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LHX
08-23-2006, 04:07 PM
Get close.

Give it a little nibble on the ear lobe.

Let it come close.

Let it think it can get you.

Write ballads for your enemy.

Let it think that you don't know what's going on.

And when your enemy eventually fucks up (which it will), don't laugh at it.

Just pick your enemy up and show it the right way.

Maybe give it a familiar embrace.

Repeat as necessary.

JASPER
08-23-2006, 04:09 PM
Love your rapist
Love your murderer
Love your slavemaster

Love him to death.

Gawd
08-23-2006, 04:13 PM
Kill your enemy before he kills you.
Destroy his village or town before he destroys yours.
Shoot 1st before your enemy can react.
Bullets change Governments and ppl. Words do not.

LHX
08-23-2006, 04:28 PM
Kill your enemy before he kills you.
Destroy his village or town before he destroys yours.
Shoot 1st before your enemy can react.
Bullets change Governments and ppl. Words do not.
you may very well be the most paranoid person i have ever come across in my life

LHX
08-23-2006, 04:28 PM
Love your rapist
Love your murderer
Love your slavemaster

Love him to death.

what other choice do you have?

JASPER
08-23-2006, 04:35 PM
Hiring a crew of hoodlums to beat you up over a shitty messageboard thread.

Gawd
08-23-2006, 04:35 PM
you may very well be the most paranoid person i have ever come across in my life


You may be the most confused person i have ever come accross in my life.

Gawd
08-23-2006, 04:36 PM
what other choice do you have?
murder, escape....but since there are no slave masters then huh, guess it dont matter...

LHX
08-23-2006, 04:43 PM
murder, escape....but since there are no slave masters then huh, guess it dont matter...
are you calling me a slave master?

LHX
08-23-2006, 04:45 PM
Hiring a crew of hoodlums to beat you up over a shitty messageboard thread.
thats what im saying

that course of action accomplishes approximately nothing




the shitty threads will never end


maybe you r mad because sometimes i can get so poetic

Gawd
08-23-2006, 04:56 PM
are you calling me a slave master?

No....Im not a racist pos like most of the vistors in KNL

JASPER
08-23-2006, 05:24 PM
thats what im saying

that course of action accomplishes approximately nothing




the shitty threads will never end


maybe you r mad because sometimes i can get so poeticPoetic isn't the word I would use, but I'd hate to see you get beaten up for talking utter non sense.

LHX
08-23-2006, 05:27 PM
No....Im not a racist pos like most of the vistors in KNL
i can vouch for that

you arent racist

but still, maybe a bit paranoid

LHX
08-23-2006, 05:28 PM
Poetic isn't the word I would use, but I'd hate to see you get beaten up for talking utter non sense.
you say such sweet things

Gawd
08-23-2006, 05:33 PM
i can vouch for that

you arent racist

but still, maybe a bit paranoid

Owning a large cache of weapons make me paranoid? or Smart?

JASPER
08-23-2006, 05:37 PM
You're not my enemy, but I still love you, regardless of your vague not so down-to-earth yip yap. I expect you to feel the same way about me no matter how unintellectual, yokelish and simplistic my comments may be.

LHX
08-23-2006, 07:00 PM
Owning a large cache of weapons make me paranoid? or Smart?
paranoid

Gawd
08-23-2006, 07:03 PM
paranoid

explain...

LHX
08-23-2006, 07:06 PM
You're not my enemy, but I still love you, regardless of your vague not so down-to-earth yip yap. I expect you to feel the same way about me no matter how unintellectual, yokelish and simplistic my comments may be.

No doubt I feel the same way.

My vague not-so-down-to-earth yip yap always comes after ive been reading too much taoism again.


Maybe i will watch some TV and try to get back into the right state of mind.




I love edbigghead too, and he is not my enemy.

LHX
08-23-2006, 07:09 PM
explain...
how far do you think weapons can possibly take you?

read some sun tzu or something

http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html

there are things in this universe that weapons cant kill


im not saying youre wrong, im just saying that it might be worthwhile investigating some alternate points of view and put the hammers down

Gawd
08-23-2006, 07:21 PM
how far do you think weapons can possibly take you?

read some sun tzu or something

http://www.sonshi.com/learn.html

there are things in this universe that weapons cant kill


im not saying youre wrong, im just saying that it might be worthwhile investigating some alternate points of view and put the hammers down
Weapons can kill anything that has flesh.....

