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LHX
05-27-2006, 10:48 PM
the real cost of freedom in this society is death or incarceration

Aqueous Moon
05-27-2006, 11:35 PM
^^^ Word.

I got one cost of freedom to add....the crazy house.

Many have suffered the label of crazy because of their pursuit of freedom.

INF
05-28-2006, 12:24 AM
The real cost of freedom is letting go of one's self or the form of self. However you see it.


One:mmmyah:

LHX
05-28-2006, 07:52 AM
^^^ Word.

I got one cost of freedom to add....the crazy house.

Many have suffered the label of crazy because of their pursuit of freedom.

TRUE


i guess thats kind of a form of incarceration

PEACE

Prince Rai
05-28-2006, 09:40 AM
some may say death is the opening to the afterworld, thus freing you from the incarceration which is "the life on earth"...

perhaps argumented by religious folk..

peace

denaturat
05-28-2006, 07:28 PM
the real cost of freedom in this society is death or incarceration

explain

LHX
05-28-2006, 07:33 PM
explain

what aspect is unclear?

denaturat
05-28-2006, 07:33 PM
non of it is clear. I don't know what you mean, so obviously you are not being clear.

Frontal Lobotomy
05-28-2006, 07:47 PM
My guess is that while we're part of contemporary society, we're not free. People who are incarcerated are taken out of society, so in some indirect form are free (victims of irony) and yeah, death is the ultimate freedom. I'd say LHX is hitting the right buttons once again, as we're not free, well not really anyway. We're all having our proverbial strings pulled in some way or other.

LHX
05-28-2006, 08:00 PM
My guess is that while we're part of contemporary society, we're not free. People who are incarcerated are taken out of society, so in some indirect form are free (victims of irony) and yeah, death is the ultimate freedom. I'd say LHX is hitting the right buttons once again, as we're not free, well not really anyway. We're all having our proverbial strings pulled in some way or other.

and to take it one step further - if you find the strength to free yourself right now from any unnecessary restrictions
- whether you want to argue they are self-imposed or socially imposed -

it would not be long before your actions result in you being incarcerated or killed

denaturat
05-28-2006, 08:03 PM
You need to put together an argument instead of just making an assertion.

LHX
05-28-2006, 08:10 PM
You need to put together an argument instead of just making an assertion.

you need to let it be known what the aim of this society is from your perspective

because you sure as shit seem to enjoy defending something that seems to be the source of all things bad in the known universe



my argument is that this society is so ass backwards
and people are so un-free
that anybody who does truly find freedom would get killed or find themselves locked up
due to the flaws in this current society

denaturat
05-28-2006, 08:14 PM
you need to let it be known what the aim of this society is from your perspective

because you sure as shit seem to enjoy defending something that seems to be the source of all things bad in the known universe



my argument is that this society is so ass backwards
and people are so un-free
that anybody who does truly find freedom would get killed or find themselves locked up
due to the flaws in this current society

for example? i can say god is dead, I can say fuck bush, I can say god is great, I can do a lot without being incarcerated. but perhaps I have a simple minded view of what it is to be free. care to educate me?

LHX
05-28-2006, 08:17 PM
go sleep under a tree at high park tonite

denaturat
05-28-2006, 08:45 PM
go sleep under a tree at high park tonite

only if you come to tuck me in

Aqueous Moon
05-28-2006, 09:18 PM
TRUE


i guess thats kind of a form of incarceration

PEACE

Yeah...I'd consider it a form of incarceration too.

But, even more so an assasination of character.

Slandering a person in this way is probally one of the most effective forms of control this society uses.

And to add to the crazy label, you have labels like criminal or felon, ex -con.

These labels cost a lot of good people their lives.

Prince Rai
05-29-2006, 02:57 PM
i reckon freedom is limited by various factors, traditions, laws, and other things listed on the thread...

the list can be endless.. perhaps?

