 PM
Islam's Latest Contributions to Peace
"Mohammed is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless
to the unbelievers but merciful to one another" Quran 48:29

2011.02.27 (Pattani, Thailand) - A 54-year-old salesman is shot to death by Muslim militants. 2011.02.27 (Mandera, Somalia) - A woman is killed when Islamic militia attack a Red Cross office. 2011.02.27 (Arghandab, Afghanistan) - Taliban bombers take down eight civilians at a public event. 2011.02.26 (Baghdad, Iraq) - A university professor is assassinated by suspected fundamentalists. 2011.02.26 (Baiji, Iraq) - Terrorists attack an oil refinery and murder four employees. 2011.02.26 (Faryab, Afghanistan) - A teenage suicide bomber detonates at a playing field, killing at least four civilian spectators.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/ahmadiyah2.jpg
A delighted crowd of Indonesian Sunnis shout praises to
Allah as an Ahmadi religious minority gets schooled on
Islamic tolerance in what has been called the “world’s most
moderate Muslim country” (during Interfaith Week (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/footage-of-deadly-mob-attack-emerges/story-e6frfku0-1226001770342), no less).


http://www.youtube.com/user/patcondell

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 02:52 PM
and you post that because?

IrOnMaN
02-28-2011, 02:55 PM
Christians and Catholics.}:|

They're not all bad, though. I've had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know and develop a relationship with a few GOOD ones. But they're all people, though. Think about it.

I've meet a bunch of fake Muslims, unfortunately. They converted to Islam due to the fact that they were lost! They weren't REAL Muslims. Just normal bullshitters wanting to fit in because they want to belong to something and socialize. As I said before, people do it for entertainment purposes.

People aren't real anymore.

I'm not saying that religion is a bad thing. However, people treat it as a form of entertainment. The church itself is a perfect example. Do people attend church to worship God or do they attend church to socialize? Who is a hypocrite and who isn't? It's VERY EASY TO SPOT ONE!

Me, however, I don't have a religion. I only believe in God and his son Jesus Christ. To be honest, I think that's all I need. Yeah!

Longbongcilvaringz
02-28-2011, 02:55 PM
^^^
seems like my opinion doesn't matter to you so found out the truth for yourself.

yeah, you're right, your opinion isn't worth shit, because you continually defend violence toward and enslavement of women.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-28-2011, 02:57 PM
I'm not saying that religion is a bad thing.

Why isn't it a bad thing?

Professor Poopsnagle
02-28-2011, 02:58 PM
and you post that because?
Because my dick gets hard when you get mad.

EAGLE EYE
02-28-2011, 03:00 PM
Christians and Catholics.}:|

They're not all bad, though. I've had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know and develop a relationship with a few GOOD ones. But they're all people, though. Think about it.



lmao

this sounds almost word for word of what a scared white person says when they are finally forced to interact with blacks & hispanics.

Queen Of Poetry
02-28-2011, 03:00 PM
yeah, you're right, your opinion isn't worth shit, because you continually defend violence toward and enslavement of women.


What????

IrOnMaN
02-28-2011, 03:06 PM
lmao

this sounds almost word for word of what a scared white person says when they are finally forced to interact with blacks & hispanics.

Robbie, I attended church from the age 7-13 and I COULDN'T STAND IT! Just a bunch of hypocrites. The churches I attended as a kid were all about image and money. Most of the kids who came from good families are now screw ups (dead, in jail, on the streets selling drugs, kids, etc) What does that tell you?

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 03:07 PM
What????

his confused dont entertain him

Professor Poopsnagle
02-28-2011, 03:08 PM
What????
Question: Does Islam permit a man to hit his wife?


Summary Answer: Yes, but only if she doesn't do as he asks. The beating must cease if the woman complies with her husband's demands. Beating is also intended to be the last resort of coercing submission, behind verbal abuse and abandonment.
According her testimony in the Hadith, Muhammad, physically struck his favorite wife for leaving the house without his permission. It is not known how he treated his less-favored wives.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (4:34) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Qur'an (38:44) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/038.qmt.html#038.044) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (72:715) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.html#007.072.715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Bukhari (72:715) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.html#007.072.715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.

Muslim (4:2127) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Muslim (9:3506) (http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/009.smt.html#009.3506) - Muhammad's father-in-laws (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

Abu Dawud (2141) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

Abu Dawud (2142) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Abu Dawud (2126) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'" A Muslim man thinks his is getting a virgin, then finds out she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she has delivered the child.

Ishaq 969 - Commands that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others." According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.


Additional Notes:

Some contemporary Muslim apologists often squirm over this relatively straightforward verse from the Qur'an (4:34). Their masterful aerobics of denial inspired us to write a separate article:

Wife Beating- Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for You (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/WifeBeating.htm)

Others are not nearly as squeamish. Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most respected Muslim clerics in the world, once made the famous (and somewhat ridiculous statement) that "It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary." He also went on to say that "one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior," leaving no doubt that wife-beating is a matter of religious sanction. (source (http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR3004))

Dr. Muzammil Saddiqi, the former president of ISNA (the Islamic Society of North America), a mainstream Muslim organization, says it is important that a wife "recognizes the authority of her husband in the house" and that he may use physical force if he is "sure it would improve the situation." (source (http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2543/pub_detail.asp))

Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's most prestigious institution says that "light beatings" and "punching" are part of a program to "reform the wife". (source (http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4048.htm))

During Ramadan of 2010, another cleric named Sa'd Arafat actually said the woman is "honored" by the beating (source (http://weaselzippers.us/2010/09/05/egyptian-cleric-allah-honors-wives-with-beatings-islam-permits-wife-beating-only-when-she-refuses-to-have-sex-with-her-husband/)). No one else seemed surprised.

According to Islamic law, a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons:
- She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (ie. "let's herself go")
- She refuses to meet his sexual demands
- She leaves the house without his permission or for a "legitimate reason"
- She neglects her religious duties
Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorce.

Muslim apologists sometimes say that Muhammad ordered that women not be harmed, but they are actually basing this on what he said before or during battle, such as in Bukhari (59:447) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.447), when Muhammad issued a command for all the men of Quraiza be killed and the women and children taken as slaves. (Having your husband murdered and being forced into sexual slavery apparently doesn't qualify as "harm" under the Islamic model).

But, in fact, there are a number of cases in which Muhammad did have women killed in the most brutal fashion. One was Asma bint Marwan, a mother or five, who wrote a poem criticizing the Medinans for accepting Muhammad after he had ordered the murder of an elderly man. In this case, the prophet's assassins literally pulled a sleeping infant from her breast and stabbed her to death.

After taking Mecca in 630, Muhammad also ordered the murder of a slave girl who had merely made up songs mocking him. The Hadith are rife as well with accounts of women planted in the ground on Muhammad's command and pelted to death with stones for sexual immorality - yet the prophet of Islam actually encouraged his own men to rape women captured in battle (Abu Dawood 2150, Muslim 3433 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3433)) and did not punish them for killing non-Muslim women (as Khalid ibn Walid did on several occasions - see Ibn Ishaq 838 and 856).

In summary, according to the Qur'an, Hadith and Islamic law, a woman may indeed have physical harm done to her if the circumstances warrant, with one such allowance being in the case of disobedience. This certainly does not mean that all Muslim men beat their wives, only that Islam permits them to do so.


Question: Does Islam teach that a woman is worth less than a man?


Summary Answer: Absolutely. The only debatable point is by what degree.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (4:11) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.011) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.176)).
Qur'an (2:282) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists have sometimes creatively tried to explain why a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's under Islamic law (based on this verse) while still attempting to maintain the semblance of equality. Unfortunately for them, studies consistently show that women are less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses in any court - were it not for Islam's obvious sexism.
Qur'an (2:228) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"
Qur'an (5:6) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.006) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).
Qur'an (24:31) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/024.qmt.html#024.031) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).
Qur'an (2:223) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3365).
Qur'an (4:3) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.003) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four"
Qur'an (53:27) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/053.qmt.html#053.027) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.
Qur'an (4:24) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.024) and Qur'an (33:50) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.050) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (6:301) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Bukhari (6:301) - continued (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301) - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.

Bukhari (2:28) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.028) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Bukhari (62:81) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.081) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words, the most important thing that a woman brings to a marriage is between her legs.

Bukhari (62:58) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.058) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

Muslim (4:1039) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"

Abu Dawud (2:704) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/002.sat.html#002.0704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

Abu Dawud (2155) (http://www.muslimhope.com/AbuDawud.htm) - Women are compared to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'" Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without a word of rebuke from him.

Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Tabari VIII:117 - The fate of more captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves as sex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves." From Muhammad's 'Farewell Sermon'.


Additional Notes:

The fourth Caliph, who was Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin, said just a few years after the prophet's death that "The entire woman is an evil. And what is worse is that it is a necessary evil."

A traditional Islamic saying is that, "A woman's heaven is beneath her husband's feet."

The revered Islamic scholar, al-Ghazali, who has been called 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad,' writes that the role of a Muslim woman is to "stay at home and get on with her sewing. She should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband... and seek to satisfy him in everything... Her sole worry should be her virtue... She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment." [as quoted from Ibn Warraq]

A Yemeni cleric recently explained (http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1930.htm) in a television broadcast what it is that makes women inferior and unable, say, to serve as good witnesses: "Women are subject to menstruation, when their endurance and mental capacity for concentration are diminished. When a woman witnesses a killing or an accident, she becomes frightened, moves away, and sometimes even faints, and she cannot even watch the incident."

The many opportunities denied women under Islamic law, from giving equal testimony in court to having the right to exclude other wives from their marital bed, is very clear proof that women are of lesser value then men in Islam. Muslim women are not even free to marry outside the faith without being killed by their own families.

Islamic law also specifies that when a woman is murdered by a man, her family is owed only half as much "blood money" as they would be if she had been a man.

Although a man retains custody of his children in the event of his wife's death, a non-Muslim woman will automatically lose custody of her children in the event of her husband's death unless she converts to Islam or marries a male relative of within his family. Even the rights of Muslim mothers are subordinate to her husband's family.

Contemporary Muslims like to counter that Arabs treated women as camels prior to Muhammad. This is somewhat questionable, given that Muhammad's first wife was a wealthy woman who owned property and ran a successful business prior to ever meeting him. She was even his boss... (although we're sure that changed after the marriage). Still, it is somewhat telling that Islam's treatment of women can only be defended by contrasting it to an extremely primitive environment in which women were supposedly non-entities.

Homa Darabi was a talented physician who took her own life by setting herself on fire in public protest of the oppression of women in Islamic Iran. She did this after a 16-year-old girl was shot to death for wearing lipstick. In the book, Why We Left Islam, her sister include a direct quote from one of the country's leading clerics:

"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or whatever careers which may require decision-making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for these careers."

At best, Islam elevates the status of a woman to somewhere between that of a camel and a man.
The immutable, ever-relevant Qur'an explicitly permits women to be kept as sex slaves, and this is hardly something in which Muslims can take pride.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Fatal Guillotine
02-28-2011, 03:15 PM
are you for or against islam

Professor Poopsnagle
02-28-2011, 03:19 PM
I love beating bitches.

IrOnMaN
02-28-2011, 03:21 PM
Isn't it true the Ali beat his wives?

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 12:41 AM
Yeah, but just to teach them a lesson, not for fun.

Although Islam does seem to be implicitly sadistic, it's never really condoned the use violence for pleasure. More a means to an end, like genocide or enslavement.

EAGLE EYE
03-01-2011, 01:05 AM
Question: Does Islam permit a man to hit his wife?


Summary Answer: Yes, but only if she doesn't do as he asks. The beating must cease if the woman complies with her husband's demands. Beating is also intended to be the last resort of coercing submission, behind verbal abuse and abandonment.
According her testimony in the Hadith, Muhammad, physically struck his favorite wife for leaving the house without his permission. It is not known how he treated his less-favored wives.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (4:34) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."
Qur'an (38:44) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/038.qmt.html#038.044) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (72:715) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.html#007.072.715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

Bukhari (72:715) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.html#007.072.715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.

Muslim (4:2127) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Muslim (9:3506) (http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/muslim/009.smt.html#009.3506) - Muhammad's father-in-laws (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

Abu Dawud (2141) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2141) - "Iyas bin ‘Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when ‘Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them." At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

Abu Dawud (2142) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

Abu Dawud (2126) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/011.sat.html#011.2126) - "A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: 'I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).' The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: 'She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'" A Muslim man thinks his is getting a virgin, then finds out she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she has delivered the child.

Ishaq 969 - Commands that a married woman be "put in a separate room and beaten lightly" if she "act in a sexual manner toward others." According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.


Additional Notes:

Some contemporary Muslim apologists often squirm over this relatively straightforward verse from the Qur'an (4:34). Their masterful aerobics of denial inspired us to write a separate article:

Wife Beating- Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for You (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/WifeBeating.htm)

Others are not nearly as squeamish. Sheikh Yousef al-Qaradhawi, one of the most respected Muslim clerics in the world, once made the famous (and somewhat ridiculous statement) that "It is forbidden to beat the woman, unless it is necessary." He also went on to say that "one may beat only to safeguard Islamic behavior," leaving no doubt that wife-beating is a matter of religious sanction. (source (http://www.memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Area=sr&ID=SR3004))

Dr. Muzammil Saddiqi, the former president of ISNA (the Islamic Society of North America), a mainstream Muslim organization, says it is important that a wife "recognizes the authority of her husband in the house" and that he may use physical force if he is "sure it would improve the situation." (source (http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.2543/pub_detail.asp))

Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Muhammad Ahmad Al-Tayyeb, the head of Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam's most prestigious institution says that "light beatings" and "punching" are part of a program to "reform the wife". (source (http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4048.htm))

During Ramadan of 2010, another cleric named Sa'd Arafat actually said the woman is "honored" by the beating (source (http://weaselzippers.us/2010/09/05/egyptian-cleric-allah-honors-wives-with-beatings-islam-permits-wife-beating-only-when-she-refuses-to-have-sex-with-her-husband/)). No one else seemed surprised.

According to Islamic law, a husband may strike his wife for any one of the following four reasons: - She does not attempt to make herself beautiful for him (ie. "let's herself go")
- She refuses to meet his sexual demands
- She leaves the house without his permission or for a "legitimate reason"
- She neglects her religious duties
Any of these are also sufficient grounds for divorce.

Muslim apologists sometimes say that Muhammad ordered that women not be harmed, but they are actually basing this on what he said before or during battle, such as in Bukhari (59:447) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.447), when Muhammad issued a command for all the men of Quraiza be killed and the women and children taken as slaves. (Having your husband murdered and being forced into sexual slavery apparently doesn't qualify as "harm" under the Islamic model).

But, in fact, there are a number of cases in which Muhammad did have women killed in the most brutal fashion. One was Asma bint Marwan, a mother or five, who wrote a poem criticizing the Medinans for accepting Muhammad after he had ordered the murder of an elderly man. In this case, the prophet's assassins literally pulled a sleeping infant from her breast and stabbed her to death.

After taking Mecca in 630, Muhammad also ordered the murder of a slave girl who had merely made up songs mocking him. The Hadith are rife as well with accounts of women planted in the ground on Muhammad's command and pelted to death with stones for sexual immorality - yet the prophet of Islam actually encouraged his own men to rape women captured in battle (Abu Dawood 2150, Muslim 3433 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3433)) and did not punish them for killing non-Muslim women (as Khalid ibn Walid did on several occasions - see Ibn Ishaq 838 and 856).

In summary, according to the Qur'an, Hadith and Islamic law, a woman may indeed have physical harm done to her if the circumstances warrant, with one such allowance being in the case of disobedience. This certainly does not mean that all Muslim men beat their wives, only that Islam permits them to do so.


Question: Does Islam teach that a woman is worth less than a man?


Summary Answer: Absolutely. The only debatable point is by what degree.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (4:11) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.011) - (Inheritance) "The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females" (see also verse 4:176 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.176)).
Qur'an (2:282) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.282) - (Court testimony) "And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women." Muslim apologists have sometimes creatively tried to explain why a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man's under Islamic law (based on this verse) while still attempting to maintain the semblance of equality. Unfortunately for them, studies consistently show that women are less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses in any court - were it not for Islam's obvious sexism.
Qur'an (2:228) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.228) - "and the men are a degree above them [women]"
Qur'an (5:6) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/005.qmt.html#005.006) - "And if ye are unclean, purify yourselves. And if ye are sick or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have had contact with women, and ye find not water, then go to clean, high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it" Men are to rub dirt on their hands if there is no water to purify them following casual contact with a woman (such as shaking hands).
Qur'an (24:31) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/024.qmt.html#024.031) - Women are to lower their gaze around men, so they do not look them in the eye. (To be fair, men are told to do the same thing in the prior verse).
Qur'an (2:223) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." A man has dominion over his wives' bodies as he does his land. This verse is overtly sexual. There is some dispute as to whether it is referring to the practice of anal intercourse, which it has been used historically to justify. If this is what Muhammad meant, however, then it would appear to contradict what he said in Muslim (8:3365) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/008.smt.html#008.3365).
Qur'an (4:3) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.003) - (Wife-to-husband ratio) "Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four"
Qur'an (53:27) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/053.qmt.html#053.027) - "Those who believe not in the Hereafter, name the angels with female names." Angels are sublime beings, and would therefore be male.
Qur'an (4:24) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.024) and Qur'an (33:50) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.050) - A man is permitted to take women as sex slaves outside of marriage. Note that the verse distinguishes wives from captives (those whom they right hand possesses).


