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JackOfHearts
06-05-2006, 12:58 PM
this is jus my opinion and i dont want to cause offense, but wud like 2 discuss this....

my beleif in God is simple because

how can man b like man.....you kno we have 'hands' 'legs' all adapted to natural surrounding and how we 'work' on the universe, and i dont beleive this mcould b a coincidence born out of 'the big bang', there musty b some intelligent force. Fair enough for the view of evolution, but for anythin to develop, for any foundation to 'build' there must b a planner behind it.....e.g. God.

lookin 4ward 2 readin ur views.

abasi
06-05-2006, 01:14 PM
i dont think its a coincidence either
its just to perfect or so its seems

LHX
06-05-2006, 01:21 PM
but
could it have been any other way?

denaturat
06-05-2006, 01:45 PM
but
could it have been any other way?

yes, there are countless possibilities, and possible explanations that are beyond the grasp of the human mind. but it does not mean that god or and intelligent being is an architect. it's just one of coutless possibilities.

TAURO
06-05-2006, 02:02 PM
God exists to keep all us motherfuckas on our toes.

JackOfHearts
06-05-2006, 02:08 PM
yep defo...good will always prevail evil....

snapple
06-05-2006, 02:11 PM
i think god is just human conscious

JackOfHearts
06-05-2006, 02:16 PM
i think God is IN the human conscious but also exists.....i wudnt say he was just...

Wamukota X
06-05-2006, 02:22 PM
To say there is no God is saying that everything that exist today was an accident. There is no such thing as an accident. God does exist.


"The probability of life originating from an accident is comparable to the probability of the Unabridged Dictionary resulting from an explosion in a printing shop." -J.C. Monsma

MaShPG
06-05-2006, 02:24 PM
I agree with you and that's the same reason I believe in something...(definitely not the contemporary God). Like our bodies just work too perfectly (digestive system, birth, all that amazing stuff) for it to come through evolution. Somebody/thing must have made us.

Claustrofobic
06-05-2006, 02:25 PM
this is jus my opinion and i dont want to cause offense, but wud like 2 discuss this....

my beleif in God is simple because

how can man b like man.....you kno we have 'hands' 'legs' all adapted to natural surrounding and how we 'work' on the universe, and i dont beleive this mcould b a coincidence born out of 'the big bang', there musty b some intelligent force. Fair enough for the view of evolution, but for anythin to develop, for any foundation to 'build' there must b a planner behind it.....e.g. God.

lookin 4ward 2 readin ur views.

Peace, I understand where you're coming from with your opinion about thinking its too much of a coinsidence that we got arms and legs to be active with what we do. But this is your logic because your used to this. You consider it normal cause everyone has them. But what if we didnt have legs and arms, or even heads? What if we all were complete different beings that we are now, would that still be normal? There wouldnt be any coincidence there cause we wouldnt have those organs, right? God didnt necesarrily gave us these organs. I know this is complicated but what I'm trying to say is that if it's not necesarrily logical for us to adapt to a planet that we might have created ourselfs...

When your done compreheding that, ask yourself the question: If god created everything, from earth to man, who or what created God? After all, everything has a beginning and an ending.

Claustrofobic
06-05-2006, 02:26 PM
I agree with you and that's the same reason I believe in something...(definitely not the contemporary God). Like our bodies just work too perfectly (digestive system, birth, all that amazing stuff) for it to come through evolution. Somebody/thing must have made us.

Peace, you're saying you don't believe in evolution? The evolution theory has actually been scientifically proven. I dont understand why some people go out of the way of this theory, it has been verified and proven that we DO come from animals, it is an actual fact.

MaShPG
06-05-2006, 02:31 PM
I see where that might have been confusing; I believe in evolution, but not evolution alone. Things fell into place too perfectly to attribute everything to evolution. If you've ever studied biology you know how perfectly made the human body is, and I can't believe it just evolved into that.

Claustrofobic
06-05-2006, 02:34 PM
Ok I understand, but, are you able to answer my other question?

If god created everything, from earth to man, who or what created God? After all, everything has a beginning and an ending.

MaShPG
06-05-2006, 02:40 PM
I wish I knew.

Claustrofobic
06-05-2006, 02:46 PM
Thats the common reaction I get from that. Thats the reason I DONT believe in any god..

