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7EL7
02-09-2006, 05:11 PM
http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nJgAAALYKTJzPDaB81V17MbT3W79uHRZMFDNef3yNL f2QxQWVAzLErlt1m1aAFFuzAjEoZTPbazE


IN THE NAME OF ALLAH, THE BENEFICENT, THE MERCIFUL...


According to various dictionaries, the Etymology of the word "exist" is as follows...


exist (ex-sist) => L., existere or exsistere - to step out, or step forth; to emerge or appear;
ex(out) + sistere(to cause to stand, to set, put, place...)


If God "exists", as we believe and know He does, then where did He step out, step forth, emerge or appear from? What did the Originator, in the Beginning (http://groups.msn.com/TheKnowledgeofGodandTheKnowledgeofSelf/wheredidgodcomefrom.msnw), stand out from so that He could be said to "exist"?


Can anything "exist" without having some Form, by which its EXIST-ence can be demonstrated or proven?


In order for ANYTHING to "ex-ist", it must necessarily, by definition, be observably distinct from "non-existence". To "step out", or "step forth", or to "emerge or appear" describes activity within a 3-dimensional context. Therefore, ANYTHING that "exists" must by definition have a Form. How could some"thing" emerge from 3-dimensional space and not be 3-dimensional, itself?


If, then, God "exists", what Form does God have? What Form do Human beings respect most? Can Human beings accept that which is formless as superior to themselves?


In many of the world's great religions the Creator is referred to as "HE", yet most of the people who say they believe in God have great difficulty applying the definition of the word "HE" to God. In the Bible and in the Holy Qur'an, in particular, the Supreme Being is referred to in such terms as "he", "him", "his" and in one instance is plainly referred to as "...a man..". Jesus is referred to, in the Bible, as both the Son of God and the Son of Man.
How could both of these statements be true unless God is Man?


We all understand that Language is a mechanism which is used to convey ideas among people. When we use a particular word to describe a thing, we choose that word because it more accurately conveys the idea which we are trying to communicate, than would some other word.


When we use the word "HE" in reference to the Almighty, what IDEA are we trying to convey? If we are trying to convey an idea that is different from the meaning of the word "HE", then we should use a different word...one more descriptive of the idea we are attempting to give expression to.


If God represents HIMSELF to us as "HE", what IDEA is HE trying to get over to us? What is He telling us about Himself? And why is it apparently so difficult for us to "get it"?


If we are created by God, in the IMAGE and LIKENESS of God, then God must certainly have an IMAGE...a FORM, for we simply cannot be created in the IMAGE of that which cannot be seen.


The Bible teaches us, "...My(GOD's) people are destroyed for the lack of KNOWLEDGE" but that "...in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God shall be finished."

This means that, at a certain point in Time, the people's "lack of knowledge" of God will be ended by the revealing of the REALITY of God...the KNOWLEDGE of God.


And what is the Knowledge of God? It is the same as the Knowledge of Self.




> NOT MY WORDS <

hectis
02-09-2006, 06:52 PM
God Exist Trust Me I Heard Him Talk As Far As Jesus Being Both The Sun Of God And Man He Is The Sun Of Man Cuz Mary Is Human Humans ArE Called Man As In Mankind He Is The Sun Of God Cuz God Wuz The One Who Got Mary To Have A Baby With Out Sex AS ONLY HE COULD DO Also He Is The Sun Of God Cuz Everyone Is The Children Of God

hectis
02-09-2006, 06:59 PM
Also The Knowledge Of God Is 100% The Truth Many People Lack The Truth And God Will Show Them The Truth In The End Times

Aqueous Moon
02-09-2006, 07:12 PM
God does exists but, only if I exist...

Sexy Jasper
02-09-2006, 07:18 PM
God exists if pigs fly.

hectis
02-09-2006, 07:20 PM
a.m u exist i hear/read whut u say i seen ur pic u have deep k.w.u ur words are powerful ur like a teacher to me even if u don't now it

hectis
02-09-2006, 07:22 PM
pigs are shiped by air plans everyday so i guess pigs fly so god is real

Sexy Jasper
02-09-2006, 07:25 PM
Oh how clever of you!

God only exists when I see my Erika. No one else exists at that moment.

hectis
02-09-2006, 07:41 PM
So If U Never See Her Then Nothing Is Real Sigh Love Is Good But Love Can Kill U

100pr00f
02-09-2006, 07:45 PM
god exists only if u want him to exist
when i was a kid i kinda beleved as i did talk to him...not in a prair just talking..like talking to my self

right now...
i dont see it
is thier proof that mary didnt have sex.....its all on the book writer
thier is no proof of any thing
biblical or scintific (big bang)
only words by man

i seen this when i died for a min

i heard this


god hasnt done any thing but put us here he aint saving lives
god it self creats war

if god is real.. he is thi kid burning us like magnafine class to ants

i beleave we are all gods
we can make life we can take life we can cure life...to some extent
we can make the dinos return
we can make somthing out of nothing..........

thats what i think



i went to church a couple times...not worth it....its all singing flipping back and forth across pages..i was confused

what the hell is going on
lol

i aint throwing a god out the #1 creater...of man..
the facts are we just dont know

....
god does good yes..the fact u beleve in him real or not...it controls u ..on how u live ...u wont go out and just kill 100 peeps

me i just go on with life

i work to live
i live to .........

what do we live for
y
we work all are lives
we make good
in the end the good the bad
we all die


so the q...is what happens after death...we dont know...
we have to die to find out
but then its to late to ansewr the q...
so y think about it at all
?

hectis
02-09-2006, 07:50 PM
God Did Not Make War The Lust For Power And Money Did

100pr00f
02-09-2006, 07:56 PM
god did make war.....
holy war.....
back then
peeps didnt agree with a certion religion
so they try to wipe em out...
lets take jewdisem foe example the most resent
hitler didnt like their ways
..it wasnt about money or power
but father back
when peeps were on horses and throwing sticks from bows
money want nothing
alot of wars were based on territory or they didnt like the other kings

but thier were wars on witch god is better

100pr00f
02-09-2006, 08:04 PM
Jesus claimed that he spoke with the authority of God.

Because of this, he upset the religious authorities in Palestine and was handed over to the Roman authorities as a revolutionary.

He was tried for heresy, condemned and put to death by means of crucifixion.

god killed his own son

100pr00f
02-09-2006, 08:15 PM
the war on christianty...

when it first came as jesus talked to god
he was killd..

chritianty at the time of its groth was belived in falce gods
were if u were found to be a christian over another religion
u would be set to death

dif de la rev
02-09-2006, 08:21 PM
god exist is like asking since the art work of god is expressed through numbers denoted by symbols which become markers of sound for lanuage to wit words and letters and phrases and sentences and this i'm typing . . . god exist though for atheist god still exist just that they refuse to acknowledge that god plays a part more sublime than science can describe.

reason says god does though logic can claim no. they say god geometrizes -a word ?- uses a blue print from the unconscious where to be fully conscious of his existence had to go back to his subconscious where the past of existing as sole being to the future as controler was intermeshed like everywhere and nowhere.

i came with god i saw with god i conquered with god -- being in to this world as i live and as i be there cannot be a denial of god's being be in me.

LHX
02-09-2006, 08:56 PM
god created existence

and existed when it was create

thereby creating creation which previously did not exist prior to having existed when created

which creates the other aspect of creation existing or whether something existed in order to create

LORD NOSE
02-09-2006, 10:04 PM
are yall all playing with me ?

are yall for real ?

LHX
02-09-2006, 10:08 PM
its a long joke with a bad punchline

Ronin
02-10-2006, 06:45 AM
u cantr blame religion or god for wars, u blame the people that start them

i dont beleive in a god in the sence of religion, because i think organised religion is silly imo

its quite possible theres a higher force but religious doctrines have so much contradiction and elitism that i dont wish to follow them

plus they are written by men

100pr00f
02-10-2006, 07:47 AM
all religion is written by man

Prince Shafala
02-10-2006, 08:55 AM
Iam GOD so indeed he does

SuperWoman
02-10-2006, 08:57 AM
I think he does, the devil exists too.

IRAN
02-10-2006, 09:52 AM
Which God?

LORD NOSE
02-10-2006, 10:48 AM
Which God?

how many do you know of ?

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 10:50 AM
Many people here and in other places, use words to explain what god is. If this word means this than what does that word mean in relationship to it?

Words ain't got nuthin to do with nuthin, now how you like that mess?

Words are a creation of man. We created those words to describe what we see. What we see and we ourselves are what god created. So how can our words possibly express what god is? They can't. I'm a big fan of words, but they can't even lift the dust off the issue.

The thing is, is god is beyond explanation. This is why scientists spend they're entire brilliant lives trying to unhinge this door. This is why everyone who's lived before you has asked this question. It can't be answered. Not now, and at this rate, never. You can't gain on infinity.

The big bang happened. We evolved from single celled organisms, which in themselves are a wonder of nature, let alone what they evolve into. To really understand god you have to see it everywhere, in everything and everyone.
These theories "evolution, big bang, relativity" are only theories because we don't understand everything involved with them. When we do they become commonly understood facts. Like evolution, no matter what you say or think, or believe, it happened, and still happens.
This argument of whether or not god exists is silly. This argument of what god is exactly is even more ridiculous. If you go outside and breathe air and see objects made apparant by light, and touch things made up of matter. Than you'd understand the argument isn't argueing, it's nitpicking.
If you wanna understand it than go read some real science. Some Hawking, or Dawkins. Science is the study of everything. It's not secret knowledge. It's stare you in the face obvious. If you wanna know, stare back.