LHX
08-23-2006, 07:23 PM
Weapons can kill anything that has flesh.....
man

didnt you see V for Vendetta?


how attached are you to your flesh?

nobody else gives a shit about it

Gawd
08-23-2006, 07:31 PM
man

didnt you see V for Vendetta?


how attached are you to your flesh?

nobody else gives a shit about it


Honestly d00d...your fuxing stoopid.

My bullets can kill anything that bleeds. They can kill anything that shits. Do you think I care about your soul? Or supernatural unproven things? NO.

The problem with you is that you believe everything that you read.

JASPER
08-23-2006, 07:34 PM
No doubt I feel the same way.

My vague not-so-down-to-earth yip yap always comes after ive been reading too much taoism again.


Maybe i will watch some TV and try to get back into the right state of mind.




I love edbigghead too, and he is not my enemy.My unsophisticated crudeness is a product of watching distubering pictures and drinking battery acid. Alkine power and cold showers, that's what my mom always says.

http://img.ircimages.com/ircimages/d/1/d14684dc3ffc009471812c65542723e8.jpg

LHX
08-23-2006, 07:58 PM
Honestly d00d...your fuxing stoopid.

My bullets can kill anything that bleeds. They can kill anything that shits. Do you think I care about your soul? Or supernatural unproven things? NO.

The problem with you is that you believe everything that you read.
what the hell is a spirit?

i dont believe anything i read

not even my own posts



i have other problems





i still dont see what problems killing things can solve

you dont got me convinced

Gawd
08-23-2006, 08:05 PM
what the hell is a spirit?

i dont believe anything i read

not even my own posts



i have other problems





i still dont see what problems killing things can solve

you dont got me convinced

No point in talking further with you.

JASPER
08-23-2006, 08:06 PM
Talking never solved anything...

hectis
08-23-2006, 08:08 PM
Get close.

Give it a little nibble on the ear lobe.

Let it come close.

Let it think it can get you.

Write ballads for your enemy.

Let it think that you don't know what's going on.

And when your enemy eventually fucks up (which it will), don't laugh at it.

Just pick your enemy up and show it the right way.

Maybe give it a familiar embrace.

Repeat as necessary.

sometimes it is very hard to do but I agree

Gawd
08-23-2006, 08:09 PM
Talking never solved anything...

correct

LHX
08-23-2006, 08:57 PM
Talking never solved anything...
nothing ever gets solved

LHX
08-23-2006, 08:59 PM
No point in talking further with you.
i guess there is no point

damn yo

we agree

monumental

maestro wooz
08-23-2006, 09:55 PM
what is luhhhuv?

nah dont love your enemy, respect them and respect that they act out against you only because they are confused, ignorant, silly, or anything else. Know that they need your help and when theyre down and willing to accept your help, give it cause, they need it. But dont love 'em, theyre idiots.

The Wizzard
08-26-2006, 03:09 AM
Love your enemy, because in the end all this shit in this world, we don't know how it ends up, if it leads to anything or nothings. but being happy and at one with yourself is the most important thing to me, because that is all there is on this earth, you.
Loveing your enemy people find difficult because there is so much harm and terror in the world, but people who love everyone regardless are those that are most happy and most wise. I had a teacher in high school who was raped and she told me she loved he rapist and i thought that was fucked up. but she told me if she spent the rest of her life hating the man that raped her that she would always be unhappy because hate or anger or negativity will always bring you down. thats why kids living against the law are all miserable, you might not think it but if you ever get to know them, they all miserable as fuck.

negative thoughts and negative actions will never let you acheive happiness.

"He whose heart is in the smallest degree set upon Goodness will dislike no one."

Confucianism. Analects 4.3-4

What kind of love is this that to another can shift? Says Nanak, True lovers are those who are forever absorbed in the Beloved. Whoever discriminates between treatment held good or bad, Is not a true lover--he rather is caught in calculations.

Sikhism. Adi Granth, Asa-ki-Var, M.2, p. 474

The sage has no fixed [personal] ideas.
He regards the people's ideas as his own.
I treat those who are good with goodness,
And I also treat those who are not good with goodness.
Thus goodness is attained.

