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Professor Poopsnagle
02-11-2007, 02:04 PM
Maybe this is the wrong section but I would like to keep this pretty much KTL.

1) Did You learn any philosophical ascpects of the martial art youīre practicing at your dojo/school?

2) Do You think that these philosophies can be applied to (your) life and do you live by them?
Considering how we are affected and influenced by our environmet, especially school and parents for example, do you think MA has a (positive) influence on the praciticiners mentality? Or maybe we learn our values mainly somewhere else and the things that go on in this small world itself (i mean the dojo) just affect the interested and open-minded who would contemplate about certain things and questions anyway sometime?

3) Do you think it is neccessary to have your master/teacher/coach teach you these? Or do we learn them by ourselves? What do we learn? And how?


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I did eight years of (Shotokan-)Karate, 2 years of Tae Kwon Do, 2,5 years of Wing Tsun and for 6 months Iīve been doing Capoeira and Kickboxing.

My teachers never gave explicit teachings on philosophies etc. But in Karate itīs in the martial art - "you never strike first" for example.

Then I didnīt care anymore - I just wanted effectiveness.

Now I think the more you train the more you can become the technique. and the technique becomes you. You develop your own style. That is the truth. Like Bruce Lee said: MA is an hones way of self-expression. This is all there is for me. No codex, no moral. At least not explicit. A teacher can guide - but before that the student must constantly train hard to find himself.

Os3y3ris
02-11-2007, 03:45 PM
Philosophy and martial arts only go together so far as tellin yourself whatever you need to to overcome fear. Aside from that, its irrelevant. It should be part of your daily life, not that one obscure facet.

Professor Poopsnagle
02-11-2007, 03:58 PM
^true. and i think that "obscure facet" is empty. but your experience - for example if you overcome fear - that is truth. truth you know, truth you are.

maybe afterwards...you begin to see yin/yang. who knows. but telling a beginner these things lead to misunderstandings.

Urban_Journalz
02-11-2007, 04:00 PM
Maybe this is the wrong section but I would like to keep this pretty much KTL.

1) Did You learn any philosophical ascpects of the martial art youīre practicing at your dojo/school?

2) Do You think that these philosophies can be applied to (your) life and do you live by them?
Considering how we are affected and influenced by our environmet, especially school and parents for example, do you think MA has a (positive) influence on the praciticiners mentality? Or maybe we learn our values mainly somewhere else and the things that go on in this small world itself (i mean the dojo) just affect the interested and open-minded who would contemplate about certain things and questions anyway sometime?

3) Do you think it is neccessary to have your master/teacher/coach teach you these? Or do we learn them by ourselves? What do we learn? And how?


-------------------------------------------
I did eight years of (Shotokan-)Karate, 2 years of Tae Kwon Do, 2,5 years of Wing Tsun and for 6 months Iīve been doing Capoeira and Kickboxing.

My teachers never gave explicit teachings on philosophies etc. But in Karate itīs in the martial art - "you never strike first" for example.

Then I didnīt care anymore - I just wanted effectiveness.

Now I think the more you train the more you can become the technique. and the technique becomes you. You develop your own style. That is the truth. Like Bruce Lee said: MA is an hones way of self-expression. This is all there is for me. No codex, no moral. At least not explicit. A teacher can guide - but before that the student must constantly train hard to find himself.
1)
Honestly, when I first started to learn martial arts, they didn't teach much philosophy. Just the basic, "Be patient" and "Don't strike first". Technique was always emphasized. I was very young, so naturally at the time I didn't care. Later on in life, as I got back into wanting to be healthy and do some of those insane moves I used to do, I started to wonder just what those old masters in those kung-fu flicks were on when they'd say things like, "You're using external force, now you must master internal, which is the key to all power." I had to go out on my own and seek out books on the principles and theories of these styles myself.

2) Yes, I think these philosophies can be applied to my wayof life. In fact, I try to incorporate them at every turn and live by them because they're a recasting of personal principles That I already have. I think the martial arts have a very positive impact on the practitioner's mentality, especially if they're learning it to better themselves and not to be a bully. The values we learn aren't confined to any specific place and time. I think it depends on the person how certain lessons are understood, misunderstood, or if they're understood at all. The school, dojo or temple has many lessons, provided they go past technique and into the philosophy, that can be understood by anyone if taught properly. Of course, the thinkers will get it instantly and be more likely to meditate on it, however, the ones who have difficulty can still learn and apply it accordingly. Sometimes deep thought has to be practiced as much as the physical technique. This can go for martial arts, playing video games, riding a bike, etc.

3)
I think it's necessary for the teachers to introduce their students to this, because a person may go all their lives thinking that the real power of martial arts lies in how strong you are and therefore miss out on the benefits of relfection and insight of the original masters of the style. Right now, people think styles like Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Drunken Fist are useless because their softer styles than Tiger Claw or Shaolin Fist. When the real power lies in the philosophy of these styles. It of course helps if, as you learn from your master, you go out and collect books on the philosophy and theory of the style yourself. He or she may not know the philosophy in it's entirety, or they may even make a mistake. You may not understand what they tell you and execute the theory incorrectly.
Some people learn better from the master and some learn better on their own. Very few can create a balance between the two and benefit from both.
From the philosophies and theories, I believe we learn a lot. We learn that the mental aspect of martial arts is much more important than the physical. The Shaolin Monks have a rigorous training method for their bodies and if one isn't mentally patient, they won't get to the physical level that makes the styles of the temple so ferocious and powerful. Also, the philosophies teach us how to manipulate the opponent much better than any variation of a grapple or counter-attack. The philosophies teach us to use our imaginations as we learn the techniques.

