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LHX
01-29-2007, 08:25 PM
interesting

its cheap, so it may not be popular amongst business men and decision makers

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newscientist. com%2Farticle%2Fdn10971-cheap-safe-drug-kills-most-cancers.html

UNCLE RUCKUS
01-29-2007, 09:06 PM
Thanks LHX thats the best news I´ve heard!

Crucially, though, mitochondria do another job in cells: they activate apoptosis, the process by which abnormal cells self-destruct. When cells switch mitochondria off, they become “immortal”, outliving other cells in the tumour and so becoming dominant. Once reawakened by DCA, mitochondria reactivate apoptosis and order the abnormal cells to die.

Urban_Journalz
01-29-2007, 10:53 PM
If you want the safest, most effective way to cure cancer, study Chi Kung.

LHX
01-29-2007, 11:12 PM
If you want the safest, most effective way to cure cancer, study Chi Kung.
no argument here

the best remedy for cancer is bringing about a situation where it does not develop in the first place

maestro wooz
01-29-2007, 11:18 PM
magic johnson?


i'll believe this when i see it

SickSide
01-30-2007, 03:09 PM
didnt magic johnson have the H.I.V?

Urban_Journalz
01-30-2007, 03:48 PM
He did, but that's another disease that Chi Kung can cure. The Taoists on Wu Tang Mountain tell you on their site. Any disease can be cured with the right foods, herbs and exercise. Namely, that exercise being the circulation of your body's natural energy.

Most diseases are the result of a blockage of chi in one or more of the meridians. Acupuncturists specialize in that area.

Western medicine is ok in some areas, but for the most part it's garbage because they'll tell you there's no cure for something and pump drugs into you to keep money in thier pockets. Meanwhile, you're dying from a disease that can easily be cured, not treated, which is what the meds do, but cured. If only given the right info.

I hate this government.

LHX
01-30-2007, 05:16 PM
turmeric was the substance that originally influenced the development of Tylenol

turmeric is a very common spice used in cooking

when western scientists came across turmeric (which has been used since forever as a cooking ingredient in some societies), they originally tried to PATENT it

they tried to patent turmeric


when that failed, they developed a synthetic substance very similar to turmeric, and market it over the counter as what you currently use for pain relief



meanwhile, if you added a little turmeric to your cooking, you would get many of the same benefits


(you are not supposed to know any of this - keep buying tylenol)

theafghan
01-31-2007, 12:35 AM
He did, but that's another disease that Chi Kung can cure. The Taoists on Wu Tang Mountain tell you on their site. Any disease can be cured with the right foods, herbs and exercise. Namely, that exercise being the circulation of your body's natural energy.

Most diseases are the result of a blockage of chi in one or more of the meridians. Acupuncturists specialize in that area.

Western medicine is ok in some areas, but for the most part it's garbage because they'll tell you there's no cure for something and pump drugs into you to keep money in thier pockets. Meanwhile, you're dying from a disease that can easily be cured, not treated, which is what the meds do, but cured. If only given the right info.

I hate this government.


give me some proof of the last paragraph. anyone can front to have knowledge but please back it up and tell me something concrete.

check two
01-31-2007, 02:42 AM
turmeric was the substance that originally influenced the development of Tylenol

turmeric is a very common spice used in cooking

when western scientists came across turmeric (which has been used since forever as a cooking ingredient in some societies), they originally tried to PATENT it

they tried to patent turmeric


when that failed, they developed a synthetic substance very similar to turmeric, and market it over the counter as what you currently use for pain relief



meanwhile, if you added a little turmeric to your cooking, you would get many of the same benefits


(you are not supposed to know any of this - keep buying tylenol)

Kinda similar to how aspirin was derived from white willow bark.

AcidPhosphate69
01-31-2007, 03:53 AM
No shit...a lot of that was honestly very interesting. No sarcasm...I'd like to learn more.

theafghan
01-31-2007, 04:08 AM
one way we are attacking cancer is this class of drugs called Angiogenesis Inhibitors. "angiogenesis" refers to the growth of new blood vessels. so when a tumor is growing in the body (i.e., cancer), blood vessels are feeding these cells just like they feed any other living cell in the body. what these drugs do is target the growth of new blood vessels around tumors. the idea is to cut off the blood supply to these tumors with the hopes of either causing the tumor to shrink, or at least stop its growth. this is the most promising class of drugs.
but it takes a long long time for a drug to be approved by the FDA. we are talking years, because there are many steps to insure they are safe enough to put out.
I have seen tumors disappear in individual patients with these drugs. When we are talking about experimental drugs for cancer, it all really depends on the individual. we have given the same drug to two different patients, with opposite results. one patient may have the tumor completely dissappear and all signs of cancer reverse. the other patient, the drug may do nothing and the patient eventually passes away. It's tricky to find something that helps everyone in the same way.

LHX
01-31-2007, 07:49 AM
one way we are attacking cancer is this class of drugs called Angiogenesis Inhibitors. "angiogenesis" refers to the growth of new blood vessels. so when a tumor is growing in the body (i.e., cancer), blood vessels are feeding these cells just like they feed any other living cell in the body. what these drugs do is target the growth of new blood vessels around tumors. the idea is to cut off the blood supply to these tumors with the hopes of either causing the tumor to shrink, or at least stop its growth. this is the most promising class of drugs.
but it takes a long long time for a drug to be approved by the FDA. we are talking years, because there are many steps to insure they are safe enough to put out.
I have seen tumors disappear in individual patients with these drugs. When we are talking about experimental drugs for cancer, it all really depends on the individual. we have given the same drug to two different patients, with opposite results. one patient may have the tumor completely dissappear and all signs of cancer reverse. the other patient, the drug may do nothing and the patient eventually passes away. It's tricky to find something that helps everyone in the same way.
this is copied and pasted from somewhere?

theafghan
01-31-2007, 10:28 AM
this is copied and pasted from somewhere?

sorry, no i should have explained. i typed it myself because i work in clinical trials. we test potential drugs which can fight cancer on humans. so a company will design a new drug, then test it first in the lab on cultures of human cells, then if it passes those tests, it will go on to be tested on animals with cancers, if it proves to do well there, it has to go through 5 phases of human testing. we usually do the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd phases of human testing for different drugs. now, the testing is always voluntary, the patients are usually patients who have already tried conventianal therapy but it hasnt done anything for them, so they come to us as a last effort. sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn.t but the patient knows all the risks and possibilities before they sign the waiver, and they have the right to stop treatment at any time with no questions asked. like i said in the last post, i've witnessed 100% cures in individuals, and i've had patients pass away. this is a quick summary of clinical trials in oncology. hope it helps shed some light on the subject. someone mentioned above that cancer deaths have decreased in the u.s. the past few years. this is true and its due to more awareness. more people are finding their cancers earlier and this is key to beating it. let me know if you have more questions. and someone else mentioned the best way to beat cancer is to avoid situations which lead to it. this is so true!

Urban_Journalz
01-31-2007, 08:49 PM
give me some proof of the last paragraph. anyone can front to have knowledge but please back it up and tell me something concrete.

I think all of you will find the following testimonials very enlightening. Especially those of you who demand the speakers names begin with "Dr." or end in "Phd".

To defend the practice of common sense thinking, no video or demonstration can make you believe anything. Personally, I, like a lot of other people, know that certain herbs, vitamins and vegetables can make you less likely to die from heat-attack or stroke. These days, they're even kind enough to tell us on some of the cotainers of food we buy.

So where does a seemingly strange practice (to confined western thinking) come into play?? We have the ingredients to keep ourselves healthy, true enough, but does merely ingesting it do the trick??

Chi is your body's natural energy. Enerything in the universe has it. As humans, most of our chi is obtained from the foods we eat. So just having the chi from herbs, vitamins and vegetables may indeed build strong bones and immune systems through regular exercise, but all you're doing is burning up the chi. You're not gathering, storing and cultivating it, which not only does what regular exercise does, but it also cleanses your blood, bone marrow and vital organs of lingering toxins. You've actually seen proof of this with people laying thier hands inches above people and the patient having no further ailments. At all. Ever. That's a Medical Chi Kung master at work. Or more commonly called, a healer. All they do is clear the patients' body of the negative chi by using thier positive chi. Every body part has a meridian connected to it. The meridians are pathways that your chi flows through in order to reach other parts of your body. When there is a blockage of one or more of these meridians, disease occurs and in some cases, death. Stress, alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and unhealhy foods, are just a few of the more common things that block our chi flow on a regular basis.

Acupuncture is the safer form of medical chi kung for western minds because we can see what's happening through the use of the needles. Once asked your symptoms, te acupuncturist will place the needles along the meridian or meridians that coincide with your ailment so your body's energy can flow freely again. Wether needles, palms or just thought alone, this pratice is very real and the most effective to keep human beings in the best health and it's been proven time and again.


To me it seems like 1+1 if looked at from a "big picture" point of view. Ever wonder why you see 70 and 80 yr. old Chinamen lookin' like they're 30 and 40?? It's not gastric bypass or botox. They, unlike most of us, remember that humans were fine, maybe better, before the technological age, or, more rightfully titled, "The Rise Of The Machines". So do me a favor, don't just read, try to understand.


http://www.healingtaousa.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rm=mode2&articleid=40

Civilison
01-31-2007, 11:12 PM
no argument here

the best remedy for cancer is bringing about a situation where it does not develop in the first place

this is good.

which shows that all types of things are contained within the possibilities of all things even like cancer cells.

what i'm thinking is that certain things exists and 'are there' but are dormant physically because the proper environment of space and time was not created for them.

kinda like men can only impregnate women at a certain phase of a woman's phase.

all things have a assigned manifestation in accordace with space-time and the environment it occurs.

all those mental sciences like chi kung and many others seem to charge bodily cells and atoms with 'medicine' that repels the cancer cell.

check two
02-01-2007, 01:09 AM
Shropsher_Slasher,
Would you consider reiki to be similar in a way, to what a Medical Chi Kung master does?

theafghan
02-01-2007, 01:40 AM
Shropsher Slasher, that's some good information. I believe in chi energy, herbs, vitamins, and a holistic approach to health--meaning preventing disease with healthy practices rather than treating problems after they occur. Most of all i believe in the power of the mental.

