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LHX
04-17-2006, 11:59 AM
most if not all systems of 'belief' or knowledge have a central text or scripture that is referred to by those who follow the system

all of these scriptures follow the same format

1 - a detail of 'history' and how things came into being
2 - a series of suggestions of how to approach 'life'
3 - a suggestion of what the future has in store



the only differences between the books are

1 - the amount of detail
2 - the metaphors used
3 - the tone used by those who assembled the literature




all books are maps
all these maps represent the same place
what we are witnessing here is that some maps are better than others
and will help you better navigate the territory


but
the best approach is to take as many maps into account as possible

add on if you have any insights

MoT
04-17-2006, 01:44 PM
great idea but i never read any of the main ones so i dont know.. but i could start digging if you tell me where .. cause this is AN ISSUE here..

Aqueous Moon
04-17-2006, 01:47 PM
Yeah...I agree.

But, I'm thinking like...When does a metaphor stop being a metaphor and is just a plain old lie?

Because a metaphor could make things easier to understand and relate to.

A lie that looks like a metaphor just confuses. But, like you were saying...it's better to not just rely on only one source.

MoT
04-17-2006, 01:59 PM
go on ... what kind of trickery...?

LHX
04-17-2006, 02:39 PM
Yeah...I agree.

But, I'm thinking like...When does a metaphor stop being a metaphor and is just a plain old lie?

Because a metaphor could make things easier to understand and relate to.

A lie that looks like a metaphor just confuses. But, like you were saying...it's better to not just rely on only one source.

any metaphor can be used as a lie

all you have to do is take out the indication of the metaphor


'god is a man up above'
vs
'god is like a man up above'



'i can shoot lightning from my fingertips'
vs
'i can shoot lightning in the form of keystrokes and words from my fingertips'

Aqueous Moon
04-17-2006, 02:43 PM
hmmm....very nice!

Yes, I can see that.

Right.
05-14-2006, 11:06 PM
You should not compare them and don't forget they're old.

denaturat
05-14-2006, 11:21 PM
but if you don't believe in the assumptions underlying the books you mentioned, namely that they have been written by a god, then these books may no longer be useful as roadmaps....maybe they are more like a maze, or a trap.

Right.
05-14-2006, 11:30 PM
Those books don't exist for nothing. Everything is here with a reason.

denaturat
05-14-2006, 11:32 PM
Those books don't exist for nothing. Everything is here with a reason.

you're not making an argument, just making an assertion unsupported by premises


what if I were to say to you that these books exist for nothing. there is no reason for anything? (possible, but it is just an assertion too)

Right.
05-14-2006, 11:35 PM
I wasn't planning to go in discussion. All I can say is I wasn't there.

Right.
05-14-2006, 11:39 PM
Nobody here so sssttt.

Visionz
05-14-2006, 11:40 PM
but if you don't believe in the assumptions underlying the books you mentioned, namely that they have been written by a god, then these books may no longer be useful as roadmaps....maybe they are more like a maze, or a trap.All I can say is truth is never a trap. Whether you agree on the source or not, there is still much knowledge to be gained from reading religous texts. Almost all of them have some form of the golden rule for instance. That is a concept that everyone should learn and exercise and I can say with absolute certainity is definetly not a trap.

denaturat
05-14-2006, 11:53 PM
All I can say is truth is never a trap. Whether you agree on the source or not, there is still much knowledge to be gained from reading religous texts. Almost all of them have some form of the golden rule for instance. That is a concept that everyone should learn and exercise and I can say with absolute certainity is definetly not a trap.

I absolutely agree with you on that point. there are many good lessons one cantake from the bible. However, it can be a trap if you take everything in it to be the truth, if you believe that it was written by God, and it is an authority on everything, but it turns out that this is false. You waste time and energy praying to god, your will take everything in the book to be true, while it may be just some fact and good knowledge mixed with fiction and bad principles.

Aqueous Moon
05-14-2006, 11:56 PM
Did you see how LHX demonstrated the difference detween a lie and a metaphor??

The Bible can be utlized using the same brainwork.

You have to extract the Truth, but that don't mean it ain't truth.

denaturat
05-15-2006, 12:11 AM
You have to extract the Truth, but that don't mean it ain't truth.

no, that's sophistry. something can be written in such broad language that you can extract contradictory principles from it. at that point it can become useless. how many different christian denominations are there that claim their's is the correct interpretation of the bible? :frusty:

Aqueous Moon
05-15-2006, 12:16 AM
You shouldn't use christians as your example for bible interperters.

Most of them take the scriptures very literal and fail to look deeper than face value.

But, that's why we have brains. We can look into the scripture and see the truth, not interpertation but solid truth.

Visionz
05-15-2006, 12:16 AM
I absolutely agree with you on that point. there are many good lessons one cantake from the bible. However, it can be a trap if you take everything in it to be the truth, if you believe that it was written by God, and it is an authority on everything, but it turns out that this is false. You waste time and energy praying to god, your will take everything in the book to be true, while it may be just some fact and good knowledge mixed with fiction and bad principles. I just try to pay attention to the essentials when reading. But I have to say that I do believe in a Grand Creator and so I would say that prayer is not pointless, at least not for me. I would also say that it is not my place to judge and that every one must walk their own path. I have to tell you though, that the power of faith is an amazing thing. And not for what happens internally but for what has happened around me consistently. I would say that God has been ever-vigilent in taking care of me, for many different reasons.

