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"Masta-Mind"
11-02-2005, 05:32 AM
Since the other thread was just a yes or no poll, please explain here why/how those of u who voted yes think u are devine?

In my oppinion and as a matter of fact a human cannot be devine. Call me stupid but i cannot understand how a man/women could think their are devine unless in their mind devine means normal

Absolutly NOT

How can a human who has to wipe the crap off his ass call himself devine?

Either people take the word devine to little or we are thinking waaaaaaaaaaay to highly of ourselves.

Only 1 deity
ALLAH
ALLAH IS AZIZUL RAHEEM (ALMIGHTY MOST MERCIFUL)

Peace

Peace

"Masta-Mind"
11-02-2005, 07:12 AM
Yo can i just make a genuine request right now that people dont bring that stupid general chat mentality to this thread, or the rest of ktl 4 dat matter please

"Masta-Mind"
11-02-2005, 07:21 AM
lol, here we go again? U sure ur 21 son? yeah kool, i'll go join the taliban and u take the 1 away from ur age coz u actin like a toddller kid

"Masta-Mind"
11-02-2005, 07:28 AM
Okay, peace be upon u

LHX
11-02-2005, 09:37 AM
Since the other thread was just a yes or no poll, please explain here why/how those of u who voted yes think u are devine?

In my oppinion and as a matter of fact a human cannot be devine. Call me stupid but i cannot understand how a man/women could think their are devine unless in their mind devine means normal



Peace
when you become one with the creator

if the creator is divine
then
it means you are divine

this is only a matter of understanding

Sweet6
11-02-2005, 09:46 AM
If you think you're devine, you're not. Simple as that.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 10:12 AM
Yes, I am, tell me why I am not?
Define divine.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 10:25 AM
No, but I have met Mumra.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 10:31 AM
The ever living.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 10:36 AM
Yes I will.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 10:39 AM
I don't think this will be acceptable, I will be sure to let him know of your wanting to puff though.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 10:52 AM
He much prefers a bag of dirt. He does not like to participate in puffing activities.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:03 AM
HACKY SACK? Are you mad? AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Would you kick your own food around?

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:09 AM
I think he is most probably wanting to eat you now.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:20 AM
Hmmm, you may be able to live yet.
I just showed him your picture in general chat, he says you are a fine & dandy fella.
But he is still mad that you threatened to play kick ups with his breakfast.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:25 AM
He says thankyou for offering yourself as a sacrifice.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:30 AM
Who is this, & why have her hands turned into a shredded rug?

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:37 AM
I am worried my mortal friend.
I will send you a BigMac, i only hope it does not harm you, or your rug handed friend in any way.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:45 AM
Will you be in to sign for it, I will send by Fedex..
I need your full address please.

M.I.C Diesel
11-02-2005, 11:56 AM
I hope peovidence is on your side my pupil. Take care, & eat carefully.

----------------------------------- Signing off -------------------------------------

Ayatollah Prolific
11-02-2005, 12:17 PM
If you think you're devine, you're not. Simple as that.
That's deceptively simple, but very profound.

There is a Sura about the beginning of man from the Quran which basically goes like this:

Allah created Adam and asked all Angels to prostate (bow down) to his new creation in Adam. All angels did so, except for Lucifer (Devil). He told god, "I who was made of fire will not bow down to someone who is made of Dirt." Then the story continues similiar to the Judeo-Christin Exodus story of how the devil tricked Adam and Eve. God created the Earth and so on.

Simply stated: God exiled the devil because of the devils belief in his own personal devinity. In a sense, the devils egotism ruined him and was not favored by God. In a way, by God making us from dirt it seems to symbolize our humble beginning and simple nature. But god made the dirt something by his power in to a human. Therefore, to answer the thread question.

We are devine only because a devine being created us. But rather then worshipping our selves for this divinity, we should worship the deity that infused us with this divinity.

Of course... this explanation will only hold weight if one is monotheistic.

LHX
11-02-2005, 02:21 PM
That's deceptively simple, but very profound.

There is a Sura about the beginning of man from the Quran which basically goes like this:

Allah created Adam and asked all Angels to prostate (bow down) to his new creation in Adam. All angels did so, except for Lucifer (Devil). He told god, "I who was made of fire will not bow down to someone who is made of Dirt." Then the story continues similiar to the Judeo-Christin Exodus story of how the devil tricked Adam and Eve. God created the Earth and so on.