I am honest with those who are honest,
And I am also honest with those who are dishonest.
Thus honesty is attained.

Taoism. Tao Te Ching 49

A superior being does not render evil for evil; this is a maxim one should observe; the ornament of virtuous persons is their conduct. One should never harm the wicked or the good or even criminals meriting death. A noble soul will ever exercise compassion even towards those who enjoy injuring others or those of cruel deeds when they are actually committing them--for who is without fault?

Hinduism. Ramayana, Yuddha Kanda 115

But none is granted it save those who are steadfast, and none is granted it save a person of great good fortune.

Islam. Qur'an 41.34-35

LORD NOSE
12-29-2009, 04:49 PM
Pssss..


Way up

Mumm Ra
12-29-2009, 05:32 PM
My vague not-so-down-to-earth yip yap always comes after ive been reading too much taoism again.


Maybe i will watch some TV and try to get back into the right state of mind.
haha
LHX humor

Urban_Journalz
12-30-2009, 08:29 AM
I love my enemies to the extent that I appreciate why they exist. My enemy exists to test my courage and my skill. So, esentially, I can smile at him before I turn his brains into tapioca. There should be no pleasure in the transition (from brain to tapioca) though. This because, above all else, a life is being taken. A regard for life should be apparent in all walks of life, even war. This is why toruring is so cruel. If you have no other choice and this person or group of persons is threatening you, then you have to defend you and yours. Exterminate them. However, do it quickly and also give them a proper burial. This could be viewed as loving one's enemy also.

LORD NOSE
12-30-2009, 11:22 AM
misunderstandings are the enemy

V4D3R
12-30-2009, 12:42 PM
Fear is honestly the true enemy. We fear from misunderstandings and that leads to the need to think attack, defend, control...

Love is the opposite. And we need both to understand the other - DUAT.
When somebody turns your paradigm upside down you fear them. When u don't understand a culture you fear them.

Christianity, Judaism, and Islam... All fear based religions...taking us away from the truth and fact that we all one and a part of love...love is the Creator of all. But for love to know itself ( ourselves ) we need fear and Hitler's and enemies.

What is/feels worse physical pain or emotional pain?

LORD NOSE
05-06-2010, 07:05 PM
up

D.projectile
09-14-2012, 11:24 AM
can hate exist without an ego?

D.projectile
09-14-2012, 11:25 AM
Fear is honestly the true enemy. We fear from misunderstandings and that leads to the need to think attack, defend, control..

yyh. the deadliest actions were fuelled by it

LORD NOSE
09-14-2012, 02:37 PM
how ironic

D.projectile
09-14-2012, 03:00 PM
its mad alie? throughout high school i tried to mask my fear by doing da most ridiculous shit..built i false persona..in the end it fucked me n ir still does lol

couldnt escape the repercussions. did some pathetic shit after those days too. the shame humbled me n now i wanna hand in my lower

rakimkoolgrapwutang
09-14-2012, 03:30 PM
jesus loved his enemies cuz he was a masochist. thats why he often had dreams of being tortured on a cross.

its also why christians say things like 'the first shall be last and the last shall be first' and they like the meek the poor and suffering compared to the well off and happy. and they make up stories of how we should suffer on earth cuz our rewards in heaven. Paul even tells us to carry our cross and to carry burdens. christians tell us the world is a bad and lowly place cuz they want the earth to be bad. this has made the world bad. u often see how christians proclaim that theyre suffering for the will of God.

in short christianity is a masochistic religion.

D.projectile
09-15-2012, 07:38 AM
jesus loved his enemies cuz he was a masochist. thats why he often had dreams of being tortured on a cross.

its also why christians say things like 'the first shall be last and the last shall be first' and they like the meek the poor and suffering compared to the well off and happy. and they make up stories of how we should suffer on earth cuz our rewards in heaven. Paul even tells us to carry our cross and to carry burdens. christians tell us the world is a bad and lowly place cuz they want the earth to be bad. this has made the world bad. u often see how christians proclaim that theyre suffering for the will of God.

in short christianity is a masochistic religion.

i feel what your saying..i think masochism is pushed on us and we run with it in the most subtle of ways too. the pleasure we seek n have been taught to slowly does us in. few love themselves. many want a way out of bondage and feel unworthy of finding one.

