PDA

View Full Version : Shaolin Workout


JackOfHearts
02-12-2007, 02:29 PM
by sifu shi yan ming

has anybody read this, if so what did you think?

Urban_Journalz
02-12-2007, 04:22 PM
Yo, I've had my eye on this book for a cool minute. I've read mixed reviews, but a lot of it seems to be very positive. I'm getting deeper and deeper into isometrics because western weight training is a joke. The fact that a Shaolin Warrior Monk actually ut together a set of isometrics is a great buy for anyone who wants to get in shape the right way though. I'm still gonna cop it when I get a chance too.

Went to Sifu Yan Ming's website not too long ago too, and his insights are crazy nice. I have no doubt that the book is dope though.

froth
02-12-2007, 05:40 PM
well western weight training isnt a joke, thats a little harsh

Urban_Journalz
02-12-2007, 10:04 PM
^^^True. I should be more specific.

For people who want to gain a respectable physique, then it's a good idea. Constant weight lifting ages the body though. Plus, you're left with a towering figure, but no speed or endurance, just a reason for the ladies to stare.

That's why I like eastern exercise and isometrics. Not to say that I won't or don't incorporate weights in my regiment, but I do eastern-style weight training that emphasizes endurance and strength instead of just raw power alone.

A lot of cats you we see at muscle beach and packed into gyms, yeah, they can bench 3 and 400, but if given the same amount of weight attached to the body and told to run as far as they could with it, most wouldn't make it past 5 strides. I just think it's a bit funny because cats that will brag on how much they can bench press, can't wrap their minds around a person 3 times smaller than them that's able to smash bricks with one stroke of the palm. It depends on what your goals are when you first start exercisin' though I guess.

JackOfHearts
02-14-2007, 08:17 AM
yeh but tbh, the workout must surely add pounds of muscle and tone u as well, cos thats still important/

Urban_Journalz
02-14-2007, 10:30 AM
yeh but tbh, the workout must surely add pounds of muscle and tone u as well, cos thats still important/

Definitely. All isometrics do is use the weight and pressure of muscle on muscle. How long you continue the exercise is the equivalent of how many weights you add to the barbell so to speak.

I had a book with a bunch of old Shaolin exercise methods in it and most of them are external. Meaning they require the use of tightened muscles instead of loose ones. Just tightening your fist for a punch, you're using energy. Whereas if you strike with an open hand, you'll have greater speed because all of your energy is free flowing. Isometrics of course has you already using energy to begin with, so enough of it will create a great amount of wai dan chi (physical energy) in whatever area of the body you happen to be concentrating on.

I'm still wondering what the combination of isometrics and proper weight training would do.:=)

zeppelin2k
02-14-2007, 05:21 PM
^^^True. I should be more specific.

For people who want to gain a respectable physique, then it's a good idea. Constant weight lifting ages the body though. Plus, you're left with a towering figure, but no speed or endurance, just a reason for the ladies to stare.

That's why I like eastern exercise and isometrics. Not to say that I won't or don't incorporate weights in my regiment, but I do eastern-style weight training that emphasizes endurance and strength instead of just raw power alone.

A lot of cats you we see at muscle beach and packed into gyms, yeah, they can bench 3 and 400, but if given the same amount of weight attached to the body and told to run as far as they could with it, most wouldn't make it past 5 strides. I just think it's a bit funny because cats that will brag on how much they can bench press, can't wrap their minds around a person 3 times smaller than them that's able to smash bricks with one stroke of the palm. It depends on what your goals are when you first start exercisin' though I guess.

getting big and lifting big are two different things
you sound like you are just against western bodybuilding, how about you try it before you cry about it

if you want to get big, you have to eat big as well, if you eat to maintain and train western style you wont get big (or at least as big as you could be getting with more calories)

also, saying that big guys are slow or cant move is the stupidest thing you could have said, have you ever heard of HIIT, or the UFC, the strongman competition?

I understand you love your shaolin stuff, but I can bet you right now that both the east and west have overlapping training styles to achieve the same goals

as for the eastern martial arts they are pretty good, but they have heavy competition from the brazilian grapple styles

btw bodybuilding and martial arts are two totally different things, that can be done at the same time, its not one or the other

Urban_Journalz
02-16-2007, 01:11 PM
getting big and lifting big are two different things
you sound like you are just against western bodybuilding, how about you try it before you cry about it

if you want to get big, you have to eat big as well, if you eat to maintain and train western style you wont get big (or at least as big as you could be getting with more calories)

also, saying that big guys are slow or cant move is the stupidest thing you could have said, have you ever heard of HIIT, or the UFC, the strongman competition?

I understand you love your shaolin stuff, but I can bet you right now that both the east and west have overlapping training styles to achieve the same goals

as for the eastern martial arts they are pretty good, but they have heavy competition from the brazilian grapple styles

btw bodybuilding and martial arts are two totally different things, that can be done at the same time, its not one or the other

I am against western bodybuilding because it doesn't give you long-term results. Which is what I'm after, so you can have it. There's no need for me to try it when I can study what it does before I go ahead and decide to follow the crowd, or someone who just talks to hear themselves speak.

Eating big has nothing to do with my way of muscle gaining. You're thinking about the quick and easy way to get big. I'm thinking about the smart way to get big because I want to still have my speed and precision, not just a bunch of dead weight in the form of muscle.

On the subject of dead weight in the form of muscle, let's just see who's really stupid in this equasion, shall we??}:|

I said that most western weightlifters would have no power if the weight that they benchpress were distributed to their whole body and they were told to run with it. YOU'RE saying that, in me saying that, I'm saying that all people who lift weights are slow. Clearly missing the point, but I'll get to that in a minute.
Since you missed my original point, here it is in crayon. Benchpressers and heavy lifters in general only concentrate on a few things. Namely, the area thay they're trying to tone up and how fast they can get there. Endurance and longevity don't even enter into it. Plus, very few, if any, do it every single day. Even if it's just an hour here and an hour there. They try to cram it all in in one weekend. Also, it's usually for show, instead of actual self-improvement. In the east, you'll never see anyone lookin' like they should be on muscle magazine. Here and there, you'll get a Bolo Yeung, but not often. Even at that, I'm not saying that all people who lift weights in teh weat are slow, but they'll never be as fast as they could be, or as fast as the monks who spread the weight to the whole body and work out with it on. Never.

The UFC?? :lmao: What?? Kickboxing and grappling?? Wow. Ok. First of all, if you think that's speed, then I feel sorry for you. I've seen faster movement and move faster myself. Plus it's boring to watch. All they do is throw a few kicks that are easily caught or blocked and IF those kicks connect, the kicker usually ends up getting bum-rushed into a grappling competition. Also, as hard as those dudes train, there's a serious flaw any time all it takes is one good hit to the jaw to have 'em crumble. Yeah, I've watched those sorry excuses for competitions and they're only one-step up from the WWE. Most, if not all of those so-called fighters only concentrate on external power. Which is fine, but only if you're up against someone who's either unfamiliar, or one-track minded when it comes to the martial arts. Some of those cats may have speed, but none of them have the equal balance of speed, precision and power, because they weren't training, or trained properly for it.

The eastern martial arts are under pressure because of brazilian grapple styles you say. Hmm. Interesting. So, you're saying that Northern Kung-Fu, Southern Kung-Fu (both having well over 200 styles between just those two alone), Tae Kwon Do, All forms of Karate, Ninjitsu, Kenpo, Aikido, Escrima (which can be adapted in many ways) are ALL under "heavy competition" from a few grappling styles from brazil?? Why? It can only be because grappling styles are becoming more POPULAR in the west and are also much easier to learn. Well, in that case, you should remember, or learn rather, this; a grappler has to get past your line of defense. He or she has to get in close enough to grapple and then has to take hold of you. If said grappler were to encounter a person who would know what to do either in close combat, say, Wing Chun, or with a foolish charge of ody weight, say, Chin Na, then they'd be in serious trouble. Likewise if they just stuck to those comedically simple kickboxing methods. All it takes is one good block or block and hold, if the opponent knows what they're doing.

Eastern and western exercises may have the same TOOLS, but the METHODS of using those tools are completely different. There's only a hand full of people who can stand Shaolin weight training and you don't even hear about them unless you know where to look. Another ad thing about something that's popular. 9 times out of 10, it's either a watered down version of a better method, or it's flat out useless in the long-run.

Marital arts without weight training is foolish. I'd like to know just where I said that martial arts and weight training are the same thing that cannot be done at the same time. Just lookin' at the sentence leads me to believe that you should've considered the statement before you typed it and really, before you had the nerve to call anyone stupid.:yessad:

Os3y3ris
02-16-2007, 03:18 PM
The UFC?? :lmao: What?? Kickboxing and grappling??

Are you serious? LOL

Wow. Ok. First of all, if you think that's speed, then I feel sorry for you. I've seen faster movement and move faster myself.

First off, they're damn fast. The other guy isn't LETTING him get hit.


Plus it's boring to watch.

Thats because you don't know what you're looking at, as demonstrated by the next statement.

