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noel411
02-06-2007, 06:40 PM
I think there is a trend of hip hop fans trying to “get knowledge” that is comparable to hip hop fans who try to be thugs and gangsters. This obviously being due to rappers going on about “knowledge this, knowledge that” in their songs and interviews, and also “dropping knowledge” in their songs. “Knowledge” is a heavily overused and misused term by both rappers and their fans. This is demonstrated when you visit a place like KTL and see the word “knowledge” being used in just about every sentence by kids who have no idea what they’re talking about, but want to “have knowledge” like their favourite rappers (not referring to everybody here). Another thing which influences this would be the gross overuse and misuse of the word “knowledge” by 5%’ers. Obviously also an influence in hip hop itself. I mean if you visited a deep discussion area on a rock and roll forum for instance, I’m certain you would find minimal and only appropriate use of the word “knowledge”.

A classic and hilarious example is in the Wu live dvd, where they are interviewing Ghost, and he can barely string a coherent sentence together when he tells us that Wu-Tang is all about the “knowledge”. That moment is so embarrassing. He looks and sounds so incredibly stupid. This is just one example of a common occurrence in hip hop.

Consider this. What does “dropping knowledge” mean? It means nothing. Knowledge of what? If I tell you that I like to finger my arsehole, my parting with this information could be termed “dropping knowledge” just as soon as if I were to share the complete history of Egyptian culture with you.

What does it mean to “have knowledge”? It means nothing. Knowledge of what? If I know who Britney Spears lost her virginity to then you could say I “have knowledge” just as likely as if I had information that could prove the existence of extra terrestrials.

Every living being with a brain “has knowledge” and “drops knowledge” almost every time they speak (if able to). These are not appropriate or applicable terms when used in the situations I am referring to. They essentially don’t mean anything unless it is specified what the “knowledge” is of. eg. “Rza has knowledge of Afrocentric studies”. “Immortal Technique drops knowledge about the US government in his music” (still doesn’t really make sense, but is passable).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for an individuals “quest for knowledge”. I just think that beginning this quest because your favourite rapper says he is “all about the knowledge” is a very bad way to start, especially when you begin by gathering information that is relevant to them but essentially worthless and irrelevant to your own self.

Moral of this thread, please stop using the word “knowledge” because you think it sounds cool. And if you’re interested in building your own “knowledge” then find out who you really are first and study whatever you feel is relevant to that.

Damn, I just dropped mad knowledge.

LHX
02-06-2007, 06:58 PM
so what constitutes 'knowledge' in the noel411 model of the universe?

Black Man
02-06-2007, 07:05 PM
the phrase dropping knowledge has a source. if you want to understand how this term came about you have to go to the source and not those that the source influenced. ghost has been influenced, he's not the source though. a better person to be heard dealing with the phrase 'dropping knowledge' from the wu would be jamel ireef.

the 'science' of the gods(5%) has touched the four corners of the world and many people have been influenced by the gods, so in this day in time, alot of terms and phrases are used as slang(the improper use), such as dropping knowledge.

unless you are the 5% then you will never know why they say what they say. the 5% don't use 'dropping knowledge' as slang. it has a meaning and the integrity of the phrase is preserved by the 5%. on this one, you can't be on the outside looking in.

you say dropping knowledge means nothing...it may mean nothing to you, however it means something to others. dropping knowledge pertains to the knowledge of self just to answer your question.

fyi, the wu-tang(and many other rappers) are not the 5%. there are a few members who are and ghost ain't one of them. the wu is heavily influenced by the gods so of course they will be able to use some of the language whether its correct or not.

rappers who are not the 5%...nas, az, papoose, busta rhymes, ghost, rebel ins, killah priest

if you have questions if a rapper is 5% feel free to ask.

noel411
02-06-2007, 07:05 PM
so what constitutes 'knowledge' in the noel411 model of the universe?

Don't mock me. One day the "noel411 model of the universe" will become a universal reality to all.

Black Man, what you are saying strongly solidifies what I am getting at here. Yes, these terms are relevant to the 5% in their own way. The main point of my thread was about kids being influenced by certain sources and using these terms innappropriately, as well as being led on a path that is not relevant to them.