LHX
06-05-2006, 03:22 PM
yes, there are countless possibilities, and possible explanations that are beyond the grasp of the human mind. but it does not mean that god or and intelligent being is an architect. it's just one of coutless possibilities.

lmao

in an infinite universe all possibilities exist

tancen
06-05-2006, 03:38 PM
I think God is something humans invented to explain the unexplainable...

Peace

whitey
06-05-2006, 04:18 PM
I see where that might have been confusing; I believe in evolution, but not evolution alone. Things fell into place too perfectly to attribute everything to evolution. If you've ever studied biology you know how perfectly made the human body is, and I can't believe it just evolved into that.

Whats so perfect about it?


People act like humans are so important and the universe revolves around us. We are only a blip on the scale of time.

LHX
06-05-2006, 04:20 PM
I think God is something humans invented to explain the unexplainable...

Peace

the alternative view is that god created humans to define himself

MathMatician
06-05-2006, 04:56 PM
Well You Gotta Ask Where Did The Term 'god' Come From? Religion Was Created By Man, Laws Were Created By Man, Gods Were Created By Man. During Ancient Times The Greeks Believed In Dozens And Dozens Of Gods; God Of Sun, God Of War, Go Of The Wind, God Of Fire Etc. Buddahism Believes In Reincarnation, I Mean Come On Who Really Knows For Sure?

What Tickles My Pickel Is The Mental And Emotional Aspect Of Humans, Our Souls. I Think You'll Find More Enlightening Answers To The Questions Than Looking At Evidence. Why Do We Dream? Why Do We Feel Guilt And Remorse? Why Do We Kill? Why Do We Love? Why Do We Only Use 10% Of Our Minds?

Is This All From God? Who Knows, Because I Don't. Maybe Some Light Will Shed Upon Me As I Get Older And Wiser

JackOfHearts
06-05-2006, 06:05 PM
Peace, I understand where you're coming from with your opinion about thinking its too much of a coinsidence that we got arms and legs to be active with what we do. But this is your logic because your used to this. You consider it normal cause everyone has them. But what if we didnt have legs and arms, or even heads? What if we all were complete different beings that we are now, would that still be normal? There wouldnt be any coincidence there cause we wouldnt have those organs, right? God didnt necesarrily gave us these organs. I know this is complicated but what I'm trying to say is that if it's not necesarrily logical for us to adapt to a planet that we might have created ourselfs...

When your done compreheding that, ask yourself the question: If god created everything, from earth to man, who or what created God? After all, everything has a beginning and an ending.

...well thats the point, we are given those things...therfore there is a higher intelligence

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 06:13 PM
I see where that might have been confusing; I believe in evolution, but not evolution alone. Things fell into place too perfectly to attribute everything to evolution. If you've ever studied biology you know how perfectly made the human body is, and I can't believe it just evolved into that.

perfection?

biological evolution and cosmic development are chock full of trial and error and mistakes

a look at our genetic history, biological dvelopment and morphology alones shows evidence of this trial and error natural process.

we are hardly an example of perfection or perfect development.

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 06:18 PM
What Tickles My Pickel Is The Mental And Emotional Aspect Of Humans, Our Souls. I Think You'll Find More Enlightening Answers To The Questions Than Looking At Evidence. Why Do We Dream? Why Do We Feel Guilt And Remorse? Why Do We Kill? Why Do We Love? Why Do We Only Use 10% Of Our Minds?

Is This All From God? Who Knows, Because I Don't. Maybe Some Light Will Shed Upon Me As I Get Older And Wiser

why do we dream - simple result of neurological activity in the forebrain of what we call sentient beings... nothing special here

why do we feel guilt and remorse? - very simple, ingrained concepts of what is right and wrong couple with a sense of what is beneficial to a species vs detrimental to a species (this has an evolutionary basis and is evolutionarily advantageous)

Why do we kill ? - simple result of psychological and sociological factors

why do we love - simple evolutionary adaptation to ensure the survival of the species. romantic love is driven by testosterone and serotinin level increase and basically is an evolutionary adaptation designed to get a creature in the mode of looking for a potential mate...nothing special here

why do we use 10 of our brain? - incorrect myth.. we use 100% of our brains 100% of the time.... right now, im using 100% of my brain and so are u, whether u know it or not.....nothing special here

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 06:20 PM
I see where that might have been confusing; I believe in evolution, but not evolution alone. Things fell into place too perfectly to attribute everything to evolution. If you've ever studied biology you know how perfectly made the human body is, and I can't believe it just evolved into that.

