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crass
02-04-2007, 07:08 PM
heavy subject. do people do it because they're depressed, insane, or depressed to the point of insanity?

do you know anyone who's done it?

how would YOU do it?

Black Man
02-04-2007, 07:11 PM
hard to tell...can't really ask the person who committed suicide why they did it.

i would say everything you said is a reason, and i'm sure there's more.

def. heavy subject.

SickSide
02-04-2007, 07:12 PM
yeah heavy, i say cause people get depressed and feel they cant go on, i read things about young kids hanging themselves cause they got wrong at school and think they parents are gonna go mad at them and shit

SickSide
02-04-2007, 07:18 PM
Gotta go on a mad car chase with police following, smash into a packed place, get out and blast brains out, masturbating before hand so onlookers get the money shot followed by blood splatters

Os3y3ris
02-04-2007, 07:24 PM
Only know one guy who'd killed himself.

Now, as far as why someone would do that, well, some things are worst than death. So I don't have any hate for anyone that killed themselves. Only they know.

As far as how to go about it, for fucks sakes, strangle yourself. It works, its 100% painless.

tobacojones
02-04-2007, 07:25 PM
Yeah! Suicide by cop with a ton of collateral damage. Or I would cut my hand off. If I end up getting lung cancer from smoking, I'm going to do it definitely.

Ultimate Fist
02-04-2007, 09:30 PM
I wouldnt just say depression. Angry too. They can't change the way the world is so they just give up. There's jealous ones too. Some commit suicide to traumatize their families out of revenge when for example, a spouse cheats.

LHX
02-04-2007, 09:33 PM
there seems to be 2 main reasons why people choose suicide:

- people kill themselves when they are in a situation that they feel they can no longer tolerate (a escape route)

- people kill themselves when they feel that they will accomplish something by killing themselves (a martyr)

crass
02-04-2007, 09:38 PM
- people kill themselves when they feel that they will accomplish something by killing themselves (a martyr)

that's true too.

maestro wooz
02-04-2007, 09:54 PM
suicide is a wierd thing, taking your own life. I won't say i've never thought about it, but i am still here. To be able to go through with it has got to be some heavy shit. I don't really understand it. If i were to kill myself, i'd probaly jump off a build, something grand like that. Definetley leave a note also (curb your enthusiasm anybody?)

crass
02-04-2007, 09:57 PM
(curb your enthusiasm anybody?)

tee hee.

i wouldn't jump off a building. i can't imagine the 10 or so seconds leading up till your landing.

maestro wooz
02-04-2007, 10:00 PM
speaking of suicide by police, i had a friend of alot of close friends do that almost a year ago. Really shook alot of people up. Alot of my friends still havent really come to grips with it. They were trying to press a suit against the cops, but nothing ever came from it. Some of the kids still think the cops should have been able to talk him out of it.

I actually wrote something the other day about it, i guess i'll post it here. It's pretty long and 100% rough draft, but if anyone is interested here it is