LHX
02-06-2007, 07:09 PM
Don't mock me. One day the "noel411 model of the universe" will become a universal reality to all.

im serious:

what constitutes knowledge?

iniquity
02-06-2007, 07:12 PM
..
THE KNOWLEDGE OF SELF

KNOWLEDGE of self is the key to the knowledge of God, according to the saying: "He who knows himself knows God,"[1] and, as it is Written in the Koran, "We will show them Our signs in the world and in themselves, that the truth may be manifest to them." Now nothing is nearer to thee than thyself, and if thou knowest not thyself how canst thou know anything else? If thou sayest "I know myself," meaning thy outward shape, body, face, limbs, and so forth, such knowledge can never be a key to the knowledge of God. Nor, if thy knowledge as to that which is within only extends so far, that when thou art hungry thou eatest, and when thou art angry thou attackest some one, wilt thou progress any further in this path, for the beasts are thy partners in this? But real self-knowledge consists in knowing the following things: What art thou in thyself,


.. ? ..

Black Man
02-06-2007, 07:28 PM
Don't mock me. One day the "noel411 model of the universe" will become a universal reality to all.

Black Man, what you are saying strongly solidifies what I am getting at here. Yes, these terms are relevant to the 5% in their own way. The main point of my thread was about kids being influenced by certain sources and using these terms innappropriately, as well as being led on a path that is not relevant to them.

understood. there were question you asked that needed cleared up. you may already understand that, there's many who don't, so i answered your questions and gave a little clarity of how things come about.

you showed a problem but didn't give a solution and reason why it was a problem. i said what i said.

what you're speaking on is why I keep saying some people are not qualified to speak on certain things. i don't know what you heard ghost saying or on what dvd, i would never send somebody to ghost to learn about the 5%. he's not qualified for that task.

noel411
02-06-2007, 07:35 PM
im serious:

what constitutes knowledge?
Check a dictionary. My definition shouldn't be any different. The gathering of facts and information through study and/or experience, or any other form.

Everything we know and say (in general) involves the gathering of facts and information, thus why I said what I said in the first post.

LHX
02-06-2007, 07:39 PM
Check a dictionary. My definition shouldn't be any different. The gathering of facts and information through study and/or experience, or any other form.

Everything we know and say (in general) involves the gathering of facts and information, thus why I said what I said in the first post.
so you dont appreciate the results of peoples experience?

somebody like ghostface using rap lyrics to rise out of the slums is not sufficient proof that the man may have knowledge?

noel411
02-06-2007, 07:52 PM
That's got nothing to do with anything I have said. Of course Ghost has "knowledge". So does every other living being with a brain. It's impossible to not have "knowledge".

I did a thread yesterday about the use of the word "nigga". It was misunderstood by pretty much everybody who replied, and then closed. This one looks to be headed down the same path.

noel411
02-06-2007, 07:59 PM
understood. there were question you asked that needed cleared up. you may already understand that, there's many who don't, so i answered your questions and gave a little clarity of how things come about.

you showed a problem but didn't give a solution and reason why it was a problem. i said what i said.

what you're speaking on is why I keep saying some people are not qualified to speak on certain things. i don't know what you heard ghost saying or on what dvd, i would never send somebody to ghost to learn about the 5%. he's not qualified for that task.
There are no questions or solutions in this thread. It is merely some of my thoughts and observations. It has nothing to do with the 5% NGE, and I would not expect Ghost to be a 5%'er, nor would I most of the rest of the Clan.

noel411
02-06-2007, 08:04 PM
Correction. There were questions in this thread which I answered myself. Black Man then answered them from a 5% perspective.

Black Man
02-06-2007, 08:05 PM
Here's a question you typed. What does “dropping knowledge” mean?

You say it has nothing to do with the 5% but you say. thing which influences this would be the gross overuse and misuse of the word “knowledge” by 5%’ers.

Clan members (the rappers) who are 5%.

ODB, GZA, RZA, Jamel Ireaf, confirmed.

Ugod, meth, and rae, i'm not sure.

ghost said out his own mouth he aint' down.

noel411
02-06-2007, 08:10 PM
Cleared up that first part in my last post. The 5% comment was simply to point out one of the sources that brings about the use of the terms I referred to. It has nothing to do with the 5% NGE in itself.

LHX
02-06-2007, 09:32 PM
That's got nothing to do with anything I have said. Of course Ghost has "knowledge". So does every other living being with a brain. It's impossible to not have "knowledge".