thats an incorrect statement

when one studies biology, they learn exactlly how imperfect life is

MaShPG
06-05-2006, 06:29 PM
Oh, I studied biology and I got the impression that life and the human body is so intricately and almost perfectly designed. I guess others have their own interpretations though.

arto
06-05-2006, 06:29 PM
i think those that justify the existence of god or a higher power with the arguement that "everything is too beautiful/perfect to be made by chance." are missing something very fundamental. this, to me falls apart almost immediately. whether something is beautiful or not is of course an opinion. know that saying, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," ever wondered why it's not "beauty is in the eye of the creator?" mainly because, beauty is not factual evidence of anything, it is not evidence of a divine purpose, it is just evidence of your appreciation. it is only evidence of your opinion. you may think the world is beautiful, and so do i, but i don't for one minute let that make me think that some divine being made it.

my opinion is that religion is a device to control people and make them do what you want. people need answers for everything, and if we don't have them, we feel empty. of course this hurts, so you need to fill it with something, which is why the idea of god is very satisfying. work hard all your life, don't break the law, don't question those in power, in other words, have absolutely no fun at all, just contribute to the system of control, and when you die, you get some unconfirmed divine eternity, which by the way is a paradoxical notion anyway. it all smells a bit to me. this is why i am an extreme scientist in the context that i don't believe in any supernatural forces, no ghosts, no spirits, no god, no jesus, no heaven, no hell, no salvation, no eternity, just us on our sick, sad little planet, fucking ourselves out of existence with climate change, political instability and blind, blind ignorance. religion is a stumbling block on the path of human evolution. the sooner we get rid of it, the better. all religion breeds is ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy, pride, and conflict.

no, i don't believe in god.

arto
06-05-2006, 06:31 PM
why do we dream - simple result of neurological activity in the forebrain of what we call sentient beings... nothing special here

why do we feel guilt and remorse? - very simple, ingrained concepts of what is right and wrong couple with a sense of what is beneficial to a species vs detrimental to a species (this has an evolutionary basis and is evolutionarily advantageous)

Why do we kill ? - simple result of psychological and sociological factors

why do we love - simple evolutionary adaptation to ensure the survival of the species. romantic love is driven by testosterone and serotinin level increase and basically is an evolutionary adaptation designed to get a creature in the mode of looking for a potential mate...nothing special here

why do we use 10 of our brain? - incorrect myth.. we use 100% of our brains 100% of the time.... right now, im using 100% of my brain and so are u, whether u know it or not.....nothing special here

you seem like my kinda guy

Iron Fist
06-05-2006, 06:48 PM
Yo I found a page on internet about the proof of God. Definitely interesting. It'll maybe bring some more discussion whether it's valid or not?

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 06:52 PM
Oh, I studied biology and I got the impression that life and the human body is so intricately and almost perfectly designed. I guess others have their own interpretations though.

it depends on your level of study and intricateness...

im not sure why u now state the qualifier "almost".. before perfection (something is either perfect or it is not.. if its almost perfect, its not perfect and thus the designer messed up somewhere..... )

any scientist or logical mind would tell u that "perfection" is a subjective assertion automatically biased by the presenter... how can something be perfect when we define perfection based on ourself as a subjective standard.

if one believes we are perfect, they must 1st tackle why do we possess useless wastefull deleterious genes in our genome?

Iron Fist
06-05-2006, 06:56 PM
i think those that justify the existence of god or a higher power with the arguement that "everything is too beautiful/perfect to be made by chance." are missing something very fundamental. this, to me falls apart almost immediately. whether something is beautiful or not is of course an opinion. know that saying, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," ever wondered why it's not "beauty is in the eye of the creator?" mainly because, beauty is not factual evidence of anything, it is not evidence of a divine purpose, it is just evidence of your appreciation. it is only evidence of your opinion. you may think the world is beautiful, and so do i, but i don't for one minute let that make me think that some divine being made it.

