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LHX
05-15-2006, 10:57 PM
the same way anti-biotics are becoming useless against viruses

we will soon be immune to any form of punishment that can be dished out to try and keep us in line

we will learn to thrive in jail

we will learn to thrive in the slums




that dont mean it will be enjoyable
but
it has been pre-determined

and it is clear there is no holding us back

denaturat
05-15-2006, 11:16 PM
Prisons are thought to be an easy "solution" to a complex problem. For the most part, they don't work. They don't rehabilitate. Instead they are crime universities.

Professor Poopsnagle
05-16-2006, 02:38 AM
the same way anti-biotics are becoming useless against viruses

we will soon be immune to any form of punishment that can be dished out to try and keep us in line

we will learn to thrive in jail

we will learn to thrive in the slums




that dont mean it will be enjoyable
but
it has been pre-determined

and it is clear there is no holding us back

what makes you think that? name one similar progress.

TeknicelStylez
05-16-2006, 03:12 AM
How many people in KTL have actually seen the inner workings of jail/prison?

Visionz
05-16-2006, 03:27 AM
I've spent a couple of nights in jail but that isn't anywhere close to prison. I've known people who have done real time for the better portion of my life. It's makes you a better chess player at the least.

damaja
05-16-2006, 05:04 AM
I almost went to prison, like real prison, for years, but I was lucky enough to escape that horror. But guaranteed I would have come out 100 times more likely to become a lifetime criminal after that. Taking away my chance of a real career, and sticking me in the can for 5+ years with real criminals would have not rehabilitated me at all.

Prison is a reaction to a problem, and not a solution. You'll never stop crime by locking people up. People will go to prison, associate with other criminals and come out with more knowledge than when they went in. Will the years they did inside deter them from crime? Bollocks.

LHX
05-16-2006, 07:57 AM
what makes you think that? name one similar progress.

it happens whenever anything tries to control the movement of something that is alive

LHX
05-16-2006, 07:58 AM
Prisons are thought to be an easy "solution" to a complex problem. For the most part, they don't work. They don't rehabilitate. Instead they are crime universities.

rehabilitation

lmao

LHX
05-16-2006, 08:05 AM
im not wondering if jail 'works'

jail is a place they put people who do not stay in line or provide a reasonable threat to the system


the system needs to change
and
if you are the type of person who acknowledges this and points it out
then
you probably belong in jail - according to the current system


im just sayin that we will soon be immune to it
and will have the ability to thrive even while incarcerated



you dont even need to be a 'criminal' to go to jail anymore

everybody knows that you can get killed at any moment
but
you need to recognize that you can also get tossed in jail for no apparent reason


whats your alibi?
where were you that night?
prove it?

thats where we live right now


and the longer a person fails to recognize this
the better your chances are that its gon happen to you




for the record

damaja
05-16-2006, 12:26 PM
Well, if your idea of thriving is having some power in a poxy prison, then I think you are mistaken. Beyond those walls you are nothing, so what if you can rule by fear and violence inside?

Professor Poopsnagle
05-16-2006, 12:29 PM
it happens whenever anything tries to control the movement of something that is alive

yeah but it takes looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

Professor Poopsnagle
05-16-2006, 12:34 PM
im not wondering if jail 'works'

jail is a place they put people who do not stay in line or provide a reasonable threat to the system


the system needs to change
and
if you are the type of person who acknowledges this and points it out
then
you probably belong in jail - according to the current system


im just sayin that we will soon be immune to it
and will have the ability to thrive even while incarcerated



you dont even need to be a 'criminal' to go to jail anymore

everybody knows that you can get killed at any moment
but
you need to recognize that you can also get tossed in jail for no apparent reason


whats your alibi?
where were you that night?
prove it?

thats where we live right now


and the longer a person fails to recognize this
the better your chances are that its gon happen to you




for the record

why arenīt you direct with your words? come on, doesnt sound as if you started this thread because you want ppl seriously discussing it.

do you know the stanford experiment? very interesting...