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (6:301) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301) - "[Muhammad] said, 'Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?' They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence.'"

Bukhari (6:301) - continued (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/006.sbt.html#001.006.301) - "[Muhammad said] 'Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'" Allah has made women deficient in the practice of their religion as well, by giving them menstrual cycles.

Bukhari (2:28) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.028) - Women comprise the majority of Hell's occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

Bukhari (62:81) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.081) - "The Prophet said: "'The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract).'" In other words, the most important thing that a woman brings to a marriage is between her legs.

Bukhari (62:58) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.058) - A woman presents herself in marriage to Muhammad, but he does not find her attractive, so he "donates" her on the spot to another man.

Muslim (4:1039) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/004.smt.html#004.1039) - "A'isha said [to Muhammad]: 'You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses'"

Abu Dawud (2:704) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/abudawud/002.sat.html#002.0704) - "...the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: When one of you prays without a sutrah, a dog, an ass, a pig, a Jew, a Magian, and a woman cut off his prayer, but it will suffice if they pass in front of him at a distance of over a stone's throw."

Abu Dawud (2155) (http://www.muslimhope.com/AbuDawud.htm) - Women are compared to slaves and camels with regard to the "evil" in them.

Ishaq 593 - "As for Ali, he said, 'Women are plentiful, and you can easily change one for another.'" Ali was raised as a son by Muhammad. He was also the 4th caliph. This comment was made in Muhammad's presence without a word of rebuke from him.

Ishaq 593 - "From the captives of Hunayn, Allah's Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another." - Even in this world, Muhammad treated women like party favors, handing out slave girls to his cronies for sex.

Tabari VIII:117 - The fate of more captured farm wives, whom the Muslims distributed amongst themselves as sex slaves: "Dihyah had asked the Messenger for Safiyah when the Prophet chose her for himself... the Apostle traded for Safiyah by giving Dihyah her two cousins. The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims."

Tabari IX:137 - "Allah granted Rayhana of the Qurayza to Muhammad as booty."

Ishaq 969 - "Men were to lay injunctions on women lightly, for they were prisoners of men and had no control over their persons." - This same text also justifies beating women for flirting.

Tabari Vol 9, Number 1754 - "Treat women well, for they are [like] domestic animals with you and do not possess anything for themselves." From Muhammad's 'Farewell Sermon'.


Additional Notes:

The fourth Caliph, who was Muhammad's son-in-law and cousin, said just a few years after the prophet's death that "The entire woman is an evil. And what is worse is that it is a necessary evil."

A traditional Islamic saying is that, "A woman's heaven is beneath her husband's feet."

The revered Islamic scholar, al-Ghazali, who has been called 'the greatest Muslim after Muhammad,' writes that the role of a Muslim woman is to "stay at home and get on with her sewing. She should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbors and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband... and seek to satisfy him in everything... Her sole worry should be her virtue... She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment." [as quoted from Ibn Warraq]

A Yemeni cleric recently explained (http://www.memritv.org/clip_transcript/en/1930.htm) in a television broadcast what it is that makes women inferior and unable, say, to serve as good witnesses: "Women are subject to menstruation, when their endurance and mental capacity for concentration are diminished. When a woman witnesses a killing or an accident, she becomes frightened, moves away, and sometimes even faints, and she cannot even watch the incident."

The many opportunities denied women under Islamic law, from giving equal testimony in court to having the right to exclude other wives from their marital bed, is very clear proof that women are of lesser value then men in Islam. Muslim women are not even free to marry outside the faith without being killed by their own families.

Islamic law also specifies that when a woman is murdered by a man, her family is owed only half as much "blood money" as they would be if she had been a man.

Although a man retains custody of his children in the event of his wife's death, a non-Muslim woman will automatically lose custody of her children in the event of her husband's death unless she converts to Islam or marries a male relative of within his family. Even the rights of Muslim mothers are subordinate to her husband's family.

Contemporary Muslims like to counter that Arabs treated women as camels prior to Muhammad. This is somewhat questionable, given that Muhammad's first wife was a wealthy woman who owned property and ran a successful business prior to ever meeting him. She was even his boss... (although we're sure that changed after the marriage). Still, it is somewhat telling that Islam's treatment of women can only be defended by contrasting it to an extremely primitive environment in which women were supposedly non-entities.

Homa Darabi was a talented physician who took her own life by setting herself on fire in public protest of the oppression of women in Islamic Iran. She did this after a 16-year-old girl was shot to death for wearing lipstick. In the book, Why We Left Islam, her sister include a direct quote from one of the country's leading clerics:

"The specific task of women in this society is to marry and bear children. They will be discouraged from entering legislative, judicial, or whatever careers which may require decision-making, as women lack the intellectual ability and discerning judgment required for these careers."

At best, Islam elevates the status of a woman to somewhere between that of a camel and a man.
The immutable, ever-relevant Qur'an explicitly permits women to be kept as sex slaves, and this is hardly something in which Muslims can take pride.

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What????

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 01:08 AM
you guys are just interpreting the "scriptures" incorrectly.

when they reference control and subjugation of women, it actually refers to freeing women.

trust me.

i'm a moderate muslim

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 07:48 AM
peace bateman, i respect what you saying but i dont agree with the treatment of women, although there are some who draw of their own interpretations (one of the reasons why there so many muslim radicals)

just to address jasper watch the websites you go to because their giving you the wrong info that being that

Tabari (don't know any Muslim who's actually heard of him), uses his own words; they're not the Word of God.

abu hurraira, ibn taymiyya etc as they are not an authority in islam according to my understanding.

peace & respect

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 08:18 AM
peace bateman, i respect what you saying but i dont agree with the treatment of women, although there are some who draw of their own interpretations (one of the reasons why there so many muslim radicals)

just to address jasper watch the websites you go to because their giving you the wrong info that being that

Tabari (don't know any Muslim who's actually heard of him), uses his own words; they're not the Word of God.

abu hurraira, ibn taymiyya etc as they are not an authority in islam according to my understanding.

peace & respectMuslim radicals are Muslims who are the most faithful to what the Quran says. They are the truest Muslims.
Why dismiss a website that literally quotes from the Quran? Those words are really in there.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 08:22 AM
you're missing the point Tabari (don't know any Muslim who's actually heard of him), uses his own words; they're not the Word of God.

abu hurraira, ibn taymiyya etc as they are not an authority in islam according to my understanding nor anybody else for that matter

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 08:27 AM
4:34
its about how women should listen to their husbands, as the husband is naturally stronger than a woman and does all the work and feeds her and the rest of the family and provides her with money. also god explains that women are the keepers of secrets of men (so they are both superior in their own way). the god explains that if a woman refuses to listen to her husband, he should first not talk to her, then if she still refuses to listen to him he should not sleep with her in the same bed, if she continues he should beat her lightly (with something equivalent to a piece of cloth...the point is not to hurt, but to express anger)

4:20
if u divorce a woman, dont take any money u have given her while u were married

33:59
god tells the prophet's wives and daughters to cover their head (the same way christian nuns do) and also face (but this is NOT obligatory) when they leave the house, to avoid men looking at them in a wrong way and possibly harassing them

2:223
here god explains that there are no restrictions for a man and a woman to have sex as they will (meaning what a man and a woman do in a closed room is up to them)

4:3 (this is some seriously lousy translation)
god strikes an example of how a man is afraid of adopting many orphans since he will not be able to do justice to them, and thus he should feel the same about women and not marry more than one if he cant do justice to them all.

4:15
if a woman is accused of a major sin (such as adultery) than only accuse her when at least four men testify against her, and if she is guilty than she shouldnt be allowed to leave her house until she dies. (holding her in her house was at first, then as mercy of god, another verse was released to speak of the punishment of adultery)

4:19
men are NOT allowed to take the inheritance of a woman (such as a sister, with the excuse of she would waste it), nor do they have any right to deny them their legal share.

