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The_Truth
09-25-2006, 10:01 PM
I firmly believe that the Quran is the single most harmful text to ever be penned, and that Muhumad has caused more damage to the human race than any other person before or after him. I think the decision by so many people to follow and live by such nonsensical garbage is possibly the single most clear indication of the dependent nature of humans, and their desire and/or need to be controlled. This book constantly drills into the readers the idea that they should fear Allah. The acceptance of such an absurd notion creates insecurity and conflict, along with just about every negative emotion you can name. I suppose the idea of creating an accepting God that would encourage peace, unity and happiness didnít really fit Muhumadís regime. Then weíre told that Allah needs us to constantly kiss his ass or else Heíll get upset and make us burn in His fire for eternity. I guess Allah is a bitter, insecure and judgemental motherfucker then. Personally I wouldnít really wish to praise a God who created me to follow His wishes and worship Him to boost his ego and help Him deal with His insecurities. But hey, weíre all different.

I think it is particularly absurd that women should follow such blatantly sexist material. The book blatantly states that men are superior to women, and continually makes references that put women in the position of accepting the control of men and conforming to their wishes. I mean who would have thought God to be sexist? Quite a revelation that one is. I believe this is sometimes defended by adherents to Islam by pointing out that the book is rather favourable towards women considering their position in society at the time that it was written. I suppose Allah chose to share his eternal word based on the short era in which the prophet Muhumad lived. That makes sense.

Hitler, Stalin, Hussein etc, were all responsible for a lot of deaths at one timeÖso what? Muhumad is responsible for writing a book that causes so many people to live in unwarranted fear, suppressing their natural desires and instincts for no excusable reason, and creating confused minds who are unaccepting of anybody who does not adhere to this way of life, and will go to extreme measures to demonstrate this. His words have been doing this for generations and will continue to do so for future generations.

Personally I think the general concept of religion is absurd, and does a whole lot more damage than good, but most religions still have some positive and guiding teachings. Islam seems only to drill into people the same harmful concepts over and over.

Discuss.

Ultimate Fist
09-25-2006, 11:45 PM
I firmly believe that the Quran is the single most harmful text to ever be penned, and that Muhumad has caused more damage to the human race than any other person before or after him. I think the decision by so many people to follow and live by such nonsensical garbage is possibly the single most clear indication of the dependent nature of humans, and their desire and/or need to be controlled.

OK if you believe that, that's fine. Allah loves you. He created suspicion of Islam as well as Islam because He wants us each to have our own way through life.


This book constantly drills into the readers the idea that they should fear Allah.

Fear of Allah= Tarqua (Generally) which means more precisely Awe of God. In other words, it is the kind of fear you have when you stand in front of a great king that you respect. Its the fear of being amazed by someone's greatness and doing your best to act dignified before them. Live your life like you knew God was all around you. Live a dignified life where you have enough class not to do viceful things.


The acceptance of such an absurd notion creates insecurity and conflict, along with just about every negative emotion you can name. I suppose the idea of creating an accepting God that would encourage peace, unity and happiness didnít really fit Muhumadís regime.

Islam was the first Abrahamic religion to state that anyone who believed in God would go to Heaven in their Holy Book. Jews thought Christians were worshipping an idol and Christians said Jews needed to accept Jesus. Muhammad said thatt Jews, Christians, and Muslims would go to Heaven. If that aint unity I don't know what is.


Then weíre told that Allah needs us to constantly kiss his ass or else Heíll get upset and make us burn in His fire for eternity. I guess Allah is a bitter, insecure and judgemental motherfucker then. Personally I wouldnít really wish to praise a God who created me to follow His wishes and worship Him to boost his ego and help Him deal with His insecurities. But hey, weíre all different.

God doesn't need us to kiss up to Him. And you clearly don't understand how Muslim Hell works. Almost no one burns for eternity; most stay only long enough for their evil deeds to be burned off their soul then go to Paradise. Only like Hitler stays forever.

God doesn't need you to boost His ego. Understand that God created the universe because He is full of beautiful love and He needed to express His love. This universe is like a painting, inspired by God's beautifullove much like an artist might be inspired by a beautiful sunset. When we do the right thing we express that we are full of love too and are a worthy work.

I think it is particularly absurd that women should follow such blatantly sexist material. The book blatantly states that men are superior to women, and continually makes references that put women in the position of accepting the control of men and conforming to their wishes. I mean who would have thought God to be sexist?

