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LHX
10-25-2005, 12:16 PM
can you imagine what this place was like before the first lie was told?

do you realize what a huge technological achievement the lie is?



everybodys favorite evolution topic is the man-ape thing

but

just for a moment

think about what would have to take place in order for one animal to lie to another animal

lies

think about it


think about your neighborhood raccoons lying in order to get more food for themselves



this is an often overlooked quality

physical evolution is whatever
yall can debate that until you are 6-feet-under (which you probably will)

but nobody seems to stop and take notice just how unnatural (retarded? - i dont know the right word to use there) it is for something on this planet to broadcast misleading information to another thing on this planet





and it starts young boys and girls

santa claus
tooth fairies

kids grow up thinking that shit is okay




this shit is gonna get messy

LHX
10-25-2005, 01:33 PM
damn yo

thats some interesting perspective

Sweet6
10-25-2005, 01:41 PM
The first lie was the illusion of choice.

Jesus Shootin Heroin
10-25-2005, 01:50 PM
I lied yesterday. but it was only to a dead cow.

I feel no shame.

Prince Rai
10-25-2005, 02:06 PM
the first lie ever told would have to be god stating that he created something that was already there.

was it a lie or an explanation to a young mind?

after years of believing that santa existed.. cos it seemed like he could when it xmas feel me? i matured and realised whats really up..!


if the child grows and sees the truth slowly.. isnt that knowledge more manifest in him??

are lies that bad????




ok im just adding views none necessarily reflect mine entirely

Os3y3ris
10-25-2005, 02:09 PM
Lying is very natural. Does a possum play dead? If a cat takes your food, will it hide it? Does a cat puff its tail to look bigger? So yeh, the lying, bluffing, misleading and desception are all very natural. You have some creatures whose very presence is a lie. You have false wasps and what not that look a lot like wasps, but can't sting. Why do they look like wasps? So that you think they CAN sting. In the deep ocean there's a fish with a "worm" growing out of its head. This worm glows in the dark, making it the only thing visible. When something comes for to eat the supposed worm, it devours them.

So really, how unnatural is a lie?

SubtleEnergies
10-25-2005, 06:19 PM
I have thought about this kind of thing for while actually starting with something Carlos Casteneda said. He said the world is made up of energy. All interlinked and interdependent.

However, out of necessity we divide things from ourselves out of a need to survive.

See, when a lions coming at a human viewing him as a part of the same greater whole as you isn't conducive to the survival of that human. So you seperate him as an enemy to your person and spear him or whatever.

I see lies as a similar thing. They arise out of a person seeing others as seperate to themselves in order to promote their own situation at the expense of another's. These are lies people benefit from. I don't about other lies such as Santa Clause etc.

KidSha
10-25-2005, 10:22 PM
the first lie ever told would have to be god stating that he created something that was already there.
Just a lil mis-take :)

But i dont get this?
God never stated that he created something that was already there, it was humans that take actions.

explain.

Peace

Kriszy Substance
10-26-2005, 01:20 AM
Good thread...better than a lot of what is in KTL. I saw some good sides from everyone on this one. Lying is an interesting topic. Lying to benefit ourselves is natural for sure. I wonder what everyone would think about lying to someone else to try to benefit them. Like say, my girlfriend said her hair looked awful...and it maybe didnt look great but I tell her it does look good. Do you think that is lying to benefit her, or is it selfish and benefiting myself...or both?

Lots of Love

SubtleEnergies
10-26-2005, 10:22 PM
Hahah that's benefitting you! Coz you know tellin her it looks good is easier ;)

K.E.G.
10-26-2005, 11:24 PM
and appropriate.


I think lying is animal tactic. It is just a shame humans can speak them. That brings being disloyal to a whole new level

K.E.G.
10-26-2005, 11:25 PM
Hahah that's benefitting you! Coz you know tellin her it looks good is easier ;)
......and appropriate.


But I think lying is animal tactic. It is just a shame humans can speak them. That brings being disloyal to a whole new level

SubtleEnergies
10-27-2005, 02:12 AM
Yeah that's what I was gettin' at in my earlier post. It's a survival thing.

