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whitey
04-06-2006, 02:06 PM
Fossil Fish Sheds Light on Transition
By MALCOLM RITTER



NEW YORK (AP) - Scientists have caught a fossil fish in the act of adapting toward a life on land, a discovery that sheds new light one of the greatest transformations in the history of animals.
Scientists have long known that fish evolved into the first creatures on land with four legs and backbones more than 365 million years ago, but they've had precious little fossil evidence to document how it happened.
The new find of several specimens looks more like a land-dweller than the few other fossil fish known from the transitional period, and researchers speculate that it may have taken brief excursions out of the water.
``It sort of blurs the distinction between fish and land-living animals,'' said one of its discoverers, paleontologist Neil Shubin of the University of Chicago.
Experts said the discovery, with its unusually well-preserved and complete skeletons, reveals significant new information about how the water-to-land evolution took place.
``It's an important new contribution to (understanding) a very, very important transition in the history of life,'' said Robert Carroll of McGill University in Montreal.
The new find includes specimens, 4 to 9 feet long, found on Ellesmere Island, which lies north of the Arctic Circle in Canada. It is reported in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature by Shubin, Ted Daeschler of the Academy of Natural Sciences in Philadelphia and Farish A. Jenkins Jr. of Harvard.
Some 375 million years ago, the creature looked like a cross between a fish and a crocodile. It swam in shallow, gently meandering streams in what was then a subtropical climate, researchers say. A meat-eater, it lived mostly in water.
Yet, its front fins had bones that correspond to a shoulder, upper arm, elbow, forearm and a primitive version of a wrist, Shubin said. From the shoulder to the wrist area, ``it basically looks like a scale-covered arm,'' he said.
``Here's a creature that has a fin that can do push-ups,'' he said. ``This is clearly an animal that is able to support itself on the ground,'' probably both in very shallow water and for brief excursions on dry land. On land, it apparently moved like a seal, he said.
It might have pulled itself onto stream banks, perhaps moving from one wet area to another, and even crawled across logs in swamps, said Daeschler.
The researchers have not yet dug up any remains from the hind end of the creature's body, so they don't know exactly what the hind fins and tail might have looked like.
The creature was dubbed Tiktaalik (pronounced ``tic-TAH-lick'') roseae, and also had the crocodile-shaped head of early amphibians, with eyes on the top rather than the side. Unlike other fish, it could move its head independently of its shoulders like a land animal. The back of its head also had features like those of land-dwellers. It probably had lungs as well as gills, and it had overlapping ribs that could be used to support the body against gravity, Shubin said.
Yet, the creature's jaws and snout were still very fishlike, showing that ``evolution proceeds slowly; it proceeds in a mosaic pattern with some elements changing while others stay the same,'' Daeschler said.
If one considers adaptation as a process of collecting tools to live in a new environment, the new finding offers ``a snapshot of the toolkit at this particular point in this evolutionary transition,'' Daeschler said.
In fact, much of its value comes from this insight into the order in which those tools appeared in fish, said Jennifer Clack of Cambridge University, an expert unconnected with the study.
Knowing that detail about the transition from fish to land-dweller, she said, ``might help us to unravel why it happened at all. Why did creatures come out of the water and get legs and walk away?''
It's impossible to tell if Tiktaalik was a direct ancestor of land vertebrates, she said, but if a scientist set out to design a plausible candidate, ``you'd probably come up with something like this.''
Shubin said the researchers plan to return to the small rocky outcropping that yielded the fossils and recover more material. ``We've really only begun to sort of crack that spot,'' he said. The site is in Nunavut Territory, and ``Tiktaalik'' in the creature's name comes from the traditional language used in the area. It refers to a large freshwater fish seen in the shallows.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=ne-story-9-l8&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20060405%2F2306966043.htm&sc=1501

Aqua Luna
04-06-2006, 02:07 PM
aahaha..not this shit again!

hold up, imma read it...but, damn I ike how you coming back wit it...too funny!

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 02:14 PM
i heard about that. the first step for fish the giant leap to form man. the whole fish to man. that comes from while in the womb and we look like amphibians. more of the evolutionist versus the creationist battle for life supremacy. hahahaha. what does a fish in water have to do with a man on two legs. this is all about the use and misuse of darwin. let me say this - if this is suppose to be real, they will still never know why such things happened. fish walking dinosaurs into birds etc. becomes like science fiction, a good movie but makes for no sense to reality.