peeps should want the best for themselves

imo regardless of whatever..no one should allow another person to just take them off the planet..especially when you have a better relationship with the natural planet. at the same time though i'd say preserving the other persons life in the process of defending yourself would be the best outcome....however this is war..ultimately within the self

laying your cards on the table and saying this is me and that is you is important.
thats why pretending to save face be a madness

thats why i reckon separation is ethical when your stepping on eachothers toes

when its versus mode though...it should be stated..no underhand business
but this is not how things are done by most anymore

and you can still love ur enemies and punish them. i feel you need to earn the right to punish. those with a taste for punishing need to rid themselves of that before being allowed to do so

THE W
09-15-2012, 08:10 AM
jesus loved his enemies cuz he was a masochist. thats why he often had dreams of being tortured on a cross.

its also why christians say things like 'the first shall be last and the last shall be first' and they like the meek the poor and suffering compared to the well off and happy. and they make up stories of how we should suffer on earth cuz our rewards in heaven. Paul even tells us to carry our cross and to carry burdens. christians tell us the world is a bad and lowly place cuz they want the earth to be bad. this has made the world bad. u often see how christians proclaim that theyre suffering for the will of God.

in short christianity is a masochistic religion.
this has nothing to do with the subject at all.

are you making up a new religion or something?

D.projectile
09-15-2012, 08:46 AM
this has nothing to do with the subject at all.

are you making up a new religion or something?

i think it does ..he's kinda pointing to perception as being the enemy
a lot do fall victim to misinterpretations like these

rakimkoolgrapwutang
09-15-2012, 11:08 AM
this has nothing to do with the subject at all.

are you making up a new religion or something?

jesus said 'love ur enemies'.

the subject is that people should love their enemies.

so i was saying why jesus said it.

i dont believe in religion. if ive got 2 b labelled something i guess im a nihilist.

Urban_Journalz
09-15-2012, 06:10 PM
I have a great amount of love for my enemies because they continuously push me to become better than what I am. They are the stone that I sharpen my blade against. What you LHX seem to be saying is, not so much to love your enemy, but rather, never retaliate against them. In which case I'd have to disagree because where I'm from and where I've lived, there is always an element around that seeks to crush who and what they believe to be weaker than they are for no other reason than the fact that they are seeking to flex their own muscle.

Tyrants, if you will. I attack the same way I'm attacked. When they stop, I stop, if it suits my needs. Even when I seemingly don't respond, it's only to let the enemy know that I decide when they matter. War and Peace are two sides of the same coin. Too much patience is the mark of a coward. Too much aggression is the mark of a tyrant. If you're advising us to let people get away with the idiotic shit that they orchestrate and have it NOT be a stratagem of war, I'd have to say that you have no understanding of the way this Universe operates.

Peace

THE W
09-15-2012, 08:46 PM
jesus said 'love ur enemies'.

the subject is that people should love their enemies.

so i was saying why jesus said it.

i dont believe in religion. if ive got 2 b labelled something i guess im a nihilist.
well thats not why he said it and i dont see where masochism fits into this?

rakimkoolgrapwutang
09-16-2012, 04:22 PM
well thats not why he said it and i dont see where masochism fits into this?

masochism is when people love pain inflicted on themselves.

people who turn the other cheek will usually have self esteem issues or be masochistic.

THE W
09-16-2012, 08:03 PM
masochism is when people love pain inflicted on themselves.

people who turn the other cheek will usually have self esteem issues or be masochistic.
masochism is when receiving pain is the end goal. you inflict pain on yourself for the purpose of feeling pain. jesus didnt die on the cross because he loves pain and God didnt send his son to be a sacrificed because he wanted to see someone get tortured.

so again, i dont see how masochism fits here?

diggy
09-16-2012, 08:55 PM
Many of us blacks have been lovin the enemy. Look how we turned out!

THE W
09-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Many of us blacks have been lovin the enemy. Look how we turned out!
what do you mean?

diggy
09-16-2012, 10:53 PM
Love your enemy - a teaching of christianity - used to oppress

Loving the enemy who hurts the one who loves it, is hatred of self.

