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View Full Version : Establishing What Is/Isnt Hip-Hop


Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 06:13 PM
peace.

thought i make this thread for numerous of reasons. one of the reasons i started this thread is because people seem to say well this is hip-hop and this isnt hip-hop

so my question would be what is hip-hop?

if you deem it as a form of expression in meter and rhyme

Prime8
12-03-2011, 06:18 PM
Nas = Hip-Hop
Wu-Tang = Hip-Hop
Kool G Rap = Hip-Hop
Lil Wayne = Hip-Hop
OJ Da Juiceman = Hip-Hop
Waka Flocka Flame = Hip-Hop


The only difference between the 1st three and the last three is, that the 1st three are good and the last three are not.

Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 06:20 PM
matter of opinion

theheavens
12-03-2011, 06:51 PM
this is hip hop

http://distilleryimage8.instagram.com/44dc5aa61dba11e1a87612313804ec91_7.jpg

Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 06:53 PM
if hip-hop is jay electronica then what are:

canibus
lcob
vinnie paz
journalist
e-40

Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 06:55 PM
i think would has to be understood on this forum

is 2 things

what is hip-hop
what is opinion

diggy
12-03-2011, 07:03 PM
This is the problem with hiphop in the sense that it mostly goes undefined and when it is defined, there are contradicting definitions.

Also, If certain individuals/groups are not hiphop, then other hiphoppers should not cosign them (as hiphoppers) and maybe should not even work with them.

Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 07:07 PM
This is the problem with hiphop in the sense that it mostly goes undefined and when it is defined, there are contradicting definitions.

Also, If certain individuals/groups are not hiphop, then other hiphoppers should not cosign them (as hiphoppers) and maybe should not even work with them.

truth

i think this is a term that hip-hop fans use to support there fav rappers "i like Nas, but Odd Future those dude not hip-hop"

like sosa said in another thread and i agree to paraphase hip-hop and what you can created is endless

Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 07:10 PM
btw fmj you post made me think about that common album where he use i think it was heavy metal beats....now where he use heavy metal beats or go the gangstarr route and rhyme over a beat thats jazz like...it would still be hip-hop

OntheHorizon
12-03-2011, 07:12 PM
Just cause you dont like summin, doesnt make it any less hip hop

This is the problem I got with Elitest Nerds who think they decide the rules for everyone, there's tons of music I cant stand in this genre but I'm not gonna move their albums to a diffrent part of the record store because of it

Good Example tho is them ICP dudes, I think most people would agree there wack beyond belief but it bothers me that there records are always in the rock section, there 2 guys rhyming words over produced beats, its not rock music, theres no band playing its a producer and 2 rappers who suck making garbage RAP MUSIC, but there shit gets classified diffrently, meanwhile Soulja Boy, who sucks just as much, is in the hip hop section sitting between Public Enemy & 2pac records

Too many people wanna define hip hop based on their preference alone and thats corny to me, hip hop is all encompassing, you gotta take the bad with the good

Fatal Guillotine
12-03-2011, 07:16 PM
Just cause you dont like summin, doesnt make it any less hip hop

This is the problem I got with Elitest Nerds who think they decide the rules for everyone, there's tons of music I cant stand in this genre but I'm not gonna move their albums to a diffrent part of the record store because of it

Good Example tho is them ICP dudes, I think most people would agree there wack beyond belief but it bothers me that there records are always in the rock section, there 2 guys rhyming words over produced beats, its not rock music, theres no band playing its a producer and 2 rappers who suck making garbage RAP MUSIC, but there shit gets classified diffrently, meanwhile Soulja Boy, who sucks just as much, is in the hip hop section sitting between Public Enemy & 2pac records

Too many people wanna define hip hop based on their preference alone and thats corny to me, hip hop is all encompassing, you gotta take the bad with the good

well said fam.

you mention ICP another group that use to get categorized the same way somewhat is Atmosphere

OntheHorizon
12-03-2011, 07:30 PM
well said fam.

you mention ICP another group that use to get categorized the same way somewhat is Atmosphere

Society at large twists the definition of our genre to suit there own needs, its sickening

Case and point

Whenever Kid Rock wins an award for a song like "Picture" or does something positive for the city of Detroit, he's referred to as a "Rock Star", but when he sends a strip club bouncer to the hospital or says something homophobic the media will say he's a "Hip Hop Artist"