Aqua Luna
04-06-2006, 02:18 PM
damn dif!...nuff said!

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 02:19 PM
i heard about that. the first step for fish the giant leap to form man. the whole fish to man. that comes from while in the womb and we look like amphibians. more of the evolutionist versus the creationist battle for life supremacy. hahahaha. what does a fish in water have to do with a man on two legs. this is all about the use and misuse of darwin. let me say this - if this is suppose to be real, they will still never know why such things happened. fish walking dinosaurs into birds etc. becomes like science fiction, a good movie but makes for no sense to reality.

ignorance in its purest form

Aqua Luna
04-06-2006, 02:21 PM
Whoa...lay down tha gunz lol

Timbs...do humans come from fish?

My First Timbs
04-06-2006, 02:23 PM
i will address all evo questions in my thread in due time.

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 02:45 PM
ignorance in its purest form

i know about darwin and the school of agnostics. the turning away from god but still saying he exists. survival the strong selection and what's natural.

whitey
04-06-2006, 02:49 PM
i know about darwin and the school of agnostics. the turning away from god but still saying he exists.

intellegent design is what your talking about there.

thats just religion with a scientific mask.

LHX
04-06-2006, 02:52 PM
if you really look at a person and a dolphin
there is not that much difference

head
body
4 limbs

it seems to be a dependable pattern for life on this planet

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 02:55 PM
no intelligent design has nothing to do with darwin. intelligent design is another word for the religious use of the created world. darwin was working with species and how they adopted adapted or weren't able to survive and why. yes he brought in the monkey and the religious fanatics went to court in kansas. but yes intelligent design is to say that they can have a god given science remove god and still look/stay christian.

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 02:56 PM
if you really look at a person and a dolphin
there is not that much difference

head
body
4 limbs

it seems to be a dependable pattern for life on this planet

that's only in the womb.

LHX
04-06-2006, 02:57 PM
that's only in the womb.

whats only in the womb?

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 03:04 PM
fish looking people.

LHX
04-06-2006, 03:07 PM
dolphins look very similar to people as it is

4 limbs
a body
and a head

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 03:11 PM
both are mammals anyway. sharks are similar to people but not mammals. no one compares mammals and non mammals. they would have to look for that gap in the leap to fill with beliefs before any hypothesis was concluded.

LHX
04-06-2006, 03:15 PM
both are mammals anyway. sharks are similar to people but not mammals. no one compares mammals and non mammals. they would have to look for that gap in the leap to fill with beliefs before any hypothesis was concluded.

maybe it would be better to distinguish that
life is life
and
intelligence is intelligence

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 03:26 PM
maybe it would be better to distinguish that
life is life
and
intelligence is intelligence

yes. does not life have an intelligence incoded within. dna.unless you're speaking of those two in particulars, in which case what brought them together?

Aqua Luna
04-06-2006, 04:20 PM
This whole fish crap came about cuz I told whitey that the Original Blackman is God...so he decided to go on with this 'then a fish is God crap'.

How ironic...hogwash!

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 04:56 PM
my family is not inclined to sleep with nor eat fish food. nor have they any wish to go there.

whitey
04-06-2006, 06:10 PM
This whole fish crap came about cuz I told whitey that the Original Blackman is God...so he decided to go on with this 'then a fish is God crap'.

How ironic...hogwash!

semi true to how it came about.

aqua and others were saying the black man is god of men because they were the first and i said if we were going by that model it would be fish because they were the first to get on land and would eventually lead to the black man...

Aqueous Moon
04-06-2006, 06:17 PM
The Original Asiatic Blackman is God because he is the master of the universe. Being first is cause he created the whiteman other wise he would be the only...But, I never said that being first is why the Original blackman is God.

dif de la rev
04-06-2006, 06:17 PM
you are alluding to evolution not the creation. and to a linear framework of progression not a cyclical. you are saying that we were fish now people and what's next may i ask, or are you saying peole get no higher. a cyclic means that there is a starting point a nadir and back to the apex. two different divergent paths. one looks at the history of the world in its totality the other organisms and only organisms. speculation versus procees of elimination.

LORD NOSE
04-06-2006, 09:17 PM
aliens fucked whales and little fish was the result

aliens fucked monkeys and mankind came about

aliens jerked off in the sea and their sperm cells turned into al different types of fish

tadpoles are people too !