Punch
10-27-2005, 02:15 AM
Lying is very natural. Does a possum play dead? If a cat takes your food, will it hide it? Does a cat puff its tail to look bigger? So yeh, the lying, bluffing, misleading and desception are all very natural. You have some creatures whose very presence is a lie. You have false wasps and what not that look a lot like wasps, but can't sting. Why do they look like wasps? So that you think they CAN sting. In the deep ocean there's a fish with a "worm" growing out of its head. This worm glows in the dark, making it the only thing visible. When something comes for to eat the supposed worm, it devours them.

So really, how unnatural is a lie?
exactly

Prince Rai
10-27-2005, 07:14 AM
peace n blessings.. havent been here for a while

just to put things into perspective.

WE LOVE THE TRUTH.

that is the truth, even when the truth hurts.. at least it has taught us something..

now then...

without a lie.. there exists no notion of truth in essence.. everything would be as it is.. without us having to question things deeply enough.

feel me?

truth is a balanced opposite to the negative notion of a lie. that is nature right there.

Prince Rai
10-27-2005, 07:16 AM
Lying is very natural. Does a possum play dead? If a cat takes your food, will it hide it? Does a cat puff its tail to look bigger? So yeh, the lying, bluffing, misleading and desception are all very natural.

just the truth right there.. had there been no lie in the possum playing dead.. os3y3ris wouldnnt give us that truth.

Born Ruler I
10-27-2005, 08:10 AM
What other creatures lie to themselves, though?

There are humans who are living lies, even unto themselves.

One

Prince Rai
10-27-2005, 08:19 AM
What other creatures lie to themselves, though?

There are humans who are living lies, even unto themselves.

One
what you are showing is clear, you are just clearly stating that lies are still no good thing which they are not, if we can be truthful then be truthful, a lie stays part of nature until we know it can be improved.

but in terms of lies in some creatures.. these lies are not the lie that man has meant to the word lie,, it is protective deception which is useful to them.


the term lie has just three letters and one meaning... however its clear that in nature.. words are not sufficient..

peace n blessings Ruler

Born Ruler I
10-27-2005, 08:27 AM
Exactly.

One

Os3y3ris
10-27-2005, 11:32 AM
What other creatures lie to themselves, though?
I'd say any creature with a personality can do so.

Regardless, humans do about EVERYTHING consciously and very little "naturally". Why would deception be any different? Its clearly a natural phenomena and hardly a useless one when used properly.

Born Ruler I
10-27-2005, 11:54 AM
'Person' ality? Why attribute human characteristics to non humans?

its clear that in nature.. words are not sufficient..
One

Os3y3ris
10-27-2005, 12:45 PM
I attribute that characteristic to animals because they possess it. I have two cats. One is mean, a tad timid and very intelligent. The other is cowardly, friendly and playful. Same creature, brother and sister in fact, but they act much differently. In humans this would be called personality. It best describes their different mindsets and mannerisms as well.

Born Ruler I
10-28-2005, 08:37 AM
Is that projection of human characteristics based on our limited understanding of animal behavior, or a true and actual assessment?

One

Os3y3ris
10-28-2005, 10:09 AM
Its a true and actual assessment. I've had them for over ten years and I can see that they have different reactions to the same stimuli despite being the same species, siblings and being raised in the same environment. Now, they ARE of different sex, but that doesn't account for things like their entertainment habits. My male cat likes to knead socks. I think he has more than I do. The female cat doesn't care for them. My male cat comes when he's called. Female cat doesn't. My male cat attacks people who annoy him all the time by swatting the hand, but pulling back the claws. My female cat usually smacks people in the chin, only after some provocation.

Point is, they have different character traits that indicate indivuduality and different cognitive processes. They're animals, yes, and they behave like it, but there's a difference between them and something like a snake.

