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My First Timbs
04-05-2006, 09:17 PM
peace to all

ask away.

My Experience and Expertise

click here (http://www.acalltosanity.com/avatars/aboutauthor.jpg)

click here (http://www.acalltosanity.com/avatars/interview.jpg)

click here (http://www.acalltosanity.com)

and here (http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/robots/04-0923.html)

..and here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/141203096X/sr=8-1/qid=1144868405/ref=pd_bbs_1/104-0396562-0971155?%5Fencoding=UTF8)

and here (http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=141203096X&itm=1)

MaShPG
04-05-2006, 09:42 PM
what are we supposed to ask you about?

LHX
04-05-2006, 11:42 PM
this topic is now pinned

my main questions for timbs are

what is your current outlook overall for the situation on this planet?
and
is it easy to make your fields of expertise applicable to your day-to-day life?

peace bro

blackwisdom
04-06-2006, 12:08 AM
The topic of my question is Spirituality.

For me spirituality is our connection to our essence. I view spirituality the same as I view science. I see math and science as the languages of the Neters and the Creator. Everything was intertwined. One picture told the story of a million words. The mind body and spirit was intertwined but all had there own distinct order and composition. When you treated a dis-ease you treated the entire person. Everything possesses laws, cause without them there would be no order and no existance. I don't follow a European distorted doctrine but I am on a continued quest to further live out an African traditional belief system. The more I learn about our ways the more I associate them with scientific principles. The original concept of salvation from an African perspective birthed the vast majority of all of our technology and sciences, from astrology to melanin science (mummification was a result of the later science). Now to the question.

Do you view spirituality as a viable tool of continued understanding and growth of ourselves and the world that we live in? Note that I'm not referring to religious doctrine, but a connection to our essence and sustaining forces.

HOTEP

maestro wooz
04-06-2006, 12:39 AM
genetically and evolutionally, how do you explain whites and asians having smaller asses then blacks. That is, what were the differentiating factors in their enviroments that caused this disparity in ass size to occur?

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 09:27 AM
will answer all questions shortly....

TeknicelStylez
04-06-2006, 03:29 PM
genetically and evolutionally, how do you explain whites and asians having smaller asses then blacks. That is, what were the differentiating factors in their enviroments that caused this disparity in ass size to occur?

All jokes aside, I am honestly interested to see what he has to say.

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 03:32 PM
be back at 7pm eastern time to answer these questions...

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 03:43 PM
what in the event of evolution is more suspect and why? the leaps in physical or the ones that are mental?

being that evolution is partial to anthrpology is there any correlation as to cultures and their systems of belief? different cultures different living conditions etc.?

is there a final culmination of evolution? or has man with his intervention derailed the procees from occurring natural?

LHX
04-06-2006, 03:45 PM
be back at 7pm eastern time to answer these questions...

damn yo

this is a prime time feature



THURSDAY NIGHTS
7PM est

'DINNER WITH TIMBS'

APPEARING EXCLUSIVELY AT WUTANGCORP.COM

'know the ledge
or catch one in the head'

maestro wooz
04-06-2006, 03:48 PM
All jokes aside, I am honestly interested to see what he has to say.

ha, it started out as a joke with my friend about ass sizes but this question is a serious inquiry

Aqua Luna
04-06-2006, 04:00 PM
lol...I can't wait - Timbs is bout to drop some bombs

Either ya'll came from apes or fish....maybe both.

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 04:03 PM
lol...I can't wait - Timbs is bout to drop some bombs

Either ya'll came from apes or fish....


pseudo science and quasi philosophy. wait fish to monkeys ?! nah, not everybody can swim or climb trees. let alone reason to comprehend the logic towards at least understanding the dialetical from diatribe discourse.

no word on what made the one cells in the first place.

LHX
04-06-2006, 04:08 PM
no word on what made the one cells in the first place.

pressure and heat

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 04:14 PM
that makes diamonds. pressure and heat well we have traveled far from the first cause of pressure and are cooling off the heat, but what pressure in the water or air? they could have been in the air before water and dropped/fell down. no one knows this. the soil samples and such are much to unresponsive for a study of that sort.

LHX
04-06-2006, 04:18 PM
that makes diamonds. pressure and heat well we have traveled far from the first cause of pressure and are cooling off the heat, but what pressure in the water or air? they could have been in the air before water and dropped/fell down. no one knows this. the soil samples and such are much to unresponsive for a study of that sort.

diamonds are a form of carbon are they not?

would it make any difference if they were in the air before water?

would finding this out be of any benefit to the future of this planet?

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 04:23 PM
diamonds are a form of carbon are they not? yes

would it make any difference if they were in the air before water?possibly, the molecule interaction could play a significance.

would finding this out be of any benefit to the future of this planet?

yes, you could get the theories that we can from elements that are not from earth.

Visionz
04-06-2006, 04:47 PM
where in the human body would we find our consciousness ability to control our thoughts?

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 05:05 PM
where in the human body would we find our consciousness ability to control our thoughts?

your brain. watch as they come and go. see how they arise and and fall. how you react to them. what sensations do you feel. there is some correlation to feelings which spring from the heart.

Visionz
04-06-2006, 05:36 PM
^your brain has the thoughts, yes. I was asking more in regards to the will to control those thoughts. If it's the brain, what part of the brain is responsible?

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 05:55 PM
^your brain has the thoughts, yes. I was asking more in regards to the will to control those thoughts. If it's the brain, what part of the brain is responsible?

that is under neuroscience. as to what area of the brain for the brain is like an electrical storm cloud that is always striking lighting - never the same twice. cat scan or mri would show a diagram of the brain while in use for thermal type imaging to better locate such areas.

maestro wooz
04-06-2006, 06:42 PM
20 Minutes People!!

hectis
04-06-2006, 07:08 PM
Peace
Is It Possible That If Someone Took H2 + O Could They Make Water?

36chambers
04-06-2006, 07:18 PM
Your ill Timbs...

All I wanna know is, how did you book do man? Sales wise.

I hope it done well, and all the best for the future! One of the coolest people on this site!

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 07:22 PM
im here.. im writing my responses now

Prolifical ENG
04-06-2006, 07:31 PM
I might be off to the club tonight (it just renovated and im like a regular there...know all the bouncers and bartenders and shit) Then I started reading this thread so I thought of a question....

Anyway, so I can dance better than the average person around that way. And of course when I close down the floor with my dance moves, the females get impressed and I end up leaving that place with a few numbers.

So my question is why they start losing their minds when I start boogieing? I just do it because I like it and to and have fun. Is there some kind of genetic code built into people that get fascinated with dancing and it being attractive? Also is it similar to the scent attraction and how humans are attracted to the scent of the fragrences that are marketed?

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-06-2006, 07:34 PM
Question. Have you read the 9/11 Commision Report: Omissions and Distortions by Dr. David Ray Griffin. Do you beleive our government did this?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/boloadobo/friends/MikeNEdBdayParty088.jpg

I just seen him 4-3-06 at the Commonwealth club in SF he was talking about 9/11 and why the evidence suggests our Government was involved.

whitey
04-06-2006, 07:45 PM
Do you think the first things living on this earth...1)were spontanious combinations of certain elements, 2)from another place in space through astriod or other mode of transportation, 3)a god, 4)other?

thanks bud.

stak84
04-06-2006, 07:45 PM
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I might be off to the club tonight (it just renovated and im like a regular there...know all the bouncers and bartenders and shit) Then I started reading this thread so I thought of a question....

Anyway, so I can dance better than the average person around that way. And of course when I close down the floor with my dance moves, the females get impressed and I end up leaving that place with a few numbers.

So my question is why they start losing their minds when I start boogieing? I just do it because I like it and to and have fun. Is there some kind of genetic code built into people that get fascinated with dancing and it being attractive? Also is it similar to the scent attraction and how humans are attracted to the scent of the fragrences that are marketed?
__________________
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/7571/prolif2in.jpg


very simple answer, women equate good moves
and rhythm on the dance floor to good moves and
rhythm in bed, good dancing plus dencent looks
equals lots of booty, works for me anyways

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 07:54 PM
THURSDAY NIGHTS
7PM est

'DINNER WITH TIMBS'

APPEARING EXCLUSIVELY AT WUTANGCORP.COM

hiliarious :=)




=LHX

[quote]my main questions for timbs are

what is your current outlook overall for the situation on this planet?
and
is it easy to make your fields of expertise applicable to your day-to-day life?

peace bro


peace

my current outlook on this planet is actually quite bleek but I am optimistic that it will get better. (not hopeful, not “faithful”), just optimistic. We modern humans in the designated 21st century are plagued by many social ills of the mind. We oppose things without true merit for opposition, we possess ignorance (yet wear it as a proud badge) we let others areas of our thought creep in and force decisions about aspects of life of which they have no business being in.

Yet at the same time I am wholeheartedly optimistic. We human’s (as with every other creature on this planet) are basically learning as we go. As seen thru our past history, every period of social awareness is always followed by a period/generation of social slump. After the period of social slump, it is inevitable that old ideals and ideas are reinvestigated and amended and modified to ideas and ideals that are more mutually beneficial. Such is the state I believe we are currently in.

is it easy to make your fields of expertise applicable to your day-to-day life?

A big YES and a very small no

My formal training is in evolution and all of the ancillary knowledges that provides a verifiable framework for evolution. Daily, in a lab setting a see biological evolution and from that data I can make predictions that can be tested for so that ultimately the results will aid humanity in healthcare. The knowledge in this is that it approaches everything from a standpoint of “why”... of “Why things are the way they are”. What one must realize is that nothing on this planet makes sense unless it is viewed thru a lens of biological evolution and evolutionary thinking. Evolutionary thinking = approaching all situations, concepts and instances from a standpoint of “ is what I see and detect a symptom/trigger/ailment? or is it an evolutionary response”. This mode of thinking which I use daily aids one greatly in normal decision making.

For example ( I for one, know rhetoric is nothing without an example to back it up..so here is one..lol)

Last week, my friend's dog appeared sick. It had lost a lot of weight and was weak and thin. He immediately took it to the vet and the vet quickly put the dog on a diet of nutritional supplements. I then, immediately halted him from giving the dog the nutritional enhancement. I told him to let the dog continue to starve……. The reason u ask?? Simple.. evolutionary thinking….(why things are the way they are… symptom/ailment vs evolutionary response)

The dog was infected with a canine virus called Parvovirus. The canine biology of the united states over time has developed an evolutionary response to fight off the parvovirus (dogs in the eatsern hemisphere have not evolved this defense)! That evolutionary response is to force itself (the dog) into a state of anorexia! The anorexia deprives the virus of vital nutruients! (thus killing the virus after a week). If we would of given the dog the suppliment, it would of strenghthed the virus! Now we see how approaching the situation with evolutionary thinking was supremely beneficial!. It forces one to basically get to the root of the issue of why things are the way they are.. What I have learned from my formal training (and I use this in everyday life) is that one should not assess a situation (ie see the symptom) and from that and that alone make a prediction and judgment! One should always approach every situation thru a lens of why things are the way they are. Doing so aids decision making skills. This goes for every aspect of life. Not just in the lab, not just in healthcare, but every social aspect of life as well.

the small "no" is merely on a conversational level. its not everyday that i get to have conversations with others about mitochondrial sequencing...but i really wish i could! :)

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 08:33 PM
Black Wisdom Wrote: The topic of my question is Spirituality.

For me spirituality is our connection to our essence. I view spirituality the same as I view science. I see math and science as the languages of the Neters and the Creator. Everything was intertwined. One picture told the story of a million words. The mind body and spirit was intertwined but all had there own distinct order and composition. When you treated a dis-ease you treated the entire person. Everything possesses laws, cause without them there would be no order and no existance. I don't follow a European distorted doctrine but I am on a continued quest to further live out an African traditional belief system. The more I learn about our ways the more I associate them with scientific principles. The original concept of salvation from an African perspective birthed the vast majority of all of our technology and sciences, from astrology to melanin science (mummification was a result of the later science). Now to the question.

Do you view spirituality as a viable tool of continued understanding and growth of ourselves and the world that we live in? Note that I'm not referring to religious doctrine, but a connection to our essence and sustaining forces.

HOTEP

I agree 100% with the view that what u define as “spirituality” is a viable tool of continued understanding. I just don’t believe in the concept of a “spirit” as metaphysical entity separate from ourselves (but within ourself) that exists in objective reality. What you are explaining as the “spirit”, many others would define as “cultural understanding.. or cultural wealth”.. I would define it as the “ingrained culmination of human understanding”.

Thus “spirituality” (aka “the acknowledgement of the ingrained culmination of cultural understanding”) is indeed an invaluable tool in existence!

LORD NOSE
04-06-2006, 10:18 PM
whats your problem with me now ?


and what do you feel about whats said in the Q&A thread ?

maestro wooz
04-06-2006, 10:21 PM
I might be off to the club tonight (it just renovated and im like a regular there...know all the bouncers and bartenders and shit) Then I started reading this thread so I thought of a question....

Anyway, so I can dance better than the average person around that way. And of course when I close down the floor with my dance moves, the females get impressed and I end up leaving that place with a few numbers.

So my question is why they start losing their minds when I start boogieing? I just do it because I like it and to and have fun. Is there some kind of genetic code built into people that get fascinated with dancing and it being attractive? Also is it similar to the scent attraction and how humans are attracted to the scent of the fragrences that are marketed?

take pics

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 10:56 PM
Maestro Wooz Wrote: genetically and evolutionally, how do you explain whites and asians having smaller asses then blacks. That is, what were the differentiating factors in their enviroments that caused this disparity in ass size to occur?

Great question. There has been indeed been research on the issue of race and race morphology as a whole between races and cultures of various regions. Although from a purely empirical standpoint the issue of race is indeed under scrutiny, for all intents and purposes (and according to all recognized classification existing in all scientific lexicons), lets continue under the understanding that race:

1) details a subdivision within a species (characterized by morphology and genetic and physiological traits that can be inherited via mendelian mechanisms)
2) is not subjective, meaning it is not defined socially, but rather biologically.

Okay with that out the way, now we can continue.

The question of why blacks have bigger “bottoms” than whites and Asians has all to do with evolutionary concepts involving geographic adaptation, natural selection and sexual selection.

The Negro is defined in evolutionary biology as the “parent” variety of homo sapien (or sapien sapien) originating from sub Saharan Africa (below the belt of the sahara desert) some 200 thousand years ago. Natural selection has molded the morphology of all humans to best suit their environment. The Sub Saharan environment (a hot mixture of savanna and grassland) dictates that a darker skin tone is advantageous to help block harmful UV rays (preventing cancer) and also and more importantly preventing over production of vitamin D. Another adaptation to this environment was large tooth size to help cope with bits of sand and rock that will inevitably find their way into food eaten below the sahara!

Body size and type as u stated is indeed all dictated by environment (but also via cultural ideals ie “sexual selection”)

Generally, Humans in hotter climates follow what is known in the evolutionary field as “Allen’s rule”. That rule being that the hotter the climate, the more increased the size and definition of body parts.. So purely from a biological standpoint, the first negroids were supremely adapted to their environment with darker skin, wider noses flatter noses (that aid in cooling air before it reaches lungs (and consequently oxygen molecules before they are carried away by blood), in addition (and what ur question was all about) the larger rump is an adaptation to peoples who primarily live in savannas, grasslands, tropics or areas where there are little or no mountains, jagged hills or off center terrain. It is a evolutionary adaptation to peoples who will have to do a lot of walking (coupled with an adaptation of increased quadricep proficiency) and sitting on flat surfaces.

In contrast, a smaller narrower bottom is an adaptation of peoples who will primarily not do a lot of walking (coupled with a smaller quadricep mucscle) and primarily live in harsher, rougher more jagged hilly terrain. The more narrow the bottom, the easier it is to find a small comfortable nook to rest oneself on a jagged terrain.

..now i mentioned sexual selection. sexual selection is evolutionary selection carried out involuntarily by the species in question based on mating patterns!

it just so happened that based on biological norm and thus cultural ideals, that the larger bottoms of the tropical peoples is deemed "attractive" in the eyes of the majority of the race to which they belong. Thus over time (and on average..meaning greater than 50% of the time) "ass shape" and size has been a determining factor in mating choice! Meaning that the phenotype of ass shape has not been lost even to this day because the cultural ideal of ass shape being a determining factor in mating choice continues to this day even tho we no longer live in savannas and grasslands that require this trait!

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 11:23 PM
is alchemy a legitimate science?

Peace Legato

Alchemy in its most purest sense is not a science. First i must explain that there is no such thing as a "legitimate science" versus " an illegitimate science".

Science doesnt work that way. Something either is, or is not a "science", if its "illegitimate" .. it obviously isnt "science".

Throghout history there have been different takes on alchemy.

Alchemy at one time, in its purest form was the alleged "art" (not science, and notice it was "alleged") of turning any metal into a precious metal.

as time went on, alchemy was then belief that one could create an elixir or vitality potion to cure all ailments

lastly, alchemy took the form of the art of creating potions to gain immortality.

all 3 of these arts were not scientific.. in the most simple sense, alchemy isnt scientific because its philosophy relies on the realm of the supernatural, magic and superstition. And thus possesses the trait known to science as "unfalsifiability", meaning the alleged results could never be truly verifies because at the end of te day the accuracy of the alleged data and results is at the whim of a supernatural force.

yet for some reason, alchemy and the idea of it, has not died.. it has captured the minds and attention of people to this day.. even tho it has never really accomplished anything of merit.

now thats alchemy in the strict sense.. its not a science.

The act or belief that chemicals can be created that will cure ills and ailments of humanity is the philosophy of alchemy and would be a science if it did not involve unfalsifiable means..... but then it wouldnt be alchemy. it would purely be a regulated science such as chemical synthetics

My First Timbs
04-07-2006, 12:15 AM
1) what in the event of evolution is more suspect and why? the leaps in physical or the ones that are mental?

2) being that evolution is partial to anthrpology is there any correlation as to cultures and their systems of belief? different cultures different living conditions etc.?

is there a final culmination of evolution? or has man with his intervention derailed the procees from occurring natural?

im not really sure what u are asking with the first part (regarding leaps in the physical vs mental) im sorry, but please clarify

2) evolution is indeed intrinsically tied to the hip of anthroplogy. Human evolution that is… ( the knowledge of the evolution of flightless birds has nothing to do with anthropology in contrast)….

I once taught a collge level evolution course and I demanded that all students either take anthropology concurrently with the course or had to have atlkeast taken anthropology in the past.


is there any correlation as to cultures and their systems of belief? different cultures different living conditions etc

indeed there is a direct correlation. It must first be known and understood that all religions and religious concepts stem from early hominids living in hunter gatherer societies at the whim of nature. Populations who rely more on nature and the whim of the natural world for daily survival are more prone to have developed gods and religious ideals focused on their current day to day survival. These types of gods are called “focal gods”. Focal gods are gods that preside over some aspect of reality that directly impact the daily lifestyle of the believer.

For example, a god of fire, a god of rain, a god of fertiity etc etc. Focal god communities were also prone to polytheism (just based on the nature of the belief, its only natural to have more than one god.. what good is praying to the god of fire when the soil isn’t fertile?) It must also be known that the focal god was not thought to control the whole earth. The concept of “the entire earth” was not even born yet.

as time went on and humanity life style changed , our gods and ideas of religion and god changed as well . (notice I didn’t say that humanity “progressed”.. progress is a subjective assertion!). As populations started harnessing certain aspects of the natural world, a reliance on the focal god concept decreased. In addition, now gods were less focal and started becoming anthropomorphisized (made more human like) and were now able to be sad, happy, angry etc. This death of of the focal god lead to the death of polytheism. With the ushering in of monotheism also now came the birth of rage, persecution and fear of others who don’t hold the same god concept as u!

This is why thru wars and bloodshed, the losers “god” and religion was either destroyed or somehow made more similar to the now new ruling class.

This trend continues to this very day.

Culture and anthropology and human evolution and religion type are all tied together. Cultures who have been thru many wars and oppression on average have gods who were originally less charming than populations who experienced no war or oppression (such as the case with the native American and aboriginal peoples)



3) is there a final culmination of evolution? or has man with his intervention derailed the procees from occurring natural?


no. But first i must say that ur question stems from a misunderstanding of evolution. Evolutionisnt goal oriented or purpose oriented. Evolution is merely nothing but a change in the genes over time. G/T

Humans, although not living at the whim of nature and feeling the effects of geographic environmental stress on the same level we did 15000 years ago, does not mean that evolution has slowed or stopped. Its still going on. we are part of nature and will never be able to escape evolution.

recent studies have shows tha the human thumb is migrating closer to the index finger at a rate of 0.02 millimeters per generation. This is evolution ! the reason for this has to do with sexual selection and natural selection. this is just one small example among a myriad. evolution will be in existence as long as there are creatures on the planet with genomes.

My First Timbs
04-07-2006, 12:31 AM
where in the human body would we find our consciousness ability to control our thoughts?

the part of the body is easy.. its the brain.

we control our thoughts with a combination of the cerebrum and cerebellum.

consciousness however does not occur or is not located in one exact part of the brain.. rather it exists everwhere in part of a neural network that gradually becomes more advanced.

My First Timbs
04-07-2006, 12:39 AM
Your ill Timbs...

All I wanna know is, how did you book do man? Sales wise.

I hope it done well, and all the best for the future! One of the coolest people on this site!

thanx 36. i really appreciate it.

well, a call to sanity is doing quite well. once it got picked up by amazon and barnes and borders, the sales took off.
i stay promoting it hardcore.. doing lectures and stuff at colleges.. honestly i approach it just like the so called "rap game"

u do better by "touring" then by sales alone..

whitey
04-07-2006, 01:15 AM
indeed there is a direct correlation. It must first be known and understood that all religions and religious concepts stem from early hominids living in hunter gatherer societies at the whim of nature. Populations who rely more on nature and the whim of the natural world for daily survival are more prone to have developed gods and religious ideals focused on their current day to day survival. These types of gods are called “focal gods”. Focal gods are gods that preside over some aspect of reality that directly impact the daily lifestyle of the believer.

