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View Full Version : to not believe in the God of scripture is.....illogical?


THE W
11-13-2012, 09:19 PM
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http://www.proofthatgodexists.org/


dont know about this angle to christian apologetics but its interesting enough.


go to the website and do the questionnaire. interesting stuff.

beautifulrock
11-13-2012, 10:10 PM
Nah, that's how they get ya.

THE W
11-14-2012, 05:17 PM
haha, no one even took the time to check out the videos and the website?

food for thought
11-14-2012, 05:20 PM
haha, no one even took the time to give a fuck about this?

fixed.

ratty mayonnaise
11-14-2012, 06:49 PM
the god in scriptures contradicts himself..

sometimes he is loving, and tolerant, other times he is hateful and vengeful,

i dont think they be speaking of the same god.

I dont even think they are talking about gods..

sorry not watched videos., 2hours is way too long to watch a religious guy try to prove that god exists..

but i peeped the website

motherfucker . i clicked on i dont care if absolute truth exists.. and fucker re directed me to disney.co.uk

ok got to teh end

To reach this page you had to acknowledge that immaterial, universal, unchanging laws of logic, mathematics, science, and absolute morality exist. Universal, immaterial, unchanging laws are necessary for rational thinking to be possible. Universal, immaterial, unchanging laws cannot be accounted for if the universe was random or only material in nature.
The Bible teaches us that there are 2 types of people in this world, those who profess the truth of God's existence and those who suppress the truth of God's existence. The options of 'seeking' God, or not believing in God are unavailable. The Bible never attempts to prove the existence of God as it declares that the existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for not believing in Him.


faggit shit.




he needs to look into fractals, fibonacci, golden ratio, electric universe.. and our dna.. but he would say, they prove that god exists..
lol

best part was the 1st page.. comedy gold.

You have likely heard that it is impossible to prove that God exists. You have heard wrong. Not only can the existence of God be proven, denying the proof undermines rational thought. It is true that God does not need anyone, let alone this website, to prove His existence. The Bible teaches that the existence of God is so obvious that we are without excuse for denying Him. No one needs proof that God exists,


using the bible as a final source LOL
highlighted sentence is a mindfuck, accepting he exists, soley based on the bible, undermines rational thought,.

Mumm Ra
11-14-2012, 06:53 PM
this is his proof:
Note that the proof does not say that professed unbelievers do not prove things. The argument is that you must borrow from the Christian worldview, and a God who makes universal, immaterial, unchanging laws possible in order to prove anything.

This type of logical proof deals with ‘transcendentals’ or ‘necessary starting points,’ and the proof is called a ‘transcendental proof.’ Any contrary view to the God of Christianity being the necessary starting point for rationality is reduced to absurdity. You have to assume God in order to argue against Him. Only the Christian worldview can logically support rationality.
thats the dumbest shit i ever heard in my life, and that guy is probably insane. he could place any religion besides christianity as his proof and it would accomplish the same thing.
by his own logic, he would have to admit christianity is wrong because christianity borrowed from earlier religions

ratty mayonnaise
11-14-2012, 06:59 PM
this is his proof:

thats the dumbest shit i ever heard in my life, and that guy is probably insane. he could place any religion besides christianity as his proof and it would accomplish the same thing.
by his own logic, he would have to admit christianity is wrong because christianity borrowed from earlier religions


selective amnesia is a bitch

Mumm Ra
11-14-2012, 07:05 PM
i emailed the faggot too
i await a retort

diggy
11-14-2012, 09:39 PM
the god in scriptures contradicts himself..

sometimes he is loving, and tolerant, other times he is hateful and vengeful

That's not a contradiction. It is possible to love and hate at different times.

THE W
11-14-2012, 10:18 PM
like i said, not too keen on this brand of christian apologetics in choosing to do without evidentual apologetics for presuppositionalism.

if you dont want to hear a guy try and prove got exists how watching the same guy and his partner debate a couple of atheists in a formal debate.

D-J225ytivo

its long, but interesting.

THE W
11-14-2012, 10:21 PM
That's not a contradiction. It is possible to love and hate at different times.
i would have to bring into question someone's knowledge of who the God of the bible is to even think such a thing would be contradictory as it would seem to be lacking.

LORD NOSE
11-15-2012, 02:39 AM
swine casting pearls to gods, then trying to trample them because the gods won't accept them

the gods is like, why i need them pearls from a pigs ass when i got diamonds from a creators mouth ?


he would need to raise his fire upward to even be able to get the chance to peep at heaven - he fears punishment from something he believes exist - so much so, that he won't challenge his own beliefs and be his own man

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 03:33 AM
That's not a contradiction. It is possible to love and hate at different times.


yes, but the god (or gods) in the 1st testament, have varying tolerance, and to different peoples..

id expect 'god' to be the same to everyone.. unless the writer is playing a mindfuck

How many gods are there?
http://errancy.org/polytheistic.html

Problem: The Old Testament mentions multiple gods
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/gods.html


Other Gods of the Hebrew and Christian Bible
http://www.bobgod.com/other.html


but anyway.. we all know these gods, are from other religions that preceded christianity as Mumm Ra said

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 05:43 AM
OP why u post this g? just curious as to why..

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 06:20 AM
That's not a contradiction. It is possible to love and hate at different times.

love or want/have an attachment?

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 06:27 AM
i'd advise a christian to ignore the old testament really..to truely love is the embodiment of all the laws of the old testament

what makes one more of a recipient to that Love?
thats the question..

THE W
11-15-2012, 07:55 AM
yes, but the god (or gods) in the 1st testament, have varying tolerance, and to different peoples..

id expect 'god' to be the same to everyone.. unless the writer is playing a mindfuck

How many gods are there?
http://errancy.org/polytheistic.html

Problem: The Old Testament mentions multiple gods
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/gods.html


Other Gods of the Hebrew and Christian Bible
http://www.bobgod.com/other.html


but anyway.. we all know these gods, are from other religions that preceded christianity as Mumm Ra said
the multiple god issues presented in your links are simply explained by understanding that the bible is speaking of idol gods.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Chronicles%2016:25-26&version=NIV1984

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2044:6-23&version=NIV1984

the first two verses in genesis that are on the multiple gods side of one of your links is speaking of the trinity(god the father, God the son, God the holy spirit).

trinity = the father, son, holy spirit. one being which is God/the Godhead comprised of 3 persons.


as far as your belief or expectation that god should be the same to everyone. i dont see how you can deny the creator of the universe and all that is in it the ability to serve justice to those who go against him.

we are created things going up against the one who created us. we're going up against a holy god who does not tolerate sin. what is sin?

sin = opposition to the supreme will of God the creator.

we still make idols even today but the biggest idol of men is and always has been "self".