Simply stated: God exiled the devil because of the devils belief in his own personal devinity. In a sense, the devils egotism ruined him and was not favored by God. In a way, by God making us from dirt it seems to symbolize our humble beginning and simple nature. But god made the dirt something by his power in to a human. Therefore, to answer the thread question.

We are devine only because a devine being created us. But rather then worshipping our selves for this divinity, we should worship the deity that infused us with this divinity.

Of course... this explanation will only hold weight if one is monotheistic.
why is it that every biblical text has to come across like its a comic book?

god
devil
bowing down
exile
made of fire

it really does not have to be all that dramatic

the devil does his work the same way a mechanic punches in on the clock and punches out when hes done

it is routine

and it is also divine

Aqueous Moon
11-02-2005, 02:24 PM
why is it that every biblical text has to come across like its a comic book?

god
devil
bowing down
exile
made of fire

it really does not have to be all that dramatic

the devil does his work the same way a mechanic punches in on the clock and punches out when hes done

it is routine

and it is also divine
Peace LHX,

Why do you say that the devils work is divine?

I think I know what you mean...just wanted to hear your thoughts about it.

Peace

LHX
11-02-2005, 02:29 PM
the devil is gods refining tool

he is the water that washes against the stone until it is polished enough to fit through the passage

without the devil - all creation is absolutely meaningless


(everything may be meaningless in general
but
the devil allows meaning from certain perspectives)

also
there is the fact that everything is divine
as it is intrinsically a part of the most highs creation

Aqueous Moon
11-02-2005, 02:34 PM
Peace LHX,

I am not sure if i really just don't know what you mean...or if I just don't see it the same way.

Don't matter really, I appreciate your views and I respect that.

Peace

LHX
11-02-2005, 02:47 PM
peace

is there anything i can elaborate on?

blackwisdom
11-02-2005, 02:48 PM
I stopped reading the posts because I saw too much ignorance.

Allow Hip Hop to explain it to you. I can do a good job at it, but check out these Brothers speak the universal language of music.

http://s59.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2IX1W22INOB4Y38F9U77L2RGPM (http://s59.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2IX1W22INOB4Y38F9U77L2RGPM)
http://s59.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2OX2YQJ5ANQV32RXBAWAKL90ZZ (http://s59.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2OX2YQJ5ANQV32RXBAWAKL90ZZ)

Hotep

Aqueous Moon
11-02-2005, 02:59 PM
peace

is there anything i can elaborate on?
Peace

Nah...it's cool. I'm thinking about the "lie" thread ...pretty interesting.

blackwisdom
11-02-2005, 03:14 PM
i can't get u send it links at work, what song and group is tha?Who is God?
- Rakim

Show and Prove
- Rebel Ins

Hotep

LHX
11-02-2005, 03:18 PM
Peace

Nah...it's cool. I'm thinking about the "lie" thread ...pretty interesting.
PLEASE

drop some feedback

at least let me know if it is coherent



thats one of the things that i get most confused about

i dont know if people disagree with me when they dont respond
or
whether i am just talking nonsense

peace

Ayatollah Prolific
11-02-2005, 03:42 PM
PLEASE

drop some feedback

at least let me know if it is coherent



thats one of the things that i get most confused about

i dont know if people disagree with me when they dont respond
or
whether i am just talking nonsense

peace
I'll give it a shot. I disagree with you to some extent . But, I am not sure what you believe. I can only rely upon the foundations of the holy books (if you believe in one).

If the devil is God's partner (or employee) or servant who serves the necessary function of testing Man's ethical beliefs or in turn, testing them to see if they are worthy of Heaven, then why all of the incriminating verses in the scriptures about how evil the Devil is? One can argue that God made it that way so that simple human beings can easily delineate between right and wrong. But wouldn't that be intentionally misinforming? If so, would that not be a little mischevious for a hypothetical high and all mighty god?

There is a school of thought that says, God is in control and he is using the Devil as a neccesary function of a Human's life (yin-yang or kharma). But I still wouldn't understand the whole hell fire, evil angel language in the bible.

Your thoughts?

Alcryt
11-02-2005, 03:42 PM
I am divine because when I look in the mirrior I see this:



http://static.flickr.com/1/9455_86356d8201_m.jpg


word
lmfao!!!!!!!