All they do is throw a few kicks that are easily caught or blocked and IF those kicks connect, the kicker usually ends up getting bum-rushed into a grappling competition.

NO, NO, NO. I actually know muay thai. You don't just throw a round kick. Do you know how many their are? Inside kick, outside kick, bell kick, round kick, boar kick (from bando), burst the tire, and a ton of others. Thats just off the round house and as far as i felt like differentiating for this convo. Its not one kick, its a dozen that superficially resemble eachother.

Also, as hard as those dudes train, there's a serious flaw any time all it takes is one good hit to the jaw to have 'em crumble.

Dude, no. First of all, watch Nog vs Fedor. Watch Nog vs Sapp. In both cases, Nog is beat to a bloody pulp, but doesn't go out. In the latter fight, he required two weeks hospitalization despite winning. Where do you get that one hit takes these guys out?

Most, if not all of those so-called fighters only concentrate on external power.

Erm, lol? A black belt and a white belt do the same moves. They might even look exactly the same. Whats the difference?

Some of those cats may have speed, but none of them have the equal balance of speed, precision and power, because they weren't training, or trained properly for it.

Crocop. Fedor. Case closed. Watch them fight. They're fast, they don't miss, they can put the strikes through the guard and especially in Crocops case, they have finishing power with one blow.

The eastern martial arts are under pressure because of brazilian grapple styles you say. Hmm. Interesting. So, you're saying that Northern Kung-Fu, Southern Kung-Fu (both having well over 200 styles between just those two alone), Tae Kwon Do, All forms of Karate, Ninjitsu, Kenpo, Aikido, Escrima (which can be adapted in many ways) are ALL under "heavy competition" from a few grappling styles from brazil??

This is indeed true, hence half these guys all of a sudden remembering the grappling hidden in their forms.

Why? It can only be because grappling styles are becoming more POPULAR in the west and are also much easier to learn.

Wait, grappling is easier to learn? Who told you that? Grappling is easy to learn to play. Easy to actually use? Fuck no. In MMA, you've got guys beating your head in. Your shit can be negated with one punch to the face if you aren't careful. In a pure grappling scenario, you've got to watch for all types of bullshit. You may think you have a handle on the situation when someone pulls a flying gogoplata out of their ass. Thats a move that shouldn't even work.

Well, in that case, you should remember, or learn rather, this; a grappler has to get past your line of defense. He or she has to get in close enough to grapple and then has to take hold of you.

Erm, no. They don't walk up and then take hold of you. They come in such a manner as to do it in the same entry.

If said grappler were to encounter a person who would know what to do either in close combat, say, Wing Chun

Hilarious. WC vs BJJ? Are you kidding? Grappling arts have a proven record against close combat arts. Umm, muay thai?

or with a foolish charge of ody weight, say, Chin Na

Chin Na IS a grappling art.

Likewise if they just stuck to those comedically simple kickboxing methods.

You have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, you keep talking about kickboxing. Do you even know what kickboxing is? Kickboxing is simply full contact karate (or TKD or TSD) with western boxing to compliment the handwork. Its about 40 or 50 years old. Their weapons are their insteps and other parts of the foot, and their hands. Its a gloved art. Muay thai is NOT fucking kickboxing. Muay thai is a lot older and a lot more complete. Its known as the art or 8 limbs. It covers kicking, punching, knees and elbows, throwing and clinching, sometimes headbutts. There's nothing simple about it. I've seen so many methods from just the base styles of muay thai and affiliated styles that its crazy. You watch UFC, you see muay thai stripped down specifically to defend against BJJ. Without the threat of a full grappling system, muay thai is so much more. You see someone doing MMA, you won't see it. Watch them in the gym, you'll see them tip and rock. You'll see them fucking kicking metal poles, full power. You'll see the ler drit neck breaks, burst the tire, boar kicks, the boars horns, and all types of shit I'm sure you don't even know exists.

All it takes is one good block or block and hold, if the opponent knows what they're doing.

Uh huh, right. Thai boxers can't hold or get around a block? Thats why the round kick comes at three angles. Thats why the thai shield covers all of them. And HOLDS? You wanna talk about holds, I've seen guys that can take the clinch and just break your neck in one motion, so there's really no need to act like thai boxers can't fucking hold somebody.

Enjoy your exercise, I love that type of work, but don't talk ignorant about shit you've probably never even heard of.

Urban_Journalz
02-16-2007, 04:17 PM
Are you serious? LOL



First off, they're damn fast. The other guy isn't LETTING him get hit.




Thats because you don't know what you're looking at, as demonstrated by the next statement.



NO, NO, NO. I actually know muay thai. You don't just throw a round kick. Do you know how many their are? Inside kick, outside kick, bell kick, round kick, boar kick (from bando), burst the tire, and a ton of others. Thats just off the round house and as far as i felt like differentiating for this convo. Its not one kick, its a dozen that superficially resemble eachother.



Dude, no. First of all, watch Nog vs Fedor. Watch Nog vs Sapp. In both cases, Nog is beat to a bloody pulp, but doesn't go out. In the latter fight, he required two weeks hospitalization despite winning. Where do you get that one hit takes these guys out?



Erm, lol? A black belt and a white belt do the same moves. They might even look exactly the same. Whats the difference?



Crocop. Fedor. Case closed. Watch them fight. They're fast, they don't miss, they can put the strikes through the guard and especially in Crocops case, they have finishing power with one blow.



This is indeed true, hence half these guys all of a sudden remembering the grappling hidden in their forms.



Wait, grappling is easier to learn? Who told you that? Grappling is easy to learn to play. Easy to actually use? Fuck no. In MMA, you've got guys beating your head in. Your shit can be negated with one punch to the face if you aren't careful. In a pure grappling scenario, you've got to watch for all types of bullshit. You may think you have a handle on the situation when someone pulls a flying gogoplata out of their ass. Thats a move that shouldn't even work.



Erm, no. They don't walk up and then take hold of you. They come in such a manner as to do it in the same entry.



Hilarious. WC vs BJJ? Are you kidding? Grappling arts have a proven record against close combat arts. Umm, muay thai?



Chin Na IS a grappling art.



You have no idea what you're talking about. First of all, you keep talking about kickboxing. Do you even know what kickboxing is? Kickboxing is simply full contact karate (or TKD or TSD) with western boxing to compliment the handwork. Its about 40 or 50 years old. Their weapons are their insteps and other parts of the foot, and their hands. Its a gloved art. Muay thai is NOT fucking kickboxing. Muay thai is a lot older and a lot more complete. Its known as the art or 8 limbs. It covers kicking, punching, knees and elbows, throwing and clinching, sometimes headbutts. There's nothing simple about it. I've seen so many methods from just the base styles of muay thai and affiliated styles that its crazy. You watch UFC, you see muay thai stripped down specifically to defend against BJJ. Without the threat of a full grappling system, muay thai is so much more. You see someone doing MMA, you won't see it. Watch them in the gym, you'll see them tip and rock. You'll see them fucking kicking metal poles, full power. You'll see the ler drit neck breaks, burst the tire, boar kicks, the boars horns, and all types of shit I'm sure you don't even know exists.



Uh huh, right. Thai boxers can't hold or get around a block? Thats why the round kick comes at three angles. Thats why the thai shield covers all of them. And HOLDS? You wanna talk about holds, I've seen guys that can take the clinch and just break your neck in one motion, so there's really no need to act like thai boxers can't fucking hold somebody.

Enjoy your exercise, I love that type of work, but don't talk ignorant about shit you've probably never even heard of.

Another one with his panties in a twist I see. Either that or these competitions really get people wet. In any case, in case you forgot, Muay Thai is kickboxing, just another form with more variations and techniques.

If you read, I say they are fast, just not fast enough, or as fast as they could be.

The reason it's boring to watch, is because every fight is the same. Maybe you'll get a few more punches or a nice kick here and there, but it's nothing special to me.
I know there isn't just one kick in Muay Thai, that doesn't excuse the fact that what I see in those little competitions is the same thing time and again. Maybe you should go tell your precious fighters to change their attacks? So you know muay thai.

I've seen fights where they've been put on their ass with one clean hit to the jaw. Sorry I'm not a faomin' at the mouth fanatic about each and every fight like some of you, but since you watch it so faithfully, you've seen it yourself as well.

As for your, "erm. lol? a black belt and a white belt can do the same moves. they might even look exactly the same. what's the difference?" Obviously, with as much as you claim to know, you still have a few basics to research. If you don't know why an open hand is stronger and faster than a closed fist, then I see why you jump to such childish defences so easily. All you know, much like a lot of other people who claim to "know" things like this, is the movement and application. Period. So if you'd like to know the difference, I suggest you keep researching.

So you say Cropcop and Fedor each have the balance. Case closed? So, two fighters out of dozens makes up for the all-around lack of real technique for everyone else? Doesn't take much to please you does it?

The grappling hidden in their forms. Yeah, because grappling is hard to identify from everything else. As far as them "remembering" something, an eastern practitioner will use the entire system, not just a grapple, a punch or a kick. So there's nothing to "remember". None of the styles I mentioned have been forgotten or lost. The problem is most people are too lazy to learn the entire style and go for something quicker and easier to learn. Less mental and more physical, instead of a balance between the two.