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 10:52 AM
Scientists are children who always ask why.

Vegan
02-10-2006, 11:52 AM
Man made "god" out of fear and ignorance" - Dead Prez

hectis
02-10-2006, 12:32 PM
The Devil Made Man Think He Made God Cuz He Knows They Are Easy To Fool And Trick

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 12:51 PM
I don't get the fool and trick part of that. But god is beyond what you or I can intelligently talk about. This personification stuff is troubling.

7EL7
02-10-2006, 01:02 PM
Scientists are children who always ask why.




Matthew 18:3 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&verse=3&version=31&context=verse)
And he said: "I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 18:2-4 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&verse=2&end_verse=4&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Matthew 18 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=18&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)



WHO IS THIS MANCHILD/SON OF MAN

100pr00f
02-10-2006, 01:20 PM
god ..there are meny gods

ima god

THE W
02-10-2006, 01:59 PM
scientists and man in general who dont believe in god have spent almost forever trying to fit an infinite god into their finite understanding and they cant do it. so their conclusion then is "god doesnt exist".

Vegan
02-10-2006, 02:06 PM
If "god" created everything, who created "god"?

Look, scientists may not have a definitive answer as to how the universe came into existence yet, but to attribute it to "a spook in the sky" is a cop out.

Modern religion is just an extension of ancient mythology. It is all unverifiable myth.

hectis
02-10-2006, 02:10 PM
No One Made God He Always Was And Always Will Be

THE W
02-10-2006, 02:12 PM
no one created god, he always existed.

who or what created the the situation for the big bang to occur? something had to have existed for the big bang to take place. do you believe that the universe always existed? if not, who or what created it? if so, then why is god always existing such a far fetched idea for you?

Vegan
02-10-2006, 02:12 PM
No One Made God He Always Was And Always Will Be

Can you quote any research which shows that besides religious doctrine?

Vegan
02-10-2006, 02:17 PM
no one created god, he always existed.

who created the the situation for the big bang to occur? something had to have existed for the big bang to take place. do you believe that the universe always existed? if not, who or what created it?

Using that logic, something must have exsited in order for "god" to exist then. You can't make it okay to use that logic in one sense, but not another.

Humans are getting to the point (and are at the point) in some cases where they can create life. I read a recent article where scientists were able to create a living cell from scratch that can reproduce itself. Where does that leave "god"?

hectis
02-10-2006, 02:18 PM
Can U Prove Me Wrong? No One On Earth Can Ever Tell Me There Is No God Even If I Never Would Have Read One Book I Know There Is A God And God Is Not A Spoke In The Sky He Is Everywere U Look I Know It Is Hard To Understand But Just Know That He Is

7EL7
02-10-2006, 02:20 PM
no one created god, he always existed.

who created the the situation for the big bang to occur? something had to have existed for the big bang to take place. do you believe that the universe always existed? if not, who or what created it? if so, then why is god always existing such a far fetched idea for you?



MABY THE UNIVERSE OR VERSES ALWAYS EXISTED AND NO ONE OR THING FLOATED AROUND NOTHINGNESS SAYING TO ITSELF

"I THINK I'LL CREATE A PLANET TODAY"

IF THERE IS A CREATOR OF EVERYLIFE THAT EXIST, WHAT GOOD IS IT NOW ?

DOES IT PUNISH US FOR THINKING ABOUT SEX ?

DOES THIS CREATOR OF EVERYLIFE PUNISH US FOR LYING ?

DO WE FLY AWAY PASS OUR SKY AND STARS TO GET TO THIS CREATOR WHEN WE DIE ?

WHAT ABOUT THE TALKING SNAKE THAT THIS CREATOR CREATED ?

WHERE IS IT ?

IS THERE TRUTH IN THE EXISTANCE OF A REPTILLIAN RACE OF WICKEDNESS WHO ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO PUT DOWN THE CHILDREN OF GOD ?

DID THEY LIE TO THE CHILDREN AND MAKE THEM BELIEVE THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE GOD ?

DID THEY BUILD A WORLD FOR THEMSELVES WHERE THEY CAN BE GOD AND GOD CAN BE THE DEVIL ?


WE USE TO WRITE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT


WHAT HAPPENED ?

7EL7
02-10-2006, 02:23 PM
Can U Prove Me Wrong? No One On Earth Can Ever Tell Me There Is No God Even If I Never Would Have Read One Book I Know There Is A God And God Is Not A Spoke In The Sky He Is Everywere U Look I Know It Is Hard To Understand But Just Know That He Is


I'M LOOKING AT MY COMPUTER SCREEN RIGHT NOW

I DON'T SEE HIM


AND IF THIS IS HIM THEN WHAT GOOD IS HE ?


HE ?

I DON'T SEE NO MAN ON MY COMPUTER SCREEN


EXPLAIN YOURSELF

WuKnowledge
02-10-2006, 02:24 PM
god doesnt exist but heaven does, its between your ears you just gotta find it.

THE W
02-10-2006, 02:25 PM
Using that logic, something must have exsited in order for "god" to exist then. You can't make it okay to use that logic in one sense, but not another.

Humans are getting to the point (and are at the point) in some cases where they can create life. I read a recent article where scientists were able to create a living cell from scratch that can reproduce itself. Where does that leave "god"?
you didnt answer the question. do you believe the universe always existed or not?

so what if scientists can make living organisms. so can god. human being can have children that can reproduce too. and they can construct buildings. it just means that god has given humans the intelligence to accomplish certain things.

IRAN
02-10-2006, 02:26 PM
how many do you know of ?

Depends on the religion.

7EL7
02-10-2006, 02:29 PM
you didnt answer the question. do you believe the universe always existed or not?

so what if scientists can make living organisms. so can god. human being can have children that can reproduce too. and they can construct buildings. it just means that god has given humans the intelligence to accomplish certain things.


WHAT CAN GOD DO THAT MAN CAN'T ?

Vegan
02-10-2006, 02:30 PM
you didnt answer the question. do you believe the universe always existed or not?



At this point, that is not something I can answer using factual proof. Still, I will not attribute it to a "spook in the sky", either.

THE W
02-10-2006, 02:31 PM
MABY THE UNIVERSE OR VERSES ALWAYS EXISTED AND NO ONE OR THING FLOATED AROUND NOTHINGNESS SAYING TO ITSELF

"I THINK I'LL CREATE A PLANET TODAY"

IF THERE IS A CREATOR OF EVERYLIFE THAT EXIST, WHAT GOOD IS IT NOW ?

DOES IT PUNISH US FOR THINKING ABOUT SEX ?

DOES THIS CREATOR OF EVERYLIFE PUNISH US FOR LYING ?

DO WE FLY AWAY PASS OUR SKY AND STARS TO GET TO THIS CREATOR WHEN WE DIE ?

WHAT ABOUT THE TALKING SNAKE THAT THIS CREATOR CREATED ?

WHERE IS IT ?

IS THERE TRUTH IN THE EXISTANCE OF A REPTILLIAN RACE OF WICKEDNESS WHO ARE CONSTANTLY TRYING TO PUT DOWN THE CHILDREN OF GOD ?

DID THEY LIE TO THE CHILDREN AND MAKE THEM BELIEVE THAT THEY THEMSELVES ARE GOD ?

DID THEY BUILD A WORLD FOR THEMSELVES WHERE THEY CAN BE GOD AND GOD CAN BE THE DEVIL ?


WE USE TO WRITE FROM RIGHT TO LEFT


WHAT HAPPENED ?
you can fully believe the universe always existed but think ludacris that god always existed? that makes sense :/

those talkin reptiles are not the snakes that god punished for decieving adam and eve and then h punished adam and eve for disobeying him when he said dont eat from the tree of life. they disobeyed and they were punished for it.

no he does not punish us for thinking about sex but will if you lust in your heart after someones spouse or if you fornicate.

hectis
02-10-2006, 02:33 PM
I'M LOOKING AT MY COMPUTER SCREEN RIGHT NOW

I DON'T SEE HIM


AND IF THIS IS HIM THEN WHAT GOOD IS HE ?


HE ?

I DON'T SEE NO MAN ON MY COMPUTER SCREEN


EXPLAIN YOURSELF

I MENT MENTALY I FEEL GOD IS ALWAYS WITH ME JUST CUZ U DO NOT SEE HIM DOSE NOT MEAN HE IS NOT THERE U THINK HE IS NOT AROUND? BLESSED IS THE ONES WHO BELIFE AND DON'T SEE HIM I BET A LOT MORE PEOPLE WOULD THINK GOD WAS REAL IF HE WAS SOME KIND OF IDOL MADE OF GOLD AND SILVER

hectis
02-10-2006, 02:35 PM
WHAT CAN GOD DO THAT MAN CAN'T ?


HA HA HA HA HA FUNNY PEOPLE THINKING THEY CAN TEST GOD

THE W
02-10-2006, 02:35 PM
WHAT CAN GOD DO THAT MAN CAN'T ?
can man make something from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?

the reason people dont believe god can do anything they cant is because they again try to fit god into their own understanding. if man cant do it then its impossible. man is limited by his own knowledge.

Vegan
02-10-2006, 02:42 PM
man is limited by his own knowledge.

You're right about that, and that is why men attribute what they cannot understand to a creator.

hectis
02-10-2006, 02:47 PM
I don't get the fool and trick part of that. But god is beyond what you or I can intelligently talk about. This personification stuff is troubling.