LHX
04-06-2006, 10:41 PM
you are alluding to evolution not the creation. and to a linear framework of progression not a cyclical. you are saying that we were fish now people and what's next may i ask, or are you saying peole get no higher. a cyclic means that there is a starting point a nadir and back to the apex. two different divergent paths. one looks at the history of the world in its totality the other organisms and only organisms. speculation versus procees of elimination.

i just dont understand this

whitey
04-06-2006, 10:53 PM
The Original Asiatic Blackman is God because he is the master of the universe. Being first is cause he created the white man other wise he would be the only...But, I never said that being first is why the Original blackman is God.

with what silly putty?

whitey
04-06-2006, 10:55 PM
you are saying that we were fish now people and what's next may i ask, or are you saying peole get no higher.

i have no crystal ball. i cannot see the future. we can only take a look at the past. and that is what the past tells us.

LORD NOSE
04-07-2006, 12:26 AM
Whitey aka the fish god

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 12:30 AM
with what silly putty?
Naw, it's called genetics...do tha knowledge.

hectis
04-07-2006, 12:36 AM
so If Humans Came From Fish Then Every Time I Eat Fish Am I Being A Cannibal?(im Not Serious)

whitey
04-07-2006, 12:47 AM
Naw, it's called genetics...do tha knowledge.


they were doing genetic experiments and made white people?

ooo like the x-files or something.

ok i get it now.

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 12:55 AM
No...it wasn't an experiment.

God knew exactly what he was doing

when he made ya wicked asses

dif de la rev
04-07-2006, 01:17 AM
they were doing genetic experiments and made white people?

ooo like the x-files or something.

no like tales from the darkside from the outer limits within the twilight zone.
see it's too dark for you to concieve the range of brillance percieve in the utterance.

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 11:57 AM
yeah...stop showing off

Legato = :eggy: :nerdy: .... lol j/k :lmao:

LHX
04-07-2006, 12:26 PM
they were doing genetic experiments and made white people?

ooo like the x-files or something.

ok i get it now.

'you are what you eat'


salt
sulphur
and matter

life begets life

My First Timbs
04-07-2006, 02:06 PM
well all multi celled organism evolved from the same beginnings, meaning they are all pretty much mm not the same but different evolutionary paths of the same species.
is it possible humans evolved from the fish...yes, is it possible that humans and fish both spawn from the same species that broke off into two different evolutionary paths one more fish water like the other on path to become human, indeed. im so smart.
there u go legato.. ur pretty much more or less accurate.

LORD NOSE
04-07-2006, 02:29 PM
then where does the one celled animals who turned into fish then later humans come from ?


how did the one celled animal come to be alive


perhaps vibration from sound and light from the sun shining on matter in water ?

is there life in a sun ray ?


is there life in the fire of the earths core ?


could it not be that these "energies" hit different matter in different places differently and brought about different forms of life ?


and how is it impossible that life from another planet landed here, found life here, and molded and combined what they found here ?

LORD NOSE
04-07-2006, 03:56 PM
why fish and not frogs ?

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 04:27 PM
What came first the man fish or the woman fish?

The chicken or the egg?

brown_dogg
04-07-2006, 05:47 PM
No...it wasn't an experiment.

God knew exactly what he was doing

when he made ya wicked asses

listen to yourself. God knew what he was doing when he was making wicked things? wow, good job God.

hectis
04-07-2006, 05:53 PM
listen to yourself. God knew what he was doing when he was making wicked things? wow, good job God.

SHE SAID UR WICKED ASSES MEANING HE MADE THE DEVIL TO SHOW THE POWER OF GOD THE ORIGINAL BLACK MAN FROM ASIA OR AT LEAST THATS WHAT I THINK SHE IS SAYING MAYBE HE MADE THE DEVIL TO SEE WHO WILL FOLLOW THE HOLY MOST HIGH OR WILL THEY FOLLOW THE WAYS OF THE DEVIL I DO NOT KNOW BUT I HAVE NO
AUTHORITY NOR DOSE ANY ONE ELSE FOR THAT MATTER TO QUESTION GOD

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 05:53 PM
What's your problem, Brown...you mad?

The Original Asiatic Blackman knew what he was doing when he made the wicked whiteman...yes, he did.

brown_dogg
04-07-2006, 06:05 PM
no i'm not mad. i was just asking if that was the intention, but i said it more bluntly. but why do you keep saying "when he made the wicked whitemen". why would he make an evil person just to end up being oppressed by him.