LHX
11-02-2005, 04:01 PM
I'll give it a shot. I disagree with you to some extent . But, I am not sure what you believe. I can only rely upon the foundations of the holy books (if you believe in one).

If the devil is God's partner (or employee) or servant who serves the necessary function of testing Man's ethical beliefs or in turn, testing them to see if they are worthy of Heaven, then why all of the incriminating verses in the scriptures about how evil the Devil is? One can argue that God made it that way so that simple human beings can easily delineate between right and wrong. But wouldn't that be intentionally misinforming? If so, would that not be a little mischevious for a hypothetical high and all mighty god?

There is a school of thought that says, God is in control and he is using the Devil as a neccesary function of a Human's life (yin-yang or kharma). But I still wouldn't understand the whole hell fire, evil angel language in the bible.

Your thoughts?
peace

i was actually talking about the '5 stages of the lie' thread when i was looking for some feedback

but
you bring up some interesting points here

fundamentally
it seems that most holy books play on sensitivities that we have discovered in man
an avoidance of pain
and
an aversion to pleasure

also
holy books play on taking advantage of a fear of death

if you take a look in the 'are you afraid of dying' thread
somebody mentioned how a lot of eastern systems of thought do not look at death with the same fear and panic that gets played in a lot of other belief systems

even tho there is an 'evil' element in taoism
it does not have horns and a pitchfork and a bad attitude
rather - it is simply something which is there to make you better


it is much the same in how we approach everything over here
when two people play chess - does you opponent suddenly become evil?
of course not
but this is something that has been put into us as a way of scaring us into learning and following rules

instead - a game of chess can be looked at as the game itself being the enemy
and the two players simply engage in a process of discovering how best to navigate the system

needless to say - the competitive 'fire' that is bred in option #1 produces much more competitive chess players in a shorter time
but
it prolly isnt too good for their nerves



the learning process is painful
but
'evil' is only as 'bad' as you are going to allow it to be

"Masta-Mind"
11-02-2005, 04:01 PM
THIS THREAD IS A FLIPPING JOKE.

I regret making this shit, lol yo princerai how comes u told me 2 come back 2 ktl bro? nothing but confused kids here, u'd swear this was gen chat.


Somebody answer/ask a question or please can a mod shut this crap down. Peace 2 those who posted or tried 2 post some normal stuff

LHX
11-02-2005, 04:06 PM
THIS THREAD IS A FLIPPING JOKE.

I regret making this shit, lol yo princerai how comes u told me 2 come back 2 ktl bro? nothing but confused kids here, u'd swear this was gen chat.


Somebody answer/ask a question or please can a mod shut this crap down. Peace 2 those who posted or tried 2 post some normal stuff
fuck

and this is one of the threads that took a turn for the better

Ayatollah Prolific
11-02-2005, 04:24 PM
"'evil' is only as 'bad' as you are going to allow it to be"

I don't know if I can agree with this train of thought. "evil" is something that can not be explained in a rational way, however, one can feel it, just as they can with love. I feel evil, although I am not what one would call a tradionally religious person.

It is evident from your response that you do not believe in the scriptures. But if this is the case, I have to approach this subject on a more scientific and philisophical level. If you do not believe in evil, then what would be the purpose of ethics? Self-preservation? If it's self-preservation, then why do we mourn our loved ones? It is not because we merely hope it doesn't happen to us. In that case we would be shocked and scared rather then shed tears.

Incidentally, your lie thread has a similiar vibe to this thread.

Lie = An evolved method learned by human beings alone.

I respectfully disagree. Instead, I would say the following

Lie = deceit, a reoccurring method used by man and animals alike.

Examples of lies: Camoflauge on insects and fish. Or more specifically, an animal who masks his true form to gain an advantage. A Grizzle who stands up. Grizzles do so to mask their true size and intimidate their enemies. It isn't done so as a fighting technique. Last but not least, there are fish that will hide the fact that they are male, to slip within a females mating nest (which is heavily guarded by an alpha male). Hence, he lies to get through the guards.

LHX
11-02-2005, 04:39 PM
so you would say that all lies - at their root - are based on the need for survival and nothing more than survival?

Ayatollah Prolific
11-02-2005, 04:51 PM
yup... But I should add that is Man expects to be above animal, he should not lie.