Who is the enemy ? - oppressors, propagandists, hiders of the true history

Face of the Golden Falcon
09-17-2012, 12:19 AM
Loving ones enemy can only be detrimental if there isn't a proper understanding of what love is. In which case it isn't really loving ones enemy.

THE W
09-17-2012, 08:48 AM
Love your enemy - a teaching of christianity - used to oppress

Loving the enemy who hurts the one who loves it, is hatred of self.

Who is the enemy ? - oppressors, propagandists, hiders of the true history
in what ways has "love your enemy" been used to oppress blacks?

rakimkoolgrapwutang
09-17-2012, 01:13 PM
masochism is when receiving pain is the end goal. you inflict pain on yourself for the purpose of feeling pain. jesus didnt die on the cross because he loves pain and God didnt send his son to be a sacrificed because he wanted to see someone get tortured.

so again, i dont see how masochism fits here?

an omnipotent omniscient god cant find a better way than torturing himself?

look at christainity theres always been a love 4 pain. they love martyrs and saints who have the most cruel things done to them. Paul tells us to be slaves 4 god.

they tell us we have to suffer cuz this world is horrible.

the most important thing to christainity is sacrifice. its not even what the sacrifice accompolishes. more emphasis is put on jesus' death and not his resurrection.

the height of this christain self torture can b seen when monks used to whip thmselves for jesus.

surely all powerful all knowing jesus can accompolish anything without pain?

THE W
09-17-2012, 02:31 PM
again, there's nothing in scripture that shows people making sacrifices for the sake of feeling pain. they do it because its part of the process of reaching whatever goal they're trying to accomplish.

people who have children, start businesses, play sports, make tons of sacrifices and go through a lot of pain to be the best parent, business owner, and athlete they can be.

people unwilling to make sacrifices and who try to avoid all pain achieve nothing. christian or not. these people are described as cowards.

rakimkoolgrapwutang
09-17-2012, 02:42 PM
again, there's nothing in scripture that shows people making sacrifices for the sake of feeling pain. they do it because its part of the process of reaching whatever goal they're trying to accomplish.

people who have children, start businesses, play sports, make tons of sacrifices and go through a lot of pain to be the best parent, business owner, and athlete they can be.

people unwilling to make sacrifices and who try to avoid all pain achieve nothing. christian or not. these people are described as cowards.

but why did jesus need to torture himself to get his goal. hes almighty he could have achieved it other ways.

what about medieval christain monks who loved self torture and usually whipped themselves which is also when there was a deep obsession with martyrs.

and christains today even though they dont torture themselves anymore. they usually have self esteem issues. often repeating over and over again how theyre unworthy and sinners.

its a state of decadence by the self whether through self harming for God or constantly saying ur unworthy and a terrible person and sinner.

and all this is seen in 'love ur enemy'.

again i repeat if jesus was all powerful why did he choose the road of torture.

THE W
09-17-2012, 03:23 PM
your middle statements are completely untrue. nothing in the bible says you must inflict pain on yourself. those monks made up their own religion apart from the truth of God's word.

before a holy and sinless God we ARE unworthy and sinners. before a holy and sinless God we are worthy of nothing but death. but because God loved us and valued a relationship with us so highly sent his son as a sacrifice for the sins of man in order to restore the relationship God had with man before the sin of adam.

on top of all this your middle statements have absolutely nothing to do with "love your enemy". you've apparently moved on to something else.

as for your question, Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross because this was the will of the Father and he wasnt going to disobey his Father because thats what adam did and man was cursed and separated from God because of it.

rakimkoolgrapwutang
09-17-2012, 03:45 PM
your middle statements are completely untrue. nothing in the bible says you must inflict pain on yourself. those monks made up their own religion apart from the truth of God's word.

before a holy and sinless God we ARE unworthy and sinners. before a holy and sinless God we are worthy of nothing but death. but because God loved us and valued a relationship with us so highly sent his son as a sacrifice for the sins of man in order to restore the relationship God had with man before the sin of adam.

on top of all this your middle statements have absolutely nothing to do with "love your enemy". you've apparently moved on to something else.

as for your question, Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross because this was the will of the Father and he wasnt going to disobey his Father because thats what adam did and man was cursed and separated from God because of it.

never said the bible said that. but the priests did that cuz it was the spirit of christianity of that time. it was that deep feeling of feeling such contempt 4 urself that u have to express it through self harm.