THE W
11-15-2012, 07:57 AM
OP why u post this g? just curious as to why..
this guy seems to be going at christian apologetics from a more logical angle in using science, math, etc. since people in here study these things in length i figured this would be something people would want to discuss.

THE W
11-15-2012, 08:05 AM
i'd advise a christian to ignore the old testament really..to truely love is the embodiment of all the laws of the old testament

what makes one more of a recipient to that Love?
thats the question..
it would be purely ignorant for a christian to forsake the old testament in denying God the right to be a God of justice as well as a God of love.

those who truly bow their knee in submission to the complete sovereignty and supreme authority of God the creator are shown love by God. funny thing about this is most professed christians dont know what this really means in application.

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 08:48 AM
the multiple god issues presented in your links are simply explained by understanding that the bible is speaking of idol gods.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Chronicles%2016:25-26&version=NIV1984

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2044:6-23&version=NIV1984

the first two verses in genesis that are on the multiple gods side of one of your links is speaking of the trinity(god the father, God the son, God the holy spirit).

trinity = the father, son, holy spirit. one being which is God/the Godhead comprised of 3 persons. I know what the trinity is,


as far as your belief or expectation that god should be the same to everyone.No, that is not my belief or expectation i dont see how you can deny the creator of the universe and all that is in it the ability to serve justice to those who go against him. interesting... I dont deny, the universe was created (computer simulation, even mainstream science is confirming this) How does he serve justice to those that go against him? whats going against him? some mans words? no one knows who or when it was written.. have you looked into the texts that christianity stole; so many of their teachings from?

we are created things going up against the one who created us. Thats your belief, I know, we are at one with everything., maybe not on the physcial level, but collective consciousness is one, I dont see myself as created. I JUST AM. how can you create something within a simulation? we're going up against a holy god who does not tolerate sin. what is sin? Sin is whatever one deems as evil, many christians feel guilt tripped, due to the sins of the father spiel... but again, thats not with any proof,. its just a mindfuck....

sin = opposition to the supreme will of God the creator.

Please check out these websites/links
http://www.electricuniverse.info/Introduction
http://goldenmean.info/

To me, it is beyond doubt, that the universe is self aware, its a mental projection of consciousness/itself.

some people might want to see that as god, due to the complexities.. but in reality,, its a fractal hologram..

the science proves it beyond doubt

we still make idols even today but the biggest idol of men is and always has been "self".I agree totally with this, people need to get rid of self/me/ego. and start to look at the whole.

(:

THE W
11-15-2012, 09:01 AM
yes, but the god (or gods) in the 1st testament, have varying tolerance, and to different peoples..

id expect 'god' to be the same to everyone.. unless the writer is playing a mindfuck


so when you said it, you didnt mean it? were you being sarcastic?


also, you said in your first post in this thread that you clicked on "i dont care if absolute truth exists". is this truly your stance?

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 09:16 AM
so when you said it, you didnt mean it? were you being sarcastic?

No i wasnt being sarcastic, i was giving an un biased viewpoint, ive read the bhavangita, ive read the i ching, ive fucked with older (non) english versions of the bible, greek/hebrew.. i wasnt being sarcastic.

I was putting on my neutral head on. as ive checked out so many religions and their works, only by doing that you can see the similarity.. then going back in time, you can see where the origins of these stories came from..


also, you said in your first post in this thread that you clicked on "i dont care if absolute truth exists". is this truly your stance?

no that is not my stance, if that was my stance, i wouldnt be looking into fractals/fibonacci/golden ratio...etc etc, as that is absolute truth

VRsUKEvscHI

^^ is this god? or a universal code??

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 09:28 AM
it would be purely ignorant for a christian to forsake the old testament in denying God the right to be a God of justice as well as a God of love.

those who truly bow their knee in submission to the complete sovereignty and supreme authority of God the creator are shown love by God. funny thing about this is most professed christians dont know what this really means in application.

the old testament wouldnt be needed by someone who has pretty much done away with his/her sinfyl nature

also..fear has no place with love..and Love and Justice are inseperable
..arent they?

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 09:30 AM
fear wont make anyone a good person. perhaps outwardly..but if one looks closely enuf..

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 09:35 AM
the old testament wouldnt be needed by someone who has pretty much done away with his/her sinfyl nature

also..fear has no place with love..and Love and Justice are inseperable
..arent they?


fear wont make anyone a good person. perhaps outwardly..but if one looks closely enuf..


thats teh whole point of religion, keep people trapped in fear, regardless of facts, if you genuinely believe that you are the result of sin, thats some heavy quantum shit, destroying your experience here.. but thats what the mind fuck is... along with.. hey its ok.. i dont care if teh planet turns to shit..(for future generations) cos ill be in heaven!

FEAR = False Emotions Appearing Real.

THE W
11-15-2012, 09:42 AM
VRsUKEvscHI

^^ is this god? or a universal code??
it is God creating that universal code.

awesome aint it?

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 09:44 AM
@SC yep. fear is some toxic shit

THE W
11-15-2012, 09:49 AM
thats teh whole point of religion, keep people trapped in fear, regardless of facts, if you genuinely believe that you are the result of sin, thats some heavy quantum shit, destroying your experience here.. but thats what the mind fuck is... along with.. hey its ok.. i dont care if teh planet turns to shit..(for future generations) cos ill be in heaven!

FEAR = False Emotions Appearing Real.
except im a christian who does not live in fear. why would i need to live in fear?

why do you you THINK i live in fear?