4:24 this verse explains that a man can marry any woman as long as she's not married, and as long as he gives her "mahr" or bridal money (money given by the man to the woman before marriage) it also says that if a man wishes to give his wife more after marriage, its ok

4:11
this verse explains the shares of a wealth during inheritance, cut out between family members.
a man gets 2 thrids and a woman one third, if he has parents they both get sixth (the rest is self explanatory)

4:25, if u dont have enough money to marry a woman, than marry a maid (or equivalent to a girl who works for u)
it also explains that a married woman deserves twice the punishment of non married if they commit adultery.

4:8 are u sure this is the right verse??
its not

this is 4:8

And when the relatives and the orphans and Al-Masâkin (the poor) are present at the time of division, give them out of the property, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.


4:129
in the previous verse god stated that u should not marry more than one if u cant be just to all of them, but later out of mercy and due to man's inability to do perfect justice, god explains that dont try too hard with one wife that u end up neglecting the other, just be good to ur wife and keep away from evil.

24:31
this verse explains how a muslim woman should behave in public basically, not to stare at men (as this causes lust, and attracts unwanted attention), also to cover certain parts of her body (shoulders, legs) unless in front of certain people like husband or father or family.

33:30
this verse is pretty much restricted to the prophet's wives, since they were an example to all women, any sin from them would be greater than other women (in another verse god explains that also, any good deed from them earns them double the reward)

37:22
all wrong doers will be brought to god for judgment, u may ask why would god punish a woman for her husband's sins??
like said before, women are the secret keepers, if a woman knows her husband is, say, stealing, its her duty to report him. if she keeps to his side even during evil-doings, she is a "partner in crime"

66:10
this verse explains that no woman (or even man) would be redeemed from his sins simply because he or she were related to a good person (and with that, god takes the wife of noah and lut as an example, they were both sinful and being married to even prophets doesnt earn them a free ticket to heaven)

2:187
(poorly translated)
this verse is strictly about the month of ramadan (its in the arabic calender) where muslims would stop eating as well as having intercourse (however sitting, talking and even playing with wife is allowed) between sun-up and sun-down, i.e during the day

2:222
from the point of cleanliness, islam states that women during menses are not in a hygienic state for safe intercourse (basically she has an open wound, any infection would have a higher chance of hitting) so god explains that men should not have intercourse with a woman during menses

2:229
this verse is kinda hard to explain if u dont understand how things go within a muslim community regarding divorce ( i'm not embarrassed or anything to explain it)

2:230
this is an islamic law, if a woman marries a man, then they get divorced, then change their mind and get married, then get divorced, then change their mind and get married, and get divorced a third time...they are not allowed to get married again unless she marries another man

2:282
this verse explains that if anyone debts someone with money, gold, or anything, than for the sake of trust and security, they should make a written statement (as a contract). and if any man who knows how to write is asked to make the contract, he should not disobey(this part had a much significant importance in societies were many people were illiterate and only a few knew how to write)
it also states that if a man who is debiting the money is in any way not to be trusted with his wealth (like an old guy who's a big spender on useless stuff) or if he is incapable of making a contract, then his guardian or nearest in kin should be in charge of the contract

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 08:34 AM
The names Abu Hurraira and Taymiyya aren't in that text at all. Tabari, ok, I don't feel like getting to the bottom of that, so I'll just give you that one. Then still, 99% of what I copy and pasted still stands. And it's seen in practice on daily basis if you follow the news. The Islam is very clear where it stands on woman rights. G's up hoes down.

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 08:38 AM
Question: Does Islam teach that women are under the charge of men?


Summary Answer: Men are in charge of women, according to the words of Muhammad and the Qur'an.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (4:34) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html#004.034) - "Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them."
Qur'an (2:228) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.228) - "and the men are a degree above them"
Qur'an (33:59) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.059) - "Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them..." Men determine how women dress.
Qur'an (33:33) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.033) - "And abide quietly in your homes..." Women are confined to their homes except when they have permission to go out.
Qur'an (2:223) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will." Wives are to be sexually available to their husbands in all ways at all times. They serve their husbands at his command. This verse is believed to refer to anal sex (see Bukhari 60:51 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/060.sbt.html#006.060.051)), and was "revealed" when women complained to Muhammad about the practice. The phrase "when and how you will" means that they lost their case.
Qur'an (66:5) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/066.qmt.html#066.005) - "Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins" A disobedient wife can be replaced.


From the Hadith:

Bukhari (88:219) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/088.sbt.html#009.088.219) - "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

Bukhari (2:28) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/002.sbt.html#001.002.028) - Ingratitude toward her husband (ie. disobedience) can land a woman in Hell. Muhammad explains why women comprise the bulk of Hell's occupants.

Bukhari (72:715) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/072.sbt.html#007.072.715) - A charming little tale in which a woman seeks Muhammad's help in leaving an abusive marriage, but is ordered by the prophet to return to her husband and submit to his commands.

Bukhari (4:149) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/004.sbt.html#001.004.149) - Muhammad's wives are even trained to defecate on his command.

Bukhari (48:826) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/048.sbt.html#003.048.826) - Women have a deficiency of intelligence, meaning that their decisions will not be comparable to a man's.

Bukhari (58:125) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.125) - Women are tradable commodities. A Muslim with two wives offers a fellow Muslim his pick between the two. Muhammad then arranges a wedding banquet.

Bukhari (62:81) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/062.sbt.html#007.062.081) - According to Muhammad, the most important part of a marriage contract is the unrestricted access that a man has to his wife's vagina.

Abu Dawud (567) - "...even though their houses are better for them."


Additional Notes:

To this day, it is absolutely forbidden for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man, even though men are not under the same restriction as to their choice of marriage partners. This is is a consequence of the low status of a wife against that of her husband. A Muslim is not allowed to be subordinate to a non-Muslim, and a wife must be subordinate to her husband.

In her lifetime, a Muslim woman is never to be without the guardianship of a man, from her father to her husband to the male members of her family (in the event that she is widowed or divorced).

Many contemporary Muslims realize that traditional Islamic practice is painfully out of step with modern tastes. Thus have ensued very imaginative efforts to reinterpret the long held traditions of their religion, exaggerating both the negative treatment of Arab women prior to Muhammad and the reforms that he is said to have brought about.

Muhammad's blunt words on marriage are what they are. On top of this, he forbade women from traveling alone. Nor are they allowed to be alone with a non-relative male. Women must cover themselves, and, when there is sexual sin, they nearly always bear the responsibility of guilt, as it is assumed that they are under a higher standard of conduct.

Stonings, honor killings, floggings and even the mutilation of female genitalia are sporadically employed in the Muslim world to keep women in their place.

According to a recent fatwa (http://muslimmatters.org/2010/06/30/homely-homemaking-homebodies-why-the-quran-commands-muslim-women-stay-in-your-homes/) on the Muslim Matters website, "a Muslim woman should keep her home as the focus of her attention and activities, and make it the base of her affairs." Women are allowed to leave the house under certain conditions, such as medical emergency and religious observance. Islam also permits them to get a job "if there is no mahrum man providing for them", but it should be limited to certain occupations that only involve other women, such as catering, teaching, fashion, beautician or a variety of domestic positions.

Question: Why are rape victims punished by Islamic courts as adulterers?


Summary Answer: Under Islamic law, rape can only be proven if the rapist confesses or if there are four male witnesses. Women who allege rape, without the benefit of the act having been witnessed by four men who subsequently develop a conscience, are actually confessing to having sex. If they or the accused happens to be married, then it is considered to be adultery.


The Qur'an: Qur'an (2:282) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.282) - Establishes that a woman's testimony is worth only half that of a man's in court (there is no "he said/she said" gridlock in Islam).
Qur'an (24:4) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/024.qmt.html#024.004) - "And those who accuse free women then do not bring four witnesses (to adultery), flog them..."
Qur'an (24:13) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/024.qmt.html#024.013) - "Why did they not bring four witnesses of it? But as they have not brought witnesses they are liars before Allah."
Qur'an (2:223) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/002.qmt.html#002.223) - "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will..." There is no such thing as rape in marriage, as a man is permitted unrestricted sexual access to his wives.

From the Hadith:

Bukhari (5:59:462) (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.462) - The background for the Qur'anic requirement of four witnesses to adultery. Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was accused of cheating [on her polygamous husband]. Three witnesses corroborated the event, but Muhammad did not want to believe it, and so established the arbitrary rule that four witnesses are required.