I did a thread yesterday about the use of the word "nigga". It was misunderstood by pretty much everybody who replied, and then closed. This one looks to be headed down the same path.

i actually just re-read your original post and decided that its a pretty good rant

you raise some good points and they are worth investigating

i have no objections


i still thing you are a miserable bastard tho




just kidding

good work

noel411
02-06-2007, 10:04 PM
Like it or not, my serious rants are always quality. Just because I don't come in here to discuss the usual topics it doesn't mean I've got nothing worth saying. I just have no interest in most the topics discussed in here, and quite truthfully think a lot of what people discuss here is a waste of time and of no real benefit to anybody. But that's just my opinion.

And no need to joke about me being a miserable bastard. I am and I acknowledge it...Well I'm not literally a bastard, but you know...

I drop so many jewels my threads need security systems.

Urban_Journalz
02-07-2007, 02:40 AM
I think there is a trend of hip hop fans trying to “get knowledge” that is comparable to hip hop fans who try to be thugs and gangsters. This obviously being due to rappers going on about “knowledge this, knowledge that” in their songs and interviews, and also “dropping knowledge” in their songs. “Knowledge” is a heavily overused and misused term by both rappers and their fans. This is demonstrated when you visit a place like KTL and see the word “knowledge” being used in just about every sentence by kids who have no idea what they’re talking about, but want to “have knowledge” like their favourite rappers (not referring to everybody here). Another thing which influences this would be the gross overuse and misuse of the word “knowledge” by 5%’ers. Obviously also an influence in hip hop itself. I mean if you visited a deep discussion area on a rock and roll forum for instance, I’m certain you would find minimal and only appropriate use of the word “knowledge”.

A classic and hilarious example is in the Wu live dvd, where they are interviewing Ghost, and he can barely string a coherent sentence together when he tells us that Wu-Tang is all about the “knowledge”. That moment is so embarrassing. He looks and sounds so incredibly stupid. This is just one example of a common occurrence in hip hop.

Consider this. What does “dropping knowledge” mean? It means nothing. Knowledge of what? If I tell you that I like to finger my arsehole, my parting with this information could be termed “dropping knowledge” just as soon as if I were to share the complete history of Egyptian culture with you.

What does it mean to “have knowledge”? It means nothing. Knowledge of what? If I know who Britney Spears lost her virginity to then you could say I “have knowledge” just as likely as if I had information that could prove the existence of extra terrestrials.

Every living being with a brain “has knowledge” and “drops knowledge” almost every time they speak (if able to). These are not appropriate or applicable terms when used in the situations I am referring to. They essentially don’t mean anything unless it is specified what the “knowledge” is of. eg. “Rza has knowledge of Afrocentric studies”. “Immortal Technique drops knowledge about the US government in his music” (still doesn’t really make sense, but is passable).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for an individuals “quest for knowledge”. I just think that beginning this quest because your favourite rapper says he is “all about the knowledge” is a very bad way to start, especially when you begin by gathering information that is relevant to them but essentially worthless and irrelevant to your own self.

A blind man can see your point as far as the new-found-fad of some form of "knowledge" in a lot of hip-hop, that, in truth is either just pretty words, or quotes that stopped bein' deep by their 3rd or 4th utterance.

While droppin' knowledge is droppin' knowledge, wether it's about global warming or how many units Paul Wall (weak @$$ mofo)}:| sold this week, that's a point I think you should expand on more. That being, that there's useful knowledge and useless knowledge, which is eventual stupidity.

Everything has a pricetag, even knowledge. You knowing who Britney Spears lost "it" to is irrelevant knowledge, but there are thousands, if not millions of people who would stay up nights on the promise that this "knowledge" would be given. Once this "knowledge" is obtained, then what? Nothing. The people who found out have one more fact that can lead them all of nowhere.

The knowledge of proving that extra-terrestrials is a lot more valuble on a global scale. Not only would it attract much more press, but the obtaining of this knowledge could be taken in many different directions by the people fortunate enough to obtain it. A supposed 'conspiracy theorist' who wrote a book about 'Area 51' may see a surge of sales do to your discovery. A child may take up astronomy as a passion, etc. So, it depends on what the "knowledge" spoken of actually consists of, that determines wether it's true knowledge and not b.s.

I agree also, with what you said about not taking up a particular field of "knowledge" just because your fav. rapper spoke upon it and it has nothing to do with you. It's the same thing as d**k-ridin'.