LHX
05-29-2006, 03:14 PM
ANYTHING THAT UNNECESSARILY RESTRICTS YOUR MOVEMENT HINDERS YOUR FREEDOM




this statement is easy to agree with
but
we begin disagreeing when we explore what is necessary and unnecessary

that is where we enter into the realm of opinion vs fact
and
suffer the plague that opinions and facts both look the same

Prince Rai
05-29-2006, 03:16 PM
ANYTHING THAT UNNECESSARILY RESTRICTS YOUR MOVEMENT HINDERS YOUR FREEDOM




this statement is easy to agree with
but
we begin disagreeing when we explore what is necessary and unnecessary

that is where we enter into the realm of opinion vs fact
and
suffer the plague that opinions and facts both look the same

perhaps the lack of ability to view things properly, to distinguish facts and opinions, contributes further to the fact or opinion that we never really are free due to our limitaions.

LHX
05-29-2006, 03:29 PM
perhaps the lack of ability to view things properly, to distinguish facts and opinions, contributes further to the fact or opinion that we never really are free due to our limitaions.

or
the process of being free and freeing oneself is something that must be done constantly

constant renewal

Prince Rai
05-29-2006, 03:34 PM
like we need to be reborn from the imminent threat which is the lack of freedom which is imposed on us from unseen sources?

june181972
06-22-2006, 01:57 PM
LHX,

You said the cost of freedom in "this society."
Do you think going to a deserted place, or a place not touched by the influences from our society could lead to freedom?
I could argue that a homeless person is free in our society.

But if one must get up every morning and "contribute" to the corporation called the U.S.A., no we cannot be free in this society.

Unless one has capitalized on capitalism enough to have financial freedom, I think the goal is the often talked about but rarely understood, freedom of the mind.

LHX
06-22-2006, 02:09 PM
LHX,

You said the cost of freedom in "this society."
Do you think going to a deserted place, or a place not touched by the influences from our society could lead to freedom?
I could argue that a homeless person is free in our society.

But if one must get up every morning and "contribute" to the corporation called the U.S.A., no we cannot be free in this society.


That is a tough question because at this point, there is no known inhabitable place that is not touched by this society.

That being said, if there was a place where you could go and not be pressured into producing, then yes, that type of environment would be more conducive to finding freedom.

A homeless person in our society is free until his body tells him that it needs to eat.
At that point, this society works in such a way that a hungry man is not allowed to eat ANYTHING unless he contributes to the machine in some way.

There is no access to productive land in this society.

You are forced to do somebody else's bidding.


Unless one has capitalized on capitalism enough to have financial freedom, I think the goal is the often talked about but rarely understood, freedom of the mind.
True.

Whether you have 'financial' freedom or not.

The goal is the same for all.

MoT
06-22-2006, 02:36 PM
That is a tough question because at this point, there is no known inhabitable place that is not touched by this society.

That being said, if there was a place where you could go and not be pressured into producing, then yes, that type of environment would be more conducive to finding freedom.

A homeless person in our society is free until his body tells him that it needs to eat.
At that point, this society works in such a way that a hungry man is not allowed to eat ANYTHING unless he contributes to the machine in some way.

There is no access to productive land in this society.

You are forced to do somebody else's bidding.


True.

Whether you have 'financial' freedom or not.

The goal is the same for all.


even if such untouched environment existed then still you would have to produce for yourself.. as far as isolation from the society, financial freedom is the "easiest" way to achieve it in this society...

still true that without contribution to the machine not much can be done..

tho is the goal too protected from achieving ?

Aqueous Moon
06-22-2006, 02:41 PM
tho is the goal too protected from achieving ?

The goal of freedom of the mind is a never ending one.

We don't achieve it...we maintain it.

Everyday and everytime we learn something, we continue to accomplish that goal.

The Hound
06-22-2006, 02:53 PM
still think if you are in jail or wotever you can still be 'free' freedom dont really have to be restricted to not being locked away someone, if like you have spiritual enlightenment and truely believe as a human being you have no negative chains from society pulling you down, even if you are jail, you could consider that free yeah? i didnt explain well but i kinda hope u get wot i mean,like i see alot of testemonies from prisoners saying that jail time has made them re think their stance and usually they knock back their past beliefs and find a new direction making more sense, therefore setting their mind free,freedom is more a mental state than physical tho i still understand ur point LHX just expressing a diff perspective yeah

yeh moon is right too, slandering, accusations, subjective labeling has ruined so many lives,one little termn determining so much is so wrong and unjust i just hope those who suffer like that are rewarded in the after life and those causing that pain are duely punished