Additional Notes:

Rape is virtually impossible to prove under Islamic law (Sharia) and even in more moderate countries. If the man claims that the act was consensual sex, there is very little that the woman can do to refute this. Islam places the burden of avoiding sexual encounters of any sort on the woman.

There can be no such thing as rape in marriage, even if the husband has to hit the wife in order to bring about her submission. As a recent fatwa reminds a woman, she "does not have the right to refuse her husband, rather she must respond to his request every time he calls her." (Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 33597 (http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/33597)).

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/quran.htm

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 08:41 AM
but what you are missing is that there are countless interpretations of the quran and some people even chose to take a verse and mistranslated it, these interpretations are something that some muslims have discuss time and time again, however you're still going to have someone that interprets the quran they're own way, the same can be said about christian and their countless number of preachers.


and i dont care what anyone says mistreatment of women in any way is wrong.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 08:42 AM
did i or didnt i just break that down for you

and another thing:

I googled some of the things you said and found them on another website. You should really state your source of information in future.
For people who are interested this is the site .. http://www.thereligionofpeace.com and the article http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/003-wife-beating.htm

Everything is completely and utterly taken out of context. Here is the real reference from Bukhari book 72, number 715. What is in bold is what they mention on that website.

Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715:

Narrated 'Ikrima:

Rifa'a divorced his wife whereupon 'AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. 'Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah's Apostle came, 'Aisha said, "I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!" When 'AbdurRahman heard that his wife had gone to the Prophet, he came with his two sons from another wife. She said, "By Allah! I have done no wrong to him but he is impotent and is as useless to me as this," holding and showing the fringe of her garment, 'Abdur-Rahman said, "By Allah, O Allah's Apostle! She has told a lie! I am very strong and can satisfy her but she is disobedient and wants to go back to Rifa'a." Allah's Apostle said, to her, "If that is your intention, then know that it is unlawful for you to remarry Rifa'a unless Abdur-Rahman has had sexual intercourse with you." Then the Prophet saw two boys with 'Abdur-Rahman and asked (him), "Are these your sons?" On that 'AbdurRahman said, "Yes." The Prophet said, "You claim what you claim (i.e.. that he is impotent)? But by Allah, these boys resemble him as a crow resembles a crow.

38.44 - has also been taken out of context , I advise you to read the story of Job. Just these two references makes the rest of the article not worth reading because it is obviously not an honest article.

Please in future if you are going to read from websites, go and investigate whether or not they are authentic, I don't feel this website had good intentions. I had a look around on the site and it had the so called number of terrorist attacks muslims have carried out since 9/11.

Its basically a hate website called Islam: The religion of peace and a big stack of dead bodies. I ask you do you really think any article from this website could possibly be objective? It is quite clearly a website with a hurtful intention full of biases. Remember anyone can make a website.

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 08:49 AM
but what you are missing is that there are countless interpretations of the quran and some people even chose to take a verse and mistranslated it, these interpretations are something that some muslims have discuss time and time again, however you're still going to have someone that interprets the quran they're own way, the same can be said about christian and their countless number of preachers.


and i dont care what anyone says mistreatment of women in any way is wrong.We can agree on that.

That being said, the Quran doesn't agree. The 4:34 verse you quoted is censored.

"A quick test for determining whether a version of the Quran is true or "politically correct" is to turn to verse 4:34 and check whether the word "beat" or "scourge" is used in the instruction to discipline belligerent wives. If it is there, then the copy is probably closer to the original Arabic than the more recent "whitewashed" versions."

In Arabic countries they have the 'uncut' version and that is shown by the way women are treated in Islamic countries.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 08:52 AM
read the above in regards to that site jasper

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 08:59 AM
That site simply quotes from the original uncensored non westernised Quran as read by many Muslims in Arabic countries. And the proof of how the Islam sees women is proven every day in countries as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Jemen, Sudan, Pakistan etc. You can interpret anything anyway you want, that goes for any fucking thing. But let's not deny the Quran isn't meant to be interpreted to see man and woman as equals.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 09:02 AM
this is incorrect

are you muslim?

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 09:03 AM
women have a tidbit more rights then what men have

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 09:05 AM
this is incorrect

are you muslim?
No it's not.

Short Introduction to the Quran

The Quran (Quran, Koran) is the Holy Book of Islam and the religion's most sacred writing. The word itself means "recitation." It is a series of "revelations" that Muhammad claimed to have received from Allah at various (often highly convenient) times in his life and then dictated to scribes.
The book is divided into 114 Suras (chapters) that contain ayat (verses). Despite the internal claim that it is "perfectly arranged", the Suras are not in chronological (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/quran.htm#Quran-Chronology) or thematic sequence, but sorted simply by general size, with the larger ones appearing first. As such, there is no logical continuity or transition between chapters - and precious little within.
The Quran was compiled in the years and decades following Muhammad's death from snatches of writings on papyrus leaves, wood carvings, animal bones and especially the memory of his companions, who were beginning to die off. There is generous redundancy within the text as well as contradictions - which are said to be resolved through "abrogation," whereby later verses have authority over earlier ones when there is an apparent dispute between them.
Although the words in the Quran are believed by Muslims to be those of Allah, and not Muhammad, there are several places in the narration where this simply doesn't make sense. In some cases, Muslim scribes mended the problem by inserting the word "say" in front of certain text to make it appear as if Allah is commanding Muhammad to speak in the first person. In other cases, their clean-up work was not quite as thorough (such as the famous 27:91 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/027.qmt.html#027.091), in which the word "say" is not in the original Arabic).
The words of the Quran are said to be the literal, eternal words of Allah himself, relevant to all people at all times (it is unclear why personal directives such as 33:53 (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/033.qmt.html#033.053) were included). It is not a book of history  (although there is some badly garbled fragments of stories from the Bible scattered throughout). The verses that issue rules and edicts are generally open-ended. Very few are bound by historical context within the actual text, including calls to violence against unbelievers.
In fact, the Quran is almost incomprehensible in and of itself due to the piecemeal way in which it was compiled. Directives, topics, diatribes, incomplete accounts of Old Testament stories and mythological characters appear randomly with very little stream-of-thought consistency. Themes are disjointed and shifting, something that would not be expected of a perfect book of instruction.
External sources, such as the Hadith (narrations of Muhammad's words and deeds) are essential for understanding not just the context of what is being said, but often the very meaning of critical passages. Even so, interpretations are often arbitrary and, since there is no longer a central authority in Islam, various Muslim factions often claim confidence in remarkably different applications of the religion and its "true meaning."
Older versions of the Quran would be helpful in the study of certain words (since vowels are often left out of transcriptions) but unfortunately ancient texts are usually either destroyed or hidden from public view by authorities, since they differ somewhat from modern versions - and thus throw into question the Quran's internal claim to be the immutable word of God.
The Suras of the Quran can be grouped into two distinct periods in Muhammad's life. There is the earlier "Meccan" period, when Muhammad had little to say about violence or "fighting in Allah's way." Not only did he not have the power to force Islam on others at the time, but he was borrowing heavily from Judeo-Christian religious tradition.
Then there are the "Medinan" Suras and later, in which the commands to violent Jihad and intolerance increase corresponding to Muhammad's military strength. The bloody 9th Sura (the Verse of the Sword) is one of the very last to be handed down by the prophet of Islam, and it came at a time when the Muslims had already achieved power over their neighbors, forcing into exile those who would not convert.
Every 12th verse of the Quran speaks of either earthly or divine punishment against unbelievers. People of other religions are said to be "cursed by Allah." The more tolerant verses (though popular with contemporary apologists) are less numerous than the later, more violent ones - which are believed to abrogate those that precede them.
It is important to note that neither the Quran nor Islam contains a single original moral value. However, it is the only major religion to do away with the rule of general benevolence found in all others - including Christianity's "Golden Rule." Instead of advocating universal love and charity, the Quran distinguishes between believers and unbelievers, drawing a sharp distinction in the value of each group and laying the foundation for discrimination and dehumanization (see Is the Quran Hate Propaganda? (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Quran-Hate.htm)).
The Quran repeatedly stresses Muhammad's claim to being a prophet. Those who accept it are morally superior to those who don't. Muslims will receive the highest reward in paradise while the non-believers will suffer egregious torment in hell - as well as a "painful punishment" in this life.
Grammatical, theological and scientific errors abound within the Quran, but they are often "explained away" through elaborate and complicated theories that may seem absurd to more objective students - even if such sophistry reinforces the faith of those who will believe that the book is perfect in every way regardless of what it contains (to say otherwise is to incur a death sentence).
The exaggerative praise that accompanies the Quran (a book that literally tells Muslim men that they may keep women as sex slaves) makes Christian fundamentalist claims about the Bible "containing God's word" seem rather tame by comparison. Syllables of the Quran continue to be committed to memory with a level of fanaticism that has not diminished over the generations.
Allah apparently spoke in the obscure Quraish dialect, which few Arabs at the time understood all that well (and even fewer still today). This is significant because Muslim apologists often use this point advantageously, particularly with regard to the passages of the Quran that are contrary to modern sensibilities. Often the apologist will cynically insist that such verses have a different meaning in the "original Arabic" (even if this alternate meaning seems to have eluded fourteen centuries worth of Arabic-Islamic scholars).
The most honest English-language versions of the Quran are probably the earlier ones (Yusuf Ali, Pickthal and Shakir). More recent translations are usually tainted by the personal preferences of the interpreter, which is very often dictated by the palatability of contemporary Western tastes.
A quick test for determining whether a version of the Quran is true or "politically correct" is to turn to verse 4:34 and check whether the word "beat" or "scourge" is used in the instruction to discipline belligerent wives. If it is there, then the copy is probably closer to the original Arabic than the more recent "whitewashed" versions.
If you are serious about acquiring a Quran, however, then also confirm that verses 4:24, 23:6, 33:50 and 70:30 all stay faithful to the Arabic by using the word 'captive,' 'slave,' or 'those whom thy right hand possesses' in reference to the women authorized by Allah for a man's sexual use. Contemporary translators are notorious for ignoring the original Arabic and pretending that Muhammad is speaking only of wives, when, in fact, it is evident from the text that he distinguishes between wives and non-wives.
The Quran distributed by CAIR, Muhammad Asad's "The Message of the Quran," should be avoided by serious inquirers. It is a 20th century Westernized translation that is designed to manipulate the naive reader into preferred conclusions by changing the wording of unflattering verse and offering mitigating commentary to convince readers that they are not seeing what they are really seeing.
We recommend the highly readable non-Muslim translation (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0978552881?tag=thereligionof-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0978552881&adid=0TJDB7B2RDY4W69NAEYJ&) from CSPI (or the abridged (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0978552849?tag=thereligionof-20&camp=14573&creative=327641&linkCode=as1&creativeASIN=0978552849&adid=0NH18R24K51N1RH60FE5&) version) or the Noble Quran (http://www.thenoblequran.com/sps/nbq/). It is best to balance out one translation with occasional references to others, including to the MSA website (http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/), which contains the Pickthall, Shakir and Yusuf Ali Muslim translations.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 09:11 AM
you're still copying and pasting from THAT site, WHAT DO YOU KNOW