THE DEVIL IS SMART HE TRICKED SOME OF THE ANGELS INTO JOINING HIM HE TRICKED MUCH OF MANKIND INTO THINKING GOD WAS NOT REAL HE MAKES MANKIND LOOK LIKE A FOOL BY MAKEING THEM THINK THEY CAN CREAT AYTHING IN THE END TIMES PEOPLE WILL SEE THE POWER OF GOD AND ANY THING MADE BY HUMANS WILL FAIL THEM FOOLS WHO TRY TO TEST THE HOLYMOSTHIGH

THE W
02-10-2006, 02:47 PM
You're right about that, and that is why men attribute what they cannot understand to a creator.
or to the big bang or a single cell organism which are both THEORIES.

WARPATH
02-10-2006, 02:48 PM
Four brothers stood by a beach. A black borhter, a red brother, a yellow brother, and white brother. They all seen a shiny rock in the water. The black,white, and yellow brother begin fighting each other for the rock. The creator took the three brothers and sperated them to different corners of the earth, you will always feel home sick and someday you'll make it back home. Then he asked the red brother, why didn't you fight for the rock? The red brother replied, "look father, there are millions of rocks why would I fight over just one?" So the creator replied ok you can stay here.

It is pointless to argue over somthing we aren't meant to understand. If a comet came and wiped us out, or we killed each other off, god would just rebuild us again.

7EL7
02-10-2006, 03:21 PM
Who Told Yall That There Is A God And Devil ?


Is It Something You Decided To Believe One Day ?


Where Were You When You First Heard The Word God ?

100pr00f
02-10-2006, 03:25 PM
can man make something from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?


yes..

i can make sound by snapping my fingers togeather
...
do u have proof god created somthing out of nothing
or u just know

no point in fighting ove the q...

thier is no answer to t
god or not

its all man made thearies
spoken by men

u think god looks like us
if he created the stars befor us what did he look like ..was
it just a man floating in black nowere and had a idea on doing something

maybe god is in hell and was sent to a black hole so he created this so he had something to do

and maybe thier are other just like him in other black holes doing the same

lol

god real ..no answer
when did god become a word...did some one see
guy floating in air and said god

who created the WORD god?

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 03:47 PM
or to the big bang or a single cell organism which are both THEORIES.

A "theory" is the concensus of many scientists' research over a number of years. Once a "theory" has been proven and is considered bullet proof, it graduates to being a fact.
Be careful how you down-grade the word "theory". It's a big word. Especially when we're talking about something as completely impossible, and totally hair-brained as defining god.

One well known "theory", is the "theory" of gravity.
Sorry, the devil made me write that.

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 03:49 PM
To hell with me and my evil gravity.

THE W
02-10-2006, 03:52 PM
can man make something from ABSOLUTELY NOTHING?


yes..

i can make sound by snapping my fingers togeather
...
do u have proof god created somthing out of nothing
or u just know

no point in fighting ove the q...

thier is no answer to t
god or not

its all man made thearies
spoken by men

u think god looks like us
if he created the stars befor us what did he look like ..was
it just a man floating in black nowere and had a idea on doing something

maybe god is in hell and was sent to a black hole so he created this so he had something to do

and maybe thier are other just like him in other black holes doing the same

lol

god real ..no answer
when did god become a word...did some one see
guy floating in air and said god

who created the WORD god?
great, now make light appear by snapping your fingers and make the moon and sun and stars appear.

but god cant do that because man doesnt understand how it is possible with his limited understanding. therefore it impossible for god too.

THE W
02-10-2006, 04:05 PM
has big bang and single cell organism been proven or not. yeah yeah i know neither has god buts thats the point.

i had a holy spirit encounter one night at bible study where i just flipped out praising god and so did everyone else in our group. this is from a guy who doesnt get excited like that at all. it wasnt something that i forced it was something that just happened. and person who never lifted his hands in praise of god was all of sudden dancing all over the place and going nuts at church services. that happens when the holy spirit is flowing through you.

so why do i believe in god? well because i experienced god.

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 04:21 PM
Well,

For the rest of us, who have not experienced god, we have to rely on what we can see, what we can prove. Or I do anyway.

Man created all of the words that man uses to describe anything. The words have nothing to do with god at all.

And, I'll say that god is real. I'm a hardcore prove it to me type, and I can still see that this is all just way too big and intricate to say that man created god to feel better about himself, or the other way round. I just don't presume to lable that, god. All I know is that I don't know. And neither do you. In my mind anyway.

LORD NOSE
02-10-2006, 04:23 PM
has big bang and single cell organism been proven or not. yeah yeah i know neither has god buts thats the point.

i had a holy spirit encounter one night at bible study where i just flipped out praising god and so did everyone else in our group. this is from a guy who doesnt get excited like that at all. it wasnt something that i forced it was something that just happened. and person who never lifted his hands in praise of god was all of sudden dancing all over the place and going nuts at church services. that happens when the holy spirit is flowing through you.

so why do i believe in god? well because i experienced god.


lmao dam ...........

SlightlySlightedFan
02-10-2006, 04:27 PM
Like I said, Evolution and Big Bang are theories, so people add on to it everyday with new findings. So the answer is yes and no.

This also has nothing to do with the god question. We have no idea what god is let alone how he/she/it paints and creates us and the universe.

Science is not an assault on faith, and people shouldn't think it is. Science is just the study of what we can see. Not of what we can't see.
The cool part about science is that scientists and researchers can explain something as simple to us as a rock. And they can spend hours doing it, and make it exciting. It's really amazing stuff.

THE W
02-10-2006, 04:43 PM
no science is not an assault on faith, its just used for it.

and yes, if you have never experienced god you gotta go for what you know.

people who follow jesus are people who have experienced significant changes in their because of it. you cant agrue someone into following jesus cuz truthfully there is not logical scientific proof of god's existance. people share their god experiences with others. thats what witnessing is. not that im trying to convert anyone here im just pointing why so many people are following a god that cant be proven scientifically.

people figure that if they're experiencing something miraculous within themselves by believing in jesus, then maybe the stuff in the bible is truth.

dif de la rev
02-10-2006, 10:52 PM
asking people to postulate a theory on a presumption and/or first cause is quite like asking if fish can taste water while sleeping?

yeah but to what extent do we exist to god in order for god to exist in omni land about relation to us?

Aqueous Moon
02-11-2006, 12:56 AM
We are fish...like little sperms seeking to impregnate the womb of the human mind with genes or the genesis

like the begining of time we find the write spot at the right hour and universally power the human family through and by our infinity.

dif de la rev
02-11-2006, 05:54 AM
so what you're saying is that the electric currents in my head that span the metaphor of lighting striking though never repeating whether fission or fusion in respects to the growing or dying at that moment we are gods and at the same time mortal. for in that vacum of space where in the contained experiment of thoughts and material sensations (feelings emotions physical world) that has an out break outside the body we cause a mutation that has it's own cure in the family like cousins lost at first second re find themselves after miss gatherings of evolution and machines letting loose their ghost have us play host and guest to ourselves ?

LORD NOSE
10-02-2008, 04:26 AM
no science is not an assault on faith, its just used for it.

and yes, if you have never experienced god you gotta go for what you know.

people who follow jesus are people who have experienced significant changes in their because of it. you cant agrue someone into following jesus cuz truthfully there is not logical scientific proof of god's existance. people share their god experiences with others. thats what witnessing is. not that im trying to convert anyone here im just pointing why so many people are following a god that cant be proven scientifically.

people figure that if they're experiencing something miraculous within themselves by believing in jesus, then maybe the stuff in the bible is truth.


Good discussion

what does god think about "The Black Market of Porn" (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45234)

LORD NOSE
10-02-2008, 04:33 AM
people share their god experiences with others. thats what witnessing is. not that im trying to convert anyone here im just pointing why so many people are following a god that cant be proven scientifically.

people figure that if they're experiencing something miraculous within themselves by believing in jesus, then maybe the stuff in the bible is truth.


many peoples from many different religions have gatherings where they give their testimony - a muslim can make many changes in his/her life for the good and bear witness to others who put into practice the same disciplines that got them their results - people who worship satan can also get "the good feeling"

its all in the mind -

Mic Tyson
10-02-2008, 11:23 AM
its all in the mind -


thats what i be tryin to tell people in my family who go crazy over religion. when u shakin and shit in church its not because the devil is gettin out of you but because its in your mind. i can't believe some people think that shit is real. but it seems like people like to stay ignorant and comfortable in what they believe in and don't want to learn the truth sometimes.

just the other day i was talkin to my cousin about religion and he was like " well my dad and his dad any my whole family is christian so im just gonna be christian my whole life". i didn't want to tell him how fuckin stupid that sounded but i just don' get how cats be so close minded sometimes.

i used to be a christian myself, i was all into it and shit too. but then i started reading about other religions and just doin a lot of research and i learned to never take somethin at face value. always look at all the different possibilities and sides of a story. there's more to one side of every story. that helped me realize how stupid some religions are and i can't really even believe i believed in that stuff at one points.

but yea, i don't know why i was ramblin on just now

LORD NOSE
10-02-2008, 11:42 AM
1.some people go along with whats established and never question what they were told

2. some people come to a point in their life when they start to question whats established

3. some people find answers to these questions while studying self and the establishment

4. some chose to fight against whats established


they are all different levels - those who never experienced 2,3,or 4 will try to fight those who are on 2,3, and 4

Mic Tyson
10-02-2008, 11:51 AM
yup

Black Man
10-02-2008, 12:39 PM
thats what i be tryin to tell people in my family who go crazy over religion. when u shakin and shit in church its not because the devil is gettin out of you but because its in your mind. i can't believe some people think that shit is real. but it seems like people like to stay ignorant and comfortable in what they believe in and don't want to learn the truth sometimes.

just the other day i was talkin to my cousin about religion and he was like " well my dad and his dad any my whole family is christian so im just gonna be christian my whole life". i didn't want to tell him how fuckin stupid that sounded but i just don' get how cats be so close minded sometimes.

i used to be a christian myself, i was all into it and shit too. but then i started reading about other religions and just doin a lot of research and i learned to never take somethin at face value. always look at all the different possibilities and sides of a story. there's more to one side of every story. that helped me realize how stupid some religions are and i can't really even believe i believed in that stuff at one points.

but yea, i don't know why i was ramblin on just now

For a second there I thought you were talking about yourself.