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 06:19 PM
no i'm not mad. i was just asking if that was the intention, but i said it more bluntly. but why do you keep saying "when he made the wicked whitemen". why would he make an evil person just to end up being oppressed by him.
To Show and Prove that Allah is God...always has been always will be.

also check this thread - http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10545

and this one - http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10507

I did a lot of builds about this if you wanna check em out.

hectis
04-07-2006, 06:24 PM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10507

THIS THREAD IS GOOD AND IT WUZ UR FIRST ONE RIGHT?

whitey
04-07-2006, 06:28 PM
To Show and Prove that Allah is God...always has been always will be.

also check this thread - http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10545

and this one - http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10507

I did a lot of builds about this if you wanna check em out.


after readings timbs posts, maybe you should read his book.

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 06:29 PM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10507

THIS THREAD IS GOOD AND IT WUZ UR FIRST ONE RIGHT?
Yes it was and thanks, hectis

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 06:30 PM
after readings timbs posts, maybe you should read his book.
why should I ?...you are the one who won't except your origins. You read it and feel better, k?

hectis
04-07-2006, 06:31 PM
I Printed It And Put It In My Studies(ur First Post)

whitey
04-07-2006, 06:32 PM
the way you say origins arise are stories.

you dont want to see how things really are.

Aqua Luna
04-07-2006, 06:35 PM
the way you say origins arise are stories.

you dont want to see how things really are.
You just don't want to admit that the Original Asiatic Blackman is God.

He created you...so he knows your story very well.

You can only guess about his.

whitey
04-07-2006, 06:37 PM
your crazy, i love you, but your crazy.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 02:15 AM
the way you say origins arise are stories.

you dont want to see how things really are.


fish turning into men is not also a story ?

WU-KILLAH
04-08-2006, 02:19 AM
It's crazy how some people can't accept the truth, what's even more crazy is that creationist theories are taught in certain american universities ....
:?

whitey
04-08-2006, 10:31 AM
fish turning into men is not also a story ?

it would be a story like ooo say the black man is god, but then theres the fossil record, and fiction becomes non-fiction.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 10:32 AM
why fish and not frogs ?


why fish and not frogs ?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v237/LOUDBIRD/SPERM_AND_TADPOLE.jpg

whitey
04-08-2006, 10:44 AM
to my knowledge there were not frogs at the time the first fish started coming out of the water.

frogs came later on the evolutionary scale.

i only say "we came from fish" because they had a backbone and were the first to come out of the water. so other land animals had to come from them.


and just because a tadpole looks like a sperm, it doesnt mean it qualifies it as our ancesstor.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 11:05 AM
to my knowledge there were not frogs at the time the first fish started coming out of the water.

to your knowledge

frogs came later on the evolutionary scale.
according to you, man also came later

i only say "we came from fish" because they had a backbone and were the first to come out of the water. so other land animals had to come from them.

why couldn't there be animals already on the land ?


and just because a tadpole looks like a sperm, it doesnt mean it qualifies it as our ancesstor.
and just because fish have backbones doesn't mean that they are our ancestors

whitey
04-08-2006, 11:16 AM
to your knowledge

no its for a fact, but i didnt have a citation right on hand so i didnt want to say something without the documentation.


according to you, man also came later

uh yea.



why couldn't there be animals already on the land ?

because fossil records show life was only in the water at first. the air was too toxic for land animals. too much C02. plant life grew, mass forrests, and they produced oxygen to sustain animal life on land.



and just because fish have backbones doesn't mean that they are our ancestors

nothing was on land. they come on land. they lead to land life. which leads to other land life, and so on and so on, eventually to us.

what the problem is?

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 11:20 AM
no its for a fact, but i didnt have a citation right on hand so i didnt want to say something without the documentation.




uh yea.





because fossil records show life was only in the water at first. the air was too toxic for land animals. too much C02. plant life grew, mass forrests, and they produced oxygen to sustain animal life on land.





nothing was on land. they come on land. they lead to land life. which leads to other land life, and so on and so on, eventually to us.

what the problem is?


so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another story

whitey
04-08-2006, 11:29 AM
so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another story


Ever since recorded history began, and probably before, people have found pieces of rock and other hard material with indentations from the remains of dead organisms. These are called fossils, and the totality of these objects and their placement in rock formations is referred to as the fossil record.