NOT WHAT THEY TELLING YOU

i already told you my exact thoughts on that site and you still choose to post from there

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 09:22 AM
What I know is what I read and see.
What I read on that site, totally legit site btw, is what the Quran says about various subjects. Quoted directly from the holy book. They got their sources straight.
What I see is violence against women and non Muslims in Islamic countries. I see this on the news, see videos and pictures on websites depicting slaughtering unbelievers, hanging homosexuals and stoning women.

Yes you told me what you think of that site, but never really explained what is wrong with it. You can't even begin to refute the truth. And I think you just don't like what you're reading.

Dr. Simon Hurt
03-01-2011, 09:23 AM
Although Islam does seem to be implicitly sadistic, it's never really condoned the use violence for pleasure. More a means to an end, like genocide or enslavement.


it's amazing how much the major religions have in common.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 09:27 AM
it's amazing how much the major religions have in common.

truth
just like you have the good aspects of religion or ways of life you got the bad and sadly were more bombarded with the bad then the good (which is televised all over the media) i remember this new reporter the old due withe the earring forget his name actually chastise this female news reporter when she made a derogatory mark about Muslims, unfortunate they fire him for being outspoken.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 09:30 AM
What I know is what I read and see.
What I read on that site, totally legit site btw, is what the Quran says about various subjects. Quoted directly from the holy book. They got their sources straight.
What I see is violence against women and non Muslims in Islamic countries. I see this on the news, see videos and pictures on websites depicting slaughtering unbelievers, hanging homosexuals and stoning women.

Yes you told me what you think of that site, but never really explained what is wrong with it. You can't even begin to refute the truth. And I think you just don't like what you're reading.

i think i just told you with the things that were taken out of context

"they got there sources straight" says you
and like i said before the site isnt for islam

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 09:46 AM
i think i just told you with the things that were taken out of context

"they got there sources straight" says you
and like i said before the site isnt for islam
Ah I now see you edited your post.

Yes, all my quotes are from that site. And that site quotes the real translations of the Quran and not the watered down westernised version. The people in Islamic countries are reading the verses I quoted and it shows.

I don't care how much out of context it is, there is nothing you can wrap around those verses making them any less hateful. And yes that site is subjective, but that doesn't mean incorrect by default.

"O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who
are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,
and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty"
Qur'an, Sura 9:123

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index_files/QuranQuotes.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 09:49 AM
again its against and ive talk to muslims from yemen

if you interested in islam dont condone that site

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 10:02 AM
We're going in circles now and every post you make seems to make less and less sense. You go believe what you will and if you want to believe that the Quran preaches equality of man, woman, believers and unbelievers, so be it. No verse from the actual Quran can change your mind so it seems, so why bother. It's all about how you (mis)interpret those words as long as you don't practise what is said, I don't care what fairytale you believe in.

Dr. Simon Hurt
03-01-2011, 10:10 AM
truth
just like you have the good aspects of religion or ways of life you got the bad and sadly were more bombarded with the bad then the good (which is televised all over the media) i remember this new reporter the old due withe the earring forget his name actually chastise this female news reporter when she made a derogatory mark about Muslims, unfortunate they fire him for being outspoken.

organized religion in general is a rusty set of shackles around the ankles of human progress

chea

Mumm Ra
03-01-2011, 10:14 AM
fuck yo religions
http://ithuglife.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/dave-chappelle-fuck-yo-couch.gif




fuck em!

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 11:00 AM
Fatal, you're an apologist for disgusting beliefs.

People like you are repugnant, fundamentalists are more human.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 11:06 AM
again you dont know my beliefs i wont argue with you

Mumm Ra
03-01-2011, 11:06 AM
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1065518_o.gif
now lets bring back the tittays

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 11:07 AM
^^^lol

here he go

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 11:10 AM
again you dont know my beliefs i wont argue with you
He didn't say anything about your beliefs.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab52/robochrist/6fa04404.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 11:12 AM
re-read his post, i simply stated his does know my beliefs or my views

ALOT of what i can post on this site you nor bateman or tsa or prepare for

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 11:13 AM
I did, now you re-read his post.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 11:22 AM
In reference to your article you posted its Total BS from almost the first line .

Qur'an is not human speech and does not confirm and need not confirm to human ordering or normal logical stucture of human works.

Let me show you a simple coherence from the first two surahs of the Quran

Guide us to the straight path - [1:6]

This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah -[2:2]

In the opening chapter , you ask for guidance and the guidance is found in the second verse of the next chapter . There is so much more .


The allegation about "Say" is false. Quran is a living book memorized by thousands upon thousands from the time of the Prophet .



I can refer you to an expert on the topic - Nouman Ali Khan .


BaS5NsvZ4yM

TSA
03-01-2011, 11:33 AM
You guys can say all you want about islam but i've seen the effects of islam on a society with my own two eyes.

when i read or see statistics about nigeria im usually shocked and im in disbelief. We're im from is a middle income country. Though it's not the US and Canada, this for sure not Haiti.

but the statistics constantly say Haiti

so i spoke to my cousins that have traveled the country and the result is unanimous. the muslim half of the country is so abysmally poor that it sets off the statistics on the country as a whole.

The only difference between the progressive christian states, which are building light rail systems and monorails in their capitals, and the muslim ones, which are push for Sharia law and segregated buses for men and women, is Islam.

You're constantly hearing of riots, and attacks on christians in these parts. Were im from is extremely stable, my parents think the US is dangerous compared to where they're from, but the muslim north is completely steeped in violence, sexism, bigotry, and regressive fanaticism.

