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View Full Version : Che Guevara - What's ur take?


L~>1<~NKS
12-15-2006, 06:42 PM
I jus had a bit of a altercation wit this Borican female about thiz dood.

I beleive he was an assassin, an executioner, and a coward. Do yall think that? Or think otherwise.
I ask this cuz there'z sum form of cult depictin this dood as a hero, even in Hip Hop!

Nas even praised this dood in Stillmatic and I've seen JayZ where hiz shirtz!

Am I missin sumthin yall - why would u sweat a man like this?? Please discuss....

Here'z an article and the last one on hiz death:

The Cult of Che Don't applaud The Motorcycle Diaries.

By Paul Berman
Posted Friday, Sept. 24, 2004, at 7:33 AM ET
http://img.slate.com/media/55/040924_motorcyclediaries01.jpgPortrait of the insurgent as a young man
The cult of Ernesto Che Guevara is an episode in the moral callousness of our time. Che was a totalitarian. He achieved nothing but disaster. Many of the early leaders of the Cuban Revolution favored a democratic or democratic-socialist direction for the new Cuba. But Che was a mainstay of the hardline pro-Soviet faction, and his faction won. Che presided over the Cuban Revolution's first firing squads. He founded Cuba's "labor camp" system—the system that was eventually employed to incarcerate gays, dissidents, and AIDS victims. To get himself killed, and to get a lot of other people killed, was central to Che's imagination. In the famous essay in which he issued his ringing call for "two, three, many Vietnams," he also spoke about martyrdom and managed to compose a number of chilling phrases: "Hatred as an element of struggle; unbending hatred for the enemy, which pushes a human being beyond his natural limitations, making him into an effective, violent, selective, and cold-blooded killing machine. This is what our soldiers must become …"— and so on. He was killed in Bolivia in 1967, leading a guerrilla movement that had failed to enlist a single Bolivian peasant. And yet he succeeded in inspiring tens of thousands of middle class Latin-Americans to exit the universities and organize guerrilla insurgencies of their own. And these insurgencies likewise accomplished nothing, except to bring about the death of hundreds of thousands, and to set back the cause of Latin-American democracy—a tragedy on the hugest scale.

The Death of Che Guevara: Declassified


by Peter Kornbluh

On October 9th, 1967, Ernesto "Che" Guevara was put to death by Bolivian soldiers, trained, equipped and guided by U.S. Green Beret and CIA operatives. His execution remains a historic and controversial event; and thirty years later, the circumstances of his guerrilla foray into Bolivia, his capture, killing, and burial are still the subject of intense public interest and discussion around the world.
As part of the thirtieth anniversary of the death of Che Guevara, the National Security Archive's Cuba Documentation Project is posting a selection of key CIA, State Department, and Pentagon documentation relating to Guevara and his death. This electronic documents book is compiled from declassified records obtained by the National Security Archive, and by authors of two new books on Guevara: Jorge Castañeda's Compañero: The Life and Death of Che Guevara (Knopf), and Henry Butterfield Ryan's The Fall of Che Guevara (Oxford University Press). The selected documents, presented in order of the events they depict, provide only a partial picture of U.S. intelligence and military assessments, reports and extensive operations to track and "destroy" Che Guevara's guerrillas in Bolivia; thousands of CIA and military records on Guevara remain classified. But they do offer significant and valuable information on the high-level U.S. interest in tracking his revolutionary activities, and U.S. and Bolivian actions leading up to his death.


Im sure this gonna be moved to "Know the Ledge" but I hardly see headz goin there.

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
12-15-2006, 06:52 PM
Che was Castro's right hand man he helped keep the US government from controlling Cuba??

noel411
12-15-2006, 07:04 PM
I didn't read all of this thread, but my take on people who wear Che Guevara shirts is that they're some of the biggest posers out there. I went to surf shop once an they had a surfboard shaped stand as the edge of a clothes rack, with a picture of Che Guevara on it, and I had to use everything I had to restrain myself from going back there and massacring everybody who worked there. I saw a car with a Che Guevara sticker on it the other day too. I was gonna wait for the owner and strangle them with a bit of fishing line, but I was in a hurry.

Anyway, I read a book of all the speeches and writings of Che, and I really found it quite boring. It was really fucken long too. Some of it was interesting, some was boring as fuck. As for the man, I respect him. The thing I found with his speeches and writings was that he relied too much on the commitment of his people to cause change. He had all these ideas but they he needed everybody to agree with him for them to actually be carried out. Still, he fought and died for a good cause. I respect that.

I wouldn't bother reading any bullshit articles about how "good" or "bad" he was. There's too much bullshit out there. I preferred to read the words from the man himself to get an idea of what he was about.

LHX
12-15-2006, 07:04 PM
somehow, the symbol of Che Guevara's face on a t-shirt has come to be synonymous wiff revoloution and activism

'rage against the machine'


but at this point it all seems to be about marketing and promotions

Che is a logo at this point

L~>1<~NKS
12-15-2006, 08:44 PM
You all've made good points. Especially the one about the articles. But comin from a Cubans perspective - I respeck no man who has to kill people for speakin freely about the way they feel. Communism and oppression in anyway iz never a good thing anywhere.

Assassinz are assassinz - they kill because it's there way or IT'S A BULLET IN UR HEAD. I mean could u beleive that people weren't allowed to play saxaphones in Cuba when these knuckleheadz took over cuz they said it was invented by Adolph Sax who was born in Belgium and that cuntry was part of "the axis of evil"....MID U THIS WAS 1959 - A DECADE AND A HALF AFTER WWII.

And true Batista was the worst dictator Cuba ever had @ the time, but when he left (allegedly cuz the US gave him sum type of "offer") Castro and Che threw the Cuban people a curve ball, like Bush throws us hiz curve ballz and lied and decieved to their people and massacred them.

Point iz that female got me heated, I'd fuck her brains out though. Maybe I misinterpered her or sum shit? Fuck it.

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
12-15-2006, 09:18 PM
Communism is what it is another system of control...

Castro is what he is a Dictator...

Che was what he was a man who had vision...

They both wanted to eliminate US control from small 3rd world countries...


BTW You ever see the documentary "The revolution will be televised"?

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
12-15-2006, 09:19 PM
I'm gonna move this to KTL now!

brown_dogg
12-15-2006, 09:19 PM
And true Batista was the worst dictator Cuba ever had @ the time, but when he left (allegedly cuz the US gave him sum type of "offer") Castro and Che threw the Cuban people a curve ball, like Bush throws us hiz curve ballz and lied and decieved to their people and massacred them.


I thought Batista left because Castro attacked and overthrew him. He fled on Jan 1st i think. He was a dictator cuz the U.S. instated him though.

Synthetic
12-15-2006, 09:22 PM
Che Was A G Dont Hate

L~>1<~NKS
12-16-2006, 10:32 AM
Communism is what it is another system of control...

Castro is what he is a Dictator...

Che was what he was a man who had vision...

They both wanted to eliminate US control from small 3rd world countries...


BTW You ever see the documentary "The revolution will be televised"?


Che may've had a vision, but then what - he got killed, why cuz he was still followed a dictator instead of putting hiz visionz to work. Actions speak louder than wordz Ben... Che was a coward IMO.


I've only heard about the doc - never got around to readin it.

L~>1<~NKS
12-16-2006, 10:38 AM
Che Was A G Dont Hate


Exactly he was a gangsta - but he killed people who had passions. He killed cuz it wuz hiz way or Castro's way or fuck u.

That ain't the G ur talkin about sun, that ain't the G I know - so if u gon type sumthin that fuckin ridiculous express and stretch that shit so I can actually contimplate.

TAURO
12-16-2006, 11:56 AM
Im so gonna post some shit here but I don't have time now.........I wanna get into this with you Links.