but my comment about what you said was more about you're comments about western medecine. eastern medecine and western medecine are not opposites. they are two methods at acheiving the same goal, health.
BUT, i'll be the first to admit that yes, some western medecines focus on treating symptoms as opposed to actually curing/stoping disease. AND, i admit that some industries are built off this.
and I'll also admit that our U.S. government (equate that to western medecine in this case) has even performed disgraceful medical experiments on its citizens without them knowing it. For example, the Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment. Between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service conducted an experiment on 399 black men with late stages of syphilis. Basically they weren't told they had syphilis and were told they were being treated for "bad blood." in reality the doctors had no intention of helping them, and the goal of the experiment was to watch the degenerative effects of syphilis. and it's a horrible way to die. not only did it affect them, 40 infected their wives, and 19 of their children were born with congenial syphilis.
but my point in questioning you was that too many people are too quick to go to an extreme position without knowing the whole story. i admit western medecine has been/can be ineffective and harmful, in the ways i outlined above. but this doesn't mean all of western medecine can be discredited. There ARE many western drugs which focus on CURING and getting rid of diseases, such as cancer. i've seen western drugs completely cure cancer in many patients. today we found out at the clinic i work at that one of the western drugs we give to our patients lead to the patient's tumors to decrease by at least 30% in 3 months. That's a HUGE decrease.

so my point: eastern medecine and western medecine are not opposites. there's good in both so we cant be quick to judge either one without some real knowledge. i know you said western medecine is good in some areas, but you also called it garbage. it's not garbage, but i would agree if you said people in the west rely too much on western drugs to do a job for them which they should have done for themselves, that is maintain their health.

check two
02-01-2007, 01:58 AM
This is a real positive thread.

theafghan,
What types of animals were involved in your testing stages? Did the animals already have cancer, before the testing was started?

froth
02-01-2007, 02:42 AM
I think all of you will find the following testimonials very enlightening. Especially those of you who demand the speakers names begin with "Dr." or end in "Phd".

To defend the practice of common sense thinking, no video or demonstration can make you believe anything. Personally, I, like a lot of other people, know that certain herbs, vitamins and vegetables can make you less likely to die from heat-attack or stroke. These days, they're even kind enough to tell us on some of the cotainers of food we buy.

So where does a seemingly strange practice (to confined western thinking) come into play?? We have the ingredients to keep ourselves healthy, true enough, but does merely ingesting it do the trick??

Chi is your body's natural energy. Enerything in the universe has it. As humans, most of our chi is obtained from the foods we eat. So just having the chi from herbs, vitamins and vegetables may indeed build strong bones and immune systems through regular exercise, but all you're doing is burning up the chi. You're not gathering, storing and cultivating it, which not only does what regular exercise does, but it also cleanses your blood, bone marrow and vital organs of lingering toxins. You've actually seen proof of this with people laying thier hands inches above people and the patient having no further ailments. At all. Ever. That's a Medical Chi Kung master at work. Or more commonly called, a healer. All they do is clear the patients' body of the negative chi by using thier positive chi. Every body part has a meridian connected to it. The meridians are pathways that your chi flows through in order to reach other parts of your body. When there is a blockage of one or more of these meridians, disease occurs and in some cases, death. Stress, alcohol, drugs, cigarettes and unhealhy foods, are just a few of the more common things that block our chi flow on a regular basis.

Acupuncture is the safer form of medical chi kung for western minds because we can see what's happening through the use of the needles. Once asked your symptoms, te acupuncturist will place the needles along the meridian or meridians that coincide with your ailment so your body's energy can flow freely again. Wether needles, palms or just thought alone, this pratice is very real and the most effective to keep human beings in the best health and it's been proven time and again.


To me it seems like 1+1 if looked at from a "big picture" point of view. Ever wonder why you see 70 and 80 yr. old Chinamen lookin' like they're 30 and 40?? It's not gastric bypass or botox. They, unlike most of us, remember that humans were fine, maybe better, before the technological age, or, more rightfully titled, "The Rise Of The Machines". So do me a favor, don't just read, try to understand.


http://www.healingtaousa.com/cgi-bin/articles.pl?rm=mode2&articleid=40
hear hear

Urban_Journalz
02-01-2007, 02:42 AM
Shropsher_Slasher,
Would you consider reiki to be similar in a way, to what a Medical Chi Kung master does?

More than similar, identical. I actually considered studying that course, but I found that the majority of Japanese arts, medical and martial, come from China. So I went with Chi Kung as a start. Both are very effective though.

froth
02-01-2007, 02:45 AM
people have to stop thinking small

theafghan
02-01-2007, 02:50 AM
check two,

at our site we only test on humans, but the drugs we test have been tested on mainly rats and mice. sometimes monkeys are used. but again, all this is done at different sites, we dont do any of that. now, off the top of my head i have to say that the rats and mice were most likely given cancer before testing, they didn't already have it.
BUT, to be completely sure i will read up more of the background of animal testing on some of the drugs we have tomorrow at work and i'll bring a more definitive answer tomorrow.
it may seem sad or unethical that animals are tested on or given cancer for testing, but we gotta keep a bigger picture in mind. the animals are used to give us a better idea of what will happen in a living system (i.e., not just cells on a petri dish). that makes it safer for when the drug is eventually introduced into humans. if we don't test on animals, we wouldn't know as much about the molecules we're putting in humans, and that lack of knowledge would be passed onto humans receiving the drug in the form of more problems/complications.

and i agree this thread is very positive. all types of knowledge combine to contribute to real BUILDING and TEACHING

Urban_Journalz
02-01-2007, 02:59 AM
Shropsher Slasher, that's some good information. I believe in chi energy, herbs, vitamins, and a holistic approach to health--meaning preventing disease with healthy practices rather than treating problems after they occur. Most of all i believe in the power of the mental.

but my comment about what you said was more about you're comments about western medecine. eastern medecine and western medecine are not opposites. they are two methods at acheiving the same goal, health.
BUT, i'll be the first to admit that yes, some western medecines focus on treating symptoms as opposed to actually curing/stoping disease. AND, i admit that some industries are built off this.
and I'll also admit that our U.S. government (equate that to western medecine in this case) has even performed disgraceful medical experiments on its citizens without them knowing it. For example, the Tuskeegee Syphilis Experiment. Between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service conducted an experiment on 399 black men with late stages of syphilis. Basically they weren't told they had syphilis and were told they were being treated for "bad blood." in reality the doctors had no intention of helping them, and the goal of the experiment was to watch the degenerative effects of syphilis. and it's a horrible way to die. not only did it affect them, 40 infected their wives, and 19 of their children were born with congenial syphilis.
but my point in questioning you was that too many people are too quick to go to an extreme position without knowing the whole story. i admit western medecine has been/can be ineffective and harmful, in the ways i outlined above. but this doesn't mean all of western medecine can be discredited. There ARE many western drugs which focus on CURING and getting rid of diseases, such as cancer. i've seen western drugs completely cure cancer in many patients. today we found out at the clinic i work at that one of the western drugs we give to our patients lead to the patient's tumors to decrease by at least 30% in 3 months. That's a HUGE decrease.

so my point: eastern medecine and western medecine are not opposites. there's good in both so we cant be quick to judge either one without some real knowledge. i know you said western medecine is good in some areas, but you also called it garbage. it's not garbage, but i would agree if you said people in the west rely too much on western drugs to do a job for them which they should have done for themselves, that is maintain their health.

True indeed.

My apologies, because I did call western medicine garbage. I just get really frustrated seeing every other commercial for a new drug designed to treat things that a walk on the beach or meditation can cure ya feel me??

Yo, that Tuskegee experiment was notorious man.
Just foul the whole way through.

Like you, there are a lot of people in the medical field who not only support, but also suggest to thier patients the use of natural and "alternative" medicines. This is one of the illest steps we've taken in recent years indeed. I had no idea about the meds zappin' off cancer cells though. That's ill news man seriously.

I guess it does come down to frustration from society being so dependent on drugs instead of searching for natural cures.

Word 'em up though, eastern and western medicine isn't completely different, as one does relate to the other, I just wish more people knew about the two so they could benefit more thoroughly.

theafghan
02-01-2007, 03:09 AM
shropsher,

yea i know what you mean about all these commercials. it works me up too. especially when i hear about all these kids on ritalin and prozac.

froth
02-01-2007, 03:15 AM
, I just wish more people knew about the two so they could benefit more thoroughly.
thats the weirdest part about it its like people refuse to believe that everything is unbelievable

'yeah i can accept being on a planet, but this self healing talk seems a little New Agey'

LHX
02-01-2007, 07:24 AM
study of health and medicine comes naturally with the pursuit of knowledge

all living things have the same general tendencies, so if you understand the behavior of one aspect, you can extend that to the other

the biggest problem with eastern medicine is that some of its principles rest on elements that are not tangible (cannot be demonstrated physically to the eye) such as chi and kundalini - also the whole 5 elements approach to things (the notion that different substances manifest different energies)
- the western mind has difficulty with that (unless you are talking about 'souls' and 'spirits')


also - the role of food in medicine as the primary treatment for disease is way over looked


'you are what you eat'
there is no joke in that statement
its as literal as sunshine is bright

you are a composition of food
if you fuck up that process, then you end up fucked up

LHX
02-01-2007, 09:17 AM
i have to disagree with you lhx. there is technology out there that lets you "see" the chi energy and different diagnostic machines to evaluate your meridians i.e. kirlian photography, motoyama ATI machines, Voll machines
it lets you see 'something'


the label you give it is up to you


chi hasnt hit the textbooks yet


some people might even call it love

Civilison
02-01-2007, 04:57 PM
the thing with chi is that it does not only relate to health and medicine.

the reason why chi is misunderstood by a lot of people is because chi must become common knowledge among us in order for us to see how to use and manipulate it.

the current state of the world is not in attunement with this.

chi is in everything and everybody. this seems like a much subjective opinion but as soon as more people attest to chi and the whole science the subjectivity becomes objective because qi is just as subjective as it is objective.

in egyptian science, whole existence brakes down to two fundamental planes of reality. the hidden and the active. qi is at the root of everything that is considered active on this globe.

manipulation of chi energy can lead to extraordinary results. some even considered too powerful for the common man to play with.

but just the fact that this thread is here shows and proves that more and more people are being introduced or rather re-introduced to qi science.

peace

Urban_Journalz
02-01-2007, 05:38 PM
the thing with chi is that it does not only relate to health and medicine.

the reason why chi is misunderstood by a lot of people is because chi must become common knowledge among us in order for us to see how to use and manipulate it.

the current state of the world is not in attunement with this.

chi is in everything and everybody. this seems like a much subjective opinion but as soon as more people attest to chi and the whole science the subjectivity becomes objective because qi is just as subjective as it is objective.

in egyptian science, whole existence brakes down to two fundamental planes of reality. the hidden and the active. qi is at the root of everything that is considered active on this globe.

manipulation of chi energy can lead to extraordinary results. some even considered too powerful for the common man to play with.

but just the fact that this thread is here shows and proves that more and more people are being introduced or rather re-introduced to qi science.

peace

Word 'em up man. Truer words, never spoken. I want to touch on what you said about chi being too powerful for the common man to play with. That's the exact reason we're mostly made to believe that it can only happen in "Star Wars" and "The Matrix". If people knew about chi the way we know about Brad and Angelina, the world would be completely different. Still, some people, most people don't need to know about it because if used for the wrong reasons, like a firearm, it could be deadly.