Black Man
10-02-2008, 12:49 PM
1.some people go along with whats established and never question what they were told

WHY WOULD THEY? THEY WERE MADE BLIND DEAF AND DUMB WHEN THEY WERE BABIES(24:36).

2. some people come to a point in their life when they start to question whats established

3. some people find answers to these questions while studying self and the establishment

4. some chose to fight against whats established


they are all different levels - those who never experienced 2,3,or 4 will try to fight those who are on 2,3, and 4
.

Mic Tyson
10-02-2008, 02:05 PM
For a second there I thought you were talking about yourself.

i don't know how the hell you would think i was talkin about myself, but whatever u say

zooruka
10-03-2008, 03:20 AM
wade digital you made some good points|)

Jin10304
10-03-2008, 11:23 AM
I read a recent article where scientists were able to create a living cell from scratch that can reproduce itself. Where does that leave "god"?

Eh Vegan you got that article or know the name of it? Sounds interesting as fuck

Face of the Golden Falcon
10-03-2008, 05:48 PM
I read a recent article where scientists were able to create a living cell from scratch that can reproduce itself. Where does that leave "god"?



From scratch? So you are saying that they made a living cell from nothing? Did it just appear? What magic word did they use?

LORD NOSE
04-02-2009, 08:15 PM
anything that exist has a location

Thrilla24x7
04-02-2009, 08:41 PM
anything that exist has a location

do your thoughts have location?

they exist, but they don't manifest themselves physically

LORD NOSE
04-02-2009, 09:30 PM
do your thoughts have location?

they exist, but they don't manifest themselves physically

thoughts do manifest themselves physically

Thrilla24x7
04-02-2009, 09:55 PM
thoughts do manifest themselves physically

chemicals in your brain along with electricity and other physical properties are responsible for the foundation of the thoughts, but i mean the actual 'thought' that you are thinking of has no physical property.

although the energy produced to be capable of having a thought is physical.

LORD NOSE
04-02-2009, 10:32 PM
chemicals in your brain along with electricity and other physical properties are responsible for the foundation of the thoughts, but i mean the actual 'thought' that you are thinking of has no physical property.

although the energy produced to be capable of having a thought is physical.


with that said - what is a thought made out of ?

the transfer of thought is a very physical thing


thought itself - what is it ?

Visionz
04-02-2009, 11:35 PM
with that said - what is a thought made out of ?

the transfer of thought is a very physical thing


thought itself - what is it ?
having thought a thought, what happens to it?

do thoughts die or do they hang around?

If they hang around what's the residue of 6 billion people thinking a million different things become?

LORD NOSE
04-02-2009, 11:40 PM
having thought a thought, what happens to it?

do thoughts die or do they hang around?

If they hang around what's the residue of 6 billion people thinking a million different things become?



lol - you're hurting my head

Visionz
04-02-2009, 11:43 PM
lol - you're hurting my head
hahaha, maybe but I feel they're legitimate questions

LORD NOSE
04-03-2009, 02:14 AM
having thought a thought, what happens to it?

i don't know

can you have a thought without inwardly talking ?


do thoughts die or do they hang around?

i don't know
can light and sound be destroyed ?

If they hang around what's the residue of 6 billion people thinking a million different things become?

it becomes the foundation of the future

Visionz
04-03-2009, 02:28 AM
i don't know

can you have a thought without inwardly talking ?



you can have a reaction
(Jason jumps out from outta nowhere)
"DAMN!!!!

but any real thought without having an inward conversation, I wouldn't think its possible, right now my mouth is silents but it feels like I'm talking out loud.






i don't know
can light and sound be destroyed ?

maybe sound and artificial lights but REAL light??? I'm not so sure on that, it seems like it goes forever.

Something else that's crazy, there's particles that are passing through you right now and not even touching you same as a mosquito flying through a chain link fence.




it becomes the foundation of the future

now take that foundation and imagine it to be the same kinda force that's inhabited on every planet that can sustain life like earth does and imagine the foundation to not be a foundation at all but rather a brick that's a part of something unimaginably massive. (what you'd have was the collective conscience of the entire Universe)
Wouldn't whatever that was be something amazing?

Keep in mind that under syncronistic theory thoughts do not follow the law of standard physics and that distance appears largely irrelevant.

LORD NOSE
04-03-2009, 02:34 AM
i don't understand

even an idea is physical

Visionz
04-03-2009, 02:44 AM
i don't understand

even an idea is physical

as I see it, physical properties does not necessarily mean thoughts follow the properties of physics (atleast not as our current level of understanding would have it)


Scientific discoveries that happen at virtually the same time but happen independent of each other and half way across the globe.

You think of someone and as soon as you do they're calling you on the phone.


None of it is concretly proven but there's theory as to there being something up with those moments that are so coincedental that they seem to break the boundaries of probability.

google synchronisity (sp?) to read more about that particular aspect.

LORD NOSE
04-03-2009, 12:06 PM
good build


i say that thoughts are alive

maybe even the purest form of life

maybe they don't die

if its not physical, what else can it possibly be ?

Thrilla24x7
04-03-2009, 12:18 PM
if its not physical, what else can it possibly be ?

thats the question,thats is the question of wheter God exist

if its not physical, how can it be defined. Everything we know has a definition, the definition is a product of any given matter and a given time.

How do you define something without any boundries or parameters?

T.D.
04-03-2009, 12:39 PM
Yes. First I thought you where that yourself. But he's gonna help me or whoever.

LORD NOSE
04-04-2009, 09:28 PM
How do you define something without any boundries or parameters?

better question is why would any one think that something like that even exist ?


what doesn't have boundaries and parameters ?

Mumm Ra
04-05-2009, 05:40 AM
consciousness
will

food for thought
04-05-2009, 05:57 AM
better question is why would any one think that something like that even exist ?


what doesn't have boundaries and parameters ?

exactly

Mr. Muhammad
04-06-2009, 05:07 PM
Wow...didn't expect to see MY POST here...

http://reubenmuhammad.blogspot.com/2006/11/does-god-exist.html

...but hey...I'm glad somebody thought it was "discussion worthy"... (smile)

Salaam.

RM

LORD NOSE
04-07-2009, 02:35 AM
having thought a thought, what happens to it?

it manifest itself as action

do thoughts die or do they hang around?

when anything dies, it breaks apart and everything that it was made up of, goes back to where it came from - what is thought made of ?
i say light and sound is the foundation - but yes theres more to it - thought is manifesting itself in these words we are typing....

If they hang around what's the residue of 6 billion people thinking a million different things become?

possibly a hurricane - ,erupting volcano,rain, hail, snow and earthquakes - group thought ?

people - in general - are moving up to a higher vibration - some faster than others - thats inevitable




but yes - a supreme being does exist









Wow...didn't expect to see MY POST here...

http://reubenmuhammad.blogspot.com/2006/11/does-god-exist.html

...but hey...I'm glad somebody thought it was "discussion worthy"... (smile)

Salaam.

RM




Salaam - and please add on further

LORD NOSE
04-07-2009, 02:48 AM
Originally Posted by SUNNY WINTERS http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1537387#post1537387)
better question is why would any one think that something like that even exist ?


what doesn't have boundaries and parameters ?



consciousness
will



deep - what you mean though ?

Mumm Ra
04-07-2009, 05:55 AM
consciousness in it's purest form is simply being conscious of being conscious
no objects or thoughts therein
not even the thought "I am conscious"
one without another....

the potential to will is infinite - what wills you to will? It originates from an immaterial source.

Mumm Ra
04-07-2009, 06:57 AM
positive vs negative
yin vs yang
objective vs subjective
matter/energy vs consciousness/will
material vs immaterial....


when we know something but it's "on the tip of our tongue" and we cannot manifest it, where did it go?
it is said we are born with infinite knowledge, the capacity to solve any problem - it just takes our self to in-form it. what do you call that infinite source of knowledge with no form?

Chiara
04-07-2009, 07:36 AM
http://www.doesgodexist.com/

Mumm Ra
04-07-2009, 07:37 AM
when we know something but it's "on the tip of our tongue" and we cannot manifest it, where did it go?

and why is it that only when we empty our thoughts is that manifestation most successful?
this shows that thoughts enter our sphere of awareness independently to our will.
how do you define what caused that thought to form itself within you?
OOH PRAISE THE LAWD I FOUND JESUS!! goodnight!

LORD NOSE
04-07-2009, 10:58 AM
the potential to will is infinite - what wills you to will? It originates from an immaterial source.

this immaterial source exist - right ?

if its not material, what is it ?

LORD NOSE
04-07-2009, 11:04 AM
and why is it that only when we empty our thoughts is that manifestation most successful?

when you say that they are successful, what do you mean ?


this shows that thoughts enter our sphere of awareness independently to our will.


yes - light and sound enters our sphere independently to our will




how do you define what caused that thought to form itself within you?
OOH PRAISE THE LAWD I FOUND JESUS!! goodnight!


what happens when someone makes you think - its simpler than we make it

Thrilla24x7
04-07-2009, 12:31 PM
better question is why would any one think that something like that even exist ?


what doesn't have boundaries and parameters ?