LHX
10-28-2005, 10:36 AM
i think we might be losing track of the lie here

a lie
separated from deception

as in - you have the choice to speak the truth
but
in your judgement you deem that it would be better to send somebody in the wrong direction

what is the reason for this?
the only thing i can think of is that people attach their self-preservation to false criteria

but
even saying that
where did the false criteria come from in the first place?


we have been sent in the wrong direction repeatedly
and
in the beginning
at the very root of it all
it is becoming more and more obvious that this was done intentionally



1. strip a person of knowledge
2. plant in them trick knowledge
3. send them into the world which they have false views about (centered around fear)
4. being what they are - they will find a way to thrive
5. no surprise that the ability to thrive for many people is centered around being afraid and lying to other people

Os3y3ris
10-28-2005, 10:42 AM
what is the reason for this?
the only thing i can think of is that people attach their self-preservation to false criteria
How so? Misdirection may be needed to save your ass. For example, the local thugs knock on the door and ask if your brother's home. HELL NOT HE'S NOT HOME. He could be standing right there in the door next to you, but you say otherwise.

100pr00f
10-28-2005, 10:49 AM
fiest lie was marry telling her love when she gave birth that she was still a vergin so she couldnt get introuble for cheating
and found a way to make money off of it witch brings the 2nd lie
god created my baby with out a mans sperm
its gods son

haha

blackwisdom
10-29-2005, 12:15 PM
are lies that bad????I feel/think that they are. We try to protect people with them, when in actually we're hurting and hindering them with them. If we just tell the facts then individuals will be more empowered. Truth and facts empower people. Imagine if we were told 100% truth from birth. We'd be trully divine creatures. We'd probably be afraid to lie because we would look like a fool infront of everyone and held strictly accountable due to the higher order of minds. A few people couldn't rule over the masses unjustly. Wisdom, Knowledge, Culture, Understanding, Justice, Equality, Food, Clothing, Shelter, Love, Peace, Happiness will reign supreme.

If lies didn't exist we would be divine. As a matter of fact we are, but we just don't know it, becasue of a lie.

Take it easy
Peace

Prince Rai
10-29-2005, 02:17 PM
I feel/think that they are. We try to protect people with them, when in actually we're hurting and hindering them with them. If we just tell the facts then individuals will be more empowered. Truth and facts empower people. Imagine if we were told 100% truth from birth. We'd be trully divine creatures. We'd probably be afraid to lie because we would look like a fool infront of everyone and held strictly accountable due to the higher order of minds. A few people couldn't rule over the masses unjustly. Wisdom, Knowledge, Culture, Understanding, Justice, Equality, Food, Clothing, Shelter, Love, Peace, Happiness will reign supreme.

If lies didn't exist we would be divine. As a matter of fact we are, but we just don't know it, becasue of a lie.

Take it easy
Peace
peace wisdom... i was playing advocate there!


but you are very correct i think you said what u did very well!


as for what u did say.. the truth here is that the divine you seek is utopian in nature as lie is part of nature or has been made manifest by humans.

its part of us.. now lets produce the opposite the truth and become divine the long route

blackwisdom
10-29-2005, 02:33 PM
^I like that. I had a "discussion" with one of my co-workers a couple years ago. I was trying to tell him that when you lie you're really being yourself, because anything that comes from you is an honest part of you. Whether the information or feelings that come out of your mouth or actions is true or not is irrelavent; it is a part of what you are. You created it. He was trying to say that a lie isn't a real part of a person, but I said otherwise. We came to a mutual conclusion to agree to disagree. It's all good though. What you said reminded me of that.

Peace

Prince Rai
10-29-2005, 02:40 PM
yeh u are right... a lie is something made manifest by us.. in the sense that.. when we lie.. we cant help it cos it is what it is!

its natural the man way lol if u get me


but as long as there is the capacity to go to truth.. we are not doomed to fail

Koolish
10-29-2005, 11:31 PM
A man without a lie, is like a man without a penis. You all need one.
________
Squirting Lesbian (http://www.fucktube.com/categories/1006/lesbian/videos/1)

blackwisdom
10-30-2005, 10:36 AM
^With that mentality you don't need one.

