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redemption
05-15-2006, 05:07 PM
Do you consider Poker a sport?
In some counties poker is a more popular spectator sport than the national sport, and it's only growing in popularity
Every week PokerStars has a 1million dollar prize pool tournament, and pokerroom has just announced a $5m tournament... I think thats the biggest online prize pool ever. Just shows how much money is floating around in the poker world, crazy.
peace


EDIT 31/10/2012:

woah I started this thread in '06 and now there are 48 pages?

It's funny because I did well from poker, but nowadays at least online the edge is much smaller. The effort required to be profitable at a decent level is so large that in most cases it's not worth it. There are better ways to make money than poker, so my advice as someone who played semi-professionally for eight years is just keep it casual. This is coming from a profitable poker player of small/mid stakes.

Advice to anyone reading who's considering online poker as a main source of income:

I'm assuming you live in a 1st world country. You really need to be crushing mid-stakes and be a proven winner for poker to (maybe) be worth pursuing. That is very fucking hard to achieve in 2012. The reason is that people forget about the things they are sacrificing when they get involved in this game. Even if you are a winning player 4-tabling 400nl at 5 ptbb/hr or whatever earning sick hourly rates in the $100s, it's still not good enough. The point is - do you have what it takes to move up? Poker is volatile - in 2008 legislation forced pros in the US to quit. The game is always changing. These are just two examples.

Your poker hourly rate isn't comparable to a true work hourly rate, this is important to understand.

This is a generalisation though - if you have no other options or are sure you have what it takes, then go for it. But for the overwhelming majority of people: do something else, play live, learn some skills etc - there is higher Ev elsewhere and easier money to be made, and life is better outside of the poker world.
Poker pros making far more money than midstakes regs have quit because of this fact. See: timex, shaun deeb.

Gl

Luther Large
05-15-2006, 05:38 PM
Do you consider Poker a sport?
In some counties poker is a more popular spectator sport than the national sport, and it's only growing in popularity
Every week PokerStars has a 1million dollar prize pool tournament, and pokerroom has just announced a $5m tournament... I think thats the biggest online prize pool ever. Just shows how much money is floating around in the poker world, crazy.
peace

HELL NO!!!! how the fuck is poker a sport is bares no resembalance to any real sports at all


POKER IS A cardGAME NOT A SPORT!!!!!

Right.
05-15-2006, 06:07 PM
Face

King Justice
05-15-2006, 06:13 PM
HELL NO!!!! how the fuck is poker a sport is bares no resembalance to any real sports at all


POKER IS A cardGAME NOT A SPORT!!!!! WE ARE NOW READY TO START THE WORLD SERIES OF DICE:lmao:
With Ashy Larry, Grits and Gravy, Phyuck Yiu, Leonard Washington

J-Cee
05-22-2006, 04:02 AM
Thatll be phat.Im backin Gritz and Gravy.But Phuck Yui will be a good challenger.

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 07:31 PM
Hello, this is the beautifulrock, 12 year veteran of the game of poker. I am well versed(I say versed because poker is a language or form of communication if you will....) in the nuances and logic behind the game of poker. I have read over 40 poker books including SuperSystem, Sklansky's The theory of poker, CARO'S book of tells, championship omaha by TJ Cloutier, and Harrington on Hold Em volumes I,II,and III. I know all the percentages and can help those with questions on how to improve their game and reach the highest level of poker knowledge...
Here is a list of games I can discuss with you.
LIMIT HOLD 'EM
POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM
NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM
LIMIT OMAHA HI
POT LIMIT OMAHA HIGH
LIMIT OMAHA HI/LO
POT LIMIT OMAHA HI/LO
NO LIMIT OMAHA HI/LO
SEVEN CARD STUD LIMIT
SEVEN CARD STUD POT LIMIT
SEVEN CARD STUD HI/LO LIMIT
RAZZ
PINEAPPLE
CRAZY PINEAPPLE
TRIPLE DRAW DEUCE TO SEVEN
HORSE (LIMIT- HOLD 'EM, OMAHA HI/LO, RAZZ, 7STUD, 8 OR BETTER STUD)
HA (POT LIMIT HOLD 'EM, POT LIMIT OMAHA)
HOSE (HORSE WITHOUT RAZZ)
5 CARD DRAW
5 CARD STUD
GUTS (2,3 OR 5 CARD)
OR ANY HOME GAMES YOU CAN THINK OF LIKE BASEBALL ETC....

I ALSO KNOW RARELY PLAYED GAMES LIKE SUPER HOLD EM AND SHANGHAI...

so if you have any questions or comments about the game i love, post them here.....

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 08:22 PM
1st things 1st. What is poker?

poker is a game in which 5 cards are dealt to make up a poker hand. The winner is determined by rank order of hands. While it is not necessary to wager or bet to play poker, i dont recommend it. (no fun) Sklansky sums up poker best. Poker is about making good decisions, and the chip tally is a result of such decisions. While you can have a bad day and every good decision goes badly, think of your poker career as infinate, meaning if you always try and make the right decision every time you play, over the long haul you WILL be a winning player. Math, patience, and poker intuition are the tools you use to make these decisions and if all are finely tuned, you WILL become a winner.

Rank order of poker hands from best to worst:

STRAIGHT FLUSH-5 suited cards in order...ex. 9H,8H,7H,6H,5H
the highest of these hands (AKQJT suited) is called a royal flush, the granddaddy of all hands, if you play enough you may see 4 or 5 in your lifetime.

FOUR OF A KIND-exactly what it says 4 like cards...ex. KH,KC,KS,KD,4S
also called quads
FULL HOUSE- 3 of a kind + 2 of a kind.....ex. AH,AD,AC,9S,9H
also called a boat
FLUSH- 5 like suited cards of no particular rank,flushes are ranked by the high card in the flush.....ex. AS,QS,7S,5S,2S....beats.... KH,JH,TH,9H,4H the highest flush possible is also called the NUT FLUSH
STRAIGHT- 5 cards running in rank with different suits...ex. 5H,6D,7S,8H,9D in a straight the ace may count as either high or low, but never both. either AKQJT(BROADWAY) OR A2345(THE WHEEL OR BICYCLE) NEVER, QKA23-the straight cannot go "around the corner"
3 OF A KIND- 3 cards in the same rank.... ex.8S,8H,8C,4D,2S also called TRIPS or a SET
2 PAIR- 2 pairs with an off card... ex. QS,QH,JD,JH,8D
1 PAIR- 1 matching rank in the hand.... ex. 7S,7H,KD,TS,3H
HIGH CARD- when you have nothing, hands are ranked by the highest card in the hand ex. AS,QD,9S,4H,2C beats KH,QH,TD,9C,2S

when both players have the same hand, hands are then decided by kicker or off card, ex.....HAND 1 AS,AH,QD,QS,9D.......HAND 2 AC,AD,QH,QC,7S
both players have 2 pair aces and queens but hand 1 has a "9 kicker" which beats hand 2's "7 kicker"

since poker is the best 5 cards, even in a seven card game like holdem or stud the 6th or 7th cards do not matter, many amateurs make the mistake of playing 3 pair which does not exist or play a "kicker" with their straight which is not possible. if both players have exactly the same straight or 5 card hand, the pot is split in half and both players win half the pot.

baby jesus
03-25-2007, 08:33 PM
Alright I Got A Question For You I Play Tournment Style With Like 18 kids But There Is Unlimited Buy Ins Till Like 2 Hours In So People Tend To Play Loose And Call Alot Of Shit. So My Question Is How Do I Take Down A Pot If I'm Not Getting Any Cards To Play With?

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 08:49 PM
ahhh... great question...
how do you consider yourself as a player? are you better than your competition or worse? do you read hands well? how big is your bankroll? are you capable of rebuying more than once? do the blinds skyrocket after the rebuy period of stay relatively stable?

if you answer these questions i can help you redefine how you want to play.

for me, heres how i first approached rebuys, and how i now approach them.

my 1st rebuy tournament ever was at foxwoods. I figured the level of competition was obviously better so i took the tact of trying to push all in with my big hands preflop. this worked for me early as i doubled and broke several players early, but as the tourny went on i felt myself getting less and less premium hands and as a result i was blinded out mercilessly but still managed an 11th place finish despite playing incredibly tight for 3 hours after the rebuy period.

Now I play a completely different style. Although I still may choose to raise big with premium hands from time to time, I prefer to see as many cheep flops as possible, because i find myself concentrating less on what i have and more on what they have. Try to read your opponent, and constantly ask yourself questions like. why did he make that bet? why did he check? why did his posture change when that card fell? what has he done in the past? is he on a draw? why is he acting so weak/strong? many times the key to winning pots is based on a well timed bluff, many dont understand that in order to pull off a bluff the things you do must make sense. you cant just check/call the entire way and then throw a big bet in and expect it to work. the play must make sense. And Rule #1 when playing bad players is.....

DONT TRY TO BLUFF A PLAYER THAT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE MOVE.
most bad players either cannot get away from a decent hand or don't even care what you are playing they call irregardless..

anyway hit me back explaining in more detail your situation and i can help you further....

baby jesus
03-25-2007, 08:58 PM
ahhh... great question...
how do you consider yourself as a player? are you better than your competition or worse? do you read hands well? how big is your bankroll? are you capable of rebuying more than once? do the blinds skyrocket after the rebuy period of stay relatively stable?
I'm Equal With My Competition. I Got Some People Pinned But Others I Dont Have A Clue Not Really Good Reader. I Try Not To Buy Back Sometimes If I Get Eliminated Early I Can't Help Myself But I Dont Like To. Yeah Once The Buy Backs Are Over The Blinds Start To Skyrocket. I Usually Play Conservativly I Dont Know If That Helps.

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 08:58 PM
a couple more questions for you...
are the tables closer to 9 handed or more like 5-6 handed?
how big of a chip stack do you start with and what is the limits of the 1st blind?
is the tournament early or late at night?
are they really kids? what ages?

baby jesus
03-25-2007, 09:01 PM
9
600 dollars in chips
blinds start and 5 and 10
late at night shit goes till like 3 or 4
naaa 18-26 year olds

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 09:04 PM
ok ill map out a plan of attack for you, but right now family guy is on, so check back in a half hour ok ....

baby jesus
03-25-2007, 09:08 PM
Cool, Also We Obviously Dont Play With 600 Dollars It's 20 Dollar Buy Ins But In Theory We Get 600 dollars In Chips Or You Can Say 6.00 Dollars So I Dont Know If That Helps Out Also.

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 09:51 PM
with the blinds at 5/10 and 600 in chips you have 60 big blinds to start, this is above average for a live tourny but below for an internet tourny. you have more than enough to play tight for a while, but you have to find a hand eventually. i suggest to start stick to this formula
n=number of players at the table

2/n= %of hands you should play per round

example if there are 10 players 2/10= 20% or two out of 10 hands
8 players 2/8 = 25% or 2.5 out of ten hands
4 players 2/4 = 50% of hands
3 players 2/3 = 67% of hands
heads up 2/2 = all hands meaning no hand isn't worth at least a call of the bb heads up

with this in mind, you must pick the proper starting hands, at the beginning start with these hands not in the blinds

ANY PAIR
ACE KING
ACE QUEEN
ACE JACK
ACE TEN SUITED ONLY
KING QUEEN
KING JACK SUITED ONLY
QUEEN JACK
JACK TEN SUITED ONLY


LATER ON AFTER THE BREAK IS WHEN YOU WANT TO OPEN UP YOUR GAME AS THOSE LEFT WILL UNDOUBTEDLY TIGHTEN UP A BIT.

ANY PAIR
ANY ACE
ANY SUITED KING OR QUEEN
ANY SUITED CONNECTOR
ANY HIGH NON-SUITED CONNECTOR

you are going to want to change up your game after the break, raising much more preflop, and trying to steal as much as possible. since the rebuy is over most will not want to go broke and tighten up. the ones you really want to go after are the ones with the most invested, so try to pay attention to who is rebuying a lot and who looks desperate for a win. those are the people you can take advantage of. always remember pushing is much better than calling heres 3 reasons why...

1. they have to call
2. they have to have the better hand
3. they have to win

all these things must be in line in order for them to win. otherwise the pot belongs to you. remember:
IN NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM CALLING IS A WEAK PLAY

in terms of your competition, try to lump them in one of these 4 catagories

1. loose aggressive- play many hands and raise constantly
2. loose conservative- see many flops but dont make many plays
3. tight aggressive- play very few hands but play them very fast
4. tight conservative- play few hands and play them slow

for you to be most successful against your competition before the break, you want to play like a 3 if you think your competition to be superior and a 4 if you think your competition to be inferior. after the break you want to switch between a 1 and a 3 to keep your opponents off balance, in the tourny you described, playing like a 2 at any time is probably a mistake. and when raising preflop your raise should be between 3-5 times the blind mostly, only going all in with hands such as JJ, QQ, TT, and AK, these are the hand you either want to steal with or get in a coinflip situation, also if called many times you will be a dominating favorite.

The biggest piece of advice i can give you regarding any tournament is this....
A TOURNAMENT IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY HANDS YOU PLAY IT MATTERS HOW LONG YOU LAST, SO DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY TIGHT.

dont hunt for hands they will come to you eventually just use patience

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 10:12 PM
think of hold 'em as a guessing game, always try to put your competition on two cards, some are impossible to read as they will play anything, or dont understand the game or what they are doing, but for the most part the bets people place are for a reason and logically deducing that reason is key to reading the game.

example. your opponent raises 3 times the blind and you call with a pair of 7s

the flop comes k52

your opponent checks to you.

why?

1. he has a hand like aq or aj and has missed the board.
2. he has a pair like yours and is afraid of the king
3 your opponent has hit a set and is trapping
4 your opponent was trying to steal preflop and has no hand at all.

well there is only 2 courses of action here.

1. check and gain no further information on the hand
2. bet and judge from his response where you are.

you place a bet half the size of the pot.

your opponent checkraises all in.

why?

1. your opponent believes you to be weak and is making a play
2. your opponent has a monster and has trapped you

most likely in this scenario is #2 you can postulate they have either ak,kk,55,22, or aa

you fold and your opponent shows a set of kings

why you bet? by not betting there, you risk hitting your set and going broke from an unfoldable hand.

REMEMBER:ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION ALWAYS GATHER INFORMATION

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 10:15 PM
Rollie If You Want More Info On How To Play The Blinds Regarding Pot Odds, Let Me Know And I'll Explain Further

Prolifical ENG
03-25-2007, 10:19 PM
When do you think the best times are to slow play high pockets, AK and AQ suited? (if there is a time for you)

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 11:07 PM
well, many players like to use what i call an "amateur play" by limping in 1st position with aces or kings then checkraising once the play gets back to them. This is an incorrect play for 2 reasons.
1. more people can limp and your stuck in an unraised pot with multiple callers with no information.
2. The play is a dead giveaway.

personal example: I was in a 100k guaranteed online tournament close to the bubble.
1st position limped and i raised 6 times the blind(a huge raise) with queens. the blinds folded and 1st position checkraised me all in. I used up my entire time bank while considering the play.
why would he make the play?
1. he has aces kings or ace king and was trying to trap me
well in this case im either crushed or a 50-50 and i dont want to risk my entire tourny on a coin flip. or
2. he has qq, jj, tt and played the hand poorly, remember most would not play those hands that way, as those hands are easily beaten by a bad flop so most raise right away
3. he has nothing and saw my button raise as a steal attempt. keeping in mind that my raise was huge and not the same size as an average steal on the button.

I came to the conclusion that it was likely he had aces or kings. i folded and just to show off(if i was wrong i was a donkey) showed my queens and he reciprocated by showing his aces. one of a few times i have folded queens preflop, I was congratulated by the entire table, who then proceded to try and steal from me relentlessly. so you see I played it perfectly, but by showing my lay down was labled as supertight and a marked man(this is why you never show) but i still felt great about the play. Most likely folding there earned me 400 dollars as i eventually cashed.


As far as slowplaying hands like aces or kings, save it for the cash games, as individual hands are placed in more importance in the cash games. if you are worried about being deceptive, i would say make your raises as constant as possible, if I raise 4 times the blind every time i raise, nobody will put me on aces and it is possible to trap a reraise. remember if you raise in 1st position with those hands, you are likely to trap your opponent for all their money if you are reraised.

ak and aq - these are the most misplayed hands in all of holdem. people forget that aceking is nothing more that a pretty looking drawing hand. many many amateurs still find it impossible to get away from even when they are facing a raise and a reraise preflop or a flop in which they dont hit. dont fall into this trap. while it is a proper play to raise preflop with these hands, if you find it difficult to get away from,(especially early in a tourny) try playing them slower. this has a twofold effect.
1. It is easier to get away from
2. You are in better position to trap a weaker ace or king.

ace queen is a travesty. worst best hand in hold 'em. more people bust with ace queen in a tournament than any other hand. this is because people find it hard to get away from preflop. my rule of thumb is this..

IF FACED WITH A RAISE AND A RERAISE PREFLOP GET AWAY FROM ACE QUEEN. IT IS VERY VERY LIKELY YOU ARE BEAT OR DOMINATED.

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 11:12 PM
See my thoughts on why you should almost never play k9 tomorrow!

beautifulrock
03-25-2007, 11:37 PM
So what did we learn today? some thoughtS to remember

1.DONT TRY TO BLUFF A PLAYER THAT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND THE MOVE.

2.IN NO LIMIT HOLD 'EM CALLING IS A WEAK PLAY

3.A TOURNAMENT IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY HANDS YOU PLAY IT MATTERS HOW LONG YOU LAST, SO DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY TIGHT.

4.ALWAYS PAY ATTENTION ALWAYS GATHER INFORMATION

5.IF FACED WITH A RAISE AND A RERAISE PREFLOP GET AWAY FROM ACE QUEEN. IT IS VERY VERY LIKELY YOU ARE BEAT OR DOMINATED.

and one last rule to remember...

6. NEVER LIE TO YOURSELF

beautifulrock
03-26-2007, 11:37 AM
A BOOK OF REASONS WHY YOU SHOULD NOT PLAY KING 9


CHAPTER 1 BOTTOM 2 TRAPS YOU

This happened to me recently in an online tournament.

I was in the big blind with king 9 suited spades and the table(9 handed) folded around to the button, who made a standard raise about 3 1/2 times the big blind. Since I was getting about 2 to 1 odds on my money to call and people tend to try and steal on the button, I decided to call.
The flop came

AS KH 9H

Now I had done it. I had gone and flopped bottom two pair with an ace and a flush draw on board. Not wanting to let a draw or a bad ace draw cheaply, I made a pot sized bet, about 10% of my stack, and he came over the top for the minimum. This bet confused me. It showed a lot of strength because it didn't seem like he was trying to blow me off the hand. I guessed he probably had a hand like AQ or AJ of hearts and was on top pair, nut flush draw. So I flat called and decided to see the turn in case a heart, or another ace fell (counterfeiting my hand) and the turn came a 2 of spades giving me the nut flush draw in spades. At this point I concluded that I probably had the best hand and a nut flush draw as a back-up plan in case I didn't. I didnt want to risk seeing the river so I pushed all in.
My opponent pondered for a long time and begrudgingly called showing the A6 of hearts. He had top pair with a weak kicker and the nut flush draw in hearts.

I counted his outs: 6 of clubs, 6 of diamonds (the 6 of spades gives me the nut flush), 2 of diamonds, 2 of clubs, (these hands counterfeit my two pair giving him aces up)
ace of clubs, ace of diamonds(also counterfeitting my two pair giving him a set)
and his flush outs QH,JH,TH,8H,7H,5H,4H,3H,2H (DON'T COUNT THE 2H TWICE!)
so thats 15 OUTS X 2.25% = 34% not a good % to be facing with your entire stack on the line. 2 to 1 can be ugly friends and when the deuce of hearts showed up on the river I quite simply wanted to puke. I mean shit he beat twice with the same card!

this story isn't a direct attack on king 9, really, but is one scenario with the board A K 9 in which the "dawg" hand can get you in trouble. this story is more an outline of the dangers of bottom two pair, which I recommend playing fast and strong early to protect your hand. bottom 2 pair is a hand that can go to shit easily.

coming soon CHAPTER 2 MAYDAY! MAYDAY! KICKER TROUBLES!

beautifulrock
03-26-2007, 12:35 PM
Here is how K9 suited stacks up against other frequently played hands
...................................K9............. ...tie
AKoffsuit=71%...............28%..............1%
KQoffsuit=66%...............28%..............5%
KJoffsuit=65%................28%..............7%
KToffsuit=63%...............27%.............10%
AQoffsuit=59%...............40%............<1%
AJoffsuit=60%...............40%.............<1%
AToffsuit=60%...............40%............<1%
A9offsuit=68%...............30%..............2%
AAnosuit=82%...............18%............<1%
KK.........=87%...............12%.............1%
QQnosuit=68%...............32%............<1%
JJnosuit..=68%...............32%............<1%
TTnosuit.=68%..............32%.............<1%
99..........=64%..............34%..............2%

These are 14 very frequently played hands in which you are a substantial underdog preflop. your best hope when playing K9 is to run up against a weaker king(not likely) or a hand with two unpaired undercards. in these cases you will be at least a 2 to 1 favorite, but there arent that many circumstances of this happening. If you are up against the hands QJ, QT, and JT then you are a 3 to 2 favorite. against an underpair 22-88 you are a virtual coinflip 50/50.

when adding it all up while k9 is above the average hand (Q7-the computer hand) It is far below the average PLAYABLE hand, making it a bad investment in a larger table

Prolifical ENG
03-26-2007, 03:19 PM
" coming soon CHAPTER 2 MAYDAY! MAYDAY! KICKER TROUBLES!"

yeah when I was an amateur I lost most of my big pots that could have made me a winner at the end of the day if I folded because of that low kicker.

beautifulrock
03-26-2007, 07:57 PM
CHAPTER 2 MAYDAY! MAYDAY! KICKER TROUBLES!

"Selecting the proper starting hand is as essential as playing the hand itself."-Lyle Berman

Starting with hands like K4, Q2 is a recipe for losing a lot of money. The following is a story that took place at Foxwoods Casino Poker Room during a 17 hour poker bender.

