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Visionz
11-05-2006, 07:37 AM
Whether you believe in the Author or not, there is still a vast amount of knowledge that can be obtained from reading religous text. I find this to be true, whether its the Bible or the Quran (and others of which I haven't read)
I'll be periodically posting verses from these Scriptures for both discussion and interpretation. Feel free to add on however you may.

Visionz
11-05-2006, 07:57 AM
Reading the Introduction to the Quran for the first time really reached out and grabbed me. I think more than anything else, the honesty and straight-fowardness with which is was written definetly appealed to me and caused me to keep reading. I'll transcribe the first four verses here.



Glory to Allah Most High, full of Grace and Mercy;
He created All, including Man. To Man He gave a special place in His Creation. He honoured man to be His Agent, and to that end, endued him with understanding, purified his affections, and gave him spiritual insight;
So that man should understand Nature, understand himself, and know Allah through His wondrous Signs, and glorify Him in Truth, reverence and unity.


For the fulfilment of this great trust Man was further given a Will, so that his acts should reflects Allah's universal Will and Law, and his mind, freely choosing, should experience the sublime joy of being in harmony with the Infinite, and with the great drama of the world around him, and with his own spiritual growth.

But, created though he was in the best of moulds, Man fell from Unity when his Will was warped, and he chose the crooked path of Discord, and sorrow and pain, selfishness and degradation. Ignorance and hatred, despair and unbelief. Poisoned his life, and he saw shapes of evil in the physical, moral and spiritual world, and in himself.


Then did his soul rise against himself, and his self-discord made discord between kith and kin, Men began to fear the strong and oppress the weak, to boast in prosperity and curse in adversity. And to flee each other, pursuing phantoms, for the truth and reality of Unity was gone from their minds.












We have fallen far from where we're supposed to be and the entire planet seems to be caught up in worldly ways. Perhaps the first steps towards getting this headed back in the right direction is being able to see things clearly. We, as humans, stand as one. It is our own illusions, both self-inflicted and from outside sources, that keep us from this truth.

LHX
11-05-2006, 09:12 AM
dope thread Unseen

Prince Rai
11-05-2006, 03:11 PM
beautifully extracted verse Eric.

I agree that, without trying to rip apart the scriptures ie Bible, there are many verses that are neutral but very profound for a reader who wants to connect with the higher realms. as long as we can understand the verses non-radically, if you get what im saying.

Visionz
11-05-2006, 11:23 PM
indeed, I intend on trying to discuss the more literal sense of the verses when discussing them here. The knowledge is still profound when applying the words to today's situation.

Visionz
11-05-2006, 11:48 PM
Then did his soul rise against himself, and his self-discord made discord between kith and kin, Men began to fear the strong and oppress the weak, to boast in prosperity and curse in adversity. And to flee each other, pursuing phantoms, for the truth and reality of Unity was gone from their minds.The course of our own history is one of seperation. The are many whys, many places in time to point our fingers at. Those places and whys can be very different from person to person. While I don't think we should ignore their effects that have echoed into this modern day, they shouldn't be the primary focus. For me, it has to be where do we go from here? How, as a society, do we begin to erase the lines that seperate us all?

Some things can't be ignored. We have enough resources to ensure that everyone is fed yet people are starving. What will it take for us as a whole to start caring more about our fellow humans than our own success?

I ask not from a holier-than-thou perspective. I, being weak at times myself, blow more in a month than what some people on this planet are making in a year. I realize we're all standing in a mudbath, and no one's walking around clean no matter how self-righteous they may appear. I think it's an important thing to remember when trying to truly discuss these issues. Accusations and finger-pointing won't get anyone anywhere.

Visionz
11-06-2006, 09:43 PM
Surah 7, verse 30

Some He hath guided
Others have (by their choice)
Deserved the loss of their way;
In that they took
The Evil Ones, in preference
To Allah, for their friends
And protectors, and think
That they receive guidance.







I don't plan on posting these verses, as if I'm the only one with an oppinion that counts. What do these words mean to you?

LHX
11-06-2006, 09:50 PM
Surah 7, verse 30

Some He hath guided
Others have (by their choice)
Deserved the loss of their way;
In that they took
The Evil Ones, in preference
To Allah, for their friends
And protectors, and think
That they receive guidance.







I don't plan on posting these verses, as if I'm the only one with an oppinion that counts. What do these words mean to you?
that one applies directly to that thread Charging started about books

some he hath guided (direct experience)

others took the evil ones in preference (the words of others)
and think they receive guidance





do not worship false idols

Visionz
11-06-2006, 09:57 PM
word^, while I agree with the basis of Charging's argument, direct experience isn't the sole means of gaining knowledge (even if it is best)

Do you think that following false prophets and worshipping false idols is one and the same or is it something different?