“In loving memory of Justin fisher”
“yeah man, rip”
“you know man, its such a tragedy, I loved that kid, that’s my heart”
“yeah it’s terrible man”
“god just snaps them away”
“rip”
“rip”
Suicide is a crazy thing. Taking your own life, wow you gotta be pushed far for that. When you come into this world all you got is your life. Nah that doesn’t accurately value your life. Your life is everything, without it you are not. There is no equal to life. A politician might be willing to sacrifice lives for a cause, but it’s lives for lives. If he doesn’t trade those lives, other lives are gonna be lost, probably more lives and if theyre not lost, something terrible is gonna happen to lives. Lives are the only thing equal to lives. There is no trading 50 dollars for a life. Maybe you pay 50 dollars to have someone killed, well you gotta have a reason to kill that man, he fucked your life up or made your life terrible. Maybe he took the life of your sister. Either way, it doesn’t make it a good thing. The taking of lives is never a good thing, even if he raped your sister. We have a penal system for that. Paying money to have someone killed is wrong cause the only thing equal to life is life and youre paying money to take life, money is not life, contrary to recent reports.
Anyways, a crazier thing might be police induced suicide. So youre a nutcase or whatever, you got medical problems that cause an imbalance or you’re uncle fondled you as a child and now you don’t know circle from triangle. You wanna go. This shit sucks right, youll press the delete button on yourself cause damnit it’s just too hard to keep playing this game. Okay, whatever. A reaction, reactions can be logical or illogical or other things, but it doesn’t invalidate them. You react by killing yourself. But instead of doing it, you get someone else to do it. So youre not really killing yourself but youre getting someone else to be forced to kill you. Huh? If you want to pull the plug, pull it, right? Nuts when it happens. Awkward position for all. At first glance you got shot by the cops. Tragic, whoop whoop the whole nine. Then it becomes apparent that you were falling off the ledge and wanted to go. Even more tragic. Everyone loved you. Then, the acceptance has to take place. Some can accept that you wanted to go and forced cops to do it. You couldn’t pull the trigger yourself. Ummm, okay pal. Not only did you wanna leave this life we all loved you in, but you couldn’t pull the plug yourself. Maybe im wrong, maybe you have a couple too many beers that night and youre girl is pissing you off, grades are bad, shits not looking up, and you start thinking dark, thoughts get rough, stop seeing the light, all of a sudden your goals seem so far away, the actuality of 10 years is replaced by the actuality of 3650 days, poor marks are gonna hurt you in the interview and youll never get the spot and never get the job, just like your parents have been telling you, or maybe you start thinking about how your dad never hugged you, or how your mom hasn’t cooked a dinner in years and your pretty sure she still drinks heavily and cant kick the habit and not only that but shes been drinking around and pouring out the misery of a bottle on your head since you were 8, whatever it might be, you start thinking it. The joyous drunk is replaced by the ravenous drunk wholl punch a hole in a wall or piss on some douchebags car most nights, but not this night, youre going a little darker. Shit starts really sucking. You start flipping out. Emotions pouring, words rambling, sense fleeting. You do hurtful things, think hurtful thoughts. That weight of the world we all carry right below the brain starts weighing heavily on you and its starting to hurt, you start thinking that maybe you cant hold it anymore and that’s when your grip starts to slippen. Doubt creeps in, and you know that Michael Jordan never doubted that his shot was going in. 62 Mets you gotta believe, if you don’t believe, its never gonna happen plain and simple. So things start weighing in. Keep screaming and now your heart has gone from a tipped over wine jug to the fucking hoover dam, it’s really raining out today folks. Now is when you do things that are hard to be forgotten. Fuck, you punched a hole in a car, your fist is bloody and people are wondering whats happening in the street out there. Youre fucked up worse then ever before, on 2 drinks and a nice dropping of the guillotine right on your dreams in your dreams. Not gonna be a good night. Police are called, youre still a madman out there, worse part is you know youre a menacing madman with no care for the future or your health or what happens next, and you still don’t give a fuck. They tell you to stop. Stop now? Cant stop. Gravity pulls you down, once you fall off the ledge the air doesn’t stop you, nah you keep falling and falling until you hit solid ground and at that point youre either dead or you didn’t fall to hard or you messed yourself up and youre gonna make it but you broke some things and theyre not gonna grow back as strong as before, and who the fuck knows how those parables turn out. Maybe you don’t hit ground either, you, a finite, keep on plummeting towards the infinite. So you start falling, solid ground appears below you but you crash right through it. Way too much speed, you got too much momentum and theres no breaks now. Maybe you broke em off yourself in a insane sadistic sealing of your own fate, or maybe they just fell off along the way when you hit a bump 20 minutes and 500 depressing thoughts ago. Crash through the first barrier, theyre only trampolines and lets be serious a trampoline is not gonna stop a runaway impala that’s burning on 19 years worth of working class child shattered dreams. You rip through it. To make the comparison even more relevant, at this point the man is involved. The fire is spreading throughout the building and the reds are stories below telling you to jump on their piece of rubber, except here theyre pointing real loaded guns at you and either you find those backstairs that aren’t burning and get out of the inferno of life, you jump and hit that fucking rubber bounce up like some kind of mickey mouse skit and everyone is laughing hugging and wrapping blankets around your shoulders, or you jump miss and instead of wrapping blankets around your shoulder they’ve got a stainless steel spatula bought at kmart scraping skull and brain parts off the ground and tossing your arm, which surprisingly snapped at your should quicker then a turkey wishbone, into a big black plastic bag which is headed right for the decomposer back at the station. Some born again nerd who found the inner confidence to spike his hair at forensic schooling is standing over your point of impact with a magnifying glass looking for teeth so they can make a dental matchup and positively confirm the identity of the guy who missed the trampoline. Cept in this situation the cops shot you.

maestro wooz
02-04-2007, 10:03 PM
tee hee.

i wouldn't jump off a building. i can't imagine the 10 or so seconds leading up till your landing.


yeah well thats why i would try to do it that way. If i'm gonna commit suicide i dont want it to be an easy quick decision.