One of the things I pride myself on as a poker player is the ability to size up my opponents quickly, and use that information against them. The problem is sometimes you have to wait a long time to actually use the information.
I was sitting $1-$2 no-limit 11 hours in and $900 up and in walked one of the biggest fish I have ever seen. He started off by dumping $100 (the max buy-in) every four hands or so,for the next 3 hours, but I was card dead and none of it was coming my way. My table captaincy (chip lead) was in trouble as he proceeded to make the people around me rich, I was starting to get a little drowsy, and I knew I would probably be in for the long haul, so I took a small break to fresh up on food and caffeine. Twenty minutes or so later, with raspberry pastry still on the side of my mouth I trudged back to the table to find (in my horror) that the fish was now an overwhelming chip leader and the players at the table almost completely different. One player sitting next to me who survived the carnage described an unbelievable 20 minute run of luck in which players were cold-decked, counterfeited, river-ratted, backdoored, runner-runnered, and sucked out. One double-up turned to 2 and 2 turned to 4 and as I returned he sat proudly with a stack that dwarfed mine. Keep in mind it took me 14 hours to build my stack up to $1000 and he had doubled that number in just over a matter of 20 minutes. Just as I was sitting down, I watched as my fish friend was involved in a hand with a poor youngster who although experienced, was not ready for the likes of this guy who was willing to throw money at nothing at all. The youth raised in early postition to $22 dollars (11x the big blind, a huge raise) and all folded to the fish in the big blind who threw his four red $5 chips in quickly and with much disinterest. The flop came K74 and the fish tossed out 2 green $25 chips like they were nothing at all. Wanting to protect his hand the youth re-raised another $150 all-in which was insta-called by the fish. Neither turned over his hand as both wanted to wait for the river. A deuce fell on the turn and when a 9 popped on the river the fish proudly turned over his K9 for top 2 pair. The kid just slumped back in his chair picked up his cards and slammed pocket aces face up in the center of the table. "Fuckin donkeys!" he exclaimed and got up mumbling something about the worst players as he stomped out of the room. It was a truly Hellmuthesque performance. The fish meanwhile was shouting to the table "Don't mess with the dawg boys, my favorite hand will bite ya!" At just over $2200 he had reached his high point, and was soon due for a big fall. You see his problem is, he can't lay down anything, and consequently when you play everything, hitting anything at all makes the hand seem better than it is. The following are the 3 hands I played with him over the next 3 hours which ultimately led to his demise.
1. The slowplayed slick
When playing at a table you always want the tight players to your left and the loose players to your right. This guy was two seats to my right. He was in early position and raised to $10. This was a regular occurance and with a hand like ace king, rather than raise and possibly blow him off the hand, I decided to play it slow and milk him for more money. I smooth called and the flop came AJ7 giving me top pair top kicker. His continuation bet of $25 left his hand before the cards even flopped. It was this move that possibly saved him from me doubling up on him because I had no idea where he was. Instead of raising here I wanted to further induce bets so I flat called and waited for the turn. The turn came a Q for a board of AJ7Q and once again he fired $65 this time. It was at this point that I liked him for an ace as he took a second to ponder my call this time before putting in his bet. I figured I should test the waters at this point and I raised another $100 putting some pressure on him. He called quickly and looked to the board in anticipation for the river. When a jack fell on the river making the board AJ7QJ he proclaimed "great card for me" and proudly threw in another $200. While this card worried me slightly, his proclamation made it very easy to make a call because most people upon sucking out don't announce it to the world. He turned over his ace deuce, fully expecting a split pot, but when I turned over ace king he shrunk in his seat a little grumbling. "Wow you played that horribly." he stated. "Did I?" was my rebuttal.

chap2 to be continued soon........

beautifulrock
03-26-2007, 09:37 PM
chap2 cont...

So after that $800 pot my stack was now up to about $1400 dollars and his was down below $1900. I believe he must have experienced a little shell shock from the hand as he seemingly tried to avoid playing hands against me for the next couple of hours, but eventually we locked horns again. I was in the big blind, and a player in early position made a standard sized raise to $7. The players folded around to the fish who looked down and made a huge raise to $45 dollars . The small blind folded and I looked down at ace queen suited. Now normally I would fold ace queen in this position when faced with a raise and a re raise, but from previously sizing up his play I guessed that he was on what as known as a squeeze play, so I smooth called and the original raiser folded. The flop came Q55. The player who folded, cursed and slammed his hand on the table and got up walking away mumbling. This is very poor etiquette as he basically told me and my opponent that he had either A5 or 55 and had folded a monster. I decided to check and see where my opponent was at, and he came out firing. He bet $300 into a $100 pot, a huge overraise. So I asked myself, did he really pick up aces or kings? Is he trying to bluff me? I figured if he really had aces or kings he wouldn't be trying to blow me off the hand so I checkraised all in for another $1000 dollars. He called quickly and I slumped over in my chair expecting to be beaten. But when he turned over Q7 off my mood changed dramatically. Blanks on the turn and river came and my kicker held up. I dragged a $2700 pot and was ready to get up and walk away but my trout goaded me into staying. He had just over $500 dollars left and judging by the way he was playing I was sure he was ready to give the rest away. So with no real danger to my overwhelming chip stack, and a new rush of adrenaline due to the pot I just dragged, I sat back down and waited patiently for my chance to put him out of his misery. Surprisingly losing that pot seemed to have no effect on him and he started going on an aggressive run again, dragging many pots with terrible starting hands over the next hour. Then he made a huge mistake. With his stack back up to just over $1200 he raised in middle position to $15 (a standard raise for him) With a hand like KQ I normally would fold to such a bet, but because of my competition the call was easy. The rest of the table folded and the flop came Q98. This time he checked over to me, which was an odd play for him as he put in a continuation bet on almost every pot he played. I decided to test the waters and put in a bet of $20 dollars, just over half the size of the pot. He looked at me, glanced back down at his cards and smooth called. The turn came a kind making a board of Q98K. He quickly checked again and with top two pair I came out firing $75 dollars. He seemed to be pondering than put in a minimum raise making it $150, another $75 to me. It was at this point I was worried. This is the type of player that would play his big hands slow and fire huge at no hand at all and here he was making a weak raise like he wanted me to call. Did he slowplay JT? I had to find out. I reraised another $150 back to him and without hesitation he came over the top of me all-in for another $900 dollars more. I was now sure I had been slowplayed and I sat there contemplating. I was very close to folding and I'm sure he knew that because he started talking. Actually, he started barking and growling. Was he really doing what I think he was doing? Did he play the K9 and was he now telegraphing it? "Did that card really help you?" I asked. "Yup" he confidently stated, and I saw no lie in his words. "I don't believe you, I call." He jumped up and slammed K9 down on the table. "I told you that king helped me, donkey!" Instead of showing him my hand and give him the bad news immediately I decided to slow roll and show after the river fell. "We'll just see what the river brings." I stated. A king fell on 5th street and he proudly told the dealer "Send it!" "hang on a second, I have to check my cards again." I slowly looked down at my cards and said "Hey, it turns out that king helped me too." I turned over the nuts and what followed was one of the biggest tirades I have ever seen at a poker table. So big in fact that security had to be called to escort the gentleman out of the poker room. An elderly gentleman that I had been conversating with for hours simply said to me "you know, slow rolling like that is very bad etiquette son." I realized he was right and conceded "I know". "Buuuuut" he added "In that case I think you may have been justified." I smiled and racked up my $4000 in winnings and kindly bid the players at the table farewell and good luck. "see you around, kid" the gentleman said. "You know you will" I replied.

This story is not only an indictment of K9, but bad kickers in general as prolifical can attest. While occasionally you will hit an odd 2 pair that will confound and confuse your opponents, you risk losing a monster pot and jeopardizing your entire stack due to your kicker. These hands have a negative expectation and should be avoided.


coming soon the final chapter....The K9 nightmare scenario

beautifulrock
03-27-2007, 12:47 AM
You may think this next story is a rare occurrence but I have seen it hundreds and hundreds of times during the course of my career.

I was playing with a typical group of friends who get together on regular occasions to play a .25/.50 cash game. the buy in is $20 and being a cash game unlimited rebuys of up to $40 are welcome all night long. Me and a friend of mine are the best players in the game and on this night we shuffled back and forth with the chip lead as the big stacks at the table. The night was winding down to 5am and only 4 of us were left. I had taken a slight chiplead of about $20 or so with my stack now towering at $320 dollars and his at $300. The two shortstacks had around $40 each and were not much of a threat to either of us. I could feel his impatience growing as the original standard raises of $2-$3 were now $5-$10 and were becoming more frequent. As the shortstacks folded around to us in the blinds he flat called in the sb .25 and I did something that ended up costing him all his chips. I checked ace king in the big blind keeping the pot small and disguising the strength of my hand. The flop came JT8 and he led right out big betting $5 (keep in mind the pot is only $1) and I called because with two overcards, a gutshot straight draw to the nuts, and tons of money I wanted to gamble and suck out to a huge pot. This plan came to fruition immediately when a queen came on the turn giving me the nuts. He checked and I decided to represent a queen so I put out what I like to call a bear trap. I put a suck in bet of $3.50 out and I think at that point he wanted to suck me in so he checkraised to $9. (a very smart amount mind you, this bet will induce a 9 to re-raise and a Q,2 pair, or a set to call) Now I hatched part 2 of my trap. At this point I could re-raise him, but he is way to smart for that and would be scared a little of the third raise as this is a sign of extreme strength. So I once again disguised the strength of my hand my flat calling once again. My dream card popped on the river. A 9 counterfeitted the board and made a queen high straight. This meant with no suits present his king high straight could only be beaten by one hand and he could easily disguise the strength of his hand by putting a huge steal bet into pot knowing that a counterfeited hand would probably have to call to try and get his money back. He put a really smart bet of $50 into a pot of $29 and I raised all in immediately and strong making it appear like I was bluffing. He instantly called and turned over his king 9 expecting to see a hand like KQ or maybe even a counterfeited hand but instead I turned over Ace king. He was devastated but commented on how well I played it calling on the flop and the turn and the strong all-in play on the river. You see he just couldn't put me on the hand and never did, not even after it was too late. My friends this is the dream cash game scenario. You buy-in once for $20 and finish the night breaking a big stack and walking away with just over $600. While it wasnt my friends fault he played K9 (anyone would in his position on the small blind and he played it perfectly the entire way, he just got incredibly unlucky) these hands are known as 3-gap connectors and face the possibility of being destroyed by the high end straight. The higher the three gap connector the worse the danger, I have outlined the order of danger below.

most dangerous
K9
A5
Q8
J7
T6
95
84
73
62
least dangerous

62 can actually be a big hand especially since people like to play any ace and I have destroyed a wheel with my six high straight before... I'll explain more on this later...

So in conclusion folks, avoid K9 like the plague. It has a negative expectation and can really put a hurtin' on your stack.


"King nine is the biggest donkey hand, ever." - Mike "the mouth" Matuzow

beautifulrock
03-28-2007, 09:55 PM
Wednesday's Omaha Lesson

An introduction:
Omaha is a variant of texas hold 'em in which players are dealt a total of 4 cards to start and MUST use 3 from the board and 2 from their hand. The #1 cause for confusion and error in the game is that people misread or misplay their hand and/or the board. Beginning players should be constantly reminding themselves 2 from the hand 3, from the board. I will outline the more confusing hands and boards.

The not so nut flush

hand AS AH 3C 4D

BOARD KS QS 9S 7S 5D

although you have the ace of spades, without another spade to back-up your ace you do not have a flush, remember you must have 2 suited cards to make a flush

I thought i had the straight?

HAND AD JH TC 9C

BOARD KS QH 8H 7S 5D

although you have 8 running cards, you can only use 2 which cannot make a straight

not quads

ive seen this before a couple of times

your hand

AS TH 5D 3S

OPPONENTS HAND

AD 9H 8D 6C

BOARD

KC KH KD KS 7H

although it may appear that both players have quads due to the board, you MUST use two cards and therefore three kings with an ace ten high wins over three kings with a ace nine high.

the two pair mess

two pair on board is probably the most confusing board in the game.

your hand

AH 9H 9D 8S

BOARD

AS AD QD QC 7C

because of the pair in your hand, its tempting to think that you have a full house but in reality you only have a set of aces with a queen nine. the only hands that make a boat with this board are AQ A7 Q7 and 77. AA and QQ make quads.

high trips on board

This seems like a scary board but in reality is one of the easier boards to read

AS KH KD KC 2D

many will play any ace and think they have a full house. Only a king, or pair in your hand will improve this board.

the full house board

the easiest of boards to read, barely any hand improves it

BOARD

QH QD QC JH JC

only a queen or pair will make a hand otherwise high cards are played.

While omaha can be a very confusing game, like anything you do practice and experience can alleviate that confusion. Remember to keep telling yourself use 2 cards from your hand and 3 from the board!

Prolifical ENG
03-29-2007, 10:32 PM
when you have a flush draw, when and when should you not chase it?

edit: lol @ fully tilting

LHX
03-29-2007, 10:37 PM
poker is played out

beautifulrock
03-30-2007, 09:26 AM
Thanx 4 the info LHX, wasn't aware....

Chasing the flush draw....
The amateur's wet dream.

The answer to this question becomes skewed depending on what kind of game you are playing, and your willingness to gamble. The easiest and most straightforward answer is... When it's worth it. I'll explain.

The first thing you should do when deciding whether to gamble or not is ask yourself, "Is this a good gamble?" Are you willing to risk your entire bankroll on a tournament or cash game knowing that you have a 60% chance of failure? Essentially on the flop, those are your odds of hitting a flush before the river.(40%)
Also you should look at the board. Is there a pair on the board? If there is, you risk gambling on a situation in which you are already drawing dead, as a full house is a possibility. Also your percentage goes down in this situation as re-draw outs to better hands are possible. Another thing you should look at is your cards. Is the flush I'm drawing to too low? REMEMBER: just because you are drawing to a flush doesn't mean someone else isn't. You can draw to a 5 high flush only to find out someone was drawing higher. So if you are gonna draw to a flush, first try and pick high cards to do so.

So what is a good gamble? If we go by pot odds, then a good gamble is calling a bet a little less than half of the size of the pot. A bet 1/3 the size of the pot gives the exact correct odds to make a smart mathematical call. This goes for both the turn and river, since the odds of hitting a flush (about 20%) are almost the same. REMEMBER: If you call a bet on the flop and don't hit, you also will probably have to make another call on the turn to try and catch.

Implied Odds chasing.

This is what I like to call evil odds. There are barely any bets you cannot call to make this play justifiable. As long as your opponent bets less than %40 of his overall stack, you can call or come over the top all-in and the play is a good one. With implied odds you play on the amount you can win possibly if your card falls. With a bigstack, your goal is to take your opponents entire stack so you want to concentrate more on implied odds or big moves that take the entire stack in one instant.

example of implied odds

you have over 300,000 in an online tournament easily the overwhelming chip leader at the table and in the tourny.

You are dealt king jack of clubs.
blinds are at 300-600
you are in the big blind faced with a raise of 1200 more.
You call
Your opponent has just over 31k
flop comes
AC TC 4D
you flopped a gut-shot straight draw and a flush draw
you know any queen and any club other than the 4 of clubs makes you the nuts. this= 11 outs to the nuts and 1 more out to the flush
we'll calculate nut odds only. 11 x (2.25)<--(% of each out) = approx 25% x 2 streets = approximately 50% to hit the nuts.

with a pot of 3900, your opponent overbets the pot, a huge $10000 bet. Using pot odds, there is no way you can call that bet to try and catch your flush. However, with implied odds, you are calling 10000 to try and win 21000 more, not just what is in the pot. Calling here however is a mistake. With 2 cards to come, if a blank falls on the turn you may be forced to make a huge decision on the turn. Instead re-raise his 10000 all in and take your chances. Three things can happen.
1. he calls and you lose
2. he calls and you win
3. he folds and you take the pot right there

In 2 of these scenarios you win, and do so without significant risk to your stack. This is another reason why pushing is always better than calling.

Forgetting all about the odds for a second I can sum it up like this....
To chase a flush, call bets that are 1/3 the size of the pot or less.... this will give you the correct odds, and give you a positive mathematical expectation.

Conversely, in order to chase flush draws out or make them draw for the incorrect price, bet between 1/2 to 2 times the size of the pot on the turn and river.

coming tomorrow- thoughts on pot odds

Prolifical ENG
03-30-2007, 10:28 AM
I cashed out all the money in my paradisepoker account a while ago since I dont bother too much with internet poker, but since I don't have money I enter their "beginners freeroll" free tournament sometimes which has a $100 purse and usually gets around 1000 entries. The thing that I like about it is it starts at 11pm est, its free, and if Im out of the tourney early I just go to bed and lose no sleep over it so its a win-win situation.

Everyone starts at 1500 chips and the blinds start at 20/10 and increases every 10 minutes. Always 10 people at a table.

So of course there are all types of players....when there is around 150 people left the players are at least decent.

Sometimes because of the circumstances I want to attack the loose players early and play more hands than usual just to have a bit more fun, but I can never catch any cards within the first hour so I don't bother.


Sometimes I don't know how to face these types of tables where there is such a wide range of skill...not used to it I guess. Perhaps I should be paying more attention of what players are what skill level relative to my own table position.

beautifulrock
03-30-2007, 11:25 AM
heh heh.
You have just described the nightmare scenario for the skilled player.

Freerolls are a crapshoot. Undoubtedly there are very many bad players in freerolls. There is also no doubt that a spattering of good-very good players is in the tourny as well. So how do you approach this? Well you could try to pinpoint your opponents play, and figure out what type of player each one is, but that approach is futile early in a big tournament as so many players are dropping and moving tables. The likelihood that you stay with the same table with the same players for very long is slim. So instead of trying to concentrate on the types of player each individual player is, lump them all into one catagory. Bad. Then, as the tourny goes on, you can label those that can actually play by using your notes feature. (in freerolls bad players outnumber good players by at least 3-1) Then, if you or they are moved, you can see the label later if you are once again returned to the same table. Good players are pretty easy to spot. They are the ones not over or under betting. they use moves like the checkraise and smooth call to trap. REMEMBER: anyone who uses a minimum raise preflop is a bad player. anyone who way overbets the pot is also bad player in most cases. In the first case the raiser is trying to raise the amount in the pot without getting any information. This does not increase the chances of winning the hand. It only makes the pot juicier for your opponents to suck out on you. In case 2, the player has no interest in what you have at all. All he cares about is blowing you off the hand or gambling for all his money. He'll let the cards beat you because he can't outplay you. Case 2 is the most frequent occurrence. They see the game as a complete gamble and are willing to roll the dice constantly. You can choose to avoid these players and sit on your stack, but you will find that in short order you are sitting at a table full of monster stacks. You have to gamble, and they want you to. That being said, you are never a bigger favorite to win than preflop. Chances are the hands they will be pushing with aren't that great anyway so feel free to come over the top all-in with hands like AK AQ AA KK QQ JJ TT and 99. But don't fall into the trap of seeing too many flops. The more you play, the greater the chances of being busted, and these guys like to bust you with any kind of draw, even backdoor. Don't look for logic when playing bad players and don't expect remorse for absolutely abysmal plays that bust you. In order to survive a freeroll you must dodge every trap, play and cooler that comes your way, even the ones you don't see coming. because most of the players in the tourny have the same mindset, try this approach.... Gamble more early, especially with good-great hands preflop. When nearing the money change up your game to super-tight especially when you have a chip total which is at risk of going broke. This period usually weeds out the badder players who risk at the wrong time and go broke.

This approach for freeroll tournaments is almost exactly the opposite tactic as a rebuy tournament. A small change in the type of tournament can be enough to change your approach completely.

Prolifical ENG
03-30-2007, 12:53 PM
Ah I forgot about that note feature online. Usually I knew the regulars at the tables I went to during regular games....never really played the tourneys. Whats the best way to write notes? Just a brief description of how someone plays?

Longbongcilvaringz
03-30-2007, 01:59 PM
good thread.

question:

what tactics would you suggest at a table with several very aggressive/loose (they think that this is good) and several players who check or call constantly.

it always seems in these games, although ive won a decent amount, that i lose hands in situations when i should have seen it coming, ie. the guy who calls constantlly raising a decent amount.

i try to play tight/aggressie but i generally rationalise and end up playing hands such as A10 off suit, J10 off suit etc.

beautifulrock
03-30-2007, 02:56 PM
Ah I forgot about that note feature online. Usually I knew the regulars at the tables I went to during regular games....never really played the tourneys. Whats the best way to write notes? Just a brief description of how someone plays?

keep it simple as possible. you want something you can come back to months later that won't be confusing. also I find it helps to put a date next to a note. After all a player can be new to the game the first time and when you play them again months later, their whole style has changed. I have a number system i use (see previous post) and I specify what type of game I played against them.

example

NOTES

2/22/07
player type "1"
tournament

added notes.
continuation bets very often
uses the checkraise to bluff

If I pick out different tendencies on a player I will list those as well at the bottom.

Keep it simple. You don't need to write a biography on your opponent.

beautifulrock
03-30-2007, 02:58 PM
lets have a wu-tang corp poker tourney

most on-line poker sites will set up private tournaments for a specific group. I will e-mail absolute, fulltilt, and ultimatebet, and get more information.

beautifulrock
03-30-2007, 03:32 PM
good thread.

question:

what tactics would you suggest at a table with several very aggressive/loose (they think that this is good) and several players who check or call constantly.

it always seems in these games, although ive won a decent amount, that i lose hands in situations when i should have seen it coming, ie. the guy who calls constantlly raising a decent amount.

i try to play tight/aggressie but i generally rationalise and end up playing hands such as A10 off suit, J10 off suit etc.

I'm assuming you are talking cash game, correct?
The one fear of an aggressive/loose player is ultra-aggression. Other than that kamikaze style the only way to play against players like this is to check-call and trap them. The problem with this is that the really good players will see the first call you make as a sign of strength and back off, meaning you won't make any more money. Some won't care at all. Those are the ones you want to trap in this manner, the ones that fire three consecutive bullets with nothing, and not give a second thought.

The second player you have described is the "sticky" player. Also known as the "ATM", the calling station, or the cashbox, these are the toughest players to get off a hand. They want to see all 5 cards and don't care what it costs.
The best way to play against these players is to play honest. Don't semi-bluff, because if you don't hit the chances of a successful bluff on the river is somewhat minimalized. When you do have a great hand, bet strong. Make them pay a lot for their draws. Don't lose what you don't have to, and win as much as you can. This is one of the essential rules of poker.
REMEMBER: Maximize wins Minimize losses.

Here is why each one of these schools of poker wins, and it has a lot to do with what you said about "not seeing it coming". When the aggressive player raises he doesn't adjust the raise just because he has a better hand. He bets uniformly so as to disguise the strength of his hand. consequently, you have too much invested in a hand before you realize you are beat. Instead of getting away from the hand you should, you rationalize the amount of money spent in the pot as an excuse to call off more. Than he has you.
The calling station makes his money by having a constant "slow play". Since the play is always a constant check/call, you never have any idea where you are in the hand. This will make it nearly impossible to get away from a very good hand on the river when he finally goes all in because what do you know? Not much at all.
These two styles of poker clash perfectly like the shaolin and Wu Tang schools do. The aggressive players work well against the calling stations and vice versa. However if calling stations clash against each other, the pots will be small. If aggressive players clash the pots will be huge. By having both styles at the table the game becomes more harmonized, more beautiful. By having only one style at the table the game either becomes a giant mess or a drag.

beautifulrock
03-30-2007, 04:45 PM
In addition to trying to get the corp its own multipoker tourny, I myself am soon obtaining my very own 9 handed sit n go tournament table on absolute as I am very close to VIP status. If you are interested in joining the list of players eligible please PM me with your poker nickname on absolute and the amount of money you would like to play for. (1+.10),(5+.50),(10+1),(18+1.80),or (25+2.50)

Longbongcilvaringz
03-31-2007, 11:18 AM
I'm assuming you are talking cash game, correct?
The one fear of an aggressive/loose player is ultra-aggression. Other than that kamikaze style the only way to play against players like this is to check-call and trap them. The problem with this is that the really good players will see the first call you make as a sign of strength and back off, meaning you won't make any more money. Some won't care at all. Those are the ones you want to trap in this manner, the ones that fire three consecutive bullets with nothing, and not give a second thought.