I do not however, accept everything that's written in the Bible or the Quaran as truth simply because it's been interpreted (sp?) by man who where in posistions of power and no doubt, used that to their advantage. I think this happened a great deal w. the bible and less so with the quaran. But intrepretation is a tricky thing so something so minute as a upper or lower case letter can make a world of difference in my perception of meaning. This has happend in the past and it makes thing tricky when trying to decipher an exact meaning of something. It makes me wish I spoke Arabic so that i could decipher it for myself.

Visionz
05-15-2006, 12:21 AM
no, that's sophistry. something can be written in such broad language that you can extract contradictory principles from it. at that point it can become useless. how many different christian denominations are there that claim their's is the correct interpretation of the bible?I haven't been to a day of actual church in my life. I think it's important to find your own meaning in the words that are there and not let anyone else's perception define them for you. After all when you die, that's you all on your own. I'd rather take my own reasoning with me vs. someone else's logic.

denaturat
05-15-2006, 12:22 AM
I just try to pay attention to the essentials when reading. But I have to say that I do believe in a Grand Creator and so I would say that prayer is not pointless, at least not for me. I would also say that it is not my place to judge and that every one must walk their own path. I have to tell you though, that the power of faith is an amazing thing. And not for what happens internally but for what has happened around me consistently. I would say that God has been ever-vigilent in taking care of me, for many different reasons.

I do not however, accept everything that's written in the Bible or the Quaran as truth simply because it's been interpreted (sp?) by man who where in posistions of power and no doubt, used that to their advantage. I think this happened a great deal w. the bible and less so with the quaran. But intrepretation is a tricky thing so something so minute as a upper or lower case letter can make a world of difference in my perception of meaning. This has happend in the past and it makes thing tricky when trying to decipher an exact meaning of something. It makes me wish I spoke Arabic so that i could decipher it for myself.

I understand what you are saying. however i am an agnostic, so my view is somewhat different on the so called holy books. but this may be going off topic.

Aqueous Moon
05-15-2006, 12:26 AM
I certainly hope you don't dismiss these holy books because you're agnostic.

There is knowledge to be gained within them and it would be foolish to dismiss them as useless.

Visionz
05-15-2006, 12:27 AM
What going off topic? Maybe everything is on-topic and we're just not looking deep enough. What does agnostic mean to you?

denaturat
05-15-2006, 12:39 AM
lol... unfortunately I no longer have the luxury of being able to discuss interesting topics for hours on end. maybe we'll continue another time, since we could go about this for hours. not trying to duck the question but I gotta hit the sack soon, I got bar school 8:30 am tommorrow.

Visionz
05-15-2006, 12:45 AM
alright homie, but please lets discuss this further at a latter time, I've gotta be up at 6:30 for work myself so I won't be on here much farther but it's a conversation that should continue.

denaturat
05-15-2006, 12:51 AM
for sure...

LHX
05-15-2006, 09:01 AM
holy books capitalize on the power of suggestion


the truth is in them



as Aqueous mentioned - they cant be dismissed




you can use a hammer to kill people
but
its best function is when you use it to build things





dont even settle for being an agnostic denaturat

dont be an anything

denaturat
05-15-2006, 12:49 PM
dont even settle for being an agnostic denaturat

dont be an anything

explain

denaturat
05-15-2006, 01:16 PM
holy books capitalize on the power of suggestion


the truth is in them





the truth is best conveyed in the most precise and exact language possible. metaphors and parables can be misleading as they may mean more than one thing. you arrive at truth through logical reasoning. you have premises that lead to a conlusion. i need to know exactly what the author is saying so that i can properly consider or question it. when I am completely convinced that one particular proposition is reasonable, I move on to the next, and so on, until I can arrive at a conclusion.

the bible, the only holy book I am familiar with, spoon feeds conclusions but does not facilitate the above described reasoning process. consequently it does not truly teach. for example, Jesus said, among other things, to turn the other cheak. why? maybe it is a good principle, but the bible does not explain why (other than that you will go to heaven for being meek -- that is not an explanation, that is a reward). a person who follows biblical teachings is induced by rewards of after life in heaven. that is all he needs to know according to the bible. ultimately, do as jesus says, but why? because jesus says? that is not wisdom, that is just instruction without explanation. or maybe you shoudl do good because jesus will send you to heaven. well, that is not an explanation either, but is actually bribery.

V4D3R
06-10-2008, 08:15 PM
bump

LORD NOSE
06-26-2009, 12:09 PM
i gotta come back to this - but for now - build

Urban_Journalz
06-26-2009, 02:33 PM
I know that there is Truth in every holy book. The Qur'an is my foundation, but I don't stick to that alone. Truthfully, the only other book so far that reminds me of The Qur'an is The Book of Enoch. Namely, because the description of Judgement Day and what is to happen, is a mirror-image of The Qur'an. God's Message has indeed always been the same though. Regardless as to who decided to rewrite something, or misinterpret something else.

These books are indeed here for a reason. That reason is painfully obvious just by a mere reading of the book itself. the bulk of what is written therein is usually cut and dry, people only fall into, "interpretations", namely false ones, when they run into something that they are uncomfortable with. A lot of us forget to use our own means of insight and contemplation in order to figure out why certain rules are set forth, so instead we choose to throw our toys around and pitch a hissy-fit.

Did God sit there and write on the very pages we now read? No. Of course not. When you read though, if you were meant to grasp it, you feel the truth in the words themselves. The soul, much like the heart, does not lie; which is another reason why I believe that most people choose a weak philosophical standpoint when it comes to religion. The brain, though of vital importance, is a lot more easily convinced when it comes to accepting bullshit, as opposed to the heart and soul.

