PDA

View Full Version : The Mathematics thread

Prolifical ENG
11-08-2006, 10:21 AM
Perhaps this could be a useful thread...whether just basic arithmetic, calculus, algebra......anyone doing math in school and are stumped on a question etc.

if anyone wants to know about "supreme mathematics", it might be better to read the archives or start another thread and hope someone can explain it to you.

Ill sticky it for now and see if it become useful, otherwise it'll fall

LHX
11-08-2006, 02:14 PM
math is on my mind a lot these days

primarily trying to figure out what the significance of math is aside from being a hobby or a exercise in problem solving

there is a lot of reason to believe that standard geometric shapes do not exist in nature

you would be hard-pressed to find a rectangle in the forest unless a man put one there
(flashes of 2001: a space oddysey)

calculus is enlightening
algebraic ways of thinking are useful

i question a lot of other mathematics tho

it tricks the mind into thinking a certain way and seeing the world in a certain way

another example:
the notion of a 'wave'
there is no such thing as a 2-dimensional wave

there are no 2D soundwaves floating around

if anything, a wave is a cross-section view of a 3D spiral

other than that, the 2D wave is something completely imaginary, and like the rectangle, does not exist in nature (other than the 'nature' man creates)

Prolifical ENG
11-08-2006, 05:46 PM
as i studied math the way i looked at it is a geometricly "perfect" world is just a common imagination shared by many. we try to bring that world into our natural world. now we have lines all around us that look perfect to the eye.

LHX
11-08-2006, 06:46 PM
now we have lines all around us that look perfect to the eye.

yikes

Prolifical ENG
11-08-2006, 06:55 PM
yup....a line segment in math is just that....one dimension that is perfectly straight. if you see a line, you can get a fine enough instrument you can find out that it isnt straight afterall.

the constant of "pie" has an endless amount of decimals...how many decimals do you really need to measure the circumference of your circle that you drew?

the ruler that i use to measure has a the smallest increment of 1mm....there is a reason for that.

westvillain
11-08-2006, 06:58 PM
primarily trying to figure out what the significance of math is aside from being a hobby or a exercise in problem solving

what i'm about to say is not really the most profound thing ever and probably not what you're looking for, but I was thinking recently about the fact that mathematics seems to provide the most basic truths that can be universally understood and agreed upon by everyone. no one will argue that 1+1=2. this was discussed in my philosophy class. I immediately thought of Orwell's 1984, in which the ultimate proof that Big Brother could control the masses was when they convinced everyone that 2+2=5. i think its interesting. peace

LHX
11-08-2006, 07:05 PM
what is the origin of numbers?

what is the origin of measurements?

Prolifical ENG
11-08-2006, 07:30 PM
origin of numbers has been discussed here....i guess we all know the basics of it.

measurement however has not.

LHX
11-08-2006, 09:07 PM
before consulting any historical documents, what kind of well informed guesses can we come up with as to the origins of measurements?

what is the transition from symbols ----> numbers ----> measuring quantities, distances, volumes?

what role does precision and accuracy play in all this? are they even matters of importance?

westvillain
11-11-2006, 12:46 PM
i learned last year in Afro-American history that measurement originated in West Africa as etchings on the bones of some large animal that were known as Oshongo (sp.?) bones. I wish I could remember this more specifially but thats the gist of it. and im not sure what exactly they used it to measure

11-11-2006, 12:51 PM
the only math i give a fuck about is my spiritual and biochemical equations...

0-9

LORD NOSE
11-11-2006, 03:27 PM
u spelled the title wrong dough

is spelled "Maffahmatiks"

Prolifical ENG
11-12-2006, 09:55 PM
Origins of measurement the length of a foot, the width of a finger, and the distance of a step were all accepted measurements in ancient times. Then of course "rulers" started making rulers by using a royal persons body part lengths.

For percise measurements from bone etchings in West Africa, that sounds like good info for primitive rulers. Without doing research, this precise distance measuring from bones could have lead to early geometry to build things.

Prolifical ENG
11-13-2006, 01:05 PM
what part are you struggling with?

Olive Oil Goombah
08-27-2007, 07:56 PM
Mathematics is very relevant in our world. Its a system of measurement when you break it down. Without it, most technology is feeble. Do we need it as humans to survive? No, but without it we are still hunter gatherer tribes.

