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MsRzaRecTaH
02-21-2007, 02:53 PM
I need help.. (smart people only)
I been looking for the true definition of the word RELIGION..
and have been finding the same definition as the ones in my dictionary....but
I am not looking for that definition.....


I want to know what the true definition of RELIGION means....or what is your
definition of this lovely word..


Thanks guys!

WU-KILLAH
02-21-2007, 02:57 PM
Religion comes from the latin word "religio" wich is a verb that means "to link". That's not a definiton but maybe that info will be useful for your research.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-21-2007, 03:01 PM
This is another term that I found

" Latin word religare, which means “to tie, to bind."

Prolifical ENG
02-21-2007, 03:32 PM
The concept of religion I guess you are referring to.

Just name many characteristics of religion and we can make our own definition of what it means today.

But it seems that you are looking for the original purpose for that word through deriving it from Latin rather than how the concept is interpreted by many today.

Golden_Armz
02-21-2007, 04:36 PM
I think there is the personal form;

"Iman" (level of faith in the heart; conviction)

"Niyya" (intentions: or following your "belief" with righteous action, belief and action go hand in hand, many people say they believe but dont do anything about it)

On the other hand many people have good "Niyya" (intentions) but there reasons are for "self" credibility.

Then you have the external form...

that is what you actually believe (creed), and where you get this source from (i.e scripture, teacher etc)

PEACE

Crackhead Bob
02-21-2007, 04:53 PM
i have a much simpler definition

religion is an unknown commodity used to control the masses, where the law and common sense fails, beginning civilizations are absolutely dependent on it, as anarchy would ensue without a method of control.
Do we need it today? either....
Probably, as there are still some people in places of power who would be totally uncontrollable(see george w bush)
Probably not, as religion is the only thing left besides color and wealth that divides this planet and will surely be its undoing.

Does God's light guide us or blind us?\
"September 11"

WARPATH
02-21-2007, 05:33 PM
Religion:

Guidelines for spirituality, practiced by certain groups or cultures.

Civilison
02-21-2007, 06:55 PM
this is a tricky subject. reason being is that so many people can approach it from different angles.

i agree with your research into the latin origins, "religare" meaning to "tie" or "bind".

the question now is why would the originators of that word came to the conclusion that the best way to describe what they have in mind in terms of 'religion' is to tie and bind??? maybe they were on a mental track to not give a one word literal definition/description but give clues to the attributes and nature of 'religion/religare'.

i've pondered this myself and it does make sense that the definition of religion is to tie or bond. logically, a person would say tied or bond to god/supreme being. and while that is already a satisfactory definition, it does not give the student an understanding of what tied or bond to god is.

therefore the topic falls down the path of your own subjective opinion, spiritual experience and general life experience. i like to believe that it goes deeper than just meaning "tied to god". i think religion is a very valid and active element of life and it can be exercised and expressed in all types of ways.

peace

Prolifical ENG
02-21-2007, 07:19 PM
therefore the topic falls down the path of your own subjective opinion, spiritual experience and general life experience. i like to believe that it goes deeper than just meaning "tied to god".

Yes! A concept that changes slightly through time and is hard to explain in words. The trouble is you can use your experience, but opinions have to be extremely subjective. You need to look at it from a rational view. And the reason why it is brought here. We need more topics like this.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-21-2007, 07:26 PM
But isnt being spiritual and being religious two different things?

MsRzaRecTaH
02-21-2007, 07:36 PM
I mean the only reason why I am asking is because of this.. many ask me my religion..... my answer is quite simple... Universal Love..... now many do not understand the whole idea of why I call it that...
but I will get into that in a second...

now what is being spiritual.....



many tell me that I am spiritual.. others call me religious.. yet
I do not practice religion.. or I do not like to think I do...

I dont go around with a Bible in my hand and ask everyone who is the one that died for our sins .. feel me??



I dont know.. I got into a big arguement with one of my friends last night...
of course I hate the RELIGION topic because many have different views on it..... now hes calling me an atheist because I do not go to church
.. well what does me believing in GOD have anything to do with church?
Why do I have to go to Church to prove to people that I believe in GOD?

Prolifical ENG
02-21-2007, 07:48 PM
But isnt being spiritual and being religious two different things?

They are, but some of those 2 concept's characteristics overlap.