Its not just us, the whole world makes up the definition of hip hop as they go along to fit there personal agenda

ShaDynasty
12-03-2011, 07:39 PM
well obviously all the artists mentioned so far are hip hop. but hip hop is kind of expansive in that, if you wanted to you could view run DMC as a rock group and it would have a ring of truth to it, even though they probably the most hip hop group of all time.

dj shadow is basically hip hop and his technique obviously is but hes also an indie darling because his records are reminiscent of 70s rock oddyseys.

unfortunately someone like soulja boy is hip hop because hes a cultural figure. people identify him as hip hop, regardless of whether you'd like to consider him that. i mean what else is he? if hes not hip hop? garbage? pop? i guess, but even as a pop artist he obviously leans towards hip hop, albeit the worst stereotypes and flashy ignorance in hip hop but still.

some people want hip hop to stay the same, and although i feel that way sometimes, i basically have to know that people are trying to express themselves through music. and music is all about taking the next step. so cold crush go run dmc go gangstarr go wu tang go nas go bun b go wayne. i mean i'm not claiming thats an entirely accurate musical lineage but i hope you get my point. music is and has always been bastardized. people take their favorite music and make their version of it. rappers don't come out and go i'm gonna make some cold crush influenced music because that would be asinine and false unless that really is their favorite shit. but its unlikely. so the next generations rappers may not have heard g rap, but they have heard someone that g rap influenced. basically soon its going to be difficult to connect a new rapper to someone like rakim.

to use a rock example, what connects chuck berry or elvis presley to radiohead? they might as well be living on different fucking planets. and then again its all basically the same shit.

diggy
12-03-2011, 07:57 PM
btw fmj you post made me think about that common album where he use i think it was heavy metal beats....now where he use heavy metal beats or go the gangstarr route and rhyme over a beat thats jazz like...it would still be hip-hop


I guess it's all speculative, cuz when it comes to the type of samples one wants to use in hiphop, there is no rule I know of that only certain types of music could be sampled or used. There is a lot of wiggle room and there is nothing (that I know of) to make it more hiphop or less hiphop because of it.

Fatal Guillotine
12-04-2011, 01:15 PM
needs to be understood

Fatal Guillotine
12-04-2011, 01:37 PM
well obviously all the artists mentioned so far are hip hop. but hip hop is kind of expansive in that, if you wanted to you could view run DMC as a rock group and it would have a ring of truth to it, even though they probably the most hip hop group of all time.

dj shadow is basically hip hop and his technique obviously is but hes also an indie darling because his records are reminiscent of 70s rock oddyseys.

unfortunately someone like soulja boy is hip hop because hes a cultural figure. people identify him as hip hop, regardless of whether you'd like to consider him that. i mean what else is he? if hes not hip hop? garbage? pop? i guess, but even as a pop artist he obviously leans towards hip hop, albeit the worst stereotypes and flashy ignorance in hip hop but still.

some people want hip hop to stay the same, and although i feel that way sometimes, i basically have to know that people are trying to express themselves through music. and music is all about taking the next step. so cold crush go run dmc go gangstarr go wu tang go nas go bun b go wayne. i mean i'm not claiming thats an entirely accurate musical lineage but i hope you get my point. music is and has always been bastardized. people take their favorite music and make their version of it. rappers don't come out and go i'm gonna make some cold crush influenced music because that would be asinine and false unless that really is their favorite shit. but its unlikely. so the next generations rappers may not have heard g rap, but they have heard someone that g rap influenced. basically soon its going to be difficult to connect a new rapper to someone like rakim.

to use a rock example, what connects chuck berry or elvis presley to radiohead? they might as well be living on different fucking planets. and then again its all basically the same shit.

my thoughts echo this. funny you mention the soulja boy shit i was thinking about the dude Pitbull now when homie first came out he was strickly rap but now his songs even though imo there garbage get play on pop station..dj done say he's pitbull the pop artist the say he the rapper. even Suga free who basically talks all over the track...you cant say his shit isnt hip-hop you go to the west coast places like pomona you hear his shit









also makes you think of tech N9ne

Mr. R&B
12-04-2011, 06:20 PM
Society at large twists the definition of our genre to suit there own needs, its sickening

Case and point

Whenever Kid Rock wins an award for a song like "Picture" or does something positive for the city of Detroit, he's referred to as a "Rock Star", but when he sends a strip club bouncer to the hospital or says something homophobic the media will say he's a "Hip Hop Artist"

Its not just us, the whole world makes up the definition of hip hop as they go along to fit there personal agenda


That's true, it's also really fucked up.