Prince Rai
08-28-2007, 10:08 AM
Mathematics is very relevant in our world. Its a system of measurement when you break it down. Without it, most technology is feeble. Do we need it as humans to survive? No, but without it we are still hunter gatherer tribes.

word, maths is definitely a crucial tool in our everyday life. If numbers seized for a minute there would be chaos. if equations got mixed up etc, again there would be chaos, ie.stock markets, hospitals etc etc.

but see, mathematics seems 1+1=2 but maths requires more thought than mere reliance on it. the fact that we would have chaos in the absence of mathematics shows how vulnerable we are with a topic still so open.

earlier posts already suggested clearly why or how maths is limited to a certain degree.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 11:56 AM
0/9 = 0

9/0 = undefined

Who here can say why?

IrOnMaN
08-31-2007, 12:12 PM
6x+10=28
-10=-10
6x = 18
6x 6x

x=3

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 01:18 PM
Mathematics is very relevant in our world. Its a system of measurement when you break it down. Without it, most technology is feeble. Do we need it as humans to survive? No, but without it we are still hunter gatherer tribes.

You say it like it's a bad thing.

For the record, many hunting and gathering tribes relied heavily on mathematics in there everyday walk of life.

I'll be hitting this thread up now that i'm back in my Algebra courses. I might need some online tutoring from some one knowledgable in complex Algebraic expressions and graphing.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 01:25 PM
6x+10=28

-10=-10
6x = 18
6x 6x

x=3

Your end answer is correct, but you process is messed up. You don't carry that x vairable. That'll fuck you up on more complicated equations.

according to what you did:

6x+10=28

-10=-10
6x = 18
6x 6x

you would get:

6x=18
6x 6x

or

1=18/6x

Longbongcilvaringz
08-31-2007, 01:37 PM
^ he means minus 10 from each side.

then divide each side by 6.

how is that wrong?

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 01:39 PM
^ he means minus 10 from each side.

then divide each side by 6.

how is that wrong?

I know what he meant. I was just correcting a mistake in his method.

He divided both sides by 6x. He should have divided both sides by just 6 to get X by it's self.

That's how you come to x=3

IrOnMaN
08-31-2007, 03:03 PM
I know what he meant. I was just correcting a mistake in his method.

He divided both sides by 6x. He should have divided both sides by just 6 to get X by it's self.

That's how you come to x=3

I know. I always do that when I encounter a problem like that. I know what x is. Here's another one.

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

2x+8=6x+48

2x+8=6x-6x+48

6x+2x+8=48

8x+8=48
-8=-8
8x = 40
8

x=5

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 03:25 PM
I know. I always do that when I encounter a problem like that. I know what x is. Here's another one.

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

2x+8=6x+48

2x+8=6x-6x+48

6x+2x+8=48

8x+8=48
-8=-8
8x = 40
8

x=5

wrong.

2(5+4)=6(5+8)

2(9)=6(13)

18=78 incorrect

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 03:33 PM
I know. I always do that when I encounter a problem like that. I know what x is. Here's another one.

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

2x+8=6x+48

2x+8=6x-6x+48

6x+2x+8=48

8x+8=48
-8=-8
8x = 40
8

x=5

Here is one of the correct ways to answer this problem:

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

2x+8=6x+48

2x-2x+8=6x-2x+48

8=4x + 48

8-48=4x+48-48

-40=4x

-10=x

Check.

Prolifical ENG
08-31-2007, 03:42 PM
0/9 = 0

9/0 = undefined

Who here can say why?

Algebraically it is harder to explain and requires abstract algebra.

If you have minimum knowledge of calculus, it is easy. Think of the graph of the function y=1/x. Now you know that as x approaches 0, y approaches infinity. If 1/0 was defined (meaning x can eventually be zero) then infinity would ironically be finite.

For an elementary example, say you have 0 cookies to be divided amongst 9 people. That means that each person gets 0 cookies. If 0 people get 9 cookies then you can't define the question since there is no people to divide the cookies amongst in the first place (what kinda question is that dividing cookies to people? Not worth while)

IrOnMaN
08-31-2007, 03:46 PM
Here is one of the correct ways to answer this problem:

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

2x+8=6x+48

2x-2x+8=6x-2x+48

8=4x + 48

8-48=4x+48-48

-40=4x

-10=x

Check.