LHX.....

though there are machined that proves chi's existence, I suggest you consider this. Chi isn't just telekinesis and healing. It's finishing a friend's sentence before they do. It's that positive change of mood if you go from Harlem to Central Park or Times Square. It's manifestations are limitless and a lot more common than most would think.

Do me a favor, conduct an experiment.

Don't laugh.

Get some good stuff. Chronic, White Widow, Skywalker, Ice, whatever, make sure it's powerful.

Wether you smoke it or make brownies is of course up to you, just get the THC in your system. This, like a few other plants in nature, are handy for a quick tap-in to the chi of everything around you.

Now, either go to a beach, or a park. It would help if you have music as well. I suggest songs like Ghostface's "Fish" or Nas's "Memory Lane", somethin' with a mellow but tight flow to it. Inhale or eat, then notice what happens. You'll start to feel unusually good. I mean hippie, I wanna kiss the world good. When you're high, you're more receptive to these things because the physical world is dull and lifeless really. You begin to see where the real life is and feel it as well. While it doesn't make a sound, the emotional feeling is like an avalanche.

You have to feel chi in order to truly know it exists. Believing is an excellent first step, but there's no proof like feeling it.

WARPATH
02-01-2007, 05:41 PM
You guys are just figurin' this shit out? I thought everyone knew about a cure for cancer.

WARPATH
02-01-2007, 05:44 PM
Word 'em up man. Truer words, never spoken. I want to touch on what you said about chi being too powerful for the common man to play with. That's the exact reason we're mostly made to believe that it can only happen in "Star Wars" and "The Matrix". If people knew about chi the way we know about Brad and Angelina, the world would be completely different. Still, some people, most people don't need to know about it because if used for the wrong reasons, like a firearm, it could be deadly.

LHX.....

though there are machined that proves chi's existence, I suggest you consider this. Chi isn't just telekinesis and healing. It's finishing a friend's sentence before they do. It's that positive change of mood if you go from Harlem to Central Park or Times Square. It's manifestations are limitless and a lot more common than most would think.

Do me a favor, conduct an experiment.

Don't laugh.

Get some good stuff. Chronic, White Widow, Skywalker, Ice, whatever, make sure it's powerful.

Wether you smoke it or make brownies is of course up to you, just get the THC in your system. This, like a few other plants in nature, are handy for a quick tap-in to the chi of everything around you.

Now, either go to a beach, or a park. It would help if you have music as well. I suggest songs like Ghostface's "Fish" or Nas's "Memory Lane", somethin' with a mellow but tight flow to it. Inhale or eat, then notice what happens. You'll start to feel unusually good. I mean hippie, I wanna kiss the world good. When you're high, you're more receptive to these things because the physical world is dull and lifeless really. You begin to see where the real life is and feel it as well. While it doesn't make a sound, the emotional feeling is like an avalanche.

You have to feel chi in order to truly know it exists. Believing is an excellent first step, but there's no proof like feeling it.

That ain't Chi energy. That's called gettin muchies at the beach after smokin' a spliff. Don't get it twisted.:b

froth
02-01-2007, 05:47 PM
all you have to do is learn to be still and crazy shit happens

LHX
02-01-2007, 05:58 PM
LHX.....

though there are machined that proves chi's existence, I suggest you consider this. Chi isn't just telekinesis and healing. It's finishing a friend's sentence before they do. It's that positive change of mood if you go from Harlem to Central Park or Times Square. It's manifestations are limitless and a lot more common than most would think.

Do me a favor, conduct an experiment.

Don't laugh.

Get some good stuff. Chronic, White Widow, Skywalker, Ice, whatever, make sure it's powerful.

Wether you smoke it or make brownies is of course up to you, just get the THC in your system. This, like a few other plants in nature, are handy for a quick tap-in to the chi of everything around you.

Now, either go to a beach, or a park. It would help if you have music as well. I suggest songs like Ghostface's "Fish" or Nas's "Memory Lane", somethin' with a mellow but tight flow to it. Inhale or eat, then notice what happens. You'll start to feel unusually good. I mean hippie, I wanna kiss the world good. When you're high, you're more receptive to these things because the physical world is dull and lifeless really. You begin to see where the real life is and feel it as well. While it doesn't make a sound, the emotional feeling is like an avalanche.

You have to feel chi in order to truly know it exists. Believing is an excellent first step, but there's no proof like feeling it.

man

youre preaching to the choir

the only reason i bring up the perspectives i bring up is because these are the best arguments i have come up against

chi is a word

when somebody says 'show me chi', i cant


tree is a word
when somebody says show me a tree, i take them outside and bring them to a tree




ive done many experiments with chi and kundalini - some good, some disastrous


your description of chi is very romantic and pleasant to read, but ultimately it says nothing

also: chi is not all positive - it is just as much the transition from good to bad as it is from bad to good


i acknowledge chi everywhere - it is the energy that animates things

if you look hard enough, there is chi in this post



the only thing you cant do is convince somebody of it

thats one battle i gave up after years


its a symbolic fallacy and a flaw in language

words are visual tools and require physical manifestations

i can no longer intelligently argue in support of chi (even tho its everywhere)

Urban_Journalz
02-01-2007, 06:43 PM
man

also: chi is not all positive

i acknowledge chi everywhere

i can no longer intelligently argue in support of chi (even tho its everywhere)

Chi, just like bullets, depends on the intention of it's wielder as to wether it's negative or positive. My point in reminding people of it's harmonious flow, is that it's just that, harmonious. It flows just like the seasons.

Well, long as you know it exists, my case is rested. The rest is entirely up to you.

Urban_Journalz
02-01-2007, 06:46 PM
That ain't Chi energy. That's called gettin muchies at the beach after smokin' a spliff. Don't get it twisted.:b

this is pre-munchies yo. some people are more aware of it than others though. any substance that acts on the nervous system makes you see, hear, feel and think on a much deeper level.

Urban_Journalz
02-01-2007, 06:49 PM
all you have to do is learn to be still and crazy shit happens

lol

word.

be still....breath slow....and concentrate and you'll be on some other s**t within minutes.

the silencer
02-01-2007, 07:04 PM
this thread is awesome..

WARPATH
02-02-2007, 12:06 PM
this is pre-munchies yo. some people are more aware of it than others though. any substance that acts on the nervous system makes you see, hear, feel and think on a much deeper level.

Bullshit.

Weed makes you slow, paranoid and confused. It muddles your brain, there's no deep thought level. I'm not saying it makes you stupid, I have taken tests in school while I was high and passed. It just handicaps your brain for a bit.

Aclohol effects the nervous system, now your gonna tell me some drunk is gonna drop something deep while he's spittin and slurring?

Putting poison in your body- Poisons your body. Fucking with your mind is just that- Fucking with your mind. It's fun to experiment, but don't think that all drugs are gonna make you some deep thinker.

However-

There are things that you can put into your body that would be considered drugs, that might show you something. For example Peyote. I've never taken it myself, but one my well resepected elders used it and siad it shows you the living force, or what some of you might call Chi, in things. The blood that flows through the veins in a tree leaf for example. They use it for religious ceremonies here. But if you experiment and use these things with out knowledge of it, you can loose your mind.

the silencer
02-02-2007, 01:40 PM
Bullshit.

Weed makes you slow, paranoid and confused. It muddles your brain, there's no deep thought level. I'm not saying it makes you stupid, I have taken tests in school while I was high and passed. It just handicaps your brain for a bit.

Aclohol effects the nervous system, now your gonna tell me some drunk is gonna drop something deep while he's spittin and slurring?

Putting poison in your body- Poisons your body. Fucking with your mind is just that- Fucking with your mind. It's fun to experiment, but don't think that all drugs are gonna make you some deep thinker.

However-

There are things that you can put into your body that would be considered drugs, that might show you something. For example Peyote. I've never taken it myself, but one my well resepected elders used it and siad it shows you the living force, or what some of you might call Chi, in things. The blood that flows through the veins in a tree leaf for example. They use it for religious ceremonies here. But if you experiment and use these things with out knowledge of it, you can loose your mind.
i wouldn't consider weed to be a "poison" the way alcohol is...

inhaling a burnt leaf and the cigar leaf (or ez-wider) along with it is definitely no good for your body but i think Shropsher was trying to emphasize the effect of the THC...

i blaze all the time...actually im down to about once a week now.....but the results usually vary...sometimes, like you said, im all muddled and paranoid and confused and i dont know what to do with myself (take a shower? watch TV? eat something? read a book?)....but sometimes i'm just on that higher level where i could just be sitting in a room and something like plant or a picture on the wall or some inanimate object can spark tremendously deep thought....

the silencer
02-02-2007, 01:43 PM
btw, plenty of times on this forum ppl have spoken about Chi and what it is and what are the benefits of Chi Kung and stuff like that..and SS u posted that link where the doctors talk about how good it is for u...

but are there any places on the internet where they actually explain some basic techniques of it???

like, i was gonna start taking classes at that USA Shaolin Temple that was brought up in a diff thread not too long ago but my school schedule conflicts with it...

but i'd still like to know how i can properly cultivate Chi...can anybody go thru it a little?

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 02:06 PM
^^^^^
My thoughts exactly.

Weed isn't a poison as alcohol is. Plus I was emphaizing the THC. You don't have to smoke weed. You can cook with it or you can use a vaporizer to get the same effects.

Weed does make you slow, but you need to realize what's happening as a result of that. Studies have shown that THC opens the 6th and 7th chakras very wide. I'll post a link to tell you exactly what they are and what they do.