Grappling IS easier to learn than most other styles because all it emphasizes is technique and application. Since most people have trouble walking, talking, thinking and chewing gum all at once, it might be seen as more difficult for the majority. As far as grappling situations being unpredictable, name one fighting scenario that isn't. Don't act like grappling is any more dangerous than any other fight. It depends on the intentions of the fighters, not the technique.

As for you trying to sum up EVERY grappler's style of attack, don't waste your time, because it looks really bad. No one (if they have sense), sticks to the regiment all the time. The minute you think you know someone's plan of attack just based on what style they use, is when you need to take up something a bit less dangerous, because you've just become a fool. Like I said, grapplers have to close in eventually in order to be effective. Especially if grappling is what they "specialize" in.

Yes, Wing Chun against BJJ. There's 3 kinds of lies. Lies, damn lies and statistics. If you believe a few stats, then I'm happy that you're happy. Personally, again, I believe it depends on the practioner, not the style. Seeing as Wing Chun has way more devastating techniques, in that it allows and encourages lightening fast punches, slaps, blocks and kicks, it requires a person who isn't afraid of other styles. Simple. Most grapplers have an edge because they know most martial arts competitors focus on punches and kicks and neglect things like holds and submissions for teh sake of a quick win.

Chin Na is a grappling art?? Well no shit sherlock!! I could've sworn the very title (SEIZE AND CONTROL) was just for window shoppers!! To write THIS one in crayon for YOU, if you have a person who isn't afraid of any other styles and knows Chin Na well, they'll have a greater advantage. Why? Because the very style is based on controlling your opponent's enegry, not just winning the fight. The yin will most certainly overpower the yang. Understand now? That's a clue as to why the ame punch thrown by different people can be devastating btw. :learning:

Like I said, Muay Thai IS kickboxing. It just has more bells and whistles than AMERICAN kickboxing. The fact of the matter is, all it emphasizes is external energy. Since most people are satisfied with it, I could care less. I'm explaining why I think it's a joke. Savvy?

I'd like to know where I said anything like, "Thai boxers can't hold somebody." So what if they can? It doesn't take a genius to figure out how to break someone's neck in one movement, nor is it very impressive. Well, not to me. You're only held by someone if you want to be. Like I said, all it takes is the right block. It doesn't matter if the kick taps you on the shoulder and says hello personally. The bottom line is, if you know what your opponent knows, plus take the time to study what they don't, you'll always beat them. No matter what.

"Don't talk ignorant about shit you've probably never heard of." This coming from a person who, when I said, "All most people concentrate on is external energy." replies, "Erm. lol? A black belt and a white belt do the same moves. They might even look the same. What's the difference?" Again, if you don't know that, you really should be ashamed of yourself. Especially since you like to come along tooting your "Dr. Know" horn around as if you were 4-1-1 with feet and all. The difference is one of the first rules of the martial arts. Since you'll obviously never be bothered with such meaningless efforts, I won't bother to answer your question because I know what it is and unlike you, I don't have to prove it to others. :W

For the record, I wasn't talking to you, so comin' in and wavin' your tampon around just because there's already someone who's decided to turn this from a convo into a wanna-be beefin' session, doesn't make it o.k. to be an instigator and a tag-along. It's childish and very sad to look at.

Os3y3ris
02-16-2007, 06:46 PM
In any case, in case you forgot, Muay Thai is kickboxing, just another form with more variations and techniques.

We really don't need to continue past this point. MUAY THAI IS NOT KICKBOXING. PERIOD. Do you know where kickboxing came from? Kickboxing came about in the 60s and 70s when American karateka wanted to practice their style with more contact. It has punches and kicks. Thats the origin of kickboxing. Now please explain, so we can proceed with this convo, what in the fuck that has to do with muay thai? Muay thai comes from THAILAND. It is over 400 years old. It uses punches, shin kicks, knees, elbows, grappling, throws, and headbutts. Thai boxing comes out of the thai culture, hence the wai khru, ram muay, going over the top rope, etc. I can just list thai facts all day long, stop me when it starts sounding like kickboxing. Next time I see a kickboxer throwing elbows in the clinch, I'll come back and apologize personally.

Urban_Journalz
02-16-2007, 09:04 PM
We really don't need to continue past this point. MUAY THAI IS NOT KICKBOXING. PERIOD. Do you know where kickboxing came from? Kickboxing came about in the 60s and 70s when American karateka wanted to practice their style with more contact. It has punches and kicks. Thats the origin of kickboxing. Now please explain, so we can proceed with this convo, what in the fuck that has to do with muay thai? Muay thai comes from THAILAND. It is over 400 years old. It uses punches, shin kicks, knees, elbows, grappling, throws, and headbutts. Thai boxing comes out of the thai culture, hence the wai khru, ram muay, going over the top rope, etc. I can just list thai facts all day long, stop me when it starts sounding like kickboxing. Next time I see a kickboxer throwing elbows in the clinch, I'll come back and apologize personally.

I was almost assured that there was a part that I was supposed to start to care at somewhere in there. Oh well. Be that as it may, what gave away the fact that Muay Thai was from Thailand?? Oh riiiiiiiiight, it speaks for itself doesn't it??

Really don't need to continue past that point because there's nowhere for you to go. Like I said, Muay Thai is kickboxing that goes past kicking more than other styles. Anyone who's not a little girl about it will tell you that Muay Thai is Thai kickboxing. So go yell about that. You can yell until you turn blue in the face because you can see elements of Muay Thai in american kickboxing. That is if you're willing to admit it. The sheer fact that Muay Thai is older than american kickboxing is enough for anyone with a shred of intelligence instead of just a big mouth and a childish attitude. All newer styles take something from the older styles that they're related to.

As for "proceeding in this convo", you weren't here to conversate, you only came in to add to the miniature ruckus. So, if anyone is holding up the convo, it's you. In case you feel like having a selective memory, I suggest you go back and re-read everything up until this point. The only reason you came here was to run your mouth and feed your lust for attention. Now, after you finish denying everything I just said, ask yourself if you're ready to even start a relevant convo in this thread, or wether you just want to keep bein' a side-seat driver.

Os3y3ris
02-16-2007, 09:13 PM
The idea that American kickboxing has taken elements from muay thai, which isn't quite true, is irrelevant. Thai boxing is not kickboxing. Stop talking out of your ass.

zeppelin2k
02-17-2007, 01:27 PM
The idea that American kickboxing has taken elements from muay thai, which isn't quite true, is irrelevant. Thai boxing is not kickboxing. Stop talking out of your ass.

you got it right osyris, he is definately doing a lot of talking out of his ass

the guy clearly doesnt know shit, I am not even going to bother commenting on half the dumb shit on his first encyclopedia of a post that was full of bullshit a metaphor couldnt even do it justice

clearly the guy has something against anything that isnt shaolin working out, which is just stupid in itself, and my points stand about you being stupid, and Osyris just added to that point

and among many things one of the stupider is how you are saying western bodybuilding only focuses on certain parts of the body, WTF ARE YOU TALKIING ABOUT? bodybuilding is ALL ABOUT SYMMETRY, how about you actually know something about something before you talk about it, you should just stop posting in this thread, you clearly dont know shit

and you calling UFC fighters so is another dumbass thing to say, dont you think that if your styles of fighting were so amazing that at least ONE of the champs would be using them? the people make their living in martial arts, if something was worth using, they would do it and learn it, their livelihood depends on it, there is a reason you dont see any shaolin only champs in the UFC, and you callling the UFC one step above WWE clearly shows you dont know anything about either

another thing, ever hear about olympic lifting? and saying that the western style isnt thinking about the long term is another completely stupid thing to say, most of the dudes are still 40-50 from abck in the day and still following their craft

but you know what, you keep thinking shaolin is the only way to go, the last few posts you made just show how much you know, so go ahead keep saying what you are saying, you are only making yourself look like an idiot

Urban_Journalz
02-17-2007, 02:04 PM
The idea that American kickboxing has taken elements from muay thai, which isn't quite true, is irrelevant. Thai boxing is not kickboxing. Stop talking out of your ass.