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 10:14 AM
it is God creating that universal code.

awesome aint it?


totally awesome,. if god created that code, why isnt it discussed in any religion??

why doesnt every religion, (or christianity) see the code, and unite humanity? why do most people of religion, try and force their religion, why do they try and take everything, and make it out like 'god' did it, with out any proof

if you do research into that 'code' you will see its part of a simulation.. due to its fractal routes,.

does the bible speak on fractals? does it speak on the electric universe??


the proof is there, that we are in a simulation, ancient cultures knew this.. but the modern day religions refused to put this in their books (besides the i ching)


im sure if you research it more, you will see how it has nothing to do with god, they are software languages for our limited sense of reality (4% visible light)

are you saying god is the 'entity' that made this simulation for us? again, where is the proof of that??

cos ancient cultures say something vastly different....


except im a christian who does not live in fear. why would i need to live in fear?

why do you you THINK i live in fear?


you may not live in fear now, but im sure at one point.. you would have felt, you had to be a good christian to atone for the sins of the father?

what where those sins?? how are they passed onto the children?

you know your subsconcious and conscious are heavily formed at an early age,. do you think, being in fear at those early ages(when you have no experience of anything) is detrimental to ones own progress?

as your whole reality is based off of a book, not even a factual book, no one knows who wrote it, when it was wrote, or how many times it has been edited... but yet thats the book you rely on? (not having a go at you.. sorry if it seems like that...) we are infinite consciousness, to find out about the whole of reality (outside the 4% of visible light) tjeh information would need to come from more than one book, unless you want to remain trapped with that limited belief.. (again no one knows who made the book to begin with, let alone the ideas/stories stolen from older religions..)

I do not think you live in fear, i think christians or any religious person, who trys to justify their religion (to others) or tries to push their religion onto others, is the one living in fear, as factually. there is nothing solid to base anything on.

John Nash
11-15-2012, 10:17 AM
i watched some of the video but he was very boring so i stopped.

and then i went onto his website and realised he was a retard.

i said there was no such thing as absolute morality.

this can easily be explained by the fact that different species have different moralities which suit there existence.

a lion thinks its good to eat his prey.

a buddhist thinks its wrong to eat any animal.

however the website started rambling on about pedophiles without giving a well thought out argument.

it couldve mentioned kants categorical imperative but no it didnt.

truly retarded.

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 10:20 AM
I read today that roughly 40 percent of American's believe God created humans in his image and a further 35 odd percent believe that evolution happened but it was directed by a God.

In a country like this, how can you not expect this kind of desperation to prove something which cannot be proven (or disproven for that matter).

There are some very intelligent individuals who argue well against even the astutest atheists. But their strength is obfuscating the fact that there is no proof for believing in this concept/hypothesis. They rely on the argument that there is more proof for the existence of God than proof that God does not exist. Which is a completely different thing.

i emailed the faggot too
i await a retort

haha, that's great.

except im a christian who does not live in fear. why would i need to live in fear?

why do you you THINK i live in fear?

Why would a Christian live in fear? Life and death is nothing if you subscribe the Judeo-Christian concept of eternal existence.

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 10:22 AM
rakim. i peeped ur kindle post.. i think u would really enjoy the work of this guy..

im not as versed in the greek classics as yourself.. soo

help me out ?

is he on point?? with the greek stuff..

http://www.youtube.com/user/mrastrotheology


AC5hLlh5XpY

4EvrG40qXjM

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 10:25 AM
a buddhist thinks its wrong to eat any animal.




incorrect

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 10:29 AM
different species have different moralities which suit there existence.

.

instinct and morality aint da same

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 10:36 AM
How do you know morality isn't an instinct?

You're right, they're not the same thing, but how do you know instinct doesn't determine morality?

D.projectile
11-15-2012, 10:40 AM
How do you know morality isn't an instinct?

You're right, they're not the same thing, but how do you know instinct doesn't determine morality?

thats a good point.
afta finkin about it
i'd say instincts govern morality

perhaps thats why hypocrisy is purely human

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 10:42 AM
i watched some of the video but he was very boring so i stopped.

and then i went onto his website and realised he was a retard.

i said there was no such thing as absolute morality.

this can easily be explained by the fact that different species have different moralities which suit there existence.

a lion thinks its good to eat his prey.

a buddhist thinks its wrong to eat any animal.

however the website started rambling on about pedophiles without giving a well thought out argument.

it couldve mentioned kants categorical imperative but no it didnt.

truly retarded.

I don't know what your understanding of morality is but you use the word inappropriately a lot.

How can you possibly have read and understood Kant's Categorical Imperative without understanding what the word "morality" means? What on earth does the categorical imperative have to do with your concept of morality in animals? Kant always argued from the position that morality was uniquely human....

John Nash
11-15-2012, 10:43 AM
i'll look into soul. i know a lot more about romans than greeks. i never studied greek. i can translate latin and i can scan the metre in latin poetry but i never looked into greek or roman astrology.

hes calling mercury his latin name throughout instead of his greek name hermes. mercury was the messenger god and a trickster god. hes referenced a lot in alchemy.

the zodiac system came from greco-roman astrology but ive heard that there were originally 13 zodiac signs but they changed it to 12 because christains like the number 12

John Nash
11-15-2012, 10:49 AM
I don't know what your understanding of morality is but you use the word inappropriately a lot.

How can you possibly have read and understood Kant's Categorical Imperative without understanding what the word "morality" means? What on earth does the categorical imperative have to do with your concept of morality in animals? Kant always argued from the position that morality was uniquely human....

was the categorical imperative not this.

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."

this could be tied into absolute morality. an absolute morality would contain maxims that could become a universal law without contradiction.

this is better reasoning than going on a rant about child molesters.

morality is the belief that there are good and wrong actions.

John Nash
11-15-2012, 10:50 AM
instinct and morality aint da same

instinct is an innate inclination/behaviour

morality is the belief that certain things/actions/ideas are good and that others are bad/evil

John Nash
11-15-2012, 10:53 AM
incorrect

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/buddhism/buddhistethics/animals.shtml

buddhists believe in causing as little harm in the world as is possible. therefore being a vegetarian is deemed better than eating animals.

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 10:55 AM
thats a good point.
afta finkin about it
i'd say instincts govern morality

perhaps thats why hypocrisy is purely human

It's tricky though, because the idea that humans have subverted or overcome instinct is often accepted as fact, but it's difficult to determine. It's true that we are aware of our instinct, which most likely separates us from other animals, but that could just be retroactive reasoning as a product of our relative intelligence.

The concept of morality might be purely a reinforcement mechanism, whereby actions positively contributing to the perpetuation of our species are good, with the opposite being true of unproductive behaviour.

This kind of stuff is a quagmire of confusion as far as i'm concerned. Which is why when people make absolutist claims relating to morality they need to be questioned.

ratty mayonnaise
11-15-2012, 10:55 AM
i'll look into soul. i know a lot more about romans than greeks. i never studied greek. i can translate latin and i can scan the metre in latin poetry but i never looked into greek or roman astrology.

hes calling mercury his latin name throughout instead of his greek name hermes. mercury was the messenger god and a trickster god. hes referenced a lot in alchemy.

the zodiac system came from greco-roman astrology but ive heard that there were originally 13 zodiac signs but they changed it to 12 because christains like the number 12


he uses a lot of roman mythology too. yeah the 13th zodiac started with P, i cant recall its name atm.. thankyou bud :D

John Nash
11-15-2012, 10:57 AM
u can easily see morality in animals. such as dog training. u teach ur dog what is good and what is bad.