my opinion is that religion is a device to control people and make them do what you want. people need answers for everything, and if we don't have them, we feel empty. of course this hurts, so you need to fill it with something, which is why the idea of god is very satisfying. work hard all your life, don't break the law, don't question those in power, in other words, have absolutely no fun at all, just contribute to the system of control, and when you die, you get some unconfirmed divine eternity, which by the way is a paradoxical notion anyway. it all smells a bit to me. this is why i am an extreme scientist in the context that i don't believe in any supernatural forces, no ghosts, no spirits, no god, no jesus, no heaven, no hell, no salvation, no eternity, just us on our sick, sad little planet, fucking ourselves out of existence with climate change, political instability and blind, blind ignorance. religion is a stumbling block on the path of human evolution. the sooner we get rid of it, the better. all religion breeds is ignorance, double standards, hypocrisy, pride, and conflict.

no, i don't believe in god.
"everything is too perfect to be made by chance" is right IMO. Everything on Earth fits together. Man was created then woman, who were made to breed together, for them to have an infinite line of descent (if there is no end). Water is vital for our survival on earth, it's been proved, so without it we wouldn't be here. So explain how could an explosion or whatever explanation you may think create two human genres that fit perfectly together, AND by coincidence place an almost infinite amount of water on Earth, which is the key to our survival ? There are infinite examples like this, that just grow up to be an infinite amount of coincidences.

Iron Fist
06-05-2006, 06:58 PM
Yo I found a page on internet about the proof of God. Definitely interesting. It'll maybe bring some more discussion whether it's valid or not?

http://www.doesgodexist.org/Phamplets/Mansproof.html
Some will maybe arguee this doesn't prove his presence, but it does reduce many atheist theories though.

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 07:01 PM
So explain how could an explosion or whatever explanation you may think create two human genres that fit perfectly together, AND by coincidence place an almost infinite amount of water on Earth, which is the key to our survival ? There are infinite examples like this, that just grow up to be an infinite amount of coincidences.

im sorry but your standpoint (like many religious views , is based on ignorance and a lack of knowledge)

ignorance in and of itself is not a diss or insult.. it just describes a lack of knowledge.. i blame our school systems

u come to a conclusion based on your own personal questions and uncomfortable lack

1) u obviously dont understand big bang theory (big bang wasnt an "explosion")

2) the earth has no where near an "infinite amount of water"

3) by your reasoning there will indeed be an "infinite amount" of those examples because according to you reasoning, any and everything u dont fully understand u will quikly attribute to perfection and design

Dr. Timbs

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 07:02 PM
Some will maybe arguee this doesn't prove his presence, but it does reduce many atheist theories though.

every last one of those arguments are old, outdated and invalid and do not reduce any atheistic claims

this forum never ceases to amaze me on the amount of invalid claims in the world

there is a serious disconnect/breakdown of critical thinking.............. but i am optimistic that humanity will overcome this "Era of Error"

(i think thats gonna be my new slogan, lol) gonna get logos and t shirts printed up)..

real talk

Iron Fist
06-05-2006, 07:23 PM
im sorry but your standpoint (like many religious views , is based on ignorance and a lack of knowledge)

ignorance in and of itself is not a diss or insult.. it just describes a lack of knowledge.. i blame our school systems

u come to a conclusion based on your own personal questions and uncomfortable lack

1) u obviously dont understand big bang theory (big bang wasnt an "explosion")

2) the earth has no where near an "infinite amount of water"

3) by your reasoning there will indeed be an "infinite amount" of those examples because according to you reasoning, any and everything u dont fully understand u will quikly attribute to perfection and design

Dr. Timbs
Infinite amount of water -->`correction, renewable amount of water. Yeah this was a little bit of an exanageration, though it wasn't as you seem to always say as an opposition "lack of knowledge". An exageration BTW is a linguistic device used to amplify an opinion or whatever.

Infinite again was another exaggeration, but still there is a multitude of other coincidences.

That's what I learned about the Big Bang. Looks like I was wrong. Can you explain me this theory then ?

My First Timbs
06-05-2006, 07:31 PM
it wouldnt of been an exxageration if it wasnt brought attention to..

but thats neither here nor there

the earth doesnt have an infinite amount of renewable water either. everytime water is filtered or renewed into aother source, the original volume's molecular mass is degraded/diminished.. so its a finite amount to a calculatable volume of water on the planet we have (even taking into account rainfal and water created via byroducts of hydrolosis reactions!)

the arguments u presented are not coincidences.. they are what is known in the scientific field as "forced correlations".. they are subjective and invalid..what u define as a coincidence... some objective 3rd party alien from the planet Crypton will not see as a coincidence at all... think objectiveley !

big bang is a complicated theory, i suggest u familiarize yourself with its tenets and basics.. explosion implies a particle exploding and expanding out into space..this isnt how u should think of it......