Urban_Journalz
02-07-2007, 02:54 AM
..



.. ? ..

Word 'em up cuzzin.

"Odd as it may seem, great struggles such as the ones you see emerging from my journals are not always visible to participants. Much depends on what people dream in the secrecy of their hearts. I have always been as concerned with the shaping of dreams as with the shaping of actions. Between the lines of my journals is the struggle with humankind's view of itself. A sweaty contest on a field where motives from our darkest past can well up out of an unconscious resorvoir and become events with which we must not only live, but contend. It is the hydra-headed monster that always attacks from your blind side. I pray, therefore, that when you have traversed my portion of the Golden Path you will no longer be innocent children, dancing to music you cannot hear."-The Stolen Journals

:yessad:

Bloo
02-07-2007, 05:13 AM
Well made points noel and Shrop. Honestly I believe that it all has to do with not trying to seem stupid.

Hip-Hop has always been looked at like an idiots form of music and the general public associate rappers with being uneducated street hustlers with no ambition. Now most of that I also believes comes from the vision that's seen of hip-hop on BET and MTV. You wouldn't take a man wearing platinum grills in his mouth serious if he was teaching astrology. Most wouldn't even believe that they graduated high school.

So in an effort to stymie the stereotype they "kick knowledge" but it ends up being half thought out and just a mish mash of big words that's made to sound inteligent. Honestly they should stop asking rappers about the current state of hip-hop and ask them the current state of education or politics in america. Get a serious discussion going with them and then just maybe they'd think more about their lyrics and less about their status.

Prince Rai
02-07-2007, 06:20 AM
The word Knowledge means generally the same with many people, the use of it however is very different.

I understand the point the original poster made about the overuse of "knowledge". He made a very fair point as it may be, that we all sometimes overuse and thereby water down the potential full meaning of the word "knowledge".

Os3y3ris
02-07-2007, 06:47 AM
IMO, the problem is that a lot of the "knowledge" in question is rather suspect opinion or just outright false. IMO, if you call it knowledge, it should be able to be proven correct.

Prince Rai
02-07-2007, 06:51 AM
perhaps it is objective knowledge and not subjective?

Prolifical ENG
02-07-2007, 11:00 AM
What Black Man explained in his first post is right. Its just one of those original terms that just lead to another and now its something else that anyone can loosely say. I.e. Black Man dropped the knowledge in this thread.

Memory Man
02-07-2007, 05:49 PM
Here's a question you typed.

You say it has nothing to do with the 5% but you say.

Clan members (the rappers) who are 5%.

ODB, GZA, RZA, Jamel Ireaf, confirmed.

Ugod, meth, and rae, i'm not sure.

ghost said out his own mouth he aint' down.

AllHipHop.com: Are you still affiliated with the Five Percent Nation of Islam?

GZA: I’ve learned a lot, but I’ve grown. First and for most, I am Self. People get categorized as a whole and that’s how people begin to perceive them. The Nation of Gods and Earths was just the first stop. I am still Justice. I learned mad lessons back in the day. I am a part of the Nation, but I wouldn’t say that I am a Five Percenter.

I don't mean to nitpick, Black Man, I mostly agree with you in this thread.
Peace.

THEORY
02-08-2007, 02:34 AM
Seems like I remember RZA also saying recently he wasnt really down with the 5percenters anymore.

noel411
02-08-2007, 03:54 AM
Shropsher, that was a good post, but you may have missed the point of what I was saying. In my examples of "dropping knowledge" and "having knowledge" I was not trying to assess the value of different types of "knowledge", but rather trying to demonstrate the looseness of the actual expressions "dropping knowledge" and "having knowledge".

Bloo raises some interesting theories.

IMO, the problem is that a lot of the "knowledge" in question is rather suspect opinion or just outright false. IMO, if you call it knowledge, it should be able to be proven correct.
Ahhh, well done. A good point here. Not on every level. It is a relevant point which comes into play when I have referred to the "misuse" of the word "knowledge" and the expressions associated with it. However, even if you are aware of some information which is false, it is still "knowledge", because you have "knowledge" of that false information. But I see where you're coming from and if I have interpreted you correctly then I agree with what you have said. The way people actually use the word "knowledge", in the sense of how I have described its use in my initial post, is often inappropriate for what they mean to indicate by it. Damn, that was a confusing point to make. I hope people can understand what I'm getting at.