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 11:03 AM
was the categorical imperative not this.

"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can at the same time will that it should become a universal law without contradiction."

this could be tied into absolute morality. an absolute morality would contain maxims that could become a universal law without contradiction.

this is better reasoning than going on a rant about child molesters.

morality is the belief that there are good and wrong actions.

I agree that enlightenment era philosophy trumps BC era philosophy... that should be a given (well, not in this forum obviously, but everywhere else).

And yes, the categorical imperative is absolutist.... and? What does it have to do with your point about morality extending to other species?

As you said, morality is a concept of "right" and "wrong".... how would you apply this to non human animal behaviour?

John Nash
11-15-2012, 11:05 AM
It's tricky though, because the idea that humans have subverted or overcome instinct is often accepted as fact, but it's difficult to determine. It's true that we are aware of our instinct, which most likely separates us from other animals, but that could just be retroactive reasoning as a product of our relative intelligence.

The concept of morality might be purely a reinforcement mechanism, whereby actions positively contributing to the perpetuation of our species are good, with the opposite being true of unproductive behaviour.

This kind of stuff is a quagmire of confusion as far as i'm concerned. Which is why when people make absolutist claims relating to morality they need to be questioned.

http://www.inp.uw.edu.pl/mdsie/Political_Thought/GeneologyofMorals.pdf

John Nash
11-15-2012, 11:09 AM
I agree that enlightenment era philosophy trumps BC era philosophy... that should be a given (well, not in this forum obviously, but everywhere else).

And yes, the categorical imperative is absolutist.... and? What does it have to do with your point about morality extending to other species?

As you said, morality is a concept of "right" and "wrong".... how would you apply this to non human animal behaviour?

i wasnt applying it to animals. i was saying the guys argument would be better if he connected morality with the categorical imperative.

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 11:12 AM
u can easily see morality in animals. such as dog training. u teach ur dog what is good and what is bad.

That isn't analogous to the our theory of human morality though which is generally seen as something separate from simply rewarding "good" actions. Morality relies on other concepts such as free will and awareness of death. These concepts simply don't apply to other species in the same manner.

The correct phrasing of your post would be something like "you impose your concept of human morality onto your dog by exploiting it's relative lack of intelligence and reliance of basic instinct."

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 11:15 AM
i wasnt applying it to animals. i was saying the guys argument would be better if he connected morality with the categorical imperative.

Ok, i'm not trying to be adversarial, but you clearly did apply morality to animals. It's doesn't matter, i think we both agree this guy's argument is flawed at best

Longbongcilvaringz
11-15-2012, 11:18 AM
http://www.inp.uw.edu.pl/mdsie/Political_Thought/GeneologyofMorals.pdf

I haven't read this, but what little i have read of Nietzsche's on morality is thought provoking and open minded. I'll try and get a copy of this, because i'm not going to read it online....

John Nash
11-15-2012, 11:30 AM
Ok, i'm not trying to be adversarial, but you clearly did apply morality to animals. It's doesn't matter, i think we both agree this guy's argument is flawed at best

i think we might have a differing opinion on morality.

humans definitely have a more complex morality.

morality is just differentiating different things into good and bad.

all animals with a higher level of conciousness do this.

morality can be taught such as training dogs.

by training a dog youve forced him to differentiate different actions into good and bad.

parents do the same thing to their children.

the concept of morality is connected to concepts such as free will but it isnt dependent on them.

also im an existentialist nihilist which means i think life doesnt have an absolute objective meaning. so my opinions might differ from urs.

John Nash
11-15-2012, 11:34 AM
I haven't read this, but what little i have read of Nietzsche's on morality is thought provoking and open minded. I'll try and get a copy of this, because i'm not going to read it online....

do u want to read it on kindle/ipod etc cuz i can email the book to you. or do u prefer to get a paperback version.

THE W
11-15-2012, 12:20 PM
totally awesome,. if god created that code, why isnt it discussed in any religion??

why doesnt every religion, (or christianity) see the code, and unite humanity? why do most people of religion, try and force their religion, why do they try and take everything, and make it out like 'god' did it, with out any proof

if you do research into that 'code' you will see its part of a simulation.. due to its fractal routes,.

does the bible speak on fractals? does it speak on the electric universe??


the proof is there, that we are in a simulation, ancient cultures knew this.. but the modern day religions refused to put this in their books (besides the i ching)


im sure if you research it more, you will see how it has nothing to do with god, they are software languages for our limited sense of reality (4% visible light)

are you saying god is the 'entity' that made this simulation for us? again, where is the proof of that??

cos ancient cultures say something vastly different....





you may not live in fear now, but im sure at one point.. you would have felt, you had to be a good christian to atone for the sins of the father?

what where those sins?? how are they passed onto the children?

you know your subsconcious and conscious are heavily formed at an early age,. do you think, being in fear at those early ages(when you have no experience of anything) is detrimental to ones own progress?

as your whole reality is based off of a book, not even a factual book, no one knows who wrote it, when it was wrote, or how many times it has been edited... but yet thats the book you rely on? (not having a go at you.. sorry if it seems like that...) we are infinite consciousness, to find out about the whole of reality (outside the 4% of visible light) tjeh information would need to come from more than one book, unless you want to remain trapped with that limited belief.. (again no one knows who made the book to begin with, let alone the ideas/stories stolen from older religions..)

I do not think you live in fear, i think christians or any religious person, who trys to justify their religion (to others) or tries to push their religion onto others, is the one living in fear, as factually. there is nothing solid to base anything on.
i dont see why the scriptures would need to document all that stuff. why would i need to know such details?

the scriptures already tell me what i need to do to live a good life on the earth.

yes, i do use the bible as my ultimate authority in matters of truth. what's your ultimate authority?

knewcheeze
11-15-2012, 07:36 PM
the God of scripture is a council of black men....so its pretty logical that you shouldn't worship any man or woman unless that man or woman is yourself.....the God of scripture didn't nessesarily outlaw slavery so.....yeah Elijah wasn't lying when he said Fard was the greatest God to hold the throne of that council....

diggy
11-15-2012, 08:31 PM
soul controller - totally awesome,. if god created that code, why isnt it discussed in any religion??