For example, a god of fire, a god of rain, a god of fertiity etc etc. Focal god communities were also prone to polytheism (just based on the nature of the belief, its only natural to have more than one god.. what good is praying to the god of fire when the soil isn’t fertile?) It must also be known that the focal god was not thought to control the whole earth. The concept of “the entire earth” was not even born yet.

as time went on and humanity life style changed , our gods and ideas of religion and god changed as well . (notice I didn’t say that humanity “progressed”.. progress is a subjective assertion!). As populations started harnessing certain aspects of the natural world, a reliance on the focal god concept decreased. In addition, now gods were less focal and started becoming anthropomorphisized (made more human like) and were now able to be sad, happy, angry etc. This death of of the focal god lead to the death of polytheism. With the ushering in of monotheism also now came the birth of rage, persecution and fear of others who don’t hold the same god concept as u!

This is why thru wars and bloodshed, the losers “god” and religion was either destroyed or somehow made more similar to the now new ruling class.

This trend continues to this very day.

Culture and anthropology and human evolution and religion type are all tied together. Cultures who have been thru many wars and oppression on average have gods who were originally less charming than populations who experienced no war or oppression (such as the case with the native American and aboriginal peoples)




no. But first i must say that ur question stems from a misunderstanding of evolution. Evolutionisnt goal oriented or purpose oriented. Evolution is merely nothing but a change in the genes over time. G/T

Humans, although not living at the whim of nature and feeling the effects of geographic environmental stress on the same level we did 15000 years ago, does not mean that evolution has slowed or stopped. Its still going on. we are part of nature and will never be able to escape evolution.

recent studies have shows tha the human thumb is migrating closer to the index finger at a rate of 0.02 millimeters per generation. This is evolution ! the reason for this has to do with sexual selection and natural selection. this is just one small example among a myriad. evolution will be in existence as long as there are creatures on the planet with genomes.


a lot of people on this board really need to read this.

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 01:36 AM
Yeah...you need to read it.

whitey
04-07-2006, 01:45 AM
nuh uhhh you need to read it :)

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 01:58 AM
Why?...why, whiteboi? why?...lol - Sleepers

WARPATH
04-07-2006, 03:48 AM
What school did you earn your Phd from?

Would you be considered a Paelentologist?

When did the wooly mammoth become extinct? What caused it's extinction?

Do you know if there is any truth behind bigfoot or abomnible snowman stories- or stories of sea serpents like the lochness monster?

Visionz
04-07-2006, 11:48 AM
ill let you know when i turn alchemy into a science


shit, homie, if you figure that one out let me know. I got some aluminum cans you can borrow.

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-07-2006, 05:16 PM
Question. Have you read the 9/11 Commision Report: Omissions and Distortions by Dr. David Ray Griffin. Do you beleive our government did this?

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g192/boloadobo/friends/MikeNEdBdayParty088.jpg

I just seen him 4-3-06 at the Commonwealth club in SF he was talking about 9/11 and why the evidence suggests our Government was involved.

HERES AN ARTICLE ON HIM
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/03/30_t/ns_outloud30_ph_t.gif

When David Ray Griffin, noted theologian and professor emeritus at the Claremont School of Theology, first heard someone say that Sept. 11 was an inside job, he scoffed.

"I can remember my exact words. ... I said, 'I don't think that even the Bush administration could perpetrate such a thing,' " said Griffin, who has since written two books, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions,'' which dispute the official version of events. Specifically, Griffin believes that the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks.

Griffin began to delve into 9/11 conspiracy theories after looking at a time line of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 (by Paul Thompson, who later turned it into a book) on the Internet. He found himself swayed by the catalog of inconsistencies and strange coincidences.

When asked what the most compelling facts are to make the case that the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks, Griffin names three things. The behavior of Bush at the schoolhouse in Florida ("Secret Service should have whisked him out immediately if we're under attack but he stayed over 30 minutes. ... It's pretty clear evidence that they knew they wouldn't be attacked"), the strange pyrotechnics that brought down the World Trade Center ("fire has never brought down a steel high-rise building") and the poorly planned targeting of the West Wing of the Pentagon ("all the important people are in the East Wing -- it doesn't make any sense").

Not only that, Griffin points to historical evidence that the U.S. government would be capable of such a thing. Operation Northwoods, a plan concocted by the Pentagon in the '60s as a way of taking Castro from power, included ideas about how a terrorist attack on U.S. soil could provide a pretext for military action.

But why now? Griffin names the neoconservative think tank the Project for the New American Century as a motivating force. "Once you look at it, they have lots of motivation," he says. "It's what the neocons have been salivating about."

"The goals would be to get control of the world's oil and establish a new doctrine of pre-emptive warfare. That was a difficult sell before 9/11."

While many conspiracy theories have been passed around, it's been very easy to dismiss many of the theorists as, well, crazy. But Griffin comes to his controversial conclusions with lucidity and calm. He even sees a connection between his long-standing work as a theologian and his new position as a political writer.

"In both cases, the concern is for the good of the world as a whole. Those of us who believe in God believe that trashing the world is not what God wants."

David Ray Griffin speaks on "9/11: The Myth & the Reality." 7 p.m. today, Grand Lake Theater, 3200 Grand Ave., Oakland. (510) 452-3556. He also appears at 11:30 a.m. Mon.,Commonwealth Club, 595 Market St., S.F. (415) 597-6700. www.commonwealthclub.org. $15.

blackwisdom
04-07-2006, 07:51 PM
I agree 100% with the view that what u define as “spirituality” is a viable tool of continued understanding. I just don’t believe in the concept of a “spirit” as metaphysical entity separate from ourselves (but within ourself) that exists in objective reality. What you are explaining as the “spirit”, many others would define as “cultural understanding.. or cultural wealth”.. I would define it as the “ingrained culmination of human understanding”.

Thus “spirituality” (aka “the acknowledgement of the ingrained culmination of cultural understanding”) is indeed an invaluable tool in existence!Thank you for the reply, My First Timbs

Peace

maestro wooz
04-08-2006, 02:00 AM
if consciousness is simply mental stimulus and signals, and humans are just the most advanced of creatures, will rabbits, in thousands of years, assuming the world and rabbits will even be around then, develop to this advanced brain level, and we will begin to see rabbit hookers, rabbit slurpees, rabbit vehicles, and, most importantly for many us, rabbit high speed internet?

My First Timbs
04-08-2006, 02:30 AM
What school did you earn your Phd from?

Would you be considered a Paelentologist?

When did the wooly mammoth become extinct? What caused it's extinction?

Do you know if there is any truth behind bigfoot or abomnible snowman stories- or stories of sea serpents like the lochness monster?

1) a college and university in new jersey

2) i am not a paleontologist. my formal training and education is in evolution. i am an evolutionary biologist. it just so happens that evolution is such a far reaching discipline that it encompassed and is tie dto so many different fields (one being paleontology)

3) the wholly mammoth died out during the quaternary era (the era beginning about 1.8 million years ago and still going on till this day).. yep we currently live in the quaternary period! this perios saw the rise of the giant mammals (sloths, saber tooth tigers, rhinos etc, but also saw the rise of man)

mammoth extinction is a topic that is continually being researched and rethought in evolutionary biology ( thats how science works.. everything is always re examined and in a state of flux.. thats a good thing...otherwise it would be purely dogmatic and not open to change or reform based on new eveidence)

the current evidence dictates that the mammoth did not die base on 1 specific thing, but rather (as with most exitinction events) a few things!

a) a change in climate.. mammoths thrived during the ice age.. but approx 15 thousand years ago the ice age was coming to an end.. with that, the air moistur level changed and plant life changed.. hence the mammoth diet was abrubtly altered.

b) hominids (us) crossed over into north america by way of siberia and were at this time skilled hunters with spears and great strategies. we hunted them almost to total extinction

c) with us, we brought a hidden weapon.. that weapon being disease and bacterial infection that existed in the human louse (lice) and fleas of our domesticated animals. lice and fleas contain certain pathogens within their bodies that we humans by this time had evolved a resistnace to. the poor mammoth (who was never introduced to these dangers) ws unequipped to face the microbial weaponry we possessed.

the 3 factors lead to mammoth extinction. the last ammoth died about 12 thousand years ago.

4) regarding loch ness, bigfoot and ab snowmen ther is only speculation and anecdotal evidence. there is no evidence to really comment on. they could exist or could of existed in some form, but there is no evidence to prove it. so its a wash.

My First Timbs
04-08-2006, 02:37 AM
if consciousness is simply mental stimulus and signals, and humans are just the most advanced of creatures, will rabbits, in thousands of years, assuming the world and rabbits will even be around then, develop to this advanced brain level, and we will begin to see rabbit hookers, rabbit slurpees, rabbit vehicles, and, most importantly for many us, rabbit high speed internet?

there is no telling. evolution isnt goal oriented and purpose driven!

time alone does not dictate that acreature has to become as u say "more advanced"

evolution is a change in the genes over time based on environmental stressors! (environment could be anything.. physical environment/habitat, social environment/ predatory success rate etc)

so as for rabbits one day becoming sentient and possessing the type of brain functioning we have.. its theoretically possible but not plausible.

the only way for this to ocur is if the environmental stress encourages it!

for example, if humans are no longer around in 1000 years and rabbits are still around and happen to have no more natural predators and happen to have a few genetic mutatations at the right time (that are inheritable and beneficial) then yes.. anything is possible. but the niche must be there for the rabbits to fill. as of right now we basically control that niche.

but if we werent here, then yes its possible another life form would be the dominant intelligent life form.

imagine if the dinosaurs were never wiped out.!!! we humans wouldnt be here and its totally plausible that the dominant life form (with inteligence) in the year 2006 would be reptilian

Aqua Luna
04-08-2006, 02:49 AM
Well...I would ask you sometin - but, hell naw...them white folks just waiting fo you to say some shit that proves that the Blackman ain't God.

I ain't buying into that shit...have fun Timbs - and I hope you sell alot of books.

They rather believe that a fish is God rather than the Original Asiatic Blackman...but I already know where you coming from with the Atheist thing -so it's all good.

maestro wooz
04-08-2006, 03:42 AM
there is no telling. evolution isnt goal oriented and purpose driven!

time alone does not dictate that acreature has to become as u say "more advanced"

evolution is a change in the genes over time based on environmental stressors! (environment could be anything.. physical environment/habitat, social environment/ predatory success rate etc)

so as for rabbits one day becoming sentient and possessing the type of brain functioning we have.. its theoretically possible but not plausible.

the only way for this to ocur is if the environmental stress encourages it!

for example, if humans are no longer around in 1000 years and rabbits are still around and happen to have no more natural predators and happen to have a few genetic mutatations at the right time (that are inheritable and beneficial) then yes.. anything is possible. but the niche must be there for the rabbits to fill. as of right now we basically control that niche.

but if we werent here, then yes its possible another life form would be the dominant intelligent life form.

imagine if the dinosaurs were never wiped out.!!! we humans wouldnt be here and its totally plausible that the dominant life form (with inteligence) in the year 2006 would be reptilian

hmm good answer

Aqua Luna
04-08-2006, 03:43 AM
^ See?...case in point, got damn white folks - aahahaha!

whitey
04-08-2006, 11:23 AM
Well...I would ask you sometin - but, hell naw...them white folks just waiting fo you to say some shit that proves that the Blackman ain't God.

I ain't buying into that shit...have fun Timbs - and I hope you sell alot of books.

They rather believe that a fish is God rather than the Original Asiatic Blackman...but I already know where you coming from with the Atheist thing -so it's all good.


thats how science works.. everything is always re examined and in a state of flux.. thats a good thing...otherwise it would be purely dogmatic and not open to change or reform based on new eveidence


.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 12:52 PM
in your thorough study of the scriptures do you find it possible that the Black man is the God thats written about in them ?

if no then why

LHX
04-08-2006, 06:17 PM
there is a difference between the evolution of a physical body
and
the appearance of divine intelligence in a physical body



that wasnt a question
more of a reminder

sakk
04-09-2006, 12:20 PM
Can anyone get a PhD? (I mean does everyone have the talent or is it just a matter of hard work?)

My First Timbs
04-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Can anyone get a PhD? (I mean does everyone have the talent or is it just a matter of hard work?)

anyone can earn one, provided they have the dedication and are willing to put in long years of concentrated study and can successfuully defend what it is they propose the fruits of their reserach yielded

also providing u get accepted into the program

it helps out a whole lot if u are very fascinated by what u are studying (that way it seems more like fun and personal gain, than work)

My First Timbs
04-09-2006, 10:43 PM
im sorry bigben.. im not familiar with that.. im reading up on it now

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-09-2006, 11:22 PM
Alright let me know what you think.

galt john galt
04-10-2006, 04:27 PM
which form of evolution the physical or the mental is faster? the leaps in logic or the leap in a generation?

My First Timbs
04-10-2006, 06:50 PM
which form of evolution the physical or the mental is faster? the leaps in logic or the leap in a generation?

sadly, from a cultural standpoint, the physical form of evolution (change in genotypic allelic frequency) is alot faster than the mental (ie change in idealogical stance, etc)

sweet sista
04-11-2006, 01:26 AM
peace to all

ask away.

my expertise:

1) Ph.D in Evolutionary Analysis
2) Research Scientist by profession
3) Author of 2 books on Atheism and Religion


okay i have a quetion!
ummm,
explain to me dis
http://www.quranicstudies.com/printout70.html

i mean how could this happen in the middle ages? how could someone know all about these facts without any sort of developed scientific equipments?

My First Timbs
04-12-2006, 12:06 AM
okay i have a quetion!
ummm,
explain to me dis
http://www.quranicstudies.com/printout70.html (http://www.quranicstudies.com/printout70.html)

i mean how could this happen in the middle ages? how could someone know all about these facts without any sort of developed scientific equipments?



I am so glad you brought this up. This “argument” has been floating around for years unchecked and its about time it be addressed cause im so tired of hearing it.

The argument is actually quite funny and sad at the same time. It’s the same type (and form) of uninformed, meaningless “propogandic” babble that the Christian Creationists propose on a daily basis.. (all the while based on an argument from ignorance). I have a sincere distate for this Islamic claim because it is a glowing example of propaganda and INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY (it also shows how the believer is so hasty to latch on to anything that shows a sign of the "miraculous" instead of wholeheartedly and “calmly” and rationally thinking about the situation at hand)

In one of my latest college lectures I spent an extensive amount of time countering this Islamic claim.

But to spare everyone a 3 hour lecture.. the main point is (in a nutshell)

The Quran is far from miraculous or exquisite or mind boggling in its description of alleged biological processes. The alleged accuracy of description of "embryology" (if u wanna call it that) in the quran is far from special. Everything that is “explained” as a form of embryology (before scientific advancement) can easily (very very easily) be explained by the most simplistic observation of living creatures and the natural processes of life…

lets go back for a second...

It all starts with the Islamic issue of “nutfah” or fluid produced duting intercourse that leads to pregnancy.. in other words semen. Those who want desperately to claim that knowledge of “nutfah” is proof the Quran is divinely inspired are sadly mislead.

Muslims of the 6th and 7th century (the alleged time of Muhammed), would damn well know (just as every human who has ever been on the planet and reached sexual maturity..or watched sexually mature creatures other than humanity) that procreation is only possible when there is a “propulsion of fluid or as they say "nutfah")… so strike one against the claim that this is evidence that the Quran is divinely inspired… nothing special here…….its nothing but a direct observation.. whats so divine about it?….nothing

But the meat of the issue is the passage (forgive my type written attempt at Arabic)

“Tom kha;aqna alnot fat alaqa , fakalaqna alalaqat modegha, khalana almodghat azama, fakasawna aleesazam lahma, thom anshanah khalqan”

which directly translates into

We the God(s) created the seminal fluid/nutfah into a clot , then created from it a lump of tissue that went on to develop bones which are later covered with flesh”

Now u must ask yourself honestly.. is any of this evidence of divine inspiration? Is any of this evidence that something magical must have going on in the 6th century for people to “know this”?

The answer u get when u honestly answer those questions is a hard and loud NO !

Humans have had some form or sort of experience with "embryological development" for hundreds of thousands of years (since the dawn of civilization) .. the passage in the Quran is no more than the ordinary joe would know who has ever observed anything that is alive or built anything! (u start with a beginning mold, more parts are added onto it, then it needs a covering and boom..its done..) and as for the whole magical , awe inspiring claim of “clot”.. any human would who has ever observed nature (or unfortunately has had experience with a miscarriage (or even a heavy menstrual cycle ) would describe a “fetal conceptus” as blood clot like)! This isn’t rocket science (it isn’t even science… its called natural observation and conjecture !

Now u must ask yourself honestly again.. is any of this evidence of divine inspiration? Is any of this evidence that something magical must have been going on in the 6th century for people to “know this”?

The answer u get when u honestly answer those questions is a hard and loud NO !

But wait! It gets even better! The Quran’s attempt at “embryology” states (as I noted above) that basically

Step 1) nutfah gushes out ....presumably into the female
Step 2) this fusion of fluids causes a clot of tissue to begin to form (leech like in appearance)

Step 3) the clot like tissue grows into a bigger lump

Step 4) the lumpy mess grows bones

Step 5) the lumpy bony “thing” is then finally wrapped in a covering of skin/flesh

Well I gotta tell you.. if this is divinely inspired it seems that whatever deity did the “inspiring” needs to go back to community college and take remedial Histology courses cause that’s not how a fetus actually develops (in any verterbrate species)

The genesis of the brain and chordata (spinal column) occur concurrently in vertebrate development! The brain obviously isn’t bone.. and it obviously isn’t “a flesh covering”.. yet the Quran doesn’t account for this ! Bones are not made first and then a flesh covering is made.. it simply doesn’t occur that way. Flesh is actually made “first” and bone is subsequently developed and lags behind.

But I know.. none of what im saying is gonna matter and ur prolly gonna say.. “well even if the Quran is incorrect on the intricacies, that doesn’t matter.. the Quran is divinely inspired and ppl back then just didn’t have the tools or means to know even a hint of this type of stuff…”

Keep kidding urself… and worse.. keep being “intellectually dishonest” to yourself. its a religious trend that has been in existence since the dawn on monotheism

timbs

dif de la rev
04-12-2006, 10:39 PM
has mankind in it's helm at self evolution, hindered the evolution of this planet? and if not how so?

WARPATH
04-13-2006, 07:17 AM
There are many eukaryotes that seem to do things rather similar to certain prokaryotes. There are photosynthesizing eukaryotic algae as well as prokaryotic autotrophs, and there are both eukaryotic slime molds and fungi and prokaryotic myxobacteria. All in all, there is a great diversity of ways of life on both sides. I'm not sure if I'm being very clear but I guess that these similar-looking forms must be doing something quite differently. Eukaryotes are slower at growing and reproducing, so they must compensate somehow. Perhaps there really are some significant differences in the ecological roles, in the life cycles, for instance.

My question has to do with evolution also in the following sense. Why did eukaryotes evolve and diversify before they gave rise to complex multicellular forms (made possible by their more complicated workings)? Eukaryotes could do things that prokaryotes couldn't, but what were these?

MoT
04-13-2006, 09:23 PM
I agree 100% with the view that what u define as “spirituality” is a viable tool of continued understanding. I just don’t believe in the concept of a “spirit” as metaphysical entity separate from ourselves (but within ourself) that exists in objective reality. What you are explaining as the “spirit”, many others would define as “cultural understanding.. or cultural wealth”.. I would define it as the “ingrained culmination of human understanding”.

Thus “spirituality” (aka “the acknowledgement of the ingrained culmination of cultural understanding”) is indeed an invaluable tool in existence!

you have a great mind sir and it was very intersting reading through these Q&A's.

could you please explain why you don't belive this concept of spirit/soul ? because i've come across many interpretations of WHAT SOUL IS/IS NOT but i dont think any of them stated that it could be an entity separate from ourselves but within ourself.. alone it lacks sense unless it would float through and around each one..

but that would also mean that our perception (even tho parallel to perspective) doesnt catch or recognise some sort of energy fields or sound waves or something completely different that could be beyond the 3rd dimensional "view"...

that was a bit off but also i would appreciate if you could break down
"ingrained culmination of human understanding” and/or “the acknowledgement of the ingrained culmination of cultural understanding” especially the ingrained culmination because not even the dictionary helped me....

My First Timbs
04-14-2006, 12:34 AM
bigben : Alright let me know what you think.


dif de la rev: has mankind in it's helm at self evolution, hindered the evolution of this planet? and if not how so?




charging soldier:
There are many eukaryotes that seem to do things rather similar to certain prokaryotes. There are photosynthesizing eukaryotic algae as well as prokaryotic autotrophs, and there are both eukaryotic slime molds and fungi and prokaryotic myxobacteria. All in all, there is a great diversity of ways of life on both sides. I'm not sure if I'm being very clear but I guess that these similar-looking forms must be doing something quite differently. Eukaryotes are slower at growing and reproducing, so they must compensate somehow. Perhaps there really are some significant differences in the ecological roles, in the life cycles, for instance.

My question has to do with evolution also in the following sense. Why did eukaryotes evolve and diversify before they gave rise to complex multicellular forms (made possible by their more complicated workings)? Eukaryotes could do things that prokaryotes couldn't, but what were these?