L~>1<~NKS
12-16-2006, 12:57 PM
Im so gonna post some shit here but I don't have time now.........I wanna get into this with you Links.

Dale.

L~>1<~NKS
12-16-2006, 01:19 PM
I couldn't have said it better myself (what the student wrote)


Che Guevara's Dubious Legacy


"Hatred is an element of struggle; relentless hatred of the enemy that impels us over and beyond the natural limitations of man and transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines. Our soldiers must be thus; a people without hatred cannot vanquish a brutal enemy." http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/che.jpg
Che Guevara
Message to the Tricontinental
1967

In the United States the generation of the 1960's spoke often about love and peace, yet this generation carried the image of a man who advocated the use of hatred as a means to an end into their marches and into their dormitories. The image of Che Guevara hanging in the College dorms of young student radicals in the 90's may be cliche, but his message is not. In his Message to the Tricontinental Guevara argued that hatred was something to be harnessed and used for as he put it, "an element of struggle." Not only as an element to struggle against injustice, but to be used to perpetrate new injustices. Guevara describes the utilization of hatred or as he put it "relentless hatred" to "impel us over and beyond the natural limitations of man." This use of hatred to encourage the dehumanization of ones enemy is but another manifestation of the doctrine found throughout the centuries to justify mass murder and torture.

If hate was the solution to all our problems than the victors of this century would have been men like: Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. Instead they are viewed in most quarters as mass murderers and criminals except for those who are blinded by their "relentless hatred" of their fellow man. History has demonstrated two fundamental approaches to change the face of the world. One way views hatred as an element of the struggle and has been the way for such leaders as: Lenin, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and Fidel Castro.
The second way is an alternative to harnessing hatred, and tragically it is the road less traveled. It is the path blazed with the words of Jesus Christ who said, "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you." This path has and continues to be followed by men of such diverse backgrounds as Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Lech Walesa, and Vaclav Havel. These men have demonstrated that hatred is something to be overcome, not an "element of struggle," but rather a stumbling block to freedom.
Ours is a battle both of the soul and the material realm. Our enemy is hatred. We have good reason to hate Fidel Castro and his co-conspirators. They have imprisoned tens of thousands of prisoners of conscience, attempted to brainwash a generation, enslaved the Cuban people in a retro-feudal state Castroism created, they have divided families, made political ideology a litmus test for patriotism, created an exile that comprises nearly 20% of the Cuban population,and murdered thousands.
To defeat despotism, we must conquer and destroy our own hatred. We must reject Che Guevara's argument that hatred is good because it, "transforms us into effective, violent, selective, and cold killing machines." We must act not out of hatred for Castro,but out of love for the Cuban people. This should be what drives our purpose and our strategies to bring liberty and justice to the Cuban nation. We will not compromise with evil. We will overcome it. We will exercise our fundamental rights as Cubans and as human beings to be free and moral beings. If they wish to butcher us or imprison us, then it is they who are at fault. If we are to die for the cause of freedom while exercising our God given rights, then we have done nothing wrong.
On July 13, 1994 Castro's agents attacked a tug-boat full of women and children trying to head for sanctuary in a foreign land. They were met by tugs who used high pressure hoses to knock these refugees overboard into the sea, and later these agents rammed the boat drowning 41 passengers. 21 of which were women and children.
One year later on July 13, 1995 Cuban exiles traveled in a flotilla into Cuban waters to honor those who had been massacred a year earlier seeking freedom. We were met by military gunboats, military helicopters, and military jets. We came bearing white roses and a priest to pray over the watery grave of the victims. As we exercised our fundamental right to enter and exit our national territory, the lead ship, Democracia, was rammed, and exiles seriously injured. The exile's response to the military personnel was "brothers, please don't do this."
On October 10, 1995 the Cuban Council "Concilio Cubano" was born, a coalition of civic, political, labor, and human rights organizations joined together in the rebirth of Cuba's civil and moral society. 130 opposition groups joined together on the following mutual points of agreement: respect for human rights, amnesty for all political prisoners, and the re-establishment of the rule of for all Cubans inside and outside of Cuba. The Cuban Council requested permission to hold a national convention on Feb. 24, 1996. Castro could not allow such a coalition to exist because it is a mortal threat to him. This Council looks to the future of the Cuban nation, and charts a course away from the culture of hatred, death, and disaster Castro has brought to the island.
On February 24, 1996 when Concilio Cubano was to meet; Cuba's secret police continued the sweep started weeks earlier to crush the coalition, and Cuban MiGs killed four men who at the time were engaged in a search and rescue mission for Cuban rafters in the Florida Straits. One of these men, Armando Alejandre Jr. was a member of the Committee in support of the Cuban Council in Miami. He was also a 1988 graduate of Florida International University.
How has the exile responded to these outrages: with prayer, sadness for those who have lost loved ones, a renewed call to non-violent confrontation, and finally with another flotilla to honor those who perished at the hands of a tyranny driven by hate.
Che's legacy in Cuba is one neighbor spying on another, high suicide rates, and a generation of young Cubans risking their lives on rafts in the Florida Straits rather than continue to live under a despotic government. A people cannot prosper in a regime founded and based in hatred. We must transcend hate, and we must overcome evil for Cuba to be free. By John Suarez


Only thing about thiz iz - I'll fight b4 I pray, but never out of hate, I'll fight for the People of Cuba and for those that struggle like us or worse than us - real talk.

Big Lu where u @!?! Get in on this one sun.... I gotta go to a Xmas party and get blasted and fuck women (I hope)

P.E.A.C.E.

Frontal Lobotomy
12-16-2006, 01:46 PM
He was a good man, who lived and died for the people. I'm sure he's turning in his unmarked grave at the prospect of all the faux socialists out there wearing t-shirts with his face on them

MsRzaRecTaH
12-19-2006, 08:50 AM
Yo Ill Build With This You Later.. At Home...
I Guess You Would Have To Really Understand The Scene Behind All
Politics .. We Shall Build Later..
Peace

knewcheeze
12-19-2006, 10:28 AM
PEACE
che was a great great man

they didn't execute anyone who didn't deserve it

they always took prisoners and set them free after treating their wounds

the only people who hate che are people who love USA imperialism

Malcom Guevera
12-19-2006, 06:49 PM
Che was a great part of me growing and developing as a person. To me when his name is mentioned it coencides with all the beleifs and hopes I want to cee take place in the future. I've read about him, heard many speeches and wish he were alive, the only coward is the faggot trained to take him down.

Ultimate Fist
12-19-2006, 11:27 PM
PEACE
che was a great great man

they didn't execute anyone who didn't deserve it

they always took prisoners and set them free after treating their wounds

the only people who hate che are people who love USA imperialism

And the only people who think Robert Mugabe is corrupt are racists...

Where do you dumb bitch niggas come from? Just because somebody says they're fighting for what's right dont make it true. If you really believe he was a swell guy, argue that he was. Don't be a bitch and just call someone an imperialist. That's for tight-pants crackers in college who think they're "revolutionaries".

I know a lot of Cuban people wear shirts with Che's face crossed out. What does that tell you?

Do you see niggas wearing shirts with Malcolm X's face crossed out?

I've never seen one.

knewcheeze
12-20-2006, 11:21 AM
PEACE
oh my goodness....
okay you need to read some books or sum shit....

1)TODAY in this day and time there are followers of Elijah Muhammad(and others) who still talk badly about Malcolm...still call him number one hypocrite....they don't wear shirts with his face crossed out but....regardless that point you made is completely wrong!!!!!!

2)the Cubans who hate Che are either white cubans, or Cubans who love the mafia, homosexuals, USA corporations, and USA imperialism in general. They want Cuba to be the Soddom and Gamorrah that happens when your country becomes a USA puppet!!!!!