Perhaps one can visualize it by religion being a subset of spirituality too.

june181972
02-21-2007, 07:59 PM
Religion:

To conditionally promise someone, something after they are dead

A.K.A

The biggest con of our times

Godbrother
02-21-2007, 08:33 PM
I mean the only reason why I am asking is because of this.. many ask me my religion..... my answer is quite simple... Universal Love..... now many do not understand the whole idea of why I call it that...
but I will get into that in a second...

now what is being spiritual.....



many tell me that I am spiritual.. others call me religious.. yet
I do not practice religion.. or I do not like to think I do...

I dont go around with a Bible in my hand and ask everyone who is the one that died for our sins .. feel me


Words over time become modified, updated, and put in certain content.

Your answer UNIVERSAL LOVE is a personal religion because your dealing with yourself.

You are not dealing with ethnic religion....Think of your personal religion as an act that you perform everyday which you follow by.

Spiritual....

Think of spiritual as maximizing your inner being(the inner you) 100 times where it is felt by all those around you which also means the atmosphere around you reflects

spiritual supposedly means the absence of the physical body

bizzlez
02-21-2007, 08:37 PM
To me religion is just the belief in your God, whether it be Buddha or whatever.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-21-2007, 09:55 PM
Your answer UNIVERSAL LOVE is a personal religion because your dealing with yourself.

You are not dealing with ethnic religion....Think of your personal religion as an act that you perform everyday which you follow by.



Exactly.

MaXiMus Da MaNtis
02-21-2007, 10:05 PM
religion means HOPE......without it.................... imagine livin life without nothing to live for


its a means.....its a anserw

Civilison
02-21-2007, 10:09 PM
Ms,

spirituality is contained within religion just as well as religion contains spirituality.

spirituality is a more general concept. a spiritualist might personally relate to many religions because his general state of mind is in accord with many of the principles contained within various religions.

religion is more particular and specific. usually religion is associated with a certain group of people geographically, ethnically, historically etc...

religion has many meanings nowadays.

i believe that there is general spirituality within all religions. the state of praying is a natural spiritual state of mind that all experience performing all kinds of spiritual and religious practices.

spirituality is something that people of all cultures around the earth added to their religion. it had to do with their tradition and essence, there is many places on this planet.

I dont know.. I got into a big arguement with one of my friends last night...
of course I hate the RELIGION topic because many have different views on it..... now hes calling me an atheist because I do not go to churchso now this takes a different spin.

so are you trying to analyze your judgment of action or the topic which caused the actions (whatever went down...). in other words, do you feel this problem is about you or religion?

you are not an atheist if you don't go to church and you don't need to feel bad unless you have reason to.

...

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 09:50 AM
But isnt being spiritual and being religious two different things?

Yes.

I mean the only reason why I am asking is because of this.. many ask me my religion..... my answer is quite simple... Universal Love..... now many do not understand the whole idea of why I call it that...
but I will get into that in a second...

now what is being spiritual.....



many tell me that I am spiritual.. others call me religious.. yet
I do not practice religion.. or I do not like to think I do...

I dont go around with a Bible in my hand and ask everyone who is the one that died for our sins .. feel me??



I dont know.. I got into a big arguement with one of my friends last night...
of course I hate the RELIGION topic because many have different views on it..... now hes calling me an atheist because I do not go to church
.. well what does me believing in GOD have anything to do with church?
Why do I have to go to Church to prove to people that I believe in GOD?

This the way I see it.

You have spirituality, but you don't have any set guidelines that are practiced by others. Your a spiritual person, but not a religious one.

Relgion is guidelines for spirituality, not nessicarily sprituality it's self.

There are people that follow religions, but don't nessicarily stick to the script.

For example, a christian that breaks one of the ten commandments, is not being very spirtitual, exspecially if he kills someone. But his religions says if he repents he'll be saved, so in this example this person is a reigious one but not really a spirtiual one.

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 09:55 AM
Many people live for themselves. They make up religions for themselves and what best fits THEM. Its always selfish i think. I want to live for God, and do what God wants me to do, not for myself but for him that made me.

Urban_Journalz
02-22-2007, 12:42 PM
A religion, if practiced properly, is a way of life. The tie that binds a person to their Creator is faith. The following of the rules set forth by the Creator to the created is the way the person's faith stays strong. Religion is really a label or sorts and a weak one at that. I think someone telling you what religion they are is a lot like them telling you what country they're ancestors come from. Meaning most use it as a means of gaining interest or respect. When one who knows that their practice is a way of life, is more likely to tell you first, "I have no religion, I have a way of life." is one who understands the true meaning behind the practices. A Kung-Fu master will never tell you he is one. You'll only find out when it comes time to defend him/herself, or somone in need. Once asked his "style", the true masters will deny even having one, because so many years of practice and study has molded all of those philosophies and styles into one quiet storm.