The irony? the CHRISTIANS are the oppressed minority if there is one. The muslims have ran the government for 70% of the country's existence. THEY were the ones favored by the british, they have literally no excuse other then islam.




this this something im seeing and living, you can't tell me Islam has 'respect for women' because in those states women are basically cattle. Pat (or however said it) is right. Their belief isn't in respecting or upholding women, it's in respecting and upholding women if they're obedient and killing or maiming them if otherwise.


everyone can respect and uphold the house dog, but you're still going to cut it's balls off, and sometimes break it's windpipe so it doesn't bark.


Islam may sound good in theory to apologists and the idealistic, but in practice it creates populations obsessed with female obedience and violence. Most of these countries cut off the clitoris of female babies, sometimes at the expense of the baby's life, so that it doesn't grow up to enjoy sex and thus has no sex drive.


this is where islam has taken it's portion of the world. I would say the religion is the worst cancer on all 7 continents right now.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 11:35 AM
again you dont know my beliefs i wont argue with you

You're an apologist for disgusting beliefs.

I don't know what your beliefs are, this is true, but why are you defending something so repugnant if you don't even believe in it?

Islam makes people do foul things, and you want to defend this.

Yeah, you're a morally outstanding citizen.

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Like I said, I won't bother arguing anymore. Bateman already said it, you're an apologist for a savage desert ideology. That's all there is to it.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 11:40 AM
You're an apologist for disgusting beliefs.

I don't know what your beliefs are, this is true, but why are you defending something so repugnant if you don't even believe in it?

Islam makes people do foul things, and you want to defend this.

Yeah, you're a morally outstanding citizen.

didnt i say i was for i said i was AGAINST THIS get your facts straight

TSA
03-01-2011, 11:43 AM
I have dated a muslim as well and she's told me what it's like in her household. Nobody questions their father. If she comes home at 10 o clock she's beat and her brothers can go and come as they please.

Their mother as obedient to their 11 year old brother when the dad was at work.
She doesn't like being around muslim men cause they're sexist and won't even shake her hand.

there was even a situation where a 15 year old (female) cousin of hers was doing stuff with a 43 year old uncle of hers (incest is VERY common in the muslim world as cousin to cousin relations are normal and in very traditional settings, encouraged).

The 15 year old was beaten and sent back to her home country where she was forced to marry some guy that was basically using her for papers.
they 43 year old man was allowed to walk free, nobody even questioned him.


the rank of women in the muslim world is that of cattle and the only thing the muslim world holds in common is this repression of women, and islam.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 11:46 AM
didnt i say i was for i said i was AGAINST THIS get your facts straight

You did you fucking liar, you're a conniving, contradictory mess when it comes to "debating" religion, as most of the "faithful" are.

I asked if you subscribed to Islams view on women, which is to subjugate them and treat them as property.

You instantly defended Islam as a religion which treated women as equals and did not promote the subjugation of women.

In fact, you defended it passionately and wrote many long posts about it.

Now you want to play that down because i'm calling you out for being amoral.

Again, given what Jasper and I have posted here, if you want to continuing argue it, you're just proving my point.

These "scriptures" speak for themselves, yet you feel the need to reiterate constantly that they have been taken out of context and interpretted incorrectly.

Once again, proving my point that you are an unashamed apologists for abhorrent religious ideologies, as the vast majority of moderates are.

TSA
03-01-2011, 11:51 AM
Its so pathetic too because her dad claims to be a man of learning and she goes on and on about how smart he is and he's a fucking 55 year old man that believes in spirits and ghosts and magic. There's no such a thing as intellectual growth in that community because were islam is negated they chose islam over ration.

all the women are dying to escape the life and i feel bad for them because they're stuck and it's like dying to escape your family (which is important to them)

One of the saddest things is at the mosque, men pray at the front near the preacher and clit-free women and children are in a seperate room and watch the preacher through the a big window among crying clitless babies.


it's the most pathetic state of social organization in the world. billions of people led to believe the problems in the world are women's clits and jews.

fuck these fags dude.
i hate arabs and their retard doctrine.

Fatal Guillotine
03-01-2011, 11:52 AM
and like i told you time and time again that site is against islam (PERIOD) also you posted the entries and i just answered them, i dont agree nor will i ever agree with that

like i told you before they are many who dont follow the quran accordingly

IrOnMaN
03-01-2011, 11:55 AM
i hate arabs and their retard doctrine.

Maybe it's because their customs seem harsh to you, maybe even disgusting.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 11:56 AM
Which is a good thing, following the koran correctly would mean killing and enslaving hundreds of people.

These people behaviour wise are worse than moderates.

Moderates are just a mess morally, and are quick to defend foul religions even though they personally would not act in that manner.

Both sets of people are unjust as a result of their religious beliefs.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-01-2011, 12:00 PM
Its so pathetic too because her dad claims to be a man of learning and she goes on and on about how smart he is and he's a fucking 55 year old man that believes in spirits and ghosts and magic. There's no such a thing as intellectual growth in that community because were islam is negated they chose islam over ration.

all the women are dying to escape the life and i feel bad for them because they're stuck and it's like dying to escape your family (which is important to them)

One of the saddest things is at the mosque, men pray at the front near the preacher and clit-free women and children are in a seperate room and watch the preacher through the a big window among crying clitless babies.


it's the most pathetic state of social organization in the world. billions of people led to believe the problems in the world are women's clits and jews.

fuck these fags dude.
i hate arabs and their retard doctrine.

Yeah it's painful to see, and Muslims want "religious freedom" in order to influence society.

To be fair though, other religious people want these freedoms also.

They also demand tax free status as if they are fucking charities (which they clearly are not) and impose their beliefs upon all facets of society.

TSA
03-01-2011, 12:01 PM
dude, fuck paragraphs lol, fuck arabs and fuck muslims, they're faggots by creed.
Can you imagine living in one of those dickhole countries? and on top of all that there's no water? dude wtf?! LOL fuck that shit

bitches fucking their cousins and shit.
having 1 eyebrow and no clit with bush

all bush and no chocolaty juicy clit at the center of the bushy pop dude fuck that
im so glad i wasn't born into that ignorance.

i remember listening to the muslim program on the radio one day that my cd player wasn't working. Dude was going on and on about how the egyptians should stop protesting because it's against islam, and that in islam you have to be obedient to your leader no matter what, basically saying these ppl were anti islam and trying to mobilize listeners to do something against them.
wtf?

dude fuck these fags. Have you ever tried to buy a car from an arab? LOL wtf kind of human beings are those. They're fucking petty THIEVES and hypocrits of the highest order. This Cunt-or-shun-ist was trying to tell my brother he couldn't buy a FLY arab scarf back when they were 'in' cause the guy said he wasn't muslim. WTF? in america? dude fuck your life.

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Dude was going on and on about how the egyptians should stop protesting because it's against islam, and that in islam you have to be obedient to your leader no matter what, basically saying these ppl were anti islam and trying to mobilize listeners to do something against them.
No wonder there's no democracy in Islamic countries.

Robert
03-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Lol, let's be real here.

The texts of all religions hold within them wicked ideologies. (That is not to say that these texts don't also provide good information on how to live your life.)

A fundamentalist invariably conforms to all religious ideologies both wicked and good within the text they subscribe to (which is largely dictated by where they were born.) I don't think that's really debatable. There's certainly a great deal of evidence to support it.

Religious people tend to argue that you can take a fundamentalist approach to any text or ideology while knowing full well that the entity that is God provides an underlying and undenieble truth (an excuse if you like) to all words written within a religious doctrine.

Fundamentalists are the only "true" followers of religion. Moderates, a term for religious people who pick and choose what they would like to believe and disbelieve within their religious text, are not "true" followers of that religion.

I don't think this point can be argued. If you truly believe in a God then you will also believe the words of that God's scriptures unless of course you have doubts about whether that God is the "truth".

As far as I'm concerned, hedging your bets implies uncertainty about the validity of the religion you follow. You just can't have it both ways.

Of course, I don't care what religion you follow. I only care when the brainwashed and empty-headed (fundamentalists) try to push their despicable, wicked beliefs onto me, other free-minded individuals, or the poor and helpless.

Then we have apologists, the worst kind of moderates. I'm not really sure why people like this feel threatened when the evil, decadent aspects of their religion are exposed. Why defend them when you have already shunned them yourself? (whether you'd like to admit that or not.)

Tim and time again, religion makes good people do wicked things.