LHX
11-06-2006, 10:04 PM
no it seems to be the same thing

or at least fruits off the same tree of ignorance



following false prophets seems to have a little bit more innocence in it

we were all brought up following false prophets


false prophets can encourage you to worship false idols
like words
or money
or titties

Visionz
11-06-2006, 10:19 PM
definetly see that, the false idols are everywhere. That celebrity worship shit sickens me. If you're not my wife, I could care less who's fucking who. It's like people are so disinterested in their own lives that they have to live vicariously through someone else.

LHX
11-06-2006, 10:41 PM
i know

ever since i became moderator ive had to put up wiff these cameras following me


i cant even piss in the bushes anymore without some dude tryin to take a wide-angle lens shot of my wilkins

Visionz
11-06-2006, 10:59 PM
haha, you're killin me man.


Have you noticed the lack of participation in this thread? A lot of views but no replys. Any oppinions on why that probably is?

LHX
11-06-2006, 11:28 PM
its hard to have everybody on the same page bro

people have to be in the mood


timing is important in all things

or so it seems

Black Man
11-07-2006, 11:03 AM
Whether you believe in the Author or not, there is still a vast amount of knowledge that can be obtained from reading religous text. I find this to be true, whether its the Bible or the Quran (and others of which I haven't read)
I'll be periodically posting verses from these Scriptures for both discussion and interpretation. Feel free to add on however you may.

Quite right. What I've come to find is that people are unable to get those wise words because of the religious idealogy that they bring. It's hard to look at something at multiple of angles when all you can see is through the eyes of your religion.

I remember talking to somebody who happened to be a christian, and he was talking about the miracles jesus performed, like healing the blind. He took it as a literal healing of the physical eye, but I was like you can't prove that man's power like that. I began to explain it wasn't a physical healing but more of a mental/spiritual healing. There's alot of people who have 20/20 vision but they're blind as a bat.

Allah is god in the heaven and earth and he is just and true....

Visionz
11-07-2006, 11:13 AM
Yet that would still only be an interpretation. Some people take things on the more literal vs. figuertive meaning. Since you weren't there and can't say with absolute certainty, its best to be open to both possibilities.

Black Man
11-07-2006, 11:22 AM
The course of our own history is one of seperation. The are many whys, many places in time to point our fingers at. Those places and whys can be very different from person to person. While I don't think we should ignore their effects that have echoed into this modern day, they shouldn't be the primary focus. For me, it has to be where do we go from here? How, as a society, do we begin to erase the lines that seperate us all?

Some things can't be ignored. We have enough resources to ensure that everyone is fed yet people are starving. What will it take for us as a whole to start caring more about our fellow humans than our own success?

I ask not from a holier-than-thou perspective. I, being weak at times myself, blow more in a month than what some people on this planet are making in a year. I realize we're all standing in a mudbath, and no one's walking around clean no matter how self-righteous they may appear. I think it's an important thing to remember when trying to truly discuss these issues. Accusations and finger-pointing won't get anyone anywhere.

Everybody should have food, clothing, and shelter if they're willing to work for it. There's more than enough to go around. But why isn't this happening? I know you say accusations and finger-pointing wont get anyone anywhere but if you can't identify the cause then the effect will always remain the same and there will be no change. It's hard not to point out the culpret when it's so obvious.

During the industrial revolution in america, women were used as workers alot prior to marriage. After marriage they wouldn't work in the plants anymore. During this time work condition were very bad, horrible. Was it the laborers fault or was it the owners fault they were getting paid low wages, working in unventalated rooms, doors and windows being locked so they can't get out, up to 14 hour workdays was a norm, etc. etc....if they didn't point the finger there would be no change in the work force today. Those women played an important part in what life is like today, and it started by pointing the finger.

It seems like people don't like finger pointing because they know within themselves that that finger is eventually going to fall on them for a just reason. We (America/U.N/whoever) brought saddamm hussein up on charges against crimes against humanity and executed. That's finger pointing. At some point in time, the wrong doer needs to be finger pointed out. That way the people can do what's needed to ensure a better quality of life.

90% of the wealth is in 10% of the populations hand and 90% of that wealth is held by just 1% of that 10%.

Food, clothing, and shelter for all isn't going to happen with numbers like these...

Black Man
11-07-2006, 11:33 AM
Whether you believe in the Author or not, there is still a vast amount of knowledge that can be obtained from reading religous text. I find this to be true, whether its the Bible or the Quran (and others of which I haven't read)
I'll be periodically posting verses from these Scriptures for both discussion and interpretation. Feel free to add on however you may.

Do you have a favorite "religious" book that you like to read? And if so, why?

I like the bible the best. To me its the most interesting and there's alot of precious gems up in there. The Quran is a boring read for me, but still full of wisdom I just don't like as much as the bible. There's another joint that I like alot and that's the quran that the moors read. That got some ish up there. I think you just might like. Not a long read, can finish it in less than day but each line is powerful. The Book of the Dead, can't really get into that.

