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BornPower
03-02-2012, 04:48 AM
I had in depth discussion a man that saw me (re)reading the Art of War. He asked if I was planning some sort of offensive action and when I replied, "no" he inquired as to why I was studying a book that laid out the framework of successful conquest. In his (not so) humble opinion, I had no business reading something like that if I didn't plan on using it in some way.

This is the discussion that I put on the table:

What is the value of knowing how to manipulate and conquer one's opponent using the tools one has available? Is a man of peace justified in his study of war and at what point does one draw the line?

LORD NOSE
03-02-2012, 05:15 AM
righteous behaviors image has been tainted and confused with softness and fluffyness

diggy
03-02-2012, 03:43 PM
It is justified. I did. There is value in reading it. For example, after reading it, one could look at the news and the talk of war through the eyes of a strategist and see thru the lies. Also, some of the lessons in it, are applicable in other areas of human relations, especially when dealing with people who are not too pleasant (foes, negotiations, business strategy, sports strategy, etc.)

BornPower
03-02-2012, 03:48 PM
righteous behaviors image has been tainted and confused with softness and fluffyness

That's funny because righteous men through history are anything BUT soft and fluffy.

Sun Tzu
Ghandi
Malcolm X
Da Mo

If these men were touted as examples instead of confused athletes and selfish entertainers things would be a LOT different.

BornPower
03-02-2012, 03:52 PM
It is justified. I did. There is value in reading it. For example, after reading it, one could look at the news and the talk of war through the eyes of a strategist and see thru the lies. Also, some of the lessons in it, are applicable in other areas of human relations, especially when dealing with people who are not too pleasant (foes, negotiations, business strategy, sports strategy, etc.)

So true! Complete 120 comes from knowing one's self and through this one can know his adversary as well. Being able to recognize a foe's strategy is but a small part in being victorious is any arena, be it sports, video games, business or interpersonal relationships.

Such simple tools can be used to build monumental things but while the tools themselves may be simple, the principals behind them seem to be lost to the masses.

THE MASON
03-02-2012, 04:02 PM
this book is my holy book.

that is all i can say. if you cant apply the lessons of this book to everyday life then you are very narrow minded when applying the concepts.

it encompasses a lot more then how to win a battle/war. it gives ways to stay successful after the fact, which nations could take heed from.

diggy
03-02-2012, 04:11 PM
So true! Complete 120 comes from knowing one's self and through this one can know his adversary as well.

Nice. Have you ever read Machiavelli's 'Art of war'? It's a good read as well with multiple applicative lessons.

BornPower
03-02-2012, 08:35 PM
Nice. Have you ever read Machiavelli's 'Art of war'? It's a good read as well with multiple applicative lessons.

No, your mention of it is the first I've heard of it. I will have to check it out at my first opportunity.

BornPower
03-02-2012, 08:48 PM
this book is my holy book.

that is all i can say. if you cant apply the lessons of this book to everyday life then you are very narrow minded when applying the concepts.

it encompasses a lot more then how to win a battle/war. it gives ways to stay successful after the fact, which nations could take heed from.

Many of the Taoist texts dealt with such "contradictions" as winning without fighting, a concept mentioned in the text multiple times as an understood concept. A lot of Western translators had issues with attempting to convey this idea to their audience and to this day the West is confused by it.

Plenty that plan for victory stop short at the first letter and never think of how to govern what they have won. You are so right.

LORD NOSE
03-02-2012, 10:42 PM
...as winning without fighting..

most would link war with violence and bloodshed

having no foes is the ultimate win

bringing understanding to someone who believes you to be a foe can prevent bloodshed

BornPower
03-03-2012, 01:32 PM
most would link war with violence and bloodshed

having no foes is the ultimate win

bringing understanding to someone who believes you to be a foe can prevent bloodshed

Isn't bloodshed the ultimate form of ignorance?

LORD NOSE
03-03-2012, 02:30 PM
Isn't bloodshed the ultimate form of ignorance?


not if you're defending you and yours from it

if you MUST shed blood to protect you and yours, so be it

moving a situation away from that happening is the ultimate win

BornPower
03-04-2012, 12:50 PM
not if you're defending you and yours from it

if you MUST shed blood to protect you and yours, so be it

moving a situation away from that happening is the ultimate win

I agree with you on this. Manipulating the situation to acquire what is needed IS the ultimate win. This raises another question: Is the manipulation of the truth justified when dealing with the ignorant when they refuse the truth?

LORD NOSE
03-04-2012, 01:29 PM
I agree with you on this. Manipulating the situation to acquire what is needed IS the ultimate win. This raises another question: Is the manipulation of the truth justified when dealing with the ignorant when they refuse the truth?



In the Gospel of Hip Hop it says to treat a person how they want to be treated

infants cannot take a steak knife to a steak and feed themselves - their food must be broken down

if you alter or repaint truth with the intention of bringing it where it is needed and it works, no justification needed

V4D3R
03-04-2012, 11:49 PM
Aite I agree with all this. I misunderstood you .5Kut in the last thread i replied. I need to read this myself.