3)Che was a great great great man...He was basically a KING in Cuba....yet he worked TIRELESSLY 7 days a week doing labor wearing himself out...doing manual labor i might add....the people loved him...even during the sierra maestra days he was known as the rebel on a donkey...the people loved him...i seen film footage of campesino women crying about when Che was wounded....he could have lived his life in cuba and lived in luxary but he chose to go some JUNGLE and under the WORST conditions(no baths, no food) and kill IMPERIALISTS....your faggot ass is too scared to do such things....don't be jealous cuz your too scared to pick up a gun and kill devils...shit...im too scared to pick up a gun....thats why i would never disrespect che....he did what we are too scared to do......you ain't shit and never gonna be shit...don't hate on che cuz he is somebody!!!!!!

if it wasn't for Che and Castro little Cuban children would be working in factories for 2 cents an hour, illiterate with no health care....

L~>1<~NKS
12-20-2006, 04:42 PM
PEACE
oh my goodness....
okay you need to read some books or sum shit....

1)TODAY in this day and time there are followers of Elijah Muhammad(and others) who still talk badly about Malcolm...still call him number one hypocrite....they don't wear shirts with his face crossed out but....regardless that point you made is completely wrong!!!!!!

2)the Cubans who hate Che are either white cubans, or Cubans who love the mafia, homosexuals, USA corporations, and USA imperialism in general. They want Cuba to be the Soddom and Gamorrah that happens when your country becomes a USA puppet!!!!!

3)Che was a great great great man...He was basically a KING in Cuba....yet he worked TIRELESSLY 7 days a week doing labor wearing himself out...doing manual labor i might add....the people loved him...even during the sierra maestra days he was known as the rebel on a donkey...the people loved him...i seen film footage of campesino women crying about when Che was wounded....he could have lived his life in cuba and lived in luxary but he chose to go some JUNGLE and under the WORST conditions(no baths, no food) and kill IMPERIALISTS....your faggot ass is too scared to do such things....don't be jealous cuz your too scared to pick up a gun and kill devils...shit...im too scared to pick up a gun....thats why i would never disrespect che....he did what we are too scared to do......you ain't shit and never gonna be shit...don't hate on che cuz he is somebody!!!!!!

if it wasn't for Che and Castro little Cuban children would be working in factories for 2 cents an hour, illiterate with no health care....


You misguided communist mufucka - has ur ignorant ass been reading the articles I posted? This has nothing to do with race, nation color, creed, or sexual preference. Historically Cuban people have been very passionate about their own people and culture no matter who they are or about.

Castro and Che were Assassins and Executionerz that killed people who were against them - it's that simple, Castro iz a tyrant and Che was the tyrants puppet! They killed people who played saxaphones jus because it was invented by a Belgian!!!

That whole thing about the US waz a front. Yall should know by now that the US was shady on the Bay of Pigz and The Kennedy drama (take a wild guess as to why).

And as to ur comment on the kidz and Che helpin the community blahzy blah - all that was manipulation to have the people think they were all noble and shit when infact they where the tyrants and imperialists!!!

So check this out I suggest u rent this flick called "THE LOST CITY" w/ Andy Garcia (playz a club owner), Dustin Hoffman (playz Mayer Lansky) Bill Murry (playz... a comedian ironically)
...it's not a borin flick @ all - especially if ur passionate about what u beleive in (and it's got every thing that was happening @ the time of Castro's regime includin El Che). The film is dead accurate and it shows in some partz accual footage of the executions that took place,It's got history and it's got style - so copp it when u get a chance.

and regarding what you typed::::

"He could have lived his life in cuba and lived in luxary but he chose to go some JUNGLE and under the WORST conditions(no baths, no food) and kill IMPERIALISTS....your faggot ass is too scared to do such things....don't be jealous cuz your too scared to pick up a gun and kill devils...shit...im too scared to pick up a gun....thats why i would never disrespect che....he did what we are too scared to do......you ain't shit and never gonna be shit...don't hate on che cuz he is somebody!!!!!!"

No man should ever, kill another man unless he fightz for hiz family and hiz freedom! No human being should ever be supressed in this world!

Dog beleive me I ain't the faggot u was refferin too - I ain't that nigga sun, I fight for mine. Nuff said - cuz Im not about to sound like sum kucklehead intraweb thug.

And u began the verse wit PEACE - fuck outta wit ya hipocracy dunny.

Here's the L1NKS to my thread on THE LOST CITY:
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=686025#post686025

Ultimate Fist
12-20-2006, 07:39 PM
PEACE


if it wasn't for Che and Castro little Cuban children would be working in factories for 2 cents an hour, illiterate with no health care....


And that's different from Cuba today, how?

knewcheeze
12-26-2006, 01:04 PM
the cubans that don't support the revolution are generally homosexual, white, pro-mafia, pro-imperialism, pro-usa company, pro-aparthied...no big mystery

links don't try to intimidate me!!!! yes eye know anti castro cubans joined with the mafia, and CIA, the military, the homosexual pedofiles and god knows who else to kill John F Kennedy....eye know how you vampires get down...theres a anti castro cuban named RAOL who was behind the pickett fence at the grassy knowl and also was involved in Martin luther kings assasination as well......just don't crash a commercial aircraft into my house :)



but your facts aren't adding up....the people loved Che and them for a reason....

bay of pigs? go ask nel carter to give me a break son....what were the pig of pigs invaders doing the night before they invaded Cuba and got a mudhole stomped by Che and them? answer....they were fukin each other in the ass

castro is not perfect but hes 100 percent better than any USA puppet dictator any day....40 years of covert war and sanctions by the great beast is no joke.......

its just a shame you try to throw dirt on a man who died for YOU....but he is still alive and when you kill him he will return and continue to return until your people are off the planet once and for all

Ultimate Fist
12-26-2006, 03:36 PM
links don't try to intimidate me!!!! yes eye know anti castro cubans joined with the mafia, and CIA, the military, the homosexual pedofiles and god knows who else to kill John F Kennedy....eye know how you vampires get down...theres a anti castro cuban named RAOL who was behind the pickett fence at the grassy knowl and also was involved in Martin luther kings assasination as well......just don't crash a commercial aircraft into my house :)



but your facts aren't adding up....the people loved Che and them for a reason....

bay of pigs? go ask nel carter to give me a break son....what were the pig of pigs invaders doing the night before they invaded Cuba and got a mudhole stomped by Che and them? answer....they were fukin each other in the ass

castro is not perfect but hes 100 percent better than any USA puppet dictator any day....40 years of covert war and sanctions by the great beast is no joke.......

its just a shame you try to throw dirt on a man who died for YOU....but he is still alive and when you kill him he will return and continue to return until your people are off the planet once and for all

Learn how to spell "I". It will get you more respect.

And what the fuck are you talking about with this gay shit?

Nigga learn to write. You're rambling.

L~>1<~NKS
12-27-2006, 09:14 PM
the cubans that don't support the revolution are generally homosexual, white, pro-mafia, pro-imperialism, pro-usa company, pro-aparthied...no big mystery

links don't try to intimidate me!!!! yes eye know anti castro cubans joined with the mafia, and CIA, the military, the homosexual pedofiles and god knows who else to kill John F Kennedy....eye know how you vampires get down...theres a anti castro cuban named RAOL who was behind the pickett fence at the grassy knowl and also was involved in Martin luther kings assasination as well......just don't crash a commercial aircraft into my house :)



but your facts aren't adding up....the people loved Che and them for a reason....

bay of pigs? go ask nel carter to give me a break son....what were the pig of pigs invaders doing the night before they invaded Cuba and got a mudhole stomped by Che and them? answer....they were fukin each other in the ass

castro is not perfect but hes 100 percent better than any USA puppet dictator any day....40 years of covert war and sanctions by the great beast is no joke.......

its just a shame you try to throw dirt on a man who died for YOU....but he is still alive and when you kill him he will return and continue to return until your people are off the planet once and for all


"bay of pigs? go ask nel carter to give me a break son....what were the pig of pigs invaders doing the night before they invaded Cuba and got a mudhole stomped by Che and them? answer....they were fukin each other in the ass"

I ain't for Homo'z dunny - but why do u keep typin bout em???