Again, weed does different things to different people. If you're stupid before you smoke, you'll be stupid once you're high. If you like to learn new things before you smoke, then things will reveal themselves to you once you're high, because you have the pre-disposition to deal with them, while some people would jump off a cliff.

Good and bad trips depend on a few things. You have to be in a positive mood before you smoke, plus you have to want to smoke for a good reason. The wrong people or place can kill a high instantly. Which is why I mentioned doing such around nature, as nature is always in constant harmony.

Nor did I say, "All drugs are going to make you a deep thinker." or anything of the kind.

First of all, marijuana isn't a drug. As drugs are cooked up in laboratories and marijuana comes from the earth. Where do you think the scientists get the hallucinagenic properties from to make things like cocaine, extasy and heroin?? There's botanists that seek out all of the psychotropics (plants with hallucinagenic properties) worldwide, then add a dash of ammonia, paint chips and Krylon paint.

There are plants, like peyote, passionflower, blue lotus, california poppy, etc...that give you the same effects as marijuana. Some are smoked, chewed, even brewed as teas. There's actually entire books that give you the names of every psychotropic known to man. The reason being, that the difference between drugs and psychotropics, is that one is meant to kill you and the other isn't.
The governments have made us believe that anything that can alter your conciousness is dangerous and is to be demonized. The same governments who write the checks to keep the above mentioned laboratories that cook up these drugs for us up and running.

The plants "they" don't want you to know about actually can make you a deep thinker. I've done it and I've seen and heard it happen. Again, it depends on the intelligence level, intention of the taker and the situation and surrounding he or she is in.

I never just pick up something without researching it first. That's just stupid. The only mushroom I ever tried called Amanita Muscaria, I studied for weeks before I put in an order. For the record, the tea form is way stronger than the raw form, and the high is a serious awareness. Point is, not only studying what you're putting into your body, but also taking it sparingly is a good way to go.

LHX
02-02-2007, 02:12 PM
poison isnt even poison

its just a high concentration of a particular substance


ask that woman who died in that radio contest a couple weeks ago how poisonous water is


alcohol occurs as a natural ferment and marijuana is a natural plant

but
only humans are 'smart' enough to increase the fermentation rates and ratios and light things on fire then inhale the smoke



besides - everything is fun when you dont feel how its destroying you

WARPATH
02-02-2007, 02:22 PM
You guys are preaching about drugs to the wrong person. I'm not saying weed is bad at all, or any of that nonsense your drawing from my post.

It seems like all the druggies here want to advocate it, using their experiences with drugs as their credintails, as if it was their degree in weed knowledge.

Well, if that's the case than I got a masters degree in smoking blunts by the time was 16. You guys are telling me nothing I haven't heard before or once believed myself.

Weed is natural from the earth, but does that mean it's meant bring you into a deep thought process? No, not at all. That deep thought process you think your having is only deep because your mind is handicapped. All of sudden you think of something and......

whoa dude that's deep...

Weed is there to help people with headaches and other chronic illnessess. When you abuse that medicine, you make it harder for people that really need it, to get it.

LHX
02-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Weed is natural from the earth, but does that mean it's meant bring you into a deep thought process? No, not at all. That deep thought process you think your having is only deep because your mind is handicapped. All of sudden you think of something and......


at no point would i ever disagree with this

these substances are tools


they can be useful, but it is not wise to incorporate them into your lifestyle


'recreational drug use' is plain retarded

the silencer
02-02-2007, 02:51 PM
Weed is natural from the earth, but does that mean it's meant bring you into a deep thought process? No, not at all. That deep thought process you think your having is only deep because your mind is handicapped. All of sudden you think of something and......

whoa dude that's deep...




i get ur point but this part i totally disagree with..

i think maybe if somebody is just a doofus to begin with, then as a high doofus they might think shit is "deep" or whatever...

but i've had incredibly deep thoughts and inspirations and shit while high that i don't get sober..

and one of the smartest men of the last century, Pulitzer Prize and all kinds of other prize-winner, astronomer Carl Sagan used to blaze and has written about the eye-opening (one might say "3rd Eye" opening) experience....you could read his piece at marijuana-uses.com..

but SS put it correctly....if you are an idiot sober then you are an enhanced idiot high...ppl who seek knowledge and meaning within things when they are sober, do so on a deeper level while high..i believe

the silencer
02-02-2007, 02:54 PM
one more thing, i used to think the "from the Earth" argument was a strong one...but isn't opium naturally from the earth??

im not totally familiar with the effects of opium but i assume they are pretty harsh...

and plus the earth does (of course) produce many natural things that are harmful....poison ivy is a subtle example

maestro wooz
02-02-2007, 03:21 PM
Weed is natural from the earth, but does that mean it's meant bring you into a deep thought process? No, not at all. That deep thought process you think your having is only deep because your mind is handicapped. All of sudden you think of something and......

whoa dude that's deep...



i think thats a real interesting thought, but i don't think it's true

LHX
02-02-2007, 03:24 PM
it impairs your senses so you are forced to view things differently

you can accomplish the same thing without ingesting substances

maestro wooz
02-02-2007, 03:58 PM
is it as fun though?

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 04:13 PM
You guys are preaching about drugs to the wrong person. I'm not saying weed is bad at all, or any of that nonsense your drawing from my post.

It seems like all the druggies here want to advocate it, using their experiences with drugs as their credintails, as if it was their degree in weed knowledge.

Well, if that's the case than I got a masters degree in smoking blunts by the time was 16. You guys are telling me nothing I haven't heard before or once believed myself.

Weed is natural from the earth, but does that mean it's meant bring you into a deep thought process? No, not at all. That deep thought process you think your having is only deep because your mind is handicapped. All of sudden you think of something and......

whoa dude that's deep...

Weed is there to help people with headaches and other chronic illnessess. When you abuse that medicine, you make it harder for people that really need it, to get it.

I use marijuana, don't abuse it, so the abuse of weed doesn't apply to me. Even if I did, the title of "druggie" wouldn't apply to me because everything I've ever tried has been a plant. I have nothing to advocate because no one here can judge anything I do, nor would I let someone think they were important enough for the opportunity. What I'm doing is trying to shed some light on the fact that a psychoactive substance, if used for the right reasons can be personally and socially beneficial. Obviously it's lost on you, and I have no problem with that.

Your saying that I'm preaching about drugs is making it seem like I'm saying that A: Marijuana is a drug. and B: That all psychoactive substances are beneficial. Both being false.

All psyhoactive plants were meant to be consumed at a respectable rate and are meant to make all creatures who consume them think on a deeper level. The mind isn't handicapped, it's in tune with the unseen. That's why driving cars isn't recommended, but meditation and playing video games is. Activities that focus on instinct and deep thought are actually ordered by spiritualists who recognize the benefits of the use, not abuse, of such plants.

Also, it would behoove you to stop smokin' blunts so often because the chemicals in the paper interfere with the weed. Plus with the chemicals in the paper, it's a dirty hit.

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 04:30 PM
but
only humans are 'smart' enough to increase the fermentation rates and ratios and light things on fire then inhale the smoke



besides - everything is fun when you dont feel how its destroying you

I suggest you go here http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Browse.asp?Category=Books:Non-Fiction and look at the book called "Animals & Psychedelics", because this man's theory, through his studies, is that phychotropics are here for the very purpose of living creatures, including us, to use them. Use. Not abuse. Humans aren't the only ones 'smart' enough to know the advantages of these substances. Now, in case you're thinking, "Well, they're animals. We're people and we're smarter." Are we really? A lot of so-called 'common sense' these days is mere conjecture and fear of what may possibly be true.

Another good book to observe on the same page is "Breaking Open The Head". Very interesting, in the fact that the author records his personal experiences with certain psychotropics and some of the native peoples who use them.

To say that, "everything is fun when you don't feel how it's destroying you." is either to say that everything we do is hazardous, or, that any and everyone who chooses to consume such plants as can alter your perception are all abusers. Both being false.

Psychotropics, if taken just because, are deadly. All of them. You can't say that, "Incorporating them into your lifestyle isn't wise." is biased. You're taking it based on your lifestyle and the lifestyles of most people in the world. The people who actually have lifestyles that heavily incorporate spiritual cultivation, be it through kundalini, chi kung, astral projection, esp, clairvoyance or telekinesis, are all people who defend the recreational use of such plants because it's a part of thier lifestyle.

LHX
02-02-2007, 04:57 PM
I suggest you go here http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Browse.asp?Category=Books:Non-Fiction and look at the book called "Animals & Psychedelics", because this man's theory, through his studies, is that phychotropics are here for the very purpose of living creatures, including us, to use them. Use. Not abuse. Humans aren't the only ones 'smart' enough to know the advantages of these substances. Now, in case you're thinking, "Well, they're animals. We're people and we're smarter." Are we really? A lot of so-called 'common sense' these days is mere conjecture and fear of what may possibly be true.

they are here

we are here

we experiment with them

its a fairly straightforward process



sodomy developed for the same reason

a hole is a hole - better test it out


the question is - how often do you go back and re-visit a particular substance?

until you learn what you need to from it (even if that path has to hollow you out thru addiction)





Another good book to observe on the same page is "Breaking Open The Head". Very interesting, in the fact that the author records his personal experiences with certain psychotropics and some of the native peoples who use them.

yeah the modern Castaneda

that book has had its share of good press and bad press



To say that, "everything is fun when you don't feel how it's destroying you." is either to say that everything we do is hazardous, or, that any and everyone who chooses to consume such plants as can alter your perception are all abusers. Both being false.

there is a difference between 'learning' and 'being stimulated'

perhaps everything we do IS hazardous if it isnt done responsibly, and balanced in proportion

all foods alter perception


the use of a stimulating plant in a world where people look to avoid situations is not a recipe for abuse?




