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Tetsuo
12-27-2006, 01:37 PM
Knowledge is a word thrown around haphazardly by most Hip-Hop "purists." I can't count the number of times some obscure backpack group is deemed more talented than any mainstream loser because he "drops knowledge." But, what strikes me as funny is that it just ends there.

I love Wu-Tang's music till the day I die and appreciate how the culture of the Nation of Gods and Earths has influenced their music, but I can't really say I've learned any valuable life lessons from their music - which oddly enough is how most Hip-Hop heads define "knowledge." But, when you listen to Wu-Tang you learn about a certain culture, customs, and what are purported to be "beliefs."

Ultimately, it boils down to pure style, rather than substance, and don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, especially in music, but I find it funny that actually think their gaining any actual, well thought-out insight into society, politics, or philosophy.

I don't mean to single out Wu-Tang in this rant, but I'm just using them as an example because to me Wu-Tang are the definition of Hip-Hop and its potential. It's the lesser backpack groups that are somehow the "custodians" of the culture and seers that really irritate me. The following are NOT knowledge:

1) Rhyming terms that you remember from Chemistry class, words that you've randomly picked out from a dictionary, and as Prodigy says on the Infamous Interlude, "that crazy space shit that don't make no sense", does not equal knowledge.

2) Political/sociological rants do not equal knowledge. Just because you're rapping about conspiracies, illuminati, and political cover-ups does not make you a genius. Coming across some article on Thirst For Justice and regurgitating it into rhyme form does not make you an activist. For instance, "Nature of the Threat" is not some great song because of its content matter. If I read Black Athena, I could probably make it rhyme too if I put my mind to it.

3) Spitting knowledge about knowledge doesn't equal knowledge - meaning you can play with words like wisdom and knowledge and lessons all you want, but it doesn't mean your rhymes actually contain any of the above. This is especially true of Rappers who try to pass off their music as knowledge when, in reality, they’re just rapping about the same old cliche's.

I'm not trying to say that Hip-Hop is devoid of intelligence, but rather devoid of substance and most attempts at generating substance are impotent at best. There are exceptions; A Tribe Called Quest, for instance, I think is one of the most overlooked when it comes to a unique commentary on African-American culture. Songs like What?, Description of a Fool, Sucka Nigga are perfect examples of where I'm wrong. Wu-songs like C.R.E.A.M., Can't It Be, and Swordsman are other examples, but these are more so the exceptions that prove the rule, meaning that content-wise, they contradict the invulnerability akin to both MCs who kick "knowledge" and those who spit commercial lyrics. Both type of MCs flaunt either their "knowledge of self" persona or their thugged out persona in the same self-indulgent, clumsy manner.

My real criticism of Hip-Hop is its ignorance - not just the ignorance of mainstream rap, but also the ignorance of those who fall prey to the same ugly patterns and remain oblivious to it. But, perhaps it isn't merely obliviousness, but a conscious resolve on the part of more intelligent MCs. I also think that it's this conscious resolve that allows Hip-Hop to thrive in such a manner, whether for better or for worse. This dilemma, this oxymoron, is what enables Hip-Hop to be as versatile and reflective as it truly is. The irony of the matter is that it reflects an entirely different aspect of the form and its value than what was originally intended.

_BaLaNcE_
12-27-2006, 03:44 PM
Cosing..all Of Em Are In A Way False Idols..but Dont Be Mistaken There Are Gods Between..wutang Is A Iron Tribe They Just Put You On A Way When You Are Lost And Searching The True Artists Theirselves Aint Gonna Sit Down With You And Teach You The Way To Live But They Give You Stories Of Experience..or Is Used As A Voice Of Rebellion So The Youth Doesnt Drown In The Ways Of A Devilish Society..just Truly Listen And Decide To Walk 4 Yourself --

I Blow Like The Wind If You Wanna Hear Me - Meditate With Me - Falun Gong - Deminish Babylon Inner Cities!!!
Oneself Is Ones Teacher -
Peace

Black Man
12-27-2006, 05:21 PM
Knowledge is a word thrown around haphazardly by most Hip-Hop "purists." I can't count the number of times some obscure backpack group is deemed more talented than any mainstream loser because he "drops knowledge." But, what strikes me as funny is that it just ends there.