The only way religion is used as a means to control, is when the ones who teach it misuse the message and the people who are being "taught", don't take the time to find out for themselves. Hence people will say religion in itself is the problem, meanwhile it's the corrupt people who will wield it for selfish reasons that make it so. Society in itself is lawless in this day and age, so anything that remotely resembles order is labeled the "enemy". Religion is just like anything else, there's good and bad examples.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-22-2007, 01:31 PM
okay now here comes the bigger question.......


WHO CREATED GOD?

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 01:41 PM
okay now here comes the bigger question.......


WHO CREATED GOD?

That's the great mystery.

In lakota sometimes we refer to God as Wakan Tanka

The great mystery.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 01:44 PM
Nobody created God, God is self created. If god is a "mystery" to you, then god is unknown because a mystery is something that is unknown.

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 01:54 PM
Nobody created God, God is self created. If god is a "mystery" to you, then god is unknown because a mystery is something that is unknown.

Ok mr. know it all. I'll be sure get my answers about God from you because, I know how much you worship blackmen.

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 01:58 PM
Lol....sometimes i really wonder where you guys get your info from. Who created God? .....ignorant

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 02:08 PM
Lol....sometimes i really wonder where you guys get your info from. Who created God? .....ignorant

Why do you say that question is ignorant?

It's a relevant question. If there is a creator, who or what created the creator? Who or what created the creators creator? It's not comprehendable at this point with our current knowledge in math, or science.

We're only human. The abilities of our mind and bodies only extend through what he exploit in our natural world and elements which we have minute control over at best.

The question is a philsophical one that people have been wondering for centuries.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-22-2007, 02:18 PM
I dont believe its an ignorant question at all..
but Im pretty sure this question has come up in peoples minds thruout time...
I asked my friend today and his answer was simple.. GOD CREATED GOD......
In my opinion... MEN created GOD..
just like the whole Bible is a real good book.....

LHX
02-22-2007, 02:35 PM
it seems that the best definition of god is the thing thats there with or without words to describe it or people to acknowledge it

yes - man did create the word g-o-d

it is a string of 3 letters used to describe something that cannot be seen with the physical eye
(and is therefore subject to different interpretations)

Black Man
02-22-2007, 02:50 PM
Man created the word G-O-D to describe to the blackman, an unseen god didn't come into play until plato. Prior to him, god was man, the blackman.

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 03:01 PM
Man created the word G-O-D to describe to the blackman, an unseen god didn't come into play until plato. Prior to him, god was man, the blackman.

Well that in it's self is subject to debate.

The word God is used in this English language to refer to an omnipotent, onmnscient entity that is controller or ruler of the universe.

You define God as being a Black male.

Dispite what you say about Plato, there were thousands of cultures that believed in an "unseen" God, that have nothing to do with plato, or black men.

check two
02-22-2007, 03:11 PM
I'm surprised that in today's day and age, there isn't a larger amount of atheists and agnostics. I know here in the US, and lot of parents make their kids go to church and follow the same religion that they were brought up in. Hence, the cycle of control continues from one generation to the next. If a person from one religion, for example a Christian, would decide that he wants to change religions, or not be religious anymore, he's shunned and looked down upon. I'm not saying this is always the case, just the common example.

Like I stated earlier, nobody even knows if there is a god or not, so I would think in the future, there will be a greater population of agnostics, then there is now.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 03:21 PM
Well that in it's self is subject to debate.

The word God is used in this English language to refer to an omnipotent, onmnscient entity that is controller or ruler of the universe.

You define God as being a Black male.

Dispite what you say about Plato, there were thousands of cultures that believed in an "unseen" God, that have nothing to do with plato, or black men.

The word God is used in this English language to refer to many things and not just what you said.

I don't define god as being a black male. God is defined as the supreme being simple as that. The question of who is god is answered like this, the Blackman, not the black male, there's a difference between man and male.

Thousands of cultures that believed in an unseen god prior to plato you say? Name me five.