The second player you have described is the "sticky" player. Also known as the "ATM", the calling station, or the cashbox, these are the toughest players to get off a hand. They want to see all 5 cards and don't care what it costs.
The best way to play against these players is to play honest. Don't semi-bluff, because if you don't hit the chances of a successful bluff on the river is somewhat minimalized. When you do have a great hand, bet strong. Make them pay a lot for their draws. Don't lose what you don't have to, and win as much as you can. This is one of the essential rules of poker.
REMEMBER: Maximize wins Minimize losses.

Here is why each one of these schools of poker wins, and it has a lot to do with what you said about "not seeing it coming". When the aggressive player raises he doesn't adjust the raise just because he has a better hand. He bets uniformly so as to disguise the strength of his hand. consequently, you have too much invested in a hand before you realize you are beat. Instead of getting away from the hand you should, you rationalize the amount of money spent in the pot as an excuse to call off more. Than he has you.
The calling station makes his money by having a constant "slow play". Since the play is always a constant check/call, you never have any idea where you are in the hand. This will make it nearly impossible to get away from a very good hand on the river when he finally goes all in because what do you know? Not much at all.
These two styles of poker clash perfectly like the shaolin and Wu Tang schools do. The aggressive players work well against the calling stations and vice versa. However if calling stations clash against each other, the pots will be small. If aggressive players clash the pots will be huge. By having both styles at the table the game becomes more harmonized, more beautiful. By having only one style at the table the game either becomes a giant mess or a drag.

cheers for this, im playing a 7 person game on wednesday with some mates of mine. will report back after that.


thing is, in some other games ive played, everyone just plays tight agressive and you never end up seeing the river, or you only get 2 players at most seeing cards past the flop.

the games with my mates are much more enjoyable/interesting because almost every hand ends with someone winning a decent pot, unless there are mass fold pre flop/

anyway, i'll see what i can do on wednesday night, and try and use some of the info you shared.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-31-2007, 11:21 AM
oh yeah, and what you said about having too much investing in a hand by the time the turn or river comes out, happens to me at least a couple of times a game.

sign of a amatuer i guess, lol.

i always get to the turn with nothing but a long shot at a straight or flush, but convince myself that i have nothing to lose, and end up chucking in half my stack.

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 11:45 AM
cheers for this, im playing a 7 person game on wednesday with some mates of mine. will report back after that.


thing is, in some other games ive played, everyone just plays tight agressive and you never end up seeing the river, or you only get 2 players at most seeing cards past the flop.

the games with my mates are much more enjoyable/interesting because almost every hand ends with someone winning a decent pot, unless there are mass fold pre flop/

anyway, i'll see what i can do on wednesday night, and try and use some of the info you shared.

sean, while I agree with you that while having more players in a pot CAN be enjoyable, there is extreme risk and playing that style. It's hard enough just trying to read one hand, but when multiple hands come into the equation you are looking through a blizzard with sunglasses on. The chances of busting, being trapped or just plain losing increase with each player in the pot. The goal of every great player is to isolate a hand with one player and attack. The easiest way to achieve this is to raise preflop, the reason why ALL pros suggest this line of attack. That being said, I can't get anyone out of a pot preflop in my home game either. I play a .25/.50 cash game and regularly have pots with five players calling a three dollar raise. This is because we KNOW each other too well. It's times like this that reading ability can be the difference between walking home busted and walking home rich.

Some added advice I have for you is this. If you find yourself playing every hand or too many hands, you should walk away from the table for a second. Get a nice drink (not too stiff) and take the time to enjoy it. Think about your approach and how you can change it to work for you. Slowly make your way back to the table and calm down. Slowplay the next three or so hands you get and when you finally win a big pot, change up your style to aggressive.
After the next big pot you win, change it up again and keep changing, throwing your opponents off balance. When I am down in a rut at the table, this simple strategy has worked wonders for me over the years.

"Poker is hours of boredom and moments of sheer terror"
- the professor Howard Lederer


oh yea ps GOOD LUCK!

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 11:50 AM
oh yeah, and what you said about having too much investing in a hand by the time the turn or river comes out, happens to me at least a couple of times a game.

sign of a amatuer i guess, lol.

i always get to the turn with nothing but a long shot at a straight or flush, but convince myself that i have nothing to lose, and end up chucking in half my stack.

wanting to gamble isn't a sign of an amateur, its the sign of the gambler, and some of the biggest pros out there are huge gamblers.

Tune in Monday when I go over pot odds and what makes for a good and bad gamble.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-31-2007, 11:57 AM
yeah i feel what your saying,

but that said, i dont really play to win, i mean i always try as hard as i can, and im really competetive, but when i lose a can still enjoy the night etc.

to me that more important, all our games have some really close high stakes hand, which makes it interesting.

also, as you said when you play with the same group of people all the time, you get to know their tactics/tells/betting trends etc. its always interesting when you think you have someone figured out and they come out with somethink totally unexpected, such as a huge bluff.

another point/question. when i play my main tactic when i have a strong hand is to slow play initially, wait for someone else to move, and then follow there bets. or if this doesnt happen, to then make my own moves.

i do this because i assume its a safer tactic then bluffing etc, the problem is i seem to be more predictable now that people have picked out my betting trends.

anyway, question is, what tactics would you employ when bluffing, eg. cards down, amount in the pot etc.

because usually when i do bluff, i seem to under bet to late and end up getting tangled up in an unwanted show down, or betting to much, too early and picking up a relatively small pot.

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 12:55 PM
s

another point/question. when i play my main tactic when i have a strong hand is to slow play initially, wait for someone else to move, and then follow there bets. or if this doesnt happen, to then make my own moves.

i do this because i assume its a safer tactic then bluffing etc, the problem is i seem to be more predictable now that people have picked out my betting trends.

anyway, question is, what tactics would you employ when bluffing, eg. cards down, amount in the pot etc.

because usually when i do bluff, i seem to under bet to late and end up getting tangled up in an unwanted show down, or betting to much, too early and picking up a relatively small pot.

Ok, you aren't that big of an amateur. Your 1st question shows that you have graduated past rank amateur and have reached the second stage. I was on that stage for a while myself, thinking I could slowplay all my big hands successfully and waiting to spring that giant trap. The problem is these occurrences are extremely rare, and when they do happen, chances are fastplaying would have produced the same results, maybe even better. I'll get to the bluffing in a second, but lets tackle that question first.

The KGB slowplay is a great move. I don't want to down the play totally, but that play has a time and situation to be used, but it is unfortunately overused. I, myself, don't recommend slowplaying that often. There are two major reasons why.
1. You risk letting a weaker hand or a draw hand catch you. There is nothing worse than flopping the nut straight, checking it down and have a back door flush take all your money on the end. Listen, its like this. By slowplaying, you gain no information on a hand, you also give no indications of strength. I can't tell you how many times I've slowplayed a hand, then had to lay it down because of a play made later on in the hand, only to find out I had the winning hand. Why did I lay it down? Because earlier in the hand I picked up no information, made it appear to my opponent that I was weak, and when I finally bet on the river, the bet made no sense. He sees this as a bluff (like he should) and comes over the top all in. Now i'm lost in the forrest. I can't risk my entire stack, knowing he could have caught up to me on the river.
2. You don't make as much money. You can check and check and check and not make a dime. Used to slowplay a set on the flop all the time. Now I barely do. And ya know what? I make tons more money and get sucked out less. Also the first bet people put into a pot many times is construed as a bluff and is subject to reraises. This is exactly what you want correct? REMEMBER :maximize wins.

The bluff is a beautiful thing when employed properly. Too bad most people use it up like a cheap whore. When I play a cash game I employ a bluff at most maybe once an hour. At times I have gone entire nights without bluffing and was the massive chip leader at the table. You want to pull off the bluff right? Well make the play make sense. (see example below) As far as the correct amount to bet? Ask yourself, What would I bet if I had the flush right now? A bluff bet should be a happy medium between betting too strongly and betting too little. (I prefer like half the pot) You essentially want to place a bet that looks like a value bet. A value bet is a bet that looks like it is crying for a call. The only problem is a bad player will do just that, not caring what you have.
I'm not saying 100% of the time you should employ this type of bluff but it works wonders especially against great players. Other types of bluffs to try are the blow off, a huge immediate all-in raise usually done preflop or on the flop against an aggressive player who likes to continuation bet on the flop.
The other type of bluff is what Doyle Brunsen calls the post oak bluff(don't know how he got the name) This is a very small bet into a huge pot designed to look like you are trying to make a little more money on a made hand. This is very very hard to use and almost never works, but when it does, it more than makes up for all your failures.

I don't like to give up ALL my secrets but this is a bluff play I use occasionally that works well. For this play to work, the flop must contain a pair, preferably low. (aces on board is a bad time to try this)

Lets say after a small raise prefop you call with ace jack off.

Flop (9H 9S KC)

Your opponent bets the pot representing a king.

You ponder the move and smooth call.

Turn 4H

Your smooth call slows down your opponent and he bets the same as previous showing a little weakness.

You have two choices now the 2nd being more risky. You can raise now about the size of the pot and hope to take it down now or risk another card coming off and try the move on the river.

You smooth call again.

River 3H

now your in business. A card that could a backdoor flush has fallen on the river. You have planted the seed in your opponent that you either have a 9 or a king. He sees this and checks. You bet big on the river (a little more than the pot) He contemplates and folds his king suspecting you had slowplayed the 9. You turn over your ace jack and he throws up. You have just pulled off a successful bluff because the play made sense.

As far as picking up a small pot early because you bet too much, don't sweat it! part of hold 'em is those monotonous seemingly meaningless little hands with small pots. Phil Ivey is considered the greatest player on earth because he is constantly going after those little unwanted pots. Would you rather win several small pots taking the blinds with aces, or lose a monster pot because you slowplayed those aces and got cracked?

"Aces either win you several small pots or lose you monster ones."
-Doyle "Texas Dolly" Brunson

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 01:03 PM
When to slowplay...

1. When you have the stone cold nuts. Your hand on the flop is either unbeatable or very unlikely to be beaten. If you flop four aces you can bet right out, but serously your opponent has to have something to call right? Not likely with a flop like that.

2. You know your opponent to be aggressive and checking will surely induce a bet.

3. You suspect that a player may be slowplaying you. This is the quagmire. If you bet they call and you get no info. You check and they check. These hands always lead to a disaster on the river. The reason I suggest slowplaying, is because you can save some money if you make a correct read and they DO have a monster. Sometimes this is the only way of avoiding a "cooler " hand.

mic-cord-strangler
03-31-2007, 02:18 PM
good topic beatuifulrock... im a poker enthusiast myself


slowplaying is indeed way over used by bad players

you can get sucked out on but also you risk a card coming that scares your opponent in not putting anymore money in the pot, even though he really liked his hand on the flop and woldve gone all the way with it

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 02:24 PM
also a good point^^^^

As well as scaring YOUR opponent, the cards that come can make the board a mess and scare you, making it hard for you to throw more money in the pot as well as making it easier for your opponent to bluff you later in the hand.

I can't reiterate enough the dangers of slowplaying, but like I said there is a time and place.

mic-cord-strangler
03-31-2007, 02:28 PM
what stakes do you play at rock?

i play $0.50 - $1 NL and sometimes dabble in the $1-$2 if the game is juicy..

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 02:38 PM
what stakes do you play at rock?

i play $0.50 - $1 NL and sometimes dabble in the $1-$2 if the game is juicy..

I play several different stakes, 1-2 at the casino and at a bar I go to. My home game right now is a .25-.50 cash game which is a really good level if you dont wanna burn more than $150 bucks and want to actually PLAY the game. Online I have played as little as .01-.02 no limit and as high as $2-$4 in both no limit and pl omaha. This is also a great level if you have over a grand online. The problem is at the bar and the casino, the buy in is capped at $100 which means at 50 big blinds you really don't have much room to play. It's pretty much shove in and pray poker, and I don't like that. If I really want to gamble I'll buy a powerball ticket. I don't wanna lose $100 on 1 hand with ace king.

beautifulrock
03-31-2007, 03:44 PM
Today's tip- Always wait until it is your turn before you look at your cards. Many amateurs can't wait to see what they are dealt and immediately look at their cards the second they are dealt. This is a bad move. What you should be doing is taking the time as the cards are dealt to study your opponents and their reactions to the cards. Also it is a good idea to not give any necessary info away on your hand until it is your turn to play. Many will look at their cards and look either disinterested/very interested, giving away your intentions to previous bettors. The best time to look down at your cards is when it is your turn. While this may seem a very benign action, it WILL help your game in the long run.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-01-2007, 06:29 AM
problem with that is that other players, that may not have looked at you earlier are now all looking at you.

i just dont look at my cards straight away , and then once everyone else has, i have a look. if you check them when its your term dont you think there is a greater chance of giving something away to your opponents? cause they will all be looking at you?

beautifulrock
04-01-2007, 12:12 PM
I really don't think so, unless you are that bad at concealing your hand. Do you react to your cards? I don't. All I'm saying is you may affect a previous action in the hand by looking too early. When its my turn, I want them grilling me. I want them to try their best to read me. Because I plan to misdirect them the whole way. Remember there are (52 x 51)/2 = 1326 different hands you can start with. If you give away the strength of your hand simply by looking at your cards, well then you probably shouldn't be playing. Be aware of the tells of others as well as your own tells. Let's say you look at your cards early and see a hand like pocket kings. You inadvertently begin playing with your chips as the play comes around the table to you. An opponent sees this and instead of raising flat calls to wait for your action. You just lost money. You may not have meant it, but you did because of impatience.

"looking at your cards early is truly the sign of an amateur"
- The Real Deal - A book by poker pro Phil Gordon

Longbongcilvaringz
04-01-2007, 12:17 PM
i mean i dont think i react to my cards, but any tell is unconcious anyway.

but i get your point about wanting everyones attention when you try to mislead them.

beautifulrock
04-01-2007, 12:29 PM
i mean i dont think i react to my cards, but any tell is unconcious anyway.


ahhh False!, Any and all tells are not unconscious! Many pros and players alike such as myself give off what are called false tells. That is we have read Caro's book of tells, know what it looks like when they do or don't have a hand, and "act" the opposite way. This is a very cleaver deception especially when "set up" by previous hand. At the stage of the game you are at right now Sean, I highly highly recommend this book to you especially if you have interest in becoming a better player. It completely turned my live cash and tournament play around.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-01-2007, 01:37 PM
what the book called?

beautifulrock
04-01-2007, 01:42 PM
Caro's Book of Tells
by Mike "the mad genius" Caro

old book there have been several reprints. newer reprints even have internet tells.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-01-2007, 01:47 PM
ok thanks, i'll check it out.

beautifulrock
04-02-2007, 08:53 PM
Some thoughts on pot odds....

Pot odds are tough to explain, but a friend of mine said it best. He said that if the percentage to win the hand is greater than the percentage of money you contribute to a pot to make a call, you are making a correct mathematical call. While the percentage can be low, if you continue to make the same correct mathematical call throughout the course of your career the money in the pots you win will far outweigh the money you lose in pots you don't win.

Heres a simple example

the blinds are 1/2 you are in the bb, and someone goes all in for 4 total and the play folds around to you. you have A2. It costs you 2 to win a pot of 7. thats his bet 4 + your big blind 2 + small blind 1 =7 and to make the call it costs you 2. 7/2= 3.5 to 1 odds
this means if you are less than a 73%-27% underdog the call is a good one
with any ace it is pretty easy to call getting more than 2-1 odds.
you call
he shows KK
you are a 70%-%30 underdog about 3.3 to 1
If you infinitely ran ace 2 against kk for those pot odds, ace 2 would make money.

As far as tournaments go, If i am in the small blind and at least 2 people limp in front of me, there is no hand I can fold for a call of the blind. If 2 people call, I am getting 7 to 1 odds to call the blind. These are great odds even for 72.
As far as the big blind goes If someone minimum raises my blind I like to make them pay by calling with any hand to suck out as I am getting at least 3 to 1 odds to make the call.

Pot odds can be used in many situations but the most helpful times to use them is when you are trying to decide whether to call in the blinds or to make a call on a draw. There are times when you should ignore pot odds, and times when you can't.

One caveat about pot odds... Your shortstacked friends will hate you.

Hellspawn
04-03-2007, 11:48 AM
I won my first Hold 'em NL tournament yesterday (buy in 5.5$)
check the last play :) (i'm Abarai_dogg)

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3614/derniercoupne6.jpg

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 02:15 PM
Congrats hellspawn ^^^^thats a cooler hand heads up, not too many gettin away from that. How much did ya win?

Hellspawn
04-03-2007, 02:21 PM
36$ I think, it was that 5.5$ shit

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 02:32 PM
2 table tournaments are a good thing to play because they simulate the end of a major tournament and don't take too long. You need to know how to get all the chips and this is a good way of doing so. I would suggest before going up to the next level (you said $10 in the other thread) build your stack up to $200 as you don't wanna spend more than 5% of your bankroll on any one tournament. Doing so leads to concessions like well I can play this 1 twenty dollar tournament and it won't hurt me that badly, and thinking like that makes you go broke. Protect your money!

Hellspawn
04-03-2007, 02:41 PM
cool, thanx for the advice
I do it like this :
enter the bet only if i have good cards on the first table and then give it all in the final table.

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 02:53 PM
For all you heads out there that don't wanna pay for a poker tournament, but wanna win real money, I have this for you.....

Absolute Poker has daily freerolls around the clock with a fixed prize pool of $50 paying over the top 18 places. They also have a REBUY FREEROLL in which entry is free buy you may buy rebuys for 1 dollar. While rebuying in such a tournament with 4000 people is stupid, people do it anyway, building the pot to over $300 spread across 63 spots.

This freeroll takes place at 15:15 eastern standard time you can sign up any time after 14:15 but the registration closes after 4000 enter. Good luck!

Hellspawn
04-03-2007, 03:02 PM
thanx for the info I'll try to register tomorrow :)

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 03:05 PM
cool, thanx for the advice
I do it like this :
enter the bet only if i have good cards on the first table and then give it all in the final table.

I do it that way sometimes too. While this play (going all in 1st hand or early) diminishes your chances of cashing, it greatly increases your chances of winning the entire tournament if you double or triple up early. In a $$$$ sit n go such as this however there isn't that much to get by anyway. I probably would save that play for the bigger tournaments because if you do go broke early you don't have to waste 4 hours only to go broke on the bubble, you can join another tourny or go outside a play basketball or something...heh heh

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 03:09 PM
oh yeah and hellspawn, absolute has a feature where you can find me by typing in my user name "beautifulrok".( no c) If you tell me your name on there I'll look for you tomorrow. I start in 5 minutes, see you and good luck!

Prolifical ENG
04-03-2007, 03:30 PM
yeah!

placed 98th in a freeroll tourney on paradisepoker out of like 2500.

anyone have strategy how to play at the $0.02/$0.04 with 10 cents +)

Maybe I can get it up to $2 today

100pr00f
04-03-2007, 03:33 PM
lol...maybe ill start playing for some cash online
but i would rather do not on my bankcard maybe on a pay as u go card type shit haha

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 03:36 PM
yeah!

placed 98th in a freeroll tourney on paradisepoker out of like 2500.

anyone have strategy how to play at the $0.02/$0.04 with 10 cents +)

Maybe I can get it up to $2 today

heh heh, pray I guess?

lol...maybe ill start playing for some cash online
but i would rather do not on my bankcard maybe on a pay as u go card type shit haha

hey proof if you don't wanna spend money just yet, but wanna make real money let me know, I've done it tons of times on absolute.

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-03-2007, 05:00 PM
Who here plays Fulltiltpoker?

beautifulrock
04-03-2007, 05:07 PM
i do freerolls mostly name beautifulrock. I'm in the horse tourny at 5est

Longbongcilvaringz
04-04-2007, 06:38 AM
about to head out to a game in about an hour, $120-$140 pot, 6/7 players and winner takes all.

should be interesting, i'll let you lads know what happens when i get back...i need the money so i need to win this one.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-04-2007, 02:27 PM
ok, just got home from the game, its about 3am and i am fairly drunk so the synopsis will be brief.

basically i won the first hand of the game, comforatbly, gained a generous chip lead. however the next hand went all in on pocket pairs (the highest pair on the board pre river) and my opponent rivered a straight. i had a chip advantage over him, so i wasnt out, but my chip stack was pitiful. i played the rest of the game making the most of my free hands, and basically gettinng rags on the majority of hands. i wasnt the first player out, but generally played poorly.

the game went for about 4.30 hours, and heads up at the end went for about 1.30 hours, with the two remaining players splitting the pot on three occassion.

anyway im annoyed that i didnt win, maybe next time i wont be so agressive.

beautifulrock
04-04-2007, 06:30 PM
heads up was 1.5 hours? That's crazy! Musta been epic. Wish I was there.

sean remember my credo on tourmaments:A TOURNAMENT IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY HANDS YOU PLAY IT MATTERS HOW LONG YOU LAST, SO DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY TIGHT.

especially early....

beautifulrock
04-04-2007, 07:50 PM
just flopped a royal playing omaha hi/lo one of the perfect times to slowplay.

hand Ah Qh 5h 6s

opponents hand Kd 2d Tc 4h

flop Kh Jh Th

turn Kc

river 9c


all the money went in on the turn

Longbongcilvaringz
04-05-2007, 04:01 AM
heads up was 1.5 hours? That's crazy! Musta been epic. Wish I was there.

sean remember my credo on tourmaments:A TOURNAMENT IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. IT DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY HANDS YOU PLAY IT MATTERS HOW LONG YOU LAST, SO DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY TIGHT.

especially early....



yeah, i won a large hand early, and thought i had my opponent read, which i did, until the river. when he rivered a straight and took my chips.

heads up was epic, three times when both players were all in with fairly equal chip stacks, they both had the same hand. they must have split the pot a total of 4 or 5 times that night.

beautifulrock
04-06-2007, 06:25 PM
Todays Omaha Lesson

Playing the proper starting hand:

In Omaha playing the proper starting hand is almost as important as winning the hand itself. The real object of Omaha is to make the nuts or close to it. Still I see players playing any four random starting hands. Since the mean winning hand in Omaha is the nut flush, You should be looking to make a hand as good as a straight. Playing low suited cards to try and catch a flush is a no-no as is playing low pairs to try and catch a boat. I just assume avoid the mess caused by playing bottom set and dump any pair lower than 66. These are the premium starting hands in Omaha.

The Two best-

AAKK - double suited
AAJT - double suited

although AAKK is a slightly higher percentage than AAJT, most pros would agree that AAJT is the better hand due to the amount of nut straights it makes.

Other great starting hands

four running cards

QJT9 and JT98 are the best of these, the purpose of which is to make the nut straight.

Double Suited cards

while this is a good drawing hand you want your flush draws to be as high as possible.

pair + connectors

KKQJ, QQJT, JJT9

hands like these are very playable, especially if double suited

two gap connectors

KQ98 , JT76

these hands make the best straight draw possible if the two middle cards come. This is called the Maine to Spain draw. Lets say you have KQ98 and the flop comes JT3. You have an A,9,8,7 to make the nut straight and a K,Q for the 2nd nut straight. This is nearly half the deck to make a straight and two streets to catch.