Kephrem
12-28-2006, 12:43 AM
........

knewcheeze
12-28-2006, 10:04 AM
hmmmm kephie pies...i don't know how you think native americans are "Isreal" when they came to north america about 13,000 years before Jacob was even born......i guess some people don't read books

kephie....u already been intellectually stomped out by me on so many occasions.....why do u continue?


i think eye already tolds you that in those days a country could either be funded by the Soviets or the United Snakes....both were wicked but thats just how it was.....its funny how these 9 to 5 puppets think they can run a country better than castro.....a 9 to 5 puppet talking bad about one of the few people who protected Bro Huey Newton, Assata.....

you looser nobody i ain't doing shit type dudes love talking shit about people who actually done something

classic kephrem shit.....who talks badly about the NOI/NGE for years and then jumps on the Farrakhan factor asking questions like he's sincere....fake-ness....be a man!!!!!!

Gawd
12-28-2006, 10:06 AM
i dont like communists or socialists or marxists or maoists

LHX
12-28-2006, 10:33 AM
nobody can deny that Che's image has become a logo that people capitalize off of

knewcheeze
12-29-2006, 10:23 AM
LHX=as long as it annoys people then capitalize all you want

eD=the bible and quran are socialist documents. The bible says the land should be redistributed equally every 50 years.

Gawd
12-29-2006, 10:24 AM
LHX=as long as it annoys people then capitalize all you want

eD=the bible and quran are socialist documents. The bible says the land should be redistributed equally every 50 years.

Socialism in our sociaty breeds laziness.

TAURO
12-29-2006, 12:02 PM
There is a lot I could say about Che but to be honest it is a difficult topic to get into over the net, I have read a book about his entire life written by neutral observer who actually went and got 80% of his information first hand from the people that mattered and of course through other sources as well. I have seen countless documentarys on Che and the cuban revolution too.

For a Cuban american I can understand LINKS's point of view and no matter what information I know of Che I can't say that it is 100% accurate, while I don't agree with the notion of communism nor do I think it works for me Che is a symbol of impact a latino can have in the western world and is the embodyment of hard work and dedication to a belief system, right or wrong in his beliefs is always open to debate but the point of the matter is he believed in a better world for all latinos and that we would not be seen as lower than the superpowers of today and in that regard he has my complete respect.

harm77
12-29-2006, 01:18 PM
ok lets keep it real 4 a minute. most of yall corny motherfuckers in hiphop never knew who he was till Jayz wore a t shirt with his face on it at mtv unplugged .

Gawd
12-29-2006, 01:35 PM
Who the fuck is Jay Z?

HANZO
12-29-2006, 01:56 PM
Who the fuck is Jay Z?

another communist

Ultimate Fist
12-29-2006, 02:55 PM
There is a lot I could say about Che but to be honest it is a difficult topic to get into over the net, I have read a book about his entire life written by neutral observer who actually went and got 80% of his information first hand from the people that mattered and of course through other sources as well. I have seen countless documentarys on Che and the cuban revolution too.

For a Cuban american I can understand LINKS's point of view and no matter what information I know of Che I can't say that it is 100% accurate, while I don't agree with the notion of communism nor do I think it works for me Che is a symbol of impact a latino can have in the western world and is the embodyment of hard work and dedication to a belief system, right or wrong in his beliefs is always open to debate but the point of the matter is he believed in a better world for all latinos and that we would not be seen as lower than the superpowers of today and in that regard he has my complete respect.

I feel what you're saying.

My whole thing with him, and everyone else, is that you gotta look at the good and the bad. Che espcially has always seemed to me to fall in the "grey" both good and bad in different ways.

DREW-DIE$EL
12-29-2006, 03:23 PM
The bible says the land should be redistributed equally every 50 years.

that's old testament duke. When Christ was born the Jubilee ceremony was no longer necessary.

TAURO
12-30-2006, 10:16 AM
I feel what you're saying.

My whole thing with him, and everyone else, is that you gotta look at the good and the bad. Che espcially has always seemed to me to fall in the "grey" both good and bad in different ways.

That seems to be the case.

Kephrem
12-31-2006, 06:28 PM
.......

maestro wooz
01-01-2007, 12:44 AM
interesting thread, to be honest i never really looked in to che too much. I've always seen him on those t-shirts and felt it was cliche as hell. Links' viewpoint is one i never really heard too much of and i think it probaly holds some validity, but i think to disregard everything he did as wrong isn't right cause im sure he fought for a good cause, maybe just the wrong way.

ilzPotent
01-01-2007, 08:53 PM
good thread links -

To state that everything bad or good that you read about is true is like this: Sometimes you have to take whats inbetween to find the truth. As a US citizen I say the US invovlement in Cuban Communist Policies is wrong, just like the middle east but history repeat itself and we never learn. The notion that every other country should be like us is just wrong on so many levels. Then you have someone like Che who would basically die for what he believes in and to us its seems barbaric but when you grow up a certain way - thats what you believe. Its quite extreme but he had an unyielding respect for Fidel.

Now with that said - how can you as an individual respect Gotti - or wear anything with Scarface or appreciate Godfather or Pablo Escobar or Hitler or any other tyrant that is iconically worshipped today? Well apply this to CHE - Some people wearing the shirts pins etc have no idea what he's done in life let alone who he is, but some just respect the tenacity behind his ideals.

TAURO
01-01-2007, 09:56 PM
^^But the thing about Che was that he grew up middle class, was well on his way to becoming a doctor and lead a wealthy comfortable life, only the experiences of what he witnessed throughout his travels in his early twenties through south america did he realise that massive inequalitys which plagued his home land and through this he began to become more politically aware and thus would sacrifice his privillaged life to a cause he believed in.

You made a good point about these gangters that people seem to idolise but I think when it doesn't directly affect you people don't really care, as a Colombian and since my family are from Medellin I am fully aware of the negative impact Pablo Escobar had and because of this I do not look at him with a glance of admiration like a lot of people who were not affected by him tend to do, so in relation Links would understandibly feel the same about Che because of his involvment in cuba's communist regime.

ilzPotent
01-01-2007, 10:48 PM
excellent point.

Just recently, I read an article in the NY Post regarding herman badillo, the first puerto rican congressman. He wrote a book and loosely quoted he basically said that latin communities don't make education a point in their households and we as a whole don't incite knowledge in our youth. How can I support this fellow "jibaro" when he has severed his ties with his own people and rather than generalize actually cite certain aspects that would make that statement true. Don't bunch me up with a group. I am an educated latin woman who is proud of my roots and I'll be damn if this man tries to say that spanish mothers don't go to school to parent teacher conferences and don't care if you do homework.

Werd up - I don't know who raised this lost jibaro (he was an orphan) - but my mom use to make me smell a fat leather belt at just a thought of not doing all my homework. Unable to speak English well, she would be at all parent-teacher nights... for the whole lot of us.... ahh pues ja tu sabes. I won't be rocking a shirt with a picture of herman badillo, the first puerto rican congressman, anytime is the near future.

TAURO
01-01-2007, 11:07 PM
excellent point.