MOT:
you have a great mind sir and it was very intersting reading through these Q&A's.

could you please explain why you don't belive this concept of spirit/soul ? because i've come across many interpretations of WHAT SOUL IS/IS NOT but i dont think any of them stated that it could be an entity separate from ourselves but within ourself.. alone it lacks sense unless it would float through and around each one..

but that would also mean that our perception (even tho parallel to perspective) doesnt catch or recognise some sort of energy fields or sound waves or something completely different that could be beyond the 3rd dimensional "view"...

that was a bit off but also i would appreciate if you could break down
"ingrained culmination of human understanding” and/or “the acknowledgement of the ingrained culmination of cultural understanding” especially the ingrained culmination because not even the dictionary helped me....


i havent forgotten about these questions.. i will answer them shortly..

My First Timbs
04-14-2006, 09:58 PM
P.S.

I am very appreciative of the individual fromn this site who recently purchased A Call To Sanity from Amazon.com

thanks

sweet sista
04-15-2006, 12:41 AM
I am so glad you brought this up. This “argument” has been floating around for years unchecked and its about time it be addressed cause im so tired of hearing it.

The argument is actually quite funny and sad at the same time. It’s the same type (and form) of uninformed, meaningless “propogandic” babble that the Christian Creationists propose on a daily basis.. (all the while based on an argument from ignorance). I have a sincere distate for this Islamic claim because it is a glowing example of propaganda and INTELLECTUAL DISHONESTY (it also shows how the believer is so hasty to latch on to anything that shows a sign of the "miraculous" instead of wholeheartedly and “calmly” and rationally thinking about the situation at hand)

Talking like you're the one who is wholehearted about your seek for knowledge and science!? You sound like someone who can't wait to argue about something just to show off. Not to think of the possibility that any of these facts could be true but you're more like a leper, you don't seek for the cure but you just want the itch. True scientists examine things to check if they are true and do they work. So-called scientists check every possible delusion and hallucination and use the ignorance of others in a particular topic just to show that some beliefs are false. Just like that!

Some people try create a self value by denying the most valuable thing in the world. The faith that makes people humans. The faith that stop people hurting to each others. The faith that get people to do good to each others.

Some people who desperately wants to be unique, no matter what is the cost. Even if it means to lose their humanity. Insult their intelligence. They want to be so different from most people. Even if that uniqueness means to be incorrect but they go like “hey, we're different! We're knowledgeable, we're unique, we don't believe in God” yeah it's uniqueness but like the uniqueness of a bad putrid apple among all good apples.


It all starts with the Islamic issue of “nutfah” or fluid produced duting intercourse that leads to pregnancy.. in other words semen. Those who want desperately to claim that knowledge of “nutfah” is proof the Quran is divinely inspired are sadly mislead.

“Nutfa” as a word taken individually without looking at the exact meanings to it. And without looking at the how God talked about it in the verses and all the other words that complete the whole picture in that verse IS sadly blindness.




Muslims of the 6th and 7th century (the alleged time of Muhammed), would damn well know (just as every human who has ever been on the planet and reached sexual maturity..or watched sexually mature creatures other than humanity) that procreation is only possible when there is a “propulsion of fluid or as they say "nutfah")… so strike one against the claim that this is evidence that the Quran is divinely inspired… nothing special here…….its nothing but a direct observation.. whats so divine about it?….nothing

At the time and in the area where the Koran was revealed, very few people knew how to read or to write. The environment didn't support that and even those who knew how to read and to write didn't believe in Koran not cuz there was anything wrong with it but cuz the teachings of Koran is to treat people equally and justly that includes the poor and the rich and they were too arrogant to submit to that. The environment at that time didn't support the idea of learning so the biggest interest of the people at that time and in that area were poetry, articulation and battles for the honor of the tribe.

Those things you claim it's just an observation, people weren't interested in observing them. When two couple used to have sex, who had the time in the 6th or 7th century to observe his fluid? And not only that, he is going to describe it in a scientific way like he is from our time.
Everything in the Koran is special for the people of understanding, knowledge and awareness and conscious.

You're the hasty one in this, not the believers!



But the meat of the issue is the passage (forgive my type written attempt at Arabic)

“Tom kha;aqna alnot fat alaqa , fakalaqna alalaqat modegha, khalana almodghat azama, fakasawna aleesazam lahma, thom anshanah khalqan”

which directly translates into

We the God(s) created the seminal fluid/nutfah into a clot , then created from it a lump of tissue that went on to develop bones which are later covered with flesh”

every normal human being, if he/she thinks deeply and wisely he/she'll find it makes sense. Cuz if not then it's like saying the tree's leafs was there before the tree's bole! How could that be?


Humans have had some form or sort of experience with "embryological development" for hundreds of thousands of years (since the dawn of civilization) .. the passage in the Quran is no more than the ordinary joe would know who has ever observed anything that is alive or built anything! (u start with a beginning mold, more parts are added onto it, then it needs a covering and boom..its done..) and as for the whole magical , awe inspiring claim of “clot”.. any human would who has ever observed nature (or unfortunately has had experience with a miscarriage (or even a heavy menstrual cycle ) would describe a “fetal conceptus” as blood clot like)!


Okay, sweetheart, c'mon do this boom and create a human and i'll come and start to worship you and consider you as a GOD!

Who did that Boom? You? I think not. It was God who created it all !! that's the miraculous about God and Koran “the words of God” whither it's big or small noticeable or not you still can't do nothing like it! Huh, You gibber jabber like that like “oh it's easy oh it's simple oh oh it's noticeable” aight why don't you do like it,gorgeous scientist?!!

i mean Can you start with mold, add more parts onto it and then cover it and BOOM you did that silly “natural observed” clot??? i think not!

Allah made those things easy to see so you ain't gonna say “well, i can't see dis i can see dat. Dos all unseen” he wants you to see his signs. He ain't gonna talk to you about the three-eyed goblin on some other planet.



This isn’t rocket science (it isn’t even science… its called natural observation and conjecture !

Ain't rocket science? Not even science? Well, that show how weak and helpless humans are. You can't create even that silly little “nothing” thing!! How pathetic !!
That shows that the world needs a God, cuz even these silly not even scientific things can't be done without God.


But wait! It gets even better! The Quran’s attempt at “embryology” states (as I noted above) that basically

Step 1) nutfah gushes out ....presumably into the female
Step 2) this fusion of fluids causes a clot of tissue to begin to form (leech like in appearance)

Step 3) the clot like tissue grows into a bigger lump

Step 4) the lumpy mess grows bones

Step 5) the lumpy bony “thing” is then finally wrapped in a covering of skin/flesh

The genesis of the brain and chordata (spinal column) occur concurrently in vertebrate development! The brain obviously isn’t bone.. and it obviously isn’t “a flesh covering”.. yet the Quran doesn’t account for this ! Bones are not made first and then a flesh covering is made.. it simply doesn’t occur that way. Flesh is actually made “first” and bone is subsequently developed and lags behind.

From which hell did you ever get that glorious information about the flesh and the bone and that the flesh was created before the bone 4 god sake? Did you really believed that you're a scientist?! Or did you have it as a dream and now you're pleasing' us with it? IF all scientific resources prove that the bone cells were created first and before the flesh cells.

After the long searches and studies of the best scientists. It was obiouse ta them “once again the best scientists” that the bones cells were created before the flesh cells. So therefore and based on this concrete proof they built successful theories in curing the genetic disorders.

And now you come outta no where and delete the whole list of the “best scientists” and instate yourself as the only scientist. And cancel their old and new theories and start a whole new one of your own that against the nature just cause you want to show off that you're Mr. scientist.

Koran's language is one of the richest languages in the world and that probably what makes it hard to learn in a way that makes you can understand every Arabic book you read. It's one of the most articulated languages. It may has a word that has plenty a lot of meanings and levels or a words that have specific meanings that only mean this particular thing in this particular situation in this particular place at this time at this spot and with this shape Etc. it's kinda so deep. so you need to check the exact meaning to each word.




Well I gotta tell you.. if this is divinely inspired it seems that whatever deity did the “inspiring” needs to go back to community college and take remedial Histology courses cause that’s not how a fetus actually develops (in any verterbrate species)


huh, the only one who needs to go back to the to community college and take remedial Histology courses in this forum is yourself!! As a matter of fact, you need to take courses in plenty a lot of things.

That's how the fetus develop but if you my dear developed otherwise because of the i dunno nuclear pollution maybe. however, that doesn't change fact of how the normal fetus do develop.




But I know.. none of what im saying is gonna matter and ur prolly gonna say.. “well even if the Quran is incorrect on the intricacies, that doesn’t matter.. the Quran is divinely inspired and ppl back then just didn’t have the tools or means to know even a hint of this type of stuff…”

Keep kidding urself… and worse.. keep being “intellectually dishonest” to yourself. its a religious trend that has been in existence since the dawn on monotheism

timbs


I'll never say Koran is incorrect Because the truth is your understanding is incorrect and incomplete. Having the tools or not or having the knowledge of this or not has nothing to do with Koran cuz Koran was never something made up by humans.

If the condition that i am in is called religious trend, what the hell do you call the condition that you're in? I don't think it's called Knowledge trend!!

My First Timbs
04-15-2006, 01:58 AM
lol..


how does one respond to such baffoonery?

how does one respond in a "rational manner" to an argument that clearly isnt rational and based on reason?

but nonetheless, i will respond, to sweet sista in due time.

but its obvious (and i truly mean no offense by this) but its obvious you have very little knowledge of how science works and what science is

in addition its obvious you are not objective in your thought processes.

sweet sista
04-15-2006, 02:17 AM
in addition its obvious you are not objective in your thought processes.


I ain't being objective?!

sometimes, it's really hard to be objective cuz then it's like you're aksin' me which one is right and which is wrong and then i can't say dis is right and dat is wrong cuz then you'll call me subjective.

How can a person be objective about what's right and wrong?
Truth and lie?
God and devil?

hey bro, think of dis!!^

My First Timbs
04-15-2006, 02:53 AM
I ain't being objective?!

sometimes, it's really hard to be objective cuz then it's like you're aksin' me which one is right and which is wrong and then i can't say dis is right and dat is wrong cuz then you'll call me subjective.

How can a person be objective about what's right and wrong?
Truth and lie?
God and devil?

hey bro, think of dis!!^

sista,

its actually very easy and simple
as long as one has a rational argument that can be verified and substantiated by positive evidence (not a lack of evidence) , then u dont have to worry about being subjective.

i still havent addressed your post above

but in a nutshell, your claims are of the type

"I dont know the answer to _______, thus there is a possibility of it being due to ________" ... thats irrational (its called an argument from ignorance)

another form of this type of reasoning is:

" ______ seems inexplicable, thus it has to be a result of _______"



you cant base your stance and argument on a lack of evidence.

My First Timbs
04-15-2006, 12:46 PM
HERES AN ARTICLE ON HIM
http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/03/30_t/ns_outloud30_ph_t.gif

When David Ray Griffin, noted theologian and professor emeritus at the Claremont School of Theology, first heard someone say that Sept. 11 was an inside job, he scoffed.

"I can remember my exact words. ... I said, 'I don't think that even the Bush administration could perpetrate such a thing,' " said Griffin, who has since written two books, "The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions About the Bush Administration and 9/11" and "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions,'' which dispute the official version of events. Specifically, Griffin believes that the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks.

Griffin began to delve into 9/11 conspiracy theories after looking at a time line of the events of Sept. 11, 2001 (by Paul Thompson, who later turned it into a book) on the Internet. He found himself swayed by the catalog of inconsistencies and strange coincidences.

When asked what the most compelling facts are to make the case that the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks, Griffin names three things. The behavior of Bush at the schoolhouse in Florida ("Secret Service should have whisked him out immediately if we're under attack but he stayed over 30 minutes. ... It's pretty clear evidence that they knew they wouldn't be attacked"), the strange pyrotechnics that brought down the World Trade Center ("fire has never brought down a steel high-rise building") and the poorly planned targeting of the West Wing of the Pentagon ("all the important people are in the East Wing -- it doesn't make any sense").

Not only that, Griffin points to historical evidence that the U.S. government would be capable of such a thing. Operation Northwoods, a plan concocted by the Pentagon in the '60s as a way of taking Castro from power, included ideas about how a terrorist attack on U.S. soil could provide a pretext for military action.

But why now? Griffin names the neoconservative think tank the Project for the New American Century as a motivating force. "Once you look at it, they have lots of motivation," he says. "It's what the neocons have been salivating about."

"The goals would be to get control of the world's oil and establish a new doctrine of pre-emptive warfare. That was a difficult sell before 9/11."

While many conspiracy theories have been passed around, it's been very easy to dismiss many of the theorists as, well, crazy. But Griffin comes to his controversial conclusions with lucidity and calm. He even sees a connection between his long-standing work as a theologian and his new position as a political writer.

"In both cases, the concern is for the good of the world as a whole. Those of us who believe in God believe that trashing the world is not what God wants."

David Ray Griffin speaks on "9/11: The Myth & the Reality." 7 p.m. today, Grand Lake Theater, 3200 Grand Ave., Oakland. (510) 452-3556. He also appears at 11:30 a.m. Mon.,Commonwealth Club, 595 Market St., S.F. (415) 597-6700. www.commonwealthclub.org (http://www.commonwealthclub.org). $15.

ive never read his bok on the alleged events surrounding sept 11. however, I have heard of David Ray Griffin before, (due to the fact that he was one of the main individuals leading an afront against the conservative christian fundamentalist movement)

I also admire his attempt at reconiling supernaturalism and experience , an in addition religion and science.

regarding sept 11, and the conspiracy i really cant comment because i havent read his books. I cant say if i believe that the book is "just another conspiracy theory".. or not until i read te book . Thanks for showing me this... I will read the book next weekend.

peace

My First Timbs
04-15-2006, 12:56 PM
def de la rev

Quote:

has mankind in it's helm at self evolution, hindered the evolution of this planet? and if not how so?



peace and thanks for the question

I do not believe that mankind is "in a helm or purpose driven conscious act at self evolution". As i said earlier, it is impossible to control your evolution without controlling or changing the environmental stressors that drive evolution. (of course im talking for a purely biological standpoint)

however, from a cultural and social standpoint of the global symbiosis. (which i believe is this crux of your query), it must be known that, in our efforts to progress humanity via various different means (technological, social, ideal changes, etc), as long as the "overall" "long run" fruits of this conscious attempt at "progression" lead to more detriment than benefit, (which i truly believe is occuring in some ways), then we have indeed hindered the "postive growth of the planet" (on a social symbiotic level)..however i wouldnt say that we have hindered the "evolution" of the planet. because evolution merely just means change over time. (it doesnt address whther that change is beneficial or detrimental) a change is a change.

My First Timbs
04-15-2006, 01:49 PM
There are many eukaryotes that seem to do things rather similar to certain prokaryotes. There are photosynthesizing eukaryotic algae as well as prokaryotic autotrophs, and there are both eukaryotic slime molds and fungi and prokaryotic myxobacteria.

All in all, there is a great diversity of ways of life on both sides. I'm not sure if I'm being very clear but I guess that these similar-looking forms must be doing something quite differently. Eukaryotes are slower at growing and reproducing, so they must compensate somehow. Perhaps there really are some significant differences in the ecological roles, in the life cycles, for instance.

My question has to do with evolution also in the following sense. Why did eukaryotes evolve and diversify before they gave rise to complex multicellular forms (made possible by their more complicated workings)? Eukaryotes could do things that prokaryotes couldn't, but what were these?

Great question. You were indeed very clear with your question.

The diversity of life (in comparing prokaryotes to eukaryotes) is quite fascinating. As you perfectly stated , eukaryotes are generally slower at growth and reproduction. But it must be said here that eukaryotes do indeed compensate for this slow growth and reproduction.

Meaning, the “trade off” for increased complexity and adaptive ecological specialization is a use of more resources and on average a slower rate of reproduction and growth (growth is a relative and sometimes subjective term).

Regarding differences in ecological roles of prokaryotes vs eukaryotes, it must be understood that different organisms specialize for different ecological roles (niches). Simply stated, different roles or niches require and adamantly demand different levels of complexity.

For example, being a single celled cyanobacterium (such as the prokaryotic blue green algae), doesn’t require a lot of complexity (as dictated by the niches put in place by mother nature) . the cyanobacterium (blue green algae) reproduces primarily by binary fission, it creates its own food, can perform nitrogen fixation, and primarily is non mobile. Thus, having an ecological role or niche of simply soaking up sunlite while floating on the ponds surface doesn’t require much.. so in essence the prokaryotic blue green alage (cyanobacterium) is supremely adapted and will thrive in this niche with no “reason” to change, improve or evolve.

My question has to do with evolution also in the following sense. Why did eukaryotes evolve and diversify before they gave rise to complex multicellular forms (made possible by their more complicated workings)? Eukaryotes could do things that prokaryotes couldn't, but what were these?

Eukaryotes evolved from prokaryotes (such as for example the prokaryotic photosynthetic cyanobacteria). The “earliest” eukaryotes are pretty much very prokaryotic! (as discussed, being prokaryotic has supreme advantages, thus it is expected that early eukaryotes that are a bit more complex than prokaryotes (but still posses echoes of many of the successful prokaryotic mechanisms) will indeed thrive and diversify to fill all of the new ecological niches available due to them now existing on the planet. This is why and how the earliest eukaryotes diversified rapidly into

*Some being gram negative (just like some prokaryotes)

*Some still possessing forms or derivatives of photosynthetic processes

* although now a bit more complex (due to having more than one cell, the earliest diversified eukaryotes were still primarily non mobile) immobility is a great trait if one needs to be complex but not sacrifice energy constraints


Most importantly, eukaryotes had an advantage because they could indeed due things that prokaryotes couldn’t. The most important being regulation and controil of their own body processes via mitochondria (or proto mitochondria, a golgi apparatus and other organelles such as chloroplasts for plants.)…note.. (the evolution of organelles is a completely other highly complex topic)

The eukaryotic lifestyle has supreme advantages over the prokaryotic life style! The main things that early eukaryotes could do that prokaryotes couldn’t were things such as:

Actively deal with competetion

Deal with environmental changes

Be highly specialized

With the addition of a membrane bound nucleus, early eukaryotes had the advantage over prokaryotes of having a lot more DNA (which gives the ability for more evolution into even more complex organisms)

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-15-2006, 04:06 PM
PEACE Timbs thanks for the reply...Glad I could spark your interest ....Thats why we all post in KTL...PeacecaeP

sweet sista
04-16-2006, 01:52 AM
In the Holy Koran there is a verse where Allah “God” speaks about the stages of man's embryonic development.

{We created man from an extract of clay. Settlement, firmly fixed. Then we made the drop into an alaqa (leech, suspended thing, and blood clot), then we made the alaqa into a mudghah (chewed substance)...} (Koran, 23:12-14)

Literally, the Arabic word alaqah has three meanings:
(1) leech, (2) suspended thing, and (3) blood clot.

In comparing a leech to an embryo in the alaqah stage, we find similarity between the two, 2 as we can see in figure 1. Also,the embryo at this stage obtains nourishment from the blood of the mother,similar to the leech,which feeds on the blood of others.

The second meaning of the word alaqah is “suspended thing”. This is what we can see in figure 2 and 3 , the suspension of the embryo, during the alaqah stage, in the womb of the mother.


http://up5.w6w.net/upload/16-04-2006/w6w_20060416014348d9be24e1.gif


http://up5.w6w.net/upload/15-04-2006/w6w_20060415233644c1fe85b8.gif







The third meaning of the word alaqah is “blood clot.” We find that the external appearance of the embryo and its sacs during the alaqah stage is similar to that of a blood clot. This is due to the presence of relatively large amounts of blood present in the embryo during this stage (see figure 4). Also during this stage, the blood in the embryo doesn't circulate until the end of the third week Thus, the embryo at this stage is like a clot of blood.


http://up5.w6w.net/upload/15-04-2006/w6w_2006041523400774c69ead.gif

So the three meanings of the word alaqah correspond accurately to the descriptions of the embryo at the alaqah stage.

The next stage mentioned in the verse is mudghah stage. The Arabic word mudghah means “chewed substance.” If one were to take a piece of gum and chew it in his or her mouth and then compare it to with an embryo at the mudghah stage, we would conclude that the embryo at the mudghah stage is similar in appearance to a chewed substance. This is because of the somites at the back of the embryo that “somewhat resemble teethmarks in a chewed substance” (see figure 5 and 6)

http://up5.w6w.net/upload/15-04-2006/w6w_2006041523425176d38aa8.gif
http://up5.w6w.net/upload/15-04-2006/w6w_200604152346432902ac56.gif

How could prophet Muhammad – may Allah's peace be upon him- have possibly known all this about fourteen hundred ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment and powerful microscope which did not exist at that time? Hamm and Leeuwenhoek were the first scientists to observe the human sperm cells (spermatozoa) using an improved microscope in 1677 (more than 1000 years after prophet Muhammad -may Allah's peace be upon him-). They mistakenly thought that the sperm cell contained a miniature performed human being that grew when it was deposited in the female genital tract.



Professor Emeritus Keith L. Moore is one of the world's most prominent scientists in the field of anatomy and embryology and the author of the book entitled The developing Human, which has been translated into eight languages. This book is a scientific reference work and was chosen by a special committee in the United States as the best book authored by one person. Dr. Keith Moore is a professor Emeritus of Anatomy and Cell Biology at the University of Toronto, Toronto, Canada. There, he was Associate Dean of Basic Sciences at the Faculty of Medicine and for 8 years was the Chairman of the Department of the Anatomy. In 1984, he received the most distinguished award presented in the field of anatomy in Canada, the J.C.B Grant Award from the Canadian Association of Anatomists. He has directed many international Associations, such as the Canadian and the American Association of Anatomists and the Council of the Union of the Biological Sciences.

In 1981, during the seventh Medical Conference in Dammam, Saudi Arabia, Professor Moore said: “It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements from Koran about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God”

Consequently, professor Moore was aksed the following question: “Does this mean that you believe that the Koran is the word of God?” He replied: “I find no difficulty accepting this.”