I love Wu-Tang's music till the day I die and appreciate how the culture of the Nation of Gods and Earths has influenced their music, but I can't really say I've learned any valuable life lessons from their music - which oddly enough is how most Hip-Hop heads define "knowledge." But, when you listen to Wu-Tang you learn about a certain culture, customs, and what are purported to be "beliefs."

Ultimately, it boils down to pure style, rather than substance, and don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, especially in music, but I find it funny that actually think their gaining any actual, well thought-out insight into society, politics, or philosophy.

I don't mean to single out Wu-Tang in this rant, but I'm just using them as an example because to me Wu-Tang are the definition of Hip-Hop and its potential. It's the lesser backpack groups that are somehow the "custodians" of the culture and seers that really irritate me. The following are NOT knowledge:

1) Rhyming terms that you remember from Chemistry class, words that you've randomly picked out from a dictionary, and as Prodigy says on the Infamous Interlude, "that crazy space shit that don't make no sense", does not equal knowledge.

2) Political/sociological rants do not equal knowledge. Just because you're rapping about conspiracies, illuminati, and political cover-ups does not make you a genius. Coming across some article on Thirst For Justice and regurgitating it into rhyme form does not make you an activist. For instance, "Nature of the Threat" is not some great song because of its content matter. If I read Black Athena, I could probably make it rhyme too if I put my mind to it.

3) Spitting knowledge about knowledge doesn't equal knowledge - meaning you can play with words like wisdom and knowledge and lessons all you want, but it doesn't mean your rhymes actually contain any of the above. This is especially true of Rappers who try to pass off their music as knowledge when, in reality, they’re just rapping about the same old cliche's.

I'm not trying to say that Hip-Hop is devoid of intelligence, but rather devoid of substance and most attempts at generating substance are impotent at best. There are exceptions; A Tribe Called Quest, for instance, I think is one of the most overlooked when it comes to a unique commentary on African-American culture. Songs like What?, Description of a Fool, Sucka Nigga are perfect examples of where I'm wrong. Wu-songs like C.R.E.A.M., Can't It Be, and Swordsman are other examples, but these are more so the exceptions that prove the rule, meaning that content-wise, they contradict the invulnerability akin to both MCs who kick "knowledge" and those who spit commercial lyrics. Both type of MCs flaunt either their "knowledge of self" persona or their thugged out persona in the same self-indulgent, clumsy manner.

My real criticism of Hip-Hop is its ignorance - not just the ignorance of mainstream rap, but also the ignorance of those who fall prey to the same ugly patterns and remain oblivious to it. But, perhaps it isn't merely obliviousness, but a conscious resolve on the part of more intelligent MCs. I also think that it's this conscious resolve that allows Hip-Hop to thrive in such a manner, whether for better or for worse. This dilemma, this oxymoron, is what enables Hip-Hop to be as versatile and reflective as it truly is. The irony of the matter is that it reflects an entirely different aspect of the form and its value than what was originally intended.

Can you give an example of lyrics where somebody thinks they're dropping knowledge and they're not?

Kephrem
12-27-2006, 06:03 PM
.......

Black Man
12-27-2006, 06:56 PM
"...I thought the ghetto was the worst that could happen to me
I'm glad I listened when my father was rapping to me
Cause back in the days they lived in caves
Exiled from the original man and strayed away
Now that's what I call hard times
I'd rather be here to exercise the mind
Then I take a thought around the world twice
From knowledge to born back to knowledge precise
Across the desert that's hot as the arabian
But they couldn't cave me in cause I'm the asian..."

So this is an example of so-called knowledge being dropped in a rhyme but really isn't knowledge?

I personally see many aspects of knowledge in this portion of Rakim Allah's rhyme.

The two bolded areas are historical in nature. It also deals with the rituals of masons preserving their history.

I also see a knowledge of a man defining himself and those like him.

I also see everyday life lessons in this portion of a song. Straying away from civilization....etc. etc.

Dope song. One of my favorites.

Ultimate Fist
12-27-2006, 06:57 PM
Knowledge is a word thrown around haphazardly by most Hip-Hop "purists." I can't count the number of times some obscure backpack group is deemed more talented than any mainstream loser because he "drops knowledge." But, what strikes me as funny is that it just ends there.

I love Wu-Tang's music till the day I die and appreciate how the culture of the Nation of Gods and Earths has influenced their music, but I can't really say I've learned any valuable life lessons from their music - which oddly enough is how most Hip-Hop heads define "knowledge." But, when you listen to Wu-Tang you learn about a certain culture, customs, and what are purported to be "beliefs."