That's what society and the media does in general, they put labels on everyone and everything an try to fit it into a box.

It's bigotted behavior, but it's accepted because a lot of people hypocritical bigots and they don't realize it.

That's why I hate humanity.:fucku:



EDIT: Before anyone makes an assumption that I percieve myself to be better than everybody, I don't.

I'm swimming through the same river of shit as everyone else.

What I can't stand is people without knowledge of self, and I'm not trying to get on some NGE shit, but a lot of people aren't aware of how their ways & actions effect others.

THE MASON
12-05-2011, 12:17 PM
soul + jazz + rock + funk + http://levysuniqueny.com/wp-content/gallery/the-bronx/img_7062.jpg


= Hip Hop

Fatal Guillotine
12-05-2011, 01:57 PM
Question:What would such artist as Ceelo Green or Zach De La Rocha? (both rhyme)


Is ATMA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZUv6W6xwtI) or Lost Children of Babylon (LCOB) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtxfQjO1TOo) "less hip-hop" than Mobb Deep (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvCp-N-9JEw) or Busta Rhymes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1B8hiCNFHI) Or AZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvC8Ti5grIM) ?

like i said in another thread it cant be all kalki and it cant be all Wayne and Drake but some say im overextending my view, thoughts?

Synthesizer Patel
12-05-2011, 02:35 PM
yes this here is hip hop word,

http://www.4shared.com/audio/YHp02Pkv/sunderkand_full_-_anup_jalota.html

by all of your definitions of hip hop and how broad it really can be, a song dedicated to a certain god, with a certain beat, and a certain rhythm qualifies as hip hop??

if you say yes, you are overextending. if you say no, your definition of hip hop needs to be corrected.

either way, fatal guillotine you are wrong. atma and friends may fit your extremely vague definition of hip hop, but it sure as hell isn't as hip hop as mobb deep and busta rhymes. starting off a track going "real hip hop" then doing a full 180 and going metaphysical isn't exactly "real hip hop"

Synthesizer Patel
12-05-2011, 02:37 PM
just peep them multis and rhyme schemes!!!!!!!!!

WOW HIP HOP :D

BrokenWrists
12-06-2011, 03:00 AM
I think to find an understanding you would first have to find the person or people who first coined the term Hip-Hop. Also, speak to those who were integral in its origins as a culture and music form. A lot of research would have to be done....

To add on, i would have to say it was an expression of a people, that came to be out of the life and times they were experiencing. It evolved from a way to party, stay out of trouble, make music, invent and then the corporate side happened.....

main_man
12-06-2011, 04:38 AM
blah. blah. blah.

its pretty simple, really.

if its made by black folks, its hip hop.

if its made by white people, its not.

if its made by latinos, its salsa.

if its made by asians, it probably has a gong or some shit in it.

and if its made by middle easterners, it will suck badly and sound like someone getting phlegm from out of the deepest part of their lungs.

i hope i helped you out and changed your life for the better.

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTt3nVWbbeiNc9nAqjidY9qY_JZXpcpJ rTeWZZwZiLyy_b6Y70g

MaskedAvenger
12-06-2011, 04:54 AM
I AM HIP HOP
http://hiphophoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/grandma.jpg

Edgar Erebus
12-06-2011, 09:41 AM
Getting an answer to the original question is pretty easy.

Just listen to any song by KRS.

Fatal Guillotine
12-06-2011, 09:02 PM
yes this here is hip hop word,

http://www.4shared.com/audio/YHp02Pkv/sunderkand_full_-_anup_jalota.html

by all of your definitions of hip hop and how broad it really can be, a song dedicated to a certain god, with a certain beat, and a certain rhythm qualifies as hip hop??

if you say yes, you are overextending. if you say no, your definition of hip hop needs to be corrected.

either way, fatal guillotine you are wrong. atma and friends may fit your extremely vague definition of hip hop, but it sure as hell isn't as hip hop as mobb deep and busta rhymes. starting off a track going "real hip hop" then doing a full 180 and going metaphysical isn't exactly "real hip hop"


what you saying is really opinionated.

the only real reason you chose to say this because like all of us you have a preference

is canibus less hip-hop than someone like dr dre...hell no
is black thought less hip-hop than meek mill.... no

the genre is the same however the style differentates it self from artist to artist

Fatal Guillotine
12-06-2011, 09:03 PM
I think to find an understanding you would first have to find the person or people who first coined the term Hip-Hop. Also, speak to those who were integral in its origins as a culture and music form. A lot of research would have to be done....