During one conference, Professor Moore stated: “....Because the staging of human embryo is complex, owing to the continuous process of change during development, it is proposed that a new system of classification could be developed using the terms mentioned in the Koran and “sunnah”(what Muhammad said,did, or approved of). The proposed system is simple, comprehensive, and conforms with present embryological knowledge. The intensive studies of the Koran and hadeeth ( reliably transmitted reports by the prophet Muhammad's companions of what he said, did or approved of) in the last four years have revealed system for classifying human embryos that is amazing since it was recorded in the seventh century A.D. Although Aristotle, the founder of the science of embryology, realized that chick embryos developed in stages from his studies of hen's eggs in the fourth century B.C., he did not give any details about these stages. As far as it is known from the history of embryology, little was known about the staging and the classification of human embryos until the twentieth century. For this reason, the descriptions of the human embryos in the Koran can not be based on scientific knowledge in the seventh century. The only reasonable conclusion is: these descriptions were revealed to Muhammad from God. He could not have known such details because he was an illiterate man with absolutely no scientific training.” and he was known among his people for being honest, modest, truthful and trusty.

Jaemillz
04-16-2006, 02:16 AM
i think this pretty much sums it up





The Quran is far from miraculous or exquisite or mind boggling in its description of alleged biological processes. The alleged accuracy of description of "embryology" (if u wanna call it that) in the quran is far from special. Everything that is “explained” as a form of embryology (before scientific advancement) can easily (very very easily) be explained by the most simplistic observation of living creatures and the natural processes of life…



Muslims of the 6th and 7th century (the alleged time of Muhammed), would damn well know (just as every human who has ever been on the planet and reached sexual maturity..or watched sexually mature creatures other than humanity) that procreation is only possible when there is a “propulsion of fluid or as they say "nutfah")… so strike one against the claim that this is evidence that the Quran is divinely inspired… nothing special here…….its nothing but a direct observation.. whats so divine about it?….nothing





Now u must ask yourself honestly.. is any of this evidence of divine inspiration? Is any of this evidence that something magical must have going on in the 6th century for people to “know this”?

The answer u get when u honestly answer those questions is a hard and loud NO !

Humans have had some form or sort of experience with "embryological development" for hundreds of thousands of years (since the dawn of civilization) .. and as for the whole magical , awe inspiring claim of “clot”.. any human would who has ever observed nature (or unfortunately has had experience with a miscarriage (or even a heavy menstrual cycle ) would describe a “fetal conceptus” as blood clot like)! This isn’t rocket science (it isn’t even science… its called natural observation and conjecture !

Now u must ask yourself honestly again.. is any of this evidence of divine inspiration? Is any of this evidence that something magical must have been going on in the 6th century for people to “know this”?

The answer u get when u honestly answer those questions is a hard and loud NO !

But wait! It gets even better! The Quran’s attempt at “embryology” states (as I noted above) that basically

Step 1) nutfah gushes out ....presumably into the female
Step 2) this fusion of fluids causes a clot of tissue to begin to form (leech like in appearance)

Step 3) the clot like tissue grows into a bigger lump

Step 4) the lumpy mess grows bones

Step 5) the lumpy bony “thing” is then finally wrapped in a covering of skin/flesh

Well I gotta tell you.. if this is divinely inspired it seems that whatever deity did the “inspiring” needs to go back to community college and take remedial Histology courses cause that’s not how a fetus actually develops (in any verterbrate species)

The genesis of the brain and chordata (spinal column) occur concurrently in vertebrate development! The brain obviously isn’t bone.. and it obviously isn’t “a flesh covering”.. yet the Quran doesn’t account for this ! Bones are not made first and then a flesh covering is made.. it simply doesn’t occur that way. Flesh is actually made “first” and bone is subsequently developed and lags behind.

But I know.. none of what im saying is gonna matter and ur prolly gonna say.. “well even if the Quran is incorrect on the intricacies, that doesn’t matter.. the Quran is divinely inspired and ppl back then just didn’t have the tools or means to know even a hint of this type of stuff…”




sista,

its actually very easy and simple
as long as one has a rational argument that can be verified and substantiated by positive evidence (not a lack of evidence) , then u dont have to worry about being subjective.

i still havent addressed your post above

but in a nutshell, your claims are of the type

"I dont know the answer to _______, thus there is a possibility of it being due to ________" ... thats irrational (its called an argument from ignorance)

another form of this type of reasoning is:

" ______ seems inexplicable, thus it has to be a result of _______"



you cant base your stance and argument on a lack of evidence.

just because u dont understand how muhammed knew stuff back then, how does that translate to "allah taught him"

sweet sista
04-16-2006, 03:17 AM
How can an illiterate man doesn’t know how to read and to write, know things of this nature?

Science was the last thing on his people’s mind at the time.

Even if I assumed that they were interested in science, It would have been such basic things not things that could’ve been known only these days.

That’s how it’s translated to “Allah taught him”

plus,
check the Koran for more info

Visionz
04-16-2006, 03:35 AM
I believe in God but don't doubt the wisdom of the ancients. We're still not sure how they managed to build the pyramids in Egypt.

Jaemillz
04-16-2006, 03:53 AM
How can an illiterate man doesn’t know how to read and to write, know things of this nature?

Science was the last thing on his people’s mind at the time.

Even if I assumed that they were interested in science, It would have been such basic things not things that could’ve been known only these days.

That’s how it’s translated to “Allah taught him”

plus,
check the Koran for more info


no

thats how its translates into

"you dont know how they knew it"

sweet sista
04-16-2006, 04:25 AM
no

thats how its translates into

"you dont know how they knew it"

my goodness!!
okay why don't YOU tell me how they knew it?!

sweet sista
04-16-2006, 04:29 AM
I believe in God but don't doubt the wisdom of the ancients. We're still not sure how they managed to build the pyramids in Egypt.


i don't doubt the wisdom of the ancients at all. as a matter of fact, i believe that every civilization was good at something. however,they were great in kinda specific major. No one can be good at everything!

Jaemillz
04-16-2006, 10:42 AM
my goodness!!
okay why don't YOU tell me how they knew it?!


u still dont understand logic do ya?

the issue isnt about me proving or answering how they knew it !

the issue is whether u or anyone else can PROVE that it was ALLAH who inspired them!

how old are u?

Aqueous Moon
04-16-2006, 12:47 PM
^ lmao...I have been wondering about her age, also.

Just because it seems like she is real young.

Soul Controller
04-16-2006, 12:51 PM
i had fun with her in the past.. then i gave up :(

nightwolf
04-16-2006, 05:53 PM
who shot JFK, ive been wondering that for yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears

num2son
04-16-2006, 06:02 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

Do u believe is this?

nightwolf
04-16-2006, 06:09 PM
has nothing to do with JFK

TUCO
04-16-2006, 11:39 PM
doesnt???? u sure???

sweet sista
04-17-2006, 02:00 AM
^ lmao...I have been wondering about her age, also.

Just because it seems like she is real young.



i had fun with her in the past.. then i gave up :(

goodness! some one pissed at me!


u still dont understand logic do ya?

the issue isnt about me proving or answering how they knew it !

the issue is whether u or anyone else can PROVE that it was ALLAH who inspired them!

how old are u?




bu bin bon bundindan bundic?, bu ba?

i still dont understand logic?!!

ha! i'll tell you what is the issue, you obiously not interested in da truth so you enjoy making yerself a pain in de a**.

and yeah what's up wit da whole talk bout ma age?!
what dat has 2 do wit da truth?

Visionz
04-17-2006, 02:06 AM
are they right in assuming that you're young ^? I'm not tryin to hate, I'm just curious. At least you know my age. Tit-for-tat?

sweet sista
04-17-2006, 02:22 AM
hehehe yep but you know "young" is something different for different people. some will consider you young some won't.

Visionz
04-17-2006, 02:27 AM
so what's your age?

sweet sista
04-17-2006, 11:06 AM
was dat da quetion you wanted ta aks in da first place but it's' like you didn't want to show so?
hehe
i'm 21

Soul Controller
04-17-2006, 12:00 PM
lol i aint pissed at u
i never was,
i said i gave up replying to what u said, as
u refused to look deeper or research deeper,
so u was stuck with ur beliefs,

it doesnt hurt to read or find stuff out that go against ur views.
as it opens ur eyes... then u can make ur own mind up,
not like u havnt now, but u have to see, why ur beliefs, are held as they are... and who indoctrined u with them beliefs.. was it the education system? your folks who wanted to follow the same religion as them,.?

im not having a go sweet sista.
but u can never goto deep.
the deeper u go, the better understanding it is for yourself.

-Wun-

sweet sista
04-17-2006, 01:18 PM
it doesnt hurt to read or find stuff out that go against ur views.
as it opens ur eyes... then u can make ur own mind up,
not like u havnt now, but u have to see, why ur beliefs, are held as they are... and who indoctrined u with them beliefs.. was it the education system? your folks who wanted to follow the same religion as them,.?



i'll tell you what hurts,
it hurts to know so damn well what is the truth. and you know how it'll help everyone. yet you don't seem to be able to help the ones you're more concerned about.


but u have to see, why ur beliefs, are held as they are... and who indoctrined u with them beliefs.. was it the education system? your folks who wanted to follow the same religion as them,.?

maybe that did has an effect on me but very very little. anyway, when you grow up and through different experiences you start to measure things and to test those beliefs.

it doesnt hurt to read or find stuff out that go against my views cuz i'm just a human. However, there are things that natural to figure and to see some people doubt about them. i think this is unjust for their own sake.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 10:20 AM
in my prespective, it ain't possible that "god" is just a human that evolved down a different path .it ain't logical.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 10:30 AM
cuz humans have weaknesses and God doesn't. it ain't suitable to a God to have weaknesses. I mean humans don't only have physical weaknesses but psycological weaknesses too. and if God have all that, what makes him God? what makes him different than humans? absolutely nothing.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 10:40 AM
No, cuz he doesn't have any.

Soul Controller
04-18-2006, 10:41 AM
the mythical image of god u have in ur mind
has no weakness's

indoctrinating the young is so
:(

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 10:47 AM
you're measuring God's abilities by the same yardsticks that you use to measure the humans' abilities. you see, you have weaknesses. so you suppose that it's the same to God. and that ain't true.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 10:58 AM
i would call the fact that eh can't even keep his own planet under control a weakness.
or ignorance on his part to think that people would be able to take care of the planet.


legato,
you see God does control everything but the thing is, he gives humans the freedom to pick whatever they like. If i supposed that he didn't control everything in a way he ain't lettin' us do anything wrong or anything at all. are we goin' ta like it? i'll talk about myself: i won't.

it's the sense of humanity and the sense of experience in everything we do.

He ain't ignorant. He can't be, he is the most-knowledgable. He knows it all. He control the universe and the cells in our bodies and etc. small or big.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 11:17 AM
He does, it's just some people don't notice.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 11:26 AM
but god made us to be like him did he not? god gives you the paths to wisdom does he not?.


He created us to be good human beings. He loves us so much that's why he is telling us to stay away from what hurt us. We maybe think "i like dis, i like dat how somethin' i like would ever hurt me"

later, alot of the things we do, DO really hurt us. We just go like "nah, i love doin' it. i ain't gonna stop"

However, he knows best what is good for us.


if his words and will were so full proof half the shit that goes on wouldnt be goin on.

no that's what we sometimes think cuz we feel so desperate and maybe hopeless to see all bad things happen ta us and to the people we love and all those who hurt us aren't getting any sort of panishment whatsoever.

the truth is Allah is testing us and them. You see, when he is lettin' those "bad guys" do dis and dat ta us. He is preparing hell to them. and before hell he does panish them but maybe we just don't see them getting panish.

the other part, it's test to us. He either wants you to see the truth
"that could be something you do and you need to stop doin' or something you believe in"

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 11:40 AM
i notice, and what iv notice is that he doesnt help people with anything, any and everytime something bad happen people make excuses for god, everytime something good happens they throw they hands up and give him all the praire. how can you possibly see if he's really a being without mistake if you've already tripped your mind into thinking he has none?


honey, i'm aware of what alot of people going through and i know that it seems like givin' God excuses. but it's really not the case. cuz you should try sometimes, when you're alone or something and think of your life. Remember all the situations you went through and when you thought that there is no way out. suddenly outta nowhere the help came up and you got outta trouble. who did that? Allah did it. i wish i could remind you of all the things you went through and all what god did to you. but it's hard cuz i don't know you and those kind of things you know them better than others. cuz it was you who went through it.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 12:22 PM
ion know i just can't get down with all that.
to be all powerful and this n that but yet to let me people die for no reason whatsover, babys in toilets, elderly people being raped and killed, i mean these are your creations and u let this happen to them?
shit i get pissed off when somebody drops my ps2 and i aint even make that mutha fucka.


sad, i wish if i could pull your viewer a little to make you see the side i see. even if it's just for a second.

Allah hates what's goin' on to those babys or elderly or any innocent human being. Allah hates who hurt them and gets so angry at them.

Allah created the good people to face the bad people. and he gave us the proper system to use to stop such ugly crimes. however, those who don't follow that system, follow their own system "the system they claimed it's the best cuz it was set by the experts" which is so far proved it ain't working and those crimes are the biggest live evidence for that!

This case like the case of a patient "society" who is given a specific medicine "tha man's system" that doesn't seem to improve his condition but it makes it worse. Instead of trying to use different medicine, "Allah's system" they use the same old one. So the patient doesn't only have one side effect but a double and on that double, double some more!

The future is options and choices. some of what we're going through is because of our bad decisions.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 12:57 PM
i know about the moment you think of, the only thing was i was never one to say thank god for getting me out of a situation, or knowing what to do in a certain situation to make the best decision. i always gave credit to me, my family or friends or however may have helped me and pass experience than iv had or other people have had that taught me yo rethink that lil. god never really did much, and it's no mystery indeed it aint.

i'm happy 4u cuz you have such a good family and friends.

umm,
who gave you such a good family? who put you among good folks that you can learn from their experiences?


Did your friends/family give you your sight? Dis they give you your hearing? Did they give you your heart? your mind? your soul? your humanity?

Alot of kids in the world have no families and some have but it their existence is the same as thier absence. and some have the worst type of families, their own family hurt them. there are kids who were killed/molested by members of their own family!

i remember this story that i heard somewhere, there was a man who was lost in the sea. he was praying to Godto save him. suddenly, he saw a little boat. The man on the boat aksed him to join him. but the the first man said "No, i'm waiting 4 God to help me". Later, a vessel arrived and the captain aksed him to come with'em. He said the same thing. finally, a helicopter flew above him and drop a life line and he just repeated the same thing.

brutha, God ain't gonna come to you in person. He will send you help in his so many different ways.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 01:19 PM
not sure if somebody has asked this already but has there been any evidence as to what the next stage of mans mental evolution will be?

and also in your perspective is it possible that "god" is just a human that evolved down a different path? or adleast would it be logical to think so?

The next stage of man's "mental evolution" is uncertain, but if current trends continue (by trends im talking about the environmental stressors that drive evolution....remember, evolution is only driven by environmental stress)

In addition, i dont like the tern "stage" because your question unknowingly implies that evolution only occurs in spurts and stages (when meanwhile it is going on right now... all the time.. it never stops)

but i totally understand your question.

If current trends were to continue (meaning decreased need for physical exertion, coupled with an increased use and reliance on computers), it is plausible that man will evolve to not actually need a physical body (in the sense we have today)!

now i know this sounds weird, but its totally plausible. as time goes on with a decrease in need for physical strength, a decrease in need for physical "travel" and decrease in need for a voice box (look we are communicating right now without use of our voicebox!), humanity will adapt to this lifestyle the most efficient way possible. that being a total decrease and resorbtion of all appendages not readily in use.

there are echoes of this occuring due to the current migration of the human thumb moving closer to the index finger. (it has moved approx half a millimeter in about 70 years..)

metally, without having much of a physical body to control and "keep maintenance of", brain functioning that was normally totally dedicated to certain aspects of the central nervous system that controlled voluntary actions may be lost or even better, be adapted to new more higher mental abilities.. what those abilities will and can be is anybodies guess (telepathy maybe???)


as for "god" being a higher form of evolved homo sapien..i really cant comment on that because i dont c how it would work (from a biological standpoint)

by this "god concept" are u referring to an evolved form of sapien that evolved to a point where he/she became invisible and able to manipulate the forces of nature an reality and able to cheat death?? interesting.. but i dont c how it would work.

there would have to be a living population of these homo sapiens (or relatives of homo sapiens) that at one point were reproducing to yield forth our current "god".

there would be evidence of these beings existing in some way shape or form (not that a lack of evidence makes it impossible), its just that i cant address that issue from a scientific standpoint. but its interesting and fascinating nontheless.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 01:36 PM
ok as far as the god questions let me ask you this, do you think it possible for humans or whatever anything to evolve into a form or condition that allow them to not die?

true indeed.. its totally possible.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 01:52 PM
slowly but surely we all see legato figure out the meaning of life...


;)


is it possible for a single creature to evolve solo? like without reproduction?


unfortunately no. there woul have to be some sort or form of reprodution to allow for evolutionary process. evolution only works on populations of creatures "at a time".. not the individual.

............................ wait a sec...............

UNLESS, an individual is "born" with a genetic mutation that yields a biological anamoly.... and if that biological anamoly was that it altered the organisms mitochondria and ATP usage , altered the latic acid cycle in anearobic respiration (that would allow cells to never tire and continue in the absence of available oxygen)

in addition there would have to be a mutation at the same time that would allow cels to continue to divide and replicate an infinite amount of times! (the reason why all creatures die is because cells can only divide a certain number of times.. that number being about 50.. this is why we "age and die")

legato, i want u to know that there are indeed creatures out there that DO NOT DIE ! for example, the "Tetrahymena".

this organism is one celled and basically lives forever. The one cell doesnt live an infinite amount of times, but even more fascinating, the one celled creature has the ability to replicate itself exactly (by division) and the resultant new cell is an identical copy of the first iteration of the creature with a new lifespan that ultimately will never end.

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 02:01 PM
iv seen the side you see sistah it's just that side made no sense to me. the idea of believing just to believe and trying to turn into you can into a praire in order to justify the existance of somebody who really does nothing in the first place just didnt appeal to me.



i ain't tryin' to turn you into me not at all it's just try to make you see what i'm tryin' ta say.


i mean there's always a possibility im wrong and everything could be part of a greater scheme of god. but i highly doubt it.

humph,


and your right things are they way they are because of our decisions, but just because your child makes a bad decision doesnt mean you have to leave them to rott. thats basically what god did, left us to rott.


Here it shows where is the real problem and how cancered it is. you see it's the mistake of that system. some people make a decision that maybe makes others pay its cost.

example: if a man raped a little girl, "the man's system" is going to say "send him to jail for maybe 12 years or something. In most cases, that criminal get back to his old self and do the same things he used to do. On the other hand, the life of that little girl almost distroyed. she may still think of what happend long ago even if she was grown. these kind of things never gone. they don't only effect on her life but her whole family.

it's the system of "the experts" . The system of "god" has different solution to this. which i know would stop those criminals or at least makes them think twice before committing a crime.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 02:05 PM
i ain't tryin' to turn you into me not at all it's just try to make you see what i'm tryin' ta say.



humph,




Here it shows where is the real problem and how cancered it is. you see it's the mistake of that system. some people make a decision that maybe makes others pay its cost.

example: if a man raped a little girl, "the man's system" is going to say "send him to jail for maybe 12 years or something. In most cases, that criminal get back to his old self and do the same things he used to do. On the other hand, the life of that little girl almost distroyed. she may still think of what happend long ago even if she was grown. these kind of things never gone. they don't only effect on her life but her whole family.

it's the system of "the experts" . The system of "god" has different solution to this. which i know would stop those criminals or at least makes them think twice before committing a crime.

and what is that system? are u referring to another unverifiable claim?

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 02:08 PM
i feel we are jumping the gun, lets first get an idea of your concept of god

i have a few simple questions for Sweet Sista that should solve everything.

1) is God "perfect" ?
2) is god all merciful ?
3) Is God all "just" (meaning ultimately justice is served)
4) Is god immutable (meaning he/she/it is "unchanging"?)

be careful with your answers

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 02:21 PM
thats pretty dope, it's like natural cloning.

Has the Tetrahymena evolved any from it's original form?

no, evidence for the tetrahymena goes back to about the cambrian period. and it hasnt changed since in any noticeable form.

this is the downside to self replication! with self replication (just like asexual reproduction) ...think of it like this:

its like playing roulette but instead of having multiple chips and choosing to bet on a number, a color or odd or even, u are stuck betting on red only. thus no matter how many times the "wheel" of nature is spun, u are stuck with betting on red ... u will not change !u cant change ! because each "spin" (ie each replicate of yourself) will be exactly like u were !

the tetrahymena has not changed because it has been betting on red for millions of years, and amazingly, red keeps working out !

but guess what inevitably will happen...... a new casino hostess will take the "wheel" and spin it in such a way that the ball lands on "black".... what will the tetrahymena do in this case.. it will do nothing.. it will die and go extinct!

so now we see, self replication (that leads to a form of immortality) is only beneficial if the current envitonmental stressors favor it ! the instance that the environmental stressors change, you ar flat out of luck because u bet all your money on one chip/color...

this is why sexual reproduction was so beneficial.. becaue its like playing roulette and putting down 50 dollars worth of chips on the board each spin (25 chips from the papa and 25 chips from the mama)..regardless of how the wheel is spun.. u will win in some way.

(also note that the terahymena isnt truly immortal).. it will indeed die if eaten ,, squashed or poisoned or infected with a virus.

Aqueous Moon
04-18-2006, 02:32 PM
Timbs...Is it a possibility that apes came from humans instead of the other way around?