Bottom line, there are 3 sides to every story...my side....your side...and the truth. Another thing a lot of us refuse to accept, is that some people in the world actually DO know the truth, however, due to arrogance and a phobia of being wrong, most continue to waver. Every man goes his own way. I read everything I get my hands on if I feel like it's important and will give me a greater understanding of what I already know. What matters is what you do with what you know. Are you learning in order to evolve? Or are you learning in order to be yet another pain in the world's ass?

ALCATRAZ
06-26-2009, 03:10 PM
books are cool but all the knowledge you need you already have

LORD NOSE
06-26-2009, 03:48 PM
books are cool but all the knowledge you need you already have


how so ?

LHX
06-26-2009, 03:57 PM
whoa

blast from the past

WARPATH
06-26-2009, 04:04 PM
books are technology invented for the memory impaired.

LHX
06-26-2009, 04:10 PM
books are technology invented for the memory impaired.


i want everybody to print that out real big and put it on their walls


give one to your dad for a late fathers day present

Urban_Journalz
06-26-2009, 04:20 PM
^^If it actually made sense, I would.

diggy
06-26-2009, 05:06 PM
books are technology invented for the memory impaired.


Oh, so your memory is so good you do not need books?

LHX
06-26-2009, 06:06 PM
i believe that is what the man is saying


quality over quantity

WARPATH
06-26-2009, 07:38 PM
Oh, so your memory is so good you do not need books?

That is correct. I do not need books.

Urban_Journalz
06-26-2009, 08:49 PM
No matter your style, the moment you're convinced that you don't need anymore training is the moment you weaken yourself. One who knows, knows he knows nothing.

diggy
06-26-2009, 08:56 PM
^^Exactly

There is alot of info to be gotten from books.

For somebody to believe they do not need books, means they believe to not need improvement (they believe they are perfect).

Arrogance is a weakness.

WARPATH
06-26-2009, 09:30 PM
LMAO

Hold up man this cracking me up....

WARPATH
06-26-2009, 09:45 PM
No matter your style, the moment you're convinced that you don't need anymore training is the moment you weaken yourself. One who knows, knows he knows nothing.

Training for what?

One who knows, knows he knows nothing.
Is this a Urban Journals original?

^^Exactly

There is alot of info to be gotten from books.

For somebody to believe they do not need books, means they believe to not need improvement (they believe they are perfect).

Arrogance is a weakness.

Hold up so, since I don't need books that means I believe I don't need to improve? Improve what exactly? And now since you can read minds, exactly why do they (people who don't need books) believe they ( people who don't need books) are perfect. Your serious?



You guys are too much.


Things I need:

Clean air
Potable water
A woman to play with my nuts.
A woman to cook for me when I come home.
Some clothes to stay warm.
A shelter to stay out of the rain or snow.
Some love from family....

And that's it.

Ninja
06-26-2009, 10:08 PM
Which Holy book has been most precise thou? With the information its given out about events in the past? And things which can likely to occur with the information provided!

And IMO a person cant read all Holy books and choose good things from all of them and start pracising them.. cuz in some Holy books things which are considered acceptable are not in other Holy books..
for example Christians drink a little bit of red wine to resemble the blood of Christ-- so drinking wine is acceptable,,, however it is not acceptable at all in Islam.
Now a person may find some aspect of Islam to be good and also some aspects of Christianity, which one of them could be drinking alcahol--Which is acceptable in Christianity but completly Haraam in Islam--
so basically they think they're doing good but in fact they can be commiting sins!

diggy
06-26-2009, 10:42 PM
You guys are too much.


Things I need:

Clean air
Potable water
A woman to play with my nuts.
A woman to cook for me when I come home.
Some clothes to stay warm.
A shelter to stay out of the rain or snow.
Some love from family....

And that's it.


So life is limited to the elements, the physical body, and social acceptance?

That's all?






Which Holy book has been most precise thou? With the information its given out about events in the past? And things which can likely to occur with the information provided!

And IMO a person cant read all Holy books and choose good things from all of them and start pracising them.. cuz in some Holy books things which are considered acceptable are not in other Holy books..
for example Christians drink a little bit of red wine to resemble the blood of Christ-- so drinking wine is acceptable,,, however it is not acceptable at all in Islam.
Now a person may find some aspect of Islam to be good and also some aspects of Christianity, which one of them could be drinking alcahol--Which is acceptable in Christianity but completly Haraam in Islam--
so basically they think they're doing good but in fact they can be commiting sins!


There are some, in fact many, verses that put wine in a bad light. I guess some choose to ignore that just like they've ignored the "unclean" pork verse in the old testament!!!


Drinking wine to represent the blood of christ is an invention that was invented after the departure of the prophet.

WARPATH
06-27-2009, 12:44 AM
So life is limited to the elements, the physical body, and social acceptance?

That's all?





No, but that's all I need.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg/800px-Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs.svg.png

Check the red area. Once I have that covered the rest are very easy to obtain.

and........

You're just going to ignore my other questions...................

diggy
06-27-2009, 01:04 AM
and........

You're just going to ignore my other questions...................



Well...

Improve what exactly?


You don't need improvement, so never mind.

LORD NOSE
06-27-2009, 02:33 AM
dam

is everybody fed up ?

there is a strange atmosphere on the earth right now - does anyone else feel it ?