Hmmm...Are you sure because from what I've learned, you always cancel out what's on the right side, not the left. I was taught to do that method in high school and in college.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 03:47 PM
Algebraically it is harder to explain and requires abstract algebra.

If you have minimum knowledge of calculus, it is easy. Think of the graph of the function y=1/x. Now you know that as x approaches 0, y approaches infinity. If 1/0 was defined (meaning x can eventually be zero) then infinity would ironically be finite.

For an elementary example, say you have 0 cookies to be divided amongst 9 people. That means that each person gets 0 cookies. If 0 people get 9 cookies then you can't define the question since there is no people to divide the cookies amongst in the first place (what kinda question is that? Not worth while)

or you can just break it down like this. Check the following equations:

0/9= 0 then 0 X 9= 0

9/0= 0 then 0 X 0 = 9 wich is incorrect.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 03:48 PM
Hmmm...Are you sure because from what I've learned, you always cancel out what's on the right side, not the left. I was taught to do that method in high school and in college.

check the answer. Replace the x's with -10.

Prolifical ENG
08-31-2007, 03:54 PM
ok here.....

I know. I always do that when I encounter a problem like that. I know what x is. Here's another one.

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

2x+8=6x+48

2x-6x+8=48

-4x=48-8
-4x=40
-x=10
x=-10

HANZO
08-31-2007, 03:56 PM
i did it the same way as Prolifical ENG. thats correct.

and ironman it really dont matter which side you cancel out.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 04:02 PM
To illustrate:

2(x+4)=6(x+8)

if x=-10

2(-10+4) = 6(-10+8)

2(-6) = 6(-2)

-12 = -12

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 04:12 PM
Two trains are racing around a square piece of land with a perimeter 500 km. Train A is speeding at 65 mph and train B is speeding at 95 mph but train A left a half hour before train B. What is the width of the piece of land?

Prolifical ENG
08-31-2007, 04:25 PM
Two trains are racing around a square piece of land with a perimeter 500 km. Train A is speeding at 65 mph and train B is speeding at 95 mph but train A left a half hour before train B. What is the width of the piece of land?

I have a few questions:

1. Are the trains going the same way?
2. Is there supposed to be 2 measuring systems used and we need to convert to 1?
3. Is the land actually a square or a rectangle?

HANZO
08-31-2007, 04:30 PM
if its a square the width is 125km

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 04:38 PM
I have a few questions:

1. Are the trains going the same way?
2. Is there supposed to be 2 measuring systems used and we need to convert to 1?
3. Is the land actually a square or a rectangle?

Those questions are irrelevent to the question we're trying to answer. I stated in the question that it is a square piece of land.

if its a square the width is 125km

correct.

Prolifical ENG
08-31-2007, 04:51 PM
hahaha thought so but I was thinking you were just making errors in the question :D

I guess thats the difference in treating a trivial math question published and one posted on a message board

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 04:53 PM
hahaha thought so but I was thinking you were just making errors in the question :D

Did you take calucus? I'm not there yet, but I might need some help understanding some concepts when it comes to rise and run and shit like that when we get to those chapters in class.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 04:58 PM
hahaha thought so but I was thinking you were just making errors in the question :D

I guess thats the difference in treating a trivial math question published and one posted on a message board

Well I figure it's all relevent, becuase some text book questions give you useless information to throw you off.

Prolifical ENG
08-31-2007, 05:04 PM
Yeah I took calculus for years....still use all the stuff I learned in those courses.

I guess you are talking about trigonometry.

That trick question that you put...you will see those...but they will be real ones. those trains will be going in all different directions, velocities, accelerations. Then you will have fun measuring the instantaneous angles and such.

WARPATH
08-31-2007, 05:17 PM
Yeah I took calculus for years....still use all the stuff I learned in those courses.

I guess you are talking about trigonometry.

That trick question that you put...you will see those...but they will be real ones. those trains will be going in all different directions, velocities, accelerations. Then you will have fun measuring the instantaneous angles and such.

no doubt. I'm in intermediate algebra course now, I was just wondering on where you were at on your math so I know where to go for some tutoring. I figure i'm on here enough, I might as well start utilzing peoples expertise.

I fucked off on my math in high school, not realizing I was going into a field where I would need math.

I use simple algebra to calculate water use and future trends now. But for my IT degree I'm goning to need some more of the complicated algrebra stuff, and eventually I'll need calculus for my bachelors degree.