God.

Paramters are objects that operate under a function of time, And time doesnt exist for things that dont have location.

Mumm Ra
04-07-2009, 07:41 PM
this immaterial source exist - right ?

if its not material, what is it ?
good question
all the laws governing the universe?
god?

when you say that they are successful, what do you mean ?

one seems to have that thought they were searching for come back to them when they stop trying to think so hard about it


yes - light and sound enters our sphere independently to our will
certainly
is something molding that light and sound into a thought independent to us tho? in the cases that we do not turn it into a thought ourselves.


what happens when someone makes you think - its simpler than we make itI'm not sure, another good question...
Any ideas? I'll have to think about it :i

TheBoarzHeadBoy
04-08-2009, 07:53 PM
You can't have a consciousness without a body. That's fantastic.

I have no problem with unknown types of energies being manipulated by aliens or such and called gods, but you can't just have energy. Psychic powers? sure with a pinch of salt. Omniscient inter dimensional entities? why not. But energy in its lonesome going around fucking things up? Thoughts impregnating mary?

NOOOOOO

LORD NOSE
04-08-2009, 08:03 PM
if there was some form of energy floating around messing things up, wouldn't itstill be considered physical ?

Mumm Ra
04-10-2009, 06:08 PM
what happens when someone makes you think - its simpler than we make it
can you expand on this a little more?

makes you think in what context...verbal communication? a gesture? over the internet?
does the same thing happen in each instance?
and then again I'm not certain another person has the innate ability to make me think.
although it doesn't seem unreasonable to me to think something is going on (being transferred?) between the two persons in any case
:?

Longbongcilvaringz
04-10-2009, 06:18 PM
Does God Exist (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=286993#post286993)

No.

Urban_Journalz
04-10-2009, 09:54 PM
He exists.

He's always existed and when all of us, believers and non-believers are dust and bones, when the Earth is old and dead, He'll still be around.

Yes, it's true, He created war, plague, famine, evil, etc. All things came from Him. What a lot of people forget, either by choice or just flat stupidity, is that these things were created to test us. To see who among us is best in conduct.

It's about balance. Never be peaceful to the point that you take everyone's shit all the time. Never be so ready to kill that no one ever wants to be around you. Know when it's time to be patient and forgive and know when it's time NOT to. Let's not forget, Moses (peace be upon him) had to lullaby an Egyptian in his early days.

God's existence doesn't depend on wether we believe He exists or not. In no way is He dependent upon His Own creation. Another thing that people choose to forget quite frequently, is that, even though He is Most Merciful and patient with mankind, we need Him, He doesn't need us. One of my favorite verses in The Qur'an reads, "Has man not seen that we have created him from a drop of seed? Yet lo! He is an open opponent!" It's like God is saying, "You little motherfuckers have a LOT of nerve!"

If one chooses to ignore the soul's own testimony, that's one thing, but anytime you ignore the world around you, the cycle of seasons, the orbits of the heavenly bodies, then you're waiting for a sign so obvious, so devastating, so clear that a blind man can see it and so loud that a deaf man can hear it. You're waiting for the worst sign of them all.

That's peace though. Know why? Because I'm waiting for the very same sign. So wait. I'll wait with you. Then we'll see who was right and who was wrong.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-11-2009, 03:54 PM
having thought a thought, what happens to it?

do thoughts die or do they hang around?

If they hang around what's the residue of 6 billion people thinking a million different things become?

I guess your thoughts are committed to memory to a certain extent.

It's tough for me to think about this high.

I'm trying hard to remember some first year Psychology, and can't.

better question is why would any one think that something like that even exist ?


what doesn't have boundaries and parameters ?

Maybe an even better question would be.

What does have boundaries and parameters?

And why?


That's peace though. Know why? Because I'm waiting for the very same sign. So wait. I'll wait with you. Then we'll see who was right and who was wrong.

This is a line used by a lot of religious people.

But really, it doesn't matter "who was right or wrong".

People who believe in religion have followed an illogical thought process to arrive at an illogical and purely intuitive conclusion.

If they applied this to all aspects of their lives, they would most likely suffer greatly.

Whether or not they are proved right (a notion which i have trouble even typing due to it's preposterous nature) they have still applied a flawed form of logic to only one aspect of their thought process.

Which is, weird.


My thoughts on the thread - the onus is on anyone who believes in god to explain why and prove that god does exist.

I have no concept of a god.

There is no reason to. Not one.

This requires no explanation.

Believing in god, however, does i feel.

Urban_Journalz
04-11-2009, 06:31 PM
^^^That line is recited in The Qur'an many times, so whoever uses it, is indeed speaking Truth. Since you have no concept of God, you have no idea how people who fully live the lessons of their religion would live. You say they would, "probably suffer...." either because you've never observed diligent practitioners, you've never read The Scriptures, or, most likely, BOTH. You're on the outside looking in and trying to tell the people inside what the temperature is.

Quite common for someone of your position.

It matters entirely who's right and who's wrong, just the same way it does in this laughing stock of a justice system, or in a lie detector test. The fact that you, or anyone else doesn't believe it makes all of no difference. Again, we need Him, He doesn't need us.

If you have no concept of God, then that sounds like a personal problem of great magnitude, but of little surprise, considering the current state of the world we live in and the spiritual weakness of most people in it. Still, as they say, seek and ye shall find. So clearly, you haven't sought and that's why you lack this conception. Either that, or you just choose not to have it, which is the impression I'm getting.

Either or, it doesn't matter. It doesn't change anything.

Mumm Ra
04-11-2009, 07:12 PM
People who believe in religion have followed an illogical thought process to arrive at an illogical and purely intuitive conclusion.

some religions, not all.
for the record, logical does not always = correct.

If they applied this to all aspects of their lives, they would most likely suffer greatly.

atheists don't suffer greatly? I don't see them as a whole living any happier than religious folk, and I know both.
I apply my "religion" or understanding of god to every aspect of my life. It is incorporated into every thought, emotion, and action. And I can tell you straight up I haven't so much as felt anger, or have been stressed out over anything in over a year. Not a single time. And I need very little to keep me happy.
Does it sound like I suffer greatly to you?

spiggity_ace
04-11-2009, 08:49 PM
God exists, whether god is a man, force, soul or wutever, get ur own interpretation of god and believe in it this explanation i typed sucks, if i could talk to u guys it would be better understood, anyways i believe god exists and i believe in god.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-12-2009, 05:07 AM
^^^That line is recited in The Qur'an many times, so whoever uses it, is indeed speaking Truth. Since you have no concept of God, you have no idea how people who fully live the lessons of their religion would live. You say they would, "probably suffer...." either because you've never observed diligent practitioners, you've never read The Scriptures, or, most likely, BOTH. You're on the outside looking in and trying to tell the people inside what the temperature is.

Quite common for someone of your position.

It matters entirely who's right and who's wrong, just the same way it does in this laughing stock of a justice system, or in a lie detector test. The fact that you, or anyone else doesn't believe it makes all of no difference. Again, we need Him, He doesn't need us.

If you have no concept of God, then that sounds like a personal problem of great magnitude, but of little surprise, considering the current state of the world we live in and the spiritual weakness of most people in it. Still, as they say, seek and ye shall find. So clearly, you haven't sought and that's why you lack this conception. Either that, or you just choose not to have it, which is the impression I'm getting.

Either or, it doesn't matter. It doesn't change anything.

some religions, not all.
for the record, logical does not always = correct.

atheists don't suffer greatly? I don't see them as a whole living any happier than religious folk, and I know both.
I apply my "religion" or understanding of god to every aspect of my life. It is incorporated into every thought, emotion, and action. And I can tell you straight up I haven't so much as felt anger, or have been stressed out over anything in over a year. Not a single time. And I need very little to keep me happy.
Does it sound like I suffer greatly to you?

You both greatly misunderstood that sentence.

If you applied such flawed logic (ie. believing in something with no logical or factual basis, and acting upon this) it would most like play havoc with your lives).

Explain to me how this is not true?

Logic does not always = correct.

But it the only reasonable way to approach anything.

Present a credible alternative...

A concept of god is purely manufactured.

Implying that i am somehow in the wrong for not contemplating such a manufactured concept is ludicrous.

You believe in something with no basis. No factual or logical basis.

And i am somehow in the wrong because i have no concept of this?

Explain what you mean.

Religion and the following of it is spiritual weakness in its essence.

Mumm Ra
04-12-2009, 05:41 PM
if you define religion by what you see most of the major religions practicing - believing in a mystery god in the sky, jesus is coming, ect, then yes I would agree with you.

correction: the concept that YOU know of god is purely manufactured.
this is where logical not equaling correct comes into play - when you use logic based on a false pretense, the answer will not always come out correct.
the false pretense being you only knowing one concept of god, and thus claiming god concepts are illogical and wrong.

personally I don't believe in anything with no factual or logical basis.

Urban_Journalz
04-13-2009, 12:54 AM
You both greatly misunderstood that sentence.

If you applied such flawed logic (ie. believing in something with no logical or factual basis, and acting upon this) it would most like play havoc with your lives).

Explain to me how this is not true?

Logic does not always = correct.

But it the only reasonable way to approach anything.

Present a credible alternative...

A concept of god is purely manufactured.

Implying that i am somehow in the wrong for not contemplating such a manufactured concept is ludicrous.

You believe in something with no basis. No factual or logical basis.