What other religous have you read?

Visionz
11-07-2006, 11:42 AM
Do you have a favorite "religious" book that you like to read? And if so, why?

I like the bible the best. To me its the most interesting and there's alot of precious gems up in there. The Quran is a boring read for me, but still full of wisdom I just don't like as much as the bible. There's another joint that I like alot and that's the quran that the moors read. That got some ish up there. I think you just might like. Not a long read, can finish it in less than day but each line is powerful. The Book of the Dead, can't really get into that.

What other religous have you read?

Mainly the Bible and the Quran. I've dabbled in Buddism and Taoism but don't really know all that much about 'em, just their basic principles. I enjoy reading the Quran the most just because I appreciate the directness of the words. The Bible at times seems to have been overly-translated to the point where I'm not sure I can trust everything that's in there actually came from God.


And no offense, but if its a version of the Quran that you can read in a day, then it's not actually the Quran, but something else.

Visionz
11-07-2006, 11:55 AM
Everybody should have food, clothing, and shelter if they're willing to work for it. There's more than enough to go around. But why isn't this happening? I know you say accusations and finger-pointing wont get anyone anywhere but if you can't identify the cause then the effect will always remain the same and there will be no change. It's hard not to point out the culpret when it's so obvious.

During the industrial revolution in america, women were used as workers alot prior to marriage. After marriage they wouldn't work in the plants anymore. During this time work condition were very bad, horrible. Was it the laborers fault or was it the owners fault they were getting paid low wages, working in unventalated rooms, doors and windows being locked so they can't get out, up to 14 hour workdays was a norm, etc. etc....if they didn't point the finger there would be no change in the work force today. Those women played an important part in what life is like today, and it started by pointing the finger.

It seems like people don't like finger pointing because they know within themselves that that finger is eventually going to fall on them for a just reason. We (America/U.N/whoever) brought saddamm hussein up on charges against crimes against humanity and executed. That's finger pointing. At some point in time, the wrong doer needs to be finger pointed out. That way the people can do what's needed to ensure a better quality of life.

90% of the wealth is in 10% of the populations hand and 90% of that wealth is held by just 1% of that 10%.

Food, clothing, and shelter for all isn't going to happen with numbers like these... My reason for stating that was with the intention of keeping the conversation on the more positive side of things and to focus on what can actually be acheived. I can say that American imperialism is fucking up the planet and can find all kinds of information to back that statement up, but doing so isn't going to put a dent in our imperialistic intent. Its fruitless to go round in circles on those kind of issues when it makes no change at all in our society.

Studying religous text, however, may give someone insight or outlooks that they might not otherwise have had and hopefully in a positive manner. The world's been fucked for a long time. Getting it to head back in the right direction is going to take extremely small baby steps. From my own observations, assigning blame in these conversations gets you nowhere at all.

Black Man
11-07-2006, 12:42 PM
Mainly the Bible and the Quran. I've dabbled in Buddism and Taoism but don't really know all that much about 'em, just their basic principles. I enjoy reading the Quran the most just because I appreciate the directness of the words. The Bible at times seems to have been overly-translated to the point where I'm not sure I can trust everything that's in there actually came from God.


And no offense, but if its a version of the Quran that you can read in a day, then it's not actually the Quran, but something else.

Before you make an assumption of something not being what it is, read it if you can find it. Quran only means to recite and Allah is full of wisdom, and no book will fully contain his wisdom.

The book the moors use, isn't a version of the quran....

Black Man
11-07-2006, 12:47 PM
My reason for stating that was with the intention of keeping the conversation on the more positive side of things and to focus on what can actually be acheived. I can say that American imperialism is fucking up the planet and can find all kinds of information to back that statement up, but doing so isn't going to put a dent in our imperialistic intent. Its fruitless to go round in circles on those kind of issues when it makes no change at all in our society.

Studying religous text, however, may give someone insight or outlooks that they might not otherwise have had and hopefully in a positive manner. The world's been fucked for a long time. Getting it to head back in the right direction is going to take extremely small baby steps. From my own observations, assigning blame in these conversations gets you nowhere at all.

Jesus pointed the finger as did muhammad.

All progress socially that I've seen first started with pointing the finger. Once the problem is identified then the solution can be worked on. Some people don't know they're victoms of the evils of the world.

the silencer
11-07-2006, 01:24 PM
Mainly the Bible and the Quran. I've dabbled in Buddism and Taoism but don't really know all that much about 'em, just their basic principles. I enjoy reading the Quran the most just because I appreciate the directness of the words. The Bible at times seems to have been overly-translated to the point where I'm not sure I can trust everything that's in there actually came from God.