Longbongcilvaringz
06-06-2006, 03:14 AM
god is a construction of ancient society to answer the unanswerable.

JackOfHearts
06-06-2006, 03:59 AM
i think those that justify the existence of god or a higher power with the arguement that "everything is too beautiful/perfect to be made by chance." are missing something very fundamental. this, to me falls apart almost immediately. whether something is beautiful or not is of course an opinion. know that saying, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder," ever wondered why it's not "beauty is in the eye of the creator?" mainly because, beauty is not factual evidence of anything, it is not evidence of a divine purpose, it is just evidence of your appreciation. it is only evidence of your opinion. you may think the world is beautiful, and so do i, but i don't for one minute let that make me think that some divine being made it.

we arent talkin about beauty...beauty is aesthetic its individual to each and every person while the creation of man is grouped as a whole- hence the beleif a higher intelligence has created this.

MathMatician
06-06-2006, 09:25 AM
why do we dream - simple result of neurological activity in the forebrain of what we call sentient beings... nothing special here
---------
Bullshit, because I get dreams on certain things that are nowhere near my conscious or deep thoughts. Just look at last night, I dreamed of some dude I knew by face in high school and hardly spoke with. Mother fucka was doing some decathelon shit and i'm on the side with somebody talking. And I was always an athlete in h.s. so one cannot say that i was a sideliner and this cat never crossed my mind ever. and then some random lady was lifting up her skirt exploiting her panties in public but she was only looking at me; but that i think i can explain that part though------------
why do we feel guilt and remorse? - very simple, ingrained concepts of what is right and wrong couple with a sense of what is beneficial to a species vs detrimental to a species (this has an evolutionary basis and is evolutionarily advantageous)
---------------
you didn't explain much there. Knowing right and wrong and giving a shit from right and wrong are to different things---------

Why do we kill ? - simple result of psychological and sociological factors
-----------

For a portion, not all. Plenty of stable minded and functional individuals kill.
------------------

why do we love - simple evolutionary adaptation to ensure the survival of the species. romantic love is driven by testosterone and serotinin level increase and basically is an evolutionary adaptation designed to get a creature in the mode of looking for a potential mate...nothing special here
------------------

I don't think of mating if I love someone. Nor do I need another to survive or gain prospertiy. Love falls in the same category as friendship, just without the sex. So you can have friends all day and masturbate all night; same shit. Love is special because it can deter one from so much wrong doing. It can civilize a savage-----------
why do we use 10 of our brain? - incorrect myth.. we use 100% of our brains 100% of the time.... right now, im using 100% of my brain and so are u, whether u know it or not.....nothing special here
----------------

No we don't. Our human side is what stops us from maximizng our brings; such as fear, doubt, misery, depression, lust, humor etc etc. What we accomplished as humans is special, but we've done what? Computers? airplaine? Come onnnnnnnnnnnnn....that's booty


And for the record, I'm not religious at all

My First Timbs
06-06-2006, 09:48 AM
I exaplained everything perfectly satisfactorily... your just not willing or ready to accept these explanations..
its obvious that u dont have a full understanding of neurology, how the brain works, how the subconscious effects the conscious (and vice versa).... its also obvious that you dont understand how evolutionary concepts work (in regard to the explanation of benefit to behavioral advantages due to benefit vs detriment and the concept of what we define as "love")
you must realize that in regard to love as an evolutionary concept, you dont have to "think" about mating.. thats not how it works.. its an evolved trait thats part of our instinctual makeup. when you are "in love" with someone (romatically, not a relative), it is an evolved cognition designed and refined over time to ensure the success of the species... i could go on about this, but its moot if a fundamental understanding of the mechanism of evolution is not fully understood...
im sorry if im being short and im not tryin to be offensive in any way, but i just glanced at your post and needed to respond and dont have much time to respond fully (nor do i have time to bring u up to snuff on how the brain and evolution works right now)
but the fact that u dreamt about what u described has nothing to do with your conscious or deep thoughts.. u must first truly understand how the brain works and assembles things via components. many dreams are of things that we never witnessed, never will witnes or have never heard about.. this isnt special.. it all boils down to how teh brain works and can assemble imagery.