TSA
03-01-2011, 12:39 PM
dude, fuck paragraphs lol, fuck arabs and fuck muslims, they're faggots by creed.
Can you imagine living in one of those dickhole countries? and on top of all that there's no water? dude wtf?! LOL fuck that shit

bitches fucking their cousins and shit.
having 1 eyebrow and no clit with bush

all bush and no chocolaty juicy clit at the center of the bushy pop dude fuck that
im so glad i wasn't born into that ignorance.

i remember listening to the muslim program on the radio one day that my cd player wasn't working. Dude was going on and on about how the egyptians should stop protesting because it's against islam, and that in islam you have to be obedient to your leader no matter what, basically saying these ppl were anti islam and trying to mobilize listeners to do something against them.
wtf?

dude fuck these fags. Have you ever tried to buy a car from an arab? LOL wtf kind of human beings are those. They're fucking petty THIEVES and hypocrits of the highest order. This Cunt-or-shun-ist was trying to tell my brother he couldn't buy a FLY arab scarf back when they were 'in' cause the guy said he wasn't muslim. WTF? in america? dude fuck your life.

Robert
03-01-2011, 01:08 PM
I'm glad you thought that post was so interesting you had to post it twice.

Why stop at muslims though? What's the distinction between fundamentalism in islam in comparison to christianity or even scientology?

At the end of the day, it's all the fucking same to me. Why limit yourself to one doctrine anway?

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 01:21 PM
What's the distinction between fundamentalism in islam in comparison to christianity or even scientology?

A couple of hundred bombings and attacks per year.

Robert
03-01-2011, 01:34 PM
A couple of hundred bombings and attacks per year.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious but that wasn't really what I was saying. Maybe I didn't make myself particularly clear, but I think that religious fundamentalism is dangerous no matter what the religion.

There are other factors in the Middle East that have promoted the spread of fundamentalism that have nothing to do with the innate nature of Islam, such as the marriage of the state and religion.

Do you think the same thing couldn't happen with other religions given the right circumstances? (or hasn't in the past for that matter.)

EAGLE EYE
03-01-2011, 01:35 PM
w/thread

diggy
03-01-2011, 01:46 PM
^^Outside looking in. Most of you believe the hype. Those fundamentalists are not even following the fundamentals of the Quran; they follow hadith which is a set of books written about 250 to 300 yrs after the prophet left. Many things in hadith contradict the Quran.

Plus pulling translated verses out of context is not doing you any good either because arabic words could mean many things based on the context plus they were translated in many modern versions according to the Saudi rulership definitions, according to my research.

The Quran is a book that covers many topics NOT in order. In order to gain understanding, one must gather many verses on a topic and use logic to gain understanding. Just reading one translated verse out of context without reference to the other verses dealing with the subject leads to misunderstanding.

There is a movement going on right this moment exposing the liars and hypocrites who call themselves muslims that misunderstand the message. It is a progressive movement that corrects the misunderstandings and differences. It studies the Quran as it should be studied and rejects hadith. Educate yourselves.

Professor Poopsnagle
03-01-2011, 01:57 PM
Thanks for pointing out the obvious but that wasn't really what I was saying. Maybe I didn't make myself particularly clear, but I think that religious fundamentalism is dangerous no matter what the religion.

There are other factors in the Middle East that have promoted the spread of fundamentalism that have nothing to do with the innate nature of Islam, such as the marriage of the state and religion.

Do you think the same thing couldn't happen with other religions given the right circumstances? (or hasn't in the past for that matter.)
The Islam is the only religion that really does advocate that sort of fundamentalism. There is no new testament of the Quran. It also preaches Sharia law. The Sharia law prohibits any kind of seperation of state and religion.

But yes, under certain circumstances, there is a possibility of a Westboro Baptist Church kind of fundamentalistic country. Not likely though.

Dr. Simon Hurt
03-01-2011, 05:01 PM
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/1065518_o.gif



now lets bring back the tittays


I agree. Fuck the religious nonsene

http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/43/f885fc0a429646cbac8d8761a914cf6c/l.jpg

http://a3.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/6/b4a312cc21934774b55a43afb4dbaa54/l.png

http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/21/1079bd9ef7bfdad402ffa38bcb39fddb/l.jpg

let's get back on topic fags

CEITEDMOFO
03-01-2011, 05:33 PM
THATS A NICE BROAD, BUT PRETTY DARK BITcHES IS RARE, AND ALL OF THEM ROCKIN WIGs

TSA
03-02-2011, 02:01 AM
Some of them are even wearing makeup

EAGLE EYE
03-02-2011, 02:47 AM
You know..


I used to be pretty open minded and respectful of Islam and other dweeb religions on this board, but after seeing how pathetic these moderates, fundamentalists and other bird brains fggts (that stay on the defense) truly are - I have no choice but to lash out and make them break down mentally.

i found the pick of the litter

http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=105681

Robert
03-02-2011, 02:58 AM
Fucking Hell! Now that guy has definitely been skullfucked a few too many times.

G.O.D.PT3
03-02-2011, 08:04 AM
omo, make una bring una paddy for naija and see
http://i55.tinypic.com/24esy0i.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs397.snc4/45977_420765122778_568842778_4959537_5128652_n.jpg
fat....


daaaaang......me i love dark as much as i love a good ol redbone....

Fatal Guillotine
03-02-2011, 01:59 PM
the manuscript of the Qur'an found at San'a, Yemen, is not the "original". It is a copy that was found behind the wall inside a Masjid. It is missing Surahs and the order is not the same as the one we have today. Probably because whoever wrote it down intended it for personal use and copied only the Surahs he would need.

Professor Poopsnagle
03-02-2011, 03:01 PM
Fuck off.

june181972
12-26-2011, 11:23 PM
How ironic it is that in a thread where naked women are getting posted and put on display, people choose to criticize the manner in which Muslims treat women. Though a burqa with the eyes barely exposed may be extreme, this is the other extreme that gets justified “ideologically” around here:
http://www.eviplist.com/flyers/49ff5a1f4ad67.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs397.snc4/45977_420765122778_568842778_4959537_5128652_n.jpg
http://cdn.bellanaija.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Miss-Universe-2010-Ghana-1.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gx2-OWvIX7w/TRo9O87nJnI/AAAAAAAAAlc/_wvvvvzHI_g/s1600/bria-myles.jpg
http://superfreshkids.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/11.jpg?w=480
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Xgt-HQVP8O8/TR-dOxYOiaI/AAAAAAAAACM/uhErwMHATgE/s1600/300_onweagba1.jpg
http://www.hautefashionafrica.com/wp-content/gallery/oluchi-orlandi/07_oonweagba_17.jpg
http://www.beyondhollywood.com/gallery/stills3/qdig-files/converted-images/oluchi-onweagba-061130/med_oluchi-onweagba-1.jpghttp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_lsgHbQ2sDYw/TPaveXqeBKI/AAAAAAAABKc/iiXzCVzmnz8/s320/vlcsnap-2010-12-01-15h25m01s36.png
LOL at the above being the “proper” or “just” or “acceptable” way of handling a woman



Men and women are not "equal"
Women can neither protect nor control themselves emotionally, nor can they protect themselves physically. A man, with wisdom, along with a sense of moral obligation and duty, is a degree above the woman.

That women’s liberation garbage that the west likes to portray as being so progressive and just, objectifies women, and weakens the family structure. Not to mention that there is a big chunk of the population that can be taxed when the woman is forced into the work place.

Some of the same people that criticize Islam on this site, have something negative to say about any ideology, organization, or school of thought. It is quite cheap and cowardly to do so when these same people never take a definitive stance on anything, aside from: “I hate this,” or “that is stupid,” or “you people disgust me because you think or believe so & so”
Since these types don’t stand for or believe in anything, they wrongly see it as “extreme” when someone is ready and willing to fight for what they believe in or stand for

If you are not a Muslim, and you dislike Islam so much, how the hell do you come off telling people how to interpret the Holy Qur’an. Theses people really come here and post that they have the “real” understanding of the scriptures. Then call someone else an “apologist” or a “moderate,” which then leads to the bizarre accusation of not being a “true follower.” A hater of Islam making the discrimination between a “true” and “untrue” follower of Islam, bitch please.

Then when one explains the historical context in which the Holy Qur’an was written/revealed, these professional haters claim that that history is irrelevant.
If one chooses to analyze a particular text, the historical context of said text must also be looked at. This process is basic and necessary to any legitimate analysis of any text.

P.S.: How one interprets or perceives any particular thing is quite often indicative of the condition of their own heart/mind.

P.P.S.: The Black man is the original man, of course our women, dark women, are the “shit”

check two
12-26-2011, 11:28 PM
lol