And i am somehow in the wrong because i have no concept of this?

Explain what you mean.

Religion and the following of it is spiritual weakness in its essence.


The only flawed logic, is when someone clearly takes the side of what thier five senses can pick up as a determining factor between truth and falsehood. Meanwhile, even in using such faculties, they still misuse what they have, therefor misinterpreting what they experience.

Logic always equals truth. The two can't be seperated. What you mean, is that truth doesn't always = what people want to hear. Such has always been the case, which is exactly why all of The Prophets met thier first opposition from thier own nations and family members.

Your idea of, "logic" and "facts" is based on and around science. Worse, the weaker forms of science, because anyone who is familiar with Sacred Geometry will surely know that science and mathematics in itself are further proofs of His existence.

Your problem seems to be, that because God cannot be viewed under a microscope, then He must not be there. You know nothing of religion, aside from what you see on the news and in papers. If you did, you would know that in order for the spirit to be whole and at full capacity, it needs to always keep in touch with it's source. The same way bears need hibernation.

The concept of God goes well beyond concept, it's a fact. Therefore, it can't be flawed, except in the mind of someone who is too engrossed in worldly ways, that the idea of following a set order of rules disgusts them. Only the lawless deny the Law and it's Maker. Decorate your arguement as you may with all of the clever wordplay you will, not everyone is fooled by it.

You say this, "concept" is manufactured, yet you bring no proof. You want people to take your opinion as fact. I brought forth Sacred Geometry as a testimony to God's manifestation in one of our most well known (and worshipped) sciences. What do you have?

Actually, following your whims and desires, going after worldly things, material possessions, money, other people is spiritual weakness in it's truest essence. This leads to depression, and worse in some cases.

Actually, you're not wrong for not having this knowledge, you're wrong for choosing not to have it. But please, don't make the fatal mistake of thinking that I actually care about you or your condition, all I'm saying is that your arguement is very weak.

Lil mD
04-15-2009, 02:28 PM
I do believe in God but i surch something spacial from him ! I have a question all people here are muslim ?

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2009, 08:58 AM
No. As far as I know, I'm the only Muslim that has responded to this particular thread. I could be wrong.

My First Timbs
04-17-2009, 12:59 PM
The only flawed logic, is when someone clearly takes the side of what thier five senses can pick up as a determining factor between truth and falsehood. Meanwhile, even in using such faculties, they still misuse what they have, therefor misinterpreting what they experience.

Logic always equals truth. The two can't be seperated. What you mean, is that truth doesn't always = what people want to hear. Such has always been the case, which is exactly why all of The Prophets met thier first opposition from thier own nations and family members.

Your idea of, "logic" and "facts" is based on and around science. Worse, the weaker forms of science, because anyone who is familiar with Sacred Geometry will surely know that science and mathematics in itself are further proofs of His existence.

Your problem seems to be, that because God cannot be viewed under a microscope, then He must not be there. You know nothing of religion, aside from what you see on the news and in papers. If you did, you would know that in order for the spirit to be whole and at full capacity, it needs to always keep in touch with it's source. The same way bears need hibernation.

The concept of God goes well beyond concept, it's a fact. Therefore, it can't be flawed, except in the mind of someone who is too engrossed in worldly ways, that the idea of following a set order of rules disgusts them. Only the lawless deny the Law and it's Maker. Decorate your arguement as you may with all of the clever wordplay you will, not everyone is fooled by it.

You say this, "concept" is manufactured, yet you bring no proof. You want people to take your opinion as fact. I brought forth Sacred Geometry as a testimony to God's manifestation in one of our most well known (and worshipped) sciences. What do you have?

Actually, following your whims and desires, going after worldly things, material possessions, money, other people is spiritual weakness in it's truest essence. This leads to depression, and worse in some cases.

Actually, you're not wrong for not having this knowledge, you're wrong for choosing not to have it. But please, don't make the fatal mistake of thinking that I actually care about you or your condition, all I'm saying is that your arguement is very weak.

the open question is this:

from a rational standpoint, how would one ever distinguish between a God who allegedly exists, but cannot be "detected" via human reasoning or logic, versus the counter argument that there is no god in the first place?

what would be the definitive marker/reference point by which to objectively gauge an answer to the above question? (by objctive, im talking about not something that requires any prerequisite emotional stance).

This issue all boils down to the concept of falsifiability. A rational stance is one in which there exists concrete falsifiability. Meaning that it has a definite and noticeable way in which to be proven false.

For example, if someone holds a stance that their is no justifiable reason to believe in the concept of a "god", they can argue that their stance is rational simply because it has the definite potential to be proven false in an observable way! (for example, demonstrated evidence supporting a supernatural realm of some sort that cant be explained through normal rational thought would falsify a stance against belief in gods.).

However, I have yet to hear any falsifiability for the stance for the belief in a god or supernatural realm.

any takers?

Mumm Ra
04-17-2009, 04:35 PM
from a rational standpoint, how would one ever distinguish between a God who allegedly exists, but cannot be "detected" via human reasoning or logic, versus the counter argument that there is no god in the first place?


well I can't speak against the type of god you're talking about here
only the one that can be detected by reasoning and logic

check out some of Ra Un Nefer's books....Metu Neter, 11 Laws of Maat
he breaks down god very logically
I wish I had the means to break it down in a short summary in this thread for everybody but there are too many aspects for me to know how to do that....

peace

Wu-Tang Forum Internet Poster
04-17-2009, 04:46 PM
well I can't speak against the type of god you're talking about here
only the one that can be detected by reasoning and logic

check out some of Ra Un Nefer's books....Metu Neter, 11 Laws of Maat
he breaks down god very logically
I wish I had the means to break it down in a short summary in this thread for everybody but there are too many aspects for me to know how to do that....

peace

What "type" of god is it logical to believe in?

I do not know how I feel about god, but I think believing in god requires some degree of blind faith. I also do not know if blind faith is necessarily a bad thing in all situations, but it is illogical.

Mumm Ra
04-17-2009, 05:41 PM
the type that exists as all things, everywhere
I could give it any name but that wouldn't make any difference
it's been touched on in small amounts in countless threads
like I said if someone is truly unbiased, and honestly seeks an alternative to what they think god is or isn't, pick up some books and take a look - as much as I hate to "cop out" like that. It's far too much for me to summarize all the logical connections in this thread.
I recently picked up a scanner maybe I'll scan some shit when I got time.

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2009, 06:25 PM
the open question is this:

from a rational standpoint, how would one ever distinguish between a God who allegedly exists, but cannot be "detected" via human reasoning or logic, versus the counter argument that there is no god in the first place?

what would be the definitive marker/reference point by which to objectively gauge an answer to the above question? (by objctive, im talking about not something that requires any prerequisite emotional stance).

This issue all boils down to the concept of falsifiability. A rational stance is one in which there exists concrete falsifiability. Meaning that it has a definite and noticeable way in which to be proven false.

For example, if someone holds a stance that their is no justifiable reason to believe in the concept of a "god", they can argue that their stance is rational simply because it has the definite potential to be proven false in an observable way! (for example, demonstrated evidence supporting a supernatural realm of some sort that cant be explained through normal rational thought would falsify a stance against belief in gods.).

However, I have yet to hear any falsifiability for the stance for the belief in a god or supernatural realm.

any takers?

Again, the fact that God can't be put under a microscope and observed doesn't prove anything to the effect of Him not existing.

In truth, the definitive marker/reference point is the soul itself. The soul came directly from God, and is our connection between Heaven and Earth.

Everyone knows this, but the fact is, people would rather acknowledge the soul's capabilities when it comes to things like meditation, higher consciousness and out-of-body eperiences, but when it comes to using that very same faculty to identify, feel and experience The Source of all of the above-mentioned experiences, they convieniently fall short. Most. Not all.

People can say, "what goes around comes around" and "You reap what you sow", with ultimate belief, but when the concept of Heaven and Hell comes along, then they need proof. When the analogy they presented before is an exact testimony to this one faculty of Universal Law.

That's the whole problem that most people have though. Law. In thier folly, they believe that this Law is designed to keep them down, away from, "Fun", when in actual fact, it's there to bring them into harmony and equlibrium with all other forms of life. Seen and unseen.

Of course, reading this, for most of them, is something to the effect of fantasy. Impossibility, but, seeing as they haven't even tried to live this lesson for themselves, they have no place to speak on it.

Again, if you want scientific proof, look up Sacred Geometry. For most of you though, that won't be enough. If every miracle in the Heavens and the Earth were shown to you in never-ending line, you'd attribute it to magic, or a falsifying of the eye. You simply don't believe and that's obviously your purpose in living.

Just know that if and when you cite things like, "The Big Bang Theory", know, that that is precisely why it's called a theory. No one knows if there was even a sound made when the Universe came into being. It could have been dead-dog quiet for all we know.

Honestly, the fact that the orbits of Pluto and Uranus intersect, and the fact that they have never collided, is proof or order and control. The ancients weren't wrong when they attributed the male identity to the Sun and the female to the Moon, for indeed, they are living things just like the rest of us. The appreciation and understanding of this though, isn't for everyone. It's a lot like the first Jedi Mind Tricks album, "Psycho-Social..." or Company Flow's, "Funcrusher Plus", it's not going to reach everyone, and even among the ones that it reaches, there will be some who won't be able to appreciate it.

I'm one of the ones that believes. You won't follow my way, and I won't follow yours. You to your way, and me to mine.

My First Timbs
04-20-2009, 09:56 AM
Again, the fact that God can't be put under a microscope and observed doesn't prove anything to the effect of Him not existing.


no one is stating that because god cant be put under a microscope = god doesnt exist.