You could ask why other matters discussed amongst us humans are not in it, but then you would be missing the point of what the scripture is about. It is a book of moral guidance not a science book.

ratty mayonnaise
11-16-2012, 06:35 AM
not a science book.

nor a history book,

could you use the bible or any other religious text in your history lessons? as quantifiable proof?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/396621_514780748540618_2112248474_n.jpg


Nope no irony at all.

D.projectile
11-16-2012, 07:51 AM
i'd advise a christian to ignore the old testament really..

until ready...

D.projectile
11-16-2012, 07:54 AM
You could ask why other matters discussed amongst us humans are not in it, but then you would be missing the point of what the scripture is about. It is a book of moral guidance not a science book.

its multi dimensional and only for the initiates who are ready to absorb the esoteric meanings.

beneath the surface its a book about the self/universe

D.projectile
11-16-2012, 08:00 AM
It's tricky though, because the idea that humans have subverted or overcome instinct is often accepted as fact, but it's difficult to determine. It's true that we are aware of our instinct, which most likely separates us from other animals, but that could just be retroactive reasoning as a product of our relative intelligence.

The concept of morality might be purely a reinforcement mechanism, whereby actions positively contributing to the perpetuation of our species are good, with the opposite being true of unproductive behaviour.

This kind of stuff is a quagmire of confusion as far as i'm concerned. Which is why when people make absolutist claims relating to morality they need to be questioned.

i hear ya..personal evolution stage or quite simply a persons nature and morality must match

D.projectile
11-16-2012, 08:01 AM
oh so thats how you change font colours...dam im a wally

John Nash
11-16-2012, 10:52 AM
oh so thats how you change font colours...dam im a wally

http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/misc.php?do=bbcode

THE W
11-16-2012, 06:01 PM
nor a history book,

thats not the purpose of the bible either.

the purpose of the bible is to tell us who God is, to tell us about his sovereignty and authority over his creation , and tell us how mankind is to live in order to honor and glorify him.

pro.Graveface
11-17-2012, 05:47 AM
thats not the purpose of the bible either.

the purpose of the bible is to tell us who God is, to tell us about his sovereignty and authority over his creation , and tell us how mankind is to live in order to honor and glorify him.
tere is no book or person who can tel u who god or what it is about, u must experience! any human acquainted form is trickery, it guides till u must jump!

ratty mayonnaise
11-17-2012, 06:07 AM
thats not the purpose of the bible either.

the purpose of the bible is to tell us who God is, to tell us about his sovereignty and authority over his creation , and tell us how mankind is to live in order to honor and glorify him.


so much wrong with this (in my view) that i wouldnt know where to start, I've asked about previous cultures where the bible has taken almost all its writings from, but you ignore that...you take teh word of the bible as final, not putting into question, where it came from. who wrote it, and for what purpose.... if you feel you need to know about sovereignty and authority, from books written by man(edited by more men, not to mention, the books they dont want you to even know exist, that used to be part of the bible) not the direct word of god, then thats upto you. i dont think bad or good on that.. its upto you. its your experience here, you dont need books to tell you how to live, and even if you did, why havent the westernised peoples with power(elite) who are 'christians' done what they're holly book wants them too? (live in order) unless your saying to honor and glorify him. they do what they do (oppress others)

i only disagree with your last few words... why would god want you to glorify and honor him? wouldnt he want you to live your life, as best you can at peace with humanity?? respecting everything around you

what do you think of other modern day religions? are their gods the same as yours?
why do you put christianity ahead of all other...

pro.Graveface
11-17-2012, 06:16 AM
program!

THE W
11-17-2012, 06:55 PM
so much wrong with this (in my view) that i wouldnt know where to start, I've asked about previous cultures where the bible has taken almost all its writings from, but you ignore that...you take teh word of the bible as final, not putting into question, where it came from. who wrote it, and for what purpose.... if you feel you need to know about sovereignty and authority, from books written by man(edited by more men, not to mention, the books they dont want you to even know exist, that used to be part of the bible) not the direct word of god, then thats upto you. i dont think bad or good on that.. its upto you. its your experience here, you dont need books to tell you how to live, and even if you did, why havent the westernised peoples with power(elite) who are 'christians' done what they're holly book wants them too? (live in order) unless your saying to honor and glorify him. they do what they do (oppress others)

i only disagree with your last few words... why would god want you to glorify and honor him? wouldnt he want you to live your life, as best you can at peace with humanity?? respecting everything around you

what do you think of other modern day religions? are their gods the same as yours?
why do you put christianity ahead of all other...
so of these books from the bible that are not included, do they totally contradict the testimony of the ones that are included?

i dont expect those opposed to God to accept someone telling them that God made them for the purpose of honoring and glorifying him. since they see themselves as God, why would they want to honor or glorify anyone but themself? where did i say that the bible teaches us about sovereignty and authority? i said the bible teaching us about god's sovereignty and authority and how were are to honor God's sovereignty and authority with our lives. doing this is not to God's benefit, its to our benefit. just like a child obeying their parents is not to benefit the parents, but the child.

i fail to see how those disobeying the commands of the God they claim to serve means anything. they disobey for the same reason everyone else does. their god is the image they see in the mirror.

i also dont see the significance of pointing out that the bible has been edited by men. the theory of evolution and the big bang theory have also been edited by men. and? scientists dont use carbon dating for fossils anymore and use anothe rmethod because its more accurate. bible scholars do research on the original languages that the bible was wirtten in to more accurately translate what the original writers were saying.

what are these cultures or religions that the bible has taken things from?

THE W
11-17-2012, 07:02 PM
tere is no book or person who can tel u who god or what it is about, u must experience! any human acquainted form is trickery, it guides till u must jump!
except the book that is inspired by God. which is the bible.

2 timothy 3:14-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%203:14-17&version=NIV

the bible has all a believer needs to know about who the God they serve is and how to honor and glorify him with their lives.

of course if you are an unbeliever, this book would be of no use to you and comes off as rubbish. the bible already points this out.