Urban_Journalz
06-27-2009, 03:34 AM
Training for what?


Is this a Urban Journals original?



Hold up so, since I don't need books that means I believe I don't need to improve? Improve what exactly? And now since you can read minds, exactly why do they (people who don't need books) believe they ( people who don't need books) are perfect. Your serious?



You guys are too much.


Things I need:

Clean air
Potable water
A woman to play with my nuts.
A woman to cook for me when I come home.
Some clothes to stay warm.
A shelter to stay out of the rain or snow.
Some love from family....

And that's it.

The training varies from student to student, so, I would do better asking you, "training for what?". Be that as it may, you've made the statement that, whatever you're training for (since studying is the first part of any training method) you've already arrived at an, "all-knowing" stage since you have no need for books.

I myself am original, so you might say this. Yes, you've basically said you don't need to improve. Improvement requires learning and learning requires some form of scholastic study. Improvement for what? Again, you could answer that better than anyone, but we all know why you're asking these obvious questions; to stray away from the fact that you've effectively made yourself look like an ass, again.

It has nothing to do with, "reading minds", you just happened to forget the fact that when you speak, people are exposed to your inner self. So there's no need for tarot cards or a crystal ball, in most cases we need only to sit back and let people talk.

Also, in the list of things you needed, you listed two very barbaric and offensive needs in regards to women, none of which even hinted on finding true love and happiness and you also put love from family last on the list.

So again you prove how horrible it is not to think before you act and you prove that you need to read a great many books. That is, of course, unless your mission in life is to just be another jaw-flapper with nothing to offer the world except another headache. Whatever makes you happy.

Urban_Journalz
06-27-2009, 03:46 AM
Which Holy book has been most precise thou? With the information its given out about events in the past? And things which can likely to occur with the information provided!

And IMO a person cant read all Holy books and choose good things from all of them and start pracising them.. cuz in some Holy books things which are considered acceptable are not in other Holy books..
for example Christians drink a little bit of red wine to resemble the blood of Christ-- so drinking wine is acceptable,,, however it is not acceptable at all in Islam.
Now a person may find some aspect of Islam to be good and also some aspects of Christianity, which one of them could be drinking alcahol--Which is acceptable in Christianity but completly Haraam in Islam--
so basically they think they're doing good but in fact they can be commiting sins!

So far The Qur'an and The Book of Enoch. There's probably more, in terms of past events and future events, but I haven't read them all yet.

Anything is possible when you have a hunger to make it your reality. The truths in all Holy Books echo eachother, so it's easy to see where the real truths are. The people that practice them have one thing above all others, they know that this life is very short and they'd rather be safe than sorry in The End. Sure, they make mistakes just like everyone else, but it's the shame, the guilt, the feeling like you've done something against God and yourself, that makes you better in spirit than someone who just says, "I'm young, I'm going to do what I want."

The soul knows when it has done wrong. It's that little voice that is as loud as a marching band to the person when they've done, or are about to do something wrong. The Qur'an teaches that God breathed into Adam of His Own Spirit. Therefore, our souls are our Divine Lighthouses of sorts and will always tell us, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what is real and what is fake. It surpasses all logic and interpretation. This is why people of Faith have such strong Faith, because they've learned to listen to their souls first and foremost. The heart has desires, strong desires, that usually don't end up working toward our benefit. The brain loves to dispute and analyze and it's disgustingly impressionable. Start with the soul and work outward.

diggy
06-27-2009, 08:42 PM
. The Qur'an teaches that God breathed into Adam of His Own Spirit... It surpasses all logic and interpretation...


Um, how does the Quran surpass logic?

Are you implying the breathing into Adam is illogical?

prof zooruka
06-27-2009, 10:14 PM
all religious books except the holy bible are from the devil.


PRAISE BE TO GOD!


peace

WARPATH
06-28-2009, 03:18 AM
The training varies from student to student, so, I would do better asking you, "training for what?". Be that as it may, you've made the statement that, whatever you're training for (since studying is the first part of any training method) you've already arrived at an, "all-knowing" stage since you have no need for books.

Why make wild assertions?

What am I supposed to be training for exactly?

I myself am original, so you might say this. Yes, you've basically said you don't need to improve. Improvement requires learning and learning requires some form of scholastic study. Improvement for what? Again, you could answer that better than anyone, but we all know why you're asking these obvious questions; to stray away from the fact that you've effectively made yourself look like an ass, again.
Where did I say I don't need to improve? Where is it? Quote me, I don't see it.

And made myself look like ass to who? You? Really?

Yes Really. Oh Really? Yes Really.

It has nothing to do with, "reading minds", you just happened to forget the fact that when you speak, people are exposed to your inner self. So there's no need for tarot cards or a crystal ball, in most cases we need only to sit back and let people talk.Here we go with the judging again. I read somewhere that you're not supposed to do that....

Oh yeah that was in the koran......and the bible. Oh shit..........


Also, in the list of things you needed, you listed two very barbaric and offensive needs in regards to women, none of which even hinted on finding true love and happiness and you also put love from family last on the list.
Offensive? You think a woman that knows how to cook and take care of a person is offensive? You really don't know any women do you? No mother or grandmother that can hook up a meal? I really feel sorry for you if you don't.

You find sex offensive too? Or you never had the joy of having your ball-sack fondled. If chick is fondling my balls you know it's true love and happiness...so I don't know what the fuck your trying to get at.