Psychotropics, if taken just because, are deadly. All of them. You can't say that, "Incorporating them into your lifestyle isn't wise." is biased. You're taking it based on your lifestyle and the lifestyles of most people in the world. The people who actually have lifestyles that heavily incorporate spiritual cultivation, be it through kundalini, chi kung, astral projection, esp, clairvoyance or telekinesis, are all people who defend the recreational use of such plants because it's a part of thier lifestyle.
i dont see where recreation and spiritual cultivation are the same thing


people who use it for spiritual cultivation dont use it because they like it

froth
02-02-2007, 05:17 PM
for what its worth, i love weed

LHX
02-02-2007, 05:34 PM
if you love it stick with it

just dont hesitate to let it go when the time comes


i used to love bologna and ketchup sandwiches

i used to love that track wiff Ja Rule and Jennifer Lopez

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 06:23 PM
they are here

we are here

we experiment with them

its a fairly straightforward process



sodomy developed for the same reason

a hole is a hole - better test it out


the question is - how often do you go back and re-visit a particular substance?

until you learn what you need to from it (even if that path has to hollow you out thru addiction)





yeah the modern Castaneda

that book has had its share of good press and bad press



there is a difference between 'learning' and 'being stimulated'

perhaps everything we do IS hazardous if it isnt done responsibly, and balanced in proportion

all foods alter perception


the use of a stimulating plant in a world where people look to avoid situations is not a recipe for abuse?




i dont see where recreation and spiritual cultivation are the same thing


people who use it for spiritual cultivation dont use it because they like it

Sodomy developed because of boredom and impatience. It wasn't experimentation, it was an itch that needed to be scratched. That's not the point though. The answer to how often you go back to re-visit a particular substance, is, if the substance gives you a better understanding of the world around you, then you do it as often as you please. As the choice is yours alone. The things you learn from these, again, if you're not a moron that just takes it because it's there, are limitless. So you don't just learn and become a scholar of what you learn. No one is ever accomplished at anything.

Learning and stimulation are different, but stimulation can lead to learning if you know how to grasp it.

Addiction is only happening when you, again, use it because it's there and have no positive reasons for doing so.

The good press and bad press of the book says nothing other than that people have different opinions. No one is going to completely agree with it and that wasn't my point in mentioning it.
If I wanted everyone to agree with the things I do, I'd probably live, talk, dress and listen to music much different than what I do now. The point there was to stress the fact that what I'm saying isn't just wild guesses and keystone theories. Obviously an exercise in futility to say the least, but still no skin off my back. Someone will benefit from those books and a few others to be found there.

All foods alter perception? Sure.

No. The use of a stimulating plant in a world where people look to avoid situations isn't a recipe for abuse. The plants were here before we were. The fact that they're still around proves that they all still have a purpose, because if they didn't, they'd be extinct.
The recipe for abuse, once again, is born from the people who don't know how to control themselves and want to blame the substance, rather than thier own lack of self-control. If the plants aren't there, they'll find some glue to sniff.

One of the meanings of recreation is, "an act of recreating or the state of being recreated." This ties into spiriual cultivation because people who practice spiritual cultivation are recreating thier perception and seeking to become a positive influence on themselves and others. So they (spiritual cultivation and recreation) are one and the same in this instance.
A person who starts this journey has only thier belief in what they've experienced and that there must be a profound truth to it. No abilities really. Once they begin to study and thier energy is alive and flowing properly, things like telekinesis and esp begin to set in. Bottom line, no one is the same afterwards. The person who started isn't the same person who's studying. If they study properly. They've recreated themselves.

The people who use these plants for spiritual means do use them because they like them, but that's not the ONLY reason. Unlike ordinary people, the spiritualists seek out and find which substances will best suit thier purposes. Not all psychotropics are head highs. Some are body highs. Not all make you woozy, some wake you up and hieghten the senses. Point being, you have to be comfortable with something before you make it part of your life. Personally, I love the way some plants smell and taste. To like what you're consuming makes consuming it that much more enjoyable. Plus, certain plants can be consumed different ways. Aside from smoking, some can be brewed into teas, the leaves and barks can be chewed, or you can add them to your food. The person may not want to smoke, and go for the tea instead. Or may want to make a psychedelic salad. Point is, the natural stuff gives you choices upon choices. Unlike the unnatural stuff.

A junkie on the other hand, or anyone who doesn't know any better and won't take the time to find out, will take anything available for the sake of altered perception alone. No matter how bad it may smell, taste or wether the trip will be a peaceful or terrifying one, or even if they'll live through it. They take it because they have to. Dependence. As it were.

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 06:30 PM
for what its worth, i love weed

Do it in moderation yo. Like silencer said, try to cut it to once or twice a week. 3 at the absolute most.
And for when you don't feel like smokin'.... http://applesoft.com/brownies/index.html :yes:

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 06:40 PM
I mentioned in an earlier post that marijuana opens up your Third Eye and Crown chakras. The 6th and 7th, respectively.

This link will show anyone that believes and is interested just what they are and what they do.

http://www.balanced-energy.com/a_bit_about_chakras.htm

BRASSKNUCKLED PAI MEI
02-02-2007, 06:42 PM
turmeric was the substance that originally influenced the development of Tylenol

turmeric is a very common spice used in cooking

when western scientists came across turmeric (which has been used since forever as a cooking ingredient in some societies), they originally tried to PATENT it

they tried to patent turmeric


when that failed, they developed a synthetic substance very similar to turmeric, and market it over the counter as what you currently use for pain relief



meanwhile, if you added a little turmeric to your cooking, you would get many of the same benefits


(you are not supposed to know any of this - keep buying tylenol)
Thanks for this!

LHX
02-02-2007, 07:44 PM
I mentioned in an earlier post that marijuana opens up your Third Eye and Crown chakras. The 6th and 7th, respectively.

This link will show anyone that believes and is interested just what they are and what they do.

http://www.balanced-energy.com/a_bit_about_chakras.htm


From the website:

The Human Energy Field or Aura is an energetic, multi-dimensional field that surrounds penetrates, and is the human body. It has rivers of energy called meridians that nourish every organ and cell in our bodies. These rivers are supplied by seven cone shaped, spinning vortexes of energy called chakras (pronounced "Shock-ra"). These chakras, in turn, collect energy from the Universal Energy Field that is all around us.



Do you acknowledge why this is a tough sell?

What is the difference between somebody who says "i saw a UFO" and somebody who says "i just cleansed my chakras"?

LHX
02-02-2007, 08:03 PM
Sodomy developed because of boredom and impatience. It wasn't experimentation, it was an itch that needed to be scratched. That's not the point though.

lol

why do you sound so definite?


The answer to how often you go back to re-visit a particular substance, is, if the substance gives you a better understanding of the world around you, then you do it as often as you please. As the choice is yours alone. The things you learn from these, again, if you're not a moron that just takes it because it's there, are limitless. So you don't just learn and become a scholar of what you learn. No one is ever accomplished at anything.

if nobody is ever accomplished at anything, i ask the question again:

why do you present this information so definitely?


Learning and stimulation are different, but stimulation can lead to learning if you know how to grasp it.

Addiction is only happening when you, again, use it because it's there and have no positive reasons for doing so.

cant addiction be part of the learning process?


The good press and bad press of the book says nothing other than that people have different opinions. No one is going to completely agree with it and that wasn't my point in mentioning it.
If I wanted everyone to agree with the things I do, I'd probably live, talk, dress and listen to music much different than what I do now. The point there was to stress the fact that what I'm saying isn't just wild guesses and keystone theories.

its also not based on any verifiable fact

Obviously an exercise in futility to say the least, but still no skin off my back. Someone will benefit from those books and a few others to be found there.

true

but a lot of 'new age' material can be just as damaging as it is good


sort of like drugs


All foods alter perception? Sure.

No. The use of a stimulating plant in a world where people look to avoid situations isn't a recipe for abuse.

man

thats not even what i said -

the use of a plant for stimulation is a sign of abuse - thats a different story completely


The plants were here before we were. The fact that they're still around proves that they all still have a purpose, because if they didn't, they'd be extinct.

which we?

everything has a purpose from that perspective


The recipe for abuse, once again, is born from the people who don't know how to control themselves and want to blame the substance, rather than thier own lack of self-control. If the plants aren't there, they'll find some glue to sniff.

if plants are a road to enlightenment, then shouldnt these same substances be able to help a person gain self-control?


One of the meanings of recreation is, "an act of recreating or the state of being recreated." This ties into spiriual cultivation because people who practice spiritual cultivation are recreating thier perception and seeking to become a positive influence on themselves and others.
re-creating perception?

isnt perception a steady stream?

it doesnt start and stop

its a constant

So they (spiritual cultivation and recreation) are one and the same in this instance.

i dont think you sold that one too well man


A person who starts this journey has only thier belief in what they've experienced and that there must be a profound truth to it. No abilities really. Once they begin to study and thier energy is alive and flowing properly, things like telekinesis and esp begin to set in.
theoretically

you cant dismiss people who call that pseudo-science

there is a reason why it isnt widely accepted

Bottom line, no one is the same afterwards. The person who started isn't the same person who's studying. If they study properly. They've recreated themselves.


are you bending english to fit your logic here?

re-created?
or evolved?

you know fully what the term 'recreational drug' means


The people who use these plants for spiritual means do use them because they like them, but that's not the ONLY reason. Unlike ordinary people, the spiritualists seek out and find which substances will best suit thier purposes. Not all psychotropics are head highs. Some are body highs. Not all make you woozy, some wake you up and hieghten the senses. Point being, you have to be comfortable with something before you make it part of your life. Personally, I love the way some plants smell and taste. To like what you're consuming makes consuming it that much more enjoyable. Plus, certain plants can be consumed different ways. Aside from smoking, some can be brewed into teas, the leaves and barks can be chewed, or you can add them to your food. The person may not want to smoke, and go for the tea instead. Or may want to make a psychedelic salad. Point is, the natural stuff gives you choices upon choices. Unlike the unnatural stuff.

A junkie on the other hand, or anyone who doesn't know any better and won't take the time to find out, will take anything available for the sake of altered perception alone. No matter how bad it may smell, taste or wether the trip will be a peaceful or terrifying one, or even if they'll live through it. They take it because they have to. Dependence. As it were.

youre bordering on to 'he doth protest too much' territory here

clearly you have been forced to give your choice of intake a lot of consideration in case you are forced to defend it?


its a shame we cant have the opportunity to experiment

WARPATH
02-02-2007, 08:05 PM
Psychotropics, if taken just because, are deadly. All of them. You can't say that, "Incorporating them into your lifestyle isn't wise." is biased.


You're taking it based on your lifestyle and the lifestyles of most people in the world. The people who actually have lifestyles that heavily incorporate spiritual cultivation, be it through kundalini, chi kung, astral projection, esp, clairvoyance or telekinesis, are all people who defend the recreational use of such plants because it's a part of thier lifestyle.