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 02:37 PM
i contribute my eye sight an all that to my parents having good genes.
yup they were able to create a whole human..

some kids don't have the ability to see though their parents do. if a child is given his/her sight from his/her parents. then why when he/she lose it. the parents can't get it back? no matter how much they love him/her?

why there are impotent people? Don't they have the ability to create a human like others?


the thing is im not waiting for god to save me, nore do i think he would.
if im about to drown best believe im gonna try and swim first.
im gonna get shot, damnitall you bets up try to jump out of the bullets path. i aint waitin for no miracle dattebayo...

God doesn't expect you to wait for a miracle to happen. He wants you to use the intelligence he has given.


and if god placed me with such good parents and that was his will, then why would he place other kids with parents that molest them, beat them and abuse them? i mean shit them kids is fucked from the start.

Allah knows previously and before that child to those bad parents is born. That they ain't gonna be good enough to raise him properly and they may hurt him as well. However, here you can see the ultimate justice of Allah. If he wasn't to allow some parents to have kids. then, one day those parents will complain to God saying that he didn't give them the chance to raise the kids and he was unjust by doing that.

example:
a crimianl can't be arrested before the cops know for sure that he committed a crime. Even if the cops felt that he is about to committ it, they can't arrest him until he does the action. i mean if they did, the criminal is going to say "i didn't do it"

sweet sista
04-18-2006, 02:45 PM
so unjust but you know when Allah takes something from you, he give you a substitute in other thing.

like the blind's hearing. Allah took his sight but he gave him a strong hearing instead and so other things.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 02:46 PM
Timbs...Is it a possibility that apes came from humans instead of the other way around?

this would be impossible due to our current genetic makeup and the current genetic makeup of modern apes, in addition to th etime contraints for this to have occured.

furthermore, it must be known and understood that humans didnt come from the apes we see today, its just that we share a common ancestor with modern african apes.( lowland gorillas and chimps mainly).

the common ancestor that we share with african apes lived about 6 million years .. from that point on there was split.

one group went on to develop into what we now know as the chimpanzees and gorillas and the other group of primates went on to develop into what we call humans.

it would impossible for apes to come from humans because we would see irrefutable genetic evidence of this

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 02:57 PM
so unjust but you know when Allah takes something from you, he give you a substitute in other thing.

like the blind's hearing. Allah took his sight but he gave him a strong hearing instead and so other things.

thats not true at all.

in actuality, it is very very rare for a disabled orgaism to have one or more other senses compensate for the disabled sense by increased functioning or acuity.... thats not how it works!

and u attributing disability to "god taking his sight away" is even further disgusting and insulting.


God doesn't expect you to wait for a miracle to happen. He wants you to use the intelligence he has given.


interesting, so your saying that god wants us to use the intelligence he has given us right?

so am i to conclude that God is supremely happy with my ability to use my "god given" gift of intelligence and reasoning to come to a conclusion that he/she doesnt exist?

it has been argued very seriously in theology (at the graduate and doctorate level) that there is a strong possibility that if God exists he/she will be very proud of the atheist upon judgement.

the reason being that god allegedly empowered us with the great gift of intelligence and reasoning! And its obvious that God has left no observable positive evidence for his existence, so... with that said, it is argued that the Atheist will be rewarded at judgement for correctly using the gift of intelleigence and reason to come to the rational conclusion tha tthis god doesnt exist!

on the flipside, one could argue that the religionist (those who claim that God exists and claim to know so) will be frowned upon by god by neglecting to use the god given gift of reasoning and intelligence.

how do u feel about that argument sweet sista?

Aqueous Moon
04-18-2006, 03:00 PM
this would be impossible due to our current genetic makeup and the current genetic makeup of modern apes, in addition to th etime contraints for this to have occured.

furthermore, it must be known and understood that humans didnt come from the apes we see today, its just that we share a common ancestor with modern african apes.( lowland gorillas and chimps mainly).

the common ancestor that we share with african apes lived about 6 million years .. from that point on there was split.

one group went on to develop into what we now know as the chimpanzees and gorillas and the other group of primates went on to develop into what we call humans.

it would impossible for apes to come from humans because we would see irrefutable genetic evidence of this

Gawd damn...Imma finish college and have a come back to this.

Thank you for your response, tho.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 03:00 PM
still waiting

i feel we are jumping the gun, lets first get an idea of your concept of god

i have a few simple questions for Sweet Sista that should solve everything.

1) is God "perfect" ?
2) is god all merciful ?
3) Is God all "just" (meaning ultimately he makes sure justice is served)
4) Is god immutable (meaning he/she/it is "unchanging"?)

be careful with your answers

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 03:10 PM
buy his book, shit is on point. i havnt even gotten to finish reading it yet because it's being passed around the fam, mom took it passed it to pops an shit. craziness.

i appreciate that legato

peace

Aqueous Moon
04-18-2006, 03:24 PM
buy his book, shit is on point. i havnt even gotten to finish reading it yet because it's being passed around the fam, mom took it passed it to pops an shit. craziness.Unfortunately, I don't have the dollars to spare at the time.

I know that I didn't come from no form of ape or monkey...word up.

All the books that I have read put together have not convinced me of such.

Maybe his is different.

My First Timbs
04-18-2006, 03:31 PM
Unfortunately, I don't have the dollars to spare at the time.

I know that I didn't come from no form of ape or monkey...word up.

All the books that I have read put together have not convinced me of such.

Maybe his is different.

i respectfully ask.. what is it about human evolution theory do u find faulty?

or do u just reject it based on GP? if u just have it made up in ur mind for some reason that its insulting to lump humans in the same catergory as other primates,, then no, my book wont change your view point (because thats not a rational stance)

if u have some objection to human evolution due to a flaw, then yes, maybe the book could clarify.

it depends on your stance

whitey
04-18-2006, 03:34 PM
I know that I didn't come from no form of ape or monkey...word up.


you dont know ish about it. you only have preconcieved beliefs that are so dogmatic in your mind that they do not allow you to see the truth.

Aqueous Moon
04-18-2006, 03:55 PM
i respectfully ask.. what is it about human evolution theory do u find faulty?

or do u just reject it based on GP? if u just have it made up in ur mind for some reason that its insulting to lump humans in the same catergory as other primates,, then no, my book wont change your view point (because thats not a rational stance)

if u have some objection to human evolution due to a flaw, then yes, maybe the book could clarify.

it depends on your stance
Basically, it makes me think of the perfection of the human phenotype to adapt to it's envionment.

If you remove the environmental stress - then the Original human phenotype, can be at peace - ie. at one with it's environment.

Now...I'm not saying that micro level evolution does not take place - to the contrary, I am quite convinced that this is the norm in our universal experience on Earth.

However, there is a question as to which phenotype the genetic theory of marco evolution is based....

And, this brings me to another question, concerning the differences and evoultionary time frame in which Black and white people were discerened.

Simply put...who's first?

Aqueous Moon
04-18-2006, 03:57 PM
you dont know ish about it. you only have preconcieved beliefs that are so dogmatic in your mind that they do not allow you to see the truth.

Wrong!...ain't nothing dogmatic about it. I put thought and reflection into evrything I understand.

Or else I don't understand it...and in that case Iam not afraid to openly admit that I do not understand.

Everyone is not like you...

Aqueous Moon
04-18-2006, 04:22 PM
there is a difference between the evolution of a physical body
and
the appearance of divine intelligence in a physical body



that wasnt a question
more of a reminder

Word!...although,I am under the impression that man is divine and divine is manifested through man

sakk
04-18-2006, 05:18 PM
This is a literature question. Hopefully you can help me with a little vocabulary meaning issue.

Discuss the following statement. Think of "to" as the guarantor of
indirection insofar as it prevents the relation of transitivity while
being a sign of non-immediacy and meditation between the lover and
the beloved.

"I love to you means I maintain a relation of indirection to you. I
do not subjugate you or consume you. I respect you (as irreducible).
I hail you: in you I hail. I praise you: in you I praise. I give
you thanks: to you I give thanks for. . . . I bless you for. . . .
I speak to you, not just about something; rather I speak to you, not
so much this or that, but rather I tell to you."

Luce Irigary, "I Love to You," 536.


I cant figure out what my teacher means by transitivity. From what I understand, the passage refers to a lover failing to transition into one being love.

What do you think transitivity implies here?

I know this one seems out there but I wanted to give it a shot.

whitey
04-18-2006, 06:32 PM
Wrong!...ain't nothing dogmatic about it. I put thought and reflection into evrything I understand.

Or else I don't understand it...and in that case Iam not afraid to openly admit that I do not understand.

Everyone is not like you...


everyone does not think like me and thats true. and i think people can believe and think whatever they want. id just hope they would have an open mind and think about why the believe things.

im curious, how did you get into being 5% and thinking allah was the man?

sweet sista
04-19-2006, 01:58 AM
so when he puts a child in a possition that they will get molested, and then that child grows up mentally fucked up and goes off and molests other children, or their own children what was allahs give and take?

(1) Allah didn't like the kid to be put in any harmful situation but he gave his parents the choice to either choose good folks to be around their baby or not. and obviously they didn't care or they forgot or something like that.

The child is mentally f***ed up because of the choices either other made or he himself when he became a gown. and remember that Not all molested kids make the same bad decision. but some no matter how many options Allah gives them, they never take any of them when they grow up. they take what seem suitable for them maybe as a revenge for what happened when they were kids and they go and molest other kids. Allah did gave them a lot of options but they choose to go stray.

example, a kid who was molested by his uncle. His uncle was such a mutha f****ER who doesn’t have any bit of dignity or respect and he thinks like “i’m gonna do it, the kid ain’t gonna tell, no one will know and if they did they maybe won’t do anything about it and if they did and called the cops i’ll maybe deny that or maybe i’ll stay in jail for a little while then i’ll get out- BIG DEAL!!”

If we supposed that the uncle was arrested. here one of the options and it could be the first step in every choice he make. start new life. Teach your kid that what happened to him was a big mistake cuz his uncle was a man with no humanity or faith that prevent him doing what he did. and of course you so damn sorry for where tha hell have you been at that time!!

if The child “when he is grown” followed the choices that Allah gives him, he won’t end up as his uncle. cuz then he knows that no one should be judged for else’s crimes.

It’s tough but molesting other kids won’t make it any easier! It’s not only the kid’s job it’s the whole damn society’s. it’s a whole circle. Everyone has a job and Allah gave them those jobs but when they don’t do it. Don’t expect the circle to be perfect.

sweet sista
04-19-2006, 02:17 AM
thats not true at all.

in actuality, it is very very rare for a disabled orgaism to have one or more other senses compensate for the disabled sense by increased functioning or acuity.... thats not how it works!

and u attributing disability to "god taking his sight away" is even further disgusting and insulting.?


HEll, i talk to you like an intelligent human being and you insult your mind wit dis!

i really think that any one who has lost something has something else. Not necessarily physical things but could be spiritual things. not necessarily things one can observe in his own body if he has some illness, but in his family that takes care of him. etc.



interesting, so your saying that god wants us to use the intelligence he has given us right?

so am i to conclude that God is supremely happy with my ability to use my "god given" gift of intelligence and reasoning to come to a conclusion that he/she doesnt exist?

hehehe, you know God gives almost everyone intelligence that’s how he is so just. there are criminals who were intelligent. the point is how you’re going to use that? maybe He is going to let you do whatever you like with your intelligence, so later when you’re going to be aksed by Allah why did you do this? you have no excuse. you were intelligent enough to be aware of all your actions.

It’s not your intelligence that lead you to become non-believer. it’s the ignorance of something, the depression, arrogance, and other things but of course it’s not the intelligence!

people make plans for themselves to accomplish anything. some of them think like “if i ain’t going to complete my studies i’ll work with my friend” and some like “if i ain’t gonna have this party here, it has to be in someone’s house”
intelligent people usually have plans for all the possible options. i mean what is your plan if you found out that there is a God that you should've believed in but you obiously didn’t? whatcha gonna do? what is your plan then?

Allah gave the intelligence to see that he is there for you. you go too deep and think that will make you more intelligent when it really won’t make you any intelligent but it may turn you to someone doesn’t understand the simple facts and the simple evidences for God’s existence that just a little kid or a simple human being notices.





it has been argued very seriously in theology (at the graduate and doctorate level) that there is a strong possibility that if God exists he/she will be very proud of the atheist upon judgement.

the reason being that god allegedly empowered us with the great gift of intelligence and reasoning! And its obvious that God has left no observable positive evidence for his existence, so... with that said, it is argued that the Atheist will be rewarded at judgement for correctly using the gift of intelleigence and reason to come to the rational conclusion tha tthis god doesnt exist!

on the flipside, one could argue that the religionist (those who claim that God exists and claim to know so) will be frowned upon by god by neglecting to use the god given gift of reasoning and intelligence.

i hope what i said above answers that!


how do u feel about that argument sweet sista?

honestly, i’m exhausted but never mind this is one of the things i always wanted it to do. i mean exhaustion doesn’t matter as long as the point of it is to help one another to see things.

sweet sista
04-19-2006, 02:35 AM
still waiting

hehehehe, now i’m gonna give ya what you've been waiting for.


1) is God "perfect" ? yes
2) is god all merciful ? yes

3) Is god immutable (meaning he/she/it is "unchanging"?) yes


4) Is God all "just" (meaning ultimately he makes sure justice is served)

you can't say someone ain't being just, JUST cuz he gave you the chance to be unjust. This is called the freedom of choice!

c’mon, you really gotta impress me!

dollabill
04-19-2006, 03:11 AM
Too Much Shit!!

Aqueous Moon
04-19-2006, 03:35 AM
everyone does not think like me and thats true. and i think people can believe and think whatever they want. id just hope they would have an open mind and think about why the believe things.

im curious, how did you get into being 5% and thinking allah was the man?

When I was a child I realized that there was no 'God'. But, I had grown up in a christain family with the idea that god was an omnipotent unseen being in 'heaven'.

However, that never made any sense to me...so I studied and read everything I could.

I got knowledge of self (the blackman is God) when I was 16 through studying the lost - found lessons of the N.O.I.....and then I became Earth (in the Nation of Gods and Earths) when I knowledged Supreme Mathematics at 18 so, I began to teach it to others.

Anyway, it was through study that I learned these things and yes, I am always learning.

sweet sista
04-19-2006, 06:35 AM
Too Much Shit!!

right on your face!

MoT
04-19-2006, 08:50 AM
so unjust but you know when Allah takes something from you, he give you a substitute in other thing.

like the blind's hearing. Allah took his sight but he gave him a strong hearing instead and so other things.

blinds hearing is too simple of an example... because one cant focus on the sight so he/she focuses more on the sound and trains the hearing.. or smell or feel or taste

i could agree with this only when u dont know when one loses something or everything(especially) i doubt that the one with the loss ultimately or every time has to get a substitute in something else...

to be more clear if you dont "deserve" a substitute or whatever it will be given to the one who does

and that i agree with this statement doesnt mean i belive it because i dont know how to prove it or displace it by evidence...

a question for Timbs:

in a document about evolution they said that humans used same tools (weapons, bowls for water, clothing etc.) and basically lived the same way of life for a very long period of time and that at a certain time in the past (not sure but +/- 50 000 years ago) that changed very fast and people started to "evolve faster" as in their way of life changed "drastically"... so how do you see this happening ? (of course if it did happen) and/or What could have caused this?

whitey
04-19-2006, 09:57 AM
When I was a child I realized that there was no 'God'. But, I had grown up in a christain family with the idea that god was an omnipotent unseen being in 'heaven'.

However, that never made any sense to me...so I studied and read everything I could.

I got knowledge of self (the blackman is God) when I was 16 through studying the lost - found lessons of the N.O.I.....and then I became Earth (in the Nation of Gods and Earths) when I knowledged Supreme Mathematics at 18 so, I began to teach it to others.

Anyway, it was through study that I learned these things and yes, I am always learning.


i always respect peoples believes. i respect them even more when i find out they have come about them on their own instead of being indoctrinated into them, weither i agree with what they have to say or not.

whitey
04-19-2006, 10:08 AM
a question for Timbs:

in a document about evolution they said that humans used same tools (weapons, bowls for water, clothing etc.) and basically lived the same way of life for a very long period of time and that at a certain time in the past (not sure but +/- 50 000 years ago) that changed very fast and people started to "evolve faster" as in their way of life changed "drastically"... so how do you see this happening ? (of course if it did happen) and/or What could have caused this?


clearly im not timbs but possibly if i remember correctly from some course heres some knowledge. this happend less than 50,000 years ago but explains some of what your talking about, the discovery of agriculture. which allowed him to settle and have a reliable source of food, and let him concentrate on other things. when man was a nomade and just wandering being a hunter gather, one he could not travel in very large groups because its hard to feed all of the people and two he had to primarily use most of his energy on finding his next meal.

when people settled down and started growing crops they could support larger bands of people, and the human mind started to thrive. he had more free time to do all sorts of things.


not sure if its the answer your looking for, but its part of it.

Aqueous Moon
04-19-2006, 11:50 AM
i always respect peoples believes. i respect them even more when i find out they have come about them on their own instead of being indoctrinated into them, weither i agree with what they have to say or not.
That's peace...

dollabill
04-19-2006, 03:22 PM
I respect the dolla!

ShaDynasty
04-19-2006, 04:29 PM
Is My First Timbs Really 61?

dollabill
04-19-2006, 04:39 PM
yes.

Aqueous Moon
04-19-2006, 04:44 PM
dolla, dolla, bill ya'll!

anyway...Timbs, wuz up?

hectis
04-19-2006, 04:49 PM
Is My First Timbs Really 61?

he can't be i say he has to be around 28 give or take a few years

dollabill
04-19-2006, 04:55 PM
No, I Lied that fag can't be that old.

whitey
04-19-2006, 08:20 PM
hah dude with a latino heat banner is calling people fag.

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 09:52 PM
HEll, i talk to you like an intelligent human being and you insult your mind wit dis!

I wasnt saying that your agument is insulting me. I was saying that your argument and reasoning that Allah (or whatever deity is popluar at that current time in history) will "take something away" from someone (ie their senses) is insulting to the recognized history of theology and the concept of God.

i really think that any one who has lost something has something else. Not necessarily physical things but could be spiritual things. not necessarily things one can observe in his own body if he has some illness, but in his family that takes care of him. etc.

i know that u really think that and want to believe that, but sadly its not the case. Most who are disabled in some form do not earn an extra sense or a heightened sense to compensate for their loss. and as for this "compensation" taking other forms (ie family support, spirituality etc etc) thats a cop out because every normal being has those things already in some shape or form.




hehehe, you know God gives almost everyone intelligence that’s how he is so just. there are criminals who were intelligent. the point is how you’re going to use that? maybe He is going to let you do whatever you like with your intelligence, so later when you’re going to be aksed by Allah why did you do this? you have no excuse. you were intelligent enough to be aware of all your actions.

here is where the religionist refues to acknowledge the obvious contradiction. This is formally known as the argument of fate/destiny vs freewill. It is impossible to have free will in a reality that is governed by an omnipotent and omniscient god who already has everyone's lives "pre plotted" out on his mighty chalkboard. Thus by religious logic (and the recognized history of theology), I, myself am nothing but a manifestation of God's divine plan. Are u arguing that it was not in Gods plan for me to be an Athiest? Are u arguing that i somehow deviated from the plan or are u even further arguing that there is no "plan"? Being a believer of a God, you are obligated to pick a stance and ride it out! You cant play both sids of the fence by believing that there is a plan and an all knowing god but at the same time come to an irrational conclusion that we have free will.

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 10:00 PM
hehehehe, now i’m gonna give ya what you've been waiting for.


1) is God "perfect" ? yes

okay, now we are getting somewhere!! so do you agree that perfection means "existing in a state of completeness so that nothing is requisite" (ie existing in a state of perfection , having no needs or wants) ? do u agree ?


2) is god all merciful ? yes

okay... now we are getting somewhere!, do u agree that all merciful refers to a punitive concept of " receiving less than what one actually deserves from their action or belief" ??

3) Is god immutable (meaning he/she/it is "unchanging"?) yes

okay, so do you agree that an immutable being cannot and will not change his or her stance, belief or aspect of conceptual existence (how u answer is very important!)


4) Is God all "just" (meaning ultimately he makes sure justice is served)

okay, do u agree that "all just" refers to a punitive or reward concept of "ensuring individuals receive exactly what they deserve?"



c’mon, you really gotta impress me!


lmao

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 10:12 PM
a question for Timbs:

in a document about evolution they said that humans used same tools (weapons, bowls for water, clothing etc.) and basically lived the same way of life for a very long period of time and that at a certain time in the past (not sure but +/- 50 000 years ago) that changed very fast and people started to "evolve faster" as in their way of life changed "drastically"... so how do you see this happening ? (of course if it did happen) and/or What could have caused this?

peace

there are several reasons for this.. This is formally known as the homo sapien cultural explosion and can be explained very easily. In a nutshell:

prior to the harnessing of certain aspects of reality, humans lived a relatively short life span. This is very important because with a short life span come certain things and with a longer life span come other things!

prior to the harnessing of fire and to the birth of agriculture, man had relatively short life spans (if u made it to about 25 years, u were lucky and an "elder")

Once fire and agriculture "jumped off", humans now lived alot longer. With longer life spans comes population growth. with larger populations and longer life spans, comes a focus shift! meaning a shift from a primary focus being on pure survival, to a more cultural social aspect. EVEN more importantly, with larger populations and longer life spans comes the ability to successfully gain more real world spacial and technical know how about the world u live in and objects that it contains!

Even more importantly, with a longer life span, comes the abiliy to properly pass on cultural knowledge to the next generation before you die!

Its alot more complicated than this, (and there are indeed other factors) but u get the idea.... human evolution (technological expansion and cultural evolution) are highly indebted to the birth of agriculture and the harnessing of fire)...