So again you prove how horrible it is not to think before you act and you prove that you need to read a great many books. That is, of course, unless your mission in life is to just be another jaw-flapper with nothing to offer the world except another headache. Whatever makes you happy.

A great many books about what?

Again you prove how arrogant, ignorant, and fucking idiotic you are.


Nah wait hold up moderators because this needs to said, read, quoted and re-quoted.


Shut the fuck up when grown folks are talking.

I never said anything about not reading books. I just said I don't need them. They're their, they serve their purpose, but they're not important.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by Urban_Journalz http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1609437#post1609437)
The training varies from student to student, so, I would do better asking you, "training for what?". Be that as it may, you've made the statement that, whatever you're training for (since studying is the first part of any training method) you've already arrived at an, "all-knowing" stage since you have no need for books.



Reading Books brings one to an all - knowing stage ?





I myself am original, so you might say this. Yes, you've basically said you don't need to improve. Improvement requires learning and learning requires some form of scholastic study.

and one has to have books in order for one to learn ?


i'm with Slippy on this one - you don't NEED books

if you want to learn how to put new cabinets in your kitchen, you may NEED a book to instruct you on how to get it done - but then there is always DVDs and other human beings that can instruct you on how to get that accomplished - LMAO a Book




just don't write books here in the reply box - long winded, filler added replies are annoying especially when the author of such is a self righteous, arrogant, hypocritical know it all religious fanatic

Cee Oh Vee
06-28-2009, 01:20 PM
dam

is everybody fed up ?

there is a strange atmosphere on the earth right now - does anyone else feel it ?

Yes, depending on location and company. But, I must agree.

Urban_Journalz
06-28-2009, 04:49 PM
Um, how does the Quran surpass logic?

Are you implying the breathing into Adam is illogical?

It surpasses logic because, as anyone who has read it knows, there are concepts within it that require faith, belief in the unseen. Nice try on twisting what I said around into something moronic though. It was a better effort than most I've seen around here.

Urban_Journalz
06-28-2009, 04:57 PM
Why make wild assertions?

What am I supposed to be training for exactly?

Where did I say I don't need to improve? Where is it? Quote me, I don't see it.

And made myself look like ass to who? You? Really?

Yes Really. Oh Really? Yes Really.

Here we go with the judging again. I read somewhere that you're not supposed to do that....

Oh yeah that was in the koran......and the bible. Oh shit..........

Offensive? You think a woman that knows how to cook and take care of a person is offensive? You really don't know any women do you? No mother or grandmother that can hook up a meal? I really feel sorry for you if you don't.

You find sex offensive too? Or you never had the joy of having your ball-sack fondled. If chick is fondling my balls you know it's true love and happiness...so I don't know what the fuck your trying to get at.



A great many books about what?

Again you prove how arrogant, ignorant, and fucking idiotic you are.


Nah wait hold up moderators because this needs to said, read, quoted and re-quoted.


Shut the fuck up when grown folks are talking.

I never said anything about not reading books. I just said I don't need them. They're their, they serve their purpose, but they're not important.

You are a sad, sad specimen. I'll never understand how you can bullshit yourself and still sleep well at night, but I suppose that's one of the great mysteries. And F.Y.I., you didn't read anything in The Qur'an because you would've quoted it word for word in order to put me in my place properly.

It's funny though, people like you are really quick to brag about themselves above other people, then, when someone points out that you, just like everyone else, has faults that you need to work on, you moan, bitch and complain about, "being judged". It's hilarious.

I know plenty of women son. Who know how to stand on their own two feet and know when their being appreciated and when their not. The types you're talking about aren't women, but birds and I hope you have fun fighting off S.T.D.s and the like. We'll see if those meals and ball-fondling was really worth it.

"I never said anything about not reading books, I just said I don't need them." :clap:

DUMBEST.....LINE.....EVER!!!!

Right up there with Nixon, "I didn't do anything wrong, and it'll never happen again." 8O

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 05:06 PM
listen man - yall gotta continue this with respect - UJ, most of your post was an insult to Slippy - most of it - slippy insulted you and i saw that - but don't make this a back and forth thing -

Urban_Journalz
06-28-2009, 05:17 PM
I'll post all the fuck I want to, as LONG as I want to.

Urban_Journalz
06-28-2009, 05:20 PM
listen man - yall gotta continue this with respect - UJ, most of your post was an insult to Slippy - most of it - slippy insulted you and i saw that - but don't make this a back and forth thing -

Mighty noble coming from someone that just insulted me, yet I'm the hypocrite? He's started on people before when he felt like it, so let him handle himself.

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 05:45 PM
i see you didn't understand - thats too bad - try again

your long winded insult will terminate in 5 minutes

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 05:58 PM
Mighty noble coming from someone that just insulted me, yet I'm the hypocrite? He's started on people before when he felt like it, so let him handle himself.


i ask yall to be respectful
and i ask that for good reason

and all you can come up with is

He started it ...... ?

grow up son


and NO you will not post what you want to how long you want to

respect the cyper or get tossed out of it

Urban_Journalz
06-28-2009, 06:16 PM
i ask yall to be respectful
and i ask that for good reason

and all you can come up with is

He started it ...... ?

grow up son


and NO you will not post what you want to how long you want to

respect the cyper or get tossed out of it

I'll respect it when it's exercised all over the forum and it isn't either some favoritism shit, or a case of being butt-hurt over having been called out on one's obvious stupidity and having no means of viable arguement, you decide to pull some, "pack your shit and leave" scenario. Yet you're telling me to grow up. You're a clown son. And a hypocrite. That equality shit you spout should have, "Void where prohibited" attached to it.

