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Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 05:25 AM
is it necessary to show morality to animals, non-humans?

Visionz
04-08-2006, 05:39 AM
do you think that morality and respect are the same thing? and if not what is your definition of morality?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 05:59 AM
indeed, the answer to the question begins in understanding the terms we are using.

as for respect and morality..

is respect part of morality? or IS it morality?

respect may be explained by saying that one has willingness to show consideration or appreciation.

morality may eb explained by saying that you display a virtuous conduct.

both have similarities in that, respect may be interpreted as a virtue, and thus forms part of displaying a virtueous conduct.

but virtue itself means more than respect.

do we agree thne that,
respect forms part of morality but morality is more?

Visionz
04-08-2006, 06:28 AM
I could agree to that. and I would say that I show respect to animals in that I would never cause harm to one unless I was being attacked by one. As far as showing morality to an animal, I would say that I don't think an animal would comprehend morality so there wouldn't be much use in showing one your moral side. Why do you ask?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 06:32 AM
i ask because, if there is no need to show morality to an animal because it's out of its comprehension, then is the reason for morality to make sure the other person knows you were moral? therefore to get recognition of your morality?

is humbleness an attribute fixated with morality?

lol..

i just wanna chek out what people think about it.
how can i be moral to an animal? or a plant? is it good to be moral in any case? are there benefits of showing morality? am i a better person?

if i see an animal wounded, is it moral to call animal docs? or wouldnt it matter if i walked away?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 06:33 AM
most people would say btw, it is good to be moral to animals,

bottom line,

does it reallly matter?

Visionz
04-08-2006, 06:40 AM
I think respect is a better words for my actions in regards to other life forms. Morality is so human in concept that I don't see a purpose in applying it to anything other than human interactions and choices that we make that affect society. Prochoice vs Prolife, DeathPenalty vs Life-imprisonment, drug policy, ect......I think these are where the real moral debates take place, though you have to question who pushes the agenda in the first place.

Visionz
04-08-2006, 06:42 AM
if i see an animal wounded, is it moral to call animal docs? or wouldnt it matter if i walked away I guess it depends on how bad off the animal is. If it's a dog walking with a limp, I'd leave it be. If it looked like the dog was gonna die, I'd try to get some help.

Visionz
04-08-2006, 06:44 AM
You can learn a lot from animals. but not so much from a continous string of single sentences that show no real signs of thought.

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 06:48 AM
true say,

i guess we all apply morality on different levels to different things.
i suppose morality is often shown although we are unaware of it.

morality is such a small word but with so many meanings. shows the limitations of linguism in terms of explaining humanity.

i feel u though, showing respect in any case is always desirable,
remember though, it is a moral though! so u do show morality to pretty much anything.

PB

Visionz
04-08-2006, 06:55 AM
I try to have respect to all living things. I think if people really believe in something strongly, then they should try to live by the path that they have chosen,. Of course this only applies if it is indeed a righteous path in the first place. I think that more than one belief system fits that bill. The problems arrise due to conflict over the details. When dealing with those of a different faith I think it wise to try to find the common ground. Doesn't it seem like people are essentially the same pretty much everywhere but we're fond of thinking we're really different? Would realizing this be considered morality? or is it just awareness?

Visionz
04-08-2006, 07:04 AM
Was that TWO sentences? :clap: You're moving up in life. Why do you choose the name freedom fighter?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 07:07 AM
Doesn't it seem like people are essentially the same pretty much everywhere but we're fond of thinking we're really different? Would realizing this be considered morality? or is it just awareness?

thats a good question.

essentially we would need to address the cases for differences.
there are females and males. we ought to be equal at some fronts, yet we are not 100% equal when we take each gender as a whole.

furthermore,

people live in different "worlds" making them experience different lifes which may not be realised by all.

clearly we can agree that, there will always be some sort of differences in societies.

essentially we are all similar. we breathe the same air, think through brains (arguably).

However is the realisation of this a moral revelation of just a mere "awareness".

personally it is not morality in the sense that this does not fit in the meaning of morality.

morality is partly, showing a virteous conduct.

but thats the twist.

knowing we are similar on ceratin levels is a virtue, as knowledge may be translated as virtious.

but the depth of this can be argued, is more suited to reflect the term awareness.


lol its an unstructured answer because a lot of thoughts are going on.

what do you think?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 07:09 AM
That was smart Erik. Have fun in Texas. And you 2 Prince? whatever in London.

"whatever in london" makes sense.

enjoy freedom fighting! whats the cause?
getting power back from mental institution?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 07:14 AM
I hope they eat you alive.

great comeback:no:

Visionz
04-08-2006, 07:19 AM
I think the disparity you mention is intended on a global level. First you have to ask yourself "what gives money value?" U.S currency hasn't been backed by ist worth in precious metals for quite some time. So the only thing that gives money power is the idea behind it. But World Banks can just loan money to countries and end up completely wiping out their economy because of the interest. Usury, in short. An immoral act codemned by the Quran. I think people are much more alike in their basic desires for a fulfilled life. Generally this means starting and taking care of a family. And enjoying moments with both your family and friends. At some level I think we all want this but the way its carried out depends on the culture of where ever you happen to be. But to what I was saying in the beginning, this disparity is desired because it provides a means of exploitation for so-called "developed" countries. The goverment will tell you they want democracies but in reality, behind the scenes, they want anything but democracies being established on a global level. If it happened everywhere, who would be left to exploit? If the answers is no one, then to them it's not a feasible option.