I agree. God isn't sexist. God has a masculine form (Allah) and a feminine form (Ramallah). This is a teaching Sufi Islam and we call Her Ramallah in dhikr. Allah is used for simplicity's sake (Its shorter). This is also taught in Judaism (the word that is usually interpreted Lord in English is feminine while God is mascualine.)

Quite a revelation that one is. I believe this is sometimes defended by adherents to Islam by pointing out that the book is rather favourable towards women considering their position in society at the time that it was written. I suppose Allah chose to share his eternal word based on the short era in which the prophet Muhumad lived. That makes sense.

Actually I do believe that. God reveals according to what man can handle, lest they outright reject a teaching because its too radical for them. The Torah/Old Testament tells the Israelites they can prostitute their daughters, take the women of men they slayed as wives, etc. All those things are banned in the Koran.

Hitler, Stalin, Hussein etc, were all responsible for a lot of deaths at one timeÖso what? Muhumad is responsible for writing a book that causes so many people to live in unwarranted fear, suppressing their natural desires and instincts for no excusable reason, and creating confused minds who are unaccepting of anybody who does not adhere to this way of life, and will go to extreme measures to demonstrate this. His words have been doing this for generations and will continue to do so for future generations.

Personally I think the general concept of religion is absurd, and does a whole lot more damage than good, but most religions still have some positive and guiding teachings. Islam seems only to drill into people the same harmful concepts over and over.

Discuss.




Whatever. You seem like a real prick so believe what you want. I personally believe a religion that tells you not to kill babies at a time when it was popular, not to take drugs, improves your health and tells you not to rely on Tribal affiliation at times when clan wars were common is generally positive.

Ultimate Fist
09-25-2006, 11:47 PM
OK read the blue parts too. i messed up and wrote in the same text he did at the beginning. D'oh!

hidden ninja
09-26-2006, 11:40 AM
I think that you should believe less what the Media says about Islam.
maybe find a copy of the Quran, and read it for yourself.

WU-KILLAH
09-26-2006, 01:30 PM
Thank you Ultimate Fist for these precisions. (have you ever read Averroes ?)
I found The_Truth views interesting aswell.

oLd_KaiNry
09-26-2006, 02:05 PM
ive readed 1/4 of that text and you were right ...

HANZO
09-26-2006, 05:04 PM
i dont expect people raised in western civilizations to understand islam, it obvious u believe wat ever your media portrays islam to be. the aspects u pointed out are simply the arab mentality. women are the equals of men but in arab soceity even before islam it isnt like that. if you do not agree with the qu'ran u neither agree with the bible or the torah then as the context is similar. islam has brought a lot to the world, yes religion is a tool used by the wicked to extract hatred. but thats the mentality of man the greed of man provokes war. dont judge islam by what u see on tv with afganistan, iraq and al-queda. islam does not promote war neither does it promote kill the infidel, but people interpret the message differently, the suicide bomber thing it says no where that killing yourself will make u a martyr, thats just desperate propaganda. your stereotyping the islamic world thinking all are towel wearing camel riding arabs. always remember the westerners have caused way more destruction to the planet then the muslims just read up on some history, the crusades for one are a perfect example the conquest of the americas the african slave trade and both world wars including the a-bomb and the holocaust. your just seeing some arabs in iraq blowing themselves up at the end of the day they killing their own people if they foolish enough to do that let them do it, dont generalise and think every muslim u see will kill you as its what allah says.

WuTangWarrior
09-26-2006, 05:06 PM
i dont expect people raised in western civilizations to understand islam, it obvious u believe wat ever your media portrays islam to be. the aspects u pointed out are simply the arab mentality. women are the equals of men but in arab soceity even before islam it isnt like that. if you do not agree with the qu'ran u neither agree with the bible or the torah then as the context is similar. islam has brought a lot to the world, yes religion is a tool used by the wicked to extract hatred. but thats the mentality of man the greed of man provokes war. dont judge islam by what u see on tv with afganistan, iraq and al-queda. islam does not promote war neither does it promote kill the infidel, but people interpret the message differently, the suicide bomber thing it says no where that killing yourself will make u a martyr, thats just desperate propaganda. your stereotyping the islamic world thinking all are towel wearing camel riding arabs. always remember the westerners have caused way more destruction to the planet then the muslims just read up on some history, the crusades for one are a perfect example the conquest of the americas the african slave trade and both world wars including the a-bomb and the holocaust. your just seeing some arabs in iraq blowing themselves up at the end of the day they killing their own people if they foolish enough to do that let them do it, dont generalise and think every muslim u see will kill you as its what allah says.

