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LHX
03-25-2006, 01:48 PM
this is inspired by the thread about money


it is an illusion for any man to 'own' anything on this planet

technically
just by virtue of being born

you should have access to productive land on this planet earth


not on any communist shit
but
it would be natural for you to wake up
stroll out to a garden
and take what you need to eat


but yet
we have this illusion of property



it is easier for people without property to see the problems with property
but
those with property are likely going to cling on to it until they are dead


what will it take for you to have access to your property?

this planet is willing to provide for you
why are you being blocked from receiving what is being provided for you?


how can a person with property be brought to a point of understanding where they would give up their property for nothing?

whitey
03-25-2006, 01:53 PM
maybe you should get on some communist shit. true communism. its a lot like what you said even though you wanted to not call it by that.

whats your beef with communism?

LHX
03-25-2006, 01:57 PM
maybe you should get on some communist shit. true communism. its a lot like what you said even though you wanted to not call it by that.

whats your beef with communism?

the only beef i have with communism is that it still involves a person depending on other people

whitey
03-25-2006, 01:58 PM
in a sense. i agree with what you were saying. i think people were ment to live like native americans used to. off the earth. but even in the sense you had to depend on others.

i think in a world of 6/7 billion its almost impossible not to.

LHX
03-25-2006, 02:00 PM
in a sense. i agree with what you were saying. i think people were ment to live like native americans used to. off the earth. but even in the sense you had to depend on others.

i think in a world of 6/7 billion its almost impossible not to.

true

we cant help but get in each others way on this planet

Aqua Luna
03-25-2006, 02:16 PM
This reminds of the Boots Riley interview, he made some real good comments about this kinda stuff. Propz to whoever posted it...


http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15578
PA: On Bill Mahrerís Politically Incorrect you announced you were a Communist. What does that mean for you? What role should Communists play right now?

BR: Well like I said on the show, I think the people should have power. So what does power mean? It means having control of our surroundings and resources. And who are the people? Whoís going to collectively control it? How you decide that. It has to be a democratic process. There are profits we create in the labor process in all these institutions. The people should have democratic control over those resources. We should be able to decide whatís done with those profits that are being made by these governments and corporations that we work for. These are corporations that depend not only on the buildings that we build, but the products that are coming out of those buildings. We need to democratically control those profits we create and thatís called socialism or communism. People can call it what they want, so long as thatís the structure.

But Anyway,

"how can a person with property be brought to a point of understanding where they would give up their property for nothing?"

You would have to prove to them that they won't die without it. Property equals security to most people....

I think if private property could be abolished then we could have a more communal society.

whitey
03-25-2006, 02:30 PM
communism/karl marx gets a bad name in this countries for numerous bunk reasons. he makes a lot of good points. anyone intersted in this sorta stuff should pick up some of his work.

hidden ninja
03-25-2006, 02:49 PM
the only beef i have with communism is that it still involves a person depending on other peoplewhat's wrong with a community working together for the better good of that community? certainly everyone's main objective would be to take care of themselves; but if you can do that, why not use your abilities/wealth (and by wealth, I mean any item of which you have an abundance) to help others? The way I see it, a community would be like a life form of it's own, comprised of individual people who can be lumped together because of a dependance on eachother. Any one member of that community must think not only how their actions will affect them personally, but also how it will affect their community. You would all depend upon eachother equally.

brown_dogg
03-25-2006, 04:24 PM
"how can a person with property be brought to a point of understanding where they would give up their property for nothing?"

You would have to prove to them that they won't die without it. Property equals security to most people....

I think if private property could be abolished then we could have a more communal society.

to elaborate on that:

you must remember that not everyone in this word has good intentions throughout life. if we didn't own our property what would stop someone from leaving a turd on your lawn, or taking food from your fridge. in a way, property is used to enforce laws to keep people in line.

Aqua Luna
03-25-2006, 09:05 PM
True ^

And to elaborate a lil further...

The privatization of property is what is soo harmful to society as a whole.

When an exclusive set of people or even one person owns something that I need to survive, then that causes my life to be at the whim of their demands.

This is one of the major things wrong with capitolism.

