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View Full Version : For Whom Was The Holy Qur'an ULTIMATELY Intended? - Pt. 4


7EL7
02-09-2006, 03:16 PM
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In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful...the Best Knower.

As-Salaam Alaikum, Family.

Surah 48

M.M. ALI
8. Surely We have sent thee as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,
9. That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him. And (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

First Person = Allah
Second Person = ?
Third Person = His Messenger

WHO IS IT that is being spoken TO here, in the SECOND person? It CAN'T be the Messenger, because the Messenger is referred to in the same thought in the THIRD person. The following two translations reflect similar structure.

SHAKIR:
8. Surely We have sent you as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,
9. That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him; and (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

KHALIFA:
8. We have sent you as a witness, a bearer of good news, and a warner.
9. That you people may believe in GOD and His messenger, and reverence Him, and observe Him, and glorify Him, day and night.


The following two translators seem to suggest a shift in focus which is linguistically illogical. It would make more sense if it had read, "...in order that THEY may believe...", but this is not what ALLAH revealed. Allah makes no mistakes in His revelation, and the different Translators seem to agree on the literal translation. It is in how they choose to INTERPRET Allah's Words that these last two differ from the previous three. There is nothing in the tone and flow of this passage to suggest that the "thee" in verse 8 is different from the "ye" in verse 9.

YUSUFALI:
8. We have truly sent thee as a witness, as a bringer of Glad Tidings, and as a Warner:
9. In order that ye (O men) may believe in Allah and His Messenger, that ye may assist and honour Him, and celebrate His praise morning and evening.

PICKTHAL:
8. Lo! We have sent thee (O Muhammad) as a witness and a bearer of good tidings and a warner,
9. That ye (mankind) may believe in Allah and His messenger, and may honour Him, and may revere Him, and may glorify Him at early dawn and at the close of day.

What do you all think?

RM

LHX
02-09-2006, 03:38 PM
maybe this just reflects the fact that a messenger needs an audience
just as much as an audience needs a messenger

(maybe even more so)


can you imagine how you would feel if nobody responded to your post?
or gave you feedback on your words?
if there was no ignorance to be filled with knowledge?

Aqueous Moon
02-09-2006, 03:40 PM
The translation from PICKTHAL is interesting to me because he refers to the ye in verse 9 as mankind.

I'm wondering why he said mankind. There is only one kind of man, we don't come in different species, do we?

There must be a thing that is like a man and is in need of divine guidance.

So, who or what would that thing be ?

7EL7
02-09-2006, 04:00 PM
A THING ?


TO YOU IT JUST CAN'T BE A MAN HUH ?

BlaK FuRYaN
02-09-2006, 04:16 PM
From what i know, Allah is exhaulting Himself...

people try to do it by not addressing themselves or being addressed directly.
The Queen does it too.

Some one would ask..."would the Queen like...."
or the queen would say "The Queen wants a seat..."

All exhaltations are for Allah...

7EL7
02-09-2006, 04:35 PM
HE'S EXAULTING HIMSELF WHERE ?




WE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO HE WAS REFERING TO HERE


Surah 48

M.M. ALI
8. Surely We have sent thee as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,
9. That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him. And (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

First Person = Allah
Second Person = ?
Third Person = His Messenger


WHO DID HE SEND ?

Aqueous Moon
02-09-2006, 06:06 PM
A THING ?


TO YOU IT JUST CAN'T BE A MAN HUH ?


LOL...well, I never take things on face value.

I think this is a very good topic you have posted, though.

LHX
02-09-2006, 07:45 PM
he sent us

to receive the message
and
keep the messenger in check

Hellspawn
02-10-2006, 05:00 AM
HE'S EXAULTING HIMSELF WHERE ?




WE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO HE WAS REFERING TO HERE


Surah 48

M.M. ALI
8. Surely We have sent thee as a witness and as a bearer of good news and as a warner,
9. That you may believe in Allah and His Messenger and may aid him and revere him. And (that) you may declare His glory, morning and evening.

First Person = Allah
Second Person = ?
Third Person = His Messenger


WHO DID HE SEND ?


8. Verily, We have sent you (O Muhammad SAW) as a witness, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner.
9. In order that you (O mankind) may believe in All‚h and His Messenger (SAW), and that you assist and honour him (SAW), and (that you) glorify (All‚h's) praises morning and afternoon

LORD NOSE
02-10-2006, 09:55 AM
that makes sense - but who knows for shure ?

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 10:08 AM
I believe those books where meant for people who would otherwise be reading self help manuals. I'm not telling you it's all hogwash, or hoo-palloo, but if it were that, how would you know.
In any case. These books were written at a time when the large portion of people couldn't read and did not have law. They had ignorance and anarchy. They were uncivilized.
At this point we can say that many of the "moral" issues that are taught thru these texts are survival tactics. I am not humping my neighbors pig because he might shoot me. Not that my neighbor has a pig but you get the idea. If you dishonor youself or you're neighbor than surviving in that atmosphere will come down to a choice of being called pig-humper or not. You'll have trouble with that nick name so you choose not to claim it. Don't call me a pig humper.
What I'm saying is that these texts were meant as devices to tame the masses and let them know God the Big Boss is watching. After that, law evolved, with literacy, and humans survived another 4000 years or so. A survival tool. But people don't like seein the sausage made, so they still argue. Science is my religion, I'll leave argueing over the spiritual stuff to everyone else.

Hellspawn
02-10-2006, 10:31 AM
http://www.ymofmd.com/books/quranmodernscience.pdf

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 04:24 PM
Good Link
I read it.
I'll explore a bit of this stuff, before I attempt to debunk it.

LORD NOSE
06-30-2009, 11:51 AM
who did he send ?

Mr. Muhammad
06-30-2009, 03:34 PM
Wow...I'm always surprised to see my old posts re-presented by others... (smile).

Salaam!

RM

LORD NOSE
07-02-2009, 01:19 AM
Wow...I'm always surprised to see my old posts re-presented by others... (smile).

Salaam!

RM

yup - that was reposted here on 02-09-2006

zooruka
07-02-2009, 02:54 AM
the only way to GOD is JESUS CHRIST !!!!!!!!!!!!


PRAISE BE TO GOD!!!!!

peace

Urban_Journalz
07-02-2009, 11:02 AM
The Holy Qur'an was ultimately intended for all mankind, as it is the Final Warning, it could not only be sent to one nation, but to all.