DONT LISTEN TO HIM, LETS ALL GO WATCH FOX NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HANZO
09-26-2006, 05:26 PM
i was watching fox news when writing that gives me inspiration

WU-KILLAH
09-26-2006, 05:58 PM
yes religion is a tool used by the wicked to extract hatred. but thats the mentality of man the greed of man provokes war


100% co-sign that

Sicka than aidZ
09-26-2006, 07:35 PM
yo "the truth" this threads gonna go no where and fast if thats your final opinion. why'd u really start it?

Urban_Journalz
09-26-2006, 09:28 PM
First of all, Muhammad (Peace and Blessings Be Upon him) did not write The Qur'an. It was recited to him and he memorized it. The companions wrote it down from his recitals.
Now, your problem, like so many other people, is that you want to believe that mankind can get away with whatever we do and punishment is never justified. No one cares if you would worship a God that is strict in punishment. The fact of the matter is, He created you and everything that ever was. We all have free will.
Contrary to what your beloved media is telling you, Islam is THE religion of Peace. YOU choose to believe that hypocrites like Bin Laden are REAL Muslims, instead of going out ad getting the facts for yourself. Further proving the stereotype that 99% or Americans are drones.
Your problem is that you're ungrateful. Why would you not remember The One who gave you life and made you grow?? What? Did you do it on your own? The organs, nerves, oxygen?? lol. Your own MEMORY testifies to the fact that you had NOTHING to do with your creation or THE creation because you can't rememeber anything past the age of 4 at the most.

You only did this to start a fuss because Ramadan is here. Period. You want to feel like a pseudo-patriot in your hating of Muslims. If this were WW2, you'd hate Japanese people.

Furthermore, IF you even read the entire Qur'an, you were only trying to find verses that you could manipulate into your twisted way of interpretation.

I suppose you'd take a KKK member's interpretation of Christianity too then right???
Or maybe George W. Bush's interpretation of fairness, justice and equality???

One more Islamophob that had no idea what the real deal is. Period.

I'd be surprised if you knew you OWN book kid.
You CLAIM Muhammad (pbuh) wrote The Qur'an, I challenge you to pick up 3 different copies of The Qur'an and see if you can find a single verse that doesn't match the verse in the other book.

PRODUCE YOUR PROOF BECAUSE SIMPLE CHILDISH RANT WITHOUT ADEQUATE KNOWLEDGE MAKE YOU LOOK REALLY STUPID.

You're just mad because The Bible has been re-written more times than ANYONE can remember. So often, that it's not even in it's ORIGINAL TOUNGE!!! Which was PROBABLY HEBREW!!!!!8O

You have no faith of your own. You believe life should be a cakewalk with no punishment. If God really WAS stuck up and impatient, none of us would be here on account of the atrocities and abominations we all cater to so willingly.

You're scared. You don't want to do the work in order to walk in the right path. You don't have the faith or patience to do so. So you bash those who do seek the right path. Worse even, WITH NOTHING BUT YOUR STUPID BIGOTRY TO BACK IT!!!!

Bring any arguement you want and I'll smash it.
Guaranteed.
Ramadan Mubarak to all my Muslims. Keep on keepin' on and remember that no matter what anyone says, Death will open the eyes of every generation.

Peace

The_Truth
09-26-2006, 11:19 PM
I only wrote this to get it off my chest, so Iím not gonna bother debating it at length. Iíll just make a few key points. You can accept my sincerity or pretend your perception of my intentions is correct. I really couldnít give a flying fuck either way.

-I donít watch tv, nor do I read newspapers.

-I was indifferent towards Islam and muslims before I read the Quran. In fact I am still indifferent towards muslims. I just loathe the teachings of Islam.

-I have actually been in heated arguments where I was DEFENDING muslims and Islam, against simple minded sheep who think all muslims are terrorists, and that Islam encourages such actions. Please note that I barely even mentioned such things in my post. All I said was that the teachings created CONFUSED minds that then carried out such acts.

-Anybody who mentioned any other religions or religious writings, please go back and acknowledge my comment "Personally I think the general concept of religion is absurd, and does a whole lot more damage than good, but most religions still have some positive and guiding teachings"ÖYes, that means I think the majority of religions and religious writings are nonsense.

-I do not adhere to any religion or religious writing. I do not even have a preference for any one.

-I have read the entire Quran as well as a summary of it and other Islamic texts. If you donít believe me I really donít give a fuck.

-I realize Muhummad didnít actually pen the Quran, but he is still the man responsible for it.

