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Os3y3ris
07-19-2006, 10:35 PM
Nietzche:

Between ourselves, they are not even men. . . . If Islam despises Christianity, it has a thousandfold right to do so: Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men. . . .

Intrinsically there should be no more choice between Islam and Christianity than there is between an Arab and a Jew. The decision is already reached; nobody remains at liberty to choose here. Either a man is a Chandala or he is not. . . . "War to the knife with Rome! Peace and friendship with Islam!": this was the feeling, this was the act, of that great free spirit, that genius among German emperors, Frederick II. What! must a German first be a genius, a free spirit, before he can feel decently? I can't make out how a German could ever feel Christian. . . .

This raises several questions that I'd like to pose to KTL.

A. What earns Islam this praise from Nietzche? Is this necessarily a positive thing?

B. Is Islam combatible with will to power?

C. Is the will to power compatible with Islam, from the perspective of an insider. An outsider?

D. Overall, are Nietzche's philosophies compatible with 1)The Koran, 2) Islam as idealized, 3) Islam as practiced and 4) Muslims?

Please explain your answers. I'll give my answers later. If you need reference material, all of Nietzche's material is available online. The Antichrist, which these passages are taken from, is a short book that can be skimmed to get the gist of it. If you want information on the will to power, check Twighlight of the Idols.

LORD NOSE
01-10-2010, 03:45 PM
deep - up

Ciaran
01-10-2010, 06:40 PM
As a quick answer to the first question

I know that Nietzche dispised the idea of humanity looking 'up' to an impossible being in the sky for its answears, security etc. and he instead wanted humanity to look 'down' to the earth, to the reality and world around us. An idea which makes up the major theme of 'thus spake zarathusta'

So from this, you could argue that Nietzsche is at least giving a degree of praise to Islam over Christianity as it is more grounded in reality and humans rather than some impossibly higher beings, for example, how in Islamic teaching jesus is acknowledged as a man.

- 'Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men' -




i dont have a huge knowledge of Islam, and the Koran etc so i wouldnt feel comfortable trying to answer the rest of your questions really, but would be interested to hear what you had to say.

One thing i do draw parrallels with is Nietzche and the N.G.E, Gods on earth guys, im not a huge fan of religion but their arm-leg-leg-arm-head deal at least appears to praise humanity for what we are, and our potential, again grounded in nature rather than the heavens above.

SKAMPOE
01-11-2010, 03:43 PM
there will be no peace on the earth untill every one lives islam

LORD NOSE
01-11-2010, 04:09 PM
As a quick answer to the first question

I know that Nietzche dispised the idea of humanity looking 'up' to an impossible being in the sky for its answears, security etc. and he instead wanted humanity to look 'down' to the earth, to the reality and world around us. An idea which makes up the major theme of 'thus spake zarathusta'

So from this, you could argue that Nietzsche is at least giving a degree of praise to Islam over Christianity as it is more grounded in reality and humans rather than some impossibly higher beings, for example, how in Islamic teaching jesus is acknowledged as a man.

- 'Islam at least assumes that it is dealing with men' -




i dont have a huge knowledge of Islam, and the Koran etc so i wouldnt feel comfortable trying to answer the rest of your questions really, but would be interested to hear what you had to say.

One thing i do draw parrallels with is Nietzche and the N.G.E, Gods on earth guys, im not a huge fan of religion but their arm-leg-leg-arm-head deal at least appears to praise humanity for what we are, and our potential, again grounded in nature rather than the heavens above.



many Muslims rely on an invisible useen force they BELIEVE in, and are just as fanatical about their BELIEFS as the average Christian - They both fear a Hell fire that they BELIEVE they will go to if they don't please their god thoroughly -


Labeling the unbelievers as sinners and infidels who deserve to be stoned to death on earth, then after death, burnt to death for ever, over and over again - such a place like that may or may not exist - the books that they rely on for their creation story and torture chamber of fire,are held as the very words of this ONE that can send you to such a place -


and while they hurt those who they label as sinners and infidels, their fear of the things that they believe but do not understand, is causing them to be sinners and infidels -

Ciaran
01-11-2010, 05:20 PM
yea i realise that both religions are based on a higher unseen being in control, but i think nietzches semi praise of Islam could be based on Islam putting more emphasis on the human race itself and the idea that every man must bear and pay for his or her own sins.
Islam does not teach the chrisitian notion of humans being born into an original sin, that jesus died for.

'Christians believe that man had no ability to atone for his sins. Christians believe that we are hopelessly lost except for the immeasurable gift of God's grace, which is the only means of salvation. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8). '



this idea of an enforced guilt or uncleanliness is one of Nietzches main problems with christianity - the idea that it is holding us back as a race.

LORD NOSE
01-11-2010, 05:29 PM
looks like the cliche

"just believe and you'll be saved"

is a trick

Ciaran
01-12-2010, 08:53 PM
egar to hear what thread starter has to say, Nietzche is very interesting!