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:04 PM
most people who get to the point where they dont want to live anymore arent really in the state of mind to consider 'going out in style'


im sure some of yall know that suicide in certain situations has been viewed upon as a noble thing in some cultures throughout time - what are the thoughts on this?

why does this society have such negative viewpoints on death and suicide?

Kong
02-04-2007, 10:07 PM
My mother did with sleeping pills just over 5 years ago, she was drunk when she did. She had a couple of attempts before that and she was drunk then to, I'd say they were a cry for help not actually wanting to end it, she never left no note either. It is a weird thing.

Ultimate Fist
02-04-2007, 10:09 PM
Really wierd. I had like 8 kids at my high school commit suicide in 4 years.

TAURO
02-04-2007, 10:11 PM
Suicide is a cowards way out..................................sorry if I sound insensitive but killing yourself is not a justifiable answer of escaping lifes problems.

crass
02-04-2007, 10:13 PM
Suicide is a cowards way out..................................sorry if I sound insensitive but killing yourself is not a justifiable answer of escaping lifes problems.

i would disagree, but anyway, to play devil's advocate, what's the point in being brave and just exposing yourself to more suffering that you can't overcome?

Kong
02-04-2007, 10:14 PM
Suicide is a cowards way out..................................sorry if I sound insensitive but killing yourself is not a justifiable answer of escaping lifes problems.

I agree when thinking about my life but looking at her life she was no coward just hurt real bad.

TAURO
02-04-2007, 10:18 PM
i would disagree, but anyway, to play devil's advocate, what's the point in being brave and just exposing yourself to more suffering that you can't overcome?It's called perseverence

You would disagree?.......so you think if you can't solve a problem life throws at you you should just end it?........what kind of fucked up logic is that?

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:18 PM
a coward is somebody who accepts abuse even tho deep down inside they feel they should do something

i respect people who would rather be dead than be a slave

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:19 PM
You would disagree?.......so you think if you can't solve a problem life throws at you you should just end it?........what kind of fucked up logic is that?

you are not considering enough factors

TAURO
02-04-2007, 10:20 PM
I agree when thinking about my life but looking at her life she was no coward just hurt real bad.

Regardless of her problems death is never the answer, there is always another way.

Sorry to hear about it though, it must have been hard on you also.

crass
02-04-2007, 10:20 PM
a coward is somebody who accepts abuse even tho deep down inside they feel they should do something

i respect people who would rather be dead than be a slave

for sure

and also it's easy to talk about perseverance and shit if you don't already feel like there's no way out/nothing left.

TAURO
02-04-2007, 10:22 PM
a coward is somebody who accepts abuse even tho deep down inside they feel they should do something

i respect people who would rather be dead than be a slave

you are not considering enough factors

Someone giving up their life to save others or some other noble cause is not suicide in my book.

Kong
02-04-2007, 10:22 PM
Regardless of her problems death is never the answer, there is always another way.

Sorry to hear about it though, it must have been hard on you also.

Yeah I know and I doubt she would of sober n yeah it was very hard.

I had loads of anxiety come on after my 1st post in this thread. Maybe I shouldn't of gone there on here.

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:23 PM
for sure

and also it's easy to talk about perseverance and shit if you don't already feel like there's no way out/nothing left.

troof

people do end up in that situation


and there are a number of ways to get there

its not as uncommon as it may seem
(especially when things seem like its going ok)

Ultimate Fist
02-04-2007, 10:24 PM
I had loads of anxiety come on after my 1st post in this thread. Maybe I shouldn't of gone there on here.