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 10:13 PM
clearly im not timbs but possibly if i remember correctly from some course heres some knowledge. this happend less than 50,000 years ago but explains some of what your talking about, the discovery of agriculture. which allowed him to settle and have a reliable source of food, and let him concentrate on other things. when man was a nomade and just wandering being a hunter gather, one he could not travel in very large groups because its hard to feed all of the people and two he had to primarily use most of his energy on finding his next meal.

when people settled down and started growing crops they could support larger bands of people, and the human mind started to thrive. he had more free time to do all sorts of things.


not sure if its the answer your looking for, but its part of it.

peace whitey! i didnt mean to steal ur thunder ! i didnt scroll down to see that u had already satisfactorily (and most accurately) answered the query! :thumbup:

num2son
04-19-2006, 10:23 PM
What is your shoe size for timbs?

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 10:29 PM
It’s not your intelligence that lead you to become non-believer. it’s the ignorance of something, the depression, arrogance, and other things but of course it’s not the intelligence!

.

thats a very bold baseless uninformed statement! (but very common in religionist beliefs)

I am not a non believer because I am ignorant of the believer or concept of one.. if anything, i am at a supreme advantage of making a rational decision having objectively formally studied almost every religion on the planet from the oldest formal religion to the newest new age philosophy u prolly havent heard of yet.

as for depression. thats another long standing misconception of the atheist. For some strange reason, religionists (the fanatical ones) would love for it to be the case that a person becomes a non believer because they are depressed or lacking something in life.. this honestly just simply isnt the case at all. I am one of the most happy, optimistic and easy going people you would ever meet. there is not a depressed nerve in my body (and if there was, i would know that rationally it is merely a lack of serotonin levels), so it would not be cause for concern. (let alone a reason to "not believe".... )

as for arrogance.. again.. this claim is baseless. Do not confuse arrogance with confidence based on a secure knowledge and critical thinking ability. And even more importantly, the rational atheist is the furthest thing from "arrogant".. this is so because we readily admit that we dont know everything. (in actuality there is so much that is unknown, hence the reason why most atheists have an affinity to science in pursuit of natural curiosity!!)) and even further, we know and understand that every rational claim has the potential to be completely false! how is this arrogant? its the exact opposite of the philosophy of religion and what arrogance means!

the philosophy of religion is a pure example of the height of man's arrogance! (a belief that we were made in the image of a divine creator is about the most arrogant and chauvanistic thing ive ever heard).. and like i said.. my argument and everythging i believe could be totally false... all it would take to do this is provide evidence showing its false (evidence of a supernatural realm, evidence that all creatures do not have common ancestry etc..) if u want to combat atheism and thos who dont beleive, thats all u would have to do!.. however in contrast u state on several occaisions that u KNOW you are right and u get frustrated when u are trying to HELP people see the RIGHT way.... lmao at the arrogance and irrationality!.. i ask u... what would it take to potentially falsify your claim and beliefs? (any rational logical claim has the ability to be falsified).. what would it take for yours??

in addition, about depression i want it to be known that every other atheist or non believer i have ever met was not depressed or angry at the concept of a god!

in actuality we (atheists) welcome it! (if it exists).. in addition i have no reason to be angry... i had a great childhood, great parents, great upbringing etc.. so why would i alll of a sudden be an ignorant, arrogant, depressed atheist?

u do the math

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 10:36 PM
What is your shoe size for timbs?

12 for constructs

11.5 for beef and brocs and chick and brocs

Visionz
04-19-2006, 10:56 PM
Do you believe in the power of collective consciousness?

Visionz
04-19-2006, 11:01 PM
Assuming that God is real and that He has an interest in testing faith. What would be the point in testing this faith if God's existence could be definetly proven?

My First Timbs
04-19-2006, 11:10 PM
Do you believe in the power of collective consciousness?

yes but from a biological/evolutionary standpoint

Visionz
04-20-2006, 01:39 AM
Assuming that God is real and that He has an interest in testing faith. What would be the point in testing this faith if God's existence could be definetly proven? You answered my other question, I was wonderin' if you happen to see this one?

"Masta-Mind"
04-20-2006, 07:05 AM
wats good timz

Could u please summerise the threory of evolution. I dont knw if u remeber a thread made in KTL a lil while back called, your religon or your beliefs where ppl posted their religon/ beliefs. what did u post or what would u post???

Soul Controller
04-20-2006, 08:46 AM
yes but from a biological/evolutionary standpoint

peace Tims
can u please expound on this.

ill post my views / more Q's
when u respond

peace sir

cd
04-20-2006, 10:09 AM
I'll throw one out there for you Timbs.

From an evolutionary standpoint, what do you think the relationship is between advancing technology and natural survival characteristics are? There is evidence that due to technological advances in science, medicine, etc that people live longer and are bigger and stronger than previous generations. If you look at Medieval knights, who were the big warriors of their day, they didn't even measure up to 6 feet. Athletes are bigger and stronger than from a generation ago. So on the surface it may look like these advances are strengthening the species.

However if you look at it from another angle, it seems humans have grown too dependent relying on outside sources. Medicines are tremendously overused and people really keep their immune systems weak when they don't let it naturally fight off sickness. Technology has become such that people do not need or want to do as much physical activity as they used to(manual labor or just being active outside) and sit stagnated inside watching hours of images on TVs or computers. We are insulated and not exposed to most of the hardships of nature. People do not use nearly as much mental capacity as they used to. A good memory and quick cognitive abilities used to be the difference between life or death. Now people rely heavily on calculators to do simple math and are too lazy to even remember phone #'s anymore bc of speedial. This seems to be leading to the dulling of a lot of intellects.

So although it seems that on the surface extreme advances in technology would make a species stronger, is this just surperficial and actually harmful to human beings' natural survival abilities? Are we cutting ourselves off from nature and is this relying on technology rather than our minds and bodies making the species actually naturally weaker?

sweet sista
04-20-2006, 10:44 AM
I wasnt saying that your agument is insulting me. I was saying that your argument and reasoning that Allah (or whatever deity is popluar at that current time in history) will "take something away" from someone (ie their senses) is insulting to the recognized history of theology and the concept of God.

1) i was talkin' in general.
2) what makes the concept of GOD insulting?


i know that u really think that and want to believe that, but sadly its not the case. Most who are disabled in some form do not earn an extra sense or a heightened sense to compensate for their loss. and as for this "compensation" taking other forms (ie family support, spirituality etc etc) thats a cop out because every normal being has those things already in some shape or form.

huh, what's up with you people focusing on the words i say instead of the meaning?!!

why don't you try to be objective yourself and look at the bright side instead always giving all your attention to every ugly dark side??

when people lose their faith, they lose hope, when they lose hope they kill themselves. why can't you see that?!


here is where the religionist refues to acknowledge the obvious contradiction. This is formally known as the argument of fate/destiny vs freewill. It is impossible to have free will in a reality that is governed by an omnipotent and omniscient god who already has everyone's lives "pre plotted" out on his mighty chalkboard. Thus by religious logic (and the recognized history of theology), I, myself am nothing but a manifestation of God's divine plan. Are u arguing that it was not in Gods plan for me to be an Athiest? Are u arguing that i somehow deviated from the plan or are u even further arguing that there is no "plan"? Being a believer of a God, you are obligated to pick a stance and ride it out! You cant play both sids of the fence by believing that there is a plan and an all knowing god but at the same time come to an irrational conclusion that we have free will.

Plan? meaning "his will".

about you becoming an athiest,
His will above everything, at the same time he gave and still gives you several options and the choices you choose are all up to you.

i'll give ya example to my understanding of how his will works.
let's say Jamal is going to die next year. Allah decided that he's going to die after few days. after few days the brutha died in a car accident. nothing has to do with his disease or maybe he had a heart attack another thing that ain't related to his disease. Allah made this time is his time and so no matter how is the way he dies, the timing is the same as Allah decided it.

some people think of killing themselves, they think by doing that they are beating Allah's will and make their time come earlier. when the fact is when they die. It was Allah's will to let their attempt to kill themselves successed. and similarly when they fail killing themselves. Allah hasn't put that date as their time to die so they won't die for a reason or another "example, someone came in while they were trying to suicide or they freaked out, or etc."

let's get back to you,
being athiest was your free choice. Allah's plan was to give you the options and you pick what you want. that shows his mercy and his just. He didn't force you to worship him, praise him and thank him. He gave you the free will to choose anything you want. but sadly, for a reason or another you were duped to think that there is no God. AND to think that with all the knowledge you have, there is no way that there is a god and you don't see him before you.

when parents decide to put their kid in a school that he wants. Does that weaken their will over him? No, they just let him be where he wanted to be.

when you have two cars, Mercedes and jaguar and you decide to drive the Mercedes. Does that mean you didn't have the will to choose the other car? NO

it's just as simple as that. that's how God's will works! and even better...

i hope you can see the connection between Allah's will, you being atheist and this.

dollabill
04-20-2006, 10:57 AM
Here Comes The Boss!

Soul Controller
04-20-2006, 02:06 PM
when u loose faith u dont loose hope
just coz u think u will loose hope if u loose faith
doesnt mean that is how the world works

i think sister should study some quantum mechanics / physics

and see what the nature of reality really is.


open your mind hun,

peace

sweet sista
04-20-2006, 02:50 PM
okay, now we are getting somewhere!! so do you agree that perfection means "existing in a state of completeness so that nothing is requisite" (ie existing in a state of perfection , having no needs or wants) ? do u agree ?
i hope we do, and yes i believe in dat..

okay... now we are getting somewhere!, do u agree that all merciful refers to a punitive concept of " receiving less than what one actually deserves from their action or belief" ??
He is merciful, He punishes for different reasons. Some we know and some we don't. However, in all cases there is mercy.

some of the things that show his mercy are when he punsihes you less than what you deserve for what you have done. two, he is punishing you as a test and giving you the chance to strengthen your faith or to find it which will make you closer to him cuz he loves you. three, he puts you in tough situations cuz he is saving you something else for later -even here that doesn't mean all he does is givin' ya the hard time but he rotates the situations sometimes good sometimes not and even in bad situations there is mercy as a matter of fact, in bad situations his mercy greater than when you're in a good situation cuz you know then he is doing that for your own sake- four, other reasons i do not know but i trust him as a creator to me, he won't hurt me if i am truthful.

that's about his mercy in the bad times. so yes he is merciful according to that.


okay, so do you agree that an immutable being cannot and will not change his or her stance, belief or aspect of conceptual existence (how u answer is very important!)
He is immutable as he does not change his ways when he treats goods and bads. He gives each what they deserve. He is immutable and doesn't change his stance.

example, you're bad you'll be punished. you're good you'll be rewarded. this is the imutable judge of his and that's how he is imutable in his stances. it's us who change so always there is an imuatable stance for us whichever path we take. i hope you understand what i'm tryin' 2 say. that's for his stance!

as for him being imutable in his existence,
As a muslim i know there are 99 names referred to God and actually they are characteristics. two of them are, THE FIRST and THE LAST. now some might think i'm contradicting maself cuz these two characteristics are contraries. It's how one's understanding explain it. To god they don't contradict but they clarify ta us.

How?
THE FIRST means that he was the first to be there in existence. THE LAST means that he is willing to be the last and after we all and everything die. see, it ain't contradiction. it's misunderstanding from oua part!! so his that leads to his third name and Characteristic THE EVERLASTING.


okay, do u agree that "all just" refers to a punitive or reward concept of "ensuring individuals receive exactly what they deserve?"

i believe that “ALL JUST” means that when Allah judges, he judges justly. And gives everyone what they deserve. When he judges.

However, Not everyone gets what they deserve in this life with humans' judges. We can see obviously that a lot of times the bad guys are happy and rich when the good ones are sad and living in hell. Hardships show the truthfulness in each one and make you see who is your friend and who is not. Hardships make people remember the importance of helping each other.

lmao
are you going to impress me with your answers or what ?! cuz so far ......na ah not impressed...

MoT
04-20-2006, 05:25 PM
peace

there are several reasons for this.. This is formally known as the homo sapien cultural explosion and can be explained very easily. In a nutshell:

prior to the harnessing of certain aspects of reality, humans lived a relatively short life span. This is very important because with a short life span come certain things and with a longer life span come other things!

prior to the harnessing of fire and to the birth of agriculture, man had relatively short life spans (if u made it to about 25 years, u were lucky and an "elder")

Once fire and agriculture "jumped off", humans now lived alot longer. With longer life spans comes population growth. with larger populations and longer life spans, comes a focus shift! meaning a shift from a primary focus being on pure survival, to a more cultural social aspect. EVEN more importantly, with larger populations and longer life spans comes the ability to successfully gain more real world spacial and technical know how about the world u live in and objects that it contains!

Even more importantly, with a longer life span, comes the abiliy to properly pass on cultural knowledge to the next generation before you die!

Its alot more complicated than this, (and there are indeed other factors) but u get the idea.... human evolution (technological expansion and cultural evolution) are highly indebted to the birth of agriculture and the harnessing of fire)...


thank you! very much that is exactly what i needed as a base for more findings...

and still the "jump off" is that one piece that i would have to witness to fully understand it..

peace

My First Timbs
04-20-2006, 07:35 PM
i did not neglect these questions.. (especially "sweet sista's too) be back in a few hours...

Assuming that God is real and that He has an interest in testing faith. What would be the point in testing this faith if God's existence could be definetly proven?




wats good timz

Could u please summerise the threory of evolution. I dont knw if u remeber a thread made in KTL a lil while back called, your religon or your beliefs where ppl posted their religon/ beliefs. what did u post or what would u post???


for this one, its hard to just summarize evolution like that.. its way to complicated.. check out my website on evolution for a brief understanding of it.

www.acalltosanity.com/evolutioneasilyexplained.html (http://www.acalltosanity.com/evolutioneasilyexplained.html)


peace Tims
can u please expound on this.

ill post my views / more Q's
when u respond

peace sir



I'll throw one out there for you Timbs.

From an evolutionary standpoint, what do you think the relationship is between advancing technology and natural survival characteristics are? There is evidence that due to technological advances in science, medicine, etc that people live longer and are bigger and stronger than previous generations. If you look at Medieval knights, who were the big warriors of their day, they didn't even measure up to 6 feet. Athletes are bigger and stronger than from a generation ago. So on the surface it may look like these advances are strengthening the species.

However if you look at it from another angle, it seems humans have grown too dependent relying on outside sources. Medicines are tremendously overused and people really keep their immune systems weak when they don't let it naturally fight off sickness. Technology has become such that people do not need or want to do as much physical activity as they used to(manual labor or just being active outside) and sit stagnated inside watching hours of images on TVs or computers. We are insulated and not exposed to most of the hardships of nature. People do not use nearly as much mental capacity as they used to. A good memory and quick cognitive abilities used to be the difference between life or death. Now people rely heavily on calculators to do simple math and are too lazy to even remember phone #'s anymore bc of speedial. This seems to be leading to the dulling of a lot of intellects.

So although it seems that on the surface extreme advances in technology would make a species stronger, is this just surperficial and actually harmful to human beings' natural survival abilities? Are we cutting ourselves off from nature and is this relying on technology rather than our minds and bodies making the species actually naturally weaker?

blackwisdom
04-20-2006, 09:19 PM
Brother "Timbs,"

How can I begin to trace my lineage? I want to take it back to Afrika if all possible. I'm going to chance my name but I want to be able to trace my blood back as far as possible first. I know that on my mother's side I'm almost all Cherokee. I have an Aunt that has a massive amount of info but I have to head out to the country to hit her up. I'm going to stop procrastinating and build with my Elders. Anyway, help me out please?

Peace

My First Timbs
04-20-2006, 10:44 PM
Brother "Timbs,"

How can I begin to trace my lineage? I want to take it back to Afrika if all possible. I'm going to chance my name but I want to be able to trace my blood back as far as possible first. I know that on my mother's side I'm almost all Cherokee. I have an Aunt that has a massive amount of info but I have to head out to the country to hit her up. I'm going to stop procrastinating and build with my Elders. Anyway, help me out please?

Peace

the easiest way is to locate a "local" dna testing laboratory and find out if they do "matrilineal mitochondrial dna mutation analysis"

sounds mouthy but all it is is a genetic trace of your x chrmosomal lineage (your mothers line) via analysis of changes in mitochondrial mutations from generation to generation.

that would solve the mystery very easily (but it gets rather expensive) sometime upward of 10,000. because in adition to u giving a dna sample via hair or buccal swab (cheek swab), they will also have the task of accessing the bioinformatic database of the people in the region u think u might have distant relatives in.

i do it all the time,, but unfortunately on rodents only :9

although if ur interested i bet u would be greatly intrigued to trace your matrilineal lineage across the species line (because u do have one!)

blackwisdom
04-20-2006, 10:54 PM
Good lookin, Timbs. The closest that I know of is in DC. I'll hold that info in my back pocket until I can use it. Appreciate it.

Peace

sweet sista
04-21-2006, 09:23 AM
thats a very bold baseless uninformed statement! (but very common in religionist beliefs)

I am not a non believer because I am ignorant of the believer or concept of one.. if anything, i am at a supreme advantage of making a rational decision having objectively formally studied almost every religion on the planet from the oldest formal religion to the newest new age philosophy u prolly havent heard of yet.

The ignorance i was pointing at wasn't the ignorance of an illiterate. Some people have a degree and they are ignorant about specific things -Don't take it personally- we all are lack of knowledge in somethings. There isn't someone who knows everything about everything. And if there is someone i would call him “GOD”.



as for depression. thats another long standing misconception of the atheist. For some strange reason, religionists (the fanatical ones) would love for it to be the case that a person becomes a non believer because they are depressed or lacking something in life.. this honestly just simply isnt the case at all. I am one of the most happy, optimistic and easy going people you would ever meet. there is not a depressed nerve in my body (and if there was, i would know that rationally it is merely a lack of serotonin levels), so it would not be cause for concern. (let alone a reason to "not believe".... )

Isn't that serotonin you're talking about is something effected by the psychological feelings of the humans by any chance? i mean sometimes, people get depressed when they see that all they have is rough days and they think god ain't helping them so they conclude that it's easier for them to think that there is no god.


as for arrogance.. again.. this claim is baseless. Do not confuse arrogance with confidence based on a secure knowledge and critical thinking ability. And even more importantly, the rational atheist is the furthest thing from "arrogant".. this is so because we readily admit that we dont know everything. (in actuality there is so much that is unknown, hence the reason why most atheists have an affinity to science in pursuit of natural curiosity!!)) and even further, we know and understand that every rational claim has the potential to be completely false! how is this arrogant? its the exact opposite of the philosophy of religion and what arrogance means!

Humph, i didn't mean you're being an arrogant but i was listing what i think some of the reasons for some atheists to believe in what they believe in. they don't want to be objective but they tend to be unique at anything and the truth doesn't matter ta them.


the philosophy of religion is a pure example of the height of man's arrogance! (a belief that we were made in the image of a divine creator is about the most arrogant and chauvanistic thing ive ever heard).. and like i said.. my argument and everythging i believe could be totally false... all it would take to do this is provide evidence showing its false (evidence of a supernatural realm, evidence that all creatures do not have common ancestry etc..) if u want to combat atheism and thos who dont beleive, thats all u would have to do!.. however in contrast u state on several occaisions that u KNOW you are right and u get frustrated when u are trying to HELP people see the RIGHT way.... lmao at the arrogance and irrationality!.. i ask u... what would it take to potentially falsify your claim and beliefs? (any rational logical claim has the ability to be falsified).. what would it take for yours??



easy on me, man!
and honestly arrogant people make me sick so i can't be one of them. I never claimed i know everything and all that but the thing i'm positive about 100% is that there is ONE GOD for the sake of all those who suffered, suffers and our own sake. Other than that i consider the possibility that i'm wrong about any other thing in life. the usual things and the decisions that made by myself or other humans, it's possible that they're wrong. And yeah you're right I sure get frustrated cuz i kinda care and 4 me it's more like talking to your little brutha who just doesn't listen.


i ask u... what would it take to potentially falsify your claim and beliefs? (any rational logical claim has the ability to be falsified).. what would it take for yours??


if you're talking about my beliefs as in “principles and opinions” in life in general, it's possible that some of them are wrong or lack of full awareness. but the concept of GOd isn't my claim. it's the truth.

whitey
04-21-2006, 10:31 AM
Isn't that serotonin you're talking about is something effected by the psychological feelings of the humans by any chance? i mean sometimes, people get depressed when they see that all they have is rough days and they think god ain't helping them so they conclude that it's easier for them to think that there is no god.


religion is the opiate of the people.

sweet sista
04-21-2006, 10:41 AM
yeah yeah i know that uuh umm
MARXISM??

dollabill
04-21-2006, 03:45 PM
Whats all this about .

whitey
04-21-2006, 04:07 PM
yeah yeah i know that uuh umm
MARXISM??

fo sho.

he looked at religion more from the economic standpoint, as he did with almost everything in life.


but id say it applies in other ways too.


your saying people believe in a god (atleast partially) just so they have hope and to give their life some meaning instead of looking at the harsh reality of it all, that we are just actually an unplanned, purposelesss, cosimic accident.

i think living a life where you put so much of yourself into a god is living lie, you are cheating yourself on the truth.

My First Timbs
04-21-2006, 06:06 PM
not only are u preventing urself from ever experiencing objective truth...

in many cases u continue a trend that will prevent others from understanding objective truth (because by nature, religion is dogmatic)

furthermore, it prevents you from actually understanding why things are the way they are

even more importantly, it decreases one's real world decision making skills.

and in addition, it prevents one from really understanding just how wonderful and precious life is....(because lets get serious,, how precious is life if its only the result of supernatural father.....there is nothing special about that...) but if life is a result of a natural process that took an astronomical amount of time to be sustained, then THAT is REALLy special and prompts one to look at the world alot differently and with alot more respect!