So people that defend maruijauna's drug use because it's part of their lifestye is not being biased?


I'm speaking from both sides of the coin. I smoked weed heavily for years. I've also went years without touching substance. I look back now, I wish I could get high, but it's so I can relax, not because of some deep thoughts I had. If you would've asked me 4 years ago, I would be saying the same things your saying. But a clean mind revealed something to me.

It's all bullshit.

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 08:33 PM
From the website:

The Human Energy Field or Aura is an energetic, multi-dimensional field that surrounds penetrates, and is the human body. It has rivers of energy called meridians that nourish every organ and cell in our bodies. These rivers are supplied by seven cone shaped, spinning vortexes of energy called chakras (pronounced "Shock-ra"). These chakras, in turn, collect energy from the Universal Energy Field that is all around us.



Do you acknowledge why this is a tough sell?

What is the difference between somebody who says "i saw a UFO" and somebody who says "i just cleansed my chakras"?

I said that post was for people who believed and were interested. Clearly this statement doesn't apply to you. Looks more like you're just tryin' to have something to say for the sake of it. A tough sell would mean I posted it for you. Don't over-estimate your importance.

That UFO question makes no sense an I suggest you come up with your own answer. As those are probably the only ones you're able to deal with directly.

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 09:19 PM
lol

why do you sound so definite?


if nobody is ever accomplished at anything, i ask the question again:

why do you present this information so definitely?


cant addiction be part of the learning process?


its also not based on any verifiable fact


true

but a lot of 'new age' material can be just as damaging as it is good


sort of like drugs


man

thats not even what i said -

the use of a plant for stimulation is a sign of abuse - thats a different story completely


which we?

everything has a purpose from that perspective


if plants are a road to enlightenment, then shouldnt these same substances be able to help a person gain self-control?


re-creating perception?

isnt perception a steady stream?

it doesnt start and stop

its a constant



i dont think you sold that one too well man


theoretically

you cant dismiss people who call that pseudo-science

there is a reason why it isnt widely accepted



are you bending english to fit your logic here?

re-created?
or evolved?

you know fully what the term 'recreational drug' means




youre bordering on to 'he doth protest too much' territory here

clearly you have been forced to give your choice of intake a lot of consideration in case you are forced to defend it?


its a shame we cant have the opportunity to experiment

Why do I sound so definite? I could ask you the exact sme question, as it was you who brought it up to begin with. So just for kicks, I'll answer it and see if you can do the same. It's human nature to tamper with things that haven't been tampered with before for the sheer sake of tampering.

In me saying that no one is ever accomplished in anything, I was trying to say that if Bruce Lee can deny the title of "master", then why should someone with a P.H.D. in anything believe that they're an accomplished anything? There's always something else to learn in any field. I hope that was clear enough.

Addiction can be part of the learning process yes. In this case having failed through stupidity. Again.

I don't base my life around so-called 'verifiable facts' all the time, because to rely on what someone else says simply based on a piece of paper that says they studied something you didn't is a sign of no belief in one's own instincts and thoughts. So you have fun with your stats. Nobody's trying to stop you.

A lot of 'new age' material can be harmful. The fact of the matter is, you won't go near it long enough to give it a chance and would rather pass judgements. So you'll never know.

The use of a plant for stimulation is abuse. No, the over-use of a plant for stimulation is abuse.

The 'we' would be mankind. You know, humans?

It's not about what 'perspective' I use, the point is it's true. Everything that's still here has a purpose. Wether you choose to confirm or deny it is entirely up to you. Doesn't really change a thing.

A person can have self-control with or without such things. Again, and I'm starting to loathe repeating myself, it depends on the person. Not the substance. If the person taking it is too stupid to realize that depending on the substance will rob them of everything else, then they really shouldn't be taking it in the first place. It's a lot like book. The people that need to read are the ones that are able to discern truth from falsehood and use it to the best of thier abilities. The people that don't need to read are the people that let thier mouths get ahead of them for the sake of sounding intelligent.

Perception is never a steady stream, that's insanity, because what you perceive isn't always what you may think it is. Plus, perceptions change constantly. How often have you read a book and taken a different lesson from a sentence you've read numerous times? If your eyes can decieve you, you shouldn't always trust them. Seeing isn't always believing. It's recreating THE WAY you perceive. Since it has to be practically written in crayon, a person may view Saddam's death as wrong and a horrible thing. Another may see it as him getting his just desserts. That's the difference of perception. One sees the surface the other sees the roots. The only time perception is a steady stream, is when one deliberatley dummies themselves down into believing that the only things that are real are those which they can see and touch.

As far as the way I 'sold' my explanation of recreation and spiritual cultivation, again, I'm explaining my position. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm trying to more than that. Contrary to popular belief, what I type isn't just for you to read and someone will see the truth in what I say.

Theoretically or not, I can dismiss people who call it pseudo-science because these practices were around well before any of these fancy trinkets that everyone is hopelessly bowing to.

The reason why these things aren't widely accepted, is because most people are deathly afraid of what they can't see. Period. They'd much rather call it not real or a hallucination, than consider the possibility that maybe there's more available to us than what we see. The reason why these things aren't widely accepted, is that people are so brainwashed, that while they curse a government that lies to them time and again every single day, they'll believe that same government when they're told that certain things don't exist because of lack of 'scientific evidence'. As if this evidence were something to be worshipped.

Bending english? Pick up a dictionary. Just like race can mean a class of people or a sporting event, I'm sure you'll find the 3rd meaning to 'recreation' very enlightening. Evolution takes millions of years, which is why I didn't use that word to begin with.

The term 'recreational drug' doesn't apply to these things because, again, they're plants. You may mean recrational as in a passtime, I mean recreational as in recreating.

Bordering on 'he doth protest too much'. No. It's called standing one's ground. I know you're not used to it and havin' people yellin' and cussin' by now and I'm truely sorry for you. None the less, it is what it is. There's no consideration to be taken on my part because all I'm doing is standing by my points. If you feel threatened by it, which is what your statement leads me to believe, then, again, I feel sorry for you.

As for experimentation, you can experiment if and whenever you feel safe enough to do so.

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 09:24 PM
So people that defend maruijauna's drug use because it's part of their lifestye is not being biased?


I'm speaking from both sides of the coin. I smoked weed heavily for years. I've also went years without touching substance. I look back now, I wish I could get high, but it's so I can relax, not because of some deep thoughts I had. If you would've asked me 4 years ago, I would be saying the same things your saying. But a clean mind revealed something to me.

It's all bullshit.

And just who would a person who defended thier use of marijuana as part of thier own lifestyle be being biased against??

It's not b.s. The problem is eveident. You smoked it heavily and didn't just smoke it. It obviously became a habit. When it becomes habitual, it becomes hazardous. Clearly, you only smoked it to feel better and that's on you. Don't act like deep thoughts are an impossibility simply because you never had any and don't get mad at the people who do have them either.

WARPATH
02-02-2007, 09:32 PM
And just who would a person who defended thier use of marijuana as part of thier own lifestyle be being biased against??

It's not b.s. The problem is eveident. You smoked it heavily and didn't just smoke it. It obviously became a habit. When it becomes habitual, it becomes hazardous. Clearly, you only smoked it to feel better and that's on you. Don't act like deep thoughts are an impossibility simply because you never had any and don't get mad at the people who do have them
either.

Your response is cute. Don't get upset because someone else is telling your that you can't think clearly. You know that you become a very wise person when you smoke bug spray laced dirt weed. Er.....I mean the kind buds.

Because that's Chi right? I mean you can feel the Chi flow through you after smoking a spliff, and now you can cure cancer.

Ancient Chinese secret my ass. I'm ashamed to use the stereotypical Chinese comic book character known as Shang Chi in my signiture now. I think I'm gonna switch it over to Jay and Silent Bob.

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 10:07 PM
Your response is cute. Don't get upset because someone else is telling your that you can't think clearly. You know that you become a very wise person when you smoke bug spray laced dirt weed. Er.....I mean the kind buds.

Because that's Chi right? I mean you can feel the Chi flow through you after smoking a spliff, and now you can cure cancer.

Ancient Chinese secret my ass. I'm ashamed to use the stereotypical Chinese comic book character known as Shang Chi in my signiture now. I think I'm gonna switch it over to Jay and Silent Bob.

Angry? lol. That was by far the worst attempt at reverse psychology I've seen in a few hours. You're the one cussin'. I don't believe you answered my question as to just who the people who defend smoking marijuana for other reasons than just getting high would be being biased against.

It's not my fault you bought garbage weed either. I'm speakin' of the home grown weed with nothing added to it. Obviously your buds should be the ones in question.

To correct you further, you'd have to practice chi kung to perform the medical practice of curing cancer. What a chi kung practitioner could do if weed was in thier system is clearly, well past your grasp, so don't bite off more than you can chew.

If you knew what Shang Chi meant then you may be on the verge of possibly learning something.
Jay and Silent Bob are more your speed though.

Civilison
02-02-2007, 10:18 PM
What is the difference between somebody who says "i saw a UFO" and somebody who says "i just cleansed my chakras"?

yooo! ill!... big ups!

LHX
02-02-2007, 10:32 PM
I said that post was for people who believed and were interested. Clearly this statement doesn't apply to you. Looks more like you're just tryin' to have something to say for the sake of it. A tough sell would mean I posted it for you. Don't over-estimate your importance.

That UFO question makes no sense an I suggest you come up with your own answer. As those are probably the only ones you're able to deal with directly.

to be honest, ive spent years studying chi and chakras, but over the past few years i have come to understand that a different approach is required if you are going to transfer your understandings to a broader audience

i wasnt implying that it is a tough sell for me - im saying its a tough sell for people looking for proof


i have no illusions of my place in the universe

i barely get any autograph requests anymore and my royalty checks are getting smaller and smaller

youre obviously a well-researched individual

im just trying to encourage you to take the next step



also:
you realize that a lot of people are profitting off of 'chi' and 'chakra therapy' and yoga and reiki and holistic medicine right?

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 10:51 PM
^^^ Of course I realize this, and those who do profit are good people in the fact that they use this to help people. I'm more along the lines of one who would want the people going to see these various therapists to learn the techniques for themselves, teach thier children, etc. So it won't just be a skill carried be a selected few.

Take the next step. And, only guessing, would that next step be a pursuit in trying to visually convey to people these things??