MathMatician
06-06-2006, 04:02 PM
i know a good portion of how the brains, and there are even more portions i do not know. i do not believe in a "GOD". I do not believe there is someone in an anonymous place watching us or a burning bush on some symbolic shit. but I do believe in the soul, I do believe in spirituality. when the body dies so does the brain of course, but for you to think there aren't forces among us here on earth or forces beyond earth that's on you. I have stories that'll get your attention, but that's for another time.

JackOfHearts
06-06-2006, 04:48 PM
only 1 real conclusion u can draw from this discussion is that both sides of the argument r stubborn beleivers. and wen push comes to shove you can never change a TRUE beleivers vital viewpoint....!

My First Timbs
06-06-2006, 05:29 PM
only 1 real conclusion u can draw from this discussion is that both sides of the argument r stubborn beleivers. and wen push comes to shove you can never change a TRUE beleivers vital viewpoint....!

thats not true

i would gladly cange my viewpoint in the face of contradictory evidence..and i wish everyone would

to not do so is indefensible

JackOfHearts
06-06-2006, 05:43 PM
i disagree if sum1 is a TRUE i mean TRUE in every sense of the word i reckn their opinions wont ever TRUELY change....!

My First Timbs
06-06-2006, 05:59 PM
i disagree if sum1 is a TRUE i mean TRUE in every sense of the word i reckn their opinions wont ever TRUELY change....!

that my friend is the difference bewteen someone who is rational vs irrational

for someone to maintain their position even in the face of contradictory evidence, they have to have a psychosis

for ex.. (lets keep it simple)

if i believed that 3+3 = 7, and then someone comes along with an argument based on reason and verifiable evidence that 3+3 does not equal 7..

i would be the silliest irrational person on the planet if i remained "true" to my original position and still claimed that 3+3 = 7..

this is what u are proposing in your post above..... pure irrationality and th efundamental difference bewteen a rational stance and a dogmatic claim

this simple concept is the similar mechanism of "reasoning" that allows many to believe that dinosaurs never existed and that the earth is still flat

its not healthy and we see the ill effects of this mode of thinking everytime we look at the world we live in

snapple
06-06-2006, 06:47 PM
poor my first timbz hah, at least u tried dook

adedwutang
06-06-2006, 07:18 PM
sometimes i like to think god was created by science, or nature for that matter. i kno it sounds kind of stupid but think of it this way. in the universe, there are extremes to every aspect of life. whether in size, as the universe itself is so unmeasurable that its mind blowing to imagine something of such incredible proportions still b growing. theres extreme cold, extreme heat. everything u can think of probably has a counterpart with extremely high or low amounts. basically what im tryin to say without sounding like an idiot is that if theres so many things that are so extreme, why not an extreme being. why not something that went against the odds and became extremely powerful and is just as much inconceivable as the amount of energy released from a red giant with every passing second. sorry for the excessive use of extreme but reading this thread made me think about god in a new way, and sorry if i cant explain this to all of u as i see it in my mind since im not exactly on the intellectual level that i see many of u are.
get at me-

JackOfHearts
06-07-2006, 12:09 PM
my first timbs........

your talking about something that can be proved 100%, mathematics- however the existence of God is based on pure true beleifs....this cannot be proved, therfore your point is invalid.

Skellington
06-07-2006, 12:13 PM
...animals don't wonder if God exists.....they probable think we're all dumb for believing that....

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 01:13 PM
So why are only humans the result of a significant evolution? Why haven't trees evolved, dogs, insects etc evolved into a more drastic being? Do you believe humans will eventually grow a 3rd arm or start growing wings in thousands or millions of years? Why would the evolving stop now or would it?

whitey
06-07-2006, 01:28 PM
^You clearly don't know what your talking about. Everything evolves through natural selection. Animals come they go, they change, depending on their enviorment.

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 01:32 PM
So Why Don't You Drop Some Of Today's Animals Origins

whitey
06-07-2006, 01:50 PM
Well if the earth was once barren, and life first started in the water. Than moved to land. Clearly dinosours weren't popping out of the water.

A clearer example would be based on numerous similarities and differences between living species, evolutionary biology makes predictions about the features of ancestral forms. For example, numerous features indicate that birds are derived from reptilian ancestors. By contrast, these data reject the possibility that birds were derived from other groups, such as flying insects. Scientists have discovered fossil birds with feathers and legs like modern birds, but which also have teeth, clawed digits on their forelimbs, and a tailbone like their reptilian ancestors.