To add on, i would have to say it was an expression of a people, that came to be out of the life and times they were experiencing. It evolved from a way to party, stay out of trouble, make music, invent and then the corporate side happened.....

word and that expressing can be anything

Fatal Guillotine
12-06-2011, 09:36 PM
I AM HIP HOP
http://hiphophoney.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/grandma.jpg

lol

Synthesizer Patel
12-06-2011, 10:03 PM
what you saying is really opinionated.

the only real reason you chose to say this because like all of us you have a preference

is canibus less hip-hop than someone like dr dre...hell no
is black thought less hip-hop than meek mill.... no

the genre is the same however the style differentates it self from artist to artist

yes, but you ignored my point. you are overextending. face it.

atma and friends may pass as "hip hop", but it is still bitchmade music for the undereducated an unenlightened

ShaDynasty
12-06-2011, 10:15 PM
atma make more intelligent music than a lot of rappers, so how is it comparatively more undereduacted and unenlightened?

i mean its shit, but i don't know what you're trying to say.

Uncle Steezo
12-06-2011, 10:35 PM
this is like asking "what is art?"

but i define hip hop as a product of hip hop culture. if tomorrow if cats picked up slide guitars and made country twang soundin shit, then THAT would be hip hop cause hip hop reflects the cuture.

anyopne who tries to constrain hip hop to a certain sound, theme or idea doesn't understand hip hop culture because hip hop is the most dynamic culture on the planet.

Synthesizer Patel
12-06-2011, 10:42 PM
atma make more intelligent music than a lot of rappers, so how is it comparatively more undereduacted and unenlightened?

i mean its shit, but i don't know what you're trying to say.

pseudoscience doesn't make a person intelligent.

it makes them as bad as the people out there rapping about the illuminati and actually believing in it


and thats damn stupid of them

Synthesizer Patel
12-06-2011, 10:44 PM
this is like asking "what is art?"

but i define hip hop as a product of hip hop culture. if tomorrow if cats picked up slide guitars and made country twang soundin shit, then THAT would be hip hop cause hip hop reflects the cuture.

anyopne who tries to constrain hip hop to a certain sound, theme or idea doesn't understand hip hop culture because hip hop is the most dynamic culture on the planet.

says whom?

i agree hip hop is based in diversity, but come on guys you are taking KRS wayyy too seriously here when he preaches hiphops

Uncle Steezo
12-06-2011, 11:33 PM
you might not see it as much being from canada and all but where i live and have lived the styles, slang and flavors change monthly even weekly.
what other culture moves that fast and is that diverse over such a small area of land like the USA?

china has been using the same 10,000 words for thoudands of years up until the 1990s when computers and HIP HOP hit the scene. here, you cant even use hip hop slang from 2005 without sounding dated.

$inista
12-07-2011, 12:26 AM
this is like asking "what is art?"

but i define hip hop as a product of hip hop culture. if tomorrow if cats picked up slide guitars and made country twang soundin shit, then THAT would be hip hop cause hip hop reflects the cuture.

anyopne who tries to constrain hip hop to a certain sound, theme or idea doesn't understand hip hop culture because hip hop is the most dynamic culture on the planet.


i agree hip hop is a culture so you have to take into consideration language/ slang music/poetry,rapping,turntablelism,production art/graffiti & more and dance/ breaking,pop locking & more

hip hop is a universal language it don't matter where you from, the bitch gotten so big there are gonna be elements of the bitch you don't like just because you don't like it, that doesn't mean its not hip hop, i don"t like half the rappers out but they still contributing to hip hop weather i like it or not weather in a good way or bad way

Fatal Guillotine
12-07-2011, 02:00 PM
pseudoscience doesn't make a person intelligent.

it makes them as bad as the people out there rapping about the illuminati and actually believing in it


and thats damn stupid of them

again this is OPINION and not fact. whether you choose to detest atma and hold this stigma towards those that choose to express themselves on a different plane than what you are use to doesnt make it any less hip-hop....i think style somewhat echo what ive been saying...show me a manual that pertains to hip-hop that says that an artist shouldnt speak on certain topics and i'll show you the first amendent

tekunique
12-07-2011, 07:31 PM
difference is easy to distinguish if you separate HIP HOP to shits that are what i call HIP POP.