THE W
03-25-2006, 09:52 PM
to elaborate on that:

you must remember that not everyone in this word has good intentions throughout life. if we didn't own our property what would stop someone from leaving a turd on your lawn, or taking food from your fridge. in a way, property is used to enforce laws to keep people in line.
if you didnt own it, it wouldnt be yours to regulate.

THE W
03-25-2006, 10:10 PM
what will it take for you to have access to your property?

nothing(im speaking in the should be sense). there isnt anything bad about private property except that everyone cant have it freely.

this planet is willing to provide for you
why are you being blocked from receiving what is being provided for you?

people who take up a piece of property as their own want to make a profit off of it so they let people have it for a price.

how can a person with property be brought to a point of understanding where they would give up their property for nothing?

people have to sell things for money because if they dont then they wont be able to pay for their own living expenses. the problem again is the currency trade system which about control.



.........

LHX
03-25-2006, 10:12 PM
what's wrong with a community working together for the better good of that community? certainly everyone's main objective would be to take care of themselves; but if you can do that, why not use your abilities/wealth (and by wealth, I mean any item of which you have an abundance) to help others? The way I see it, a community would be like a life form of it's own, comprised of individual people who can be lumped together because of a dependance on eachother. Any one member of that community must think not only how their actions will affect them personally, but also how it will affect their community. You would all depend upon eachother equally.

this planet is one big garden

there is no need for 'communities' as we have come to understand them

LHX
03-25-2006, 10:14 PM
True ^

And to elaborate a lil further...

The privatization of property is what is soo harmful to society as a whole.

When an exclusive set of people or even one person owns something that I need to survive, then that causes my life to be at the whim of their demands.

This is one of the major things wrong with capitolism.

which is why everybody who owns property is going to be in trouble when more of the lower class comes under so much pressure that they begin hating life and not fearing death

you are at the whim of their demands as long as they can strike that fear in you

THE W
03-25-2006, 10:15 PM
this planet is one big garden

there is no need for 'communities' as we have come to understand them
if you have every single skill to build and maintain your property and yourself then no you dont need it.

LHX
03-25-2006, 10:19 PM
if you have every single skill to go to sleep and wake up
then you dont need nuthin


there were no fences in eden

THE W
03-25-2006, 10:29 PM
there werent but the divine garden of eden aint what it used to be before adam and eve fucked up. we got bad wheather, famine, disease. even when it was all gravy adam still had to work the land.

you can certainly simplify your needs and live in caves and go back to hunting and gathering. i personally dont want to be that primitive.

actually, we're hunting and gathering right now.

LHX
03-25-2006, 10:35 PM
there werent but the divine garden of eden aint what it used to be before adam and eve fucked up. we got bad wheather, famine, disease. even when it was all gravy adam still had to work the land.

you can certainly simplify your needs and live in caves and go back to hunting and gathering. i personally dont want to be that primitive.

i dig what youre saying

but
from a certain perspective
it seems pretty damn sophisticated to be able to find contentment on this planet


for me personally - the further i go
the less desire i have for any type of complexity



bad weather
isnt that what some people are?


i love working the land

LHX
03-25-2006, 10:37 PM
actually, we're hunting and gathering right now.

true

Aqua Luna
03-25-2006, 10:54 PM
which is why everybody who owns property is going to be in trouble when more of the lower class comes under so much pressure that they begin hating life and not fearing death

you are at the whim of their demands as long as they can strike that fear in you

Ain't this some truth.

However, a certain amount of fear is necessary when there's the chance that you could get exterminated.

Case in point - Native American Indians

Society attributes every brave and courageuos charasteristic to them, although their population was seriously depleted.

brown_dogg
03-25-2006, 10:56 PM
if you didnt own it, it wouldnt be yours to regulate.

if you didn't own a house, but you lived in it, would you feel safe in it?
actually how about this: you're living in your own house right now. so would you feel safe going to sleep with the door wide open?

brown_dogg
03-25-2006, 10:58 PM
actually, we're hunting and gathering right now.

can you explain this to me? i can't grasp it.

LHX
03-25-2006, 11:01 PM
Ain't this some truth.