Battle 1
02-11-2007, 04:25 PM
As one progresses through the arts or even one particular style even, then they are going to usually start to take it even deeper. And when that happens then philosophy does play a part.

If you really look at it technique can continually be developed through learning and understanding more about the movements or moves, but speed and power for example are just physical aspects that comes through physical training alone actually.


You can be the fastest by just doing alot of cardio to develop speed, and then be the strongest by lifting weights to develop power. And then comes the technique part which requires practicing and understanding the movements in the moves of your particular style or styles. One can take it even deeper by going into the philosophy of the art as well even. And of course some arts even require the combination of the two (moves as well as understanding the philosophy) to really fully understand or grasp the entire meaning of the art therfore to master the art.


:dududu:

Professor Poopsnagle
02-11-2007, 04:33 PM
thank you for your opinion and thoughts on this. good read.

I forgot to add a thought to my initial post though: What about martial artists who donīt have any philosophy in their martial art? Muay Thai, (Kick)boxing, Krav Maga, Wrestling or Swordfighting (European Knight Style?!), Stickfighting (Escrima from the Philipines for example), UFC-/PRIDE-Fighters or Police/Terrorists/Gangastas with guns (i have no experience*whatsoever with this one, just a guess)?

They are masters of their martial art as well. And Fedor or CroCop surely do meditate one way or another*- maybe not in an asian/esoteric way. But they are masters of precision, strenght(exterior*and*interior) and strategy.

Thatīs where I amongst other things deducted that*your*self-discipline*in*doing*the*technique*can*change*you.* I*myself*started*myself*in*my*movements.*For*other s*it*might*be*a*kick.*For*me*itīs*my*kick.*The*kic k.*The*strike.*And then I see a pattern. A way. And this I try to live. To use it in my life. This is how I overcome fear maybe, how iI face confrontation, how I learn from others and from myself. You*feel*me*on*this?

Then even the kung fu-flicks start to make sense, lol.

Or even sparring: you train with someone. you help each other learn or train. there is a lot in this I think. How you treat others with respect. Honesty. For me, it can be there.

I think it is not a mere bonus but almost a necessity. Maybe the student must be introtuced to it. But maybe not? Maybe a guy does boxing and his coach doenst tell him this and that but to hold his elbows close to his body and to fucking move. But he learns something not so outspoken.

edit: my browser is going nuts... :-(
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Os3y3ris
02-11-2007, 04:43 PM
What about martial artists who donīt have any philosophy in their martial art? Muay Thai, (Kick)boxing, Krav Maga, Wrestling or Swordfighting (European Knight Style?!), Stickfighting (Escrima from the Philipines for example), UFC-/PRIDE-Fighters or Police/Terrorists/Gangastas with guns (i have no experience*whatsoever with this one, just a guess)?

To clarify, muay thai is FILLED with religious and philosophical ideas. Case in point; the ram muay.

Anyways, philosophy just isn't necessary here. Those styles live and die based on the strength of their technique and nothing else.

Civilison
02-11-2007, 06:10 PM
like O was saying, philosophy and martial art go together.

i never studied martial arts but delved into the philosophical aspect of it.

i can imagine it must be a 'complete, whole' feeling to be both in tune with the spiritual and physical aspect of a martial art.

peace to all of you here that get into these sciences!

Os3y3ris
02-11-2007, 07:27 PM
like O was saying, philosophy and martial art go together.

I kinda said the opposite actually. Philosophy should be a part of your daily life IMO.

Civilison
02-11-2007, 07:31 PM
lmao

my bad man.

but you're telling me when you're out there with the opponent in front of you you're not philosophizing, contemplating, scheming how to get him? body movements, angles, techniques, speed, etc...

philosophy on a different level?

Os3y3ris
02-11-2007, 07:41 PM
I USED to do that. Now I play on a different level. It's like chess. You don't sit down at the board and start making shit up. You already have a bunch of opening, attack and/or defensive patterns memorized and ready to go. Some come from your own experience, others from the experience of others. Given optimal conditions, you just put the plan into action. Thats my martial arts. Barring any surprises on behalf of my opponent, I simply run through a routine and see it through to its natural conclusion. I don't think, but act.

Professor Poopsnagle
02-11-2007, 07:44 PM
on a different level. thatīs what iīm saying. me. him. in those moments...attack, defense, courage, tactic, willpower...that reveals your character. to me there you live your philosophy.

or like rocky puts it: whatīs wrong with standing toe to toe and saying I AM?

Civilison
02-11-2007, 07:45 PM
i hear you

that's what i was talking about tho...

body movements, angles, techniques, speed, etc...that's what i love about martial arts:

spontaneousness and directness of action.

Os3y3ris
02-11-2007, 07:46 PM
Cool.

LHX
02-11-2007, 08:33 PM
martial arts never end


chew your food properly

Professor Poopsnagle
02-13-2007, 01:24 PM
^what do you mean by that?

LHX
02-13-2007, 05:10 PM
martial arts flows into every aspect of life imaginable

it is a process of refining self which knows no bounds


the quest for self-perfection is relentless

Professor Poopsnagle
02-13-2007, 06:22 PM
^ thanks. sounds good. didnīt know if you were just clowning.