The biggest piece of advice I can give while deciding on a starting hand is avoid hands with a dangler and hands in that make two good starting hands in hold 'em but don't work together in Omaha.

examples of bad starting hands

KQJ2 - deuce dangler

AK33 - ace king is nothing in omaha, so are treys

TT54 - only a set of tens will help you here

9983 - you have 99 and 98 but the three is a bad dangler

These hands are more or less a waste of money. In omaha you want four cards that mesh well together.

beautifulrock
04-07-2007, 03:49 PM
The misconception of preflop play in omaha.

I see people all the time at a 9 handed Omaha table raise preflop. This is an incorrect move. Omaha is not Hold 'em. Lyle Berman says there is NO HAND WORTH PUTTING THE 1ST RAISE IN PREFLOP. That's not to say you can't re-raise to isolate with a hand like aces preflop. In a game like pot limit omaha, the 1st raise is never enough to push anybody out and therefore you are pricing multiple opponents to call. If multiple opponents call you are no longer a favorite to win the hand. The pot will always get big enough in PL, and since you are chasing the nuts, its always better to see cheap flops.

Let me show you a shocking example of why aces are nothing in Omaha

Your hand As Ad 3h 2d

opponents hand Js Ts 9d 8d

guess who's ahead preflop? NOT YOU. Your opponent is a 52% to 48% favorite. Aces pretty much shrink after that don't they? In a game where people are chasing straights, flushes, and fullhouses aces only help you make a boat, and if the board doesn't pair, you can't make a boat.

In Summation save the preflop raising for when you get to 5 of 4 people left. Your chances of winning are much better then.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-08-2007, 01:59 PM
played anothr game of texas hold em' on saturday night after work, my brother cleaned up, beating me and my mates fairly easily. game went for fucking ages though.

Prolifical ENG
04-09-2007, 11:27 AM
Anyone here play on World Poker Exchange? My brother is pro and its the only place he plays online now.

Since the site get most of its money off of sporting bets, they give you some of the rake at the end of the week. My brother claims he makes between $250-500 per week on the rakeback, thats from playing over 500 hands a day on multiple tables though...I dont know what tables he plays at...I think its mostly $10-20. Apparently the site also pays you if you give them a game number where you lose with AA. So if it is at the $1-2 tables you will get $25 back.

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 01:36 AM
Anyone want to see a limit hold em final table?

If so, go to absolute poker and look for tourny # 1504503 freeroll limit HL

7 people left out of 4000 look for beautifulrok

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 02:49 AM
wow, that was grueling. 6 hours and 28 minutes later I finished an unbelievable heads up match. It was like a tug of war. We were back and forth for about 30 minutes, (a lifetime for internet poker heads up) but alas I finished 2nd. Limit hold 'em probably is my worst game so this finish was surprising to me. At one point in the tourny I was shortstacked and all in preflop with 3s. After hitting a boat and quadrupling up I went on a run and took the chip lead just before the final table. I played extremely tight from then on whittling my chips away until I made my move 3 handed. What a tourny!

Prolifical ENG
04-10-2007, 01:09 PM
I always end up around 100th out of a few thousand in those freerolls so I end up getting a few cents.

Of course the tight players always last a few hours in any tournament but then there is a time when you need to start changing gears before you end up playing against those monster stacks so its even hard trying to steal the blinds since the blinds + ante will pretty much double your stack and give you 2 more bets. So of course I end up blinding out.

Around that time of the tourney I expect those players to play tighter but in fact players per flop is like 40%.

In those freerolls I find it more effective to play a little bit looser in the first level when the blinds are only 20/10 with 1500 chips. Then tighten up after 20 mins when the later blinds in the hour dont affect your stack as much if your not catching cards.

What time do the freerolls usually start on absolute and how much? On Paradise they are at 1:30 pm EST and 11:00 pm EST. I might give absolute a try.

netscape check two
04-10-2007, 01:53 PM
Not to sound like a smart ass, but I'm really, really tired of the whole poker craze in the last few years. I don't know why they put poker on like 10 different tv channels. It's about as exciting to watch as golf. And what's with putting it on ESPN? I wouldn't really consider it a 'sport'. Every bar/club across the country has those poker tournaments now, and it gets to be rather annoying hearing about them all the time. I never even heard of Texas Hold Em until about two years ago, and since then it's become more popular than two dollar Sally.

Prolifical ENG
04-10-2007, 02:15 PM
Not to sound like a smart ass, but I'm really, really tired of the whole poker craze in the last few years. I don't know why they put poker on like 10 different tv channels. It's about as exciting to watch as golf. And what's with putting it on ESPN? I wouldn't really consider it a 'sport'. Every bar/club across the country has those poker tournaments now, and it gets to be rather annoying hearing about them all the time. I never even heard of Texas Hold Em until about two years ago, and since then it's become more popular than two dollar Sally.

I guess thats the catch of the game. I probably started playing the game about 6-7 years ago....it was kind of popular then but not nearly as it is today...with the TV...poker sets you can buy anywhere for like 20 bucks.

There is so much more strategy involved in the game above traditional poker. I guess sometimes those strategy games are seen as sports.

The concept why it got so popular is there are so many people that think they are better than they really are at the game and think they can win. Therefore there is even more money for the true players in the game to actually win.

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 06:02 PM
I consider anything where you keep score a sport. Check two, you obviously have never actually played poker, or else you wouldn't talk that way. It is one of the most fun and addicting things on the planet.

Absolute just changed up their freeroll format, now all the freerolls are also 50c rebuys so the pot is bigger than usual. They play about every 2 hours on the 15 minute mark. sign-ups are limited to 4000 and 1st pays anywhere from 30-60 dollars depending on the game you play. 63 places pay

Prolifical ENG
04-10-2007, 06:12 PM
I am thinking of going back to UltimateBet (Hellmuth's site) and see if its still fun. They're gimmick is ultimate points...so for every dollar or something you put into a pot you get an ultimate point....also if you play with play money for an hour you can get 1 ultimate point.

When you get enough you can play with your ultimate points as your chips. The ultimate points get get you a list of prizes and I think you can enter certain freeroll tourneys with the ultimate points where the pool is like $500 instead of $100 and stuff.

You need like millions of U.P.s to get the expensive prizes...so in reality 1 U.P. is worth a fraction of a cent.

I guess Paradise has their point system too...I play in those $1000 freerolls sometimes...they only have around 250 entries.

I never went on pokerstars in a while...even though I wear the pokerstars.com cap around all the time...lol Dont even think I have it installed anymore.

Prolifical ENG
04-10-2007, 08:03 PM
i reged to absolute, yeah they have NL, PL and Limit tourneys all on the same day....I dont know about limit poker tourneys with that many people....that would take forever unless the blinds go up fast enough....its easier to count your bets out though.

netscape check two
04-10-2007, 08:22 PM
Ok Beautiful Rock, you got me. lol I never have actually played poker before. I'm not into card games a whole lot. But even if I did play, I would most likely still think that they are over doing it by showing it so often on tv, on so many different channels.

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 08:40 PM
Ok Beautiful Rock, you got me. lol I never have actually played poker before. I'm not into card games a whole lot. But even if I did play, I would most likely still think that they are over doing it by showing it so often on tv, on so many different channels.

perhaps they are, but watching on tv is part of the learning process. I personally watch them all.

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 08:42 PM
i reged to absolute, yeah they have NL, PL and Limit tourneys all on the same day....I dont know about limit poker tourneys with that many people....that would take forever unless the blinds go up fast enough....its easier to count your bets out though.

i can tell you from personal experience (last night) that they last at least 6 hours

Prolifical ENG
04-10-2007, 09:02 PM
I consider anything where you keep score a sport.

Thats always where there is confusion. Darts is a sport too but there are those sports that are faster paced and actually require athleticism along with the strategy. Call those "active sports"?

i can tell you from personal experience (last night) that they last at least 6 hours

Thats not too much longer....NL freerolls are usually around 4 hours

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 09:07 PM
Thats always where there is confusion. Darts is a sport too but there are those sports that are faster paced and actually require athleticism along with the strategy. Call those "active sports"?



Thats not too much longer....NL freerolls are usually around 4 hours

actually on absolute, the NL freerolls last at least 5.5 hours now that I think about it. I won a few of those. They used to pay only 10 bucks for 1st, but with the rebuys, that # went up to about 50-60 bucks but there are twice as many people.

professional poker player adam shoenfeld disagrees with our assertion ENG. He says any activity where you can eat or drink a beer while you are doing it is not a sport. Does that mean golf is not a sport? lol

Prolifical ENG
04-10-2007, 09:50 PM
professional poker player adam shoenfeld disagrees with our assertion ENG. He says any activity where you can eat or drink a beer while you are doing it is not a sport. Does that mean golf is not a sport? lol

On the professional level when you are actually competing you wont drink a beer on the course...don't think Ive seen a pro eat on the course either. Do many people drink beer on the WSOP? But I guess you need to put emphasis on the word "can".

I guess that could be the difference.

beautifulrock
04-10-2007, 10:33 PM
On the professional level when you are actually competing you wont drink a beer on the course...don't think Ive seen a pro eat on the course either. Do many people drink beer on the WSOP? But I guess you need to put emphasis on the word "can".

I guess that could be the difference.

The ones that want to do, as part of the game they're playing. Men "the master" Nguyen is always seen drinking at the table. I guess they are trying to showcase that "drunken style poker" where they appear reckless but are setting people up.

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 03:58 PM
I joined the world poker exchange...it is a relatively smaller site. The pocket aces always win has a scale...so $1-2 gets 25 when you e-mail support of the game number you lost with them...its only wed through sat 1pm-1am...lol

they have 6 $50 freerolls throughout the day...smaller than on AP and such...paradise has 2 $100 but at stupid times....but it looks as if they have an average of 500 entries in them instead of the other ones in the thousands.....depending how many entries...i guess top 50 pays.

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 03:59 PM
oh yeah beautfulrok i was watching you play omaha earlier..lol

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-11-2007, 04:06 PM
So, what online gaming site is everyone playing on?

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 06:16 PM
oh yeah beautfulrok i was watching you play omaha earlier..lol

if it was the freeroll i dumped in that. im in a $5 hi lo right now headed toward the money.

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 06:24 PM
nah it was just reg .10/.20 omaha

i seen you ranking in that game towards the money...i dumped the freeroll because im doing better on the world poker exchange one. the thing that i noticed because of all that traffic on AP the servers are super slow...so im off AP for now.

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 06:43 PM
nah it was just reg .10/.20 omaha

i seen you ranking in that game towards the money...i dumped the freeroll because im doing better on the world poker exchange one. the thing that i noticed because of all that traffic on AP the servers are super slow...so im off AP for now.

really? I have dial up and have no problems, try erasing the program and downloading again, it worked for me.

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 06:45 PM
hey whats ur poker name again i forgot

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 06:48 PM
on AP i just made it Prolifical...lol

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-11-2007, 06:48 PM
Freeroll or Ap? Why not Full Tilt?

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-11-2007, 06:50 PM
Whats the AP url?

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 06:53 PM
the freerolls on absolute pay more spots and more money
www.absolutepoker.com

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-11-2007, 07:01 PM
So ya'll playing real money?

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 07:04 PM
I was limping after not catching anything in dozens of hands after the final 4 tables and ended up with $0.22 ranking 33rd :(

I kinda liked that shorter toureny even though it was less money...faster server = more hands played...tourney will probably be over in 3 hrs.

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 07:11 PM
I was limping after not catching anything in dozens of hands after the final 4 tables and ended up with $0.22 ranking 33rd :(

I kinda liked that shorter toureny even though it was less money...faster server = more hands played...tourney will probably be over in 3 hrs.

nice finish anyway prolifical, like i said before, I dunno why ur server is so slow. I have dial up and the only problem i have is when im downloading somethin otherwise its fine. I had problems b4 and I simply redownloaded the software. I'm sure youre probably running like a million programs, you seem really busy.

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 07:17 PM
my server isnt slow....its the AP server....its not *that* slow but I was playing 2 freerolls at the same time at AP and WPE I got twice as many hands in at WPE...I noticed that there is a short delay between rakes and bets at AP while WPE was going very smoothly.

Its slow because the place is HUGE and WPE is relatively smaller. AP is bigger than Paradise, UB, and maybe even Pokerstars...although I havent been there in a while.

It all evens out no matter where you play in those freerolls. AP has a bigger purse and would have got more change for 31st or whatever...but it would have taken a few hours longer.

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 08:30 PM
me and my boy are playing the omaha hi lo freeroll , doin very well, check us out he's abarley6

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 10:36 PM
goin nuts in the pl omaha hilo freeroll made the money 42 left out of 3912.
i helped my boy make the $$$$ too.

Prolifical ENG
04-11-2007, 10:39 PM
I was just watchin you in that omaha freeroll...your dominating that shit...think you are in 4th now...your boy isnt too far behind...congrats on your finish....I got work tomorrow....guess I need to start catching up....lol

beautifulrock
04-11-2007, 10:52 PM
thx bro
i appreciate the support, if you have aim we can talk during the tournies.

Prolifical ENG
04-13-2007, 11:55 AM
nah only got MSN.

Haven't been able to get off the ground yet on AP....haven't entered in too many freerolls, but on WPE I can get into the moneys just over half of the time even though I haven't got a top 3 finish yet...its adding up....I will try for bankrolls on both sites. It harder playing in 2 tourneys on 2 different sites...delays in switching windows...hahaha

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-13-2007, 11:57 AM
WTF they don't have a chat on these pokersites like full tilt?

beautifulrock
04-13-2007, 12:22 PM
to prevent cheating, I just use aim

you can chat with others on the tables however.

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
04-13-2007, 01:31 PM
to prevent cheating, I just use aim

you can chat with others on the tables however.


Oh OK using AIM actually aides cheating....Ya'll can tell each other what cards you hold as a matter of fact how is this prevented when playing with real money online?

Prolifical ENG
04-13-2007, 01:44 PM
Oh OK using AIM actually aides cheating....Ya'll can tell each other what cards you hold as a matter of fact how is this prevented when playing with real money online?

When playing on the smaller money tables, it is very difficult to tell. However on the larger tables like $20/40 there is actually a moderator watching the games and can find those things out by watching what hands you play, how you bet, etc. and close your account, bring in legal issues, etc. Observers also can't talk so there is no begging at the tables where people have thousands on their online bankrolls and some people looking for an extra dollar to play.

I don't know if the sites have records of who is on your friends lists to find out there is dishonesty. But even then when people are friends that can happen in real life when 2 friends play together at a table and play against each other competatively.

beautifulrock
04-13-2007, 06:28 PM
yawn, the life of a poker player is a crazy one. Vampirish to be exact. It is now 6:25PM on the east coast and I am just now waking up. I seem to be on a rotating schedule of- play poker 20 hours, sleep for six, meaning I wake up 2 hous later each day. So when you see me tomorrow at 8:30 PM, wish me a good morning!

Prolifical ENG
04-15-2007, 04:41 PM
I'm getting the hang of these freeroll tourneys now. Yesterday I got to the final table but unfortunately I grew disinterested since it was running late and it was a stalemate so alas I came in 9th with about a dollar in money from going in with AJ. I could have easily held out longer and capitalized when blind levels rose but I had to go. The last 30 people drop like flies until there is about 13 people left on 2 tables then the short tables tighten up a lot...even more than on normal tourneys.

TeknicelStylez
04-15-2007, 10:53 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, just about to the third page, but I just wanna post and say thanks for the thread it's definately helping me out alot, you know your shit.

I played hold em' in Atlantic City one time and I got eaten alive but after reading through this thread and playing online for about a month now I feel like I'm ready to do some damage, I took out a hold em tournament in a good 30 minutes yesterday just playing like you told me to.

Just lettin you know the thread is appreciated!

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 05:04 PM
When you placed in a few freerolls and managed to scratch up some change, it is better to enter a few low tourneys to increase the bankroll a little more or go to the lowest limit tables?

Rock, I seen you started doing the lower tourneys....but I took a gamble once in entering a .05/.10 table shortstacked with 50 cents...tried to go into a longer table but as soon as i posted 4 people left and the blinds came too fast..so you know what happened...didn't get anything. At least i got a few cents back from the rake today (every monday) I guess I should get at least a few dollars before doing anything like that. 4-5 bucks at least...thats placing at least top 3 in a freeroll....my 99 cents right now wont do much either.

IRAN
04-16-2007, 05:43 PM
Great thread, really interesting reading. I have been playing Hold em with friends for about 7 years. Only recently started playing on-line, but not doing too well, finishing about 20 ish out of 150 for the last 6 tourneys. I just cant seem to catch a break when it really matters.

This is what happened in the last game. Ace Four off suit in hand, blinds 50/100, someone raised to 300 so I called, everyone else folded. Flop came Ace, Four, Ace. I checked, he checked, Turn Card was King, I checked again, he checked. River was 10 of hearts. I bet 400, I was raised all in and called. He had Ace Ten and I was fucked.

I was pretty gutted, cause I thought I had played it badly, but no matter when I raised I would have been called and ultimately would have lost.

I have also been stung by trips quite a few times, never see those coming!!!

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 06:29 PM
Hmmm...sometimes those can't be avoided. After the flop I likely wouldn't have slow played it and went all in. But chances are the other guy had an ace (and you know it) for trips and might have called you anyway unless he expected you had J or higher....then there is a possibility he would have folded and you would have won. Sometimes you need to be happy with a smaller won pot with a very good hand...you could have won 100+50+300=450.

That was a good loss to learn from! I guess you seen the "kicker trouble" posts in this thread.

But on the other hand if I wasn't in good position I would seldomly play A4 unsuited. The lowest I would play is A7 (maybe)...A9 or 10 a higher possibility depending on the circumstances. If I played A6 and if I took it down I would show people my hand so then they would think I actually do play hands as low as A6.

I guess you just need to excercise predicitng the cards that the other players are holding. Perhaps you didn't understand his raise or maybe you did understand and thought he had trips As and wouldn't fill it.

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 06:41 PM
Oh yeah, if you keep on finishing in that same spot, it seems you are playing tight which is good and can take you far. But the really tight players last in tourneys but never make it to the final table. There is a time when its really time to turn it on if you haven't been consistant with winning chips and you are below the chip average. If you are one of the chip leaders of course you can still play through. Around that time when a quarter of the people are left, the blinds take a higher percentage of most people's stacks since they have been playing tighter and haven't came through, unless they are a chip leader (which they will be willing to play more hands). You just need to realize the value of the chips. Take more chances in stealing blinds when it tightens up and the high stacked people fold. Stealing a blind when there is ante later on gives you almost 2 more bets to wait and play good hands. You also need to realize when the blinds are hurting your stack more, there are more people willing to call your all in because they guess that you are taking a big gamble and they take a chance with a portion of their stack in eliminating another lost soul competing for the final table. That means you need to start wagering before your stack starts looking relatively small.

beautifulrock
04-16-2007, 07:29 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread yet, just about to the third page, but I just wanna post and say thanks for the thread it's definately helping me out alot, you know your shit.

I played hold em' in Atlantic City one time and I got eaten alive but after reading through this thread and playing online for about a month now I feel like I'm ready to do some damage, I took out a hold em tournament in a good 30 minutes yesterday just playing like you told me to.

Just lettin you know the thread is appreciated!

thanks alot tekstyles, its posts like yours that will make me continue to drop knowledge on the forum. My goal is to spread knowledge on the site, help others build an online bankroll, and perhaps one day the corp will have its own "crew" representing at the WSOP. If you have any questions at all, post them here or pm me anytime. I will do the best I can to help those in need. My plans for this week include another omaha post, a post on strategy for online freeroll tournaments, and my introduction to a live cash games. Stay Tuned!

beautifulrock
04-16-2007, 07:49 PM
Great thread, really interesting reading. I have been playing Hold em with friends for about 7 years. Only recently started playing on-line, but not doing too well, finishing about 20 ish out of 150 for the last 6 tourneys. I just cant seem to catch a break when it really matters.

This is what happened in the last game. Ace Four off suit in hand, blinds 50/100, someone raised to 300 so I called, everyone else folded. Flop came Ace, Four, Ace. I checked, he checked, Turn Card was King, I checked again, he checked. River was 10 of hearts. I bet 400, I was raised all in and called. He had Ace Ten and I was fucked.

I was pretty gutted, cause I thought I had played it badly, but no matter when I raised I would have been called and ultimately would have lost.

I have also been stung by trips quite a few times, never see those coming!!!

The only mistake you made there, if any, was to call the A4 for a raise in front. The hand you described was a "cold deck" meaning no matter how the hand was played, all the money was going in no matter what. I would advise avoiding what I call the "ace anythings". The ace is obviously the most popular single card to play, so playing with a good kicker is a must, but if desperate sometimes it is necessary to play a hand like A4. I just suggest being the raiser as opposed to calling the raise. Let's look at what you can and can't beat (playable hands)

Beat
A3 A2 (barely a favorite, split most of the time)
KQ KJ KT QT QJ JT (you are about a 3 to 2 ((60%-40%)) favorite here

even odds
33 22 if your hand is suited, its a virtual coinflip

crushed (4 to 1 or better dog)
AA

dominated (3-4 to 1 dog)
AK AQ AJ AT A9 A8 44

badly beat (2-3 to 1 dog)
A7 A6 A5 KK QQ JJ TT 99 88 77 66 55

as you can see the prospects aren't good against a random hand that would raise.

beautifulrock
04-16-2007, 08:14 PM
When you placed in a few freerolls and managed to scratch up some change, it is better to enter a few low tourneys to increase the bankroll a little more or go to the lowest limit tables?

Rock, I seen you started doing the lower tourneys....but I took a gamble once in entering a .05/.10 table shortstacked with 50 cents...tried to go into a longer table but as soon as i posted 4 people left and the blinds came too fast..so you know what happened...didn't get anything. At least i got a few cents back from the rake today (every monday) I guess I should get at least a few dollars before doing anything like that. 4-5 bucks at least...thats placing at least top 3 in a freeroll....my 99 cents right now wont do much either.

On a .05-.10 table you want a minimum of 40 bbs to even have a shot. Thats 4 bucks. What you were trying I would call a suicide mission, your only hope being the all-in preflop and pray. You CAN'T get blinded off in that situation. You just gotta try and double up right away. I always try to build my bankroll on absolute by playing .60 cent PL omaha hi/lo sit n gos. My reason is I am far and away better than anyone who plays those, and finishing in the top three for me is like 80%. Anything can happen in a no limit hold em game and usually does. I would call my chances of cashing in those like 55-60%. So I just play the odds. That being said, I'm back to the .60 centers now building as I have been continuously bubbled in dollar rebuy tournaments. If you do win a little $$$$ on absolute prolifical, there is a .50c multi-tourny at 5am est. The competition is very weak, like shooting fish in a barrell. After that work your way up to the $1 and $2 dollar no-rebuy tournies. and when you get to about $25 or so, play the $1 rebuys. Next is the $5 no-rebuys when you get to about $100. after that its up to you. This is my building strategy for ABS.