1 Corinthians 1:18-25
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-25&version=NIV

so we get it.

ratty mayonnaise
11-17-2012, 08:03 PM
so of these books from the bible that are not included, do they totally contradict the testimony of the ones that are included?

i dont expect those opposed to God to accept someone telling them that God made them for the purpose of honoring and glorifying him. since they see themselves as God, why would they want to honor or glorify anyone but themself? ego is the worst part of man, to find self, get rid of ego. i dont glorify myself, almost everything i do is for others., where did i say that the bible teaches us about sovereignty and authority? i said the bible teaching us about god's sovereignty and authority and how were are to honor God's sovereignty and authority with our lives. doing this is not to God's benefit, its to our benefit. just like a child obeying their parents is not to benefit the parents, but the child. i agree, i have seen many religious people at peace with themselves, with the world, and everything.. but they never tried to force anything onto anyone, they always see the good and want to help, but you dont need to be with god, or believing in god or his sovereignty to feel like that about people and every living creature on this planet

i fail to see how those disobeying the commands of the God they claim to serve means anything. they disobey for the same reason everyone else does. their god is the image they see in the mirror.i agree most peoples ego, makes them think they are god, i always ask moderately religious people (who try to get me to believe in god)of all religions,, why dont you., (ddependent on religion) be baptised, keep your hair, stop eating meat/drinking, prey when your supposed too, ie, do everything your god asks of you, give your all.. isnt that the purpose? to which they always reply defensivly in the vein of you cant tell me how to worship my god, its upto me.. i usually respond with.. well if you do everything your book asks of you, surely your life would be how your god would want you to live it, thus you get full rewards....

i dont say it to be cheeky, just to get that person to think about what the religion is telling him at heart. love and respect all. get on with everyone..

i also dont see the significance of pointing out that the bible has been edited by men. the theory of evolution and the big bang theory that theory actually came from a Christian.. lol. which is why i dont go for it.. thats why i posted the electric universe theory..which is part of a fractal reality.. ill post pic :D as that to me is way more correct, as everything fits in.. as we/i said earlier.. its the code.. modern science separates everything.. instead of bringing it together.. i think the whole system of science is on wrong models of this reality,, they need to look at the base(waves/frequency/vibration) of it, not the end result(physical reality) have also been edited by men. and? scientists dont use carbon dating for fossils anymore and use anothe rmethod because its more accurate. Correct, that is due to the sun, and cosmic rays that have been hitting us, they have been changing the decay rates since late 2010... but as i said modern science is stubborn as fuck. dogmatic as religion.. :p bible scholars do research on the original languages that the bible was wirtten in to more accurately translate what the original writers were saying.

what are these cultures or religions that the bible has taken things from? google, mythra, the epic of gilgamesh ,, lots of storys from sumer, from osirus (resurrection) apollonius of tyana ... in fact i see it as. all religions are secretly pagan, as all festivels, rituals, special days ... are in co relation to the effect of the sun or the moon.... but if u want to get deeper,, or all the religions are saturnalia... could get deep into that if you like..


basically we/everything is electro magnetic energy

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/536138_364327090288389_1929567167_n.jpg



somewhere in a fractal holographic infiniteverse

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/251922_377651288955969_924323375_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/318066_376684639052634_806610295_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/197733_377651442289287_1997865370_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/555935_384302354957529_1533970325_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/600398_384302368290861_1169245073_n.jpg


has to be a fractal reality.., the micro/macro levels is the same..

https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/602310_384320971622334_404310951_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/558809_428331843887913_1992592327_n.jpghttps://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/305588_428331830554581_1021464064_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/374098_428331857221245_108260434_n.jpg


AnUeWYkAPW8

1XSqcAq0A9k

s65DSz78jW4

THE W
11-17-2012, 11:52 PM
some more interesting stuff here....

JFI6m6Icav4

THE W
11-18-2012, 09:30 AM
ego is the worst part of man, to find self, get rid of ego. i dont glorify myself, almost everything i do is for others.,actually someone who doesnt care about glorifying themself tends to be a selfish miserly individual as they're more concerned with gratification than glorification.

doing things for others is the way to glorify yourself. to do things for other people is to cause them to give you credit for what you have done for them. its the reason we desire gratitude for the things we do for people. its more or less what glory is. your impact on other people.

Mumm Ra
11-18-2012, 09:40 AM
so, what stops someone from doing good things for others and not seeking credit?

THE W
11-18-2012, 10:17 AM
so, what stops someone from doing good things for others and not seeking credit?
its only bad to get credit for what you do when it becomes your only motivation for doing things for others.

pro.Graveface
11-19-2012, 02:08 AM
except the book that is inspired by God. which is the bible.

2 timothy 3:14-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2%20Timothy%203:14-17&version=NIV

the bible has all a believer needs to know about who the God they serve is and how to honor and glorify him with their lives.

of course if you are an unbeliever, this book would be of no use to you and comes off as rubbish. the bible already points this out.

1 Corinthians 1:18-25
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201:18-25&version=NIV

so we get it.

this is still interpretation, instead of walking the path, by the imagination of the guidance tru connection, u try to preach me in your limeted believe system, "the bible allready points this out" com'on yo.
peace

D.projectile
11-19-2012, 06:34 AM
its only bad to get credit for what you do when it becomes your only motivation for doing things for others.

who is da 'old man'?[COLOR="blue and cream"]

ratty mayonnaise
11-19-2012, 07:46 AM
i dont fucks with zeitgeist, or venus project or project camelot.

actually someone who doesnt care about glorifying themself tends to be a selfish miserly individual as they're more concerned with gratification than glorification.

doing things for others is the way to glorify yourself. to do things for other people is to cause them to give you credit for what you have done for them. its the reason we desire gratitude for the things we do for people. its more or less what glory is. your impact on other people.


your seeing that from your viewpoint,..

from my viewpoint. EVERYONE IS ONE, EVERYONE IS CONNECTED, FOR PHYSICAL CHANGE TO MANIFEST,
A CONSCIOUS CHANGE NEEDS TO HAPPEN

I DONT DO THINGS FOR OTHERS JUST TO GET CREDIT, OR BECAUSE I WANT IN RETURN,

I DONT DESIRE GRATIFICATION, AS THAT WOULD BOOST EGO.

EGO STOPS HUMANITY FROM PROGRESSING

WHEN WE SEE EVERYONE AS EQUAL, WE PROGRESS, HELPING WITH WHATEVER SKILLS YOU HAZ.

THE W
11-19-2012, 10:48 AM
this is still interpretation, instead of walking the path, by the imagination of the guidance tru connection, u try to preach me in your limeted believe system, "the bible allready points this out" com'on yo.
peace
"by the imiagination of the guidence true connection"

what do you mean by this?