What I see from your beloved fighting shows has everything to do with what I'm talking about. Don't overestimate your importance. I could care less about you or your attitude. Savvy? We'll just have to agree to disagree now won't we?? At least by doing this you can go find someone else to have your hissy-fits with. Talkin' out of my ass? Have you found out what the difference is between internal and external training is yet? Or are you still laughing at something that you yourself have no idea about?

the silencer
02-17-2007, 02:33 PM
im starting to disslike the KTL section..

these stupid arguments where u guys dissect somebodys post into a bunch of quotes and then critique each one are getting old...lets try to cut the shit guys

Urban_Journalz
02-17-2007, 02:39 PM
you got it right osyris, he is definately doing a lot of talking out of his ass

the guy clearly doesnt know shit, I am not even going to bother commenting on half the dumb shit on his first encyclopedia of a post that was full of bullshit a metaphor couldnt even do it justice

clearly the guy has something against anything that isnt shaolin working out, which is just stupid in itself, and my points stand about you being stupid, and Osyris just added to that point

and among many things one of the stupider is how you are saying western bodybuilding only focuses on certain parts of the body, WTF ARE YOU TALKIING ABOUT? bodybuilding is ALL ABOUT SYMMETRY, how about you actually know something about something before you talk about it, you should just stop posting in this thread, you clearly dont know shit

and you calling UFC fighters so is another dumbass thing to say, dont you think that if your styles of fighting were so amazing that at least ONE of the champs would be using them? the people make their living in martial arts, if something was worth using, they would do it and learn it, their livelihood depends on it, there is a reason you dont see any shaolin only champs in the UFC, and you callling the UFC one step above WWE clearly shows you dont know anything about either

another thing, ever hear about olympic lifting? and saying that the western style isnt thinking about the long term is another completely stupid thing to say, most of the dudes are still 40-50 from abck in the day and still following their craft

but you know what, you keep thinking shaolin is the only way to go, the last few posts you made just show how much you know, so go ahead keep saying what you are saying, you are only making yourself look like an idiot

You're not going to bother to comment on my post because you're incapable. Simple as that. You see your flaws and can't combat them. You're only agreein' with this guy because he saved you the trouble of having to respond to what I said to you and probably thankin' him for jumpin' to your defense. Have fun children. :b

I said EASTERN workouts are better. If you somewhere in your tiny mind you think that EASTERN automatically means SHAOLIN, again, have fun children.

Yes, western bodybuilding is about symmetry, but no one for the most part follows those rules. It's either some of the upper body, or some of the lower body. Never the whole body and when it is the whole body, they don't stick to it long enough. What I'm talking about, you poor deluded creature, is the entire body from the inside out. Get it?? There isn't a gym in the west that will teach you how to cleanse your bloodstream and bone marrow, nor one that will teach you how to strengthen your vital organs. I hope that's clear enough even for the likes of you two. I should just stop posting in this thread? You should learn that talking trash from behind a screen doesn't make you He-Man and to anyone with good sense, it makes you look like a childish coward. Both of you actually.

So the styles I talk about aren't any good JUST because your precious UFC people don't use them. That makes a lot of sense in YOUR mind, such as it is, but not mine. They aren't used in that realm because they're a lot more dangerous if applied by someone who knows how to train their bodies. Since you seem to be one of the many people who will follow someone else's method just because of who they are, have fun. :b Since you also seem to have a severely tainted view of the martial arts, EVERYTHING IS WORTH USING. But then again, if your idol doesn't use it, niether will you.

Yes, there's a reason no one uses any Shaolin methods in the UFC, and that reason is that those fighters don't want to go through the training required that makes Shaolin styles so dangerous. Plus, Shaolin fighting styles aren't for competitions like that. You'd need a lot more padding and stricter rules. Or don't you know that either?? It would be a lot more interesting if they at least did a few of the workouts because they'd get much more benefit from them than conventional methods, but it's probably best that they don't. You're saying that Shaolin methods are useless in such areas, which is fine. Borderline doing what you told me not to do and that's talkin' out of your ass and speakin' about things you have no clue about, but who's gonna know right?

The UFC IS one step above the WWE, because the combat is actually real here. That's the one step above. Live with it.

Of course I've heard about olympic lifting. What's your point? What's so great about olympic lifting? I notice that you both very kindly avoided what I said about the fact that all of these so-called "strongmen", if given the exact same amount of weight, only attached to their bodies evenly, would be practically helpless if told to walk or run uphill. But who's gonna know right?

In me saying that western methods were short term, since you clearly mis-understood, was to say that these forms of exercise age the body rapidly. Understand? So they're still followin' their craft, good for them. Maybe if I was talking about that, it would matter.

As far as lookin' like an idiot, I'm still waiting for you to respond to the last paragraph in my first response to you zepp. 9 times out of 10 you'll dream up some half-hearted excuse for not doing so though.

I said Shaolin was the best way for me. It's you two that got all pissy about it and truth be told, if you're as easily pissed off in real life as you are on here, you know way less about martial arts than you want to believe. But then, all you focus on is technique and application, so that's no surprise that you'd be more likely to resort to name callin' and other childish methods as not answering someone's reply while still trying to insult it. But who's gonna know, right?

Os3y3ris
02-17-2007, 04:09 PM
What I see from your beloved fighting shows has everything to do with what I'm talking about.

No, it really doens't. Those shows showcase MMA, which is a different animal from the component arts. The styles are under extreme pressure as they're limited by having to defend againt their counterparts.

Have you found out what the difference is between internal and external training is yet?

The difference has to do with methods of power generation. I know this. The power generation methods change in practitioners of all styles as they reach an expert level. When you see thai fighters kicking full iron posts full power with no damage to the shin, you'll understand that.

Or are you still laughing at something that you yourself have no idea about?

Where do you see me laughing? Your asinine statements are in no fucking way related to IMA or CMA in general. Sure the shit works. I even practice it from time to time. You think I only fuck with UFC shit, but I do so much shit, including kung fu styles like mantis, chi kung and wing chun, though those aren't my areas of expertise. I also do taekwondo, classical muay thai and bando, so to claim I'm a UFC nutrider is retarded. I was sincere when I said to enjoy your shaolin. I know similar exercises work, because I've fucking done them, dumbass.

Don't have the audacity to claim that I'm the one issuing insults. You're the one who called muay thai a simplistic kickboxing method. You're the one who's out here claiming UFC fighters have weak shins. You're the one telling A FUCKING THAI BOXER what muay thai is. So really, look at your own statements.

zeppelin2k
02-17-2007, 04:36 PM
You're not going to bother to comment on my post because you're incapable. Simple as that. You see your flaws and can't combat them. You're only agreein' with this guy because he saved you the trouble of having to respond to what I said to you and probably thankin' him for jumpin' to your defense. Have fun children. :b

I said EASTERN workouts are better. If you somewhere in your tiny mind you think that EASTERN automatically means SHAOLIN, again, have fun children.

Yes, western bodybuilding is about symmetry, but no one for the most part follows those rules. It's either some of the upper body, or some of the lower body. Never the whole body and when it is the whole body, they don't stick to it long enough. What I'm talking about, you poor deluded creature, is the entire body from the inside out. Get it?? There isn't a gym in the west that will teach you how to cleanse your bloodstream and bone marrow, nor one that will teach you how to strengthen your vital organs. I hope that's clear enough even for the likes of you two. I should just stop posting in this thread? You should learn that talking trash from behind a screen doesn't make you He-Man and to anyone with good sense, it makes you look like a childish coward. Both of you actually.

So the styles I talk about aren't any good JUST because your precious UFC people don't use them. That makes a lot of sense in YOUR mind, such as it is, but not mine. They aren't used in that realm because they're a lot more dangerous if applied by someone who knows how to train their bodies. Since you seem to be one of the many people who will follow someone else's method just because of who they are, have fun. :b Since you also seem to have a severely tainted view of the martial arts, EVERYTHING IS WORTH USING. But then again, if your idol doesn't use it, niether will you.

Yes, there's a reason no one uses any Shaolin methods in the UFC, and that reason is that those fighters don't want to go through the training required that makes Shaolin styles so dangerous. Plus, Shaolin fighting styles aren't for competitions like that. You'd need a lot more padding and stricter rules. Or don't you know that either?? It would be a lot more interesting if they at least did a few of the workouts because they'd get much more benefit from them than conventional methods, but it's probably best that they don't. You're saying that Shaolin methods are useless in such areas, which is fine. Borderline doing what you told me not to do and that's talkin' out of your ass and speakin' about things you have no clue about, but who's gonna know right?

The UFC IS one step above the WWE, because the combat is actually real here. That's the one step above. Live with it.

Of course I've heard about olympic lifting. What's your point? What's so great about olympic lifting? I notice that you both very kindly avoided what I said about the fact that all of these so-called "strongmen", if given the exact same amount of weight, only attached to their bodies evenly, would be practically helpless if told to walk or run uphill. But who's gonna know right?

In me saying that western methods were short term, since you clearly mis-understood, was to say that these forms of exercise age the body rapidly. Understand? So they're still followin' their craft, good for them. Maybe if I was talking about that, it would matter.

As far as lookin' like an idiot, I'm still waiting for you to respond to the last paragraph in my first response to you zepp. 9 times out of 10 you'll dream up some half-hearted excuse for not doing so though.