Also in recent years, many bacterial pathogens have evolved resistance to antibiotics used to cure infections, thereby requiring the development of new and more costly treatments. That is evolution in its simplest form. Drugs that once treated bacteria no longer work because the bacteria is evolving and becoming immune to the drugs.

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 02:17 PM
All That Sounds Nice And I'm Sure Those Are Facts.

But Let Me Ask You This. Why Haven't All Other Forms Of Life Have Come Anywhere Near Our Intellect?

whitey
06-07-2006, 02:30 PM
Thats a good question, something I'd prefer to leave to timbs to answer just because I think he'd do a better job with it.

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 02:34 PM
Fisher Price My First Timberlands!!

whitey
06-07-2006, 03:15 PM
To be honest I don't know the answer and I don't like talking out of my ass, I feel its counter productive.

MsRzaRecTaH
06-07-2006, 03:26 PM
What About The Devil? Who Believes In The Devil? Only Reason Why I Asked Is Because Someone Asked Me Today And.. Well I Couldnt Really Discuss It.. But Yeah I Mean If Some Of You Believe In God.. . Then Do You Believe In The Devil..

Peace

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 03:31 PM
I Think The Devil Is Just Symbolic

MsRzaRecTaH
06-07-2006, 03:35 PM
Word? Elaborate.. Why Is That?? This Is A Deep Subject And I Cant Really Elaborate On It Right Now.. I Wish I Was At Home Already.. Peace Math

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 03:49 PM
I Think Your Soul Will Re-experience What It Dealt With During Your Lifetime. Good, Evil...however You Want To Define Either Term, I Think What You Experience Will Be Along The Lines Of An Eternal Dream. I Believe There's A Higher Spiritual Power That Creates The Forces Of Science And Your Soul Will Be A Part Of That. Feel Me? Peace Rizzy

MsRzaRecTaH
06-07-2006, 04:00 PM
Soul Or Spirit? Many Confuse Those 2.. Im Not Saying You.. Just In General...

My First Timbs
06-07-2006, 04:08 PM
So why are only humans the result of a significant evolution? Why haven't trees evolved, dogs, insects etc evolved into a more drastic being? Do you believe humans will eventually grow a 3rd arm or start growing wings in thousands or millions of years? Why would the evolving stop now or would it?

(and this is the person who told me my view was invalid)

its clear that he/she has no idea what they are talking about in regard to evolution

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 04:12 PM
Yo Timbs, Answer What I Asked Whitey.

Why Haven't All Other Forms Of Life Come Anywhere Near The Intellect Of Humans?


Rza, Same Thing. Both Consist Faculties Of Thought, Action & Emotion

My First Timbs
06-07-2006, 04:29 PM
All That Sounds Nice And I'm Sure Those Are Facts.

But Let Me Ask You This. Why Haven't All Other Forms Of Life Have Come Anywhere Near Our Intellect?

before one questions or tries to have a rebuttal to biological evolution, u must first have atleast a "beginners level" understanding of the discipline........sadly and invariably this is not the case.. the majority who disagree or question or doubt evolution, dont even have a remedial understanding of the discipline

everyone wants to have a say so in the matter, but doesnt want to do the footwork required to atleast have enuff understanding to partake in the discussion...............
evolution is one of the most complex , all encompassing disciplines in the scientific field.. it is very complex because it relies on great knowledge of other scientific disciplines such as ecology, chemistry, biology, organic chemistry, geoloy and genetics)


Prime example.. u didnt even know it.. but your question is based on Ecology, not evolution. You attacked the discipline of evolution, simply do to an uncomfortable lack of knowledge in Ecology!

okay, now that i got that "Preamble Rant" out the way, i can answer your question very simply.

In Ecology, (meaning the living systems and environment that allow areas to be habitable) there are evolutionarily designed "niches".. (meaning slots to be filled)


There are only a finite amount of niches per ecosystem (depending on the environment). On planet Earth, homo sapiens (you and I) control the ecological niche designated as the "Sentient, top of the food chain".... due to our evolutionary history and successful adaptation to the world we live in, we basically control that niche that would otherwise be filled by another species (remember, before humans were on the planet, that niche was primarily filled by larger creatures such as dinosaurs and large terrestrial mammals)...

Homo Sapiens are basically acting as a form of natural selection on other creatures which we share the world with! We are tool wielding, intelligent predatory omnivores who automatically suppress any macroevolutionary advancement that would allow creatures to surpass or reach our current "position" merely by us existing!

