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Wamukota X
11-09-2005, 02:59 PM
Do Evolutionist believe in Abiogenesis aka Spontaneous Generation?

If so, explain why.

My First Timbs
11-09-2005, 03:31 PM
most do and some dont

the reasoning of why would be a 100 page letter

i believe in abiogenesis and the mechanism of it working in a reducing atmosphere

Wamukota X
11-09-2005, 03:59 PM
I don't understand your response.

LHX
11-09-2005, 04:51 PM
as long as they can see what was there before it

Wamukota X
11-10-2005, 10:30 AM
most do and some dont

the reasoning of why would be a 100 page letter

i believe in abiogenesis and the mechanism of it working in a reducing atmosphere
Most of the population of Europe during the 1500 and 1600's believed a pile of soiled rags mixed with old corn husk in a corner would give birth to rats after a few days. Today people will laugh at such words but they honestly believed that until they were given more scientific explanations. What scientific experiments or explanations can you offer for your belief in Abiogenesis and, "the mechanism of it working in a reducing atmosphere." I understand this can be a lengthy topic.

Os3y3ris
11-10-2005, 11:27 AM
Most "evolutionists" do NOT believe in abiogenisis. That is ridiculous. Where everything came from, as thats bound to come up, is still a mystery, but on a day to day level, or actually, at any point since the beginning of the universe, the answer is no.

My First Timbs
11-10-2005, 01:57 PM
Most "evolutionists" do NOT believe in abiogenisis. That is ridiculous. Where everything came from, as thats bound to come up, is still a mystery, but on a day to day level, or actually, at any point since the beginning of the universe, the answer is no.
most evolutionists do believe in abiogenesis

there are several studies on the spontaneous grouping of organic compounds to produce the precursor to rna. i will explain in detail later

Os3y3ris
11-10-2005, 03:10 PM
Hold up. I follow you, but you've got the wrong idea. Abiogenesis as the rise of life, is one thing. Abiogenisis as spontaneous generation, which is another issue entirely, is proven false though. The creation of simple life from protiens and what have you is hardly spontaneous. On a molecular level, it all fits together. What spontaneous generation implies though, is the creation of a fully evolved and developed organism, like the fly, from the presence of something like old meat.

LHX
11-10-2005, 03:12 PM
Hold up. I follow you, but you've got the wrong idea. Abiogenesis as the rise of life, is one thing. Abiogenisis as spontaneous generation, which is another issue entirely, is proven false though. The creation of simple life from protiens and what have you is hardly spontaneous. On a molecular level, it all fits together. What spontaneous generation implies though, is the creation of a fully evolved and developed organism, like the fly, from the presence of something like old meat.

hahaahahhahahahaaaaaaa

there is no fly - and suddenly there is a fly

on that note



where did all these words come from?

(abiogenesis?)

My First Timbs
11-10-2005, 04:29 PM
Hold up. I follow you, but you've got the wrong idea. Abiogenesis as the rise of life, is one thing. Abiogenisis as spontaneous generation, which is another issue entirely, is proven false though. The creation of simple life from protiens and what have you is hardly spontaneous. On a molecular level, it all fits together. What spontaneous generation implies though, is the creation of a fully evolved and developed organism, like the fly, from the presence of something like old meat.
u are mistaken

abiogenesis has nothing to do with the spontaneous formation of a living breathing multicellular organism

trust me.. abiogenesis is nothing but the theory of the creation of life ultimately from components that are inanimate

abiogenesis simply explains that life began from inanimate components (those components being organic compounds that lead to the development of the precursor to what we know as biological compounds ie rna, proteins, amino acids.. etc)

the issue of a fully formed creature popping into existence is hardly what abiogenesis refers to

Wamukota X
11-10-2005, 05:20 PM
Abiogenesis and Spontaneous Generation are synonymous.

whiteguy
11-10-2005, 05:58 PM
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My First Timbs
11-10-2005, 09:41 PM
Abiogenesis and Spontaneous Generation are synonymous.
i agree totally.. but see this is why the language and words ppl use when discussing these topics is so so important!

abiogenesis and spontaneous generation have NOTHING to do with for example a "fly" popping into existence.

when spontaneous generation and abiogenesis are discussed they are referring to the spontaneous grouping of the components of life to form a simple organism (but not a MULTICELLULAR organism!)

thats the crucial detail that cant be glossed over !

Os3y3ris
11-11-2005, 12:19 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_generation#History_of_abiogenesis_hypo theses

I suppose we're both right. It applies to many theories, some disproved, others accepted.

Wamukota X
11-11-2005, 10:33 AM
most do and some dont

the reasoning of why would be a 100 page letter

i believe in abiogenesis and the mechanism of it working in a reducing atmosphere
I disagree. First lets get back to the original question. Lets put semantics aside for a moment. You stated, "i believe in abiogenesis and the mechanism of it working in a reducing atmosphere." Can please clarify your statement? I'm just trying to understand your point of view.

EDIT: I disagree with your comment about Abiogenesis and Spontaneous generation.

Os3y3ris
11-11-2005, 10:51 AM
Lets clarify the semantics real quick. Could you define and qualify both abiogenesis and spontaneous generation for us?

My First Timbs
11-13-2005, 07:50 PM
abiogenesis and spontaneous generation are one in the same thing in terms of biology.

they describe a process (as opposed to a singular pinpoint "event").. that process being that the first life on earth resulted from inanimate components

th eproblem comeinto the play once u go a bit deeper. ppl tend to equate the words "spontaneous generation" with some sort of mystical magic trick where u have nothing and and then all of a sudden u have a fully formed creature.. thats not how it works and not the process defined by abiogenesis.

what i mean by reducing atmosphere is that the early earth atmosphere was rich in hydrogen. a reducing atmosphere (and in earths case lets be clear.. it was "mildly reducing, but reducing nontheless) contains molecules that are able to "reduce" other molecules... most importantly to this topic is that a mildly reducing atmosphere allows "organic" molecules to form (made up of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen and sometimes nitrogen)

the early earth atmosphere (due to its constant bombardment with meteorites and volcanic activity) provided all the necessary components.

the issue now is,, whether the components that led to life on earth are really terrestrial (originating from earth) in origin or did the earth get "seeded" with these components via hitching a ride on a meteor from another planet.

abiogenesis (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=30958387&blogID=60667187)

Wamukota X
11-14-2005, 08:00 AM
I was viewing this from a biological stand point. Thank you for the clarification on Abiogenesis and Spontaneous Generation.

Wamukota X
11-14-2005, 09:27 AM
Lets clarify the semantics real quick. Could you define and qualify both abiogenesis and spontaneous generation for us?

The link you posted earlier in this forum explains both.

Wamukota X
11-14-2005, 12:55 PM
the issue now is,, whether the components that led to life on earth are really terrestrial (originating from earth) in origin or did the earth get "seeded" with these components via hitching a ride on a meteor from another planet.

abiogenesis (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=30958387&blogID=60667187)

Your talking about panspermia? Correct

Fatal Guillotine
10-26-2012, 09:40 AM
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