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Prolifical ENG
10-27-2005, 12:51 PM
Some of you may already know the dimensions of this discussion....and some know where this term originated.

Since I am getting a minor in geograhy, I went through this argument many times and written on it etc. But this thread is still made, and fun to do again.

So what is it? And the question isnt "What is civilization?"....that is different and easier to define.

Yes, this thread distinguishes types of people


Who are the civilized people....who are uncivilized? Barbarians?

Malcom Guevera
10-27-2005, 01:08 PM
Civilization is a group of people living under one law within society. Those that disobey the law are uncivilized.

Triple B
10-27-2005, 02:41 PM
it's wrong to divide people into civilised and uncivilised people since that's an opinion created from ur own perpesctive on norms and values. No norm or value is absolutely true.

Aqueous Moon
10-27-2005, 02:52 PM
Peace
This is an interesting question. If you are coming from a geographical point of view in our present state of society, I would have to say that all third world countries are "uncivilized". Including the people within them.

It has to be taken into consideration that the idea of civilization is quite relative to your definition of the word. It has been documented that indeed, western society deemed anyone who was not in accordance to their way of life - in need for "civilization".

Whether they actually believed that or just used it as an excuse to conquer and dominate others is again, relative to your point of view.

I personally, see civilization as a mind - state. Although, these so - called "third world countries" are less technologically advanced and more economically impoverished they have proven to be a lot less barbaric than most western civilizations, who claim to be shining examples of great society in action.
Peace. Aqueous

Malcom Guevera
10-27-2005, 03:20 PM
these so - called "third world countries" are less technologically advanced and more economically impoverished they have proven to be a lot less barbaric than most western civilizations, who claim to be shining examples of great society in action.
Peace. AqueousIf these people in third world countries were to be put into this society in america would they be able to function in a civilized manner abd actually uplift this society ?

and

What signs of barbaric acts do people carry out in western civilization that represents a savage ?

Os3y3ris
10-27-2005, 03:42 PM
Right, because we know there's no wars in third world countries. Very civilized. Some developing nations ARE more peaceful, but often, the case is that they're too busy killing eachother or starving to be killing their neighbors.

Regardless, thats beside the point. IMO, civilization is productive coexistence with other humans. It does not imply external peace, acceptable (to you) cultural values, or all of the other nonsense people try to attack to it.

Aqueous Moon
10-27-2005, 03:47 PM
Peace Malcom Guevera -

IF people from thirld world countries were put in to american society they would probally hit the same glass ceiling that a lot of other ethnic people do when they try "function".

Remember, in western society, being a good citizen and functioning well has a lot to do with a person's financial, material, and democratic apirations.

So, If a 3rd world person is truly civilized - (in my definition of the word). It is more than likely that they would be highly enlightened, peaceful, ambitous, but still poor (on the relative scale of American economics).

Western civilization is infamous for using their religion, their war practices, advanced technology, and their mis-education as a way to dominate other people across the globe. This is savage behavior.
Peace, Aqueous

Triple B
10-27-2005, 08:48 PM
I personally, see civilization as a mind - state. Although, these so - called "third world countries" are less technologically advanced and more economically impoverished they have proven to be a lot less barbaric than most western civilizations, who claim to be shining examples of great society in action.quoted for truth, saw a video about this in my class contemporary architecture. They claimed that the wealth of such people does not exist in large buildings, telephone, internet, etc. (western culture) but in the strong social network around them. (gotto look it up agian, but I think that was the main point of the docu.)

Malcom Guevera
10-27-2005, 09:52 PM
Western civilization is infamous for using their religion, their war practices, advanced technology, and their mis-education as a way to dominate other people across the globe. This is savage behavior.
Peace, Aqueous
I cee, so if i were to use my CULTURE, SELF DEFENCE,INVENTIONS and EDUCATION to build an empire, and it just so happens some people are not able to keep up does that make it wrong that a percent of the population face the negative pole of what i feel is best for my empire ?

blackwisdom
10-27-2005, 09:59 PM
I can give a good "example" of what's civilized and what's uncivilized.

American colonist "scalping" indigenous people is uncivilized.