We're here for you dogg. I have a story too but I decided not to post it for that reason. Just know that a lot of us out here have gone through the same situation and feel for you.

maestro wooz
02-04-2007, 10:25 PM
im sure some of yall know that suicide in certain situations has been viewed upon as a noble thing in some cultures throughout time - what are the thoughts on this?


i think the honorable suicides of the past were usually different then the modern "i cant take it anymore" type of suicides.

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:26 PM
I had loads of anxiety come on after my 1st post in this thread. Maybe I shouldn't of gone there on here.
Alex man - its good to discuss these things

purge it from the system

help develop some closure on the situation


theres a lot of people who will shoot their mouths off on the topic, but it is good to come face to face with these things that we have been trained not to discuss

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:27 PM
i think the honorable suicides of the past were usually different then the modern "i cant take it anymore" type of suicides.
i dunno man

people who cant take it anymore literally cant take it anymore


nobody wants to kill themself, but some people feel they have to

from that angle, there is virtually no difference in motivation - just different from how it looks to the outsider

Ultimate Fist
02-04-2007, 10:30 PM
Alex man - its good to discuss these things

purge it from the system

help develop some closure on the situation


theres a lot of people who will shoot their mouths off on the topic, but it is good to come face to face with these things that we have been trained not to discuss


Dont feel like you have to though. Sometimes its best to take a break and not talk about it if its uncomfortable. You can always say more later.

Kong
02-04-2007, 10:34 PM
Alex man - its good to discuss these things

purge it from the system

help develop some closure on the situation


theres a lot of people who will shoot their mouths off on the topic, but it is good to come face to face with these things that we have been trained not to discuss

Thanks, I'm more calm now, I always think I have dealt with it enough to move on and be as free as I want then all of a sudden I'm in a bad place. Its crazy, I don't think I'll ever be free from it creeping up on me sometimes.

LHX
02-04-2007, 10:57 PM
Dont feel like you have to though. Sometimes its best to take a break and not talk about it if its uncomfortable. You can always say more later.

true indeed

Thanks, I'm more calm now, I always think I have dealt with it enough to move on and be as free as I want then all of a sudden I'm in a bad place. Its crazy, I don't think I'll ever be free from it creeping up on me sometimes.

i hear that man

the lesson that i seem to be learning lately is that the only way that the situation can change is if you become the one that creeps up on it and/or faces it straight up

its a dark place, but until you resolve it, there is a good chance that it will never go away


especially in a society where you get taught to avoid it

taboo


thats why Hagakure hit me so hard when i first copped it

i had never come across such a brutally honest discussion about death before



when i go thru the most difficult circumstances, i still end up re-visiting that book

its like a reminder that there is always allies somewhere who also endure suffering

maestro wooz
02-04-2007, 11:09 PM
i dunno man

people who cant take it anymore literally cant take it anymore


nobody wants to kill themself, but some people feel they have to

from that angle, there is virtually no difference in motivation - just different from how it looks to the outsider


true, but i think the difference lies in the details. Someone who can't take it anymore and a samurai who feels compelled to kill themself because of dishonor ultimately did the same thing, but there is a difference i'd say

To be honest my knowledge of "noble suicide" is basically limited to what i know of samurais and ancient east asian cultures, is there anything more then that?

I think suicide is definetley a taboo subject in our society. It's an awkward subject to bring up whether you were involved or just curious, as all death is. But i think it's for the best if we all learn to confront it and the best ways to approach the subject. So sorry if anything said makes you feel bad alex, but i think it's for the better in the long run.

crass
02-04-2007, 11:26 PM
society's taboo in cultures that value progress and "life" in the religious sense. in america, we are both of these. heavily religious people are much less sympathetic to the idea of suicide, i've learned.

LHX
02-04-2007, 11:51 PM
part of the reason it is taboo is because it is important for government to encourage people to live and be productive

one way of doing this is to make them scared to die


if you have people who are afraid of death and are afraid to disobey orders because of punishment, then you have the recipe for exploitation


if there was no fear of death, this current society would not be possible

people 'in control' would have no leverage over the masses



so in that sense - it is smart business

society's taboo in cultures that value progress and "life" in the religious sense. in america, we are both of these. heavily religious people are much less sympathetic to the idea of suicide, i've learned.
and we all know how effective of a governing tool religion is

maestro wooz
02-05-2007, 12:25 AM
i don't know how much of that i would put on the man, people would have that same problem until we start getting into our dream worlds.