just cuz my morals r different from gods doesnt mean nothing. in fact i find gods morals to be wrong (which is an opinion). he kills every 1st son of Egypt not cuz of what they did but cuz of their parents. i find that sick and disgusting. all moral codes are opinions and subjective and gods isnt somehow objectiveor true or absolute. so no were not unworthy unless we tell ourselves we are. and that is having low self esteem. to think so low of urself that u drop ur own personal morals in favour of someone elses whether its a God or god or supernatural being or other mans isnt healthy. its related to self loathing. the idea that ur such a terrible person that u have to lose/kill/sacrifice/4get urself in order to transfer to that other person. and where will that get us. every1 being the same person with the same morals. we lose our individuality.

and how does God sacrificing Jesus help destroy our sins. how does that actually help.

i do believe weve moved on from 'love ur enemy' onto a different subject. but it was related cuz it was having so low self esteem that u would turn ur cheek to let ur own enemy hit you across the cheek. in other words to let the enemy have control of ur body.

but why did God want Jesus to be sacrificed on the cross. God is all powerful so he could get rid of sin with a click of his finger but he placed his son on a cross. there must have obviously been some desire for him to put his son on a cross instead of finding an alternative method.

THE W
09-17-2012, 07:04 PM
1. good, so since we understand the word of God never ordained such actions than we must conclude that christianity had nothing to do with those actions.

2. its like the pot complaining to the potter that he uses it for trash instead of a flower pot. you or my opinion of God's sovereign choice couldnt be more irrelevent. God the creater can do as he pleases with what he has created. keep in mind that he could've just destroyed us, wiped every one of us out but he chose to seek after us in order to restore the relationship he had at first. he loved us even when we turned our backs on him and said he doesnt exist. if you cant except God's authority and sovereignty over his own creation thats a "you" problem.

3. God dying on the cross for our sins allowed us to have full access to God through christ. we all now have access to the holy of holies that only certain priests had during the old covanent. the relationship that God had with adam before the fall has now been restored as all sin was put on christ on the cross. believers in christ can now have intimate relationship with God the Father.

does it eliminate man desire to sin? no. people still choose sin anyway, but some do not and follow christ. for those who do not they now have full access to God through christ.

4. we would have to look at why God chose to institute a covenant where the blood of certain animals was used on the holy alter for atonement for sin.

in secular society if you commit a crime there is punishment for it. there are consequences for wrong actions. you go to jail, you get grounded, you lose certain privilages, you pay fines. you dont just get off scott free like nothing happened. you must pay your debt to society.

in the same way man had sinned before God and had to pay their debt to God so God in establishing a covenant with the israelites coming out of egypt he ordained blood sacrifices for sin atonement. this is the way GoD decreed that man would pay their debt to him for their sins.

God grew tired of this as he saw that man's hearts were corrupt. they followed all the rules and regulations but their hearts were far from God.

what these people were trying to wrongfully establish was what some like to call "fire insurance". they dont give a crap about God in reality but they'll follow the rules so theyi can be on God's good side. God detested this condition of their hearts and expressed as much in isaiah chapter 1.

so jesus comes into the picture. now understand that the new covenant in christ doesnt erase the old covenant of moses(matthew 5:17-20), it just makes it obsolete. its still there, but we dont have to live by it because of the new covanent of grace.

Acts 13:38-39; hebrews 9:11-28; hebrews 10:1-18

God ordained that Jesus would be sacrificed on the cross keeping with the law of moses which required blood sacrifices for the atonement of sins. Jesuss sacrifice was the complete and final atonement for all of man's sin giving us the access to God that adam had in the garden of eden before the fall of man.

this is why Jesus was sacrificed.

rakimkoolgrapwutang
10-01-2012, 02:59 PM
1. good, so since we understand the word of God never ordained such actions than we must conclude that christianity had nothing to do with those actions.

2. its like the pot complaining to the potter that he uses it for trash instead of a flower pot. you or my opinion of God's sovereign choice couldnt be more irrelevent. God the creater can do as he pleases with what he has created. keep in mind that he could've just destroyed us, wiped every one of us out but he chose to seek after us in order to restore the relationship he had at first. he loved us even when we turned our backs on him and said he doesnt exist. if you cant except God's authority and sovereignty over his own creation thats a "you" problem.