Ultimately, it boils down to pure style, rather than substance, and don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that, especially in music, but I find it funny that actually think their gaining any actual, well thought-out insight into society, politics, or philosophy.

I don't mean to single out Wu-Tang in this rant, but I'm just using them as an example because to me Wu-Tang are the definition of Hip-Hop and its potential. It's the lesser backpack groups that are somehow the "custodians" of the culture and seers that really irritate me. The following are NOT knowledge:

1) Rhyming terms that you remember from Chemistry class, words that you've randomly picked out from a dictionary, and as Prodigy says on the Infamous Interlude, "that crazy space shit that don't make no sense", does not equal knowledge.

2) Political/sociological rants do not equal knowledge. Just because you're rapping about conspiracies, illuminati, and political cover-ups does not make you a genius. Coming across some article on Thirst For Justice and regurgitating it into rhyme form does not make you an activist. For instance, "Nature of the Threat" is not some great song because of its content matter. If I read Black Athena, I could probably make it rhyme too if I put my mind to it.

3) Spitting knowledge about knowledge doesn't equal knowledge - meaning you can play with words like wisdom and knowledge and lessons all you want, but it doesn't mean your rhymes actually contain any of the above. This is especially true of Rappers who try to pass off their music as knowledge when, in reality, they’re just rapping about the same old cliche's.

I'm not trying to say that Hip-Hop is devoid of intelligence, but rather devoid of substance and most attempts at generating substance are impotent at best. There are exceptions; A Tribe Called Quest, for instance, I think is one of the most overlooked when it comes to a unique commentary on African-American culture. Songs like What?, Description of a Fool, Sucka Nigga are perfect examples of where I'm wrong. Wu-songs like C.R.E.A.M., Can't It Be, and Swordsman are other examples, but these are more so the exceptions that prove the rule, meaning that content-wise, they contradict the invulnerability akin to both MCs who kick "knowledge" and those who spit commercial lyrics. Both type of MCs flaunt either their "knowledge of self" persona or their thugged out persona in the same self-indulgent, clumsy manner.

My real criticism of Hip-Hop is its ignorance - not just the ignorance of mainstream rap, but also the ignorance of those who fall prey to the same ugly patterns and remain oblivious to it. But, perhaps it isn't merely obliviousness, but a conscious resolve on the part of more intelligent MCs. I also think that it's this conscious resolve that allows Hip-Hop to thrive in such a manner, whether for better or for worse. This dilemma, this oxymoron, is what enables Hip-Hop to be as versatile and reflective as it truly is. The irony of the matter is that it reflects an entirely different aspect of the form and its value than what was originally intended.

Word- LOL KTL is getting its ass kicked this week.

Kephrem
12-27-2006, 07:22 PM
,,,,,,,

Black Man
12-27-2006, 07:36 PM
No, it's not that. Try the exact opposite. Knowledge that was dropped in a rhyme that is actually knowledge. An example used to oppose the subject topic.

That was an excellent choice if i do say so myself.

favorite song...the ghetto by rakim you heard the shit that brother was spitten...saigon

LHX
12-27-2006, 07:52 PM
the first post in this thread was well put together

good insights

keep it coming

Kephrem
12-27-2006, 09:03 PM
......

Kephrem
12-27-2006, 09:09 PM
......

Ultimate Fist
12-27-2006, 09:11 PM
I think "from the ground" = Satan... Jesus dont come from the ground

Kephrem
12-27-2006, 09:23 PM
......

Ultimate Fist
12-27-2006, 09:24 PM
Dig it.

tonygusto
12-27-2006, 10:12 PM
man, i remember someone had a post a few weeks back about like minds attracting (the law of attraction) possibly the post about the movie the secret. this site has its ups and downs, but i like the content of this post, the rebuttals to the o.g. topic. im about to listen to liquid swords again.

put those two v's together W

Gspot
12-29-2006, 10:50 AM
But There is No Knowledge in 21st Century's Hip-Hop all of these new rappas just know to rap about Hoes, Bitches, Money, Drugs, 9's, Guns... Bad...

Imperial1
12-29-2006, 12:33 PM
I thought this forum was called "know the ledge" not "Ignore Ant." |(

Imperial1