THE W
11-19-2012, 10:55 AM
i dont fucks with zeitgeist, or venus project or project camelot.




your seeing that from your viewpoint,..

from my viewpoint. EVERYONE IS ONE, EVERYONE IS CONNECTED, FOR PHYSICAL CHANGE TO MANIFEST,
A CONSCIOUS CHANGE NEEDS TO HAPPEN

I DONT DO THINGS FOR OTHERS JUST TO GET CREDIT, OR BECAUSE I WANT IN RETURN,

I DONT DESIRE GRATIFICATION, AS THAT WOULD BOOST EGO.

EGO STOPS HUMANITY FROM PROGRESSING

WHEN WE SEE EVERYONE AS EQUAL, WE PROGRESS, HELPING WITH WHATEVER SKILLS YOU HAZ.
i put that zeitgiest rebuttal video up to respond to your comments about the bible borrowing from other cultures and myths. i would still like to know what books of the bible you say are missing and whether or not those books contradict the testimony of the ones that are included.

in what way do you see us as being one and connected?

ratty mayonnaise
11-19-2012, 01:13 PM
^^ the 1st line of my sig..

THE W
11-19-2012, 01:58 PM
^^ the 1st line of my sig..
i have sig and images shut off. do you mind copy/pasting your sig into a reply?

John Nash
11-19-2012, 02:04 PM
i have sig and images shut off. do you mind copy/pasting your sig into a reply?

"my own conscious is beyond universal, there is no seperation only fragments of experience making sense of physical material existence on the path back to the source of all."

THE W
11-19-2012, 02:14 PM
so we're similar and perceive reality based on our experiences?

John Nash
11-19-2012, 04:01 PM
so we're similar and perceive reality based on our experiences?

not sure i was just quoting soles sig

pro.Graveface
11-20-2012, 02:34 AM
"by the imiagination of the guidence true connection"

what do you mean by this?

Nature and her hidden aspects to devolup!

THE W
11-20-2012, 08:43 AM
Nature and her hidden aspects to devolup!
develop what?

this all comes back to men, created things, trying to establish their own godliness apart from God. there's nothing that you know or have that wasnt given to you by God the creator, yet you deny his authority and replace it with your own.

humanism is a religion in itself. its the reason why eve took the fruit God told her not to. she wanted to be on God's level.

pro.Graveface
11-20-2012, 11:10 AM
develop what?

this all comes back to men, created things, trying to establish their own godliness apart from God. there's nothing that you know or have that wasnt given to you by God the creator, yet you deny his authority and replace it with your own.

humanism is a religion in itself. its the reason why eve took the fruit God told her not to. she wanted to be on God's level.

hahaa! that is what u believe! zero point motionless, while it is constantly moving!
peace

plaugexX
08-29-2013, 08:41 PM
I find it illogical to believe in the God described in the scriptures. A lot of what they prescribe as "Acts of God" are purely far-fetched. Even the followers of modern day christianity dont believe in those incidences. They dismiss them as allegories or parables. An all powerful, all loving god is simply not rational looking at the condition of todays society. God can no more control me than he can control a serial killer. This anthropomorphic conception is powerless in the real world.

IrOnMaN
08-29-2013, 10:50 PM
I find it illogical to believe in the God described in the scriptures. A lot of what they prescribe as "Acts of God" are purely far-fetched. Even the followers of modern day christianity dont believe in those incidences. They dismiss them as allegories or parables. An all powerful, all loving god is simply not rational looking at the condition of todays society. God can no more control me than he can control a serial killer. This anthropomorphic conception is powerless in the real world.

Powerless? We were given free will to do as we please on earth. Of course God has no control over you, the president, congress, the criminals or even the laws.

God never made the world the way that it is, we did it. Free will.

plaugexX
08-30-2013, 12:56 AM
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death.


-Albert Einstein

THE W
08-30-2013, 10:08 AM
A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hopes of reward after death.


-Albert Einstein
yeah and society is going down the tubes. but hey, at least people get to do what they want.

no moral standard = social decline

also a comment on the emboldened sentence. people do this anyway. people fear jail and death and want to be liked and accepted by others. albert's statement is contradictory.

PANDA PISS
08-30-2013, 09:12 PM
yeah and society is going down the tubes. but hey, at least people get to do what they want.

no moral standard = social decline

also a comment on the emboldened sentence. people do this anyway. people fear jail and death and want to be liked and accepted by others. albert's statement is contradictory.

So you think if murder was legalized everybody would be frivolously murdering people? Also your statement is contradictory, if people want to be liked and accepted they wouldn't do the kind of shit that would put them in jail.

Don't forget plenty of these backwards ass religious folk are more than happy to murder for their 'gods'. They actually don't understand the best idea in religion: 'treat people as you want to be treated'.

IrOnMaN
08-31-2013, 01:36 PM
You people fail to understand that we as humans are flawed! People fail to understand that we are violent by nature. When the chips are down and when money gets short, people will kill without mercy. We are animals! God and Jesus knew this. To contain us with religious beliefs is silly. As I stated before, we're given free will.

Do as you please!

PANDA PISS
08-31-2013, 02:11 PM
You people fail to understand that we as humans are flawed! People fail to understand that we are violent by nature. When the chips are down and when money gets short, people will kill without mercy. We are animals! God and Jesus knew this. To contain us with religious beliefs is silly. As I stated before, we're given free will.

Do as you please!

You fail to understand anything, dumbass.

THE W
08-31-2013, 04:27 PM
So you think if murder was legalized everybody would be frivolously murdering people? Also your statement is contradictory, if people want to be liked and accepted they wouldn't do the kind of shit that would put them in jail.

Don't forget plenty of these backwards ass religious folk are more than happy to murder for their 'gods'. They actually don't understand the best idea in religion: 'treat people as you want to be treated'.
you've misunderstood my comments.

albert says we shouldnt do things based on fear and punishment and hopes of reward right after saying we should base our ethical behavior on those very things. in fact, its by those very things that atheists feebly attempt to conjure up a moral standard.

jail, social exile, failure, etc = punishment

relationships, success, freedom, etc = rewards

anyone killing for a 'god' isnt doing it for the God of the bible.

IrOnMaN
08-31-2013, 05:25 PM
You fail to understand anything, dumbass.

Please don't troll me, Sosa.

you've misunderstood my comments.

albert says we shouldnt do things based on fear and punishment and hopes of reward right after saying we should base our ethical behavior on those very things. in fact, its by those very things that atheists feebly attempt to conjure up a moral standard.

jail, social exile, failure, etc = punishment

relationships, success, freedom, etc = rewards

anyone killing for a 'god' isnt doing it for the God of the bible.