Teh argument is that because god cant be objectively discerned or detected, there is no rational reason to believe in the concept.. Whether or not a god exists is a totally different argument compared to whether or not it is rational to hold the belief.


when you cite things like, "The Big Bang Theory", know, that that is precisely why it's called a theory.



Please look up and understand the definition of a scientific theory before statements like this are posted...... do you hold this mindset toward the theory of gravity, theory of electromegnetism or germ/bacterial theory of medicine? i doubt it..


No one knows if there was even a sound made when the Universe came into being. It could have been dead-dog quiet for all we know.


Please look up and understand the Big Bang Theory before statements like this are posted....Big Bang theory has absolutely nothing to do with an explosion or sound during the development of our universe. (in order for an explosion to occur, there must already be existing space for something to explode out into... in order for sound to occur there must already be existing space and air to vibrate)... .. the evidence for the Big Bang Theory is overwhelming just as the theory that disease is caused by microbial life (the germ THEORY of medicine) is overwhelming...

Senator C. Palantine
04-20-2009, 10:00 AM
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/Chaosdefiler/SenatorTop.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb53/Chaosdefiler/SenatorBottom3.jpg

Mumm Ra
04-20-2009, 05:50 PM
Teh argument is that because god cant be objectively discerned or detected, there is no rational reason to believe in the concept.. Whether or not a god exists is a totally different argument compared to whether or not it is rational to hold the belief.

seeing as you are a fan of looking up and understanding things before speaking about them...
look up and understand the Metu Neter. It will give a clear, rational, & logical viewpoint of god.

peace

Mumm Ra
04-20-2009, 05:58 PM
the evidence for the Big Bang Theory is overwhelming just as the theory that disease is caused by microbial life (the germ THEORY of medicine) is overwhelming...
I think that would make a good thread...
as far as I know the theory doesn't offer any explanation to the earliest instance of expansion, but describes what happens since that instance.

Visionz
04-20-2009, 06:40 PM
no one is stating that because god cant be put under a microscope = god doesnt exist.

Teh argument is that because god cant be objectively discerned or detected, there is no rational reason to believe in the concept.. Whether or not a god exists is a totally different argument compared to whether or not it is rational to hold the belief.
This would depend on your definition of what God is wouldn't it? If I say God is the collective binding force that holds absolutely everything intact then wouldn't that be something that has atleast a potential qualitative value?

Couldn't you make a valid argument that carbon is most likely an atom that has landed on other earth-like planets somewhere in other star systems and formed some kind of life form? We know absolutely a planet like ours can develop 1 out of 8 (or 9) times.
Carbon pods still fall into our atmosphere today which suggest that where life can happen it will happen. Mathematical odds suggest we aren't alone.

The time variance I think would make for an infinite number of possibilities but the phsyics of time and space are constant its just the knowledge to utilize what's there that is enhanced as time goes on. theoretically anyways.

Rame
04-20-2009, 06:46 PM
I read that only 15% of the atheists in America dare to say they are.

That's some weak ass shit.

I'm not a believer.

Urban_Journalz
04-20-2009, 08:08 PM
no one is stating that because god cant be put under a microscope = god doesnt exist.

Teh argument is that because god cant be objectively discerned or detected, there is no rational reason to believe in the concept.. Whether or not a god exists is a totally different argument compared to whether or not it is rational to hold the belief.



Please look up and understand the definition of a scientific theory before statements like this are posted...... do you hold this mindset toward the theory of gravity, theory of electromegnetism or germ/bacterial theory of medicine? i doubt it..



Please look up and understand the Big Bang Theory before statements like this are posted....Big Bang theory has absolutely nothing to do with an explosion or sound during the development of our universe. (in order for an explosion to occur, there must already be existing space for something to explode out into... in order for sound to occur there must already be existing space and air to vibrate)... .. the evidence for the Big Bang Theory is overwhelming just as the theory that disease is caused by microbial life (the germ THEORY of medicine) is overwhelming...

Actually, a lot of people are making that assumption, regardless as to wether they actually say these things or not. Most of the time it's what's not said out loud that's actually the most important and what the person really wants to say.

I don't care how you try to define the arguement, at the end of all the hair-splitting, the bottom line is that most of you would have to see Him face to face, or hear His voice. What's really funny, is that nothing has changed but the date. This arguement of yours is nothing new. The questions asked, the objections, etc. You saying, "He can't be objectively discerned or detected is the same thing as saying, "I can't hear Him and I can't see Him." If you really knew what was going on, you'd recognize your very own existence as proof. However, most people in your position try to divide things like theology and science, forgetting that one eventually confirms the other.

The theories of electromagnetism and gravity aren't theories. They've been proven. They're called LAWS now. So you were right in doubting it.

It's called The Big Bang Theory for a reason and I've heared numerous scientists testify to the sound effect that they, "believe" occured. There's eveidence pointing in the direction that all matter in the Universe is related and also that most stars are born out of explosions. That doesn't carry over to planets and moons, which is why these scientists are so confused about every other planet in our solar system except this one. Hell, they even guess about Earth a lot of the time as to it's true method of creation.

If you payed as much attention to how the Heavenly Bodies functioned, the harmony and order embedded therein, as you did to the mechanical aspect of it, you just might learn something.

Everyone has nicely side-stepped the Sacred Geometry comment as well. Typical.

LORD NOSE
04-20-2009, 08:53 PM
they do what they accuse others of doing

Longbongcilvaringz
04-21-2009, 12:52 PM
I am glad My First Timbs is posting again.

But i'll say once again, to people like Urban Journalz, the onus of proof is on you.

Just because something cannot be disproved, this does not guarantee it's validity.

Everyone else here is explaining there approach to the concept of a "god".

You and a couple of others are simply saying "God exist" and "prove me wrong".

As if that makes you correct.

Scientific 'theories' are not complete.

They do not purport to be.

However, they are concepts which are reached through a clearly logical path based on evidence.

A theory is explained.

Explain your theory of the concept of 'God'.

Urban_Journalz
04-23-2009, 01:50 PM
I am glad My First Timbs is posting again.

But i'll say once again, to people like Urban Journalz, the onus of proof is on you.

Just because something cannot be disproved, this does not guarantee it's validity.

Everyone else here is explaining there approach to the concept of a "god".

You and a couple of others are simply saying "God exist" and "prove me wrong".

As if that makes you correct.

Scientific 'theories' are not complete.

They do not purport to be.

However, they are concepts which are reached through a clearly logical path based on evidence.

A theory is explained.

Explain your theory of the concept of 'God'.


Actually, I'm not saying prove me wrong, because you can't prove me wrong. It's just that simple. I'm saying that if you're going to disagree, bring something a little more solid than, "That can't be proven." As I recall, I've presented more examples than anyone else thusfar, and I've also noticed that no one, but no one can bring themselves to look at Sacred Geometry, since Holy Scripture makes most people cringe.

The concept of God is no theory, that's what you people who worship science don't understand. Truth itself superceeds all so-called logic. Especially the logic that man trys to rule by with his limited faculties of understanding and contemplation. Yet, even IN those limited faculties, the truth can be found. If one chooses to look for it.

You work from the brain, and if that suits you, that's fine.

I work from the soul and the mind. Both of which are spaceless and timeless and that's why my arguement remains solid and unapproachable.

I'm bored with making you all look like morons though. Go ahead and respond to this with an attempt at reverse psychology and sattire, make yourself feel better, but um.....it's only for the approval of those who think like you, because I won't know about it. :W

Mumm Ra
04-23-2009, 04:40 PM
^ yessir
personally I think they want us to prove there is a mystery being in the sky like they've been taught all these years. Timbs even defined god as something that cannot be detected through reasoning and logic. They don't and can't know better to accept any view of god besides that.
I also think they really don't want god to exist. They can look at Sacred Geometry, molecular entanglement, the Metu Neter....STYLE even had a good thread based on showing god through science not long ago. Do they look up these things? I doubt it.
If they looked up those three things they would see you cannot come to the conclusion of god without reasoning and logic.
Even given all that though, none of them will know god through it.
It is a perception and an experience. Science and words and numbers are not going to give you the experience of knowing god just as there is no amount of reading a virgin could do to know the experience of sex.
Like Urban Journalz said, god has already been proven.

Mr. Muhammad
04-23-2009, 04:48 PM
Salaam...

If a person tells me that God "can't be understood", then that person is admitting that he or she is not qualified to tell me about God.

Simple.

God is as Real as I am.

RM

LORD NOSE
04-23-2009, 05:40 PM
Salaam...

If a person tells me that God "can't be understood", then that person is admitting that he or she is not qualified to tell me about God.

Simple.

God is as Real as I am.

RM


Troof

Echo this

Longbongcilvaringz
04-24-2009, 08:19 AM
You guys look ridiculous in this context.

Mumm Ra
04-24-2009, 08:55 AM
Blue pies cook conspicuous in the projects

Mumm Ra
04-27-2009, 11:15 PM
a question to all:
how does living matter form from nonliving matter?
lets assume the big bang happened - not questioning how it started or where the matter/energy came from -
and everything started in dead space.....what is the correct combination of dead matter that equals consciousness/ life?

..or has there always been a form of consciousness within ALL things for ALL time?

Robert
04-28-2009, 04:54 AM
Actually, I'm not saying prove me wrong, because you can't prove me wrong. It's just that simple. I'm saying that if you're going to disagree, bring something a little more solid than, "That can't be proven."

It can't, neither can it be disproven. It is the nature of the concept.