LHX
02-05-2007, 01:18 AM
we have all these movies about perception

there is at least 3 or 4 of them that have been highlighted in this forum


you tell me if we would have that same problem if 'the man' wasnt there


eventually these type of discussions need to encompass the whole range of things that have been brought up


political discussions need to include that perception shit

it is all connected


the bottom line is - a lot of people end up feeling trapped in their experience on this planet, meanwhile we have reason to believe that it isnt necessary for it to be that way

why does it happen?


what the bleep do we know?
and why the bleep have we come to think we know what we think we know?

Os3y3ris
02-05-2007, 01:20 AM
I dunno. Its a social thing and not a natural thing. Thats why muslims and various other societies can put out crazy motherfuckers that don't fear death. Fear is not our natural mindstate.

Kong
02-05-2007, 12:30 PM
true, but i think the difference lies in the details. Someone who can't take it anymore and a samurai who feels compelled to kill themself because of dishonor ultimately did the same thing, but there is a difference i'd say

To be honest my knowledge of "noble suicide" is basically limited to what i know of samurais and ancient east asian cultures, is there anything more then that?

I think suicide is definetley a taboo subject in our society. It's an awkward subject to bring up whether you were involved or just curious, as all death is. But i think it's for the best if we all learn to confront it and the best ways to approach the subject. So sorry if anything said makes you feel bad alex, but i think it's for the better in the long run.

Nothing said has made me feel bad here its good to get other views on it.

When I think about the samurai way and "noble suicide" I think that they were brainwashed people, holding to much sacred and feeling so much dishonour for some little thing. Was it so different to any suicide? They feel bad about something they did or something that happened, seems along the same lines, they just already knew what is going to happen when they feel that shame in themselves, they kill them self. The reason why people seem to respect it today is because they got on with it so easily and never said a word, I don't see that as true honour though. A bit like the suicide bomber to.

I have to look into that Hagakure book soon, didn't they use quotes from it for the ghost dog movie?

Frontal Lobotomy
02-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Suicide is a funny one, the way I look at it is that if you look at the suicide rates of most countries, it remains fairly consistent through the years.
The scandinavian countries have the largest suicide rates in the world, while Eire (Ireland) has a suicide rate of 0% last I looked, interesting that. I don't dispute that peoples have their reasons for doing it, but they just contribute to a consistent statistic in my opinion.

Urban_Journalz
02-05-2007, 02:20 PM
I think the reasons for commiting suicide vary from person to person.

I don't know people who have done it. I do know people that I've stopped from doing so. In those cases, it was a situation where they were just tired of the garbage. I think we all get to that point at some time in our lives and it's a constant pain.

How would I do it?? I wouldn't. I not only think it's wrong, but it's a selfish act as well. There's always a reason to live, even if we can't see it. If there weren't, we'd already be dead without the help of our inability to cope.

LHX
02-05-2007, 02:29 PM
Suicide is a funny one, the way I look at it is that if you look at the suicide rates of most countries, it remains fairly consistent through the years.
The scandinavian countries have the largest suicide rates in the world, while Eire (Ireland) has a suicide rate of 0% last I looked, interesting that. I don't dispute that peoples have their reasons for doing it, but they just contribute to a consistent statistic in my opinion.
suicide rates in china are mad high too

I think the reasons for commiting suicide vary from person to person.

I don't know people who have done it. I do know people that I've stopped from doing so. In those cases, it was a situation where they were just tired of the garbage. I think we all get to that point at some time in our lives and it's a constant pain.

How would I do it?? I wouldn't. I not only think it's wrong, but it's a selfish act as well. There's always a reason to live, even if we can't see it. If there weren't, we'd already be dead without the help of our inability to cope.

all acts are selfish at root - even when you act responsibly and considerately - you do it because it seems like the right thing to do


if i had any reason to believe that there was someplace better i could go, i would go there immediately - it has little to do with life and death

Urban_Journalz
02-05-2007, 02:38 PM
It's how you get to that place that determines wether it was the right thing to do or not though.

LHX
02-05-2007, 02:41 PM
It's how you get to that place that determines wether it was the right thing to do or not though.

no disagreement here

its all about how you move - not where you are


there is a lot of good people in bad places
but they all move in the same direction