Just recently, I read an article in the NY Post regarding herman badillo, the first puerto rican congressman. He wrote a book and loosely quoted he basically said that latin communities don't make education a point in their households and we as a whole don't incite knowledge in our youth. How can I support this fellow "jibaro" when he has severed his ties with his own people and rather than generalize actually cite certain aspects that would make that statement true. Don't bunch me up with a group. I am an educated latin woman who is proud of my roots and I'll be damn if this man tries to say that spanish mothers don't go to school to parent teacher conferences and don't care if you do homework.

Werd up - I don't know who raised this lost jibaro (he was an orphan) - but my mom use to make me smell a fat leather belt at just a thought of not doing all my homework. Unable to speak English well, she would be at all parent-teacher nights... for the whole lot of us.... ahh pues ja tu sabes. I won't be rocking a shirt with a picture of herman badillo, the first puerto rican congressman, anytime is the near future.

It's hard for me to comment without first finding out more information on him, I could very easily make a snap judgment about his comments but since I haven't read his book his views could have been taken out of context so I can't really talk about the man, but without making excuses for him you did state that he was an orphan so it is possible that he was never culturally connected in the first place. What really bothers me about these "ethnic" politicians is that they come across very white washed and completley disconnected with their heritage and sometimes it can't be helped I mean I don't know the statistics but how many latinos are at university? and in particular the top schools, for the most part the few latinos that go to these schools mix within predominatly white social groups so in turn develop an outsiders view on things when it comes to their own people and in turn judge them more harshly because they only let themselves see the negative side.

ilzPotent
01-01-2007, 11:55 PM
It's hard for me to comment without first finding out more information on him, I could very easily make a snap judgment about his comments but since I haven't read his book his views could have been taken out of context so I can't really talk about the man, but without making excuses for him you did state that he was an orphan so it is possible that he was never culturally connected in the first place. What really bothers me about these "ethnic" politicians is that they come across very white washed and completley disconnected with their heritage and sometimes it can't be helped I mean I don't know the statistics but how many latinos are at university? and in particular the top schools, for the most part the few latinos that go to these schools mix within predominatly white social groups so in turn develop an outsiders view on things when it comes to their own people and in turn judge them more harshly because they only let themselves see the negative side.


He is very open about his genaralizing, he's not afraid of the "stereotyping" charge and he will make that very clear. Look up trhe book. im halfway through with it and i really don't understand half his views, he was not raised like us.

I understand what he is saying but I don't know where he gets them from. guiliani wrote the forward....

TAURO
01-03-2007, 05:41 PM
Links needs to come back to this thread, in fact anyone who is of latin origin should post here, convo is getting good.

eVoL
01-03-2007, 06:28 PM
most of you "latins" are a disgrace to the name.

che was a nobody, just a famous mercenary for a stupid cause

all of you latins (non-messicans) are just power hungry drug-peddlers, coup de'taut-ing your governments whenever you want golden slippers, it's disgusting really.. whether you're US-CIA-backed or communist-backed, just a bunch of greedy beaners

do yourself a favor and google/wikipedia EZLN

L~>1<~NKS
01-03-2007, 08:38 PM
.

L~>1<~NKS
01-03-2007, 08:39 PM
another communist


Im gon get back into this but...... LMFAO!!

L~>1<~NKS
01-03-2007, 08:56 PM
interesting thread, to be honest i never really looked in to che too much. I've always seen him on those t-shirts and felt it was cliche as hell. Links' viewpoint is one i never really heard too much of and i think it probaly holds some validity, but i think to disregard everything he did as wrong isn't right cause im sure he fought for a good cause, maybe just the wrong way.



Like anyone with social influence or social power.

Look, Che may have had powerful wordz - he did. But what wus done wus out weighed by what wus said, point blank

Anybody see the movie yet?

TAURO
01-03-2007, 10:19 PM
There is a lot I could say about Che but to be honest it is a difficult topic to get into over the net, I have read a book about his entire life written by neutral observer who actually went and got 80% of his information first hand from the people that mattered and of course through other sources as well. I have seen countless documentarys on Che and the cuban revolution too.

For a Cuban american I can understand LINKS's point of view and no matter what information I know of Che I can't say that it is 100% accurate, while I don't agree with the notion of communism nor do I think it works for me Che is a symbol of impact a latino can have in the western world and is the embodyment of hard work and dedication to a belief system, right or wrong in his beliefs is always open to debate but the point of the matter is he believed in a better world for all latinos and that we would not be seen as lower than the superpowers of today and in that regard he has my complete respect.

Like anyone with social influence or social power.

Look, Che may have had powerful wordz - he did. But what wus done wus out weighed by what wus said, point blank

Anybody see the movie yet?

The statement I made earlier explains my admiration for Che but Links you have to understand that Che's cause was a noble one, he believed what he thought was right at the time and joining Fidel to overthrow a dictator seemed like a good place to start for the future development of latin america including the islands, he couldn't have predicted the outcome of Cuba today, not to mention that there where rumours circulating that Che grew dissatisfied by how Fidel and Raul where running things and their growing relationship with the ever growing fascism of the Soviet Union which was why he departed Cuba with the intention of never returning. I don't agree with the notion of Communism and I believe in democracy yet you only have to look at your current president, the talk of vote fixing plagues Bushes campaign, the fact that he went to war without just cause just so he could finish what his father started. America is riddled with poverty, racism and inequality; are things really any better under a different regime?

And yes I have seen the movie.

eVoL
01-03-2007, 11:16 PM
are things really any better under a different regime?
Yes. Compare Cuba's economy to ours - economy is everything, that is why the Soviets dumped their ideology with the Chinks falling close behind (except for the North Koreans)

TAURO
01-03-2007, 11:39 PM
Yes. Compare Cuba's economy to ours - economy is everything, that is why the Soviets dumped their ideology with the Chinks falling close behind (except for the North Koreans)

Economiclly yes but Bush is no better than Fidel.

eVoL
01-03-2007, 11:44 PM
No politician is better than the other.

ilzPotent
01-03-2007, 11:46 PM
most of you "latins" are a disgrace to the name.

che was a nobody, just a famous mercenary for a stupid cause

all of you latins (non-messicans) are just power hungry drug-peddlers, coup de'taut-ing your governments whenever you want golden slippers, it's disgusting really.. whether you're US-CIA-backed or communist-backed, just a bunch of greedy beaners

do yourself a favor and google/wikipedia EZLN

:no: thats just not true... i hate grouping, generalizing.... hmp...

TAURO
01-03-2007, 11:46 PM
my point exactly.

Edit: in refference to evols last post.

eVoL
01-03-2007, 11:48 PM
Don't blame me. Blame the people who invented and applied the term "Latin" to peoples..

dimi
01-04-2007, 12:17 AM
what did you want to prove with that movie "The Lost City"

L~>1<~NKS
01-04-2007, 08:04 PM
The statement I made earlier explains my admiration for Che but Links you have to understand that Che's cause was a noble one, he believed what he thought was right at the time and joining Fidel to overthrow a dictator seemed like a good place to start for the future development of latin america including the islands, he couldn't have predicted the outcome of Cuba today, not to mention that there where rumours circulating that Che grew dissatisfied by how Fidel and Raul where running things and their growing relationship with the ever growing fascism of the Soviet Union which was why he departed Cuba with the intention of never returning. I don't agree with the notion of Communism and I believe in democracy yet you only have to look at your current president, the talk of vote fixing plagues Bushes campaign, the fact that he went to war without just cause just so he could finish what his father started. America is riddled with poverty, racism and inequality; are things really any better under a different regime?

And yes I have seen the movie.



See now Im calm knowin that - there's sombody that can type sum knowledge into me, but I still disugree with the way Che handled shit, to me and those who have lived through the era, hiz nobilty wus fabricated (like Fidels) to deceive the masses. I mean maybe he did become disgusted wit the way Fidel and Raul wus handling shit after the takeover, maybe it's why they say Fidel had Che killed workin wit.... u guessed it, the US. There's alot of debate, but my point iz should nobody be wearing a murder's shirt especially when u have no knowledge of HIStory - regardless of hiz intensionz good or bad.