http://www.prisonexp.org/

denaturat
05-16-2006, 12:35 PM
im not wondering if jail 'works'

jail is a place they put people who do not stay in line or provide a reasonable threat to the system


the system needs to change
and
if you are the type of person who acknowledges this and points it out
then
you probably belong in jail - according to the current system


im just sayin that we will soon be immune to it
and will have the ability to thrive even while incarcerated



you dont even need to be a 'criminal' to go to jail anymore

everybody knows that you can get killed at any moment
but
you need to recognize that you can also get tossed in jail for no apparent reason


whats your alibi?
where were you that night?
prove it?

thats where we live right now


and the longer a person fails to recognize this
the better your chances are that its gon happen to you




for the record

issues of racism aside, I think you politicise prisons too much. what do you mean by people who are a threat to the system? revolutionaries? do you think people who commit crimes are revolutionaries? (at least that's what I see you implying) are bikers, gang bangers, mobster, dealers, pimps, etc. in your opinion "fighting" the system in the same was that activists such as Trotsky, Che or Dr. Martin Luther King? --I don't think prisons are there to suppress any kind of valid political dissent. Instead, I think that in many cases they are just fundamentally poor "solutions."

Alesco
05-16-2006, 12:53 PM
im not wondering if jail 'works'

jail is a place they put people who do not stay in line or provide a reasonable threat to the system


the system needs to change
and
if you are the type of person who acknowledges this and points it out
then
you probably belong in jail - according to the current system


im just sayin that we will soon be immune to it
and will have the ability to thrive even while incarcerated



you dont even need to be a 'criminal' to go to jail anymore

everybody knows that you can get killed at any moment
but
you need to recognize that you can also get tossed in jail for no apparent reason


whats your alibi?
where were you that night?
prove it?

thats where we live right now


and the longer a person fails to recognize this
the better your chances are that its gon happen to you




for the record Am jus curious, Have you ever been inside? And yes unfortuanatly i have.. :yessad:

LHX
05-16-2006, 01:05 PM
Well, if your idea of thriving is having some power in a poxy prison, then I think you are mistaken. Beyond those walls you are nothing, so what if you can rule by fear and violence inside?

i said nothing about having power in prison

LHX
05-16-2006, 01:05 PM
yeah but it takes looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong.

true

time is a mindfuck

LHX
05-16-2006, 01:07 PM
why arenīt you direct with your words? come on, doesnt sound as if you started this thread because you want ppl seriously discussing it.

do you know the stanford experiment? very interesting...

http://www.prisonexp.org/

how much more direct can i be?

this system kills or imprisons anything that goes against it
this system is bad
eventually people will become immune to the threat of being imprisoned or killed

what is indirect about this?

nowhere did i say prison is a good place

LHX
05-16-2006, 01:14 PM
issues of racism aside, I think you politicise prisons too much. what do you mean by people who are a threat to the system? revolutionaries? do you think people who commit crimes are revolutionaries? (at least that's what I see you implying) are bikers, gang bangers, mobster, dealers, pimps, etc. in your opinion "fighting" the system in the same was that activists such as Trotsky, Che or Dr. Martin Luther King? --I don't think prisons are there to suppress any kind of valid political dissent. Instead, I think that in many cases they are just fundamentally poor "solutions."

i agree prisons are poor solutions

my motive behind this thread was to establish the fact that anybody who wants to see a change take place should understand that this system will try and imprison you if you try to change it


lmao @ 'people who commit crimes are revolutionaries'
where do you come up with this stuff?

i dont know how you got that from what i typed

dont you think the system would have loved to put trotsky
che
and martin
in jail?



what does it mean to 'politicise prison too much'?

LHX
05-16-2006, 01:15 PM
Am jus curious, Have you ever been inside?
no

denaturat
05-16-2006, 01:29 PM
i agree prisons are poor solutions

my motive behind this thread was to establish the fact that anybody who wants to see a change take place should understand that this system will try and imprison you if you try to change it


lmao @ 'people who commit crimes are revolutionaries'
where do you come up with this stuff?

i dont know how you got that from what i typed

dont you think the system would have loved to put trotsky
che
and martin
in jail?



what does it mean to 'politicise prison too much'?