If so, then know this, I'm not out to start a healing renaissance of sorts. Consider Inspectah Deck's line in "The Grand Prix", "I own many jewels, drop more than I wear. I come in peace, prepared for the warfare.". What I learn is for me first and foremost. Different shovels for the same trench, if you will. So, when someone asks me something regarding disease or ailments, I tell them what I know freely and happily. They're allowed inside my fortress, but I'd never try to make them prisoners. I just tell them and leave them alone. If they want to know more, I tell them more.
Simple.

Trying to sell something like this to people who need proof is somewhat like trying to convince an atheist that God exists. In everything, some will believe and others won't. Belief seems to be the foundation for everything though. Not to say it's hopeless in the case of people who need to see proof, it's just a lot more difficult and I'd rather spend my time helping the people who already have it in them to seek it out. For now anyway.

LHX
02-02-2007, 10:54 PM
Why do I sound so definite? I could ask you the exact sme question, as it was you who brought it up to begin with. So just for kicks, I'll answer it and see if you can do the same. It's human nature to tamper with things that haven't been tampered with before for the sheer sake of tampering.
so why do you separate sodomy from experimenting wiff drugs?


In me saying that no one is ever accomplished in anything, I was trying to say that if Bruce Lee can deny the title of "master", then why should someone with a P.H.D. in anything believe that they're an accomplished anything? There's always something else to learn in any field. I hope that was clear enough.

fair enough

why not admit that chakras and chi and all the rest are theoretical and hypothetical then?

what is the harm in admitting that?


Addiction can be part of the learning process yes. In this case having failed through stupidity. Again.

I don't base my life around so-called 'verifiable facts' all the time, because to rely on what someone else says simply based on a piece of paper that says they studied something you didn't is a sign of no belief in one's own instincts and thoughts. So you have fun with your stats. Nobody's trying to stop you.

that would make sense if you werent trying to communicate with people

if you are going to communicate, it requires a point of reference

it has nothing to do with how you feel deep down inside and having faith wiff your heart and soul

we can talk about unicorns too if you want



A lot of 'new age' material can be harmful. The fact of the matter is, you won't go near it long enough to give it a chance and would rather pass judgements. So you'll never know.

dude
i already mentioned that im no stranger to the new age stuff

i read so much new age material its old age now

i worked in a ayurvedic clinic

studied chinese medicine

but the point i am trying to drive home here is that there may be a better approach to sharing your knowledge with people



The use of a plant for stimulation is abuse. No, the over-use of a plant for stimulation is abuse.

The 'we' would be mankind. You know, humans?

It's not about what 'perspective' I use, the point is it's true. Everything that's still here has a purpose. Wether you choose to confirm or deny it is entirely up to you. Doesn't really change a thing.

A person can have self-control with or without such things. Again, and I'm starting to loathe repeating myself, it depends on the person. Not the substance. If the person taking it is too stupid to realize that depending on the substance will rob them of everything else, then they really shouldn't be taking it in the first place. It's a lot like book. The people that need to read are the ones that are able to discern truth from falsehood and use it to the best of thier abilities. The people that don't need to read are the people that let thier mouths get ahead of them for the sake of sounding intelligent.

Perception is never a steady stream, that's insanity, because what you perceive isn't always what you may think it is. Plus, perceptions change constantly. How often have you read a book and taken a different lesson from a sentence you've read numerous times? If your eyes can decieve you, you shouldn't always trust them. Seeing isn't always believing. It's recreating THE WAY you perceive. Since it has to be practically written in crayon, a person may view Saddam's death as wrong and a horrible thing. Another may see it as him getting his just desserts. That's the difference of perception. One sees the surface the other sees the roots. The only time perception is a steady stream, is when one deliberatley dummies themselves down into believing that the only things that are real are those which they can see and touch.

that may be so, but you cant prove otherwise

in a system of communication that depends on visual symbols, you cannot have words for things that are not visual

it simply does not add up


As far as the way I 'sold' my explanation of recreation and spiritual cultivation, again, I'm explaining my position. Please don't make the mistake of thinking I'm trying to more than that. Contrary to popular belief, what I type isn't just for you to read and someone will see the truth in what I say.
so what is the point of saying that 'you dont care what other people think' but that you are stating your position?

obviously you are looking for a audience

which obviously means you are looking for feedback



here is your feedback from me:

1. well researched
2. stubborn
3. eager
4. logical

but at the end of it all im still calling you a rookie

too many inconsistencies
too many assumptions
too definite

and you use that tactic of taking shots at people and not being obvious about it

which is lame

LHX
02-02-2007, 10:56 PM
^^^ Of course I realize this, and those who do profit are good people in the fact that they use this to help people. I'm more along the lines of one who would want the people going to see these various therapists to learn the techniques for themselves, teach thier children, etc. So it won't just be a skill carried be a selected few.

Take the next step. And, only guessing, would that next step be a pursuit in trying to visually convey to people these things??

If so, then know this, I'm not out to start a healing renaissance of sorts. Consider Inspectah Deck's line in "The Grand Prix", "I own many jewels, drop more than I wear. I come in peace, prepared for the warfare.". What I learn is for me first and foremost. Different shovels for the same trench, if you will. So, when someone asks me something regarding disease or ailments, I tell them what I know freely and happily. They're allowed inside my fortress, but I'd never try to make them prisoners. I just tell them and leave them alone. If they want to know more, I tell them more.
Simple.

Trying to sell something like this to people who need proof is somewhat like trying to convince an atheist that God exists. In everything, some will believe and others won't. Belief seems to be the foundation for everything though. Not to say it's hopeless in the case of people who need to see proof, it's just a lot more difficult and I'd rather spend my time helping the people who already have it in them to seek it out. For now anyway.

this makes a lot of sense

i can dig it

Urban_Journalz
02-02-2007, 11:25 PM
this makes a lot of sense

i can dig it

cool.

WARPATH
02-03-2007, 12:12 AM
Angry? lol. That was by far the worst attempt at reverse psychology I've seen in a few hours. You're the one cussin'. I don't believe you answered my question as to just who the people who defend smoking marijuana for other reasons than just getting high would be being biased against.

It's not my fault you bought garbage weed either. I'm speakin' of the home grown weed with nothing added to it. Obviously your buds should be the ones in question.

To correct you further, you'd have to practice chi kung to perform the medical practice of curing cancer. What a chi kung practitioner could do if weed was in thier system is clearly, well past your grasp, so don't bite off more than you can chew.

If you knew what Shang Chi meant then you may be on the verge of possibly learning something.
Jay and Silent Bob are more your speed though.

You missed my point completely.

If someone could cure cancer from smoking weed, everybody would be doctor.

maestro wooz
02-03-2007, 12:28 AM
Perception is never a steady stream, that's insanity, because what you perceive isn't always what you may think it is. Plus, perceptions change constantly. How often have you read a book and taken a different lesson from a sentence you've read numerous times? If your eyes can decieve you, you shouldn't always trust them. Seeing isn't always believing. It's recreating THE WAY you perceive. Since it has to be practically written in crayon, a person may view Saddam's death as wrong and a horrible thing. Another may see it as him getting his just desserts. That's the difference of perception. One sees the surface the other sees the roots. The only time perception is a steady stream, is when one deliberatley dummies themselves down into believing that the only things that are real are those which they can see and touch.

just wanna say, this was a dope paragraph.

theafghan
02-03-2007, 12:28 AM
damn, this discussion went from curing cancer to chi energy to weed...

the silencer
02-03-2007, 12:33 AM
wow this thread turned pretty testy..

Slasher, this final post pretty much said it all tho....

^^^ Of course I realize this, and those who do profit are good people in the fact that they use this to help people. I'm more along the lines of one who would want the people going to see these various therapists to learn the techniques for themselves, teach thier children, etc. So it won't just be a skill carried be a selected few.

Take the next step. And, only guessing, would that next step be a pursuit in trying to visually convey to people these things??

If so, then know this, I'm not out to start a healing renaissance of sorts. Consider Inspectah Deck's line in "The Grand Prix", "I own many jewels, drop more than I wear. I come in peace, prepared for the warfare.". What I learn is for me first and foremost. Different shovels for the same trench, if you will. So, when someone asks me something regarding disease or ailments, I tell them what I know freely and happily. They're allowed inside my fortress, but I'd never try to make them prisoners. I just tell them and leave them alone. If they want to know more, I tell them more.
Simple.

Trying to sell something like this to people who need proof is somewhat like trying to convince an atheist that God exists. In everything, some will believe and others won't. Belief seems to be the foundation for everything though. Not to say it's hopeless in the case of people who need to see proof, it's just a lot more difficult and I'd rather spend my time helping the people who already have it in them to seek it out. For now anyway.

thats it right there....no matter how much you are i or anyone here tries to emphasize the point in as many words (and links) as we can, a dude like Charging Soldier (with all due respect to u CS) will not suddenly say "okay, you are right..maybe it was just me this whole time...weed does open up your chakras" or anything like that...

some people just won't accept this stuff no matter what..

some people won't accept it because it can't be scientifically proven or physically displayed..

im huge into science (you name it: physics, biology, cosmology, etc) but i'm also mad dedicated to alot of spiritual shit and stuff that CAN'T be grasped by science or expirements....its a pretty cool balance actually....when i read about shit like dark matter or the extra physical dimensions or the behavior of things in quantum mechanics it just makes me feel good in a spiritual way....

anyways, i dont like comin to KTL to argue wit peeps...i like comin here to try to learn some interesting shit from u ppl so..keep that up

Urban_Journalz
02-03-2007, 03:33 AM
You missed my point completely.

If someone could cure cancer from smoking weed, everybody would be doctor.

Let's try this again....

I never said you could cure cancer from smokin' weed. If you saw that anywhere, then you're brain is more trashed than you originally let on.

I didn' miss your point, because you weren't trying to do anything except make a mockery of what I typed.

For the last time, chi kung has been proven to cure cancer, diabetes and AIDS. A chi kung master that may take a puff here and there could do things that are way beyond your narrow scope of vision. *Please note that nowhere in the above did I say, "Weed cures cancer." or anything of the kind.*

Urban_Journalz
02-03-2007, 03:43 AM
wow this thread turned pretty testy..