Also I would avoid playing the cash games on absolute altogether, unless you have friendly faces at the table with you. Absolute openly admits they hire proposition players to play on their tables but says they have no vested interest in the players. I disagree. The freerolls may or may not also be filled with these players. They are easy to spot. On absolute, all the props have simple names followed by a three digit number avoiding the popular ones 420,007,911,711...etc. Are these players shills? Maybe, maybe not. But just consider this: You have your own online site whose servers are in costa-rica (not subject to international gaming laws) and your company is located on the mohowk reservation in canada (also not subject to any searches and protected by law) would you be 100% on the up-and-up considering no one could touch you? I probably wouldn't. Why do you think that NO brick and mortar casino would touch an online site? I see unusual patterns in online gaming sites all the time, not just absolute, that make me question the ethics of the site. This is why I rarely play cash games online anymore. The tournies seem to be a much safer route to go, as the investment is small, but the reward is big.

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 08:23 PM
I guess I should start focusing on getting my AP bankroll off the ground. Its hard since on WPE I can place in the freerolls 80% of the time (like you in the PL Omaha) and they finish a couple hours quicker (under 4 hours). When I have more time I will do more on more sites.

I'm pressed for time right now since its exam period...hopefully after I can take some AP ones down too.

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 09:00 PM
Yes, I have seen unusual patterns on some sites. before I noticed this and cashed out after I started losing at regular intervals and why I decided not to actually deposit money into a poker site.

For the suicide mission, I was trying quite the opposite because the site gives rakeback so i tried to play in as many hands as possible hoping with a little luck I could walk out with the same I entered plus the rakeback. My experiment failed.

beautifulrock
04-16-2007, 09:17 PM
Yes, I have seen unusual patterns on some sites. before I noticed this and cashed out after I started losing at regular intervals and why I decided not to actually deposit money into a poker site.

For the suicide mission, I was trying quite the opposite because the site gives rakeback so i tried to play in as many hands as possible hoping with a little luck I could walk out with the same I entered plus the rakeback. My experiment failed.

I didn't mean to imply that the way u were playing was suicide, I meant that trying to play that little was. As far as the rakeback goes, that's just a gimmick to get you to play those cash tables as the amount u get back is less than one tenth you put in. I know u spent tons of time building that .50c in the freerolls and now that time seems wasted. what is the lowest buy-in for multys and SNGs on the WPE?

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 09:29 PM
Yes, it was still suicide....but I never meant to do that "gut shot" move which is sometimes called the "suicide mission".

that 55c was from a 20th place that I got earlier on that day in a freeroll...wasnt all my change....I dont care much for the loss since the goal is to get a top 3 placing which will at least give a start rather than 20 lower placings from playing 100 hours.

rakeback and AA never loses are more for the bigger tables. getting thousands of dollars in rakeback makes it worth it and why there are so much more people playing $1-2 and above...it attracts more of those players.

The Tourney mins are higher...2+0.20 for SNGs (I think Ive seen some lower Omaha ones) and like 2 + 1 multis. Those tourneys also give you the %10 rakeback....but of course that means very little on lower tables.

beautifulrock
04-16-2007, 09:34 PM
wow 2+1 multi? Are you sure? that's one hell of a rake there!

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 09:37 PM
wow 2+1 multi? Are you sure? that's one hell of a rake there!

its the super easyroll $100 guarenteed.....lol

the next one is 5 + 1 $250 guarenteed...some are only $50 guarenteed though

beautifulrock
04-16-2007, 09:48 PM
oh no wonder why, they dont want to lose no matter what. I always wondered why they would take such a hit on the 100k guaranteed when it first started. the total including rakes would only be like 85000, but now i see why. they built the tournies' popularity and now they more than fill the guarantee. the tourny is up to 150k and there is usually 200 grand or more in the pot.

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 09:55 PM
I guess with that super easyroll rake when you lose you get $1 rakeback so its pretty much like paying $1 for a $100 guarantee....looks like around 50 people enter....nowhere near the amount on the 2000 guarentee $1 on AP.

Usually those guarantee tournys are plus/minus 1o% of the guarantee anyway.

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 11:01 PM
Oh yeah....I see you have another omaha post penciled in...I think im going to start...I will start with some play money tables to practice reading the hands.

Prolifical ENG
04-16-2007, 11:25 PM
I watched the last 20 mins of that 50c SNG that you were just playing....you're right...you crushed those guys....lol

beautifulrock
04-17-2007, 01:22 AM
Its very easy when u know what u are doing. I would love to give you lessons on Hi/lo once u get omaha down. It's the best game to play if you are a good reader and opposed to the luck factor. You can devour most of the competition in this game as most is god awful with no understanding what-so-ever of how to play. Even at higher levels, the play is really awful.

TeknicelStylez
04-17-2007, 04:33 AM
I have never seen omaha played... where you find tournaments for that type of game?

beautifulrock
04-17-2007, 05:03 AM
Are we talking live? Because every online site i've played at has omaha on there.
Live I can't find a game anywhere besides the ones I create myself. In the casino you may be able to find pot limit omaha, but its mostly for high rollers. Learn the game first by playing playchips, if you can actually find a table not full of lunatics who don't understand the game. If you ever see an omaha table where no one is raising preflop, sit there. They are playing the game right.

Prolifical ENG
04-17-2007, 10:30 AM
Yeah H/L looks good.....only read the beginner strategy and concepts then watched a few matches. Even at high tables some players seem to get confused by which hand they actually have and forget it MUST be 2 cards from your hand and 3 from the table.

Even then when someone makes a high flush or a full house it seems that they get too excited and start betting too much when there is 2 other people in the pot and the others can very easily have a higher full house.

Also its funny when some players think they flop a wheel that it will always win at least the low....lol

I guess a lot can be learned from those losing hands.

TeknicelStylez
04-17-2007, 04:14 PM
Are we talking live? Because every online site i've played at has omaha on there.
Live I can't find a game anywhere besides the ones I create myself. In the casino you may be able to find pot limit omaha, but its mostly for high rollers. Learn the game first by playing playchips, if you can actually find a table not full of lunatics who don't understand the game. If you ever see an omaha table where no one is raising preflop, sit there. They are playing the game right.

Yea cause I'm about 2-3 hours away from Atlantic City, and I frequent there, but I've been straying away from the poker tables because they got some top players there. I try to stick to craps... but eventually I want to sit down at a table in AC again...

Prolifical ENG
04-17-2007, 04:31 PM
In Atlantic City I wouldn't imagine there would be that many omaha games there.....its more popular on the west coast....many tables.

beautifulrock
04-17-2007, 07:02 PM
Vegas is the mecca of Omaha

beautifulrock
04-17-2007, 07:11 PM
Yeah H/L looks good.....only read the beginner strategy and concepts then watched a few matches. Even at high tables some players seem to get confused by which hand they actually have and forget it MUST be 2 cards from your hand and 3 from the table.

Even then when someone makes a high flush or a full house it seems that they get too excited and start betting too much when there is 2 other people in the pot and the others can very easily have a higher full house.

Also its funny when some players think they flop a wheel that it will always win at least the low....lol

I guess a lot can be learned from those losing hands.

Just keep watchin me play those 60c sngs prolifical, when i show a hand see how many times I play jacks or tens.....almost never! I lay down huge pairs routinely preflop because they are just no good. You are looking for Hi and Lois, both pots or at least 3/4. People don't understand that. They are betting the pot at the nut lo and then they lose half their money because the lo hand can always be split, the high most of the time cannot.

Prolifical ENG
04-17-2007, 09:04 PM
Just keep watchin me play those 60c sngs prolifical, when i show a hand see how many times I play jacks or tens.....almost never! I lay down huge pairs routinely preflop because they are just no good. You are looking for Hi and Lois, both pots or at least 3/4. People don't understand that. They are betting the pot at the nut lo and then they lose half their money because the lo hand can always be split, the high most of the time cannot.

yeah i seen that beginner guy you were playing against thinking the nut lo was a sure thing...but you can always get quartered...lol

beautifulrock
04-20-2007, 01:44 AM
Omaha - A lesson in protection

Even more important than winning a big pot in omaha, is protecting your stack. Avoiding bad draws is a good way to do this. Here are some examples of draws you should dump.

Hand 9876

Flop JT2

although a Q987 make you a straight, only a 7 makes the nuts. add a flush draw on the board to the equation, and that makes 2, possibly 3 cards that make the nuts. Consider if someone is playing AKQ, a likely starting hand, then you are drawing toward a disaster.

hand 7H 5D 4D 2H

flop 6H 6D 3D

you are faced with a raise and a pot sized reraise

You have 2 viable outs, maybe. With the pair on board your flush and straight draws are no good at all, meaning your only hope is to catch a miracle straight flush. Not likely. Dump the hand.

hand 2287 (If you look to previous posts, I warn about playing this hand)

flop AA2 turn K

you are faced with a bet and an all in.

You have made your hand. You have a boat. A call is automatic right? Wrong. This is the ass end boat, the worst of the worst, and the board is telling you that you are likely beat. If you call don't be surprised to see AA, AK, A2 or KK. I fold full houses all the time in omaha. It's what separates the good players from the great. A deuce may be your only out.

When drawing in omaha, always ask yourself how many "nut" outs you have. Outs to a straight or flush may not be "good" outs so be wise when choosing your draws when faced with pot-sized bets. Never draw to a flush or straight with a pair on board, and avoid playing those low pairs preflop altogether. Chase the nuts not the good hand.

Prolifical ENG
04-20-2007, 12:01 PM
In the last few days I had fun in the NL and PL H/L tables. And just like you said there are people raising preflop with garbage and stuff.

I read a section in Phil Hellmuth's book on some strategy but he even admits himself that he isn't that good at it (he still is decent) but has a lot of failed experiments with the game....so it didn't tell me much...it just said its difficult to learn after playing Texas Holdem. So his beginner strategy is obvious....just play tight and only the top starting hands and you will win.

Aside from the errors you have mentioned, I learned right away why many people are bad at this game. Just in that post above....people don't realize the outs. In this game the big hands occur far more often than in Texas Holdem and even more than traditional poker. Get excited over a full house you made and you're screwed.

I think the biggest factor in this game is how many players are playing. If there are 10 people playing, thats 40 cards dealt and in this game there isusually more players in per flop than in holdem and a certain card can make a hand...it is a very high chance someone is holding that specific card. When a flush is the biggest out, I find myself making good folds with my lower flushes...even if it is a jack or queen high or something. And no suprise someone is holding the oh so powerful ace with a 2 (for possible low and other high cards.

So now I pretty much have 20x the play money chips as I started with..lol I guess its good that Im having fun with it...even at play money tables...it is true you need to find a good one where there aren't too many raises preflop.


I looked at the H/L games at my local casinos...and it is true that there are only higher tables...lowest Ive seen is $10-20 and thoe pots usually are over $1000.

beautifulrock
04-21-2007, 08:02 PM
uhhh jusy woke up from the big slumber. 420 was nuts. The mets lost but that was hazy anyway. 20 some hours later I wake up. Time to play poker. Great post prolifical, I agree with it all. You don't have to always play premium hands, but avoid playing the wrong hands. Those middle cards and pairs will kill ya. Its off to the 60c sngs for a while for me. See my strategy for online freerolls soon.

beautifulrock
04-24-2007, 03:20 PM
Freeroll tournament strategy

I've decided to break this up into two sections. The first is for amateurs who are new to the game and endgame strategy for all when the blinds are huge. The second section is for experienced players who read the board, bets, and opponents well.

Section I - Kamikaze 101

So you are new to poker. Not really sure how to outplay opponents yet. Well this section is for you. A simple course in freeroll tournaments for dummies.

1. Hand Selection

Since you are not really gonna understand when and how to bluff given your opponents actions lets simplify the whole process. We are mostly going to play what poker players call top 10 hands. That is the top 10%. These are those hands.

high pairs 100% of the time
AA KK QQ JJ

high connectors 95% of the time
AK AQ

middle pairs 90% of the time
TT 99 88 77

ace medium kicker 80% of the time
AJ AT A9

small pairs 65% of the time
66 55 44 33 22

high connectors 40% of the time
KQ KJ QJ (JT suited only)

weak ace 25% of the time
A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2

Fold every other hand unless free in the big blind or cheap in the small blind.

The % next to the hand description is a rough outline of how often you should play those hands given the circumstances. For instance if faced with a raise and a reraise in front you can easily dump a hand like ace queen as it will generally not be the best hand. The weaker the percentage the less you should call or reraise a raise in front. I would suggest dumping any of the hands in the bottom 3 catagories when faced with a raise. Raising with those hands first however is recommended. Remember its always better to control the action and be the aggressor then call raises from an opponent in control of the hand.

2. Stealing blinds
So now you have picked your hand. Since in this style of play position is irrelevant, you can make your move from anywhere. Raise from any seat. Raise in 1st position you say? Definitely. TRADE SECRET: I've done plenty of experimenting and 1st position is one of the best places to steal from. This raise gives the appearance that your hand is stronger than it actually is because people see it as a very strong move. I routinely steal with mid-holdings like ace ten ace jack etc. and people fold in a flash giving me the blinds.

So this is part one of the strategy. Steal as many blinds as you can without being marked as loose or crazy. One way to affirm this is to steal with great hands and then show the first couple. People will say to themselves, hey he's betting preflop so he must have a hand. Only show the first couple at any new table and never ever show a bluff under any circumstances. This derails the whole strategy.

What to bet? Anywhere from 4x the blind to all-in depending on how comfortable you are with your hand and your stack. If your stack is less than 10x the blind go all-in. Otherwise you are committing yourself anyway and you want to isolate only one hand if called. If bigstacked, play around with the raises because if called, this comes into play in part 3 of this strategy. 4-5x should be enough. Continuously stealing the blinds over the course of a tournament is an integral part of winning.

3. Racing for bucks

Part 2 of the strategy is to play coinflips and dominating hands for all the money. If someone raises play the hands in column 1 for all the money. Reraise all-in. Column 2 and 3 hands can also be played this way but shy away from multiple raises in front as you are likely dominated. Try to avoid this strategy with the other columns. Consider those your stealing hands only.
This is the luck factor of the strategy. remember 22 is a 52% to 48% favorite over AK off suit so you are gambling. It is necessary to win many coinflips during a tournament in order to win but the size of your stack is a determining factor whether or not you go broke if you lose.

4. So you got called.....and are out of position

Part 3 of the strategy is the post flop play. If you are isolated against 1 opponent there is a 67% chance that they did NOT hit the flop. If you are 1st to act, bet half the pot no matter what flops whether it helps you or not. If they raise, they probably have you beat. Fold. If they call, they either have a decent hand, a draw, or a made hand and are slowplaying. This is where the toughest decision in the strategy comes to play. If you think they are on a draw or an ok hand, bet half the pot again on the turn. If they call or raise, you are most likely beat. Don't fire a third bullet. Check and see their reaction. If they fire at you, you have 3 choices. All-in which is pretty unlikely to work at this point, call only if you have a hand, or fold. Another way to play it is to check the turn after a call on the flop and see what happens. If they check back you can save that half the pot sized bet for the river. Firing 3 bullets is only advisable if you feel your opponent was on a draw and missed.

5. So you got called.....and are in position

If you are in position (last to act) and your opponent checks, fire half the pot. Basically what your opponent does will determine what you do. If your opponent is check calling all the way to the river, beware the slowplay. Check behind unless you are sure they were on a draw.

6. So you got called......by multiple players

Avoid this strategy with multiple opponents in the pot unless you actually have the hand. It is very tough to bluff many opponents out of a hand. The best time to try a bluff in this situation is to check the flop, and if everybody else checks, bet half the pot on the turn if an innocuous card falls. Mostly you are trying to avoid this situation altogether. Try your best to isolate against one hand and attack.

7. Slowplaying

Unless its the stone cold unbeatable nuts, don't bother. It works contrary to your style and therefore can be easily read by smart opponents. Betting directly into a monster is a far more deceptive move and will pay off more in the long run.

8. Conclusion of Section I

So there it is. Easy as pie. You hardly have to think at all. Play dirty and don't get caught. While this strategy has a low chance of success overall, If you manage to get lucky early and build a stack, you will see your success rate increase as your stack does. The strategy will be at its peak near the money when players are playing their tightest. You will be able to steal with just about anything then. You will find you get less and less callers as the tournament goes on. This is because most of the worst players are being eliminated. Good Luck and happy hunting!

oh yea almost forgot, If you get any of the hands in the 1st 3 columns on the first hand of the tournament, go all in. It will either end up as a huge time saver if you bust, or a huge early advantage if you win.

Section II coming tonight!

beautifulrock
04-25-2007, 05:47 AM
Section II - Freeroll strategy for advanced players.

Note: This strategy is for stackbuilding early in the tournament. When the blind structure becomes unmanageable at the end of the tournament, refer to section I tactics.

1. Hand selection

While I recommend only playing top ten hands in section 1, the more advanced players should expand their preflop holdings to include any and all suited connectors and high suited junk hands like K2, Q3, etc. as well as low non-suited connectors like 45, 67. While you probably shouldn't raise too often with these hands, playing them for a call with adequate pot odds is a must especially if getting 3 to 1 or better. The idea is to see as many cheap flops as possible and try to catch or outplay your opponent.

2. stealing blinds

Not as necessary as in section I. Of course you want to naturally try to steal from the cutoff (seat behind the button) and the button to win the blinds every so often, but small pots aren't what we are going after. We want the monster pots that occur from taking down a superior preflop hand. Your money should come in large chunks with little risk overall to your stack.

3. Preflop Racing

While in section 1 this is necessary, it kind of works contrary to this style of play. After all you are trying to defeat the luck factor and this is gambling with your tournament life.

4. The preflop minimum raiser

Kill this guy. Make him pay for his stupidity. Call with any kind of junk hands in the blinds and look to flop a monster. Many times it won't happen, but the times it does more than make up for all the misses. Minimum preflop raising in hold em is absolutely stupid. You price in multiple opponents to call which is exactly what you don't want especially with a holding like aces or kings. Make them pay and pay dearly.

5. The overraiser

The player who exhibits section I style. Avoid like the plague! He is trying to beat you with dumb luck. He wants all the money in preflop. Don't fall into this trap. Wait for a better situation.

6. After the flop

Trust your reads. Draw cheaply to flushes and straights or semi-bluff all-in if you feel your opponent is weak. If your opponent checks, fire away, If he bets and you have nothing, raise or fold. But trust your instincts. If something looks like just a continuation bet, attack. If they bet big preflop then check on the flop, confirm if they were slowplaying by putting in a tester bet. The thing you want to do is - PLAY POKER! Show them you can play too. If you win a pot with nothing show your opponent, and then the next time you are in a pot with them and have a big hand play it exactly the same way. The likelihood of them calling will increase.

7. When to change to section I style

When you see that you are close to the money and everybody is tightening up, as well as an unmanageable blind structure, go nuts. Steal like Danny Ocean. If hugestacked go directly after the shortstacks. Apply tons of pressure. Make them fear you.

8. The final table

If shortstacked stick to section I style until 4 handed. Once down to 4 handed you cant be picky with what you play. Just find any hand and go. Most of the time the first raiser 4 handed wins the pot. If bigstacked attack the shortstacks ruthlessly preflop and post, and play a greater frequency of hands as the number of seats decreases.

9. Heads up

The aggressor is usually the winner. Any hand is at least worth a call of the big blind. Raise preflop a lot. The blind structure will undoubtedly be so high at this point that any hand you steal with will pay huge dividends. Any pair and any ace are good enough to push all in preflop. The chances that both players have a pair heads up is less than 1 in 300 so you are most likely a favorite to win the hand. Dominate the action. Keep your opponent on the ropes. And most important....WIN!

Good luck everybody. I hope I have helped you at least a little. If you have any specific situational questions post them here or pm me. I'm always open to answer your questions.

beautifulrock
04-27-2007, 09:00 AM
I found a new online site to play on. Was sick and tired of the ridiculous bubble beats on Absolute so I decided to check bodog out. Good move. Signed up for the $500 freeroll at 4am. Just finished first in my first tournament there. I was shocked to get paid out $120 for first. These badboys put Absolute poker freerolls to shame.

beautifulrock
05-02-2007, 07:07 AM
After a few days of bubbles and small money cashes on bodog I finally hit. The $2 rebuy $1000 guarantee is a great tournament. The competition is very weak and the payout ($300 for 1st) is way above average for a $2 tourny. I slammed the competition at the final table taking the prize. I played loose early building my stack to the chip lead after the first break when the rebuy ends. Then I completely pulled a 180 and played extremely tight up until the final table. Once I made that I was somewhere around the middle, and my style changed once again, stealing as much as I could and fast trapping my opponents. One player even commented that I was impossible to read the way I was playing. Anyway 7 out of the 8 others at the table fell to my sword. All in all a fun experience with no sore losers and gracious exits. I'm now going to try my first cashout to see if I need to deposit first or not. If I don't I will recommend this site to all those wanting to build a bankroll without the hassle of depositing money first. Absolute gave me the runaround on the private tourny for Wutangcorp.com so I will try again here. I'll let all you pokerheads here know if I am successful.

Cash game introduction coming soon.

beautifulrock
05-02-2007, 01:21 PM
bodog approved my cashout (check by mail) with no deposit necessary. While the freerolls are huge 2000-4000 people they are fairly easy if you have enough patience (5 hours). A final table finish will net you enough money to move up to one and two dollar tournaments. From there the skys the limit. Any questions on advice regarding bodog, pm me or post them here.

beautifulrock
05-02-2007, 02:27 PM
here is the final hand of the bodog tournament

me 256,993.64 chips hole cards Js 4s small blind (dealer)
him 191,006.36 chips hole cards 2c 4c big blind

ante 800 blinds 4000/8000

I call the big blind 4000 and he checks pot 17600

Flop 7s 2s 7c

he leads out 42,840

His betting pattern suggested that when he overbet the pot he tended to have a weak hand. No way I put him on a seven. I figure he hit his deuce and wants me gone. I decide to test him with a semibluff. I reraise all in. He calls immediately. I thought I was destroyed. He turns over the 4c 2c. I have three jacks, two fours, and 9 spades to win. with 14 outs and 2 streets to go the odds are 49%-48% (3% tie) in his favor. Not a horrible situation to get all the money in.

turn 3c

now he is a 66%-34% favorite. Still pretty good odds to win with only one card to come.

river 9s

the spade gives me the flush and the win. The situation was sticky in that if I lost I only would have had about 66,000 left in chips. Plus there was a $100 difference between first and second. But with the amount he bet and had left I simply could not call. I had to either go all in or fold. I decided to gamble. It paid off.

Prolifical ENG
05-02-2007, 02:54 PM
That seems good...I might try that site.

WPE I haven't progressed much. The lower cash tournaments don't pay that well even with the rakeback. I've managed to double my bankroll in .05/.10 limit games along with the rakeback but there is still a yo-yo effect. That site is better with the limit tables. It would take a while before making a first $100 on there. It is meant more for people that play at least $1/$2. SNGs come and go, but there is usually only 5 people in those. $1-$2 tourneys would be better.

beautifulrock
05-02-2007, 03:13 PM
Here is another interesting hand heads up from the same tournament. This undoubtedly was my most memorable hand from the tournament. I'm going to do something different here. I'm gonna give you the actions, and ask you guys to guess what his hand was. I'll reveal the answer later.

My stack 212,876.82
His stack 235,123.18

ante 800
blinds 4000/8000

My hand As Kc
His hand ??????

He is in the small blind and calls 4000
I reraise the minimum completely by accident, I meant to make a pot sized raise.