Kemet pioneering in all forms of mathmatics civilized.

The 12 Jewels to me define what a "civilization" needs to exist. The more Jewels that are compromised to more the "civilization" becomes "uncivilized."

http://img270.imageshack.us/img270/7470/sowetoschoolchildren9du.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://reg.imageshack.us/v_images.php)

I want to make a special note that states that conditions of forced slavery and many other factors have uncivilized many civilizations. It also noted that when a key trait such as Culture is eliminated that a people trully loose ties to true forms of civilization. (Please excuse my blured articulation. It's easy to think, but sometimes not always the simplest thing to write.)

Peace

Aqueous Moon
10-27-2005, 10:07 PM
I cee, so if i were to use my CULTURE, SELF DEFENCE,INVENTIONS and EDUCATION to build an empire, and it just so happens some people are not able to keep up does that make it wrong that a percent of the population face the negative pole of what i feel is best for my empire ?
Peace
No,..... But I dont 't think I 'm picking up on your point.
In my observations, there was no CULTURE associated with the evil practices that western civilization used to conquer the planet.
They sought to destroy culture.
Peace

blackwisdom
10-27-2005, 10:11 PM
Peace
No,..... But I dont 't think I 'm picking up on your point.
In my observations, there was no CULTURE associated with the evil practices that western civilization used to conquer the planet.
They sought to destroy culture.
PeaceIt goes deeper than that, but this is my overstanding.

Peace

Malcom Guevera
10-27-2005, 10:33 PM
there was no CULTURE associated with the evil practices that western civilization used to conquer the planet.
They sought to destroy culture.
Peace
Who do you think these Masons and other important figures are doing ? you beleive thier out to kill SLAVES ? BLACKS ? C'mon

People within a society have a role, a job, no one is out to destroy anyone else. Civilized people are civilized becuase they have the said ability while others have to be taught, poor or not, civilized or uncivilized, when you get a computer, you need a booklet to teach you how to operate the computer.

Aqueous Moon
10-27-2005, 10:41 PM
Peace
The ones in power want to stay in power.
And they will do what ever it takes to remain powerful.

They used their evil ways to get the power in the first place.
They use evil practices to sustain the power they have.

If I was to build an empire I would not do as they have done
they did it the wrong way.
Peace

Kephrem
10-27-2005, 11:47 PM
My breakdown of Civ-il-iz-ation is:

"Civ" meaning sieve, purify

"il" meaning illness (ignorance)

"iz" meaning eyes (mind)

"ation" meaning Asian, the original man from the East

To CIVILIZE is to purify the mind of the original Asian from ignorance.

PEACE

Aqueous Moon
10-27-2005, 11:55 PM
Peace Kephrem -^^
That really is on point.

Well said.
Peace

Os3y3ris
10-28-2005, 12:23 AM
IF people from thirld world countries were put in to american society they would probally hit the same glass ceiling that a lot of other ethnic people do when they try "function".[quote]

What makes you think they're "ethnic"?


[quote]Remember, in western society, being a good citizen and functioning well has a lot to do with a person's financial, material, and democratic apirations.
Bullshit. You can be a good citizen and function well regardless of circumstance. The poor can't function or be good citizens? Really? It doesn't take money to live righteously.

So, If a 3rd world person is truly civilized - (in my definition of the word). It is more than likely that they would be highly enlightened, peaceful, ambitous, but still poor (on the relative scale of American economics).
Why poor exactly? You can have dirt poor scumbags just as easily as you can have rich scumbags.

Western civilization is infamous for using their religion, their war practices, advanced technology, and their mis-education as a way to dominate other people across the globe. This is savage behavior.

This is bullshit. Read the bible or the Koran. Were not Muslims and Jews using warfare and religion to take land? Was Ghengis Khan not a conquerer? Zulu? How did revolutionary communism spread? Did it not reach Vietnam and China and Korea? Were the japanese not Nazis? So really, you wanna talk about Western culture, look at every other culture. 9/10 times, you'll find that one is just as savage as the next.

Aqueous Moon
10-28-2005, 01:21 AM
Peace
Ok. change the word ethnic to minority maybe that will make more sense.