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 03:23 PM
God means one thing, and that is Jehovah or Yahweh, in hebrew its JHWH. God created humans, just because humans were told about God by God.....doesnt mean we created him. That makes no sense at all to me. God has always been here, and maybe we cant comprehend that, but its true and its in the Bible. If you dont believe in the Bible....then i duno what to tell ya.

Civilison
02-22-2007, 03:30 PM
nobody created god

"who created god?", although a valid question it is within itself flawed. why? because the question "who created god" automatically implies two things: creation and god. these are things that come after the personal individual organizes his/her thoughts in regards to what god is.

if a person cannot agree on what god is then he/she shouldn't be asking the question who created it.

plus the whole idea of creating god sounds cheesy to me.

it depends on the sense in which the question is asked. this is obviously more complicated than this being created by this and that created by this.

if you believe that god is a reality that doesn't abidy by space and time than how can it be created if doesn't have a medium to be manifested in? in what sense is it being created?

this is very complicated, a whole book can be written about this. prior and fundamental things need to be acknowledged and recognized before a question as complicated as this can be asked.

and of course, after everything comes the issue of subjectivty vs. objectivity. it can also be said that this question cannot be absolutely answered.

a really good discussion by the way.

PEACE

Black Man
02-22-2007, 03:32 PM
God means one thing, and that is Jehovah or Yahweh, in hebrew its JHWH. God created humans, just because humans were told about God by God.....doesnt mean we created him. That makes no sense at all to me. God has always been here, and maybe we cant comprehend that, but its true and its in the Bible. If you dont believe in the Bible....then i duno what to tell ya.

there's no "J" in the hebrew language.

Civilison
02-22-2007, 03:33 PM
black man,

you make valid points but they are not always understood by everyone.

but im sure you already keep that in mind while posting here.

despite all the heat you get, there is always 5%ers on this forums.

i respect that.

PEACE

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 03:35 PM
Im sorry you are correct sir. But Jehovah was translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton which are symbols and they translate into JHVH or YHWH.

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 03:37 PM
I love debating/talking/having a discussion about religion and God though. I always learn something new.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 03:42 PM
I'm surprised that in today's day and age, there isn't a larger amount of atheists and agnostics. I know here in the US, and lot of parents make their kids go to church and follow the same religion that they were brought up in. Hence, the cycle of control continues from one generation to the next. If a person from one religion, for example a Christian, would decide that he wants to change religions, or not be religious anymore, he's shunned and looked down upon. I'm not saying this is always the case, just the common example.

Like I stated earlier, nobody even knows if there is a god or not, so I would think in the future, there will be a greater population of agnostics, then there is now.
one of the reasons i believe in god is because he sparked it so i believe in god i also believe if you born into a faith u should stay in it your people cannot be wrong there is good in all faiths
i follow my mothers faith which is wrong i'm supposed to follow my fathers faith but now that i'm in it i will never turn my back even if god himself told me it's wrong

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 03:46 PM
The word God is used in this English language to refer to many things and not just what you said.

I don't define god as being a black male. God is defined as the supreme being simple as that. The question of who is god is answered like this, the Blackman, not the black male, there's a difference between man and male.

Thousands of cultures that believed in an unseen god prior to plato you say? Name me five.

Lakota

Dakota

Nakota

Ojibway

Apachee

Black Man
02-22-2007, 03:49 PM
Lakota

Dakota

Nakota

Ojibway

Apachee

those are not cultures, those are tribes/nations. try again.

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 03:49 PM
Lakota was started in like the 18th century, i think Plato was born a little earlier....

Black Man
02-22-2007, 03:50 PM
Im sorry you are correct sir. But Jehovah was translated from the Hebrew Tetragrammaton which are symbols and they translate into JHVH or YHWH.

that symbol in which you speak of is a picture of a man.

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 03:51 PM
those are not cultures, those are tribes/nations. try again.

Each tribe has their own distinct culture.

Lakota was started in like the 18th century, i think Plato was born a little earlier....


LMAO, 1492 columbus sailed the ocean blue. Lakota people were here doing what we do for years.


Ignorance is bliss.

Civilison
02-22-2007, 03:51 PM
...

and there is still more... depending how you look at it.

many ancient cultures had beliefs that god exists in man and man exists in god. all these cultures were original people. but they all believed in a pantheon of gods which tells us that there is more to it than just "man is god".

many of them believed in unseen 'forces' that were universally felt and recognized.

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 03:52 PM
Na....