Plus these concepts help with programming too.

The course i'm going to have take eventually is discrete sturctures, but I don't know to much about that either.

HANZO
08-31-2007, 05:29 PM
my maths is considered pretty advanced i jus finished off my first year at college studying aeronautical engineering. so far for a whole year we did nothing but maths and physics. the maths we do is engineering mathematics, your expected to be pretty flawless in algebra and the rest is learning about trigonometry, diffrentiation and integration. knowing a lot of maths though has made me hate it, i been doing it for soo many years and to think i got another 4 years of it to go.

IrOnMaN
08-31-2007, 05:41 PM
ok here.....

I'm so stupid. I'm always making mistakes. Thanks.

Prolifical ENG
08-31-2007, 05:57 PM
I have enough of an algebra background to graduate with pretty much anything except a pure mathematics degree.

In university I took 4 calculus courses in total where 2 of them require some of that algebra... such as advanced differential equations....vector and multivariate calculus.

I remember taking the computer science discrete math.

Thats as much as I need...those 4th year and master's degree math courses are fucked...glad I dont need to take those.

Dokuro
08-31-2007, 10:05 PM

ok here it is

Question: What's the hardest math problem you've ever done?
mr john riddle

It's invariably the one that I'm working on currently. This time
it's: What's the geometrical meaning of the central extension of the algebra
of diffeomorphisms of the circle?
jlu

I've been working on a problem in Number Theory off and on for almost
ten years called "the Collatz Conjecture" aka "the 3X + 1 problem".
Let f(x) be a function defined on the positive integers such that:

f(x) = x/2 if x is even
f(x) = (3*x+1)/2 if x is odd

Then the conjecture is: iterates of f(x) will eventually reach 1 for any
initial value of x. Various cash prizes have been offered for the proof
or disproof of this conjecture.

yah he mad this a fianal

wuswordz95
08-31-2007, 10:13 PM
i suck at math. i only know the basics. does it mean yer stupid if you dont know that diffucult math like algebra or trig

WARPATH
09-01-2007, 09:01 PM
x+3 = 2(x-4)
x+3 = 2x-8
x+11= 2x
11 = x

WARPATH
09-01-2007, 09:02 PM
i suck at math. i only know the basics. does it mean yer stupid if you dont know that diffucult math like algebra or trig

blackwisdom
09-04-2007, 12:05 AM
i learned last year in Afro-American history that measurement originated in West Africa as etchings on the bones of some large animal that were known as Oshongo (sp.?) bones. I wish I could remember this more specifially but thats the gist of it. and im not sure what exactly they used it to measureIn Charles S. Finch III, M.D. book 'The Star of Deep Beginnings: The Genesis of African Science and Technology' he states that the Ishango Bones/harpoons of Zaire are the oldest mathmatical artifacts on record. They date from 70,000 to 90,000 years ago and are in close relation to the Rhind Mathmatical Papyrus which dates back nearly 40,000 years ago.

IrOnMaN
09-04-2007, 09:50 AM
I have enough of an algebra background to graduate with pretty much anything except a pure mathematics degree.

In university I took 4 calculus courses in total where 2 of them require some of that algebra... such as advanced differential equations....vector and multivariate calculus.

I remember taking the computer science discrete math.

Thats as much as I need...those 4th year and master's degree math courses are fucked...glad I dont need to take those.

Wow. So, you already have a B.A. or B.S. degree, right?

V4D3R
09-05-2007, 10:32 PM
http://www.hiphoptables.com/

diggy
10-14-2009, 11:53 PM
ao3QeEdL-FA&feature=related

Shogah
10-17-2009, 02:22 PM
Mathematics is the language of nature, like that movie Pi says.

It is the language/tool to describe the relations in the nature.

It is in the roots of electronics/computer engineering/physics/chemistry...

diggy
01-17-2010, 03:10 AM
Mathematics is the language of nature, like that movie Pi says.

It is the language/tool to describe the relations in the nature.

It is in the roots of electronics/computer engineering/physics/chemistry...

Math is not the language of nature. Math is deductive and because of that it reveals no real truths about nature. It does reveal truths of mathematical theories though.

It does not describe relations in nature. It is the job of science to do that (and math is not a subset of science).

It is not the root of those things. Science is the root of it. Math could be used to predict results and validate theories though.