I said Shaolin was the best way for me. It's you two that got all pissy about it and truth be told, if you're as easily pissed off in real life as you are on here, you know way less about martial arts than you want to believe. But then, all you focus on is technique and application, so that's no surprise that you'd be more likely to resort to name callin' and other childish methods as not answering someone's reply while still trying to insult it. But who's gonna know, right?


there you go again talking stupid shit

you clearly dont know wtf you are talking about thats why I am not going to comment on your bullshit post

after I read that you said Western style of weightlifting only had to do with focusing on a few parts of the body, I stopped reading, bc clearly you have no clue wut the fuck western strength training even is

and clearly you are saying more stupid shit again, honestly just drop it, just admit you didnt know what you were talking about or keep looking like a dumbass

probably better to keep making yourself look stupid, its probably pretty entertaining to some people to see you talking out your ass

but nice try and trying to recover yourself from looking like an idiot, but didnt work, go find out about shit before you speak on it

http://www.kif.pl/www/components/com_simpleboard/uploaded/images/sn121.jpg

I am sure you probably think serge nubret (who was 40 when this picture was taken and steroid-free) was weak and only worked out his chest bc he trained western style

dumbass

Urban_Journalz
02-17-2007, 05:52 PM
No, it really doens't. Those shows showcase MMA, which is a different animal from the component arts. The styles are under extreme pressure as they're limited by having to defend againt their counterparts.



The difference has to do with methods of power generation. I know this. The power generation methods change in practitioners of all styles as they reach an expert level. When you see thai fighters kicking full iron posts full power with no damage to the shin, you'll understand that.



Where do you see me laughing? Your asinine statements are in no fucking way related to IMA or CMA in general. Sure the shit works. I even practice it from time to time. You think I only fuck with UFC shit, but I do so much shit, including kung fu styles like mantis, chi kung and wing chun, though those aren't my areas of expertise. I also do taekwondo, classical muay thai and bando, so to claim I'm a UFC nutrider is retarded. I was sincere when I said to enjoy your shaolin. I know similar exercises work, because I've fucking done them, dumbass.

Don't have the audacity to claim that I'm the one issuing insults. You're the one who called muay thai a simplistic kickboxing method. You're the one who's out here claiming UFC fighters have weak shins. You're the one telling A FUCKING THAI BOXER what muay thai is. So really, look at your own statements.

there you go again talking stupid shit

you clearly dont know wtf you are talking about thats why I am not going to comment on your bullshit post

after I read that you said Western style of weightlifting only had to do with focusing on a few parts of the body, I stopped reading, bc clearly you have no clue wut the fuck western strength training even is

and clearly you are saying more stupid shit again, honestly just drop it, just admit you didnt know what you were talking about or keep looking like a dumbass

probably better to keep making yourself look stupid, its probably pretty entertaining to some people to see you talking out your ass

but nice try and trying to recover yourself from looking like an idiot, but didnt work, go find out about shit before you speak on it

http://www.kif.pl/www/components/com_simpleboard/uploaded/images/sn121.jpg

I am sure you probably think serge nubret (who was 40 when this picture was taken and steroid-free) was weak and only worked out his chest bc he trained western style

dumbass

Use what language you will, you'll never tell anything except what you are.

Since all you two seem to be able to do is moan bitch and complain, I'll have to just ignore you and steal your thunder for now. Can't say I didn't see it comin' from way back, especially in the case of osyris, so it's good to find out you're right about someone's character, or lack thereof. Like I said, you can believe anything that makes you happy. I'm explaining why I think it's a joke. Am I telling any of you brats to leave your precious methods? If so, do what you do best, look for it, quote it, and post it. If not, stop acting like babies and be happy with what you have and don't start wavin' your diapers around because I like a different dish than you do.

Again, if you're as easily pissed off in real life as you are on here, if you're as childish and effortlessly brought out of character as you are on here, then what you say makes no difference. You could know everything these techniques, but it'll only make you look good online. All it would take is someone who has more patience than you to talk a bit of shit to you to get you to jump. All of what you know at that point will be null and void because you don't have proper character.

Also, the difference between internal and external has to do with power generation? No. It doesn't. If it did, you would've explained your point a bit further because you can't help but do so. Those thai boxers go through physical conditioning of thier elbows and shins. The furthest they go is breath control when striking. That's why they can cause the amount of damage to poles. Plus, don't pretend like their legs don't get messed up eventually, because they do. I've seen them.

BTW, zepp, all you did with postin' that pic was make yourself look like a flaming homosexual. Since I know your intention was a childish attempt to make me angry, I'll have to give you an "A" for effort. Only next time, try to use a method that would piss ME off instead of one that would piss YOU off. Savvy?

Osyris says he knows similar exercises work because he's done them. Not saying which ones he's done, or for how long he's done them. But who's keepin' count, right?

Zepp says he didn't read the entire post, but can somehow find it in his tiny mind to approach what he hasn't fully observed. I can only wonder if that's how he takes every path of life.:W

Be that as it may, children, since you're incapable of speaking like grown men, if you are men, when something rubs your precious furs in the wrong direction, have to resort to name calling and the like, it is best that this is left alone because I don't suffer fools.

Don't hurt eachother lovebirds.
:W

Os3y3ris
02-17-2007, 06:44 PM
You're an idiot. You talk all this shit, but when all I do is refute your bullshit claims, like thai being kickboxing, you turn around and try to take the high ground. Thats bullshit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Also, you're FACTUALLY wrong. Its not even a matter of opinion. Now, so far as real life is concerned, you got a lot of audacity speaking on where I am in real life, from a martial arts perspective, when you don't have a clue what I'm about, where I am, or where I'm going. Just because I call your lying ass a liar hardly reflects on my character in any negative light. Not only do I hold respect everywhere I go, but my character and skill is high enough that I don't even have to ask for what I need. I look a little sloppy, you think I pay someone's hourly rate to fix me up? Fuck no. My dedication, service and performance for BOTH teams I fuck with is that high. Now, I think you're an idiot. Thats because of all the falsifiable things that come out of your mouth, the unwarranted slander of fighters and styles and the hypocritical stance you've taken. However, I don't presume to know you, and therefore will NOT impugne your real life character.

Urban_Journalz
02-17-2007, 07:41 PM
You're an idiot. You talk all this shit, but when all I do is refute your bullshit claims, like thai being kickboxing, you turn around and try to take the high ground. Thats bullshit. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Also, you're FACTUALLY wrong. Its not even a matter of opinion. Now, so far as real life is concerned, you got a lot of audacity speaking on where I am in real life, from a martial arts perspective, when you don't have a clue what I'm about, where I am, or where I'm going. Just because I call your lying ass a liar hardly reflects on my character in any negative light. Not only do I hold respect everywhere I go, but my character and skill is high enough that I don't even have to ask for what I need. I look a little sloppy, you think I pay someone's hourly rate to fix me up? Fuck no. My dedication, service and performance for BOTH teams I fuck with is that high. Now, I think you're an idiot. Thats because of all the falsifiable things that come out of your mouth, the unwarranted slander of fighters and styles and the hypocritical stance you've taken. However, I don't presume to know you, and therefore will NOT impugne your real life character.

I don't have to know you. You show who you are just by typing. Your character's been shown already so just work on it because denial is even uglier. Have fun rippin' up your shins. Btw, I don't think there would've been a movie named "Kickboxer" with Muay Thai being the very essence of the movie without Muay Thai being a form of kickboxing. So you can go believe what you like because either way I don't care. Maybe you should learn how too.:learning:

zeppelin2k
02-18-2007, 10:04 AM
hey man if you feel your dick getting hard looking at the pic I posted that makes you the gay homophobe, I dont get hard looking at men, thats why I posted the pic to show how stupid you are, saying western method of bodybuilding dont make you strong or arent good long-term

then in your childish response all you could say is exactly what I said to you in different words, so give yourself an "A" for talking out of your ass lol

clearly you know you are wrong thats why all you can do is try and call me gay bc I posted a pic that just owned you and I think even made you a little hard ;) bc you got all defensive

but whatever you go to the gym and lift your 15 pound weights, while people who know their shit are one-hand snatching 150 pounds

zeppelin2k
02-18-2007, 10:19 AM
oh and here, since you are gay and cant look at a guy without squirting

here is a girl that you will never be stronger than

http://www.jillmills.com/gallery/training/staticshrugs.jpg
http://www.jillmills.com/gallery/training/benchsquat.jpg
http://www.jillmills.com/gallery/training/asstofloor.jpg
lol owned again

but yeah they can't run with the weight

http://www.jillmills.com/gallery/training/jillfarmers.jpg

hahaha

Urban_Journalz
02-18-2007, 01:26 PM
hey man if you feel your dick getting hard looking at the pic I posted that makes you the gay homophobe, I dont get hard looking at men, thats why I posted the pic to show how stupid you are, saying western method of bodybuilding dont make you strong or arent good long-term

then in your childish response all you could say is exactly what I said to you in different words, so give yourself an "A" for talking out of your ass lol

clearly you know you are wrong thats why all you can do is try and call me gay bc I posted a pic that just owned you and I think even made you a little hard ;) bc you got all defensive

but whatever you go to the gym and lift your 15 pound weights, while people who know their shit are one-hand snatching 150 pounds

Another sad example of someone who will take any kind of attention given to them and run with it, negative or positive, because they crave it so. Sad.