-I didnít even realize it was Ramadan.

Itís really as if nobody who replied actually read my post. I didnít even mention any of the bullshit you guys are defending. You donít even understand what I was saying. Read my post again. You seem to think I said Muhummad has the highest body count of all people in history. If you read it again you might realize I was actually saying "So what" if somebody is responsible for so many deaths? The words of Muhummad are responsible for creating a vengeful, demanding, judgemental creator God whose desires for human beings strongly oppose their natural instincts and therefore lead them into a confused and unnatural way of life, causing any number of large scale problems along the way.

Urban_Journalz
09-26-2006, 11:33 PM
Lol Balderdash!!!!!

The_Truth
09-27-2006, 12:27 AM
Lol Balderdash!!!!!

Like I said...

If you donít believe me I really donít give a fuck.

Sicka than aidZ
09-27-2006, 12:38 AM
Yeah U Found The Place To Talk About It. Ive Stuck Up For Mad Muslims On This Site. Or Whatever I Still Dont Even Understand It All But I Know Alot Of Good People Who Enjoy The Quran They Know Whats Up

Ultimate Fist
09-27-2006, 01:09 AM
Yes I didn't read your post. That's why I broke down each part and showed the fallacies of it. Thank you for posting posts on how you don't want people to answer your posts. I'll keep in mind that this makes perfect sense on a discussion board. I don't care if you hate/are indifferent to all religions. God created hatred/indifferenc of all religions for you. That's fine if you enjoy it. Personally I've experienced too much to feel that way.

Ultimate Fist
09-27-2006, 01:12 AM
Just out of curiousity, what other "Islamic texts" did you read, Mr. Smartypants? And what do you mean by summary, Cliffnotes? LOL

The_Truth
09-27-2006, 01:53 AM
I didn't say you didn't read my post. I said it was AS IF nobody had ready it because nobody seemed to understand it.

Nor did I say I didn't want people to reply. I wouldn't have ended my post with "discuss" if that was the case. I wanted to read what people had to say. I was hoping I could do this without getting involved in these petty arguments, but of course I couldn't help myself.

This is why I didn't want to debate this at length. Because you just end up getting into these menial, pissy little arguments that come about through miscommunication.

As for which Islamic texts I've read, like I said, I read summaries of some of them. The only one I have read in it's entirety is the Quran. By "summary" I mean that I have read a text on Islam that contained excerpts of what the authors considered the most relevant parts of the most relevant Islamic texts. The book is at home. I'm at work. I'll have to get back to you with the titles of the texts from which these excerpts were taken. Obviously this did not give me a thorough knowledge of these texts, but nor did I ever claim it did. Let's not forget the discussion is about Muhummad and the Quran.

Ultimate Fist
09-27-2006, 01:59 AM
What discussion? You keep freaking out wherever I say something. Come on I'm rational. I responded directly to what you said. Please reply to what I said so we get a discussion going. Otherwise I don't know why you posted this.

The_Truth
09-27-2006, 03:47 AM
Like I said, I posted it because I wanted to get it off my chest. I did not wish to discuss it, but merely leave it open for other people's opinions. The posts I've done since were to clear up some points I couldn't ignore. I did not comment on your post simply because I did not feel the desire to. We clearly have entirely different interpretations of the book, the main reason seemingly being that you consider it to be the word of "God", whereas I simply see it as a book that was written based on what some guy named Muhummad taught. There is no point in me discussing this with you when you seem to think that you not only know for certain that there is a "God", but also that you know what "His" wishes are.

You have your interpretation of the Quran, which is quite alright with me, and I have mine, which is every bit as valid as yours, or any other person for that matter...Unless you can bring back Muhummad to break it down for me.

The_Truth
09-27-2006, 03:53 AM
Oh, and the excerpts are taken from:

The Hadith Canons
Selections From Sunni And Shi'i Writings
Selections From Sufi Writings

It's really not a whole lot though. I would not claim to be well versed in these writimgs at all.

Urban_Journalz
09-27-2006, 12:50 PM
Shia's aren't practicing Al-Islam, and Sunni's are mostly arrogant with their knowledge. In the Qur'an it says that we are not supposed to seperate ourselves in sects, because that's one of the main reasons why those who came before us (Jews and Christians) fight amongst themselves. Stick to Qur'an and Sunnah, if you want facts. Yes, Sunnis call themselves the best followers of the Sunnah, hence the name Sunni, but just based on the fact that they say, "I'm Sunni Muslim." and not "I'm Muslim." Shows the error of their ways.