He calls 8000

pot 33,600

flop 6c 2d 4s

I lead out with 8000 to probe him. He raises the minimum to 16000
I call 8000

pot 65,600

(At this point I would like to mention this hand was played horribly up to this point.)

I have about 180,000 left

turn card 2h

I check

he bets 34800 about half the pot.
I call 34800

I have about 145,000 left

pot 135,200

river Qd

I check
he bets 58,600

pot is 193,800 I have ace high.

What do I do? Do I call leaving myself with 87,000 left if I lose. Do I raise and pray he folds? What would you do? What do you think he has?

I will reveal my action as well as his hand later. Meanwhile I want to see what you guys think.

beautifulrock
05-02-2007, 03:24 PM
That seems good...I might try that site.

WPE I haven't progressed much. The lower cash tournaments don't pay that well even with the rakeback. I've managed to double my bankroll in .05/.10 limit games along with the rakeback but there is still a yo-yo effect. That site is better with the limit tables. It would take a while before making a first $100 on there. It is meant more for people that play at least $1/$2. SNGs come and go, but there is usually only 5 people in those. $1-$2 tourneys would be better.

found out some rather disturbing news for you. Canadian players can't play on bodog! I'm tryin to figure out why.

Prolifical ENG
05-02-2007, 03:26 PM
he probably had an open ended straight draw with A-3 or something. You went all in and your K kicker won.

beautifulrock
05-02-2007, 05:41 PM
I flat called, and heres why......with the amount of money in the pot he could have called that raise with just about anything. I figure I call I may have him on just a draw like you said or he could have been trying to steal with a complete miss. I lose the pot there's still a decent shot to come back. He turned over Ac 9c. You were right I had him outkicked but he wasnt on any kind of draw. He played this hand really shitty, and I made a really tough call on the end with ace high. after the score was 339 - 108 (my 1st chiplead heads up) and i won soon after that.

beautifulrock
05-12-2007, 11:14 PM
playin the 100k guaranteed on bodog 4pm sunday. 1st place pays 25000. I'll keep ya posted.

beautifulrock
05-18-2007, 06:45 PM
CASH GAME STRATEGY

Chapter 1 : An Introduction to the differences

I have been incredibly successful over the course of my career playing in both tournaments and cash games but I can say with absolute certainty, THEY ARE NOT THE SAME! The biggest difference between the two is the fact that everything you do in a tournament is so definite and rigid, one wrong move and you're done, so it's not really a good time to experiment and try different things. Your goal is clear and well defined, whereas in a cash game you never have a clue what your goal is until everyone has emptied their pockets and all the money is on the table. In tournaments, you want your moves to be stronger, so as to put the fear of death in your opponents. In cash games you want to "milk" your opponent for your last dime so the moves are designed to be small and tactful.

The bluffing aspect of the two games may be one of the biggest differences. In a tournament you must bluff to win. It's as necessary as breathing. You have a short amount of time to accomplish your goal and without stealing several pots, you will be blinded away unmercifully. In a cash game the blinds are uniform and never increase, so bluffing is not really a necessity. I have literally played for 16 hours straight and not bluffed at a single pot, and still wound up with a monster stack at the end of the night. In a tournament where the wrong move could lose you your buy-in, in a cash game the wrong move could cost you all your money and all the work you put in for several hours. You must adjust your game to make up for the differences and avoid the cash game pitfalls.

beautifulrock
05-20-2007, 04:58 AM
Chapter 2 : Random thoughts on Preflop Selection

In a tournament your preflop selection of hands is incredibly important. You must make good decisions as far as the strength of your hand is concerned because you can expect to be up against the strongest of hands that there are. In a cash game, depending on your opponents, use your imagination as to what they are playing because it could be anything. You want to look for anything at all that can give away the strength of their hand. For instance, I played with one player who still to this day (nobody gave up his tell) sighs whenever he has a monster hand. It has almost become instinctual as is my action afterward. I raise, he sighs and leans back in his chair, then throws in a huge raise. I muck before his bet hits the pot. I know he has it. He told me. Remember poker is a form of communication. Those who listen and learn to interpret the signals are winners. Those who are more interested in their IPOD's and that 17th beer are losers. It's just that simple. The point I'm trying to hammer home here is that it really doesn't matter at all what you play. It's what you do with it that matters. Cash games are about story weaving. You play any two cards and represent a hand. When I have a strong hand I like to represent a weaker hand and when I have a weak hand I like to represent a strong hand and vice versa. Mix it up. Keep your opponents guessing. This is generally completely opposite my tournament strategy which is to play weak hands strong and strong hands strong and keep my betting uniform throughout. I play so many different ways in a cash game because the opponents are generally the same for a long period of time so the same move might be recognized and not work the second time. Mix up your holdings and raises preflop. Limp with aces or raise huge. It doesn't really matter. Obviously a huge raise will signify you have aces, but you can "act" weak and still pull it off while inducing a reraise. Sometimes a slowplayed pair of aces will win you the biggest pot of the night. Sometimes you will allow your opponents to suck out on you and you will go broke. If you must slowplay a hand preflop, learn how to get away from it if the hand doesn't go your way. Aces are a great thing, but they aren't omnipotent. Learn how to get away from them if your read tells you that you are beat. The strongest of hands can be the biggest of losers in the cash games, and the worst hands imaginable can be the biggest winners. It's all a matter of how you play them.

Longbongcilvaringz
05-20-2007, 07:20 AM
good advice,

cheers.

M_N
05-20-2007, 09:27 AM
Yesterday I played a free roll and won emourmous $0.6
well since I tilted couple weeks ago my poker accounts contained $0.03
with that $0.6 I played ONE hand limit hold em. Got QQ and won $1.4
now I had enough money to play a full table non turbo NL $1+0.3 si'n'go tournament. It look like that I could have lost the game but I won it and got $7(7.13 total)
so yesterday I multiplied 237,66666 times my money ;)

beautifulrock
05-20-2007, 02:03 PM
^^^Great job! Although your math has confused me, but I guess thats just a part of being Scandanavian. I can't seem to figure you guys out at the tables either, lol. Anyway, keep up the good work and let us know of your progress...

Chapter 3 : Preflop Reads and Strategy for avoiding pitfalls Tonight!

Prolifical ENG
05-20-2007, 02:05 PM
If you must slowplay a hand preflop, learn how to get away from it if the hand doesn't go your way.

That is a critical sentence. In cash games it is most important to fold your big hand that you slow played and know that your opponents hit their hands later. If you don't it will kill your bankroll, and if you have had a little luck with other hands, you might just break even for the session.

It happens all the time, people continue to raise when they made trips from their high pocket pair when a flush or straight is highly possible.

beautifulrock
05-20-2007, 02:13 PM
As prolifical will surely attest, the hardest thing in the game to do is fold a really good hand when you know you're beat. Doing so separates the good players from the truly great players.

beautifulrock
05-21-2007, 04:07 AM
Chapter 3 : Preflop Reads and Strategy for avoiding pitfalls

PART A : The Squeeze Play

In a tournament, the third raise is almost always Kings or Aces. I routinely fold ace queen or even ace king when faced with a raise and a reraise. In a cash game, however, third raises preflop can mean anything depending on who you are playing with. I'll give you an example:

Player A is a loose player who raises routinely with any holdings. Player B is a player who reads well and is generally tight but aggressive. Player A raises in early position with a low suited connector. Player B recognizes the player is weak and re-raises with an ace rag suited. You are in third position with pocket threes. You know the first hand is probably really weak and player B is using that read to take advantage of the situation. Now its your turn and you make what is known as a "squeeze play". You raise a huge amount and both opponents fold like lightning. Why?
You have just represented a monster hand because of the third raise. They absolutely cannot call because your hand appears to be a dominating one. They have to put you on a hand like aces, kings or ace king all of which have them crushed. Its a neat and tricky play that is absolutely effective when the read is right. I would say it is about 85-90% effective, that is you won't get called but 10-15% of the time. Don't try it too often however as eventually your opponents will catch on and they will call you. Used properly and sparingly, this is one of the best bluff moves in the game.

beautifulrock
05-21-2007, 11:37 PM
Part B : The Stop and Go

One of the worst mistakes amateurs make in a cash game is to give up the identity of aces in early position. They flat call in early position with bullets and then when raised, checkraise a huge amount, announcing to the world "I HAVE ACES!!!!". Instead of such an amateurish play, I will tell you about a move designed to both increase pot size preflop and disguise your aces so a medium to high pair will be trapped for all their money. In early or first position, instead of checking, raise 3-5x the blind. If re-raised and isolated against one other player, flat call instead of pushing. This is one of the best disguises of aces in the game. Now if the flop comes low and you are first to act, check to your opponent and wait for them to throw in a huge bet with their overpair. Now that they are committed you can safely go all in and expect a call. They won't believe their eyes when you turn over bullets! This is a low risk (about 10-20% failure rate) high reward play that works wonders toward building a monster stack.

***If you are first or last to act, and your opponent checks, beware the possibility that they flopped a set. It may save you from losing huge.

Avoid the limp-raise in first position with aces for two reasons:
1. You may not get raised and you are stuck in an unraised pot with multiple opponents
2. It is a dead giveaway

Prolifical ENG
05-28-2007, 11:11 AM
My time on WPX continues. Last week I actually lost money, but with the rakeback it appears I have broke even when I got my money back today...lol

My losses are simple as I shouldn't have been playing later on in the week when I wasn't in the mood for "really playing". That is, I was playing like an amateur.

Even though I have improved significantly over the last year in my tournament and no-limit game, I can still thrive in limit poker. Of course the game is stupid in a way, you only need to worry about a few things:

In a tournament when you are the chip leader, you can play differently based on the rest of the field and whos left, etc....Beautifulrock already explained 2 playing methods when you are up or down...but consider that is for freeroll strategy...however it can work for other low entry tourneys.

In limit poker you shouldn't switch the way that you play when you are winning or losing. When winning you may feel more lucky catching cards you might start playing any 2 using your luck...only to come into a big pot and you break even again. When people start losing, not catching cards...maybe even get dealt AA then KK right after and they never held up. Then you start wondering why the world isn't fair, instead of playing each hand at that time instead of remembering those losses. Then again gambles are taken by playing hands you would no normally play just hoping for a perfect flop until you are out of chips. Perhaps they are on tilt...you aren't playing...youa re feeling. You don't even need to bluff that much, although stealing those small pots time to time with perfect timing is easy.

Thats what I was doing.....my flops seen statistic was over 50%. Usually it is around 15-20% on a full table.

Usually I'm the one who preys on those people. Perhaps someone is catching everything....sometime Im going to swoop down and steal a pot off of him. Same as those players that start loosing. Their last few chips they wait for a half decent hand and then raise only to see my re-raise to get them all in...they want me to...but chances are they have a low suited connector...Im favoured to win.

Only other thing is to attack the new players. Especially if they buy in short...short money is usually scared money...unless they are truly an expert and they know how to play that position. But usually an experienced player would rather buy into a game with the heavy weapons to win big pots.

beautifulrock
05-28-2007, 06:57 PM
Here is a question.....

What do you do when somebody is playing as agressive as possible on the table? He puts up pressure on every player on the table by raising or betting high before the flop...so how do you attack?
With pocket pairs? - while I'm waiting for good cards the blinds kill me.
Shall I go All-In and show a strong hand?
Or is the best way to attack that bastard with terrible cards, 2/7, A/3 etc. you know the list...


I'm assuming you are talking tournaments because you mention the blinds eating you up. In a cash game the solution would be simple, hang back and wait for the nuts then crack him. But in a tournament strategy where the time is short and you need to make a move or be blinded out, this type a player who raises every other hand is your best bet to double up. Aggression is only scared of one thing, extreme aggression. Pick a hand thats likely to be a favorite, (any pair/any ace/high suited connectors) and push over the top all in. Three things can happen.

1. He folds and you win the pot right there
2. He calls and you win a showdown
3. He calls and you lose a showdown

2 out of 3 of these occurrences are good for you. That is why you are always more than a 50% favorite when making this move and pushing first. In a tournament you have to make moves eventually this is the type of opponent you want to try and crack. With such aggression and so many moves preflop it is more than likely that his holdings are minimal at best. Try and gamble with the best of it. Don't attack players like this with really bad hands. They tend to call.

Suga Duga
05-29-2007, 03:11 AM
thanks for the quick response man, that's the kind of information I need, so thanks a lot!!!

Roman Deini
05-29-2007, 12:48 PM
Some insightful tips beautifulrock. Last weekend had a bit of luck in a pokergame with family members. Had a pocket 2 in my hand so went along with the rest. Flop had 2 two's and a jack or queen. I raised, 3 people called. Turn I raised and 2 people called. River I raised and they called me. Shoulda seen the look on their faces when I showed the pocket two's in my hand.

beautifulrock
05-30-2007, 04:32 AM
Question No.2 - Slow Play (Tournament) Heads up

It was last summer as I played on Europoker as one guy killed me with his slow play. He NEVER raised, called nearly everything (including all-in) and never bet more than the blinds were.

Most of the time I tried to be aggressive with this player, after 3 hours, I was mentally done, cause nearly everytime I attacked he showed me the nuts.
How do you play a guy who is playing slow so solid without raising ONE time and showing no signs of havin strong hands? He was simply untouchable, one of the best I've ever seen.


For the slowplay artist the answer is easy. Match him move for move playing just as slow as he does. One constant among slow players is their innate knack for not recognizing when they themselves are being slowplayed. Use this to your advantage and keep the pots small on the front end of hands. Only spring into action when you are sure your hand is better. Avoid betting mediocre holdings on the river as this is a bad play against this opponent.

beautifulrock
06-04-2007, 07:34 PM
sorry guys for the delay with my cash game strategy. I've been playing 15 hours a day on bodog so not much time. chapter 3 part c coming soon - the suck in.

Prolifical ENG
06-08-2007, 07:06 PM
Wow....look at this hand my brother lost with....lol At the end of the day the guy was short stacked and was going all in anyway.

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 107186451
$3/$6 Texas Hold'em (Split Limit) - 10:53:00 08/06/2007 ET
Table 'Bring in', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 10 is the button. Small Blind $1, Big Blind $3
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (sitOut) : Player 1, amount $173.50, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Player 2, amount $26.50, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : Player 3, amount $140.25, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Player 4, amount $92.50, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (sitOut) : Player 5, amount $52, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : zingzaps, amount $280.25, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : Player 8, amount $50.75, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : Player 9, amount $270, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : Player 10, amount $242.25, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Player 2: Small Blind ($1)
Player 3: Big Blind ($3)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to zingzaps: [3s, 3c]
Player 4: Fold
zingzaps: Raise ($6)
Player 8: Fold
Player 9: Fold
Player 10: Fold
Player 2: Raise ($8)
Player 3: Fold
zingzaps: Call ($3)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [3h, 9d, 3d]
Player 2: Bet ($3)
zingzaps: Call ($3)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Jh]
Player 2: Check ($0)
zingzaps: Bet ($6)
Player 2: Raise ($12)
zingzaps: Call ($6)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Jd]
Player 2: Bet ($2.50)
zingzaps: Call ($2.50)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Player 2: Show Cards ($0)
zingzaps: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $53.25, Rake $2.75
Summary Player 2: bet $26.50, won $53.25, net $26.75, HoleCards [Jc, Js], HiHand [four of a kind, jacks] [Js, Jh, Jd, Jc, 9d], won $53.25 from main pot
Summary zingzaps: bet $26.50, won $0, net $-26.50, HoleCards [3s, 3c]

Prolifical ENG
06-08-2007, 07:09 PM
I guess its not as bad as this though:

http://www.highstakesdb.com/forum/Topic37164-16-1.aspx

beautifulrock
06-09-2007, 01:01 AM
The first scenario happened to me except i had deuces against jacks. Thats unimaginable torture lol

Prolifical ENG
06-17-2007, 03:51 PM
I officially made my first $100 without making a deposit at World Poker Exchange (although I did make 1 sports bet on WSEX in attempt to support their rake free poker...bet $10 to win $14.00 (-140)).

Ive been playing for about 2 months averaging about an hour a day....never really took a freeroll at the beginning but just placed high many times to get my first $10 then worked at limit tables for dimes, NL $10 tables and $2 SNGs. I now plan on doing more $5 + 1, $250 guarantees.

Rock how are you doing on Bodog now? I guess if you're keeping up you must have cashed out a few times.

beautifulrock
06-17-2007, 03:59 PM
I'm currently in the 40k guaranteed about to cash. After 1.5 months on bodog my net winnings are $4800 - 1500 in cashouts and 3300 on there now. I was all over the tournament leader board last month and this, and thursday night I won the 6k guarantee $20 rebuy for $1800. I've been busy. Thats why its been hard to keep up with my posting. will continue cash game soon and congrats prolifical on your milestone. keep building and growing that stack.

beautifulrock
06-17-2007, 05:29 PM
Finished 12th in the 40k. i made $480. kinda disappointed about not making the final table tho.

TeknicelStylez
06-22-2007, 11:45 PM
im dling WPX right now I was playing PS but apparently you making gwop wit no deposit on WPX I'ma try my luck too

TeknicelStylez
06-23-2007, 11:44 AM
ok so now I'm on WPX, AP, and PS

here are my IDS

PS: Got Nickels?
AP: GotNickels
WPX: GotNickels

I've been playing freeroll tournaments in all three for the past 3 days, I usually wind up getting distracted and not being able to finish but today i aint got shit to do and I'm playing serious, I'm up for a Buy In Freeroll in about 30 minutes on AP...

beautifulrock
06-23-2007, 02:25 PM
avoid ap like the plague.

2 years on ap total winnings approx $4000
just under 2 months on bodog total winnings $6000

TeknicelStylez
06-23-2007, 04:14 PM
hmmm so you think bodog is better? I'm not making any cash deposits though I'm flat broke, if anything I'll take the miniscule amount of money im making in AP and go to bodog

Prolifical ENG
06-23-2007, 04:24 PM
Id play bodog if I could, Canadians are restricted form that site. Freerolls can give you a wad if you can take it.

On WPX it is very easy to get a few cents from the freerolls since there is less people in them but only $50 total. If you play in about a dozen freerolls you can easily scratch up a few dollars to get started.

Id avoid PS too.

TeknicelStylez
06-23-2007, 04:42 PM
hmmm thanks for the information guys, I'll prolly just play all of em at random, since they all have different freeroll times, I don't gotta sit and wait 4 hours for the next freeroll after I get knocked out on an early all in or something, or when I come home I can sign onto all of em and just look for the quickest starting freeroll... Even if they aren't good to make money people actually play seriously unlike play money so it's good practice IMO

beautifulrock
06-23-2007, 10:56 PM
i started on bodog with nothing. the freerolls payout huge ($120-$240) for 1st depending on the tournament. problem is they only run at 3 times 4am, 240pm, and 1040pm est. there is also a 30 pts freeroll at 915pm which you can play once as they start you with 50pts. absolute is a complete waste of time. I can tell you at least half a dozen times where they have screwed me or just done something underhanded. If you believe that a doom switch doesnt exist, try withdrawing money and see how the cards treat you afterward. crooked.

Longbongcilvaringz
06-24-2007, 10:24 AM
if you can some general heads up tips/strategies would be helpful.

in the last two games ive played in the last week i managed to surrender chip dominance and eventually lose heads up, and then bomb up in the most recent game playing far to erratically. i think im a bit rusty since i havent played for a while, time to start taking the games more seriously i think.

props on keeping the thread going rock.

beautifulrock
06-24-2007, 11:54 AM
if you can some general heads up tips/strategies would be helpful.

in the last two games ive played in the last week i managed to surrender chip dominance and eventually lose heads up, and then bomb up in the most recent game playing far to erratically. i think im a bit rusty since i havent played for a while, time to start taking the games more seriously i think.

props on keeping the thread going rock.

no problem.

Heads up is a different animal from 10-9 handed poker. For the most part, when you get to heads up in a mtt tourny, the blinds will be huge and there will be little room to play. Therefore the two defining factors toward winning will be luck and aggression. While you can't control luck, you can take control of the action by raising as much as possible. Any ace and any pair is good enough to push all in preflop. The odds of both players having a pair heads up is a little worse than 300-1 so dont be afraid to call an all in with any pair. In the small blind, you have the odds to call with any hand so broaden your hand selection considerably. When your opponent is on the shortstack, fire relentlessly and force them into a decision for all their chips, and don't be ashamed to bust someone with a weaker hand. I routinely call all-ins with hands like k7 q9 as these hands are not likely to be a considerable underdog (60-40% or so against an ace). Don't be afraid to lose and don't play tight. You simply don't have the time to wait for a monster. REMEMBER: In heads up chances are both players have nothing. To the aggressor go the spoils.

and if you are looking for a barometer to decide whether to go all in here is mine

flop- any ace , any pair , any two high connectors

post flop- middle pair or better

Listen, playing this way is absolutely not foolproof, but you give yourself the best chance to win. If the heads up situation is one where you have lots of chips and lots of blinds, you still want to be aggressive but you can scale back on the all ins. Steal relentlessly.

TeknicelStylez
06-25-2007, 12:09 AM
that last tip was a jewel you're skilling this thread Rock, thanks for the advice

Longbongcilvaringz
06-25-2007, 12:32 AM
thanks for the quick reply man, will try and implement some of that in my next game, possibly tonight.

infact its going to be really helpful, last game i played the guy i was up against was extremely tight, obviously just waiting for a big hand. and i didnt make him pay for it, in the end he got his hand relatively early, but still had chip dominance so he destroyed me. its always hard to know what hand will be good enough to push in pre flop, with some degree of confidence that your opponent has a weaker hand. your tips are pretty good in this regard.

cheers.

TeknicelStylez
06-25-2007, 08:36 PM
Thanks for blessing me on Bodog Rock as soon as I get done with court tommorow I'm going to my moms house to hit the tourneys

beautifulrock
06-27-2007, 12:15 PM
It's been a great month on bodog, I am challenging for overall tournament leader. here is all my cashes so far and my corresponding bankroll...

cashout-->balance day
105.00-->1955.63 -/02
278.00-->2122.63 -/02
42.50-->1942.21 -/03
144.00-->1880.86 -/04
34.16 -->1806.02 -/04
58.41 -->1831.49 -/05
72.00 -->1859.43 -/05
100.00-->1937.33 -/05
32.40 -->1767.53 -/05
125.00-->1756.76 -/06
18.00 -->1749.69 -/06
175.00-->1677.09 -/07
40.25 -->1562.84 -/07
78.00 -->1640.84 -/07
55.00 -->1537.24 -/08
36.00 -->1562.24 -/08
900.00-->2242.74 -/09 - withdrew 600
348.00-->1511.94 -/10
402.00-->1889.94 -/10
166.40-->2056.34 -/10
40.00 -->1882.89 -/11
21.00 -->1811.89 -/12
36.00 -->1724.79 -/13
1800.00->3103.29 -/15
69.00 -->3120.79 -/15
72.00 -->3100.19 -/16
56.00 -->3140.79 -/16
288.00-->3395.79 -/16
400.00-->3644.29 -/17
140.00-->3697.49 -/18
72.00 -->3689.49 -/18
72.00 -->3396.09 -/19
172.80-->3242.39 -/20
60.00 -->3187.39 -/20
966.00-->4051.39 -/21
91.50 -->4099.39 -/21
61.60 -->4105.99 -/21
120.00-->4218.49 -/21
825.00-->4953.99 -/22
401.70-->5335.69 -/22
60.00 -->5237.69 -/22
714.00-->5807.19 -/24
66.19 -->5703.98 -/24
50.00 -->5735.48 -/25
14.85 -->5684.83 -/25
36.00 -->5660.33 -/25
54.00 -->5407.83 -/25
132.00-->5311.83 -/26
178.50-->5283.83 -/26
705.60-->5796.43 -/27


cashes 50/300 total tournaments

TeknicelStylez
06-27-2007, 12:39 PM
Damn rock you eatin em up

Prolifical ENG
06-29-2007, 06:11 PM
nice roll rock...puts my $150 made this month to shame...lol jk anyone who can make some money without a deposit is at least decent.

that won tourney on the 15th was key...after that seems that you placed high in a few others on average every 4 days.