Anyway, since I'm generous, I have to remember not to pass judgement. I have enough to deal with without worrying over the fact that God has not seen fit to distribute the gift of intelligence evenly. That being said, the long-term effects I'm talking about, you poor deluded creature, are the AGING OF THE BODY TOO RAPIDLY. Savvy? Now, since somewhere in your tiny mind you think that rippling muscles mean a healthy body inside and out, I have no choice but to let sleeping dogs lie, because in truth, your posting that pic makes you look stupid because if you knew what I was talking about, you wouldn't have posted it. You'll never own up to that though.

Also, assuming what kind of weight lifting I do is stupid. Very stupid. If you actually knew what my kind of weightlifting was, instead of just guessing, you'd see how stupid you sound. But of course, your cop out is, "I don't care what kind of weightlifting you do. If it was worth anything, don't you think so-and-so would use it??" Moreso in the fact that you only did it to arouse anger out of me and get me to stoop to you and that other cat, what's his name's level. Again, next time you want to piss someone off, choose a method that will piss THEM off instead of one that would piss YOU off. Savvy?

Most of those people who "know their shit", wind up snatchin' their backs out of place or having a severe case of arthritis, among other problems, in the future. Plus, they'll never be able to do anything truly amazing to people who aren't impressed by such common feats as simply lifting something. They won't be able to smash a pile of bricks with an open palm in one stroke, nor will they be able to do a handstand on two fingers. Why? External training only. See if you can wrap your tiny mind around that for at least a minute ay?

Since the topic of this thread was originally about Shaolin methods to begin with, I'd say I have more of a right to be here than you. Don't get all pissy, again, it was you wo lovebirds who decided to say, "just stop posting" and the like, so since you want to play that card, until and UNLESS you have something to say about the topic at hand, you will henceforth be ignored by me. Clearly the only reason you came in was because you found something you had a pinch of knowledge about and all you wanted to do was argue. I hope your itch has been scratched. Considering the sources, it should be interesting ignoring you, due to the fact that you're entirely too simple not to keep this up, so it'll be nice to see how long you try to get my attention back. Seeing as ^^that card^^(the 'craving for attention' card, for those of you less inclined to think) has already been pulled, that only leaves you with one last option, that being, a few more insults and saying that YOU have no more time for this nonsense and YOU'RE gonna ignore me. I mean, that's the way you operate yes? So, since I'm generous, I'll give you third option, why don't you go and start a thread regarding the methods that you favor. Think about it, you can take all the cheap shots at me that I know you're just droolin' to take. ^O^

Urban_Journalz
02-18-2007, 01:34 PM
lol owned again



hahaha

Again, sad that you have to laugh at your own "jokes". :yessad:

Plus, you go through the extra effort to waste more time and energy on someone you can't stand. Why? Your desperate need for attention. Again, negative or positive, as long as someone is actually talking to you, you feel alive. :mmmyah:

Owned? Seems like you're owned by your own weaknesses kid. So much so that your very senses are unaware of their imprisonment.:yessad:

No matter.

Eventus Stultorum Magister

zeppelin2k
02-18-2007, 01:44 PM
lol
dude you're just funny man

you remind me of those emo kids

you write these huge essays bc you know you're wrong
keep it up though

Urban_Journalz
02-18-2007, 04:59 PM
Since the topic of this thread was originally about Shaolin methods to begin with, I'd say I have more of a right to be here than you. Don't get all pissy, again, it was you wo lovebirds who decided to say, "just stop posting" and the like, so since you want to play that card, until and UNLESS you have something to say about the topic at hand, you will henceforth be ignored by me. Considering the sources, it should be interesting ignoring you, due to the fact that you're entirely too simple not to keep this up, so it'll be nice to see how long you try to get my attention back.


lol
dude you're just funny man

you remind me of those emo kids

you write these huge essays bc you know you're wrong
keep it up though

:clap: One time for the people kind enough to prove your point against them for you. :picture:

Anyway, back to the thread, Poetik, don't forget also, that the "28 Days" mentioned in that book is if you were to do the exercises for 15 minutes a day. If I were you, I'd boost it up to half an hour a day for faster results.

JackOfHearts
02-18-2007, 07:07 PM
cheers pal, if i choose to get the workout nd shit il keep that in mind

Os3y3ris
02-18-2007, 07:43 PM
Btw, I don't think there would've been a movie named "Kickboxer" with Muay Thai being the very essence of the movie without Muay Thai being a form of kickboxing.

So its kinda like how grand magic stance is a form of kung fu?

Urban_Journalz
02-19-2007, 11:23 AM
cheers pal, if i choose to get the workout nd shit il keep that in mind

No doubt bro.

Peace

GAYLORD
02-21-2007, 04:27 PM
Hi Guys!

@ Shropster_Slasher: Are You doing Shaolin kinda workout? Or Eastern Workout - and what specifically?

Sholin Kung Fu. Hm. What about Wing Chun (Wing Tsun, Ving Tsun, Ving Tzun etc)? It is completely different and acoording to the legend developed to be superior to Shaolin. But thatīs just a sidekick.

What makes me doubt Shaolin is this: Do they have fighters? I mean not "sportcompetion"-wise, just monks who fight? As I see they donīt have the necessity to fight and maybe (I donīt know but you?) they donīt try to develop Shaolin no more.

Maybe Grappling isnīt entirely a "threat" (totally wrong expression) to Shaolin, they could (?!) adapt to it, maybe learn from it. But they donīt I suppose.

@the workout aspect: isometrics. Well, they do train a lot isometric. This method works very well to build muscles for strength as well as some endurance. Ok. Letīs get away from fighting please for one moment, ok?

Olympic Shotputting: these guys have to have explosive strength. They train with benchpress (amongst other methods of course). The reason is that the muscles get used to the direction and a similar movement. I think this is very important.

Iīm not an expert but I do have some knowledge and I think Iīm quite open-minded. I have seen the Shaolin monks at their show live in 95 - it was amazing! Like throwing a needle through a window glass.

But I think that Shaolin (not Kung Fu in general) donīt focus on being the most deadliest (sounds like from a movie) or effective martial art.

I agree that competition fighting like UFC and PRIDE (is better than the ufc imo) require different approach: tactic, rules etc ---> training.

But to completely say they suck?! As I see it they are damn good. damn good. To me they are masters as well.

I also wonder on how the Shaolin workout got developed. The legend says that a hindu monk taught the first movements (but it must have been more like yoga). Did they really imitate animals? Was it trial and error?

Urban_Journalz
02-24-2007, 02:13 AM
Hi Guys!

@ Shropster_Slasher: Are You doing Shaolin kinda workout? Or Eastern Workout - and what specifically?

Sholin Kung Fu. Hm. What about Wing Chun (Wing Tsun, Ving Tsun, Ving Tzun etc)? It is completely different and acoording to the legend developed to be superior to Shaolin. But thatīs just a sidekick.

What makes me doubt Shaolin is this: Do they have fighters? I mean not "sportcompetion"-wise, just monks who fight? As I see they donīt have the necessity to fight and maybe (I donīt know but you?) they donīt try to develop Shaolin no more.

Maybe Grappling isnīt entirely a "threat" (totally wrong expression) to Shaolin, they could (?!) adapt to it, maybe learn from it. But they donīt I suppose.

@the workout aspect: isometrics. Well, they do train a lot isometric. This method works very well to build muscles for strength as well as some endurance. Ok. Letīs get away from fighting please for one moment, ok?

Olympic Shotputting: these guys have to have explosive strength. They train with benchpress (amongst other methods of course). The reason is that the muscles get used to the direction and a similar movement. I think this is very important.

Iīm not an expert but I do have some knowledge and I think Iīm quite open-minded. I have seen the Shaolin monks at their show live in 95 - it was amazing! Like throwing a needle through a window glass.

But I think that Shaolin (not Kung Fu in general) donīt focus on being the most deadliest (sounds like from a movie) or effective martial art.

I agree that competition fighting like UFC and PRIDE (is better than the ufc imo) require different approach: tactic, rules etc ---> training.

But to completely say they suck?! As I see it they are damn good. damn good. To me they are masters as well.

I also wonder on how the Shaolin workout got developed. The legend says that a hindu monk taught the first movements (but it must have been more like yoga). Did they really imitate animals? Was it trial and error?

I do both Shaolin and Wu-Tang exercises. The difference being, Shaolin exercises emphasize hard methods, or tense muscle training and Wu-Tang emphasizes soft, or relaxed muscle training. This can be seen in the difference between Tiger Claw and Tai Chi Chuan. Specifically, I go from the inside out. Or, from Wu-Tang to Shaolin, respectively, because I believe that starting with blood, bone marrow, ligaments and vital organs, then going to biceps, triceps, abdomen, etc, is the most effective and complete method of exercise for one who wishes for "Total Body Fitness".
Since Wu-Tang Kung-Fu has it's roots in Shaolin Kung-Fu, I'm trying to reach the same mountain peak, just by a different path.

Wing Chun is a Shaolin hybrid style and has many elements to it. Drunken Fist, Windy Palm and Water Boxing can be easily seen when it's performed. Not really set forth to match or out-do the Shaolin arts as a whole, because there are too many different styles between Northern and Southern Shaolin for one lone style to face, but more a way of giving those who want to learn a bit more quickly, a nice well-rounded style that is just as dangerous and effective as most well-known Shaolin styles.