I have already stated im previous posts that I feel the word "civilization " is relative to your own definition of it.

I also gave to point of views concerning that word.
1) western civilization' s definition of civilization
2) my definition of civilization

I think western civilization is fucked up. Any real enlightened person should not even want to be associated with this fucked up society.

And if a person really wants to be a good "citizen" in this society, that means they MUST conform to it.

As far as history goes, whatever country or people that follow western civilization's fucked up example are nothing more than tricks to this great prostitute, that we call Amereica (western civilization).

What ever way you wanna slice it Amereica is the pro at fucking other people.
Peace

Os3y3ris
10-28-2005, 01:35 AM
How about China, Japan, and North Korea, all experts and fucking people while NOT following Western examples?

tajeco
10-28-2005, 01:39 AM
I'm watching George Carlin on HBO, and he just mentioned how the "Civil War" is an oxy-moron. "Hello, how are you? (gun shot sound), sorry about that"

Born Ruler I
10-28-2005, 09:48 AM
A civilized person is one who is not a savage in pursuit of happiness.

What/who is a savage? What is the pursuit of happiness?

Would that help in defining being civilized, or would it muddy the waters?

One

Os3y3ris
10-28-2005, 10:57 AM
Whats wrong with the pursuit of happiness?

LHX
10-28-2005, 11:40 AM
civilized is a huge word

and it aint pretty for the uncivilized

Born Ruler I
10-28-2005, 03:17 PM
Nothing is wrong with the pursuit of happiness...

but being a savage in the pursuit of happiness can be problematic.

One

Os3y3ris
10-28-2005, 03:31 PM
True.

Prince Rai
10-28-2005, 04:28 PM
it's wrong to divide people into civilised and uncivilised people since that's an opinion created from ur own perpesctive on norms and values. No norm or value is absolutely true.
short answer but right answer.

CIVILised..

the word civil is what a group makes itself to be.. the "ised" describes ur part of that group..


uincivilised are the ones who arent part of that value tho.. thus the word has a right to exist.. but it also says that.. a uncivilised in cilviled somewhere else!

Kephrem
10-28-2005, 07:05 PM
The word "Civilization" also seems to describe the present Illusion that was set up contrary to nature.

Savage
2. Not civilized: barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, primitive, rude, uncivilized, uncultivated, uncultured, wild. Archaic uncivil. See culture/nature, wild/tame.

Prince Rai
10-29-2005, 07:54 AM
The word "Civilization" also seems to describe the present Illusion that was set up contrary to nature.

Savage
2. Not civilized: barbarian, barbaric, barbarous, primitive, rude, uncivilized, uncultivated, uncultured, wild. Archaic uncivil. See culture/nature, wild/tame.
you are right.
sad to see this..


relates to the topic LHX put up about lies being taught from early on!

but fortunately we have grown out of the trap and seek the truth.

KidSha
11-03-2005, 10:00 PM
A wise man learns to un-learn

Wamukota X
11-04-2005, 08:16 AM
Examples of " What is 'Civilized'? " are the aboriginal peoples of the Americas, Africa, Asia.

Non-civilized examples are the people of Europe.

Prolifical ENG
11-04-2005, 09:16 AM
Examples of " What is 'Civilized'? " are the aboriginal peoples of the Americas, Africa, Asia.

Non-civilized examples are the people of Europe.

what make aboriginal people civilized? usually it was stated the opposite of what you just said.

Born Ruler I
11-04-2005, 09:33 AM
what make aboriginal people civilized? usually it was stated the opposite of what you just said.
Stated by whom? Therein lies the answer to your query.

One

Ayatollah Prolific
11-04-2005, 09:52 AM
This is how I think most people see it:

Civilized is you

Uncivilized is anyone who does things differently.

But I think civilized, is when people live within a system which benefits the general well-being of all. Uncivilized, is a system which is enstored to nurture those who are stongest rather then helping out all.