The shape of my bank I now have room for more $2, 5, & 10 tournament opportunities instead of playing the dime and quarter tables.

beautifulrock
06-30-2007, 11:00 PM
I just had to post this. This just happened to me in a tournament and is one of my favorite slowplay. I call it the third wheel or hitchhiker slow play.

blinds 15/30

ardyess is in the sb for 15
guilty sham is in the bb for 30

all fold to me and i limp in with 5s 5d in 5th position

ardyess calls

guilty sham checks

flop 10s 9d 5c

ardeyss bets 30 the minimum

guilty sham raises to 90

I flat call

ardyess calls

turn 3c

ardyess checks

guilty sham bets 210

I flat call

ardyess calls

river 9h

ardyess checks

guiltysham checks

i go all in for 710

ardyess folds

guilty sham calls and shows As Th for 2 pair tens and nines with an ace kicker

i have fives full of nines and win a pot of 2440


So what happened?

I limped in middle position because i saw that guiltysham was in the big blind and one of the looser players raising and calling raises a lot. With a hand like pocket fives my hope is to hit a set and have him controlling the action in early position. His check in the big blind surprised me (even much more so later when I found out he actually had a hand) but when the flop came 10 high with a rainbow and I hit the set in position I knew I had struck gold. I remember thinking before the betting began 'how am I gonna extract as many chips....oh wait... a bet!...a raise!!! Now I can re-raise and surely blow the original bettor off the hand, or I can hitchhike in the hand and simply call representing a top pair with an unsure kicker or a draw hand like queen jack. Not only did this plan work as ardyess called but it also induced a second bet on the turn. At this point I could have raised and again blown ardyess off the hand who at this point I put on queen jack or king jack but that three on the turn was a great card for me as I was pretty sure one of the two was drawing dead. ardyess called the 210 bet and I hoped the board paired as the river fell. The actions were a blur. they checked quickly, I went all in quickly, ardyess folded quickly and guilty sham called in a flash. The result of the hand was inevitable as far as sham was concerned but by playing it the way I did, got another 270 chips from ardyess. This is an example of a good time to slowplay and why you should always watch out for that third wheel in the hand who is slow calling everything.

beautifulrock
07-01-2007, 04:50 AM
And heres how June finished...hopefully It will be enough to crack the top 3 for the site. I got my tracking number for my check for $600 so I should get that soon. Will be posting on further developments...


120.00-->5520.18 -/29
21.00 -->5541.18 -/29
16.38 -->5524.56 -/29
120.00-->5432.06 -/29
25.85 -->5435.91 -/29
180.00-->5483.91 -/29
800.00-->5777.01 -/30

I played every day only failing to cash on the 1st, 14th, 23rd and 28th. The 14th and 28th were especially horrible days in which I blew a total of $800 without cashing once.

I started the month with 2011.72 and finished with 5777.01 with a cashout of $600. A total net gain of 4365.29

beautifulrock
07-01-2007, 04:04 PM
I finished 5th for the month which netted me an extra $380 in tournament credits. I just found bluffmagazine.com has the online statistics for certain sites. I registered and found my stats on bodog. check yours out, mine look like this...



Winnings:...............$17,833.34
Biggest Cash:..........$1,800.00
Average Cash:.........$151.13
Biggest Buyin:.........$100.00
Wins:.....................16...........2.87%
Seconds:................14...........2.51%
Thirds:....................8............1.44%
Top Three Rate:.....................6.82%
Final Tables:............74.........13.29%
Cashes:..................118........21.18%
Average Finish:.....................42/100
Average Field Size:....................225
Total Played:............................557


Longest Non-Cash Streak: 20
Date............Buyin.......Tournament/Event......Place....Entrants...Winnings
7/1/2007.......$20........NL Hold'em+Rebuys......11.........126........$83.28
7/1/2007.......$10...........NL Hold'em..............37.........449........$18.00
6/30/2007......$30.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......5...........99.......$800.00
6/29/2007......$7............NL Hold'em...............5..........322......$180.00
6/29/2007......$10..........PL Hold'em................7..........47.........$25.8 5
6/29/2007......$30..........NL Hold'em...............15.........221......$120.00
6/28/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em...............24.........234........$16.38
6/28/2007......$5........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........23.........216.......$21.00
6/28/2007......$30.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......13.........134......$120.00
6/26/2007......$20..........NL Hold'em................4..........504......$705.60
6/26/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em................3..........150......$178.50
6/26/2007......$50..........NL Hold'em...............18.........207......$132.00
6/25/2007......$10.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......14.........189........$54.00
6/25/2007......$5...........PL Hold'em.................2...........24........$36. 00
6/25/2007......$5...........NL Hold'em.................7...........54........$14. 85
6/24/2007......$20.........NL Hold'em.................31........441........$50.0 0
6/24/2007......$12.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys........11........188........$66.09
6/24/2007......$7...........NL Hold'em.................4...........77........$55. 00
6/24/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em.................2..........36.......$109.0 0
6/24/2007......$20.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........3........117.......$714.00
6/22/2007......$12..........NL Hold'em................11........135........$60.00
6/22/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em.................2.........18.........$71.0 0
6/22/2007......$20.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........5........115.......$400.40
6/21/2007......$5.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........1.........228.......$825.00
6/21/2007......$30..........NL Hold'em................17........234.......$120.00
6/21/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em.................5..........77.........$61. 60
6/21/2007......$5............NL Hold'em................1..........61.........$91.5 0
6/20/2007......$10.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........2........198.......$964.00
6/20/2007......$12.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys........16........147........$60.00
6/20/2007......$20..........NL Hold'em.................3..........72.......$172.8 0
6/19/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em.................5..........90.........$72. 00
6/18/2007......$20.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys........10........113........$72.00
6/17/2007......$50..........NL Hold'em................42........629.......$140.00
6/17/2007......$7............NL Hold'em.................1..........72........$55.0 0
6/17/2007......$100.........NL Hold'em................12........243......$480.00
6/16/2007......$30..........NL Hold'em..................2.........40.......$288.0 0
6/16/2007......$5.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........3.........34.........$56.00
6/16/2007......$20..........NL Hold'em.................17.......117........$72.00
6/15/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em..................4.........69........$69.0 0
6/15/2007......$20.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys..........1.......108.....$1,800.00
6/13/2007......$5.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........5.........40.........$36.00
6/11/2007......$5.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........25.......221.........$21.00
6/10/2007......$20..........NL Hold'em.................33.......387........$40.00
6/10/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em..................1.........40.......$109.0 0
6/10/2007......$5.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........8.........47.........$24.75
6/10/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em..................1.......134.......$402.00
6/10/2007......$20..........NL Hold'em..................4.......104.......$166.00
6/9/2007........$5...........NL Hold'em..................3.......207.......$348.00
6/8/2007........$10..........NL Hold'em.................2.......162........$900.00
6/7/2007........$5...........NL Hold'em.................13.......215........$36.00
6/7/2007........$10..........NL Hold'em.................14......493.........$55.00
6/7/2007........$10..........NL Hold'em.................7........115........$40.00
6/7/2007........$20..........NL Hold'em.................16......126.........$77.00
6/6/2007........$50..........NL Hold'em.................40......612.......$175.00
6/6/2007........$10..........NL Hold'em.................38......429.........$18.00
6/5/2007........$50..........NL Hold'em.................63......684.......$125.00
6/5/2007........$5...........NL Hold'em...................3.......54.........$32.4 0
6/5/2007........$12..........NL Hold'em..................6.......153......$100.00
6/5/2007........$20..........NL Hold'em.................18......120........$72.00
6/4/2007........$10..........NL Hold'em.................12......531........$58.41
6/4/2007........$10.......NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........21......215........$34.09
6/4/2007........$20..........PL Hold'em..................3........45.......$144.00
6/3/2007........$15..........NL Hold'em..................9.......162........$42.50
6/2/2007........$10..........NL Hold'em..................2.......139......$278.00
6/1/2007........$5.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........7.......212.......$105.00
5/31/2007......$15..........NL Hold'em..................1.......149.......$670.50
5/31/2007 .....$5............PL Hold'em..................2........36.........$43.2 0
5/30/2007......$12........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........18.......144.......$60.00
5/30/2007......$10..........NL Hold'em.................16.......459........$50.49
5/29/2007......$10........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........11.......194.......$54.84
5/29/2007......$15..........NL Hold'em..................8.........96........$64.8 0
5/29/2007......$5..........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........1.........24.......$127.50
5/29/2007......$50..........NL Hold'em.................27.......225........$78.75
5/28/2007......$5..........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........16.......250.......$36.00
5/28/2007......$10.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........8........216......$124.54
5/27/2007......$4..........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........1.......175......$109.00
5/26/2007......$5..........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........5.......196......$195.00
5/26/2007......$10...........NL Hold'em.................18......441........$49.50
5/26/2007......$4.............NL Hold'em.................8.......159......$109.00
5/25/2007......$10...........NL Hold'em................42.......486........$20.00
5/25/2007......$2.............NL Hold'em.................2.......108........$99.00
5/25/2007......$12...........NL Hold'em.................5........141......$130.00
5/24/2007......$5.............NL Hold'em.................9.......195........$51.00
5/23/2007......$12.........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......12.......153........$60.00
5/23/2007......$5.............NL Hold'em.................1.........43......$204.00
5/23/2007......$12...........NL Hold'em.................1........155......$600.00
5/22/2007......$10...........NL Hold'em.................26.......216.......$17.50
5/21/2007......$2..........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........2.........90.......$93.20
5/20/2007......$10...........NL Hold'em.................3........207......$240.00
5/19/2007......$10...........NL Hold'em................10.......434........$55.00
5/19/2007......$2..........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.........8.........72.......$15.30
5/19/2007......$7.............NL Hold'em................26.......405.......$21.00
5/18/2007......$4.............NL Hold'em.................1........135.....$140.00
5/18/2007......$20............NL Hold'em................34.......387.......$40.00
5/18/2007......$5...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........2.........16.......$72.00
5/18/2007......$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......16.......169.......$12.00
5/17/2007......$12............NL Hold'em................16.......162.......$24.00
5/17/2007......$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......17.......183.......$12.00
5/17/2007......$10............NL Hold'em................17.......387.......$54.00
5/16/2007......$10............NL Hold'em................18.......486.......$55.00
5/16/2007......$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......14.......171.......$12.00
5/15/2007......$4..............NL Hold'em................1........202.....$202.00
5/15/2007......$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........9........162.......$17.00
5/14/2007......$4..............NL Hold'em................2........119.......$80.00
5/12/2007......$4...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........1........147.....$109.00
5/12/2007......$7..............NL Hold'em...............22.......387.......$21.00
5/10/2007......$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........9.........83.......$16.66
5/10/2007......$1..............NL Hold'em................2........150......$30.00
5/10/2007......$7..............NL Hold'em...............15.......292.......$36.00
5/8/2007........$10............NL Hold'em...............33.......495.......$25.00
5/6/2007........$10............NL Hold'em...............12.......429.......$49.50
5/4/2007........$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........1.......108.....$158.40
5/4/2007........$5.............NL Hold'em.................2.........63.......$63.00
5/2/2007........$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys........1.......160.....$300.00
5/1/2007........$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......10.......186......$12.00
4/30/2007......$2...........NL Hold'em+Rebuys .......17......175.......$12.00
4/29/2007......$2............NL Hold'em+Rebuys.......15......117........$6.81
4/28/2007......$2............NL Hold'em+Rebuys........7........95.......$25.85

Cashes:..........118.......100.00%
Wins:..............16..........13.56%
Seconds:.........14..........11.86%
Thirds:.............8............6.78%
Final Tables:.....65.........55.08%

Longbongcilvaringz
07-03-2007, 01:42 PM
lost another house game of poker tonight... the losing streak continues.

beautifulrock
07-03-2007, 01:55 PM
lost another house game of poker tonight... the losing streak continues.

lets try and turn it around. pm me with your thoughts and problems and I will try to help you.

Longbongcilvaringz
07-03-2007, 02:11 PM
thanks man, but i dunno, i seem to be playing decently and then becoming distracted or just undisiplined for a few hands and fucking up.

for instance tonight, had a large chip lead, and i was conserving well and winning the odd pot adding to my chip stack. then a hand came along that i was liking my cards. i think i had k10, and a 10 A 4 came down on the flop. and i bet representing the ace, taking a risk, still a fairly low bet though and my opponent did an over the top deliberation, which seemed to obvious to warrant any attention. i mention to him that he has a nice ace... thinking that this is what he wants me to think (i probably should keep my mouth shut lol)

next card comes down and it was irrelevant, we both check

and another ace comes out on the river, so i represent the ace again with a decent bet, and my opponent goes all in.

now instead of stopping to think "hm, this guy might have an ace", i did an auto call, and regreted it straight away. he flips his cards over an shows me his ace, killing me with 3 of a kind.

thing was, he knew the entire time that he had me beat, because he was holding the ace. so my attempt to represent it was totally void. i thought i was stringing him along, ignored his signs. i was particularly annoyed with myself at over thinking his deliberation on calling after the flop, i basically just thought that no player would be that blatant.

i go from chip leader, to handing a large chunk to him.


after this i played fairly conservatively, held my chips, doubled up once.

then i got tempted into another hand, similar situation, i cant remember the exact details. and i got destroyed again.


so i dont know where i can specifically improve....

Prolifical ENG
07-03-2007, 04:34 PM
Sean Michael....that other guy played that move alright (although I would have been more wary with a 3 kicker). Sometimes you need to think why some people are willing to hold onto their hands and call you. It is a coincidence that Rock made a post (actually a few of them) about slow playing like this not too far back. It plays very well in the middle of tournaments....here it is:

I just had to post this. This just happened to me in a tournament and is one of my favorite slowplay. I call it the third wheel or hitchhiker slow play.

blinds 15/30

ardyess is in the sb for 15
guilty sham is in the bb for 30

all fold to me and i limp in with 5s 5d in 5th position

ardyess calls

guilty sham checks

flop 10s 9d 5c

ardeyss bets 30 the minimum

guilty sham raises to 90

I flat call

ardyess calls

turn 3c

ardyess checks

guilty sham bets 210

I flat call

ardyess calls

river 9h

ardyess checks

guiltysham checks

i go all in for 710

ardyess folds

guilty sham calls and shows As Th for 2 pair tens and nines with an ace kicker

i have fives full of nines and win a pot of 2440


So what happened?

I limped in middle position because i saw that guiltysham was in the big blind and one of the looser players raising and calling raises a lot. With a hand like pocket fives my hope is to hit a set and have him controlling the action in early position. His check in the big blind surprised me (even much more so later when I found out he actually had a hand) but when the flop came 10 high with a rainbow and I hit the set in position I knew I had struck gold. I remember thinking before the betting began 'how am I gonna extract as many chips....oh wait... a bet!...a raise!!! Now I can re-raise and surely blow the original bettor off the hand, or I can hitchhike in the hand and simply call representing a top pair with an unsure kicker or a draw hand like queen jack. Not only did this plan work as ardyess called but it also induced a second bet on the turn. At this point I could have raised and again blown ardyess off the hand who at this point I put on queen jack or king jack but that three on the turn was a great card for me as I was pretty sure one of the two was drawing dead. ardyess called the 210 bet and I hoped the board paired as the river fell. The actions were a blur. they checked quickly, I went all in quickly, ardyess folded quickly and guilty sham called in a flash. The result of the hand was inevitable as far as sham was concerned but by playing it the way I did, got another 270 chips from ardyess. This is an example of a good time to slowplay and why you should always watch out for that third wheel in the hand who is slow calling everything.

Sometimes you need to be wary of who flopped what. When I flop a straight or a flush I only bet about 40% of the time on the flop...mostly if Im just trying to protect it. Then just call and not bet, raise, or check-raise until the turn or the river. The better and more experienced players are better at detecting what you really have instead of you trying to convince them you hit the turn or river overpair or something and might just fold. But many other players you can trap.

beautifulrock
07-03-2007, 07:43 PM
I don't mind representing top pair when the board is say jack or queen high, but if you do it with an ace on board you are asking for trouble especially if you get a call. His play was the perfect set-up and the river card was a bingo for him as it disguised his hand further along with the check on the turn. These plays are killers as they snowball out of control and eat at your stack. My suggestion is to play less poker all the way and play a more definite style of poker with a big stack, that is place huge bets at shortstacks to try and steal or race and if you must bluff, try it only one barrelled on the flop and give up if called or raised. stab at small plots pre and post flop or go for the double up with big hands but dont get involved too much and watch your river betting. Dont bet mediocre hands for value and try to play "behind" your opponent on the river. This is essential in a tourny. Always try to be the last to act.

beautifulrock
07-03-2007, 07:58 PM
In the back of your mind you should always be thinking that an ace could be in play. It's the #1 card to play and with more and more players it becomes more and more likely that it is being played. The very stupedest thing you can do in the game is to call an all in with a nine when kqjt is on the board. Yet I have seen it. People lie to themselves. And that can be one of the dividing lines between success and failure. Use common sense. Reason out the solution. Make the right decision. And don't let outside influences impede your decision making.

Prolifical ENG
07-03-2007, 08:11 PM
The site that I play at WPX has changed slightly. Instead of 100% rakeback at the end of the week, it is now 75%. That means the limit tables are a little less appealing but still not too bad. Losing with AA still gets reimbursed at $1/2 and up.

5K added tournaments 3 times a week ($10 + 0) is their way of trying to get more traffic in. Usually there is less than 1000 people online at a time. I kinda like the tournament idea better....they were lacking in that department.....without reducing the rakeback to 75% they wouldn't be able to pull it off.

First tourney starts tonight....Im giving it a try since I estimate only 300-350 players will start making the total pot 5000+3000 = 8k

Damn....I wish i could play on bodog :P

Longbongcilvaringz
07-03-2007, 11:20 PM
cheers for the advice guys, all good stuff.

i rarley bluff in general play, as i said though, i seem to lose concentration on some hands when i have a chip lead...consequently finding myself to far into hands.

again, his blatant sign seemed ridiculous to me, and i guess in the end put me off completely.

anyway, im tightening up my play, i just have lapses at times lol.

Longbongcilvaringz
07-09-2007, 01:27 PM
update:

played another house game tonight, its and it felt like one of the best ive played.

i was extremely tight and aggressive and won basically every pot i was involved in during the first 2 hours. i think i played as well as i ever have, maybe adjusting my betting schemes would have lead to larger pay offs, but i was chip leader all game.

until:

3 players left, pre flop all in from short stack with about 1500 in chips, the next player calls, me being in good position and holding JJ i call also.

i lay down my jj

the player who went all in pre flop show 22

and the other player shows kj of suit, or something similar.

basically at this stage im backing myself with the knowledge that i have an upper hand, however the flop comes down, and the third card is a 2.

the next two cards improve neither my hand or my opponents and the player with poker 2's steals the pot.

the game progresses, i regain some chips, and the 3rd player is knocked out.

heads up.

i play tight and aggressive, all in with any pair above 5's and with any k and ace combo. it pays off well, i draw level with my opponent.

then , im big blind, him small. im dealt jj again (an obvious all in with my tactics), and my opponent does the work for me. i call instantly, thinking that jj is a very strong heads up hand.

he lays down Q6 off suit.

basically at this stage i think im going to get some revenge for the early steal when i had pocket jacks.

however, thrid card on the flop is a Q of course, next 2 cards help neither of us and i bow out as i had a slightly smaller chip stack.

in the end, i thought i played well, and i would consider the beats i had as bad ones.

interestingly, when i was beaten with jj while my opponent had 22, he gloated a bit, general bullshit.

i said something like "luck doesnt last", and the jj came up again.... and he got lucky again. oh well.

drops any thoughts on how i could have improved my play on those hands.

beautifulrock
07-09-2007, 02:38 PM
3 players left, pre flop all in from short stack with about 1500 in chips, the next player calls, me being in good position and holding JJ i call also.

i lay down my jj

the player who went all in pre flop show 22

and the other player shows kj of suit, or something similar.

basically at this stage im backing myself with the knowledge that i have an upper hand, however the flop comes down, and the third card is a 2.

the next two cards improve neither my hand or my opponents and the player with poker 2's steals the pot.




I'm trying to grasp this situation, Don't say lay down when you mean show, lay down means fold (gets confusing). Now the guy with deuces goes all in for 1500. The guy with kj flat calls? how much did he have after that? Are their sidepots? With Jacks here you really need to isolate against the all in player by pushing yourself and blowing that kj off the hand. Its bad ettiquette while near the money but at a short table its everybody for themselves.

Heads up you did nothing wrong but get unlucky. you were a 3-1 favorite to win the match. Next time its yours.


oh yeah...this right here----->i was extremely tight and aggressive and won basically every pot i was involved in during the first 2 hours. i think i played as well as i ever have, maybe adjusting my betting schemes would have lead to larger pay offs, but i was chip leader all game.

thats the "zone"---remember it.

Longbongcilvaringz
07-09-2007, 02:48 PM
hm, im trying to remember right now but its alluding me.

edit: ok now i remember, actually 4 players left, the player with dueces was not short stack, he bets the 1500 odd pre flop, the next player folds, then short stack calls all in. hence there was a side pot between me and the guy with 2's and the other player was all in. so we all showed pre flop/.

sorry about my termonology, i basically just play with acquantances and a bit online, so i dont really get into technicalities when it comes to that.

beautifulrock
07-10-2007, 07:00 AM
hm, im trying to remember right now but its alluding me.

edit: ok now i remember, actually 4 players left, the player with dueces was not short stack, he bets the 1500 odd pre flop, the next player folds, then short stack calls all in. hence there was a side pot between me and the guy with 2's and the other player was all in. so we all showed pre flop/.

sorry about my termonology, i basically just play with acquantances and a bit online, so i dont really get into technicalities when it comes to that.

Many times improper termanology can lead to disaater especially when playing in an official live tourny. Case in point a couple of weeks ago on the WPT Kido Pham was in a hand against an all in opponent and made the remarks "Do you want me to call it" and "go ahead you say call or fold" then he made the mistake of saying "fine I'll call it" when he meant to say was I'll make the decision because he had no intention of actually calling with his hand and was putting on a show. But a couple of players caught the slip and the floor was called and it was decided that the "I'll call it" was a verbal declaration and was binding. He consequently lost the hand and many of his chips. So be careful of what and how you say things at the poker table. The term you were looking for there was "showdown" which means to expose all cards in an all in race or on the river when betting is completed. "Laydown" means to fold. So be careful that you don't accidentally muck by saying the wrong thing.