Uncle Steezo
12-08-2011, 04:30 AM
difference is easy to distinguish if you separate HIP HOP to shits that are what i call HIP POP.

is this hip hop or hip pop?

1. NEUX-HYRtUA

2. StaZJ6zOHO0

3. kY84MRnxVzo

4. mJgFU3U4X_Y

5. 4B_UYYPb-Gk

all pop music but you'd be lying if you said it wasn't hip hop. in fact these are classic hip hop songs

Cthulhu
12-08-2011, 05:13 AM
someone mentioned DJ Shadow, which makes me ask, what about "trip-hop"?

It was basically a genre name invented by music critics (coined, actually, in reference to DJ Shadow's "In/Flux" single) and not really accepted by any of the artists that got labeled as it, but assuming that the 3 major Bristol groups, Massive Attack, Portishead, and Tricky can be called the same genre, where do they fall?

Massive Attack is probably the easiest to dismiss because they have the most electronica influence, but their early sound-system influenced shit is a mix of hip-hop, dub, soul, and dance music, and there are tracks that are obviously hip-hop that feature only rapping over a beat. Even their later stuff from Mezzanine on still has a hip-hop influence, but I probably wouldn't consider it actual hip-hop.

Portishead is an interesting case. The music on their first two albums is produced as more-or-less hip-hop beats, but some of it is samples and some of it is originally-recorded music by the actual band members and collaborating musicians. There is no rapping, though, so does it fall into similar territory as "hip-hop soul" like Erykah Badu? A lot of critics think of them as sort of a rock band, but until their third album they had very little rock influence. Yeah they had verse/chorus songs, but it was in the style of vocal jazz like Billie Holiday, just without a real jazz band. No one seems willing to call them a type of jazz though, even though they have used live (as in not sampled) trumpet and guitar solos, and the Adrian Utley's guitar and keyboard style is more or less descended from jazz and jazz-influenced soundtrack music. If they had rapping instead of singing they probably would be considered a particularly moody type of jazz rap.

Tricky I think is the most interesting because his early stuff has the most obvious hip-hop influence. Although he basically abandoned actual rapping after leaving Massive Attack, his spoken word vocals kind of evolved out of his laid-back style of rapping on early Massive stuff. Like Portishead, he mostly uses singing vocalists over hip-hop beats. They are pretty weird off-kilter beats, but most of them have a more obvious 90s style hip-hop production to them. Some his covers of hip-hop songs tend to sound nothing like hip-hop, but others are more or less still some weird kind of hip-hop.

What genre would you call these?
TDHl5djnYM4
Z_H2x9z94Qk
vlfCeyhl9pQ
GDiakScZVPo

All these groups started out in the sound system/DJ/turntablism mind-set but went in directions different from the usual MC-over-a-beat paradigm. Are they an extension of hip-hop or a totally different genre?

Fatal Guillotine
03-06-2012, 08:23 AM
like to heard what others have to say

Taskmaster2112
03-06-2012, 10:50 AM
I read an article on Afrika Bambaataa a while back, and some dude who worked with him was talking about the kind of records he played. Bambaataa could play a funk record, then some Kraftwerk, then a Mickey Mouse record, then some Hall & Oates or some shit, and still keep the crowd going. The guy who was describing it said that it wasn't what records Bambaataa played but how he played them that made them Hip Hop.

Mickey Mouse and Hall & Oates on their own are not Hip Hop, but Hip Hop can incorporate nearly anything and therefore be nearly anything.

All of you who are arguing about what subject matter is more "real Hip Hop" than others are missing the point completely. Same with those of you who are arguing about the differences between Hip Hop and Hip Pop or Hip Hop and Trip Hop. The lines between these groupings are so vague and permeable that it's not even worth it to have those lines at all. All you're doing is limiting Hip Hop artists in their artistic expression and limiting the art form as a whole.

D.projectile
03-06-2012, 02:12 PM
switchin it up n bein innovative n fresh (n getting busy!)