However, a certain amount of fear is necessary when there's the chance that you could get exterminated.

Case in point - Native American Indians

Society attributes every brave and courageuos charasteristic to them, although their population was seriously depleted.

seriously

the scenario is altered dramatically depending on how you look at death


some people firmly understand that they become stronger when somebody kills them

LHX
03-25-2006, 11:03 PM
if you didn't own a house, but you lived in it, would you feel safe in it?
actually how about this: you're living in your own house right now. so would you feel safe going to sleep with the door wide open?

Y - E - S


if somebody wants to open a door
the will open a door

if somebody wants to get at you
they will get at you


what is the difference between getting shot in the face
and getting hit by a tornado?

none


leave your door open tonight
and watch how you wake up tomorrow

THE W
03-25-2006, 11:03 PM
if you didn't own a house, but you lived in it, would you feel safe in it?
actually how about this: you're living in your own house right now. so would you feel safe going to sleep with the door wide open?
i felt pretty safe in my apartment.

brown_dogg
03-25-2006, 11:06 PM
but that's cuz you "own" it. and by owning people know it's yours, and not theirs. they know that you can use the law against them if they try to get into your house. but if you didn't own your apartment and you had no door, would you still feel as safe?

THE W
03-25-2006, 11:06 PM
can you explain this to me? i can't grasp it.
you think the meat, veggies, and some of the clothes you wear fall out of the sky and into your grocery store?

brown_dogg
03-25-2006, 11:08 PM
you think the meat, veggies, and some of the clothes you wear fall out of the sky and into your grocery store?

ohhhhh true.. but i wouldn't necessarily describe myself as a hunter-gatherer. "hunting" implies possible failure. i'm a shopper-gatherer.

Aqua Luna
03-25-2006, 11:09 PM
lol @ shopper-gatherer

THE W
03-25-2006, 11:10 PM
but that's cuz you "own" it. and by owning people know it's yours, and not theirs. they know that you can use the law against them if they try to get into your house. but if you didn't own your apartment and you had no door, would you still feel as safe?
maybe not, but does that have to do with people paying for property?

THE W
03-25-2006, 11:12 PM
ohhhhh true.. but i wouldn't necessarily describe myself as a hunter-gatherer. "hunting" implies possible failure. i'm a shopper-gatherer.
and thats because someone is doing the "hunting" for you.

brown_dogg
03-25-2006, 11:14 PM
maybe not, but does that have to do with people paying for property?

if society wasn't about paying for property, then how would we be doing it?

THE W
03-25-2006, 11:24 PM
we go get a piece of property and build a house with a door, and even throw in a security system.

property doesnt need to be bought, it just needs to be determined.

galt john galt
03-25-2006, 11:30 PM
property is an extension of one's person in the concrete reality that is made in the abstract.

property denotes possession. not always ownership.

the attached value of such possession denotes said poses power over individual.

if we did not pay for possessions the world would be where people of liked minds convened and plotted how to better their lives as they knew how. possessions are the tangible and intangible. ideas as well as that light bulb. we are talking about paying for the idea that brought the possessions or the products themselves. people would give over their intellectual acumen skills and capabilities to knowledge to the group and would be expendid towards the group one for all all for one. your brain would serve the rest as their bodies would serve your mind.

whitey
03-25-2006, 11:33 PM
which is why everybody who owns property is going to be in trouble when more of the lower class comes under so much pressure that they begin hating life and not fearing death

you are at the whim of their demands as long as they can strike that fear in you


that would be the prolitariet breaking free from the false consiousness that they/we are in. and there goes the revolution. either violently, or by ballet box. says marx.

LHX
03-25-2006, 11:34 PM
nothing belongs to anybody

thieves prove that


intellectual property is a bigger hoax than the mystery god

LHX
03-25-2006, 11:36 PM
that would be the prolitariet breaking free from the false consiousness that they/we are in. and there goes the revolution. either violently, or by ballet box. says marx.

what would a slave master do if all his slaves burned themselves like that famous picture of the monk?

at a certain point
it stops being a social revolution
and becomes simple evolution


our minds are evolving

no violence
no ballot box

THE W
03-25-2006, 11:38 PM
nothing belongs to anybody

thieves prove that


i dont think they prove you dont own something. they prove that the possesion of what you own isnt gauranteed.

moths.