Other fun poker terms...
the turn - some older players like Tj Cloutier and Doyle Brunson refer to the flop as The turn. Back in the day it was strictly turn 4th and 5th street. The terms flop, turn and river came later.

Dead Man's hand - Refers to Ace Eight in hold em. An omage to Wild Bill Hickock who was shot in the back playing poker. His hand? Two par Aces and eights.

Straddle - In cash games a blind bet to the left of the big blind, double the bb which allows the player to act last preflop. Players to the left have the option to re-straddle for double the previous bet before the cards are dealt. Action starts to the left of the last straddler and you can re-straddle your own straddle so you can keep going around so long as you still have chips.

The gay waiter - Q3 - A queen with a tray

backdoored - being beaten by running cards on the turn and river, describes an opponents hand 2 pair or better that sucks out to multiple needed cards.

the computer hand - q7 - The stats for texas hold em were compiled and entered into a computer and spit out and the mean hand in texas hold em is Q7.

counterfeitted - it can happen many ways, the process of cards on the turn and or river somehow making your hand worse or useless. Any hand can be counterfeitted from high card to a low end straight flush that gets counterfeitted by the board (It happens, happened to me) This is easily one of the most irritating parts of the game, and one of the best exploited,

Show one show all. - A second definition was officially added this year.

1. If a player in a cash game or tournament shows one player his cards after a hand and mucks, those cards may be requested by a player or dealer to be exposed for all to see.

2. If a player exposes one of his cards after the completion of a hand and then mucks, he is REQUIRED to expose the remaining card even if no request is made.

Board Talking - bad ettiquette. The practice of pointing out things on the board when in a hand with 3 or more players or even worse when are the dealer or are not in the hand at all. Things like oooooh look at all those spades or damn why did I fold I woulda had quads? are examples of board talk and are horrible poker ettiquette. When you fold don't make gestures or statements alluding to the strength of your hand and in general save your comments for the completion of the hand. Never coerce your fellow players into decisions when out of a hand, in fact when out of a hand you really shouldn't say anything at all, but rather gather information on the action around you.

Prolifical ENG
07-11-2007, 07:24 PM
Well I learned my lesson once again of playing on tables too heavy for my bankroll. In less than an hour I lost two 11 to 1 rivers and one 7 to 1 river with the biggest pots to cost me half of my bankroll. Yesterday I couldn't even break even with the deck for a few hands on any kind of table. Total hands won after 500 hands was around 5%.

I always know that you shouldn't buy in with more that 10% of your total bankroll. Usually tourney buy-ins are less than 5%. Oh well...I guess yesterday I was in a gambling mood to buy-in that heavy then I was feeling instead of playing right there right then.

Usually mind state is the strongest part of my game and it fell.

So I guess next post in this thread I will go over the mindstate in poker.

beautifulrock
07-11-2007, 07:43 PM
great idea! I will be reading!

Prolifical ENG
07-11-2007, 08:10 PM
Mindset in poker

When you get beat on a bad river sometimes peoples thinking is then colored by mood and then a pivotal point is reached and if you don't get your mind together, your whole session could fall off like a hub cap. When you start dwelling on tough 4th and 5th street losses whether it was your mistake or if you played it good, your concentration is broken and so will your stack.

Suppose after a loss you get pocket aces and they don't hold up, then pocket kings after that and they don't hold up either! Other players decisions and whims of luck brings a short term setback. If you don't get yourself through it you will stop playing and thinking why the universe is so unfair.

Then the negative vortex comes in....you get bad outcomes -> you get in a bad mood -> mood affects your play -> you make poor decisions

A good poker player can play through those setbacks. In my situation the extra factor was when I played with a large portion of my bankroll. One big hand loss takes you back a long way and is enough to get you feeling...and it did happen more than once. I did feel I was hazy in my decision making. It wasn't so much that I wanted to get my money back at least to even but I knew I could beat those other players. But after a while I had to only think about what I play and not my opponents. One strategy is to tighten up more...but even then I was getting playable hands in position and of course you want to change your table image fast. Of course they are going to give you action no matter what.

The best decision is to avoid bad neighborhoods. Those other players likely knew I was feeling, waiting to pin another one on me. I am usually the one who preys on those people knowing how the setback phases work.

In short, always focus on how you do right then and not how you feel.

beautifulrock
07-11-2007, 08:42 PM
great great post a fascinating read...

There are some pros (Cyndy Violette, Daniel Negreanu, Jennifer Harman and others) who believe that not only mood, but simply "feeling good" can drastically affect your game and the outcome of a session. They believe that positive energy not only breeds good play but good cards, and eating healthy and sleeping well, as well as other mood factors (positive environment/people) contribute to the success of a session. I for one have won tournaments under the most adverse of circumstances, sickness, bad mood, drunk, and seem to thrive under such circumstances. When I'm hungry for a win, I lose, when I just take it easy and flow into the zone starting with realistic goals in mind, I win. I think all in all its all a matter of when and how you are most comfortable that contributes to your success and failure at a poker table.

Prolifical ENG
07-11-2007, 09:01 PM
good add Rock...that is another technique to get over the mishaps. P.R.O. (positive reinforcement override)

Suga Duga
07-12-2007, 05:43 PM
Two “techniques” I use to stay focused and trying to resist a bad mood is following:

I loose, cause it’s my fault:
I played poorly, executed bad in critical situations or just couldn’t read my opponent or the board - couldn't lay down 3 kings while faced with 4 diamonds on the board and strong bets by my opponent...

Reaction:
I think about different solutions next time facing this situation and try to summarize my faults and analyze them, faults are the best things to learn of (also in poker)


I loose, cause I got outplayed:
He got me, slowplayed all the way, he just showed me a different level of bluffing, or in other words: he was better in this situation than me...

Reaction:
In this case I do following: I congratulate my opponent. I need to overcome my ego to do that and with that being made, I feel better because I was able to do that - I put myself in a good mood, despite I just got beat ...afterwards I take that fresh energy I used to congratulate my opponent and keep playing with that energy...

Jizzoex
07-13-2007, 03:38 AM
Rock you mention attitude and feeling good.. I was at the card club last weekend, and a guy was at the table being OVERLY happy. Loud clapping once in a while trying to will himself good cards. He lost everything. I think its possible to be overly happy. I usually try to stay positive at the table and it works sometimes, but it seems that many overdo it.

Jizzoex
07-13-2007, 03:49 AM
I see that a lot of people on here find themselves calling even when they know that they are beat. I am not the greatest player, but everytime I lose I know that i just beat myself. Sure I am beat by the board on a few hands, but I am my own worst enemy. No matter how many times I do this and vow not to anymore, it doesn't change, I am thinking of taking a bit of a break from poker.

beautifulrock
07-13-2007, 10:21 AM
Rock you mention attitude and feeling good.. I was at the card club last weekend, and a guy was at the table being OVERLY happy. Loud clapping once in a while trying to will himself good cards. He lost everything. I think its possible to be overly happy. I usually try to stay positive at the table and it works sometimes, but it seems that many overdo it.

Yea thats the fake positive attitude, the poker gods see right thru that!

I see that a lot of people on here find themselves calling even when they know that they are beat. I am not the greatest player, but everytime I lose I know that i just beat myself. Sure I am beat by the board on a few hands, but I am my own worst enemy. No matter how many times I do this and vow not to anymore, it doesn't change, I am thinking of taking a bit of a break from poker.

The very hardest thing to do in poker is to fold a good hand when you know your beat, unfortunately the way to get over this problem is extremely difficult. Let me explain....

Humans are embedded with two natural instincts, To create, to destroy. Some are more in tune with one or the other and this can greatly affect the way one plays. I myself by nature am self destructive (sado-massochists) and generally uncaring when it comes to money. I brush off failure and move on. I'm not worried about being wrong or looking stupid. This has a twofold effect. 1. I can get away from a good hand when my instincts tell me I'm beat. 2. I can call a big bet with almost no hand at all when my instincts tell me my opponent is weak. It also has a third negative effect 3. The Blow up, which is complete entropy. Those who are into creating, (the perfectionists) must be right all the time and therefore will consider the chance they could win rather than the likelihood that they are beat or they are so afraid to lose they won't call anything. Instinct fails because it is not allowed to work. In order to become a better more complete player, you must become detatched from the game and detatched from caring. Forget about the money and remember the essence of the game, which is to decieve and dillude. Don't let monetary aspects affect your play, and most importantly, don't lie to yourself.

One of the hardest things to do in this life is not care about money. But to become a successful poker player you must not let the cash distract you. That's why we take chips and not large bundes of cash to the table.

Prolifical ENG
07-13-2007, 04:36 PM
I see that a lot of people on here find themselves calling even when they know that they are beat. I am not the greatest player, but everytime I lose I know that i just beat myself. Sure I am beat by the board on a few hands, but I am my own worst enemy. No matter how many times I do this and vow not to anymore, it doesn't change, I am thinking of taking a bit of a break from poker.

I think me and/or Rock covered this earlier on in this thread. Basically knowing when you're beat while holding good cards and folding them separates the very good players to the decent ones. Also, you don't have to let the world know you folded a flush, pocket kings, etc. which a lot of people do like they need to prove something.

People do cheat themselves all the time. All the time people will raise pre flop with KK and 4 people are still in the pot and the ace hits the flop and its like they don't even see the ace. Chances are one of those players has an ace.

Occasionally you might want to show a good hand you folded if you don't want extra action in the next few hours giving the hint you were betting with a good hand like always but usually you might want more action if you are playing tight for the most part. But on the other hand why do you care what other people think of you? You want their money.

The only exception is in limit holdem. Sometimes if the pot is already big and there is one bet to call the river, and you know how many outs can beat your hand, it is worth the extra bet to see what the player has.

Other than that you should really be paying attention from the beginning to know what the player's hand is so you know when you are beaten at the end. While you are playing poker, you should be playing another little game where you guess what the players have based on their position, betting and past hands.

Prolifical ENG
07-19-2007, 09:15 PM
Well we got another example triumph with the smooth call today.

I was in a $5 SNG with 5 people left and I just happen to call the blind with Q6 unsuited.

The flop comes with 2 sixes. I check the other guy raises like 200....I call. Turn comes and its the other six to give me quads...I check the other guy bets I call again. River card comes and he goes all in. At this point I thought he probably made the boat. Nevertheless I type in "gg" before I called all his chips and he flips over JT....he had nothing! not even an ace...lol.

Well I did go on to win this small tourney from the sudden chip advantage.

The problem with quads is sometimes it is hard to get much out of it....especially when its only 2-3 people in the pot.

beautifulrock
07-20-2007, 02:29 AM
for a synopsis of the 2007 WSOP final table go here first place took just over 8 million, 4 mil less than last year.http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/article/9305

Prolifical ENG
07-23-2007, 02:18 PM
Checkraising

Well we discussed smooth calling a few times already, my favourite move in the game is the checkraise....my weakness may be I use it a tad too often than I should....but nevertheless I have profited with it in the long run.

I might as well make a little note about it. The obvious situation is when you know you are winning and trap the other player when you know he is going to bet to force you to fold. Of course you can bluff with it....I only bluff with it about 20-25% of the time. Usually if its a small checkraise they will call you and 90% of the time you will win the showdown. The most important part of the checkraise is knowing exactly how much you want to depending on many factors if you want him to call you and what the possible outs are etc.

But if you win many times with a checkraise, it may help you on future hands when you need a free card.

Being known as a checkraiser even on the flop....you can make a "thoughtful check" and they will anticipate a checkraise and hence will check in fear of a checkraise for the turn or river card when you are looking for a flush or straight draw.

beautifulrock
07-23-2007, 02:21 PM
Checkraising
Being known as a checkraiser even on the flop....you can make a "thoughtful check" and they will anticipate a checkraise and hence will check in fear of a checkraise for the turn or river card when you are looking for a flush or straight draw.

You just described me!

Longbongcilvaringz
07-23-2007, 02:45 PM
house game tonight most probably, i will report back with all the gory details.

Prolifical ENG
07-23-2007, 03:50 PM
Mention the funniest online poker nicknames you seen/commonly play against:

- Bambaclat (used with the image of a black man with an afro character on full tilt poker....is rumored to be disguised as a pro)

others

nodumbnumbers
payatthiswindow
ill_bust_ur_nuts
i nut off of nuts
the_donk
permatilt

oh yeah...someone was playing big with the name Dirt_Mcgirt on pokerstars with the pic of ODB from the foodstamp ID card for their pic.

Jizzoex
07-24-2007, 03:24 AM
I went to Vegas last week. Lost money. Played in a tournament at Planet Hollywood for $60. There were 61 entrants. They payed 6 and I took 10th so that really sucked. I saw Scotty Nguyen and Layne Flack at Bellagio and took a pic with them.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/Jizzoex/poker.jpg

That's my girl, me, Scotty, Layne, and my girl's bro.

beautifulrock
07-24-2007, 04:27 AM
Mention the funniest online poker nicknames you seen/commonly play against:

- Bambaclat (used with the image of a black man with an afro character on full tilt poker....is rumored to be disguised as a pro)

others

nodumbnumbers
payatthiswindow
ill_bust_ur_nuts
i nut off of nuts
the_donk
permatilt

oh yeah...someone was playing big with the name Dirt_Mcgirt on pokerstars with the pic of ODB from the foodstamp ID card for their pic.

saw a couple of heads with the same wu symbol and the names lefthookjab and MEzY100 I'll post some funny ones later...

I went to Vegas last week. Lost money. Played in a tournament at Planet Hollywood for $60. There were 61 entrants. They payed 6 and I took 10th so that really sucked. I saw Scotty Nguyen and Layne Flack at Bellagio and took a pic with them.


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/Jizzoex/poker.jpg

That's my girl, me, Scotty, Layne, and my girl's bro.

Scotty Nguyen Baby!!!!!!!!!

Longbongcilvaringz
07-28-2007, 03:30 PM
house game happened, and in short i got beaten in a situation which probability wise was more likely to go my way...in heads up. but i guess that the way it goes.

i got rags for a long period of time, and i decided to just play tight, knowing that there were at least 2 very loose players at the table who i could milk when i got dealt a decent pre flop hand. won two hands of significant worth, and was second in chip standings.

it got down to 3 players left, and eventually i knocked out one of the other guys.

in heads up, i was against a notoriously aggressive and loose player, when usually i come up against the tighter players.

he immediately started pushing all in pre flop, which was fine with me because i was confident he would do this regardless of his pre flop cards.

so i waited a few hands till i got something decent (from memory AK not suited) and called his 3rd consecutive all in.

he turned over A5, which was good.

flop came down, and i hit my k while he hit the 5. didnt worry me particularly, as the straight and flush wasnt helped on his side.

the turn helped neither.

by this stage i was just praying that he didnt hit the 5 on the river (earlier on he had hit a pair on the river to steal a decent amount of my chips)

and of course it came up.

i had marginally less chips than him so it was lights out for me.


ive made it to heads up in the last 3 games, and in the last 2 been beaten on the river. which makes me feel slightly irritated, but it does give me confidence that ive been able to consistantly push all in/call all in when i have a stronger hand.

for the moment though, it is proving annoying not having won either of these games.

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 03:42 PM
house game happened, and in short i got beaten in a situation which probability wise was more likely to go my way...in heads up. but i guess that the way it goes.

i got rags for a long period of time, and i decided to just play tight, knowing that there were at least 2 very loose players at the table who i could milk when i got dealt a decent pre flop hand. won two hands of significant worth, and was second in chip standings.

it got down to 3 players left, and eventually i knocked out one of the other guys.

in heads up, i was against a notoriously aggressive and loose player, when usually i come up against the tighter players.

he immediately started pushing all in pre flop, which was fine with me because i was confident he would do this regardless of his pre flop cards.

so i waited a few hands till i got something decent (from memory AK not suited) and called his 3rd consecutive all in.

he turned over A5, which was good.

flop came down, and i hit my k while he hit the 5. didnt worry me particularly, as the straight and flush wasnt helped on his side.

the turn helped neither.

by this stage i was just praying that he didnt hit the 5 on the river (earlier on he had hit a pair on the river to steal a decent amount of my chips)

and of course it came up.

i had marginally less chips than him so it was lights out for me.


ive made it to heads up in the last 3 games, and in the last 2 been beaten on the river. which makes me feel slightly irritated, but it does give me confidence that ive been able to consistantly push all in/call all in when i have a stronger hand.

for the moment though, it is proving annoying not having won either of these games.

Take solace in the fact that it was luck that beat you and not your opponents or yourself. Clearly you are a good player if you make heads up the last 3 times. The luck factor just has to fall your way.

Longbongcilvaringz
07-28-2007, 04:03 PM
yes, this particular player is one of the most annoying ive ever played with, but i try to stay stoney faced.

during the game he was constantly saying that i was bleeding chips, because i kept on folding hands pre flop. a good player would have seen that i was playing tightly, but instead he called me all in (he had a bigger chip stack at the time) when i held KK and he had rags.

in fact, this certain player has financed many of my wins in the past because at a time i had a reputation for bluffing, and it has somehow stuck in his head.

i realise that playing tight will only work in certain situations, and im trying to improve my "trickyness", but coming so close to winning and then being beaten has put a dampener on my endeavour to play more adventurously.

slow playing is my main tactic if i decide to not play aggressively when i hold a hand, depending on my position and opponents.

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 04:08 PM
yes, this particular player is one of the most annoying ive ever played with, but i try to stay stoney faced.

during the game he was constantly saying that i was bleeding chips, because i kept on folding hands pre flop. a good player would have seen that i was playing tightly, but instead he called me all in (he had a bigger chip stack at the time) when i held KK and he had rags.

in fact, this certain player has financed many of my wins in the past because at a time i had a reputation for bluffing, and it has somehow stuck in his head.

i realise that playing tight will only work in certain situations, and im trying to improve my "trickyness", but coming so close to winning and then being beaten has put a dampener on my endeavour to play more adventurously.

slow playing is my main tactic if i decide to not play aggressively when i hold a hand, depending on my position and opponents.

I got an idea. Keep punishing the way you have been, firing only with good hands until he learns to fold. When he finally starts folding, show him a monster bluff. He will go so crazy he won't be able to even think about the cards and you will bleed HIM dry.

Longbongcilvaringz
07-28-2007, 04:19 PM
ha, yep thats a good idea, hes the kind of guy who also likes to think out loud, not a good attribute at the poker table imo (for him anyway).

and last game, he kept on telling people to hurry up etc, and was getting really frustrated...naturally i took as much time as i could on every hand following.

what are your opinions about going all in pre flop with pockets (either calling or pushing). this happens a few times last game, where a player pushed all in with say pocket 10's and was beaten. i'd always been of the opinion that it was a good move with only a few players left, but was weaker with 5 or 6 at the table. in heads up ive started playing very aggresively with almost any pocket (usually above 5's). would this tactic be profitable with only 3 players left at the table.

this is an aspect i feel i need to work on, getting a decent chip stack before heads up so i can control the game and allow room for a "lucky win" from the other player.

however im not sure whether to adopt tactic similar to heads up, or play in a similar fashion as the rest of my game...

any help would be much appreciated.

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 04:29 PM
ha, yep thats a good idea, hes the kind of guy who also likes to think out loud, not a good attribute at the poker table imo (for him anyway).

and last game, he kept on telling people to hurry up etc, and was getting really frustrated...naturally i took as much time as i could on every hand following.

what are your opinions about going all in pre flop with pockets (either calling or pushing). this happens a few times last game, where a player pushed all in with say pocket 10's and was beaten. i'd always been of the opinion that it was a good move with only a few players left, but was weaker with 5 or 6 at the table. in heads up ive started playing very aggresively with almost any pocket (usually above 5's). would this tactic be profitable with only 3 players left at the table.

this is an aspect i feel i need to work on, getting a decent chip stack before heads up so i can control the game and allow room for a "lucky win" from the other player.

however im not sure whether to adopt tactic similar to heads up, or play in a similar fashion as the rest of my game...

any help would be much appreciated.

If you are five-handed or less you can comfortably go all in with tens or better as the odds are less that one percent someone will have a higher pair. Using this move is predicated on situation tho. Remember, as players fall, you wanna get that much more aggressive. Actually if you make a list of playable hands, and expand that list as the table gets shorter, and follow that list as a guideline toward playing the hands, the game pretty much plays itself, that is the cards tell you what to do.

Longbongcilvaringz
07-28-2007, 04:32 PM
ok, cheers.

yeah thats what i was thinking, next time i need to be more agressive when it comes to having 3 players left. because my main opponent was and as a result he went into heads up with a chip lead.

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 04:38 PM
The % of chips you have heads up is essentially the % you are to win the match so that chip lead is very important. Plus with more chips you have more options and flexibility.

Prolifical ENG
07-28-2007, 04:38 PM
For a tight player, thats the most crucial part of a tournament is when to start doubling up faster so you have the chips. There are a few times when I play extremely aggressive when there are 2 tables left when there is a large imbalance of chips and Im on the smaller table. I would rather get beaten with 2 tables left than going on the final table with one of the shorter stacks.

I start attacking just before the money...that is if 20 places pay start attacking when there are 23 people left when others tighten up. I don't care for 16th place within the money....aim for a top 3 finish.

You also need to determine who is desperate for chips...when someone only has 7X the BB left and act after you...play a game to predict when they will go all-in so you know when to capitalize and when not to try and limp into pots. You also need to figure if it will be just you and the short stack in the pot, etc.

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 04:40 PM
^^^^Anticipating when a short stack is likely to go all in can save you a bundle...

Longbongcilvaringz
07-28-2007, 04:51 PM
truth, all good tips.

thanks guys, im pretty sure i will be playing on the weekend, hopefully i can implement some of the advice.

cheers.

baby jesus
07-28-2007, 08:10 PM
Is It Just Me Or Is Poker A Lot Like Baseball Very Streaky? I Won Or Came In Second In My Weekly Poker Game Like 7 Weeks In A Row I've Since Havent Come Close Like The Last 3 Or 4 Times. Sometimes I Feel Like I'm Making All The Right Plays And Decisions. And Then Boom The Next Week I'll Feel Way Off And Do Everything Wrong Like Mentally It Just Wont Click For Me That Day.

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 08:18 PM
The streaks can absolutely kill you, like bodog is with me right now.

Prolifical ENG
07-28-2007, 09:10 PM
Sometimes you catch cards more often than others. When I'm playing over 100 hands and my win % is less than 10%, then it is a short term setback and I slow down my playtime. Especially when you are like 0 for 4 in major pots where you have the odds and your cards don't hold up....thats when you start blowing your stack. I also count how many top 10 hands I get per couple hundred hands...sometimes I will get only 9-9 once for the best and it won't even hold.

If you are a good player you can play through those setbacks and not lose that much. Like a few pages back I posted how its important not to start feeling your hands when you start losing 11 to 1 rivers and start playing hands you don't usually play. Thats when you start losing the most.

mic-cord-strangler
07-28-2007, 10:04 PM
Boom! 5th place out of 2338 entrants in the $3 rebuy from 2 days ago... on Pokerstars.. suh-weet!!!! that was just what the doctor ordered...


http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/1605/tourneybh4.jpg

beautifulrock
07-28-2007, 10:30 PM
saaaaweeet!