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/rs/2/Judaism/name/

check two
02-22-2007, 03:53 PM
God means one thing, and that is Jehovah or Yahweh, in hebrew its JHWH. God created humans, just because humans were told about God by God.....doesnt mean we created him. That makes no sense at all to me. God has always been here, and maybe we cant comprehend that, but its true and its in the Bible. If you dont believe in the Bible....then i duno what to tell ya.

That's your viewpoint, it doesn't mean it's true.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 03:54 PM
Each tribe has their own distinct culture.




LMAO, 1492 columbus sailed the ocean blue. Lakota people were here doing what we do for years.


Ignorance is bliss.

you must be ignorant to equate the time columbus was living with plato. two different time periods.

and i asked to name five cultures not nations/tribes.

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 03:54 PM
Each tribe has their own distinct culture.




LMAO, 1492 columbus sailed the ocean blue. Lakota people were here doing what we do for years.


Ignorance is bliss.


Actually these aren't even tribes, these nations of people.

Lakota nation constits of many more tribes for example:

My tribe is the Oglala's, remember blackman, you even posted an entire article written by an Oglala man named Tim Gaigo about mascots.

Having Penis envy over natives now are we?

LikwidSwordz
02-22-2007, 03:55 PM
God - 1.the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

Thats from dictionary.com

The supreme being of this Universe is God, and his name is Jehovah/Yahweh. And this isnt my opinion, its the Bible.

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 03:57 PM
you must be ignorant to equate the time columbus was living with plato. two different time periods.

and i asked to name five cultures not nations/tribes.

Your a fucking idiot, I never siad anything about plato and columbus being in the same time frame.

Each nation had their own culture. Do some research.

Trying to lump nations of people into smaller tribes, I see the DEVIL's Tricknology at work here..........

Black Man
02-22-2007, 04:00 PM
Actually these aren't even tribes, these nations of people.

Lakota nation constits of many more tribes for example:

My tribe is the Oglala's, remember blackman, you even posted an entire article written by an Oglala man named Tim Gaigo about mascots.

Having Penis envy over natives now are we?

a tribe is a nation. also when i wrote tribe or nation they were put together for a reason. tribe/nation.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 04:03 PM
God - 1.the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

Thats from dictionary.com

The supreme being of this Universe is God, and his name is Jehovah/Yahweh. And this isnt my opinion, its the Bible.

which bible do you speak of? the language the people spoke were mainly arabic/aramaic. later came the hebrew. and he has many names in the bible, not just one.

check two
02-22-2007, 04:04 PM
God - 1.the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

Thats from dictionary.com

The supreme being of this Universe is God, and his name is Jehovah/Yahweh. And this isnt my opinion, its the Bible.

I'd rather form my own thoughts on things, and not base stuff soley on what comes from a book.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 04:08 PM
that what my mom taught me

Black Man
02-22-2007, 04:14 PM
who here is the author of the english language?

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 04:18 PM
i don't get the question

Black Man
02-22-2007, 04:34 PM
i don't get the question

IS ANYBODY HERE THE CREATOR, THE MAKER, THE FATHER, THE AUTHOR, ETC. ETC. OF THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE?

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 04:46 PM
what do u think?

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 04:50 PM
black y do u ask questions u already know the aswer to?

Black Man
02-22-2007, 04:54 PM
what do u think?

put my question in context with the last couple of post.

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 05:01 PM
a tribe is a nation. also when i wrote tribe or nation they were put together for a reason. tribe/nation.

A tribe is smaller group of people that are part of a larger nation. Lakota people have their own culture, that is reffered to as Lakota Culture.

There were other tribes of men who believed in God too, not just in the western hemesphere, who practiced their own cultures. There were tribes of civilized men in africa who were enslaved by the uncivil. There were tribes of civilized men in europe who were overtaken by the uncivilized. This has been on going in history.

You wanted me to name five, so I gave you five, and you got upset like you aways do. :stroke:

Don't worry we'll get you educated on this soon enough.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:01 PM
i went back & i read until somone said u ignorent i didn't bother reading any further because i don't believe it
we all still young cats finding our way & only we can find that way is through ourselves
i walk into walls alot but that's part of life

Sexy Jasper
02-22-2007, 05:02 PM
God is not a person, it's a feeling.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:05 PM
like i'm feeling high type feeling or when i'm coming type feeling?