What Black Man explained in his first post is right. Its just one of those original terms that just lead to another and now its something else that anyone can loosely say. I.e. Black Man dropped the knowledge in this thread.
Black Man dropped so many jewels I'm thinking of putting his post in a glass cabinet...haha, sorry. Didn't mean anything by it. Just can't resist.

LHX
02-08-2007, 11:39 AM
im pinning this up so noel can have his moment of glory

(dont worry - he paid me)

Tito_Para Enfrente
02-08-2007, 07:58 PM
Hip Hop To Me Is Me. >> Hardcore.. > So I Think Its The Same 4 All Of U.. > Hardcore

the silencer
02-10-2007, 11:13 AM
4th Disciple:
"when i was young, i strongly seeked for the knowledge
i never went to college but acknowledged the fact that knowledge was first
thru the academy of the universe
takin everything for what its worth.."

THE W
02-10-2007, 11:42 AM
i think noel is saying that any information we have is knowledge but that there are different kinds of it.

true.

noel411
02-10-2007, 10:44 PM
im pinning this up so noel can have his moment of glory

(dont worry - he paid me)
Haha, thanks G. I feel honoured.

Can I be a mod too?
i think noel is saying that any information we have is knowledge but that there are different kinds of it
That is part of what I am saying.

maestro wooz
02-10-2007, 10:57 PM
i don't know noel, that's kind of why i like hip hop. I think the term knowledge can often be misused, and everyone thinks they got it. I don't find the same emphasis on social equality, awareness, and "knowledge" in other musical forms. It seems to be a little more rare, but i'm not saying nonexistent. The nature of rap also allows for the lyrcist to make their point better. The concept of knowledge is definetley overused and misused, but there is nothing wrong with the concept of it and it's a strong element of hip hop.

Some of the pro-blackness is absurd and stupid, but hearing what they have to say doesn't make you stupid. The black/white issue is still a huge problem in the US and while it's not as bad as they make it seem, it's not perfect.

noel411
02-10-2007, 11:38 PM
I think you misunderstood my post, homie. I wasn't saying I don't like, or disapprove of, rappers "dropping knowledge" in their music. I generally really enjoy this too, as long as it seems to be true to them, and not just an attempt at sounding smart.

maestro wooz
02-10-2007, 11:47 PM
yeah i read it right i just responded wrong. They should have had a track on wu forever explaining that just because you listen to wu tang you aren't smarter then everyone else.

snapple
02-12-2007, 10:38 AM
Consider this. What does “dropping knowledge” mean? It means nothing. Knowledge of what? If I tell you that I like to finger my arsehole, my parting with this information could be termed “dropping knowledge” just as soon as if I were to share the complete history of Egyptian culture with you.

What does it mean to “have knowledge”? It means nothing. Knowledge of what? If I know who Britney Spears lost her virginity to then you could say I “have knowledge” just as likely as if I had information that could prove the existence of extra terrestrials.



this has to be the least street poster on this entire fourm. son is stupid as hell. you don't understand thats all it comes down to. you smarter then ghost? how big is your bank account? how much respect you have in the streets? where are you plaques? stop hating nerdy ass motherfucker. i did not connect any theme to what youre saying, what do you wanna ban the word "knowledge" sounds like you just bitching to me, go pick up a hobby

noel411
02-12-2007, 05:07 PM
Snapple, thanks for contributing this tremendously relevant and thoughtful post to my thread.

I do not try to be, want to be, or claim to be "street" in any form or fashion.

I have nothing else I wish to say in response to your hissy fit.

THE W
02-12-2007, 06:38 PM
the true meaning of words always gets lost when enough people say them out of context.

Jet Set
02-15-2007, 10:19 AM
This thread was a good read. And the shades of knowledge is a great point, as just yesterday I shouted out that the navigation system was spitting knowledge.

Mumm Ra
02-15-2007, 12:32 PM
What does it mean to “have knowledge”? It means nothing. Knowledge of what?
Self

JackOfHearts
02-15-2007, 02:06 PM
sorry noel but hu r u to tell us what is and what isn't knowledge, when nobody truly knows what it is- knowledge is unique to the individual, everyone has their own ideas about knowledge- rascist people think they have knowledge about how races in the world should be viewed, politicians, muscians, actors etc all have their own ideals about 'knowledge'. you cant sum up the universe m8.