The fossil record is one of the primary sources of data relevant to the study of evolution. Scientists examine fossils in order to understand the process of evolution and the way particular species have evolved.

William Smith (1769-1839), an English canal engineer, observed that rocks of different ages (based on the law of superposition) preserved different assemblages of fossils, and that these assemblages succeeded one another in a regular and determinable order. He observed that rocks from distant locations could be correlated based on the fossils they contained. He termed this the principle of faunal succession.

Smith, who preceded Charles Darwin, was unaware of biological evolution and did not know why faunal succession occurred. Biological evolution explains why faunal succession exists: as different organisms evolve, change and go extinct, they leave behind fossils. Faunal succession was one of the chief pieces of evidence cited by Darwin that biological evolution had occurred.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 11:37 AM
Ever since recorded history began, and probably before, people have found pieces of rock and other hard material with indentations from the remains of dead organisms. These are called fossils, and the totality of these objects and their placement in rock formations is referred to as the fossil record.

The fossil record is one of the primary sources of data relevant to the study of evolution. Scientists examine fossils in order to understand the process of evolution and the way particular species have evolved.

William Smith (1769-1839), an English canal engineer, observed that rocks of different ages (based on the law of superposition) preserved different assemblages of fossils, and that these assemblages succeeded one another in a regular and determinable order. He observed that rocks from distant locations could be correlated based on the fossils they contained. He termed this the principle of faunal succession.

Smith, who preceded Charles Darwin, was unaware of biological evolution and did not know why faunal succession occurred. Biological evolution explains why faunal succession exists: as different organisms evolve, change and go extinct, they leave behind fossils. Faunal succession was one of the chief pieces of evidence cited by Darwin that biological evolution had occurred.


so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another story

whitey
04-08-2006, 11:42 AM
what else do you make your basis on, some crazy story that something from another planet came here and put black people here then black people created the white man in genetic experiements?

very logical...

logical:

Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic.
Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions; reasonable: Rain was a logical expectation, given the time of year.
Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 11:48 AM
what else do you make your basis on, some crazy story that something from another planet came here and put black people here then black people created the white man in genetic experiements?

very logical...

logical:
Of, relating to, in accordance with, or of the nature of logic.
Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or conditions; reasonable: Rain was a logical expectation, given the time of year.
Reasoning or capable of reasoning in a clear and consistent manner.


so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another story

whitey
04-08-2006, 11:59 AM
yea i know, it kinda disproves your theory. and thats hard to accept. but turning a blind eye doesnt make it go away. only shows you dont want to see the truth.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 12:08 PM
yea i know, it kinda disproves your theory. and thats hard to accept. but turning a blind eye doesnt make it go away. only shows you dont want to see the truth.



so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another story

whitey
04-08-2006, 12:30 PM
i got out of middle school a while ago, i dont need to play little kid games.

LORD NOSE
04-08-2006, 12:47 PM
i got out of middle school a while ago, i dont need to play little kid games.













so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another story

hidden ninja
04-08-2006, 03:47 PM
so your saying that man came from fish because documentations and fossil records says so ?


then they'll find something else and tell another storyhow did Man get here then? I don't think anyone is saying that a fish walked and turned into Man a week later; but this fish lived over 300 million years ago, Men have only been here within the last hundred thousand.

And if you do believe Men have existed on Earth for Billions of years, is it not possible that this fish walking out the water led to the evolution of all animal life we see around us? if yes, how is that not still a remarkable discovery?

Wooly Noggins
04-08-2006, 03:54 PM
how did Man get here then? I don't think anyone is saying that a fish walked and turned into Man a week later; but this fish lived over 300 million years ago, Men have only been here within the last hundred thousand.

And if you do believe Men have existed on Earth for Billions of years, is it not possible that this fish walking out the water led to the evolution of all animal life we see around us? if yes, how is that not still a remarkable discovery?

we know that no one is saying that a fish walked and turn into a man a week later

if it did walk out of the water and grew feet then it was a lizard first

then it turned into a lizard who walked on 2 feet

do you believe in reptilians ?

where are the fish,lizards,lizard men who were born later and never developed into men but stayed half way in between

in another billion years will the fish we know of today eventually turn into men -

marmaids and shit lmao

LHX
04-08-2006, 05:23 PM
life on this planet takes many forms

these forms change over time

the end