I LOVE how you very nicely made no comment as to the various insults you threw at me earlier. But I guess your special status on the site makes the rules you just spouted obsolete in your case right?

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 06:23 PM
I'll respect it when it's exercised all over the forum


No - you'll respect it now or be removed from this forum


Try it if you want to, see what happens.

ok

Prolifical ENG
06-28-2009, 07:05 PM
listen man - yall gotta continue this with respect - UJ, most of your post was an insult to Slippy - most of it - slippy insulted you and i saw that - but don't make this a back and forth thing -

Sorry UJ, maybe you didnt understand this post. I guess it seemed like it was "aimed" more at you but it just happens that you are the last to respond and are online now. It was directed at both parties and I don't see favoritism.

Two people can spar in a room. After a while two strong people fighting and increasing their force in that room will break everything in it.

Now lets hit the books instead.

Urban_Journalz
06-28-2009, 07:15 PM
Sorry UJ, maybe you didnt understand this post. I guess it seemed like it was "aimed" more at you but it just happens that you are the last to respond and are online now. It was directed at both parties and I don't see favoritism.

Two people can spar in a room. After a while two strong people fighting and increasing their force in that room will break everything in it.

Now lets hit the books instead.

You got a point Pro.

Peace.

diggy
06-28-2009, 08:49 PM
It surpasses logic because, as anyone who has read it knows, there are concepts within it that require faith, belief in the unseen. Nice try on twisting what I said around into something moronic though. It was a better effort than most I've seen around here.


Belief in the unseen what?

Allah?

Belief in Allah requires NO "faith"; it requires LOGIC and reflection.

The signs of Allah's wisdom and power are all around us and in us. OBSERVING Allah's creation bring faith. Faith does NOT come before observing.



Read:

45:5- And in the alternation of night and day, and in the means of sustenance - water - which Allah sends down from the sky whereby He gave life to the earth after its death, and in the movement of the winds - (in all these) are signs for people of intellect.






The Quran contradicts your claim that belief in the unseen requires faith and not logic!!!

What book are you reading, Urban???


I have just shown you a verse that belief requires seeing and logic.

Now show me, (IF U CAN) a verse that says you need faith without seeing and without logic!!!!!!!

Olive Oil Goombah
06-28-2009, 08:58 PM
what is Allah??? ...exactly?

Is it a spiritual being? A physical being?

is it a metaphor for everything?

What is God? is it a a guy sitting in heaven that created everything??

Is it the force or 'thing' that created the universe?


What are these things exactly. Who gets to define them. Is it all personal definitions?

My point is that are 'church' or 'mosque' gathering necessary or do they only force the inevitability of corruption and denominations and the factioning off of beliefs.


If these holy books are just merely moral guidlines, with ambiguous explanations regarding the creation of the world, why not update them?


Are the monotheistic religions (to narrow it down) becoming archaic?

Do we need to modernize these religions and stop trying to live in the past while in this present stage of human existence.


Maybe its time for an updated set of guidlines.....one written in a more modern tone that is more relatable to the people of today.

just thinking as i have been questioning alot lately in terms of 'religion'...more so than at any time in my life before

LORD NOSE
06-28-2009, 09:03 PM
what is Allah??? ...exactly?

Is it a spiritual being? A physical being?

is it a metaphor for everything?

What is God? is it a a guy sitting in heaven that created everything??

Is it the force or 'thing' that created the universe?


What are these things exactly. Who gets to define them. Is it all personal definitions?

My point is that are 'church' or 'mosque' gathering necessary or do they only force the inevitability of corruption and denominations and the factioning off of beliefs.


If these holy books are just merely moral guidlines, with ambiguous explanations regarding the creation of the world, why not update them?


Are the monotheistic religions (to narrow it down) becoming archaic?

Do we need to modernize these religions and stop trying to live in the past while in this present stage of human existence.


Maybe its time for an updated set of guidlines.....one written in a more modern tone that is more relatable to the people of today.

just thinking as i have been questioning alot lately in terms of 'religion'...more so than at any time in my life before

these words are those keys

diggy
06-28-2009, 09:38 PM
My point is that are 'church' or 'mosque' gathering necessary or do they only force the inevitability of corruption and denominations and the factioning off of beliefs.

These are not necessary.


If these holy books are just merely moral guidlines, with ambiguous explanations regarding the creation of the world, why not update them?

There is no need to update that which is timeless.


Are the monotheistic religions (to narrow it down) becoming archaic?

Yes.

Do we need to modernize these religions and stop trying to live in the past while in this present stage of human existence.

No. Religions need to be abandoned. They are a con.


Maybe its time for an updated set of guidlines.....one written in a more modern tone that is more relatable to the people of today.

The guidelines are not old to begin with.


As for "what is Allah" and other questions related to that, refer to the Quran.

Mumm Ra
06-28-2009, 11:10 PM
and one has to have books in order for one to learn ?


i'm with Slippy on this one - you don't NEED books
I agree as well
...how did all these books get written in the first place?
all knowledge started as intuition/ insight before it was physically written
I wouldn't be one to diminish the importance of books tho - they can offer you viewpoints in a short amount of time that may otherwise take years to come to on your own.