ShaDynasty
04-21-2006, 07:21 PM
I Have A Theory
Either Religious Cats Know That Its Bullshit
Or Their Just Very Stupid
I Mean Look At How Many Religions There Are
How Can One Be Wrong And Another True?
Its Stupid To Believe In Anything You Cant See And Know Its Real
But The World Is Full Of Wrong Doing
The More People Follow Religion The Better
Of Course
Isay That But Theres Extremists
Cats In Ireland Blow Each Other Up
And You Got All This Bullshit Muslims Blowin Up Buildings And Shit For Allah
Fuck It

Visionz
04-22-2006, 01:45 AM
^It sounds like you believe a lot of the lies they told you.

Visionz
04-22-2006, 01:51 AM
Still waiting for an answer to that last question. I know you stay busy and don't always have the time. I just wanted to make sure it didn't slip from the conversation.

Yasir Allah
04-22-2006, 02:52 AM
Peace

Timbs could you explain the evolution of man from apes? I have read some knowledge on this but I still can't really grasp the whole concept of it and this is why: It has been scientifically proven that the original people of the earth were black, now they say that man evolved from apes but caucasians have retained more of the physical characteristics of apes than black people have. I'm speaking of the noses, the thin lips, and the excessive body hair. Please add on your undertanding of how this came to be.

Peace

Bad Gramma
04-22-2006, 04:18 AM
Do you believe in extra terrestrial beings? If so, what would be your argument for their existence, from a scientific standpoint? Likewise, what would be your argument for their not existing, if that is your belief?

Have you ever known anybody to abandon their religion, and/or belief in a God, due to anything you said or wrote?

Do you think religion has had a positive or negative effect on humankind, as a whole?

What's your take on things such as ghosts, and paranormal phenomena such as the Bermuda Triangle?

What do you think happened at Roswell in 1947?

Why do you desire to enforce your evolution theories, and disbelief in a God?

sweet sista
04-22-2006, 08:55 AM
not only are u preventing urself from ever experiencing objective truth...

in many cases u continue a trend that will prevent others from understanding objective truth (because by nature, religion is dogmatic)

furthermore, it prevents you from actually understanding why things are the way they are

even more importantly, it decreases one's real world decision making skills.

and in addition, it prevents one from really understanding just how wonderful and precious life is....(because lets get serious,, how precious is life if its only the result of supernatural father.....there is nothing special about that...) but if life is a result of a natural process that took an astronomical amount of time to be sustained, then THAT is REALLy special and prompts one to look at the world alot differently and with alot more respect!


lemme get that straight,
to think that the universe was just an accident is something special.

on the other hand, ya got the concept of God which you consider as "nothing special".

this is not only narrow-mindness but it's also utter nonsense. cuz everyone in his/her right mind knows that such a special great complicated universe and creatures can't be created as a result of an accident.

meanin'
look at the human body and all the complication in it. How does the brain work and the heart or where did the soul come from? look at every living thing and you can figure how they can not be made just like that.

It's the same as sayin' that a jet plane or an antom bomb or any complicated thing can be made by itself or as you say "as a result of a natural process" despite being so complicated.

i think the truth or as you call it "the concept of God", doesn't need you to be philosopher nor scientist to figure his existence out. all it takes is to be a human being with right mind and common sense.

one thing i just don't understand how does the faith in God, decreases one's real world decision making skills. if somebody doesn't want to improve oneself, what does God has to do with this? Did GOd by any chance prevent him/her to seek knowledge. i think NOT.

My First Timbs
04-22-2006, 01:28 PM
Assuming that God is real and that He has an interest in testing faith. What would be the point in testing this faith if God's existence could be definetly proven?

im not sure if i follow ur question or if u have a typo in it

are u asking "that if we assume that god is real for a second and that he has an interest in testing the faith of his own creation (in him), what would be the point in testing the faith of his creation (us), if his existence could NOT be proven?

if thats what ur referring to, then it all boils down to the issue of faith itself and whether it is a positive, natural, raional trait or if its an irratonal trait to have faith.

for a god to test the faith of his own creation (and at the same time not provide even a shred of evidence for credence to this belief) is rather sadistic and countercurrent to the god given gift of reason.

but all of this is null and void because its assuming that a god does exist who would do such a thing. (not thats its impossible,, everything is possible when it comes to the unknown)...its just not rational to believe such in the face of no reasoning to believe it.

My First Timbs
04-22-2006, 01:30 PM
referring to the concept of collective conscious

peace Tims
can u please expound on this.

ill post my views / more Q's
when u respond

peace sir


referring to the concept of collective conscious

yes i do believe in it but purely from a biological/evolutionary standpoint

peace Tims
can u please expound on this.

ill post my views / more Q's
when u respond

peace sir


sure,

the common understanding of collective conscious is that basically there is a medium that exists thru which humans (and possibly other creatures) can all simultaneously "tap into" (on a subconscious level) that contains information about humanity on a whole or particular "cultural knowledge" on the whole... ie, the brain can tap into a wealth of information (similar how we can use the internet to learn about any thing ).............but the thing is.. the common understanding of collective conscious attributes this concept to the existence of an "ether" of sorts. (ie a "vehicle" thru which this knowledge and awareness travels thru and exists in at the same time)

this is where the rational atheist differs.

we view the conceptive of "collective consciousness" more as simply "ingrained understanding" or "instinctual knowledge", that existsview the years of genetic success and failures in natural selection. (basicaly think of it as encoded in our genome in a sense)

for example, when i talk about collective consciousness, i am merely referring to all humans or a significant group of humans sharing a certain understanding or wealth of knowledge or way of thought, without ever having any type of cultural information exchange! (and hence, by my definition, certain things "known" via collective consciousness can apply to all of humanity and certain things can only apply to certain populations of humans).. generally the broader the concept, the greater the chance of it applying to all of humaniity, the more specific teh concept, the less chance that it applies to all of humanity.

case in point, most cultures on teh planet at one point or another have developed a concept of dragons. regardless of where they were on the planet at that time, all of these cultures came up with this concept of a scary creature with wings, big teeth, scales and a tail and some claws.....(altho we know for a fact that such a creature never existed) and more importantly dinosaurs and humans never lived side by side!

so where did this concept of a scary dragon come from?

this is where collective consciousness comes in via evolutionary mechanisms (ie genetic succes/failure, and natural selection!)

although humans were not around during dinosaur times, early humans (that we all stem from!) were indeed alive on the planet when there were very large cats to fear, very deadly snakes to fear and very large birds of prey to fear!

the concept of the "dragon" is a concept created and shared in teh colective consciousness of all humans based on natural selection. Early humans who were the most afraid of snakes, lareg cats and predatory birds, were the ones who ebded up living long ebuff to have offspring. those offspring (genetically) more times than not, retained a vital genetic charateristic (that being a fear of snakes, cats and birds).. over time this genetic trait to have this fear has trickled down to all of humanity across the globe...and ultimately the fear has manifested itself by amalgamation ( a melting of the concepts together), thus the creation of the "dragon" (a scary creature that has large teeth and claws like a large cat, has wings and flies liek a predatory bird and has scales and a tongue like a deadly snake!)

the dragon was created via our collective consciousness (ie different cultures who have never exchanged ideas tapped into this geneticically ingrained wealth of knowledge) in order to come up with a similar concept or way of thought

My First Timbs
04-22-2006, 01:57 PM
Originally Posted by cd
I'll throw one out there for you Timbs.

From an evolutionary standpoint, what do you think the relationship is between advancing technology and natural survival characteristics are? There is evidence that due to technological advances in science, medicine, etc that people live longer and are bigger and stronger than previous generations. If you look at Medieval knights, who were the big warriors of their day, they didn't even measure up to 6 feet. Athletes are bigger and stronger than from a generation ago. So on the surface it may look like these advances are strengthening the species.

However if you look at it from another angle, it seems humans have grown too dependent relying on outside sources. Medicines are tremendously overused and people really keep their immune systems weak when they don't let it naturally fight off sickness. Technology has become such that people do not need or want to do as much physical activity as they used to(manual labor or just being active outside) and sit stagnated inside watching hours of images on TVs or computers. We are insulated and not exposed to most of the hardships of nature. People do not use nearly as much mental capacity as they used to. A good memory and quick cognitive abilities used to be the difference between life or death. Now people rely heavily on calculators to do simple math and are too lazy to even remember phone #'s anymore bc of speedial. This seems to be leading to the dulling of a lot of intellects.

So although it seems that on the surface extreme advances in technology would make a species stronger, is this just surperficial and actually harmful to human beings' natural survival abilities? Are we cutting ourselves off from nature and is this relying on technology rather than our minds and bodies making the species actually naturally weaker?


will answer shortly

Soul Controller
04-22-2006, 07:52 PM
Peace Tims,

Thankyou for your reply
im gonna digest what u wrote and hit u back,,

peace.

Wooly Noggins
04-24-2006, 03:33 AM
legato,
you see God does control everything but the thing is, he gives humans the freedom to pick whatever they like.

Then what good is he ?

why allow his creation/children to have an option to chose wickedness ?

Iamcrack
04-24-2006, 07:45 AM
Just came to thank Myfirsttimbs for the knowledge you have been dropping. Im on page 4 and im already excited whats next to come.:hooray:

sweet sista
04-24-2006, 09:32 AM
Then what good is he ?

why allow his creation/children to have an option to chose wickedness ?

actually he is so good he is the best. some will start to call me subjective..i don't care cuz to act toward the one who gave me everything i am as he didn't do anything is like a betrayal and it even gets worse when you act toward who stood by your side when nobody did like he is the impeached now.

He allows his creation to have an option to choose wickedness the same way he allows them to choose to do good. Because he is Allah "god" in other words, he's no saucy, he's all merciful, he's all wise and all just. He doesn't want to force humans like animals against their will. He gave humans the gift of "mind" which allows them to think of the consequences of thier actions. To choose to do good. avoid doing wickedness.

Imagine if he almighty forced all of us to do "good" things, are we going to do it properly? i mean in the best way they can be done? nah we won't, we'll be either like animals messing around with things or we won't do it good cuz we feel insulted or we don't feel like it.

example, if you were forced by your boss at work to do something. yeah you maybe will but the result won't be not as good as it should. but when he gives you the choices, you'll be creative. and that's the point, Wooly.

i think all of us to see God. we need to want to see him. however, if we were yelling like "WE WANNA SEE GOD" but in hearts we're like "yeah right". Not that i'm saying you need to be a believer first but be sincere in your search to god.


i think another effective thing is to make the "bond" between you and god direct. don't aks someone to be as your connector. God can hear you, he doesn't need a loud speaker. he can see you he doesn't need a viewer. just be sincere. spending time thinking by yourself "alone" instead of letting others influence your way of thinking can make you see god.

froth
04-24-2006, 03:14 PM
genetically and evolutionally, how do you explain whites and asians having smaller asses then blacks. That is, what were the differentiating factors in their enviroments that caused this disparity in ass size to occur?

;D

My First Timbs
04-24-2006, 10:45 PM
hehehehe, now i’m gonna give ya what you've been waiting for.


1) is God "perfect" ? yes
2) is god all merciful ? yes

3) Is god immutable (meaning he/she/it is "unchanging"?) yes


4) Is God all "just" (meaning ultimately he makes sure justice is served)



okay lets break this down.. i didnt 4get about it...

u say that the concept of god that u believe in is that god is perfect and thus by definition is complete and without needs or wants.. (these are u words that u agreed to)

The problem with your way of thinking and ultimately your concept of god is the logical contradiction...as such:

this is a widely known philosophical stance and i xplain it further in my new book "Why Bad Beliefs Dont Die" (due out Aug 11 th!!, preorders start July 4th) :=)

The Perfection vs Creation Fallacy

step 1) God is allegedly perfect
step 2) God allegedly created the universe
step 3) Perfection implies a state of being complete , without needs or wants
step 4) if god created the universe, he obviously either wanted to or needed to create it !

step 5) remember, a perfect being cant had needs or wants (at any time)

step 6) this means god isnt perfect

step 7) if god isnt perfect, this violates the premise of step 1.

step 8) logically , god cant exist.

see the problem with your concept sweet sista?


in addition, u also stated that god is unchanging ie immutable

here is the problem

Religious Fallacy of Immutability

Step 1) God is immutable/unchnaging
Step 2) God created the universe
Step 3) in order to create the universe, this means god had an "intent" to create the universe before he created it !
Step 4) after god creates the universe, his intent was satisfied and thus he no longer had the intent
Step 5) by no longer having the intent, god's idealogical stance has fundamentally changed from his originally stance (of having an intent!)
Step 6) God is supposed to be immutable?
Step 7) logically god isnt immutable
Step 8) God doesnt exist

7EL7
04-25-2006, 01:43 AM
trying to expalin these things to sweet sista is like showing a blind man a beautiful picture

she'll never see it

7EL7
04-25-2006, 02:14 AM
and fuck these evolution theories

my people don't come from apes

you can go on and believe what your master wrote out in books as facts in the name of science

they'll have a different story next year

you name and label these things the way they taught you to name and label them
and cannot see whats what for yourself

to have your enemy guide you this way is sick and silly in this day and age when the knowledge of God and devil is right there sittin on your eyeballs

continue to hold the hands of your coon makers and receive what he is about to receive

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 07:24 AM
apsu!! so i'm blind now?!
and sweet poor me i was going to say to you, long time no see...

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 07:25 AM
okay lets break this down.. i didnt 4get about it...

u say that the concept of god that u believe in is that god is perfect and thus by definition is complete and without needs or wants.. (these are u words that u agreed to)

The problem with your way of thinking and ultimately your concept of god is the logical contradiction...as such:

this is a widely known philosophical stance and i xplain it further in my new book "Why Bad Beliefs Dont Die" (due out Aug 11 th!!, preorders start July 4th) :=)

The Perfection vs Creation Fallacy

step 1) God is allegedly perfect
step 2) God allegedly created the universe
step 3) Perfection implies a state of being complete , without needs or wants
step 4) if god created the universe, he obviously either wanted to or needed to create it !

step 5) remember, a perfect being cant had needs or wants (at any time)

step 6) this means god isnt perfect

step 7) if god isnt perfect, this violates the premise of step 1.

step 8) logically , god cant exist.

see the problem with your concept sweet sista?


in addition, u also stated that god is unchanging ie immutable

here is the problem

Religious Fallacy of Immutability

Step 1) God is immutable/unchnaging
Step 2) God created the universe
Step 3) in order to create the universe, this means god had an "intent" to create the universe before he created it !
Step 4) after god creates the universe, his intent was satisfied and thus he no longer had the intent
Step 5) by no longer having the intent, god's idealogical stance has fundamentally changed from his originally stance (of having an intent!)
Step 6) God is supposed to be immutable?
Step 7) logically god isnt immutable
Step 8) God doesnt exist


timbs, you're no god! so you can't come and say what are people's intention and it's even dumber to assume what was god's intention just like that. he is god, you can't think that he thinks the same way humans do! Unless you think humans can create a universe, humans, animals, plants rocks again cuz humans can't they maybe able to reproduce something but not create it.

also you don't know that he did or didn't have an intention before, after creating the universe. What you said is an assumptions that don't always work the same way.

to say that god didn't have the intent to something is so subjective superficial viewpoint. Cuz it's like looking at a man who build his house in a remote district and calling him an ignorant. Before knowing for sure that he has no clue about the future of the land he is building his house on. He could be the to know this area and all the conditions and he has to have a good reasons and god proved that how good he almighty is by creating such various creations and universes and etc.

humans set strategies for ten or twenty or more years to get a project done, how can god who created them not to do at least at least the same?! Not that i'm sayin that it's hard for him to do things but he has to have the intention of everything and how things will go etc. another thing that makes him god.

timbs, all you just did was assumings and try to psychologies god as a human, that doesn't work. Use your knowledge that you swelled ma ears with.

My First Timbs
04-25-2006, 09:28 AM
lmao

i just read ur post quickly and u obviously missed te whole point of my post..

do u know what an "intention" is?

are u saying god didnt deliberately create the universe? it was a mistake?

THE BANNED
04-25-2006, 09:33 AM
POOR SWEET YOU? MY AZZ!!
i just remembered who do you remind me of...THE LITTLE GIRL NEXT DOOR SHE IS 9 BUT UNLIKE U SHE DOESNT SPEAK RELIGIOUS SHIT

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 10:06 AM
^aight, join the club....me and the banned a**.......lol

7EL7
04-25-2006, 10:22 AM
apsu!! so i'm blind now?!
and sweet poor me i was going to say to you, long time no see...



Now ?

you always been blind

a blind follower of nonsense

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 10:32 AM
lmao

i just read ur post quickly and u obviously missed te whole point of my post..

do u know what an "intention" is?

are u saying god didnt deliberately create the universe? it was a mistake?

and that was? yeah to prove that there's no GOd i almost i forgot.

& no i don't know what "intention" is so i'm waitin' mr. gentlman timbs come and help a hopless poor lady and tell me what is "intention" as he helped me xplainin' the concept of GOd.

anyway, if you're tryin' to make me say what you believe just like that. yeah i think you read what my post quickly.

timbs, you said that GOd created the universe and after that he didn't have any plan whatsoever or should i say "intention" to do anything else so here my beloved miraculous you're tryin' to prove with that, That god ain't no perfect according to my concept of GOD.

that ain't proving nothing. cuz first and formost you ain't building this claim "that god created the universe and then he didn't have a plan or intention to what he should do next" on knowledge. if not ignorance that is then it's assumbtion.

is that you're knowledge? assuming things!?

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 10:37 AM
Now ?

you always been blind

a blind follower of nonsense

hehehehe apsu that's so what i xpected you to say...
i know you think i have alwayz been a blind follower of nonesense. However, you don't know how i wuz so you really can't come you too and assume that i have always been like dis.

anyway, give me something i can understand i mean why don't you give it a try. if you have the truth, you shouldn't keep it for yourself.

My First Timbs
04-25-2006, 10:53 AM
and that was? yeah to prove that there's no GOd i almost i forgot.

& no i don't know what "intention" is so i'm waitin' mr. gentlman timbs come and help a hopless poor lady and tell me what is "intention" as he helped me xplainin' the concept of GOd.

anyway, if you're tryin' to make me say what you believe just like that. yeah i think you read what my post quickly.

timbs, you said that GOd created the universe and after that he didn't have any plan whatsoever or should i say "intention" to do anything else so here my beloved miraculous you're tryin' to prove with that, That god ain't no perfect according to my concept of GOD.

that ain't proving nothing. cuz first and formost you ain't building this claim "that god created the universe and then he didn't have a plan or intention to what he should do next" on knowledge. if not ignorance that is then it's assumbtion.

is that you're knowledge? assuming things!?

instead of just quickly spurting nonsense, why dont u just answer the simple question?

ok,, lets keep it simple and concise.. one step at a time...

1) an intention is "an aim that guides an action.. an objective"

so sweet sista, do we agree that god intended to create the universe ie, he did it purposefully?

just answer the question, dont spurt nonsense that has nothing to do with it.. just answer the question

do we agree that god intended to create the universe?

(if u cant answer this simple question then something is wrong)

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 12:45 PM
instead of just quickly spurting nonsense, why dont u just answer the simple question?

ok,, lets keep it simple and concise.. one step at a time...

1) an intention is "an aim that guides an action.. an objective"

so sweet sista, do we agree that god intended to create the universe ie, he did it purposefully?

just answer the question, dont spurt nonsense that has nothing to do with it.. just answer the question

do we agree that god intended to create the universe?

(if u cant answer this simple question then something is wrong)

you really have to think of the connection of what i said instead of xpecting me to give you one word "yes/No" as an answer.


so what was the quetion?
hehe..yeah ^ of course he did.

My First Timbs
04-25-2006, 01:03 PM
ok, so far so god.. so u agree that god intened to create the universe

okay lets move to the next step

step 2) do u agree that once god was done creating the universe, that he completed his objective? remember his objective/intent was to create the universe (we already established that)

so all i want from u is to answer this question

once god was done creating the universe
he completed the "objective" of his "intent".. do we agree on this simple statement?

My First Timbs
04-25-2006, 03:00 PM
..and after we get thru this one, then we will tackle the issue of "perfection" and needs and wants....

but 1 thing at a time...

My First Timbs
04-25-2006, 06:51 PM
damn.. i think i scared her away..........

but if you are watching sweet sista

dont 4get the question.......

sweet sista
04-25-2006, 11:08 PM
HA HA HA very funny .... i went to bed, smartass!
okay let's see what was your quetion....
do i agree that once god was done creating the universe, that he completed his objective?
yeah he compeleted the step number one that was in his intention.

My First Timbs
04-25-2006, 11:13 PM
HA HA HA very funny .... i went to bed, smartass!
okay let's see what was your quetion....
do i agree that once god was done creating the universe, that he completed his objective?
yeah he compeleted the step number one that was in his intention.

okay, so god at one point in time had an intention to create the universe (so far so good)

after he finished creating the universe, he completed his objective (and thus satisfied his intention)..

here is where the logical problem comes in and follow me on this without responding emotionally (respond rationally!)

there is a fundamental change in idealogical stance and position for one to at one point in time "have an intention to do something", and then after they successfully do it "no longer have the intention"

do u follow me on that?

whitey
04-25-2006, 11:38 PM
one of my biggest objections to religion is how stupid it is in the sense that why the fuck would god create the universe then wait 30 to 40 BILLION YEARS for us to get to where we are right now.


this wasnt thought (or readily known) when religions were invented, and thats why they told some bullshit stories about the earth being only 6000 years old.


then when the truth came out that the earth is billions of years old and the univeres is billions and billions of years older than that, it didnt phase them.

like, what the fuck? how blind are some (a lot) people.