I mean what now we're gon have knuckleheadz wearin BUSH shirts cuz he took down Saddam??? Come on sun...

Anyway the point of the movie isn't much of a point, it practically jus reminded me of my cuntries history, but it also iz a true story of a man who struggled with keeping hiz passion, music, as unpolitical as possible, to keep it pure.

It didn't really focus on Che', but the few scenes in the flick do capture him like he was dead on IMO.

I also thought the flick deserved sum more attention than it wus givin.

L~>1<~NKS
01-04-2007, 08:07 PM
:no: thats just not true... i hate grouping, generalizing.... hmp...


Wus "hmp"?

dimi
01-05-2007, 01:26 AM
the movie showed rich people not liking that their fortune is taken away
its common in every socialist coutry

but a good movie besides that

knewcheeze
01-05-2007, 09:52 AM
the homo-gunman at the grassy knowl have invaded this thread

shame on you trying to throw dirt on a good man

socialism breeds lazyness??? If you study the lifestyle of aboriginals its about nature, and laying back and enjoying life...only under colonialism is there a need to wear yourself out just to eat...."socialism breeds laziness" says the slave-master to the sufferer....who you are u to say one is lazy when you damn near destroyed the planet?

eye recently spoke to an Ethiopian who recently went to Cuba and said it was one of the best places he ever went to.....he said everthing is free....he said at the airport theres a free doctor there for anyone.....Che was damn near perfect....he only assasinated those who committed crimes against the people....he went to the Congo to avenge the death of Lumumba who was dragged around by his neck by CIA employees where he battled NAZI and BRitish mercenaries...

yes bitches.....it wasn't just Anti castro cubans at these training camps in southern USA.....it was NAZI and British mercenaries also....the same white devils that CHe was busting shots at in the COngo....

really....shame on you......your beloved people in hip hop culture are being oppressed.....CHe picked up a gun and died trying to destroy this beast and you lazy 9 to 5 puppets talk shit...he died for you

L~>1<~NKS
01-05-2007, 10:25 PM
the homo-gunman at the grassy knowl have invaded this thread

shame on you trying to throw dirt on a good man

socialism breeds lazyness??? If you study the lifestyle of aboriginals its about nature, and laying back and enjoying life...only under colonialism is there a need to wear yourself out just to eat...."socialism breeds laziness" says the slave-master to the sufferer....who you are u to say one is lazy when you damn near destroyed the planet?

eye recently spoke to an Ethiopian who recently went to Cuba and said it was one of the best places he ever went to.....he said everthing is free....he said at the airport theres a free doctor there for anyone.....Che was damn near perfect....he only assasinated those who committed crimes against the people....he went to the Congo to avenge the death of Lumumba who was dragged around by his neck by CIA employees where he battled NAZI and BRitish mercenaries...

yes bitches.....it wasn't just Anti castro cubans at these training camps in southern USA.....it was NAZI and British mercenaries also....the same white devils that CHe was busting shots at in the COngo....

really....shame on you......your beloved people in hip hop culture are being oppressed.....CHe picked up a gun and died trying to destroy this beast and you lazy 9 to 5 puppets talk shit...he died for you


Get off that racial shit sun - it's ain't my flava, and enough wit the homo shit it ain't my steez.

See that's the problem wit knuckleheadz, yall type sum real shit sumtimes - but then u go on and insult nations, colorz, and creedz. It ain't about any of that it's about POWER plain and simple like Fidel and Che in the end it's all about POWER TO BUILD A LEGACY of tyranny (as discreetly as possible - bfff).

And about that bullshit about an Ethyopian goin to Cuba and sayin everythin free and cool....

...you still don't get, it's a front - it's a mirage that's been placed over their eyes to make all the tourist's beleive that everythin's gravy.

I wonder which province this Eythyopian went to....

...Cuba is much bigger than Havana big dog, know that.

And if everythin's so free then why are their people risking there lives to come here everyday???


" CUBA ! (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100105317&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), THE BEST ISLANDS EVER !!!! (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100414091&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), No Che, No Fidel, No Socialist Puppets, No Problems ! (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100843676&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), Free Cuba Foundation (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=101718023&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), The Cuban Krew! (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100547470&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), CUBA'S FINEST (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100317227&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), The Cuban Connection (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100026192&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1), Cubans Only! (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100126831&MyToken=e3283311-7517-4e18-b482-6ec668f4b1a1) "

Shout to Risky Filmz

here get learned u knuckleheadz:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=109921377

L~>1<~NKS
01-05-2007, 10:46 PM
the movie showed rich people not liking that their fortune is taken away
its common in every socialist coutry

but a good movie besides that

Didn't matter if they were rich, this iz a true story - what mattered wus workin hard to build somethin THEN having it taken away from u.

Not all rich people are bad sun - all of them do actually work hard to get where they are. But sum people abuse that.
I mean Fico had Miyer Lansky offer him illigitamate business opportunities many times through out hiz life, but he stayed true to hiz passion and kept buildin.

The movie iz about overcoming oppression and finding the will to carry your passion.


El Tropico has some ill food by the way.

MsRzaRecTaH
01-05-2007, 10:52 PM
but my point iz should nobody be wearing a murder's shirt especially when u have no knowledge of HIStory - regardless of hiz intensionz good or bad.



Yo u were reffering to this right?? We shall build for sure...


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i298/MsRza/327.jpg

L~>1<~NKS
01-05-2007, 11:04 PM
^^^ :no:

TAURO
01-06-2007, 05:11 AM
I have a Che T shirt and his poster hangs on my wall but this was after I read up on him, it does bother me when people wear his face but don't know shit about him.

MsRzaRecTaH
01-06-2007, 10:18 AM
I read all about him.. we discuss him daily at work.. .we discuss Castro
.. I guess in order to understand what really goes on in those countries you would have to live there....
I work in the International Americas Division at my work.. so only the "latin"
people work there.. we only talk spanish..
and me listening to their stories made me understand why people chose to stand up and fight...
Im part Cuban.... my grandfather told me all about living there...
I know whats going on..

HANZO
01-06-2007, 10:46 AM
alot of my countrymen rock che t-shirts and necklaces. for them he represents socialism and revolution. its weird because che is the latin guy from the west. but his legacy has spread far to the east. it got me thinking, that he must of done something good. che has blood on his hands but he is also a latin hero. some may not agree with it. its like dat with all national icons. you have their supporters and there opposers. to me che is nothin more then another commie, he jus a latin version lenin.

knewcheeze
01-06-2007, 12:17 PM
every person i talk to who is not from this country says basically:

"america sucks, i am only here to make money"

stoopid fuck....the USA has made the world a living hell for every other country.....thats another reason people come to babi-lawn

L~>1<~NKS
01-06-2007, 03:44 PM
I live in Miami - I know headz that go there on the reg, I have family in Cuba - trust me I know what's goin on, my Island iz only 90 miles of the coast of Key West....

Tauro and Ms RZA what u wear by ya heartz and hang in ur rooms iz bullshit - PROPAGANDA!

Anyway, I still luv yall Latino Amercano Hip Hop mufuckaz

Para mis jente Cubana y humana:

xFPYJH-6QLU

IQspTWQZEgM


Viva Cuba - fuera con la politca cochina, Fuera con el tyrano Fidel!

Un Amor a vida asere!

UNCLE RUCKUS
01-06-2007, 04:45 PM
I live in Miami - I know headz that go there on the reg, I have family in Cuba - trust me I know what's goin on, my Island iz only 90 miles of the coast of Key West....

Tauro and Ms RZA what u wear by ya heartz and hang in ur rooms iz bullshit - PROPAGANDA!