LORD NOSE
06-29-2009, 12:51 AM
biggie and Jayz don't need no books lol .....to write down rhymes

Mumm Ra
06-29-2009, 01:41 AM
word
shaq rza and mef don't need no hooks

LORD NOSE
06-29-2009, 11:00 AM
Al-Baqarah Chapter 2 : Verse 130

‘And, our Lord, raise up among them a Messenger from among themselves, who may recite to them Thy Signs and teach them the Book and Wisdom and may purify them; surely, Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.’



Al-Ma'idah Chapter 5 : Verse 111


When Allah will say, “O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My favour upon thee and upon thy mother; when I strengthened thee with the Spirit of holiness so that thou didst speak to the people in the cradle and in middle age; and when I taught thee the Book and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when thou didst fashion a creation out of clay, in the likeness of a bird, by My command; then thou didst breathe into it a new spirit and it became a soaring being by My command; and thou didst heal the night-blind and the leprous by My command; and when thou didst raise the dead by My command; and when I restrained the children of Israel from putting thee to death when thou didst come to them with clear Signs; and those who disbelieved from among them said, ‘This is nothing but clear deception.’”

WARPATH
06-29-2009, 01:34 PM
And F.Y.I., you didn't read anything in The Qur'an because you would've quoted it word for word in order to put me in my place properly.




Quran 46 : 9 Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. God is the ONLY one who can judge humans.

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 07:34 PM
And seriously, stop yelling. Did you really think it would be that easy to piss me off? You can't control me. Really, judging from the abundant use of caps, you can't seem to control yourself either.

You use caps, another erases what I post and then digs up old threads and starts new ones all at my expense? This is a high contradiction of the idea that I'm as unimportant as you would like to convince yourselves that I am, does it not?

LORD NOSE
06-29-2009, 07:42 PM
And seriously, stop yelling. Did you really think it would be that easy to piss me off? You can't control me. Really, judging from the abundant use of caps, you can't seem to control yourself either.

You use caps, another erases what I post and then digs up old threads and starts new ones all at my expense? This is a high contradiction of the idea that I'm as unimportant as you would like to convince yourselves that I am, does it not?


grow up soon son



another erases what I post and then digs up old threads and starts new ones all at my expense? This is a high contradiction of the idea that I'm as unimportant as you would like to convince yourselves that I am, does it not?



i swear to you i'm not thinking about you at all when i raise threads - at all - i usually skip past your post because your arrogant self righteous way of doing what you may call "schoolin someone" is annoying - again - come correct or don't come at all -

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 08:03 PM
Exactly my point. You want me to change my personality to suite you, which is why you insist on going on this merry-go-round. Take your own advice o.k.?

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 08:04 PM
And I'd appreciate it if you would leave the post that I sent to Slippy alone, because it really has nothing to do with you. Now you're just being ridiculous.

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 08:28 PM
On a lighter, note, personally, I find books to be quite mojo. Others may not need them, but I do because I've been a geek since birth.

diggy
06-29-2009, 09:16 PM
I see you skipped my post, Urban. Show me how certain things in Islam require faith and not logic!!!

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 10:00 PM
I see you skipped my post, Urban. Show me how certain things in Islam require faith and not logic!!!

Easy x, I didn't skip it, it was deleted amidst a swarm of mutual chaos. I didn't forget about you.

Surah 49:14 "The desert Arabs say, "We believe" Say, O Muhammad, "Ye have no Faith; but ye only say, 'We have submitted our will to Allah' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts...." Taking Shahada is one thing, that makes you Muslim, however, in order to be a believer, you have to have faith.

Logic and contemplation go into strengthening the Faith, but Faith in itself is more like a sudden flash of lightening to the soul. In most cases, with me anyway, it comes out of nowhere from having read, watched or listened to something.

You say that belief in Allah requires no Faith, but I think you should read about those who reject Faith as well.

Surah 2:6-7 "As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them wether thou warn them or warn them not, they will not believe. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they incur."

So, not only is Faith a must in Islam, but to ignore it means to suffer in this life and in the next. I see no contradictions between what I say and what The Qur'an says.

diggy
06-29-2009, 10:11 PM
Easy x, I didn't skip it, it was deleted amidst a swarm of mutual chaos. I didn't forget about you.

Surah 49:14 "The desert Arabs say, "We believe" Say, O Muhammad, "Ye have no Faith; but ye only say, 'We have submitted our will to Allah' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts...." Taking Shahada is one thing, that makes you Muslim, however, in order to be a believer, you have to have faith.

Logic and contemplation go into strengthening the Faith, but Faith in itself is more like a sudden flash of lightening to the soul. In most cases, with me anyway, it comes out of nowhere from having read, watched or listened to something.


Faith is like a flash of lightening?

Nope.

Faith requires Yaqin (certainty) and Yaqin is acquired thru the senses and contemplation.


You say that belief in Allah requires no Faith, but I think you should read about those who reject Faith as well.

Surah 2:6-7 "As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them wether thou warn them or warn them not, they will not believe. Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they incur."


This is a very, very, very bad translation.

I've checked my Quran, and the word Iman for faith is NOT used.

I don't know what you're reading from, but you may wanna get a translation that is more accurate!!!



So, not only is Faith a must in Islam, but to ignore it means to suffer in this life and in the next. I see no contradictions between what I say and what The Qur'an says.

One cannot ignore faith. That is a ridiculous statement you've made. Again, faith is based on the senses and intelligence. If a person comes to a conclusion of faith based on sensing and reflecting, how could it be ignored by them afterward? It is like seeing water, and them disbelieving in it after you've seen it...makes no sense.