I just assumed this because of what you said about prisons keeping us in line. I have heard such arguments that claimed prisoners where just revolutionaries fighting an unjust system. I thought that is what were implying as well. hence the pimps vs. che argument. lol..misunderstanding I guess.

LHX
05-16-2006, 01:33 PM
prison is worse than death

and im sayin that even the threat of prison cant stop the change thats comin

Professor Poopsnagle
05-16-2006, 06:41 PM
did you read the stanford experiment? i never thought that alone the prison itself and the uniforms change ppl.

prison is a poor kind of punishment? do you have a better idea? there were times when ppl got killed(yeah, usa) or tormented for their crimes. ok, donīt be sarcastic, i know this is still happening but we donīt live in the middle ages.

i always thought that prison was the best solution. only god can judge ppl but we the humanst must kinda oppress rules on ourselves.

iīm still thinking about it.......my girlfriend is reading a book about punishment and prisons by foucault. very interesting. ppl really thought about prisons. how to construct them. how to teach(!) the inmates about the rules and what they did wrong.

denaturat
05-16-2006, 07:04 PM
did you read the stanford experiment? i never thought that alone the prison itself and the uniforms change ppl.

prison is a poor kind of punishment? do you have a better idea? there were times when ppl got killed(yeah, usa) or tormented for their crimes. ok, donīt be sarcastic, i know this is still happening but we donīt live in the middle ages.

i always thought that prison was the best solution. only god can judge ppl but we the humanst must kinda oppress rules on ourselves.

iīm still thinking about it.......my girlfriend is reading a book about punishment and prisons by foucault. very interesting. ppl really thought about prisons. how to construct them. how to teach(!) the inmates about the rules and what they did wrong.

studies show that prisons do not work well. punishment is not the only option and not always the best option. it has a brutalising effect on the subjects. if you take a person off the street who has sold some dope, and you put him in prison with 5000 other criminals, what do you think is going to happen? he will get out of jail a better criminal. and do you think a couple of years locked in prison with those 5000 criminals will allow him to integrate back into normal society? ....answer is obvious. it's a vicious cycle. now wonder they make all kinds of revolving door analogies about prisons. If your ultimate goal is to reduce crime, this sort of method won't work.

besides, i don't believe in just locking away people who are a problem. people turn to crime for various reasons. often as a result of poverty. but not absolute poverty, but poverty in relation to their SUV driving condo living neighbours. some people have emotional problems, coming from disfunctional and violent homes. they learned about violence at an early age. others still are outright mentally ill or have a very low IQ.

and guess what? most of these people come from the poorest elements of our society. want to fight crime? fight poverty first. create equal acess to opportunity. a kid whose dad is crackhead and mom is on welfare cannot compete with a middle class private school kid with good role model professional parents for admission to univeristy. the former being aware of this, does not want to resign to a life of an underpaid assembly line worker. He sees glamour on TV, 50 cent, hot women, flashy shit....gotta get me some of that. he gets creative.

people who think prisons are the solution do want to think harder

Professor Poopsnagle
05-16-2006, 07:49 PM
ok, thanks denaturat. true words.

denaturat
05-16-2006, 07:56 PM
ok, thanks denaturat. true words.

shit, sorry didn't mean to ramble on so much. peace.

arto
05-17-2006, 08:52 AM
i disagree with LHX - people will always flinch at pain, be that mental or physical. sure, if they're political prisoners, they may feel like they went into prison for a just cause, they may feel righteous, but they are still incarcerated, and that is a pain i can only imagine, but it is also a pain that i don't want. that's why i don't break the law.

LHX
05-17-2006, 10:11 AM
i disagree with LHX - people will always flinch at pain, be that mental or physical. sure, if they're political prisoners, they may feel like they went into prison for a just cause, they may feel righteous, but they are still incarcerated, and that is a pain i can only imagine, but it is also a pain that i don't want. that's why i don't break the law.

if you slap yourself in the face enough times
eventually your cheek will become numb to the pain


think about heroin junkies
think about ritual ceremonies walking on hot coals


its not a matter of feeling righteous
its a matter of doing what needs to be done



do anybody feel righteous when they are taking a shit?