As I recall, I've presented more examples than anyone else thusfar, and I've also noticed that no one, but no one can bring themselves to look at Sacred Geometry, since Holy Scripture makes most people cringe.

How about you show us something?

The concept of God is no theory, that's what you people who worship science don't understand.

We know it's not a theory. It's an absolute that has no proof. People don't "worship" science.

Truth itself superceeds all so-called logic. Especially the logic that man trys to rule by with his limited faculties of understanding and contemplation.

What a convenient way to side step logic and rational thought.

Yet, even IN those limited faculties, the truth can be found. If one chooses to look for it.

Who defines what the truth is? What is the truth we can look for?

I'm bored with making you all look like morons though.

Bahahahahahahaha!


^^Doesn't understand anything about science.

Robert
04-28-2009, 04:55 AM
a question to all:
how does living matter form from nonliving matter?
lets assume the big bang happened - not questioning how it started or where the matter/energy came from -
and everything started in dead space.....what is the correct combination of dead matter that equals consciousness/ life?

..or has there always been a form of consciousness within ALL things for ALL time?

What happens if those questions can't be answered? Does this prove god?

Why does the concept of there being nothing scare you so much?

TSA
04-28-2009, 05:01 AM
I dont believe in god in the judeo christian concept
or the everyone concept i guess

cause those definitions of God can't possibly be anywhere near plausible.

They give God human characteristics and opinions
which is think is fucking stupid.

If God existed in the context they are trying to describe God in, then there's no way God would have opinions on right and wrong, or get mad and shit cause all the things we do as specified for survival as humans, and God doesn't need to survive and isn't human.


we are a creation of circumstance, and God's circumstance is no where near our. Why would God get mad at something? Does he have a lack of dopemine? plus if he made everything then what the fuck is your problem dude? your just making shit to get pissed off at it?
all telling ppl how to live..why?

thats why i dont believe in God.
but if you define God as 'all that is' then i have no reason not to believe in God cause all this is exists, but i dont think it needs to be prayed to or worshipped cause that's wacky.

Visionz
04-28-2009, 05:23 AM
It is your understanding as an individual within the framework of the ALL that leads to prayer. There is the physical and that which you can't see nor easily detect. This doesn't mean it isn't out there, afterall, ALL is ALL. Anyways, engergy, vibrations, insight into the ALL, prayer helps with all these things.

God doesn't need you to pray, you need you to pray (speaking to no one in particular----this isn't a holier-than-thou moment)

TSA
04-28-2009, 05:30 AM
i like that you need you to pray, makes sense
i do believe it's important to detach yourself from yourself, or your ego, and acknowledge or relish in your oneness with the universe and world around you outside of the superficial.


i normally spend my sundays in total budda mode, i just get in the car, go somewhere random and chill

Mumm Ra
04-28-2009, 06:13 AM
What happens if those questions can't be answered? Does this prove god?

Why does the concept of there being nothing scare you so much?
no those questions in themselves do not prove god, but it leads up to it the same way all of my and others previous posts do.
I already stated that I cannot prove god the same way I can't prove the experience of sex to a virgin - I already know god so your concept doesn't scare me - but I am trying my best to open up some doors.

but do you have any ideas about what you just quoted of me?
why does the concept of god scare you so much?

Mumm Ra
04-28-2009, 07:00 AM
sorry for the length but I find this quite interesting:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page1god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page1god.jpg)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page2god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page2god.jpg)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page04god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page04god.jpg)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page05god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page05god.jpg)

Robert
04-28-2009, 07:14 AM
But do you have any ideas about what you just quoted of me?

Sure, but I was interested to know the logic behind asking those questions. To me, that is more important then the answers because I know you think you already have them.

why does the concept of god scare you so much?

It doesn't. The concept of there being nothing is far more confronting.


.

Mumm Ra
04-28-2009, 07:23 AM
But do you have any ideas about what you just quoted of me?

Sure, but I was interested to know the logic behind asking those questions. To me, that is more important then the answers because I know you think you already have them.

I know I can't make you understand where I'm coming from, like I already said, but I'm doing my best to open some doors. Trust me I know VERY WELL the difference between belief and knowledge - and I have knowledge of god. But I'm not entirely sure you know the "definition" of god the same as I see it. Read the pages I posted and let me know what you think...

why does the concept of god scare you so much?

It doesn't. The concept of there being nothing is far more confronting.how do you figure?
the concept of having immutable laws verses nothing to live by seems more confronting to me.
I don't know what your concept of god is - but I do not think that I am going to "heaven" simply by believing in god, nor do I believe in Jesus -
nor am I relying on anything other than myself to save me.
...like I said, just what concept of god do you think I "believe in" in the first place before you are qualified to tell me I have no reason to know it?

Robert
04-28-2009, 07:50 AM
sorry for the length but I find this quite interesting:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page1god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page1god.jpg)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page2god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page2god.jpg)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page04god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page04god.jpg)
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/th_page05god.jpg (http://s52.photobucket.com/albums/g26/osirus16/?action=view&current=page05god.jpg)

I love how the author tries to put the onus on science to prove that there isn't an intelligent force behind life.

He uses rudimentary chemistry and suggests that the mathematical arrangements of atoms and DNA prove they were designed intelligently without actually explaining how this occurred or why this must be the case.

The problem with the article for me is the guy talks in absolutes.

"If this happens then this is the only explaination"

I'm afraid that isn't evidence, it's a logical fallacy.

Robert
04-28-2009, 07:56 AM
the concept of having immutable laws verses nothing to live by seems more confronting to me.

Why do "immutable" laws have to be the result of an intelligent force?

I don't know what your concept of god is - but I do not think that I am going to "heaven" simply by believing in god, nor do I believe in Jesus -
nor am I relying on anything other than myself to save me.

To me your idea of god is irrelevant in some ways. It's your application of that idea that I'm interested in.

...like I said, just what concept of god do you think I "believe in" in the first place before you are qualified to tell me I have no reason to know it?

I'm certain I never said "you have no reason to know it". I questioned you about evolution and your right brain/left brian theory.


.

Mumm Ra
04-28-2009, 08:17 AM
the concept of having immutable laws verses nothing to live by seems more confronting to me.

Why do "immutable" laws have to be the result of an intelligent force?
it's not a result - it is the intelligent force
the same way gravity is an immutable law there are immutable spiritual laws for man

I don't know what your concept of god is - but I do not think that I am going to "heaven" simply by believing in god, nor do I believe in Jesus -
nor am I relying on anything other than myself to save me.

To me your idea of god is irrelevant in some ways. It's your application of that idea that I'm interested in.
no - my application IS my idea.
you can't have one without the other.
...if you ignore the law of gravity you are liable to jump out a window and kill yourself - the law of gravity will be there regardless of what you want to believe

Robert
04-28-2009, 08:22 AM
it's not a result - it is the intelligent force
the same way gravity is an immutable law there are immutable spiritual laws for man

Ok, why is it the intelligent force?

no - my application IS my idea.
you can't have one without the other.

I see.


.

Mumm Ra
04-28-2009, 04:30 PM
it's not a result - it is the intelligent force
the same way gravity is an immutable law there are immutable spiritual laws for man

Ok, why is it the intelligent force?

I'd have to go back to the article you read that you dismissed as not showing intelligence -
I personally view perfect law and order in all corners of the universe as something to be considered intelligent.
That there even ARE physical and spiritual laws that cannot be broken, or in man's case, would lead to misfortune 100% of the time - I would not call random or chaotic, but rather intelligent.
How the physical matter of a fetus knows how to grow to adulthood I would call intelligent, or how the trillions of individual cells work together as a fully functioning conscious human.
I guess it depends on your idea of the word intelligent which you've shown differs from mine.

Robert
04-29-2009, 04:12 AM
I'd have to go back to the article you read that you dismissed as not showing intelligence -
I personally view perfect law and order in all corners of the universe as something to be considered intelligent.

Fair enough. My view is that just because there is currently no explaination for what you call "perfect law" it does not mean it is "intelligent".

That there even ARE physical and spiritual laws that cannot be broken, or in man's case, would lead to misfortune 100% of the time - I would not call random or chaotic, but rather intelligent.
How the physical matter of a fetus knows how to grow to adulthood I would call intelligent, or how the trillions of individual cells work together as a fully functioning conscious human.
I guess it depends on your idea of the word intelligent which you've shown differs from mine.

Good call. I understand your view point a whole lot better now.


.

WARPATH
05-01-2009, 07:16 PM
Does God Exist?

Simple answer, yes.

In my travels across the globe I have seen the contours of his creation. Felt his breath on my skin, his hand on my back, and heard his voice in my heart. I felt his power resonate through my body for an entire year, and transform me into a better person. This is not some mystery to be solved, because we can not solve it. If you seek evidence you only need to listen, observe, feel, smell, and touch. Only then will you feel his power when he is near. His presence in your existence will be undeniable.

Simple science is not enough, neither is faith. It takes a combination to comprehend the complexity of creation. It takes sacrifice for another human being to understand why children suffer. It takes discipline when others have none. You can not find God in a book, only comfort or more questions. You can not understand him through someone else's understanding. You can only look for guidance when you have none.

I shook hands with ghosts, sang with spirits, and danced with the thunder. I fear no man or earthly creature, I only fear what will happen if they fear me. I never claim to know more than another in these matters, because it does not matter. These discussions are meaningless if you can not find God in your own life, you only serve to prove your ignorance of what is surrounding you every day. I do not look for god in the news or in catasrophe. I don't seek god in the actions of evil men, or in the in action of good people. God reveals himself to me in his own accord and that is enough for me.