Hotep

Stevan
10-30-2005, 05:43 PM
The First Lie Told To Us All Was That We Are Alive!!!

Os3y3ris
10-30-2005, 05:48 PM
Quit trying to be deep. Its shallow.

Stevan
10-30-2005, 05:56 PM
Deep? Shallow? Thats Right. See?

KBA7
10-31-2005, 12:49 PM
Lies r created out of fear 4 the truth consequences.

Civilison
10-31-2005, 01:52 PM
Peace LIGHT!

Lies, deception, sins etc... all the obstacle for the master to overcome

I am beginning to think that it would be weird living without these.

In my opinion, we cannot put these concepts in absolute terms because in absolute terms they really do not exist.

If there exists a lie, there exists the truth.
If there exists a deception, there exists guidance.
If there exists a sin, there exists divinity.

There words and realities define each other, within good there is bad and within bad there is good.

I do not sometimes understand the way this world operates, but I try not to question it.

Yes, it would be nice to live in a place with no "lies" but we would still have our thoughts and mentality to battle with.

We live in a correspondent world, if there was no "lies", there would be no need for "truth". There would be no screw if it wasn't for the screwdriver and vice versa.

I am beginning to feel quite content in this crazy world.

I understand where you are coming from, though.

In absolute terms, I believe a lie is a product of us humans getting information from external means. Meaning, we gain a knowledge of who we are from the world we physically see. We get knowledge from anywhere but where it truly exists - within us.

This creates a feeling of seperation and concurrently leads us into believing that we all are seperate realities. This furthers us into selfishness as we all want the best for us even if we get it at the expense of another human being. Lie is a tool to achieve that - power, control etc...

Yet in relative terms, that same person that lied to that other person just lied to himself/herself as well. At this moment the equation is balanced.

I believe this is the way things go. Nothing is ever left alone.

Peace to you!

Koolish
10-31-2005, 01:55 PM
everything has an antithesis. so without lies, there can be no truth.
________
HOW TO ROLL JOINTS (http://howtorollajoint.net/)

LHX
10-31-2005, 02:01 PM
Peace LIGHT!

Lies, deception, sins etc... all the obstacle for the master to overcome

I am beginning to think that it would be weird living without these.

In my opinion, we cannot put these concepts in absolute terms because in absolute terms they really do not exist.

If there exists a lie, there exists the truth.
If there exists a deception, there exists guidance.
If there exists a sin, there exists divinity.

There words and realities define each other, within good there is bad and within bad there is good.

I do not sometimes understand the way this world operates, but I try not to question it.

Yes, it would be nice to live in a place with no "lies" but we would still have our thoughts and mentality to battle with.

We live in a correspondent world, if there was no "lies", there would be no need for "truth". There would be no screw if it wasn't for the screwdriver and vice versa.

I am beginning to feel quite content in this crazy world.

I understand where you are coming from, though.

In absolute terms, I believe a lie is a product of us humans getting information from external means. Meaning, we gain a knowledge of who we are from the world we physically see. We get knowledge from anywhere but where it truly exists - within us.

This creates a feeling of seperation and concurrently leads us into believing that we all are seperate realities. This furthers us into selfishness as we all want the best for us even if we get it at the expense of another human being. Lie is a tool to achieve that - power, control etc...

Yet in relative terms, that same person that lied to that other person just lied to himself/herself as well. At this moment the equation is balanced.

I believe this is the way things go. Nothing is ever left alone.

Peace to you!
truth is not a question of whether it is needed or not

within 'lies' there is a lesson

the lesson is that of creation



the lie represents YOUR ability to create

what we are learning right now is how to be responsible with our ability to create

and what it means to have this ability




do not sell it short
it was a monumental day the first time a man purposely communicated to another man something he knew was untrue

it set this whole bitch in motion


balance in the universe always exists
but
from certain perspectives we come to understand the balancing process and experience it

like now

LHX
10-31-2005, 02:01 PM
everything has an antithesis. so without lies, there can be no truth.
nooooooooooooooooo way dude

LHX
07-21-2006, 07:46 AM
bump