The Shaolin Temple started to have fighters around the beginning of the Ch'ing Dynasty. That's when the Manchus started to invade China. During this time, many common-folk couldn't stand the invaders and would go to Shaolin for training. When they were caught by the Manchus, and asked where they were from and who taught them to fight, they would all claim Shaolin heritage. The monks were always peaceful and never bothered anyone. When the Manchus began attacking the temples regularly, an order was unanimously passed to give ranks to the temple's inhabitants. Warrior Monks and Protection Monks were thus born. Sifu Shi Yan Ming, the writer of the book, "Shaolin 28 Days Workout" is himself a Warrior Monk. His purpose being the protection of his brother monks, the students, preists and the very temple itself. By and large, The Shaolin Monks never had a reason to fight, even when the Manchus first attacked them, but it was from that experience that they found it was better to be safe than sorry. The same principle they use for the martial arts. It's main purpose is for exercise and health. Only as a last resort will someone well-versed in the arts use them because of their uncommonly fatal capabilites. As far as the development of Shaolin Kung-Fu, it's the most complete system of martial arts in the world and still holds the title as Number 1 in the world. Not to say that it needs no further cultivation or it's impossible to do so, but right now, the monks are focusing on telling people all of their long hidden training methods. This is most important, because without the knowledge of how to build the body properly to make the styles properly effective, the knowledge will die with them and naturally they don't want that.

As far as grappling styles, the public generally is only familiar with a few aspects of Shaolin martial arts. Everything is commercialized these days, so all we really know is the animal styles, Drunken Fist, Buddah Palm and a few others. Ground fighting is actually one of the foundations of Shaolin martial arts. Trust me, these cats leave no stone unturned. Think about it, these are the same ones who perfected Iron Body training. The Plum Flower post training, where you have to stand on high stilts to perfect your balance and then start fighting on those same stilts. The reason why there are so many styles in Shaolin martial arts and variations of those styles, is because they wanted to be able to match any style that they came across.

True, shotputters have a great amount of strength. I'm saying that it's healthier for the person if they blend all into one in this order. Wai Dan Chi (physical energy building through still and moving stances), Nei Dan Chi (mental energy building through meditation), isometrics, THEN weights. Most people just do weights, which seems like it adds a lot of energy and causes great strain to the vital organs, it also depletes the energy at the same time, and aging the body prematurely. Through the method stated above, one could have vast amounts of energy already stored before they even touch the weights, enabling them to workout longer and more efficiantly than ever before.

The purpose of Shaolin martial arts is health and longevity. Of course, if attacked, the pratitioner of such a style would be most deadly. You're right though, the purpose of these arts isn't to be deadly or the most deadly. It just happens to be just that though. It's not just the styles, but the way the body is trained, that makes them so dangerous. No other discipline in the world has training methods like The Shaolin Temple. Only recently were these training secrets released to the public. A lot of what we've seen in the movies is explained in these books, step by step. Most of what looked like magic or even an impossiblilty, is actually proper weight training.

I say the UFC sucks for two reasons, first, when I hear "martial arts", I look for style, grace and beauty. All I see is a street brawl in most of those matches and it bores me. They may be masters in their own right, but the people that I compare them to and the standards that I personally am trying to achieve, are far above them.

Secondly, I don't see any variation in technique. Nothing I've seen, with the exception of a few nice K.O.'s has made me smile and say, "Oh s**t. That was nice." A true test of hand to hand combat, I don't see it. However, this is my opinion. Not yours.
I don't say they completely suck, because you can use these techniques in actual combat. I'm pointing out what I don't like about it.

The Shaolin workout was first developed by an Indian Monk named Ta Mo or Bodiharma in Sanskrit. The first thing he taught the monks was internal exercises, to get their blood, bone marrow and vital organs prepared for the more advanced techniques. All of what we see now was taken from his building blocks as time passed and his students began to adopt more methods to create a complete system of exercise and self-defense. I'm quite sure there was trial and error, but you have to remember that these people weren't just monks and fighters, they were well-versed in medicine and human anatomy as well.

Yes, they really did imitate animals. More than the movement, the spirit of the animal was the key to the styles success. If you look at Crane style, it's a defensive/offensive style and it's graceful and soft. You'll never see a crane attacking anything for the sake of attacking. Even in defending, cranes tend to avoid the opponent as it strikes. Tiger style is the exact opposite. Hard, fierce and quite the offensive style, or a lot easier to attack with than that of the crane. We all know the characteristics of the tiger. A beautiful creature that you seriously don't want to get close to. Again, the style is useless without proper bodily training, as most schools neglect these days.

GAYLORD
02-27-2007, 08:24 AM
I do both Shaolin and Wu-Tang exercises. The difference being, Shaolin exercises emphasize hard methods, or tense muscle training and Wu-Tang emphasizes soft, or relaxed muscle training. This can be seen in the difference between Tiger Claw and Tai Chi Chuan. Specifically, I go from the inside out. Or, from Wu-Tang to Shaolin, respectively, because I believe that starting with blood, bone marrow, ligaments and vital organs, then going to biceps, triceps, abdomen, etc, is the most effective and complete method of exercise for one who wishes for "Total Body Fitness".
Since Wu-Tang Kung-Fu has it's roots in Shaolin Kung-Fu, I'm trying to reach the same mountain peak, just by a different path.

sounds good. for how long youīve been doing this now?

Wing Chun is a Shaolin hybrid style and has many elements to it. Drunken Fist, Windy Palm and Water Boxing can be easily seen when it's performed. Not really set forth to match or out-do the Shaolin arts as a whole, because there are too many different styles between Northern and Southern Shaolin for one lone style to face, but more a way of giving those who want to learn a bit more quickly, a nice well-rounded style that is just as dangerous and effective as most well-known Shaolin styles.

hmm. not true. Win Chun is not a hybrid style. You may see similarities but the concept is completely different - minimalistic. it got his own things like chi-sao.

Sifu Shi Yan Ming, the writer of the book, "Shaolin 28 Days Workout" is himself a Warrior Monk. His purpose being the protection of his brother monks, the students, preists and the very temple itself.

come on! he can protect nobody. even with shaolin skills you cant fight bullets!

By and large, The Shaolin Monks never had a reason to fight, even when the Manchus first attacked them, but it was from that experience that they found it was better to be safe than sorry.
Shaolin were nearly wiped out....

As far as the development of Shaolin Kung-Fu, it's the most complete system of martial arts in the world and still holds the title as Number 1 in the world.
when did shaolin kung-fu get that title?! you say itīs supreme to all other styles? how can you say that? how many martial arts did you practice? did you ever cross-train? honestly do that! itīs two individuals fighting. always. not styles.

As far as grappling styles, the public generally is only familiar with a few aspects of Shaolin martial arts. Everything is commercialized these days, so all we really know is the animal styles, Drunken Fist, Buddah Palm and a few others. Ground fighting is actually one of the foundations of Shaolin martial arts. Trust me, these cats leave no stone unturned. Think about it, these are the same ones who perfected Iron Body training. The Plum Flower post training, where you have to stand on high stilts to perfect your balance and then start fighting on those same stilts. The reason why there are so many styles in Shaolin martial arts and variations of those styles, is because they wanted to be able to match any style that they came across.

ok. i didnt know that they have ground fighting as well. i thought maybe there was no need for that.

True, shotputters have a great amount of strength. I'm saying that it's healthier for the person if they blend all into one in this order. Wai Dan Chi (physical energy building through still and moving stances), Nei Dan Chi (mental energy building through meditation), isometrics, THEN weights. Most people just do weights, which seems like it adds a lot of energy and causes great strain to the vital organs, it also depletes the energy at the same time, and aging the body prematurely. Through the method stated above, one could have vast amounts of energy already stored before they even touch the weights, enabling them to workout longer and more efficiantly than ever before.
ok i cant judge on that as long as i havent read the book. got me really curious. as for the shotputters i wanted to emphasize that their weightexercise is specific to their movement. i also did gymnastics when i was young and i can confirm that bodyweight exercises (mostly isometric) build enromous strenght for the whole body. or in capoeira (which i am practicing now).


The purpose of Shaolin martial arts is health and longevity. Of course, if attacked, the pratitioner of such a style would be most deadly. You're right though, the purpose of these arts isn't to be deadly or the most deadly. It just happens to be just that though. It's not just the styles, but the way the body is trained, that makes them so dangerous. No other discipline in the world has training methods like The Shaolin Temple. Only recently were these training secrets released to the public. A lot of what we've seen in the movies is explained in these books, step by step. Most of what looked like magic or even an impossiblilty, is actually proper weight training.
interesting. i always wanted how much of the movie mistery is true.

I say the UFC sucks for two reasons, first, when I hear "martial arts", I look for style, grace and beauty. All I see is a street brawl in most of those matches and it bores me. They may be masters in their own right, but the people that I compare them to and the standards that I personally am trying to achieve, are far above them.