V4D3R
05-17-2006, 11:36 AM
I hates the jail. Been there 8 years. It broke me down. But I survived. Found the creator, learned the basics of my quest to seek knowledge. Read alot - found freedom in books. Sadness is overwhelming in there if you are used to being around loved ones. But if you go in there with a strong frame of mind, not some hopeless lost individual, then your chances at not thinking about where you are increase. It get's tough though. The mental strain , daily stress caused by other individuals are beyond your control. Trouble does eventually find you inside. The key is how you deal with it.

Me personally- I let it be known I'm nobody to be fucked with or else pain will result from the attempt to give me pain.

A funny thing about jail too is this. On the day after when Oz or some prison movie was on TV - how the whole prison's attitude gets more tense and alot of role-players come out of the wood-works.

Kinda pathetic - but in my opinion LHX- prison is a place for dead-beats, failures in life, and exploiters of the weak. Some in there are good people - some of those good people are easily influenced to become "bad" people. Just like the goverment has propoganda - inside those walls - there is no policing of the Prison idealisms except from Convict-Cops. You feel what I'm saying LHX - there is no escaping the the policing of what you have to be like or act like in there. In the end - it's all on the individual's state of mind.

How long can one stay solid to the cause when in reality - the thought of prison causes more fear then resolve to the weak minded's state of mind.
You have alot of politics to deal with in Prison - you can't whitsle, you can't look into another convicts house without there being repercusions if you dont know the person well enough, that can get u killed.

If they get us in the camps - then we got to contend with Jail-house meantality and politics - fight that front as well as the other front of this battle. I see 3 fronts from inside jail in this battle. The battle with self, the battle with the shitstems(systems) ideals, the battle with the Jail-house politics v.s. personal morals and beliefs and the "Cause's" mission statement.

LHX
05-17-2006, 12:15 PM
peace V4D3R

would you say that outside jail is becoming more similar to inside jail?

V4D3R
05-17-2006, 12:38 PM
peace V4D3R

would you say that outside jail is becoming more similar to inside jail?

Schools are now built based upon prison architecture models if you look close enough. If anything has been in revolution - it's the institution system. Never mind the technological revolution, the institution has been made to be apart of everybodies everyday life without anybody really realising it. Look at the colors in some schools - if you see baby blue or light green colors on the walls- those are colors that do something to the mind to bring your moral down. Little things like that have pshycological effects on the mind over periods of time. I see the shitstem on the streets, in people's minds. Tellling the truth (being a rat) - is unheard of nowadays with how those sets of rules have crossed over to the public.

What would you do if you saw a drug dealer taking an addict father's kid's gift certificates for Xmas shopping in exchange for drugs?

85% here would not say a word about it - 15% would be rats - 5% would put it on the dealer as to what he did was wrong and teach him the better ways.

Depends where you live though- in Calgary 85 % would be the informants.

All in all - alot of people that got it all on the outside would break down and think about suicide the whole time in prison.

Those who go in prison for long periods such as myself - have a hard time letting go of what was instilled in the mind - men of no allegiance basically - stuck in the battle of morals and different worlds. I found myself wanting to punch somebody that called me goofy once for fun- because goof in Canadian prisons is fighting words of the highest level.

LHX
05-17-2006, 12:45 PM
would you agree that if you can endure jail there is not much else that you cant endure?


when i talk about developing strength

ultimately thats what i am trying to get at


'if one could say what it means to do good
it would be to endure suffering' - hagakure

brown_dogg
05-17-2006, 08:54 PM
why arenīt you direct with your words? come on, doesnt sound as if you started this thread because you want ppl seriously discussing it.

do you know the stanford experiment? very interesting...

http://www.prisonexp.org/

that is an interesting experiment. they had to end it really short cuz of the trauma it was causing the kids.