LHX
03-25-2006, 11:42 PM
i dont think they prove you dont own something. they prove that the possesion of what you own isnt gauranteed.

moths.

true

whitey
03-26-2006, 12:00 AM
what would a slave master do if all his slaves burned themselves like that famous picture of the monk?

at a certain point
it stops being a social revolution
and becomes simple evolution


our minds are evolving

no violence
no ballot box


prolly go buy more slaves. you find me slaves that are willing to burn themselves readily like that and ill jump on your ship.

i mean ya theres that picture of that one monk, but i dont see a mass exoduses of people stocking up on carosine and matches.

LHX
03-26-2006, 09:23 AM
prolly go buy more slaves. you find me slaves that are willing to burn themselves readily like that and ill jump on your ship.

i mean ya theres that picture of that one monk, but i dont see a mass exoduses of people stocking up on carosine and matches.

keep putting pressure on people with no chance of a way out
and watch what happens

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 12:27 PM
Whoa...as soon as I read that ^ I thought of that movie Saw.

I just watched it a couple of days ago.

When those people were under pressure with no way out -
they cut off their own limbs and tore off their own flesh
and killed each other.

It was horrible.

LHX
03-26-2006, 12:35 PM
Whoa...as soon as I read that ^ I thought of that movie Saw.

I just watched it a couple of days ago.

When those people were under pressure with no way out -
they cut off their own limbs and tore off their own flesh
and killed each other.

It was horrible.

thats exactly what i mean

people chained up facing death will chew their arms off

animals do the same thing


why else would a person kill themselves?

a couple of weeks ago
i read an article how suicide is the leading cause of death among young people in china
the term they used was
'the pressure in their lives had become intolerable'


intolerable
not able to tolerate

whitey
03-26-2006, 12:46 PM
you shoulda brought up the suicide bombers in iraq and all that, it supports your case.

but with them, i personally think their being used as tools. just like out soliders by bush.

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 12:47 PM
It is hard for me to see this as a form of human evolution, though.

It looks like savagery caused by desperation.

If people have gotten to the point where there is a majority of us who would rather commit suicide than live on planet Earth...

I would say remove the pressure and the source of it, and ya just gotta stay alive to make that happen.

LHX
03-26-2006, 12:52 PM
It is hard for me to see this as a form of human evolution, though.

It looks like savagery caused by desperation.

If people have gotten to the point where there is a majority of us who would rather commit suicide than live on planet Earth...

I would say remove the pressure and the source of it, and ya just gotta stay alive to make that happen.

people losing their fear of death is a huge leap in human evolution

1 - the original man had no fear of death
2 - he created an entity that feared death
3 - this fear drove his creation to conquer the planet
4 - at the height of its reign on the planet
the creation learned that death is an illusion

in a way
it comes full circle

the pressure is necessary to complete the mission


the relentless silver lining on the grey cloud


maybe thats one thing that we are neglecting to look at here
it would be interesting to find the stats of how many children of ceos and big business men and politicians are clinically depressed
and suicidal

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 01:42 PM
people losing their fear of death is a huge leap in human evolution

1 - the original man had no fear of death
2 - he created an entity that feared death
3 - this fear drove his creation to conquer the planet
4 - at the height of its reign on the planet
the creation learned that death is an illusion

in a way
it comes full circle

the pressure is necessary to complete the mission


the relentless silver lining on the grey cloud


maybe thats one thing that we are neglecting to look at here
it would be interesting to find the stats of how many children of ceos and big business men and politicians are clinically depressed
and suicidal

I think this post right here^ brings us full circle and back to the thread topic.

Property - the creation you speak of conquered the planet through declaring his false ownership of property.

That property can be described as a number of things like...land, airspace, and people.

The thing that left the Original man prey for his creation was the property of trick - knowledge....

The knowledge of the truth became known to the creation and he claimed ownership over it, then distorted it in an effort to slander his creator.