Personally, if you want to give examples of uncivilized... I'll do it (I don't care to be politically correct):

Capitalism is uncivilized... Socialism is civilized (by core values)
(Laissez Faire is an economic survival of the fittest, whereas socialism is survival for all)

Protestanism is uncivil.... Roman catholics are civil (by core values)
(Portestan is more individual oriented, whereas Roman catholic is community based)

Shaolin Monks, civilized. Eskimoes, civlized.


Islam, 5 percent, christainity and Judaism, etc. can be civilized and also uncivilized, it depends on their tolerance of outsiders. Or whether they teachings allow for the well being of people in general, not just their kind)

Buddhism, Hinduism most likely civilized because of their acceptance and inclusiveness of other beliefs. It ensures the general well being of all.

Hutus and Tutsis - Uncivilized obviously, because their society and/or social structure was not strong enough to endure the race bating of Belguim.

Prolifical ENG
11-04-2005, 12:41 PM
Stated by whom? Therein lies the answer to your query.

One

I know the answer to my query, I was asking the room why it is like that.

Wamukota X
11-04-2005, 01:10 PM
what make aboriginal people civilized? usually it was stated the opposite of what you just said.


A thorough study of the history of the European reveals the true nature of their being. You really don't have to go that far back in their history but you can to see far greater evidence of their nature. First you can look at how many Native American tribes they murdered, there were hundreds of Native American tribes now many are totally extinct. The European is the only peoples I know of that caused the extinction of specific tribes of Aboriginal peoples on the planet Earth, and almost their entire race. They have done it to animals numerous times.

Prolifical ENG
11-04-2005, 04:14 PM
A thorough study of the history of the European reveals the true nature of their being. You really don't have to go that far back in their history but you can to see far greater evidence of their nature. First you can look at how many Native American tribes they murdered, there were hundreds of Native American tribes now many are totally extinct. The European is the only peoples I know of that caused the extinction of specific tribes of Aboriginal peoples on the planet Earth, and almost their entire race. They have done it to animals numerous times.

so you are implying that because aboriginal people are more in harmony with "nature", they are more civilised?

Wamukota X
11-04-2005, 04:40 PM
so you are implying that because aboriginal people are more in harmony with "nature", they are more civilised?
No. Aboriginals do not have the lust for blood like the European.

Prince Rai
11-05-2005, 06:05 AM
No. Aboriginals do not have the lust for blood like the European.#

doesnt explain the word civilisation

knewcheeze
11-05-2005, 12:25 PM
PEACE
theres different levels of civilized....
personally i think first and most importantly is treating people civil on a personal level.....

living_undead
11-05-2005, 01:49 PM
http://pics.drugstore.com/prodimg/11819/200.jpg
anything less would be uncivilised.

Ronin
11-05-2005, 02:09 PM
its all opinion

whose to say europeans were civilised when they raped various land mass from 'un civilised' natives

imo its more savage to rape continants and infect people with smallpox than blow a peace pipe and live off the land

but what do i know?

Prince Rai
11-05-2005, 05:29 PM
nah ur right ronin..

everybody has standards by which we personally govern ourselves!
and those standards are shared by most in ur realm feel me?

so when u see whats against ur standards u make rational deductions as to whether what u see is still ok enough!

then u either just stay patient n respective or u speak out!

but then again what do i know :P

Ronin
11-06-2005, 07:08 AM
the media and social background pretty much govern our perception of normality and what civil is

Prince Rai
11-06-2005, 09:58 AM
the media and social background pretty much govern our perception of normality and what civil is
yes thats true

the media does it really strongly.. but social background is the core of our understaning of the word civil..

if family value is social background... then thats the root of our comprehension of the word.

Wamukota X
11-07-2005, 12:57 PM
#

doesnt explain the word civilisation

Civilization - a society in an advanced state of social development.

FIDM 85
11-07-2005, 03:52 PM
Please Go Visit The "applies 2any W/a Brain" Thread. Thanks!

Prolifical ENG
11-07-2005, 11:19 PM
aight....yeah these threads are good once in a while.

but of course "civilized" is a concept...something that cannot be clearly defined no matter what any dictionary tells you.

Other concepts are like "what is hip hop" "what is love"...etc. But cilvilized is an interesting one that doesnt get talked about much in this manner.

Most of you are right about how its just a mode to catigorize people etc.