Slasher, this final post pretty much said it all tho....



thats it right there....no matter how much you are i or anyone here tries to emphasize the point in as many words (and links) as we can, a dude like Charging Soldier (with all due respect to u CS) will not suddenly say "okay, you are right..maybe it was just me this whole time...weed does open up your chakras" or anything like that...

some people just won't accept this stuff no matter what..

some people won't accept it because it can't be scientifically proven or physically displayed..

im huge into science (you name it: physics, biology, cosmology, etc) but i'm also mad dedicated to alot of spiritual shit and stuff that CAN'T be grasped by science or expirements....its a pretty cool balance actually....when i read about shit like dark matter or the extra physical dimensions or the behavior of things in quantum mechanics it just makes me feel good in a spiritual way....

anyways, i dont like comin to KTL to argue wit peeps...i like comin here to try to learn some interesting shit from u ppl so..keep that up

True man. KTL is the one section of the forum that keeps the most static. Certain posts just invite an avalanche of s**t. It's still a dope section despite this and I agree. Let's just keep the knowledge flowin'.

LHX
02-03-2007, 06:19 AM
Perception is never a steady stream, that's insanity, because what you perceive isn't always what you may think it is. Plus, perceptions change constantly. How often have you read a book and taken a different lesson from a sentence you've read numerous times? If your eyes can decieve you, you shouldn't always trust them. Seeing isn't always believing. It's recreating THE WAY you perceive. Since it has to be practically written in crayon, a person may view Saddam's death as wrong and a horrible thing. Another may see it as him getting his just desserts. That's the difference of perception. One sees the surface the other sees the roots. The only time perception is a steady stream, is when one deliberatley dummies themselves down into believing that the only things that are real are those which they can see and touch.


just wanna say, this was a dope paragraph.

man are you being serious?

where does perception start and stop?

tell me when you arent perceiving something


there can be differences - fine

but perception is a steady stream as i said originally - i dont understand how you could say it isnt

you are perceiving this post right now



you are talking about conclusions or something else - but the act of perceiving comes along with consciousness

there is no real foundation for disagreement there

LHX
02-03-2007, 06:37 AM
wow this thread turned pretty testy..

Slasher, this final post pretty much said it all tho....



thats it right there....no matter how much you are i or anyone here tries to emphasize the point in as many words (and links) as we can, a dude like Charging Soldier (with all due respect to u CS) will not suddenly say "okay, you are right..maybe it was just me this whole time...weed does open up your chakras" or anything like that...

some people just won't accept this stuff no matter what..

some people won't accept it because it can't be scientifically proven or physically displayed..

im huge into science (you name it: physics, biology, cosmology, etc) but i'm also mad dedicated to alot of spiritual shit and stuff that CAN'T be grasped by science or expirements....its a pretty cool balance actually....when i read about shit like dark matter or the extra physical dimensions or the behavior of things in quantum mechanics it just makes me feel good in a spiritual way....

anyways, i dont like comin to KTL to argue wit peeps...i like comin here to try to learn some interesting shit from u ppl so..keep that up

the biggest problem occurs when 2 people have different interpretations of a word and then go at lengths talking about 2 different things that dont even pertain to one another

this is a case in point

i have no idea what interpretation of 'perception' was used by Slasher when he was disagreeing with me - but he typed a entire paragraph which does not seem to logically follow from what i typed


so how can a person respond to that?

for all intents and purposes, it destroys the discussion



it is the equivalent of saying 'this grass is green', and the response you get is 'to say this grass is green is insanity. it could be thick or thin depeneding on its location.'

in the first instance - the person interprets 'green' as something relating to color

in the second instance - the person interprets 'green' as something pertaining to width



i spoke of perception as the act of perceiving

it seems obvious that it was not interpreted that way - so the discussion gets side tracked



and the point remains:
until you can SEE a chakra, and SEE the weed, and see the weed interact with the chakra, and the chakra goes from a closed position to a open position, then the discussion exists in the same realm as a child who 'knows there is a santa claus'

maestro wooz
02-03-2007, 03:38 PM
man are you being serious?

yeah, i've never heard something put like that.



where does perception start and stop?

tell me when you arent perceiving something



what i think he just said, you're always percieving something, but you're not always percieving everything, and the only way you can be percieving everything is when you limit yourself to being able to percieve only what is right in front of you. I don't think perception ever stops completely.


there can be differences - fine

but perception is a steady stream as i said originally - i dont understand how you could say it isnt

you are perceiving this post right now


yes, but i probaly missed something. There's no way i could understand everything about this post, even though i've read it numerous times now.

I'm taking the word "percieving" to mean understanding, seeing whatever is at issue from another light. Your post for example, knowing differently (more) who it came from; your mood, a biography, or probaly just reading it harder and knowing exactly what you are meaning to say.

It'd take more then one or two splashes from the stream to completely understand, "percieve", your post.

Am i not understanding what slasher meant?



you are talking about conclusions or something else - but the act of perceiving comes along with consciousness

there is no real foundation for disagreement there

you're right, i don't think consciousness ever ceases, but i doubt it's ever complete.

Urban_Journalz
02-03-2007, 03:45 PM
man are you being serious?

where does perception start and stop?

tell me when you arent perceiving something


there can be differences - fine

but perception is a steady stream as i said originally - i dont understand how you could say it isnt

you are perceiving this post right now



you are talking about conclusions or something else - but the act of perceiving comes along with consciousness

there is no real foundation for disagreement there

While there is no real 'starting point' for perception, my point in saying that perception isn't a steady stream is this....

I take the meaning of 'steady stream' to mean that it has a single channel flowing to one location. This would only be a narrow form of perception, because perception as a whole would be many channels of different depths and lengths flowing to different places. My version of perception is just that except all of the channels I choose navigate toward the same place. Perception isn't just a mental faculty. It also comes from intuitive and moral foundations as well.

Seen from this angle, perception, to me, isn't just a single stream. If so, some parts are shallow and others deep. Some parts may have smooth surfaces or jagged rocks.

LHX
02-03-2007, 03:51 PM
i agree - you may not perceive the vastness or depth, but your system of perception is at work 100% of the time

live streaming media

no buffering

maestro wooz
02-03-2007, 03:54 PM
the biggest problem occurs when 2 people have different interpretations of a word and then go at lengths talking about 2 different things that dont even pertain to one another

this is a case in point

i have no idea what interpretation of 'perception' was used by Slasher when he was disagreeing with me - but he typed a entire paragraph which does not seem to logically follow from what i typed


so how can a person respond to that?

for all intents and purposes, it destroys the discussion



it is the equivalent of saying 'this grass is green', and the response you get is 'to say this grass is green is insanity. it could be thick or thin depeneding on its location.'

in the first instance - the person interprets 'green' as something relating to color

in the second instance - the person interprets 'green' as something pertaining to width



i spoke of perception as the act of perceiving

it seems obvious that it was not interpreted that way - so the discussion gets side tracked




maybe the irony is that everyone is just bad at explaining themselves?

or the truth is that we often make an ass out of you and me

LHX
02-03-2007, 04:19 PM
Wooz - i gotta find a thread for you

i think i posted it here


literally - it has little to do with how well you explain yourself -- especially right now, and especially using the english language

EDIT

fuck i cant find it


the principle is this:

what is interpreted by your words has little to do with you - this is directly linked to the thread about 'the power of attraction'


your words will not be understood by a audience that is not looking for what you are saying


a consideration of both sides has to be made


if you have time, look up the term 'glossolalia'

ill see if i can find what i was looking for

WARPATH
02-04-2007, 05:31 PM
wow this thread turned pretty testy..

Slasher, this final post pretty much said it all tho....



thats it right there....no matter how much you are i or anyone here tries to emphasize the point in as many words (and links) as we can, a dude like Charging Soldier (with all due respect to u CS) will not suddenly say "okay, you are right..maybe it was just me this whole time...weed does open up your chakras" or anything like that...

some people just won't accept this stuff no matter what..

some people won't accept it because it can't be scientifically proven or physically displayed..

im huge into science (you name it: physics, biology, cosmology, etc) but i'm also mad dedicated to alot of spiritual shit and stuff that CAN'T be grasped by science or expirements....its a pretty cool balance actually....when i read about shit like dark matter or the extra physical dimensions or the behavior of things in quantum mechanics it just makes me feel good in a spiritual way....

anyways, i dont like comin to KTL to argue wit peeps...i like comin here to try to learn some interesting shit from u ppl so..keep that up


Here's where i'm coming from:

I've experimented with many different drugs for many years. Mushrooms, weed(all kinds good, bad, laced- you name it), Acid, Exstacy....to name a few. In my years under the influence I would have advocated what's being siad here. Partly because I thought it was true, but in defensive a drug and lifestyle that is always being judged by the greater society.

Before I started expermenting with drugs, and after I quit, i've always been spiritual, traditional person. Meditations in extreme heat and fasting for days without food or water for days at time a in extreme heat is where I'm coming from now.

If anyone here has the expertise to speak on different energies such as chi here, its me.

Let's try this again....

I never said you could cure cancer from smokin' weed. If you saw that anywhere, then you're brain is more trashed than you originally let on.

I didn' miss your point, because you weren't trying to do anything except make a mockery of what I typed.

For the last time, chi kung has been proven to cure cancer, diabetes and AIDS. A chi kung master that may take a puff here and there could do things that are way beyond your narrow scope of vision. *Please note that nowhere in the above did I say, "Weed cures cancer." or anything of the kind.*

I know what your saying, and my mind isn't trashed. I apologise for the mockery, sometimes i'm an asshole when i'm trying to make a point.

A heart surgeon can operate on a heart, but would you let him do after smoking some chronic. What if he was operating on your babies heart.

By asserting my scope of vision is narrow is just ludicris.

Urban_Journalz
02-04-2007, 06:01 PM
I know what your saying, and my mind isn't trashed. I apologise for the mockery, sometimes i'm an asshole when i'm trying to make a point.

A heart surgeon can operate on a heart, but would you let him do after smoking some chronic. What if he was operating on your babies heart.

By asserting my scope of vision is narrow is just ludicris.

Apology accepted.

A heart surgeon would be in line with an acupuncturist, niether of which would I allow around me no. But since I was speaking upon the healers who use thier hands instead of needles, I still stand by my original statement. Concentration is a lot more focused if a psychoactive substance is in the system. Wether it be mental, physical or spiritual concentration, it's still a much more profound focus. Someone that knows how to heal with chi kung could probably still do the same things "high" that they could sober. If it were necessary. I wouldn't hand them a bong and say, "Here, try this before you start today." I'm saying that it would not inhibit them from being effective in thier practices..