Is this so? In the bible, it states God had people kill for him. David, Joshua, etc.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-31-2013, 06:46 PM
You people fail to understand that we as humans are flawed! People fail to understand that we are violent by nature. When the chips are down and when money gets short, people will kill without mercy. We are animals! God and Jesus knew this. To contain us with religious beliefs is silly. As I stated before, we're given free will.

Do as you please!

If we are flawed then the god of the bible made us that way, yeah? What's up with that?

We are given free will? By whom? Were we given it like a gift? So there was a time when we didn't have free will before we were "given" free will?

If it is our nature to be violent (hypothetically speaking of course, my nature is certainly not violent) then what good is the gift of free will? By definition we are fighting a losing battle from the start. A battle that we were thrown into by the bible god.

The ultimate point being that a god who sets his supposed most beloved creation up for failure, then get's angry and vengeful when they inevitably fail, but then demands worship so that he might "save" them (from himself), is a psychotic, neurotic and confused being. And those that blindly follow him....? What did Yashu'a/Jesus say about the blind leading the blind?

PANDA PISS
08-31-2013, 06:49 PM
you've misunderstood my comments.

albert says we shouldnt do things based on fear and punishment and hopes of reward right after saying we should base our ethical behavior on those very things. in fact, its by those very things that atheists feebly attempt to conjure up a moral standard.

jail, social exile, failure, etc = punishment

relationships, success, freedom, etc = rewards

anyone killing for a 'god' isnt doing it for the God of the bible.

No i understood that. Alberts point is you should make your own decisions based on what happens in REAL life.

Seriously 6 billion of you motherfuckers, which group of yalls religion is right and which ones are kidding themselves?

THE W
08-31-2013, 06:58 PM
Is this so? In the bible, it states God had people kill for him. David, Joshua, etc.

God punished people and nations for their sin and in some cases used means to do it, like other people and other nations.

no one who is apart of the new testament church under the headship of Jesus Christ has warrant to harm anyone.

THE W
08-31-2013, 07:03 PM
Seriously 6 billion of you motherfuckers, which group of yalls religion is right and which ones are kidding themselves?

there's one true God and 5.9999..billion forms of idolatry.



The ultimate point being that a god who sets his supposed most beloved creation up for failure, then get's angry and vengeful when they inevitably fail, but then demands worship so that he might "save" them (from himself), is a psychotic, neurotic and confused being. And those that blindly follow him....? What did Yashu'a/Jesus say about the blind leading the blind?

this would only be a valid point if the sin you commit wasnt exactly what you desired to do.

PANDA PISS
08-31-2013, 07:09 PM
No there isn't a god. Don't be ridiculous.

Face of the Golden Falcon
08-31-2013, 08:17 PM
there's one true God and 5.9999..billion forms of idolatry.



this would only be a valid point if the sin you commit wasnt exactly what you desired to do.

No. It's still a valid point. If one desires to do wrong then according to your religion the Bible god created us with that desire. So the point still stands.

If we want to get into a true understanding of what a desire is then we will see that desires are not an accurate representation of the heart of a man when he has been subject to millennia after millennia of psychological conditionings by the very people who created your religion. Time and again countless examples of wise men and sages, mystics and shamans who have been prepared to run the gauntlet of their own shadow, who do the necessary work of stripping away the conditionings placed upon them have shown that man will naturally desire righteousness.

THE W
09-12-2013, 12:08 PM
No. It's still a valid point. If one desires to do wrong then according to your religion the Bible god created us with that desire. So the point still stands.

no, it doesnt stand unless you're saying that deep down you want to repent of your sin and worship Jesus Christ and God is forcing you not to.

If we want to get into a true understanding of what a desire is then we will see that desires are not an accurate representation of the heart of a man when he has been subject to millennia after millennia of psychological conditionings by the very people who created your religion. Time and again countless examples of wise men and sages, mystics and shamans who have been prepared to run the gauntlet of their own shadow, who do the necessary work of stripping away the conditionings placed upon them have shown that man will naturally desire righteousness.

the shaman and the mystic are doing what they want to do just like the porn addict and the drunkard are doing what they want to do. they're both conditioned by their environment and experiences to go a certain path.

so what's your point?




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THE W
09-12-2013, 12:15 PM
No there isn't a god. Don't be ridiculous.

there's also no big bang or instance where one animal changes into a completely different kind of animal.

these are also ridiculous.

PANDA PISS
09-12-2013, 01:10 PM
there's also no big bang or instance where one animal changes into a completely different kind of animal.

these are also ridiculous.

From our current scientific knowledge a big bang seems likely although we don't have the full picture yet.

And nobody said animals change into completely new species, rather it happens through slight mutations and survival of the fittest of those mutations.

The fact that these things might be untrue is no reason to join a cult because you can't make sense of your life. They prey on the weak.

Face of the Golden Falcon
09-13-2013, 12:25 AM
no, it doesnt stand unless you're saying that deep down you want to repent of your sin and worship Jesus Christ and God is forcing you not to.

This is exactly what the Bible says happens:

Exodus 9:12 - But the Lord hardened pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses.

Not only did the Bible god harden pharaoh's heart he did it just to make his prediction correct. The acts of a petty, non-omniscient god. Not to mention the psychopathy involved in toying with the very soul and fate of a man. But that is just one example. According to the bible non of us have any choice as to whether we are saved from this god's punishment.

Ephesians 1:4 - For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will...

John 6:65 - "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.

According to the Bible I have no "deep down". My destiny and my heart (my desires) are decided by the Bible god.


the shaman and the mystic are doing what they want to do just like the porn addict and the drunkard are doing what they want to do. they're both conditioned by their environment and experiences to go a certain path.

so what's your point?.

You have no idea of the definitions of the words you are even using. How can you say that these people are truly doing what they want to when you say they are conditioned? If they are being conditioned, especially in the case of it being against their free will, (although the verse above prove that you shouldn't even believe in such a thing according to the bible, though I'm sure it implies that we have free will else where in there somewhere. Another of the many contradictions of that "book") then they cannot be said to be necessarily "doing what they want".

You also completely disregarded my statement saying that the mystic, Wiseman etc. have freed themselves from their conditionings by saying that they are conditioned. If you are going to completely skew the particulars of my comments how do you think you will ever understand the point?