I could go on for hours on this topic but it is difficult because it is a very complex topic that requires much prerequisite knowledge and info to get into any of the specifics, and wutangcorp isnt that realm for that (as we all sadly know)


Timbs, Ph.D

P.S. all living creatures (and even some non living creatures such as viruses) evolve.. that includes trees and all the other things u mentioned a few posts back

botanical evolution is beautifully documented and understood even more so in certain instances than human evolution.

JackOfHearts
06-07-2006, 04:33 PM
timbs u sed mathmatician said ur point was invalid....its was actually me- read back!

MathMatician
06-07-2006, 04:35 PM
Ok See, You Just Wasted Your Time Typing. After Reading That First Paragraph I'm Disregarding Your Response. That's The Second Time You Try To Speak To Me Like A Baffoon. You Want To Try To Belittle Me And Speak To Me Like Some Kind Of Inferior You Won't Get A Response From Me. Had I Been One Of Your Students And You Spoke To Me That Way You Would Of Got Japped Right On The Eye Socket.


That's How I Do Nigga


Peace

whitey
06-07-2006, 04:36 PM
^ I think he was speaking more in general terms and not necessarly refering to you. But just my intepretation, I could be wrong.

MsRzaRecTaH
06-07-2006, 04:37 PM
Stupid.. Dont be Ignorant.. We will build later math...

My First Timbs
06-07-2006, 04:48 PM
timbs u sed mathmatician said ur point was invalid....its was actually me- read back!

my bad

My First Timbs
06-07-2006, 04:49 PM
Ok See, You Just Wasted Your Time Typing. After Reading That First Paragraph I'm Disregarding Your Response. That's The Second Time You Try To Speak To Me Like A Baffoon. You Want To Try To Belittle Me And Speak To Me Like Some Kind Of Inferior You Won't Get A Response From Me. Had I Been One Of Your Students And You Spoke To Me That Way You Would Of Got Japped Right On The Eye Socket.


That's How I Do Nigga


Peace

if u re read (without any defensive emotional reaction) its clear that i was purely commenting on society and not talking down to you.

i encourage u to read the rest.

MsRzaRecTaH
06-07-2006, 04:50 PM
Nah Math I aint calling you stupid.. just I meant it in a different way.. but Im not calling you stupid.. ugh.. I was thinking and typing out loud my apologies.. u know I got mad love for you anyways . .Peace MATH

snapple
06-07-2006, 06:39 PM
"So why are only humans the result of a significant evolution? Why haven't trees evolved, dogs, insects etc evolved into a more drastic being? Do you believe humans will eventually grow a 3rd arm or start growing wings in thousands or millions of years? Why would the evolving stop now or would it?"


whoever said that needs to go back to school hah

Aqueous Moon
06-07-2006, 08:31 PM
nvm.

Kriszy Substance
06-07-2006, 08:57 PM
First off...Snapple, I love the quote in your sig by GZA...I've been meaning to say it for a while. It is a real good one.

Anyway, not sure how I ended up in here. I have stayed away from the KTL section for a long time since it seems to be a bunch of people arguing about things we really wont ever know or agree upon.

I wonder Timbs, since you seem so into the scientific aspect of things, what you think of Einstein. I could be wrong, but I believe he proved that energy could not be created nor destroyed. Which brings many questions to mind as far as what happens when we die. Perhaps you have an opinion on this...what do you think happens to our energy when we die?

Another thought that has intrigued me for a while has to do with that same theory. If energy can not be created or destroyed, if it just simply changes form, then this computer I am typing on and everything else around me (including myself) has been here in some form since the begining of time....? I dont know, but I was hoping Timbs may have a thought on it since he seems to have a lot to say.

Im done. I dont know if I believe in God or not. I have not made up my mind on anything. And I am ok with that. I prefer serendipity. Love to all.

MathMatician
06-08-2006, 11:50 AM
I Don't Know Either Krissy. I Guess This A Case Where Ignorance Is Bliss! =d

arto
06-11-2006, 05:24 PM
All That Sounds Nice And I'm Sure Those Are Facts.

But Let Me Ask You This. Why Haven't All Other Forms Of Life Have Come Anywhere Near Our Intellect?

this is an obvious logical fallacy. how do you have any proof that animals don't have our intellect?