In order to come full circle we have to eliminate the 'private' property called trick - knowledge and eliminate the wicked creation who slandered his creator with it.

Was the creation and elimination of the wicked known by the Original Man, at first?

It is my understanding that it was and it was a plan designed to complete the mission of proving who and what the Truth is once and for all.

Unfortunately, suicides commence...

brown_dogg
03-26-2006, 01:47 PM
you shoulda brought up the suicide bombers in iraq and all that, it supports your case.

but with them, i personally think their being used as tools. just like out soliders by bush.

i don't think you fully understand "suicide bombers". In Iraq there are actually list of people who want to voluntarily become a suicide bomber. It's seen as a holy thing to do in some cases, and the government pays huge sums of money to do it.

whitey
03-26-2006, 01:56 PM
i don't think you fully understand "suicide bombers". In Iraq there are actually list of people who want to voluntarily become a suicide bomber. It's seen as a holy thing to do in some cases, and the government pays huge sums of money to do it.

i fully understand why they do it. and i see them as tools of their religious leaders. syriana, (recent movie with george clooney and matt damon) shows the phenomina rather well.

LHX
03-26-2006, 01:59 PM
The knowledge of the truth became known to the creation and he claimed ownership over it, then distorted it in an effort to slander his creator.

did it?


Was the creation and elimination of the wicked known by the Original Man, at first?

it must have been

the original man knows he cannot be destroyed or eliminated


It is my understanding that it was and it was a plan designed to complete the mission of proving who and what the Truth is once and for all.

i dont know if its quite as epic as that


Unfortunately, suicides commence...
true

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 02:09 PM
did it?


it must have been

the original man knows he cannot be destroyed or eliminated
That's the truth that he 'forgot' cause he was tricked with trick-knowledge

i dont know if its quite as epic as that
It better not be anything else less epic or else I'm going on a bloody murderous rampage :lmao:
true

I think if the truth could be proven then noone can fall victim to another...

Just my two cents..

LHX
03-26-2006, 02:13 PM
That's the truth that he 'forgot' cause he was tricked with trick-knowledge

not all of them forgot


I think if the truth could be proven then noone can fall victim to another...

Just my two cents..

the truth cannot be proven in words from one person to another

the truth is in words <----its in there

THE W
03-26-2006, 02:21 PM
the truth cannot be proven in words from one person to another

the truth is in words <----its in there

can you elaborate more on this?

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 02:28 PM
[/COLOR]

not all of them forgot

[COLOR=#ff0000]

the truth cannot be proven in words from one person to another

the truth is in words <----its in there

I didn't say anything about words, though.

Why do you think this trick - knowledge mission is so EPIC ??

Actually, you don't think that, huh.

But...that is why I put it that way at first.

*cough* supreme mathematics *cough*

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 02:43 PM
And...

Thank goodness not all of them forgot...cuz, that would have been the real disaster, IMO.

LHX
03-26-2006, 08:14 PM
can you elaborate more on this?

yes

but it will end up sounding like a taoist poem

Prolifical ENG
03-26-2006, 08:56 PM
I should buy some of that....I heard they stopped making it....

Aqua Luna
03-26-2006, 09:06 PM
^huh?

whitey
03-26-2006, 09:37 PM
anyone in hear read anything on Marx and his thoughts on personal property?

LHX
03-26-2006, 10:00 PM
anyone in hear read anything on Marx and his thoughts on personal property?

about 8 years ago

it didnt leave a mark tho

maybe i should revisit it


wikipedia or something

galt john galt
03-26-2006, 10:46 PM
property as in intellectual. which has personal conotations which become private. and used by the public at a cost. which over time and through the production of property - from the idea to the reality - dividend percentages are incurred and taken out. as an expenditure that must be recouped according to labor tools time energy and such.

LHX
03-26-2006, 11:11 PM
property as in intellectual which has personal conotations which become private and used by the public at a cost which over time and through the production of property from the idea to the reality dividend percentages are incurred and taken out as an expenditure that must be recouped according to labor tools time energy and such.

punctuation

or
at least break up the thoughts a bit

i dont have the energy to try to decipher that