Secondly, I don't see any variation in technique. Nothing I've seen, with the exception of a few nice K.O.'s has made me smile and say, "Oh s**t. That was nice." A true test of hand to hand combat, I don't see it. However, this is my opinion. Not yours.
I don't say they completely suck, because you can use these techniques in actual combat. I'm pointing out what I don't like about it.
hmm...why do you look for style, grace and beauty?
show me a real fight with style grace and beauty please. have you ever seen such a fight? or when you do sparring - do you fight with style grace and beauty? does you master do? i have never seen that. but might be. im not that experienced but curious.
when i said masters in their category i meant not only in free fight but also that many are black belts.

what do you mean by true hand to hand combat? pleas explain.

variation of techniques? well, this might be true at some point. in the early ufc years you saw the main difference between gracie and standupfighters...lol. seriously there was more difference. i think that the new generation just adapted what they saw was working. plus, back then there were no rules and it was baerknuckle. now itīs different. but i stll see some difference (crocop/fedor) but okay, i respect your opinion.

The Shaolin workout was first developed by an Indian Monk named Ta Mo or Bodiharma in Sanskrit. The first thing he taught the monks was internal exercises, to get their blood, bone marrow and vital organs prepared for the more advanced techniques. All of what we see now was taken from his building blocks as time passed and his students began to adopt more methods to create a complete system of exercise and self-defense. I'm quite sure there was trial and error, but you have to remember that these people weren't just monks and fighters, they were well-versed in medicine and human anatomy as well.

Yes, they really did imitate animals. More than the movement, the spirit of the animal was the key to the styles success. If you look at Crane style, it's a defensive/offensive style and it's graceful and soft. You'll never see a crane attacking anything for the sake of attacking. Even in defending, cranes tend to avoid the opponent as it strikes. Tiger style is the exact opposite. Hard, fierce and quite the offensive style, or a lot easier to attack with than that of the crane. We all know the characteristics of the tiger. A beautiful creature that you seriously don't want to get close to. Again, the style is useless without proper bodily training, as most schools neglect these days.
thank you for the knowledge.

thanks for the good discussion. its good to have someone bring his own knowlege plus arguments. i have practiced karate, tae kwon do, wing tsun and now i am doing kickboxing and capoeira. i learned that it depends heavily where you train, who your trainer/master is and besides obviously your own mental attitude the environment.

for example till i started doing kickboxing i nearly had no sparring experience. you might laugh now - but thatīs a very sad thing to me. i had a very hard time getting used to getting hit, hitting (yes, i had to learn the difference between hitting a moving real opponent than hitting air and sandbags..lol). the whole fighting elements. even strategy and mental attitude.

but i also do love the dancing and acrobatic elements of capoeira and iīm eager to learn more.

peace to you Shropsher_Slasher.

Big Risk
02-27-2007, 10:53 AM
Sorry guys, imma have to go with Slasher here. He really does know what hes talking about. But Osyris is from bullshido. No offense Jordan, you my boy and all, but Eastern exercise style is def. better than western. Western is all about brute appearance and its true, over time, these weightlifters will break down by the age of 65. But these monks are still able to do 1 finger pushups by the age of 90. And Jordan, you know damn well why people who master the Shaolin arts dont enter UFC. its part of their way of life not to use it like that. Its almost as if they become a pasifist. The dude that came in after Osyris is a complete douche and really has made no respectible arguement like SLasher and Osyris. If you want to throw your two cents in, atleast do it without bitching and ranting.

Anyway thats my two cents.

Os3y3ris
02-27-2007, 11:45 AM
I didn't make any comment on the exercises man except that they work. Read what I wrote again. You know at the same time that everyone else aint slow and weak. You do taekwondo. Is that slow and weak cause its not shaolin? You know that not to be the case. That kung fu is worthless isn't the case that I'm making. Thats another argument entirely. The case I'm making is that its not the be all, end all of fighting like Shropsher is claiming.

Urban_Journalz
02-27-2007, 07:34 PM
sounds good. for how long youīve been doing this now?


hmm. not true. Win Chun is not a hybrid style. You may see similarities but the concept is completely different - minimalistic. it got his own things like chi-sao.



come on! he can protect nobody. even with shaolin skills you cant fight bullets!


Shaolin were nearly wiped out....


when did shaolin kung-fu get that title?! you say itīs supreme to all other styles? how can you say that? how many martial arts did you practice? did you ever cross-train? honestly do that! itīs two individuals fighting. always. not styles.



ok. i didnt know that they have ground fighting as well. i thought maybe there was no need for that.


ok i cant judge on that as long as i havent read the book. got me really curious. as for the shotputters i wanted to emphasize that their weightexercise is specific to their movement. i also did gymnastics when i was young and i can confirm that bodyweight exercises (mostly isometric) build enromous strenght for the whole body. or in capoeira (which i am practicing now).


interesting. i always wanted how much of the movie mistery is true.


hmm...why do you look for style, grace and beauty?
show me a real fight with style grace and beauty please. have you ever seen such a fight? or when you do sparring - do you fight with style grace and beauty? does you master do? i have never seen that. but might be. im not that experienced but curious.
when i said masters in their category i meant not only in free fight but also that many are black belts.

what do you mean by true hand to hand combat? pleas explain.

variation of techniques? well, this might be true at some point. in the early ufc years you saw the main difference between gracie and standupfighters...lol. seriously there was more difference. i think that the new generation just adapted what they saw was working. plus, back then there were no rules and it was baerknuckle. now itīs different. but i stll see some difference (crocop/fedor) but okay, i respect your opinion.


thank you for the knowledge.

thanks for the good discussion. its good to have someone bring his own knowlege plus arguments. i have practiced karate, tae kwon do, wing tsun and now i am doing kickboxing and capoeira. i learned that it depends heavily where you train, who your trainer/master is and besides obviously your own mental attitude the environment.

for example till i started doing kickboxing i nearly had no sparring experience. you might laugh now - but thatīs a very sad thing to me. i had a very hard time getting used to getting hit, hitting (yes, i had to learn the difference between hitting a moving real opponent than hitting air and sandbags..lol). the whole fighting elements. even strategy and mental attitude.

but i also do love the dancing and acrobatic elements of capoeira and iīm eager to learn more.

peace to you Shropsher_Slasher.

I took up martial arts from the age of 7. I got seriously into the theories, concepts and philosophies in my teens though.

I say Wing Chun is a hybrid, because it has it's roots in The Shaolin Temple, but it's not taught as an official style of the temple itself. With the many styles visible in it, it's a product of a few different styles true, but I'm not knockin' the fact that it is it's very own style as a whole.

Bullets can only go one direction. Hence, if you're quick, you can dodge a bullet from a distance. Since most people insist on sticking a gun in your face, I'd put my money on the monks in that respect as well. You have to also remember that in those situations, a person reaching for a gun is enough for a person with good reflexes to take initiative.

Between the Manchus and internal warfare in China, yeah, Shaolin damn near vanished.

I say #1 in the world as the most practiced and sought after form of martial arts. I didn't say it's supreme to all other styles. I took Ninjitsu, Tae Kwon Do and Capoeira too. Kung-Fu is what I love though. I plan to cross-train once I'm familiar enough with my chosen styles.

Hell yeah. There's always need for ground fighting. These days, the first thing people try to do is get you off balance.

A lot of what looks impossible in those old and new kung-fu flicks is real. I only found that out myself after picking up certain books, because I thought it was all fantasy too.

I look for style, grace and beauty, because mastery of such arts emphasizes just that. You'll never see anyone, wether it's one strike, or five, perform them without fluid motion, purpose and precision. Most real fights lack this because both people are very excited. They lose their mental composure and set to a flat out brawl. Personally, I've never seen such a fight in my travels, but I haven't been to any tournaments either. When I usually spar, it's a bit like that, yes. Both of us are usually guaging the other. Finding out what will make the other attack, defend and seeing what they do in such a situation. It's like chess in a way, and as you continue to fight and guage your opponent, you'll learn to feel their energy and practically predict what's next. That's why you see those gorgeous fight sequences in the movies. Now, granted, they are choreographed, but art imitates life. The principle of guaging I just gave you, I got from a book called, "Tai Chi: Secrets of The Wu Style" which is a translation of the poems and writings of the ancient masters, telling their students how to make the most of their art.

By true hand to hand combat, I mean an even exchange of punches and blocks from both fighters. When both get inside and try to connect.

You're right. It does depend on who your master is. It's all one big circle and every aspect, environment, mental attitude, etc., are all little crescent shaped lines in that circle. You should also pick up books on theory and concept when you come across them as well. Personally, these have been among the most important tools for my practice, in and out of the martial world.
I'm still getting used to combat myself yo. I can't laugh, because it's a serious problem in the martial arts field. People don't spar enough. They learn a routine, get called up to demonstrate, and only when they have to fight a fellow student for a title, to the put forth action. Getting hit on a daily basis in this respect is very important. That way, you'll be used to it. Hell, you might give the opponent the first shot. Just the first shot, they don't have to connect. :p

Thanks for the discussion yourself man. You brought some really dope questions to the table as well.

Peace.