Anyway, I still luv yall Latino Amercano Hip Hop mufuckaz

Para mis jente Cubana y humana:

xFPYJH-6QLU

IQspTWQZEgM


Viva Cuba - fuera con la politca cochina, Fuera con el tyrano Fidel!

Un Amor a vida asere!

I agree with you, even if you did agree with Che´s politics; then I think youre contradicting yourself by paying dollars for a Che shirt or poster its just hypocrisy. Revolution was Ghandi MLK Christ maybe but not Cuba that was just a bunch of rebels without a real sollution

MsRzaRecTaH
01-06-2007, 05:17 PM
Well I love ya to death.. I mean u might not agree with what he represented...
but I do.. If he was alive I tell him to do it all over again.. but then again its my opinion.. I know LINKS you will love me no matter what...

L~>1<~NKS
01-06-2007, 06:40 PM
Revolution iz cool depending on the way u carry it.

But what has revolution in Cuba tought us - it's unnessacery.

It's time for sumthin new.

"Instead of a little revolution, how bout a little EVOLUTION"

Peace.

MsRzaRecTaH
01-06-2007, 06:42 PM
Yeah we talked about that at work as well... by the way I changed myspace... I put new tracks for you to listen too while you at work hahaaha! Im a retard

L~>1<~NKS
01-06-2007, 08:04 PM
Yeah we talked about that at work as well... by the way I changed myspace... I put new tracks for you to listen too while you at work hahaaha! Im a retard


Werd. I added A few new vidz by Los Orishas to my pro check um out, Im feelin very Cuban these dayz.:cool:

M_N
01-07-2007, 06:03 AM
Che guevara was just communist, fuck comnunism

TAURO
01-07-2007, 08:21 AM
I live in Miami - I know headz that go there on the reg, I have family in Cuba - trust me I know what's goin on, my Island iz only 90 miles of the coast of Key West....

Tauro and Ms RZA what u wear by ya heartz and hang in ur rooms iz bullshit - PROPAGANDA!

Anyway, I still luv yall Latino Amercano Hip Hop mufuckaz

Para mis jente Cubana y humana:



Links, my intention was never to try and change your mind about Che per say but rather get a better understanding of Che as a whole before you passed sentence on him, also I think you are wrong to say that Che's image is propaganda because the fact is his imaged hasn't helped Cuba's rep much around the world, also you haven't really stated where you got your information from because even though you are Cuban I doubt you where raised there so I would gather you got your information just like everyone else, and I should point out that there is just as much negative information about Che than there is positive because books are based on one persons opinion but for the most part they where written by bitter former collegues of his who where just out to smear his name.
The book I read (called Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee) was written by a guy who was not a cuban and was not even a latino, this fact put him in a great neutral position of gathering all the information and separating the facts from the fiction, he even spent 3/4 years in Cuba speaking to various people who knew him for his book, other information he gathered came from America and Argentina so I figured his info would be non biased and after I read the book I felt that he covered all the angles well and since then I have yet to discover any other books about Che this thorough.

Che guevara was just communist, fuck comnunism

Pick up some books dude before you go making stupid comments.

L~>1<~NKS
01-07-2007, 04:19 PM
[quote=TAURO DA GRIM LATIN;701123]Links, my intention was never to try and change your mind about Che per say but rather get a better understanding of Che as a whole before you passed sentence on him, also I think you are wrong to say that Che's image is propaganda because the fact is his imaged hasn't helped Cuba's rep much around the world, also you haven't really stated where you got your information from because even though you are Cuban I doubt you where raised there so I would gather you got your information just like everyone else, and I should point out that there is just as much negative information about Che than there is positive because books are based on one persons opinion but for the most part they where written by bitter former collegues of his who where just out to smear his name.
The book I read (called Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life by Jon Lee) was written by a guy who was not a cuban and was not even a latino, this fact put him in a great neutral position of gathering all the information and separating the facts from the fiction, he even spent 3/4 years in Cuba speaking to various people who knew him for his book, other information he gathered came from America and Argentina so I figured his info would be non biased and after I read the book I felt that he covered all the angles well and since then I have yet to discover any other books about Che this thorough.




I don't believe in believin books anymore, they written by men - I go straight to tha source, men flip and bounce shit, jus look @ tha bible.

Im not sayin books are bullshit, but there's alot of bullshit in them - I jus read books to know what people think and I stress think.

My info comes from the people who I know that live or have lived on the island during that era.


Do you believe in communism Tauro??

L~>1<~NKS
01-07-2007, 04:25 PM
Che guevara was just communist, fuck comnunism


Ehh sort of,
He was involved in alot of shit - communism wus only a slice of the pie.

I def ugree though - FUCK COMMUNISM.

TAURO
01-07-2007, 05:21 PM
[I]

I don't believe in believin books anymore, they written by men - I go straight to tha source, men flip and bounce shit, jus look @ tha bible.

The bible was written by more than one person and subsequently went through many iterations keeping only the same text while 99% of books are written by just one person so I don't see how you can compare.

Im not sayin books are bullshit, but there's alot of bullshit in them - I jus read books to know what people think and I stress think.

My info comes from the people who I know that live or have lived on the island during that era. Your info comes from people and that is no different that reading someones view in a book, also I doubt the people you have spoken too have any true knowledge of what Che was about unless they knew him personally, these authors that write these books actually get their info from people who knew him, so answer me this Link, who would know better about Che's true intentions? the average person in Cuba? or the person that actually knew him?


Do you believe in communism Tauro??

C'mon dude, I already told you what I thought of communism.

L~>1<~NKS
01-07-2007, 05:47 PM
C'mon dude, I already told you what I thought of communism.


I don't believe in believin books anymore, they written by men - I go straight to tha source, men flip and bounce shit, jus look @ tha bible.

The bible was written by more than one person and subsequently went through many iterations keeping only the same text while 99% of books are written by just one person so I don't see how you can compare.

Im not sayin books are bullshit, but there's alot of bullshit in them - I jus read books to know what people think and I stress think.

My info comes from the people who I know that live or have lived on the island during that era. Your info comes from people and that is no different that reading someones view in a book, also I doubt the people you have spoken too have any true knowledge of what Che was about unless they knew him personally, these authors that write these books actually get their info from people who knew him, so answer me this Link, who would know better about Che's true intentions? the average person in Cuba? or the person that actually knew him?


Do you believe in communism Tauro??

"C'mon dude, I already told you what I thought of communism."

I'll go back a few pages then - I must've missed it.

I stand corrected on the book thing I kinda contradicted myself with what I typed.

Anyway what I ment was yes most of the people I gather the info from are like I typed from that era and they were livin in Cuba, so yeah maybe it is like readin form a book, but remember books get edited. I prefer talkin face to face with people and look into there eyes it jus feels more real. I mean I've posted shit on this thread of headz that've gon throught it - observin and learnin.

If my family and/or strange families tell me the same stories through out my life, then it must be true - but there are alwayz gon be more questions to ask.

In the end it jus comes down to what you believe.

TAURO
01-07-2007, 06:11 PM
I stand corrected on the book thing I kinda contradicted myself with what I typed.

Anyway what I ment was yes most of the people I gather the info from are like I typed from that era and they were livin in Cuba, so yeah maybe it is like readin form a book, but remember books get edited. I prefer talkin face to face with people and look into there eyes it jus feels more real. I mean I've posted shit on this thread of headz that've gon throught it - observin and learnin.

If my family and/or strange families tell me the same stories through out my life, then it must be true - but there are alwayz gon be more questions to ask.

In the end it jus comes down to what you believe.


Which was why I have not attempted to change your views just try to open your eyes a bit more, I fully understand your point of view (and your familys) regarding Che and the revolution but in many ways I do know how you feel, my country has been locked in civil war for nearly half a century, in fact one of the guerilla groups is in fact a remnant of the Che era originally trained in Cuba.