And no offense, but if its a version of the Quran that you can read in a day, then it's not actually the Quran, but something else.
just curious....do u read an Arabic version??

cuz i have alota trouble reading my english-translated version of the Qur'an....the language just comes across mad choppy, its annoying..i'd like to read it more but it gets repetitive and boring when i try to sit down and read it straight thru so i basically now stick to using it as reference cuz i like right now im finishin up readin Karen Armstrong's bio of the Prophet Muhammad and she constantly refers to verses so i go thru it like that....

i havent had the time yet to read thru this whole thread but looks like u guys got some deep shit goin on here....peace

LHX
11-07-2006, 05:54 PM
its too bad there does not seem to be a way of really sitting down and getting to the bottom of these books

the internet is good, but its not quite good enough yet

fuck

Soul Controller
11-07-2006, 06:58 PM
Whether you believe in the Author or not, there is still a vast amount of knowledge that can be obtained from reading religous text. I find this to be true, whether its the Bible or the Quran (and others of which I haven't read)
I'll be periodically posting verses from these Scriptures for both discussion and interpretation. Feel free to add on however you may.


Peace Eric,

Great thread you started here.

Visionz
11-08-2006, 11:34 PM
just curious....do u read an Arabic version??

cuz i have alota trouble reading my english-translated version of the Qur'an....the language just comes across mad choppy, its annoying..i'd like to read it more but it gets repetitive and boring when i try to sit down and read it straight thru so i basically now stick to using it as reference cuz i like right now im finishin up readin Karen Armstrong's bio of the Prophet Muhammad and she constantly refers to verses so i go thru it like that....

i havent had the time yet to read thru this whole thread but looks like u guys got some deep shit goin on here....peace The edition of the Quran I have was translated by Abdullah Yusuf Ali. I don't find it to be choppy myself but on the front it says that its a revised translation so that might be the difference.

Visionz
11-08-2006, 11:55 PM
Surah 29 verse 46,

And dispute ye not
With the People of the Book,
Except with means better
(Than mere disputation) unless
It be with those of them
Who inflict wrong (and ijnury);
But say, "We believe
In the Revelation which has
Come down to us and in that
Which came down to you;
Our God and your God
Is One, and it is to Him
We bow (in Islam)*





*it should be noted that the definition of Islam is submittal to God's will. It is not really a religion somuch as a course of action, meaning that one may very well be a practioner of Islam and not actually know it. (atleast not by that label)

LORD NOSE
05-02-2009, 09:17 PM
up

there was another one though

diggy
05-02-2009, 10:00 PM
Some words of wisdom.

Quran - chapter 17:23 to 17:39

017.023
Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or both of them attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honour.


017.024
And, out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say: "My Lord! bestow on them thy Mercy even as they cherished me in childhood."

017.025
Your Lord knoweth best what is in your hearts: If ye do deeds of righteousness, verily He is Most Forgiving to those who turn to Him again and again (in true penitence).

017.026
And render to the kindred their due rights, as (also) to those in want, and to the wayfarer: But squander not (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift.

017.027
Verily spendthrifts are brothers of the Evil Ones; and the Evil One is to his Lord (himself) ungrateful.

017.028
And even if thou hast to turn away from them in pursuit of the Mercy from thy Lord which thou dost expect, yet speak to them a word of easy kindness.

017.029
Make not thy hand tied (like a niggard's) to thy neck, nor stretch it forth to its utmost reach, so that thou become blameworthy and destitute.

017.030
Verily thy Lord doth provide sustenance in abundance for whom He pleaseth, and He provideth in a just measure. For He doth know and regard all His servants.

017.031
Kill not your children for fear of want: We shall provide sustenance for them as well as for you. Verily the killing of them is a great sin.

017.032
Nor come nigh to adultery: for it is a shameful (deed) and an evil, opening the road (to other evils).

017.033
Nor take life - which Allah has made sacred - except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, we have given his heir authority (to demand qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the Law).

017.034
Come not nigh to the orphan's property except to improve it, until he attains the age of full strength; and fulfil (every) engagement, for (every) engagement will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).

017.035
Give full measure when ye measure, and weigh with a balance that is straight: that is the most fitting and the most advantageous in the final determination.

017.036
And pursue not that of which thou hast no knowledge; for every act of hearing, or of seeing or of (feeling in) the heart will be enquired into (on the Day of Reckoning).

017.037
Nor walk on the earth with insolence: for thou canst not rend the earth asunder, nor reach the mountains in height.

017.038
Of all such things the evil is hateful in the sight of thy Lord.

017.039
These are among the (precepts of) wisdom, which thy Lord has revealed to thee. Take not, with Allah, another object of worship, lest thou shouldst be thrown into Hell, blameworthy and rejected.



Straight forward words of wisdom.

Thoughts?