LHX
11-02-2005, 07:54 PM
yup... But I should add that is Man expects to be above animal, he should not lie.
i am trying to see this

but
i really cant agree

Shemsu Elohim
11-02-2005, 09:58 PM
WE are Divine Beings because our Being is Divine.

To Be is better than to exist.


Allah has no form other than the forms that He takes.

The Perfect Multiple Unity.

He is in all things.

We only manifest that divinity some of the time, because it is usually filtered through the egos.

But We are still Divine because we have a spark of That Divinity which is the Buddha Nature.


A Paramarthasattya is "Allah in person"(how the Nation of Islam refers to Master Farad Muhammad).


From the Gnostic Glosary (http://www.gnosis-usa.com/index.php?option=com_glossary&func=display&letter=P&Itemid=0&catid=77&page=1)

Paramarthasattya

(Sanskrit) Para, “absolute, supreme.” Parama, “that which knows, or the consciousness.” Artha, “that which is known.” Sattya, “existence, Truth.” In synthesis, “The supreme knowledge of all that exists: TRUTH.”

1) A being of very high development; an inhabitant of the Absolute.

2) The ultimate truth, as opposed to conventional truth (samvriti-sattya) or relative truth of the manifested world.


Any Bodhisattva who creates the Soul, totally annhilates the ego, incarnates the Christ(such as Yeshua) and then reaches the Perfection of the Absolute(AIN), is said to be "Allah in person" or a Paramarthasattya.

noel411
11-02-2005, 10:33 PM
THIS THREAD IS A FLIPPING JOKE.

I regret making this shit, lol yo princerai how comes u told me 2 come back 2 ktl bro? nothing but confused kids here, u'd swear this was gen chat.


Somebody answer/ask a question or please can a mod shut this crap down. Peace 2 those who posted or tried 2 post some normal stuffLook at it this way, dude. If you're asking a bunch of people why they call themselves "divine beings" without them even realising why they do so, or what it means, you can't really expect a decent explanation. I knew from the get-go that you wouldn't get a half decent direct answer to your question. To find the answer to your question you'd probably have to find out which books, songs, websites etc, told these "divine beings" that they are "divine beings", and figure out what made them believe it.

Ayatollah Prolific
11-03-2005, 10:01 AM
i am trying to see this

but
i really cant agree
OK... but why?

Prince Rai
11-03-2005, 10:19 AM
THIS THREAD IS A FLIPPING JOKE.

I regret making this shit, lol yo princerai how comes u told me 2 come back 2 ktl bro? nothing but confused kids here, u'd swear this was gen chat.


Somebody answer/ask a question or please can a mod shut this crap down. Peace 2 those who posted or tried 2 post some normal stuff
patience brother, as soon as the enluightened come the story turns positive..


good building going on at the moment.

Prince Rai
11-03-2005, 10:22 AM
That's deceptively simple, but very profound.

There is a Sura about the beginning of man from the Quran which basically goes like this:

Allah created Adam and asked all Angels to prostate (bow down) to his new creation in Adam. All angels did so, except for Lucifer (Devil). He told god, "I who was made of fire will not bow down to someone who is made of Dirt." Then the story continues similiar to the Judeo-Christin Exodus story of how the devil tricked Adam and Eve. God created the Earth and so on.

Simply stated: God exiled the devil because of the devils belief in his own personal devinity. In a sense, the devils egotism ruined him and was not favored by God. In a way, by God making us from dirt it seems to symbolize our humble beginning and simple nature. But god made the dirt something by his power in to a human. Therefore, to answer the thread question.

We are devine only because a devine being created us. But rather then worshipping our selves for this divinity, we should worship the deity that infused us with this divinity.

Of course... this explanation will only hold weight if one is monotheistic.
that has been nicely put down!

this is true, we are part of divinity but it is the fact that God always will be above us, that only he can be ultimately divine.

but LHX also suggested before that.... we are part of divine thus we are divine... this has been simply put , but what truth i see in this is that, we are divine in the sense that if we follow Allah's rules.. we become part of him and do not lose the "way" first sura!