Your point about books being edited is valid but I have to say that the particular book I read on the subject was very well researched that it's very hard to dismiss, although like I had stated earlier I cant claim for sure that what I have read is 100% accurate im pretty sure that despite some of Che's more questionable methods and practices there was a noble cause behind it all, while Che may not have been the only Latino to do this he made a great impact in showing true latin pride and giving the united states a big fuck you for keeping us down even though they still do today.

As a british national with latin heritage I appreciate my roots because I see for myself how our people are viewed in economiclly strong countries, even here in the uk the stereotypical latino is a cleaner/house keeper or in a negative light someone involved in drug smuggling/peddeling, this needs to change and Latin America as a whole needs to change and to do so it's going to take something very big to happen and im afraid to say Che was on the right track.

knewcheeze
01-09-2007, 12:59 PM
And if everythin's so free then why are their people risking there lives to come here everyday???

i just wanted to re-paste this quote to once and for all for that this dude got no clue what he is talking about?????

every immigrant to the united snakes eye have talked to tells me "the USA SUCKS i am only here to make money"

but these same immigrant will have a conversation with a pro USA devil and say "the USA is greatest country" just so the devil won't call homeland security and deport they ass"

these people must be telling links what he wanna hear so links and his anti castro cuban illuminati peoples wont crash a commercial aircraft into their house.....

MsRzaRecTaH
01-09-2007, 03:09 PM
what does the BIBLE have to do with this topic anyway yo.. the BIBLE has been written changed etc etc 56000 times...
now compare that shit to a book about CHE...
different.. different..

L~>1<~NKS
01-09-2007, 09:16 PM
what does the BIBLE have to do with this topic anyway yo.. the BIBLE has been written changed etc etc 56000 times...
now compare that shit to a book about CHE...
different.. different..



That's tha point I was tryin to make to Tauro woman. Tha Bible's been re-written many times. Maybe Che's bookz been re-written, re edited. etc. like pleanty of other books through out history. Why? cus men with power can do that, shit men with out power can do that.

Forget I mention tha Bible - it wus jus an example. Im not about to start a holy war in a Che Guevara thread.

Tauro really jonesin' for u BTW.

L~>1<~NKS
01-09-2007, 09:54 PM
And if everythin's so free then why are their people risking there lives to come here everyday???

i just wanted to re-paste this quote to once and for all for that this dude got no clue what he is talking about?????

every immigrant to the united snakes eye have talked to tells me "the USA SUCKS i am only here to make money"

but these same immigrant will have a conversation with a pro USA devil and say "the USA is greatest country" just so the devil won't call homeland security and deport they ass"

these people must be telling links what he wanna hear so links and his anti castro cuban illuminati peoples wont crash a commercial aircraft into their house.....








I can't deal wit knuckleheadz on tha net or in real life, you talkin nuttin but blind hate. Your not even funny wit it.
U callin USA tha "DEVIL". Ur hypocracy knowz no bounds dunny.


It's people who come to this cuntry regardless of where and how - that help built this cuntry. Im for wha this cuntry ORIGINALY stood for - freedom and democracy.

Fuck tha government, and I don't JUST mean Bush - he's jus a puppet. He's jus tha spokeperson for tha masta freemasons. Why hasn't this cuntry claimed Cuba yet? hmmmm...trust me it has nothin to do with Bush, but he knowz why - and if ur smart and know ur history u'd know why too.

Just like Che - only Che had a much better voice for tha people. But hiz voice spoke a little poetic hate, but the hate got to 'em the now where's tha justice? Yet another controversy right?

And in case yall ain't figure it out yet - evil begetz evil, no matter how "good" it sounds.
MLK, Gandi, they won there battles passively. Maybe not the whole prize, but they still built a legacy that proves you can win with passive resistance. I'd rather wear their shirtz instead of Che'z any day.

Ask urself...What have people like Che and Castro done for this world? -

Nothin new, everybody still being killed, still hatin, still comin to this cuntry for a better life. There's still communism. There'z still tyranny. i mean can u beleive Cuba's the only cuntry in the western hemisphere that iz ruled by communism... Why??? And don't even mention Hugo Chavez.

And for those immagrants that made it to this cuntry and are "uneduacated" enough to say that this cuntry sucks, are proly freeloadin knuckleheadz who think every thing should be given to them on a silver platter - fuck that, you need to earn shit in life for yourself and not cuz otherz tell u to, and how to.

So who's guilty here? Simple radicals, and extremeists like "knowcheez" who think that by killin, rapin and mamin - everythin'z gonna be cool, but then he contradicts himself so got damn much. Cmon sun, u serious? As long as there'z hate in our heartz the warz will continue - reasons on why to start the war will alwayz be the same and that's why nothin will change while hates used as the gist.

FYI - KNOWCHEEZ iz a 2ndary account.

You need some pussy dawg.... a hug, or sumthin.

knewcheeze
01-10-2007, 12:17 PM
2ndary account?
huh?

MsRzaRecTaH
01-10-2007, 03:55 PM
Tauro really jonesin' for u BTW.

What?? No he aint!!
:{

TAURO
01-10-2007, 07:58 PM
What?? No he aint!!
:{

He's reffering to the fact that I defended you after ed said that shit about you in that fucked up thread where everyone got heated, according to Links because of my act I must love you:mmmyah:

L~>1<~NKS
01-10-2007, 08:48 PM
He's reffering to the fact that I defended you after ed said that shit about you in that fucked up thread where everyone got heated, according to Links because of my act I must love you:mmmyah:



Vic , Vic, Vic Taurious - he iz, he'z... Vic Taurious.

TAURO
01-10-2007, 08:51 PM
^^ha ha........I knew someone was gonna do that at some point, I just didn't expect it to be so soon.

L~>1<~NKS
01-10-2007, 08:52 PM
What?? No he aint!!
:{

In light of all tha drama thiz subject haz caused, I needed sum comedic enhancement in my thread, like sum Gen Chat/KTL hybrid type of shit.

So it'z funny to me got damn it - don't take it so personal woman.


...Ok back to tha subjeck @ hand.

From now on Im callin Che: "Commendante Guevara".

Cuz he was Che only to hiz friendz and/or followerz, wtc.

MsRzaRecTaH
01-11-2007, 02:57 PM
He's reffering to the fact that I defended you after ed said that shit about you in that fucked up thread where everyone got heated, according to Links because of my act I must love you:mmmyah:

Awww I love you too.. and yes I hate ED ;D

knewcheeze
01-12-2007, 02:09 PM
"I don't believe in believin books anymore"

and there it is!!!!!!!!....as one of my favorite catch phrases goes....

READ A GOD DAMN BOOK!!!!!! dummy

its just crazy how people love their oppressors so much...

they try to murder you your whole life and then they tell you the great righteous revolutionary Che was a bad guy and you believe it like the mental slave you are

TAURO
01-12-2007, 05:54 PM
Awww I love you too.. and yes I hate ED ;D

:$ :f

TSA
06-24-2007, 01:21 AM
i think he was a commi faggot.

knewcheeze
06-28-2007, 10:57 AM
i think he was a commi faggot.

uh.....if you ever picked up a book you would know that CHe eventually turned against the Russians because he realized they were a bunch of devils...like yourself....the Russians are communists....Cuba is socialist dummy!!!!!!

now moving on.....your name is SHaolin Assassin???

How many IMPERIALISTS have you killed??????

ZERO!!!!!!

Eye think your jealous cuz bro Ernesto killed a whole bunch of imperialists(white nazi mercenaries in the congo) and your little homosexual ass hasn't killed any devils yet

now go crawl in your crib and suck on a bottle little baby!!!!!