SKAMPOE
01-12-2010, 09:02 PM
islam is the only truth, once every one converts ''for lack of a better word'' to islam, there will never be peace on earth, if every one was islamic there world will be like heaven, the picture christians paint of heave is what earth will be like when islam dominates over every one, its the only truth..

zooruka
01-12-2010, 09:17 PM
islam is the only truth, once every one converts ''for lack of a better word'' to islam, there will never be peace on earth, if every one was islamic there world will be like heaven, the picture christians paint of heave is what earth will be like when islam dominates over every one, its the only truth..


hahahahahahahahahaha

I will pray for you skampoe !!!!!!!!!!


peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 10:30 PM
islam is the only truth, once every one converts ''for lack of a better word'' to islam, there will never be peace on earth, if every one was islamic there world will be like heaven, the picture christians paint of heave is what earth will be like when islam dominates over every one, its the only truth..

true - but not the religion of Islam

True Islam will have this effect

zooruka
01-12-2010, 10:36 PM
true - but not the religion of Islam

True Islam will have this effect


Any islam is wickedness kid.

:mmmyah:

peace be with you !

LORD NOSE
01-12-2010, 10:53 PM
you told us that already

shut up yo


your blindness and close mindedness is an indication that the understanding you have of Christianity is straight from the devil - that's fact


that man in your sig is the devil - that is the image of the beasts - that's fact

Wu Tang Embraces Islam -


the light of Islam attracts you to it - you love Islamic Spittin MCs


go here


http://www.christianforums.com/ and leave us alone yo -


you are becoming annoying with that bullshit

Ciaran
01-12-2010, 11:42 PM
so back to nietzche.....

TheBoarzHeadBoy
01-13-2010, 01:14 PM
You're being a dumb ass Zooruka, Sunny said:

"true - but not the religion of Islam

True Islam will have this effect"

He means that if everyone followed God we'd have peace, not that the religion of Islam is perfect, but Islam as in serving god would lead to peace.

DrunkenMasta303
01-13-2010, 02:04 PM
i just google pic searched the word ''islam" (with filters turned off)...i had to click until page 21 to find a peaceful picture,

page 21

pro.Graveface
01-13-2010, 02:31 PM
best belief in self mastery

pro.Graveface
01-13-2010, 02:32 PM
i just google pic searched the word ''islam" (with filters turned off)...i had to click until page 21 to find a peaceful picture,

page 21

thats insane!!

(in a negativ way)

Ninja
01-13-2010, 02:36 PM
this is such a depp topic.. just dont know where to start!

Ninja
01-13-2010, 02:41 PM
Delving deeper into the person Dajjal.

There are three aspects of Dajjal:

1. The individual

2. A world wide social and cultural phenomenon

3. An unseen force.


Ubadah ibn Saamit radiyallahu anhu narrates that the Last Prophet (peace & blessings be upon him) said, I have explained Dajjal to you, but I fear that you might not have understood. Maseeh-ud-Dajjal will be short and his legs will be crooked. The hair on his head will be extremely twisted. He will have one eye, while his other eye will be flat. It will be neither deep, nor protruding.

No doubt, the prophet Muhammad on whom be peace was clearly talking about a person.
But (for me) the origin of Dajjal is somewhat unclear.

In one hadith it is mentioned that Dajjal is chained somewere on an island and in another hadith it is mentioned that he will be born into this world by jewish parents. Some questions arise. Does the hadith 1 day like a week include his birth and the time to reach a certain age or does it mean that this "day like week" will start when he will take power as an adult and rule the world from jerusalem? Was the chained on an island part before his manifestation and birth into this world? I understand we are dealing with the subject of time and dimensions here. I'm just trying to understand.
[edit] Actually i made a mistake, he will be in our dimension of time the remaining days, like the hadith mentions. So 40-3 (days like a year, month, week), so 37, 24 hour days

He was seen by people with their physical eyes chained on that island. He was around in a day like a year but still not in our dimension of time, so i guess when he revealed himself to the people who saw him on that island he made a jump into the third dimensions, like the Jinn sometimes do. To proof what? In one way he warned the prophet on whom be peace and his followers about his "soon to come" debute. So actually he helped us out and warned us to stay away from him and that we should follow the prophet Muhammad on whom be peace. Isn't that amazing? I remember the topic started by brother Geert about should we hate the Dajjal. In this case the Dajjal didn't came with a smile but with a warning and told that it is better for us if we followed the prophet saws.

Again, im just trying to understand.
We really should follow his (dajjal's) advice on this. He adviced us to follow the prophet Muhammad on whom be peace and thus follow the Qur'an the Sunnah. If we do this we screen ourselves from his fitnah. He isn't the enemy afterall, or is he? Ofcourse he is, but he was created to fool the people into thinking that he is the masih. And we know better, alhamdullilah.
And Allah knows best.

peace!