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 07:28 AM
I think the disparity you mention is intended on a global level. First you have to ask yourself "what gives money value?" U.S currency hasn't been backed by ist worth in precious metals for quite some time. So the only thing that gives money power is the idea behind it. But World Banks can just loan money to countries and end up completely wiping out their economy because of the interest. Usury, in short. An immoral act codemned by the Quran. I think people are much more alike in their basic desires for a fulfilled life. Generally this means starting and taking care of a family. And enjoying moments with both your family and friends. At some level I think we all want this but the way its carried out depends on the culture of where ever you happen to be. But to what I was saying in the beginning, this disparity is desired because it provides a means of exploitation for so-called "developed" countries. The goverment will tell you they want democracies but in reality, behind the scenes, they want anything but democracies being established on a global level. If it happened everywhere, who would be left to exploit? If the answers is no one, then to them it's not a feasible option.

thats true.

global democracy doesnt work. aristotles always said that, a government should never be govenrned by one system, ie democracy, dictatorship etc.

a mixture works best. apparently anyway.

governments will always seek the good for its own people in terms of internationalism.

they will always put a front up promising goodness, but essentially its all about self benefits.

Visionz
04-08-2006, 07:34 AM
Wouldn't seem though that Aristoles' outlook might be outdated? I don't think that a mixture, at least not of their terms works, except for those that have put this system into place. I would like to see it toppled and replaced with something more humane. The hardest quesiton that I confront myself with is what would replace it? Others in these forums talk about a return to a natural life, w.hich is cool in theory but I doubt it's feasability in a world so populated. Have you ever given thought to any real cures to the ills of society? If so, what do you have in mind?

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 07:42 AM
remedies are given to the ills of individual societies.
and remedies remedy problems temporarily. human frailties always come back.

well, aristotles ideas are old, but exist.
the UK government parliament monarchy works the way aristotle explained societies could be working.

we have democracy-parliament
aristocracy-government/house of lords
monarchy-the crown queen

whether it works is debateable. but this country has had this system for such a long time and no major revolution. that explains a lot.

personally i think that, the mixtured government is ok.
by having varied systems, the flaws of each could be checked or balanced by the other systems.

its a tough decision and a deep one.

we must always consider the people we are about to rule or let rule.

Visionz
04-08-2006, 07:52 AM
is it possible to end the exploitation of human life here on earth? Ideally I think a goverment that allows people to carry out their free will, so long as it doens't interfere with anyone elses, is best. Whatever name it goes by or what ever nuiance that may seperate itself from others, as long as it is a free society then its a good one. The question is what can be done so that goverments that can make it happen allow it to happen? I would say right now they stifle it.

Visionz
04-08-2006, 07:58 AM
I got to get some sleep homie.....Here's the link to that video if ya need to keep yourself entertained. It's on some real shit though, definetly worth checking out. peace homie

http://www.911revisited.com/

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 07:59 AM
free will.

well free will is definitely good. but what constitutes good free will?

i mean, say one dude kills his daughter because she went out with some guy. and this was done due to personal beliefs. is this good free will for collective society?

i guess governments will do what they do and suggest limitaions which become laws in the end.

free will is what law hasnt touched yet.

your idea is definitely good, i think though, its limited to the size and dimension of a society.

perhaps.

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 08:00 AM
peace erik!!

TeknicelStylez
04-08-2006, 08:17 AM
Of course it's important to show animals and any other form of life respect. Just because you can't communicate with it doesn't mean it's life isn't equivelent to yours.

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 08:33 AM
what about general morality?
what is the purpose of respect?

just playing devils advocate

LHX
04-08-2006, 09:10 AM
i dont think morality and respect go hand in hand

unless you suggest that having respect for your environment naturally leads to some sort of morality



morality seems suggestive of rules

TeknicelStylez
04-08-2006, 10:29 AM
If you're an unmoral person, and spread negativity than negative things will consistently occur in your life. If you don't do nothing to be positive and build around you than nothing positive will happen for you.

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 01:05 PM
If you're an unmoral person, and spread negativity than negative things will consistently occur in your life. If you don't do nothing to be positive and build around you than nothing positive will happen for you.

i like that.. simple but very profound truth.

Prince Rai
04-08-2006, 01:07 PM
i dont think morality and respect go hand in hand

unless you suggest that having respect for your environment naturally leads to some sort of morality



morality seems suggestive of rules

exactly.

but respect forms part of morality.
or in a brief introduction that i gave to both respect and morality, there may eb basis for saying that they do join on some level.

NAKHI the SOLORIAN
04-08-2006, 01:34 PM
I think respect is a better words for my actions in regards to other life forms. Morality is so human in concept that I don't see a purpose in applying it to anything other than human interactions and choices that we make that affect society. Prochoice vs Prolife, DeathPenalty vs Life-imprisonment, drug policy, ect......I think these are where the real moral debates take place, though you have to question who pushes the agenda in the first place.



this is where I am at, I agree with this 100%

NAKHI the SOLORIAN
04-08-2006, 01:39 PM
If you're an unmoral person, and spread negativity than negative things will consistently occur in your life. If you don't do nothing to be positive and build around you than nothing positive will happen for you.



this is true and I agrre with you, BUT......

sometimes in life one has to do negative things to get to/see the positive, how else would you know something is negative.....


like the degree build/destroy....


in order to build you must destroy something, some might look at destroying as a negative act, but is it truly a negative act if the final outcome is positive?

i.e.

to be with my wife I had to go thru many trails and tribulations(and hurt alot of women in the process), but the end result was a positive space in my life so therefore was me hurting all those women in the past negative when the end result was positive(my happiness that is)?

Frontal Lobotomy
04-08-2006, 03:40 PM
Morality is respect, but with rules and guildelines. The concept of morality I feel is something which came from the church, and their instilled values on society. Respect is something outside of that, where by you have an empathy with your surroundings, or words to that effect.
With regard to showing 'morality' or 'respect' to animals. We're like, just animals ourselves, and we don't show respect for one another by and large, so I guess you can take whatever answer from that you like.