Prince Rai
11-03-2005, 10:24 AM
the devil is gods refining tool

he is the water that washes against the stone until it is polished enough to fit through the passage

without the devil - all creation is absolutely meaningless


(everything may be meaningless in general
but
the devil allows meaning from certain perspectives)

also
there is the fact that everything is divine
as it is intrinsically a part of the most highs creation
if we agree that we are part of the universe... then this belief is equal to that we are also divine... in the sense as i have explained in the post before..


as for your anology of the devil.

i absolutel;y understand...

its part of the notion that... with evil we have good..

the devil suits God in the sense that.. when the devil tests man... what do we do?? do we truly loyally follow Allah or the devil?

and who created the devil?

Prince Rai
11-03-2005, 10:24 AM
surely as God has created the devil and Allah is allknowing, he must know the purpose of the devil..

yin n yang

Ayatollah Prolific
11-03-2005, 11:22 AM
that has been nicely put down!

this is true, we are part of divinity but it is the fact that God always will be above us, that only he can be ultimately divine.

but LHX also suggested before that.... we are part of divine thus we are divine... this has been simply put , but what truth i see in this is that, we are divine in the sense that if we follow Allah's rules.. we become part of him and do not lose the "way" first sura!
100 percent agreement with you. "we are divine in the sense that if we follow Allah's rules." This is a very important point as well.

LHX
11-03-2005, 12:15 PM
100 percent agreement with you. "we are divine in the sense that if we follow Allah's rules." This is a very important point as well.
true

"Masta-Mind"
11-04-2005, 05:44 AM
Okay, Princerai and prolific raised a point dat i never herd before, (us being devine if u obey ALLAH (SWT))

I havent come accross any verses in the Qur'aan or and hadiths to suggest this so if any of u guys have please relate them or just tell me which verse and i'll look it up insha ALLAH.

If there is no proof in Qur'aan and sunnah them one should keep his mouth shut coz this is a big subject. I dont want to say we are devine in anyway unless i have proof, if its ur oppinion or a personal theory then read the Qur'aan to see if u are right

Visionz
11-04-2005, 05:59 AM
if man was created in God's image that would mean that humans were a reflection of God's divine spirit. In being part of that reflection, all humans are devine on some level, although that divinity can go unnurtered and unrealized, it doesn't stop it from existing. This still doesn't put any human on God's level and any divinity we are capable of showing is owed to the Divine Creator.

Visionz
11-04-2005, 06:08 AM
hadn't read any previous post when I wrote this^. But man's own divinity is relayed in the very first words of the intro to the Quran. It doesn't come outright and say it but it's def. implied that man's place on Earth is a special one.

.....To Man He gave a special place in His Creation. He honoured man to be His Agent. And to that end, endued him with understanding. Purified his affections, and gave him spiritual insight; So that man should understand Nature, understand himself, and know Allah through His wondrous Sign. And glorify Him in Truth, reverence, and unity......

Our place here is different from every other living creature, and maybe divine isn't the right word for it, but we defintely have a special place in God's purpose.

Ayatollah Prolific
11-04-2005, 08:27 AM
".....To Man He gave a special place in His Creation. He honoured man to be His Agent. And to that end, endued him with understanding. Purified his affections, and gave him spiritual insight; So that man should understand Nature, understand himself, and know Allah through His wondrous Sign. And glorify Him in Truth, reverence, and unity......"

Where did you read that? I like it... but it seems like something someone wrote.

Prince Rai
11-04-2005, 03:18 PM
if man was created in God's image that would mean that humans were a reflection of God's divine spirit. In being part of that reflection, all humans are devine on some level, although that divinity can go unnurtered and unrealized, it doesn't stop it from existing. This still doesn't put any human on God's level and any divinity we are capable of showing is owed to the Divine Creator.
i would say that to brother masta mind!


as for proof in the Quran....

the words of Eric is word...

AND also i want to say that... many things which have islamic answers have been found in accordance to islam by the virtue of the line in the quran which allows man and woman to strive for knowledge..

this suggests much that needs answering comes through thinking and analysing knowledge..

peace and blessings

Visionz
11-05-2005, 06:51 AM
Where did you read that? I like it... but it seems like something someone wrote. this is from the very first verse in the introduction to the Quran, or atleast in my version, which I can't say is in all because it's the only one I've ever looked at but I assumed they all have more or less the same intro. Can anyone verify this for me? thanks and peace

FIDM 85
11-07-2005, 04:09 PM
Please Visit The "applies 2all W/a Brain" Thread. Thanks!!!