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 10:14 PM
Quran 46 : 9 Say: "I am no bringer of new-fangled doctrine among the apostles, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. God is the ONLY one who can judge humans.



True, on the Day of Judgement, when all is said and done, He is the only One who can judge humans. You forget the other parts of The Qur'an that speak of the enlightened men and women who, following Prophet Muhammad's (pbuh) example, are allowed, ordered even, to judge between mankind by what Allah has decreed in The Recital (Al-Qur'an)

Surah 4:105 "We have sent down The Book, that thou mightest judge between men, as guided by Allah...."

Surah 5:48 "To thee We sent The Scripture in truth, confirming The Scripture that went before it and guarding it in safety. So judge between them (mankind) by what Allah hath revealed...."

We know when someone is of good heart or of evil heart simply by their intentions, habits, etc. Whenever someone is called out on what they're doing, that they know isn't right, usually, you'll hear, "Don't judge me!" Right is always above wrong though and the true Judgement is far worse than that which Allah has allowed to mankind.

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 10:22 PM
Faith is like a flash of lightening?

Nope.

Faith requires Yaqin (certainty) and Yaqin is acquired thru the senses and contemplation.





This is a very, very, very bad translation.

I've checked my Quran, and the word Iman for faith is NOT used.

I don't know what you're reading from, but you may wanna get a translation that is more accurate!!!



So, not only is Faith a must in Islam, but to ignore it means to suffer in this life and in the next. I see no contradictions between what I say and what The Qur'an says.

I do recall saying, "at least to me"....faith is like a flash of lightening. I don't know how it is for other people, but don't try to tell me how my inspiration comes to me because you have no grounds.

The Yusuf Ali translation is the most comprehensible and most widely used translation of The Qur'an, so I'll go with the majority this time, because if the lot of Arab-Americans trust it, that's good enough for me. Like I told you before, in the end, how the message is applied to daily life will be far greater, IS far greater in importance, than the root meaning of a few words.

A ridiculous statement? I also recall you saying, "Belief in Allah requires NO Faith". You're saying you don't need Faith in understanding Allah, The Unseen, Islam, etc. yet you're saying that one cannot ignore Faith. Did I miss something, because that looks like a contradiction to me. You're saying that all you need is logic and reflection. That's usually what people who call themselves, "atheists" bring to an arguement you know. At least their form of it. Not saying you're one, just pointing out that to have more faith in the more scientific aspects of creation as opposed to the more spiritual/mystical aspects is just like trying to divide a tree from it's root. It'll never, ever work.

diggy
06-29-2009, 10:35 PM
Whatever man.

I mostly show and prove by writting statements and backing it up with Quranic verses.

It is too bad you do not care that the word Iman was not used in that verse you've posted. It is too bad. You are rejecting the truth of the matter stubbornly.

This verse that I'm about to post, shows and proves that faith comes after seeing and reflecting:

Translation:

3:190 - Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth and the difference of night and day are tokens for men of understanding.

3:191 - Such as remember Allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord! Thou createdst not this in vain. Glory be to Thee! Preserve us from doom of Fire!


Let those who have eyes see.

diggy
06-29-2009, 10:39 PM
The Yusuf Ali translation is the most comprehensible and most widely used translation of The Qur'an, so I'll go with the majority this time, because if the lot of Arab-Americans trust it, that's good enough for me...



"If you obeyed most of those on Earth, they would divert you from Allah's Way. They follow nothing but conjecture. They are only guessing" (Surat al-An'am: 116).

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 10:41 PM
Whatever man.

I mostly show and prove by writting statements and backing it up with Quranic verses.

It is too bad you do not care that the word Iman was not used in that verse you've posted. It is too bad. You are rejecting the truth of the matter stubbornly.

This verse that I'm about to post, shows and proves that faith comes after seeing and reflecting:

Translation:

3:190 - Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth and the difference of night and day are tokens for men of understanding.

3:191 - Such as remember Allah, standing, sitting, and reclining, and consider the creation of the heavens and the earth: Our Lord! Thou createdst not this in vain. Glory be to Thee! Preserve us from doom of Fire!


Let those who have eyes see.

As I said, contemplation and reflection do have their places in increasing Faith. What I'm saying is that by you saying that you don't need Faith to recognize Allah, that was a seriously bad choice of words. Truthfully, without one, all of them fail.

I'm quite familiar with these verses and they are indeed very true. I apply what is written therein when I find myself swaying. In meditating on His creation though, that's when I find my Faith growing. I say it was like a lightening flash to me, because when I first started reading my Qur'an a lot of it rang so true and so natural to me, it was more of an, "Oh SHIT!!" moment for me, instead of a, "Meditate upon this, I will." As it may be for other people.

I may not know Arabic, but I do know enough to know that many terms can be used interchangeably and this was obviously one of them. I doubt that the man would've used a word that didn't at all match the Arabic word some kind of way.

Urban_Journalz
06-29-2009, 10:59 PM
"If you obeyed most of those on Earth, they would divert you from Allah's Way. They follow nothing but conjecture. They are only guessing" (Surat al-An'am: 116).

This verse is talking about the ones who believe in false gods and have no faith in Allah and The Hereafter, this does not apply to me and I'd appreciate if you stopped grabbing at straws.

To follow most of those on Earth, I would be calling The Qur'an nothing more than a well written book, having little to no faith in Heaven and Hell, calling The Messngers fairy-tale heroes and have more faith in Justin Timberlake than I did in the laws of the universe. Don't misinterpret scripture to suit your own whims. You and I both know this doesn't apply to me.