My First Timbs
04-26-2006, 12:07 AM
there is some truth in what ur saying whitey, but the thing is.. not all religions behave this way!

there are many religions and belief systems and individuals who wholeheartedly believe in the concept of a god, but see no problem with accepting the facts of evolution and the facts of our cosmology. its mainly just fundies (whether xtians or islamic) that seem to have a problem on average with this .. but mainly just xtians.

but at the same time there are millions of xtians and islamic fundies who have no problem with evolution and our universe's cosmology/age and see evolution as the "tool" god used to sustain life on the planet. ( i have no problem with that)

My First Timbs
04-26-2006, 12:14 AM
for those lurking and watching,

what im trying to do as of recently is shw sweet sista how her concept of her god is fundamentaly logically flawed (not to say that the concept of a god is flawed!! thats a different issue).. im tryin just to illustrate that HER CONCEPT is flawed...

the last we left off she admitted that "after god completed creating the universe, his inetnion was satisfied"

thus god no longet had the intent anymore

many may wonder why i keep stressing this little issue.. i am because this little logical pitfall is at the heart of the modern concept of a god. this little logical excercise also illustrates exactly where the believer's irrational thought process "kicks in".

its impossible for a god to be labelled as "immutable" or "unchanging" and at the same time be argued to be a creator of the universe! (or creator of anything)

in order to purposefully create something, there logically has to be intent!

but once that something is created, you no longer have that intent anymore (because it was satisfied!), thus, in the process of creating something, this "god" has changed his fundamental stance! Once a god is shown to possibly change his stance, he can no longer be argued to be immutable or unchanging!

questions? comments?

My First Timbs
04-26-2006, 12:18 AM
CD Asked:
Originally Posted by cd
I'll throw one out there for you Timbs.

From an evolutionary standpoint, what do you think the relationship is between advancing technology and natural survival characteristics are? There is evidence that due to technological advances in science, medicine, etc that people live longer and are bigger and stronger than previous generations. If you look at Medieval knights, who were the big warriors of their day, they didn't even measure up to 6 feet. Athletes are bigger and stronger than from a generation ago. So on the surface it may look like these advances are strengthening the species.

However if you look at it from another angle, it seems humans have grown too dependent relying on outside sources. Medicines are tremendously overused and people really keep their immune systems weak when they don't let it naturally fight off sickness. Technology has become such that people do not need or want to do as much physical activity as they used to(manual labor or just being active outside) and sit stagnated inside watching hours of images on TVs or computers. We are insulated and not exposed to most of the hardships of nature. People do not use nearly as much mental capacity as they used to. A good memory and quick cognitive abilities used to be the difference between life or death. Now people rely heavily on calculators to do simple math and are too lazy to even remember phone #'s anymore bc of speedial. This seems to be leading to the dulling of a lot of intellects.

So although it seems that on the surface extreme advances in technology would make a species stronger, is this just surperficial and actually harmful to human beings' natural survival abilities? Are we cutting ourselves off from nature and is this relying on technology rather than our minds and bodies making the species actually naturally weaker?

whitey
04-26-2006, 12:26 AM
there is some truth in what ur saying whitey, but the thing is.. not all religions behave this way!

there are many religions and belief systems and individuals who wholeheartedly believe in the concept of a god, but see no problem with accepting the facts of evolution and the facts of our cosmology. its mainly just fundies (whether xtians or islamic) that seem to have a problem on average with this .. but mainly just xtians.

but at the same time there are millions of xtians and islamic fundies who have no problem with evolution and our universe's cosmology/age and see evolution as the "tool" god used to sustain life on the planet. ( i have no problem with that)

o i feel you with that. but i just get the feeling that they almost have been forced to accept that point. and they wouldnt have if it was up to them, only the proof got so overwhelming that they would just look like they were complete ignoramuses if they didnt incorporate some science into their beliefs.

Aqua Luna
04-26-2006, 12:35 AM
for those lurking and watching,

what im trying to do as of recently is shw sweet sista how her concept of her god is fundamentaly logically flawed (not to say that the concept of a god is flawed!! thats a different issue).. im tryin just to illustrate that HER CONCEPT is flawed...

the last we left off she admitted that "after god completed creating the universe, his inetnion was satisfied"

thus god no longet had the intent anymore

many may wonder why i keep stressing this little issue.. i am because this little logical pitfall is at the heart of the modern concept of a god. this little logical excercise also illustrates exactly where the believer's irrational thought process "kicks in".

its impossible for a god to be labelled as "immutable" or "unchanging" and at the same time be argued to be a creator of the universe! (or creator of anything)

in order to purposefully create something, there logically has to be intent!

but once that something is created, you no longer have that intent anymore (because it was satisfied!), thus, in the process of creating something, this "god" has changed his fundamental stance! Once a god is shown to possibly change his stance, he can no longer be argued to be immutable or unchanging!

questions? comments?

This is beautiful, well put, and logical.

And, I'm glad you went outside of sweet sista's replies in your explanations
cuz, she seems to be set in her illusions.

But, I gotta give it to ya for tryin!

My First Timbs
04-26-2006, 12:39 AM
o i feel you with that. but i just get the feeling that they almost have been forced to accept that point. and they wouldnt have if it was up to them, only the proof got so overwhelming that they would just look like they were complete ignoramuses if they didnt incorporate some science into their beliefs.


i agree

just look at the issue of evolution and common ancestry

until modern advances in bioinformatics and molecular genetics and the humane genome project, many religious fundamentals and others shouted at the top of their lungs that its complete rubbish to believe that humans are related to other creatures (mainly other primates)... they stood by this claim to the "death"

scientists already knew that all creatures are related via common ancestry, but once the human genome project was completed, the truth was now out there for all to see! we are related (and very close) to the african aps and chimps (this is verifiable evidence of common ancestry)

so at this point religious fundies didnt wanna look like complete lunatics, so they somehow incorporated this tidbit of knowledge into their "belief system" to somehow make them seem more rational..

its a common trend, and the reason for this is known as the "god of the gaps"

god only presides over the unknown. once things are brought into the realm of the verfiable "known", god is demoted by one rank to be the "cause" of the now new "known" thing.

Aqua Luna
04-26-2006, 12:41 AM
one of my biggest objections to religion is how stupid it is in the sense that why the fuck would god create the universe then wait 30 to 40 BILLION YEARS for us to get to where we are right now.


this wasnt thought (or readily known) when religions were invented, and thats why they told some bullshit stories about the earth being only 6000 years old.


then when the truth came out that the earth is billions of years old and the univeres is billions and billions of years older than that, it didnt phase them.

like, what the fuck? how blind are some (a lot) people.
Yeah but 6,000 years is just how far back the whiteman can trach HIS history.....

Yet, we also know that hueman life was here on Earth before the whiteman was...so, go figure

Aqua Luna
04-26-2006, 12:56 AM
Now ?

you always been blind

a blind follower of nonsense
aaaahahaha...yea, that Apsu!

galt john galt
04-26-2006, 02:00 AM
what is said if you are privy to the possible evolution after homo sapien? for what could evolved higher than wise, yet in the world of evolution man can't be done unless he does himself in.

sweet sista
04-26-2006, 07:00 AM
okay, so god at one point in time had an intention to create the universe (so far so good)

after he finished creating the universe, he completed his objective (and thus satisfied his intention)..

here is where the logical problem comes in and follow me on this without responding emotionally (respond rationally!)

there is a fundamental change in idealogical stance and position for one to at one point in time "have an intention to do something", and then after they successfully do it "no longer have the intention"

do u follow me on that?

yea...i see whatcha tryin' ta say..go on..

whitey
04-26-2006, 10:05 AM
what is said if you are privy to the possible evolution after homo sapien? for what could evolved higher than wise, yet in the world of evolution man can't be done unless he does himself in.


what makes us the be all end all?

My First Timbs
04-26-2006, 10:41 AM
yea...i see whatcha tryin' ta say..go on..

well , basically thats just it!
do you concede to the point that in the act of creating something, there is a fundamental change when it comes to having an original intent, and then completing the project or objective and then no longer having that intent anymore?

if you concede to this point, then I have successfully demonstrated how your concept (along with others concepts) of a "god" as an unchanging immutable deity is incorrect !

if u dont concede u must explain how this god is still immutable


(off topic) i just got a message from my publisher, they are quite concerned about me posting on this forum... they feel that i am giving away too much info thats in my book and future book for free........

sweet sista
04-26-2006, 12:37 PM
Hey that ain't proving nothing. i concede that in the act of creating, there was and still a strategy that god used/uses. i mean that he had in mind that after creating the universe,he'll create teh humans, animals, etc. and he is still on his strategy until everything dies. so, from the very begining it's obvious that he almighty intended to do it all. How can you assume that he stoped in his intention like he is a human. my sweet little fairy, Dis is irrational, isn't it?

THE BANNED
04-27-2006, 05:05 AM
^nice sig lol

sweet sista
04-27-2006, 05:34 AM
No no the old one was coo but dis one ...:nonono:

THE BANNED
04-27-2006, 06:12 AM
So You're Not One Of Anime's Fan...we Got That

sweet sista
04-27-2006, 07:52 AM
no it ain't that i'm not a fan of anime. their animations are professional but topics, images and the idea of alot of anime's works just not for kids. it's cartoon tho

My First Timbs
05-24-2006, 09:43 PM
what is said if you are privy to the possible evolution after homo sapien? for what could evolved higher than wise, yet in the world of evolution man can't be done unless he does himself in.

an almost infinite number of things can happen after man is no longer here..

humans are not the pinnacle of existence.


yet in the world of evolution man can't be done unless he does himself in

not sure what this means.. please elaborate

My First Timbs
05-24-2006, 10:01 PM
P.S.

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you can even now browse through pages of the book using the "amazon reader" for those that are interested.

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INF
05-24-2006, 10:37 PM
Peace god.

This thread is amazing! Thank you for helping spread and share knowledge.

Here's my Q. - How vital is numerology to life as we know it today? Also, what is the deal with the number 42. The most I know at this point about this number is that it translates into the meaning of life. Does this mean that there is some way to work life into an equation and get an answer that would prove valuable to better results in life?

Thanx for your time.


Peace and mad respect.

One.

denaturat
05-24-2006, 11:14 PM
Peace god.

This thread is amazing! Thank you for helping spread and share knowledge.

Here's my Q. - How vital is numerology to life as we know it today? Also, what is the deal with the number 42. The most I know at this point about this number is that it translates into the meaning of life. Does this mean that there is some way to work life into an equation and get an answer that would prove valuable to better results in life?

Thanx for your time.


Peace and mad respect.

One.

numbers qua numbers do not have an intrinsic meaning. its just superstition, like astrology or alchemy. there is no evidence to support the claim that numbers have meaning. these theories of meaning date back in history, when superstition prevailed. perhaps at one point someone stumbled onto logic of mathematics, and at that time it was a major breakthrough. however, much was still unknown, and perhpas the early mathematicians did not fully understand what they discovered. excited, and perhaps a bit proud, they thought they discovered some great secret of the universe, and went beyond the logic of mathematics. they still lived in a supersticious society so they couldn't help but import some elements of the supernatural into the theory of mathematics.

over time this ficticious philosophy of numbers was passed on and ordinary people must have assumed that this was wisdom even though they may not have understood why for example 42 is the meaning of like. in fact, notice that these days people assume that obscure ancient theories contain hidden truths - especially where these theories seem esoteric.

My First Timbs
05-24-2006, 11:48 PM
indeed

in addition, one must understand that numbers have no meaning.. the whole concept of a "number" is a humanoid construct

we assign values to the concept of "numbers", it helps us make sense of the world we live in

denaturat
05-25-2006, 12:00 AM
I'm curious, can you tell me about yourself Timbs? are you an academic? do you teach? ..are you that young person in your signature? or are you 61 years old as the information above left indicates?

My First Timbs
05-25-2006, 12:38 AM
I'm curious, can you tell me about yourself Timbs? are you an academic? do you teach? ..are you that young person in your signature? or are you 61 years old as the information above left indicates?

peace denaturat

i am a biologist and evolutionist by degree and profession

i am the author of a few books on religion, evolution and atheism

one of my books (a call to sanity) is required reading in many college classrooms

i also give lectures at various colleges and universities

the youngin in the pic is indeed me

denaturat
05-25-2006, 12:57 AM
peace denaturat

i am a biologist and evolutionist by degree and profession

i am the author of a few books on religion, evolution and atheism

one of my books (a call to sanity) is required reading in many college classrooms

i also give lectures at various colleges and universities

the youngin in the pic is indeed me

nice meeting you here on wu. we seem to be likeminded...though you are obviously more learned in what we are talking about here.

froth
05-25-2006, 02:07 AM
what colleges require you to read that

Jesus Christ
05-26-2006, 05:29 PM
Hey Tim, I seen a thread where you were asking people what kind of car you should buy, so I'm assuming your rich, and this is your Q and A thread so.....................

Do you use your intelligence, nice car, and money to get a lot of different pussy? And even if you don't get pussy like that, would you say this type of behaior is the evoultion man's thought process in our modern time? In a sense that most men try to fuck everything that moves. I guess what i'm trying to say is- is the reason's man quest for success an effort to spread their seed around with as many mates as possible? As opposed to hunting in older times?

Serious Question.

My First Timbs
05-27-2006, 01:07 AM
Hey Tim, I seen a thread where you were asking people what kind of car you should buy, so I'm assuming your rich, and this is your Q and A thread so.....................

Do you use your intelligence, nice car, and money to get a lot of different pussy? And even if you don't get pussy like that, would you say this type of behaior is the evoultion man's thought process in our modern time? In a sense that most men try to fuck everything that moves. I guess what i'm trying to say is- is the reason's man quest for success an effort to spread their seed around with as many mates as possible? As opposed to hunting in older times?

Serious Question.

on the real.. altho u asked it in an unorthodox roundabout way, the crux of your question is indeed very very valid!

human evolution (and the mechanism / vehicle through which it works....meaning natural selection via sexual selection and mating patterns) is alive and well and will always be as long as there are gender roles.

such things as "fancy cars", displaying an appearence of "wealth" etc can all be seriously considered as subconscious attempts to increase one's own "fitness" level.

in higher primates, most mating patterns are x-chromosomal, meaning that they are driven by female choice and selection.

from an objective point of view, human males can increase their chances of being perceived as "fit" by many ways (some of which are purely material as u bring up), but in addition to that, "fitness" can also be based on potential to successfully raise young (money and and appearence of wealth and security does indeed play a role in this perceived fitness level) ..but other things also play major roles that sometimes outweight perception of security.

your question is a great one and is indeed continualy being studied by evolutionary anthropologists who study trends of human mating patterns and differential reproductive success.

so in a nutshell, the quik answer is yes.. a human male driving a corvette, on average has a slightly better chance of passing his genes on to the next generation compared to those that ride a bicycle.. (but it must be known that this advantage is so slight that its not even worth mentioning)

the situation is much more complex than this, but i just wanted to address ur question in a simplified way

WU-KILLAH
05-27-2006, 01:46 AM
Im not surprised you sold a lot of books, you know how to sell it ! I consider myself as a rational thinker, but I have to admit you put rationality to the limit ! very interesting to read you thought.

I wanted to know something I've heard about but hardly believe : is it true that in several american universities creationist theories are taught ? Im mean public universities.

TUCO
05-27-2006, 01:56 AM
u mad?

My First Timbs
05-27-2006, 06:16 PM
Im not surprised you sold a lot of books, you know how to sell it ! I consider myself as a rational thinker, but I have to admit you put rationality to the limit ! very interesting to read you thought.

I wanted to know something I've heard about but hardly believe : is it true that in several american universities creationist theories are taught ? Im mean public universities.

peace

in many non accredited colleges, universities and cetificate schools, creationists theories are taught (sometime along side biological evolution)

in most accreditted colleges and universities , creationism is only taught as an elective via part of a "readings in humanities" course, philosophy course or history of religion course...but they are not required

GhostFan
05-29-2006, 11:23 PM
peace to all

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Hey man I remember you from HHG.... anyway
I know this is not an "important to all existance" question.. but what do you think of the song "Nature of the Threat" by Ras Kass? Historically accurate? Wrong?

BlaK FuRYaN
05-30-2006, 07:56 AM
The genesis of the brain and chordata (spinal column) occur concurrently in vertebrate development! The brain obviously isn’t bone.. and it obviously isn’t “a flesh covering”.. yet the Quran doesn’t account for this ! Bones are not made first and then a flesh covering is made.. it simply doesn’t occur that way. Flesh is actually made “first” and bone is subsequently developed and lags behind.

Timbs, leave a step by step development of the embryo in the thread pls....

BlaK FuRYaN
05-31-2006, 05:42 AM
yo timbs

My First Timbs
05-31-2006, 09:39 AM
oh my bad blak... didnt see ur post..

My First Timbs
05-31-2006, 10:46 AM
what we know about life on earth is what we extrapolate for life on other planets (this is our best "bet")

we know that life on earth requires nitrogen

nitrogen is indeed found on other planets and certain moons

we know that earth life requires carbon

carbon is indeed found on othe rplanets and some moons

we know that life requires a terrestrial or aquatic temperature not below -150 and not above 350 F.

these types of temperatures are indeed found undergorund and under water of many othe rplanets and moons

we know that life on earth requires a constant energy source to fuel the "living economy of existence" (on earth this is the sun and/or hydrothermal vents

there are indeed other planets and moons in close enuff proximity to a star to have a "sun" and there may possibly be hydrothermal venting under frozen ice on many moons

although there are many more criteria, it is thought that it is indeed most probable to assume (based on the evidence of life on earth)
that a similar mechanism is needed for life to occur on other planets.

this is why we search out moons and planets with water/ice and a dense atmosphere to see if there is life (because we base life on the earth model)

of course, life doesnt have to operate like how it does on earth.. buts thats our best rational standpoint.

now just from a purely philosophical standpoint, it is most probable that life does indeed exist elsewhere in an infinite universe with trillions (if not an infinite amount) of galaxies.

My First Timbs
05-31-2006, 02:08 PM
nano technology is in use everyday.. in the healthcare fields nano technology is used to create and sustain microprocessors and servors and circuitry small enuff to be injected into the vein of a mammal that ultimately will bind to certain receptor sites on cells.

as for the breaking down of matter into its "nano components" and then rebuilding it into something else.. im not sure what u mean

snapple
05-31-2006, 02:18 PM
is it possible to make homemade 2ci, if so how?

My First Timbs
05-31-2006, 03:25 PM
i guess.. im not up on that yet.. it must be still in theory and not in practice yet.

there u go with alchemy again :)

My First Timbs
05-31-2006, 05:37 PM
The genesis of the brain and chordata (spinal column) occur concurrently in vertebrate development! The brain obviously isn’t bone.. and it obviously isn’t “a flesh covering”.. yet the Quran doesn’t account for this ! Bones are not made first and then a flesh covering is made.. it simply doesn’t occur that way. Flesh is actually made “first” and bone is subsequently developed and lags behind.

Timbs, leave a step by step development of the embryo in the thread pls....




step 1) 10 hours after ejaculation, sperm reaches egg and penetrates the oocyte

step 2) the now new zygote begins to undergo cleavage (cell division)..once it reaches appropriate size, it falls out of fallopian tube into uterine cavity

step 3) the zygote basically now "hollows itself out" becoming a what is known as a blastocized..formation of 2 cell types

step 4) special hormones are secreted by the blastocyst that eat away at uterine lining so that the blastocyst can attach itself..this in turn causes uterine swelling and increased blood circulation...next is an evolutionary throwback to an earlier time in life's history! the blastocyst splits into 2 regions..the uppermost becomes the actual embryo and amnion while th elower half becomes a yolk sac !..in addition, the placenta begins to develop

step 5) embryo attaches itself to wall via a stalk and gastrulation occurs.. the "primitive streak" is formed


step 6)the 3 cell layes begin to form (endo, meso and ecto)

step 7) ectoderm gives rise to precursors 2 nervous system ..at this stage, the embryo is described as pear or acorn shaped

step 8) blood vessel development

step 9)eyes, ears start to form.. heart muscle is able to contract

step 10) neural tube develops and causes the primitive S-shape of embryos

step 11) brain and spinal column develop concurrently

step 12) limbs bus, and other organs start to develop (including the evolutionary vestigial appendix)

step 13) nasal plate formation, more brain development, gill slits

step 14) mouth formation and lengtheneing of esophagus

step 15) digits start to form and lower jaw begins development (upper jaw is yet to develop)

step 16) pituitary gland and spine further develop.. sense of smell now present in brain (olfactory)

step 17) the skeleton now begins to start to form and kidneys now work (urine)

step 18) testes and ovaries are indistinguishable at this point but embryo can now move

step 19) intestines develop outside body but then revert back into body

step 20) fingers and toes are webbed at this point

step 21) clitoris and penis form (from same tissue) and brain can now cause limb movement

step 22) skeleton continues to form but it is now just cartilage.. a fully developed tail also forms at this stage..heart is complete

step 23) webbing between fingers and toes starts to disappear, head is almost fully formed.. mouth andjaw bones develop

step 24) breathing, swallowing and sucking motions now possible.. baby can swim aound womb..tail still there

step 25) blood circulation fully formed

step 26) tail starts to get smaller

step 27) testes in males start to form ..baby can suck thumb (this occurs in humans as well as other primates and other mammals and even some birds!.. it is an evolutionary practice run for mammary suckling)

step 28)testes descend fully and lungs are completely developed

step 29) skeleton , including chordata now almost fully complete

step 30) skin pigment is pink at this point (about 6-7 months)

step 31) skull fully develops but is soft (will later be molded by female birth canal..ppl with longer heads on average had a longer journey thru birth canal!)

step 32) skin fully develops, still pink

step 33) all 300 bones in human baby now fully formed and solid.. baby is ready to be delivered

step 34) instinctual behavior is now evident (not learned) these behaviors are evolutionary advantages to increase chances of survival baby is fully developedal..

step 35) baby is born