3. God dying on the cross for our sins allowed us to have full access to God through christ. we all now have access to the holy of holies that only certain priests had during the old covanent. the relationship that God had with adam before the fall has now been restored as all sin was put on christ on the cross. believers in christ can now have intimate relationship with God the Father.

does it eliminate man desire to sin? no. people still choose sin anyway, but some do not and follow christ. for those who do not they now have full access to God through christ.

4. we would have to look at why God chose to institute a covenant where the blood of certain animals was used on the holy alter for atonement for sin.

in secular society if you commit a crime there is punishment for it. there are consequences for wrong actions. you go to jail, you get grounded, you lose certain privilages, you pay fines. you dont just get off scott free like nothing happened. you must pay your debt to society.

in the same way man had sinned before God and had to pay their debt to God so God in establishing a covenant with the israelites coming out of egypt he ordained blood sacrifices for sin atonement. this is the way GoD decreed that man would pay their debt to him for their sins.

God grew tired of this as he saw that man's hearts were corrupt. they followed all the rules and regulations but their hearts were far from God.

what these people were trying to wrongfully establish was what some like to call "fire insurance". they dont give a crap about God in reality but they'll follow the rules so theyi can be on God's good side. God detested this condition of their hearts and expressed as much in isaiah chapter 1.

so jesus comes into the picture. now understand that the new covenant in christ doesnt erase the old covenant of moses(matthew 5:17-20), it just makes it obsolete. its still there, but we dont have to live by it because of the new covanent of grace.

Acts 13:38-39; hebrews 9:11-28; hebrews 10:1-18

God ordained that Jesus would be sacrificed on the cross keeping with the law of moses which required blood sacrifices for the atonement of sins. Jesuss sacrifice was the complete and final atonement for all of man's sin giving us the access to God that adam had in the garden of eden before the fall of man.

this is why Jesus was sacrificed.


1 the word of god tells us that were slaves to god and that were pathetic people who are so bad we must forget all our being and our consciousness and become like god.

this is the same nature in which people whip themselves cuz of self loathing. u can see how self harm came about.

2 no its like a pot not living its full poential just cuz its creator told him not to. i was created from my mm and dad but they cant do anything they want with me. its wrong. plus ur pot allegory is not a good example cuz pots dont have consciousness. people do. if parents eat their babies is that ok. u can see where the logic breaks down. parents dont have full control of their children cuz if they did then their children will not advance. only excessively vain parents who always wanna b praised claim to have full control of their creations. but then again god is excessively vain.

3 theres a gap in ur logic i'll show it in the penultimate sentence 'no. people still choose sin anyway, but some do not and follow christ.' i know christains who have lied and im guessing that lying is sinning so are they not sinning while following christ.

4 'in secular society if you commit a crime there is punishment for it.' true but what kinda perverse society punishs a crime by letting the criminal go off free and instead sacrifices the most righteous man. punishing the innocent for the guilty is a very perverse state of justice.

so then the ominpotent god who can destroy sin at the click of a finger doesnt do that but instead does what u say

'God ordained that Jesus would be sacrificed on the cross keeping with the law of moses which required blood sacrifices for the atonement of sins.'

but why does god do this instead of just clicking his fingers. or is it cuz the irony of maintaining a rule of the obselete old convenant to create the new convenant or some parallel structure that he finds deeply satisfying. in short a piece of art or literary device.

this isnt unusual 4 an excessively vain god always seeking praise that hed murder his own 100% sinless son just for his piece of art. does this not remind u a bit of John Doe in 'se7en'.

if u try and say that killing jesus was the only way to get rid of sin then youd be rejecting gods omnipotence.

also this metaphor might go deeper than u think.

'Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him. ' John 3:14

'The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live."' Numbers 21:8

D.projectile
10-02-2012, 06:26 AM
before a holy and sinless God we ARE unworthy and sinners. before a holy and sinless God we are worthy of nothing but death. but because God loved us and valued a relationship with us so highly sent his son as a sacrifice for the sins of man in order to restore the relationship God had with man before the sin of adam.



i hear u g but thats just one way of putting it..some are deterred by such wording

the message can be delivered with in a much plainer way imo altho if we meet at the same point we'll all have the same undastandin