Sexy Jasper
02-22-2007, 05:07 PM
I don't know. I never felt it.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:12 PM
have u never had the urge to get high or have sex

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:13 PM
must be studing to becomea priest

Black Man
02-22-2007, 05:16 PM
A tribe is smaller group of people that are part of a larger nation. Lakota people have their own culture, that is reffered to as Lakota Culture.

There were other tribes of men who believed in God too, not just in the western hemesphere, who practiced their own cultures. There were tribes of civilized men in africa who were enslaved by the uncivil. There were tribes of civilized men in europe who were overtaken by the uncivilized. This has been on going in history.

You wanted me to name five, so I gave you five, and you got upset like you aways do. :stroke:

Don't worry we'll get you educated on this soon enough.

you named five tribes/nations.

what does culture mean?

Sexy Jasper
02-22-2007, 05:19 PM
must be studing to becomea priest
Good one. I meant the God feeling of course.

LHX
02-22-2007, 05:21 PM
Man created the word G-O-D to describe to the blackman, an unseen god didn't come into play until plato. Prior to him, god was man, the blackman.
why create the word g-o-d AND the word m-a-n then?

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:22 PM
yo black what wu tracks u listening to these days?

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 05:24 PM
you named five tribes/nations.

what does culture mean?

I named you five cultures.

Lakota Culture

Dakota Culture

Nakota Culture

Apache Culture

Ojibway Culture

Despite what you may believe, Natives don't all believe in the same things, but we do believe in God. We're not savages, and we're not devoid of religion. We have our own way of life.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:27 PM
i'm a modern day savage

Black Man
02-22-2007, 05:29 PM
why create the word g-o-d AND the word m-a-n then?

to understand.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 05:30 PM
yo black what wu tracks u listening to these days?

everything i got really. it depends what i'm in the mood for. right now(literally) i'm listening to hell razah, right before that k.priest, and before that ghost.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:33 PM
& u soldier what u bumping?

Black Man
02-22-2007, 05:33 PM
I named you five cultures.

Lakota Culture

Dakota Culture

Nakota Culture

Apache Culture

Ojibway Culture

Despite what you may believe, Natives don't all believe in the same things, but we do believe in God. We're not savages, and we're not devoid of religion. We have our own way of life.

you have a religion...then you don't have a culture.

RAMESH
02-22-2007, 05:34 PM
i must of been sitting here for quite a whille listening to nothing just stoned & still smoking

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 06:05 PM
& u soldier what u bumping?

I alwasy listen to RZA's birth of a prince album before I start class.

LHX
02-22-2007, 06:05 PM
to understand.
thanks for clearing that up man

the children can sleep peacefully tonite

WARPATH
02-22-2007, 06:08 PM
you have a religion...then you don't have a culture.

Cultures practice religions, your just being silly again. Are the lines between are culture and religion are so intertwined that it's our way of life and that's how he refer to it, i'm sure 5% can relate.....again. We've been though this shit before.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 06:11 PM
thanks for clearing that up man

the children can sleep peacefully tonite

your welcome, and sleep tight...don't let the bed bugs bite.

Black Man
02-22-2007, 06:16 PM
Cultures practice religions, your just being silly again. Are the lines between are culture and religion are so intertwined that it's our way of life and that's how he refer to it, i'm sure 5% can relate.....again. We've been though this shit before.

Obvious you don't know what the two words mean.

Prolifical ENG
02-22-2007, 06:35 PM
Obvious you don't know what the two words mean.

Parallel case to people having different meaning to the original question of this thread: distinguishing spirituality and religion....some have different views and think they are distinct.

Who can distinguish these terms the best? who is right at the end? the authors of the English dictionary?

Black Man
02-22-2007, 06:43 PM
Parallel case to people having different meaning to the original question of this thread: distinguishing spirituality and religion....some have different views and think they are distinct.

Who can distinguish these terms the best? who is right at the end? the authors of the English dictionary?

Spirituality, religion, culture....they're not the same.

As far as defining these terms, they're already defined. People want to utilize they're interpretation/understanding/misunderstanding of what these words mean to suite their ideas/motives or whatever.

Prolifical ENG
02-22-2007, 06:57 PM
Spirituality, religion, culture....they're not the same.

As far as defining these terms, they're already defined. People want to utilize they're interpretation/understanding/misunderstanding of what these words mean to suite their ideas/motives or whatever.

They aren't the same, however they do have some overlap in characteristics. What people argue is exactly how they overlap, or if one term a subset of the other term. Also if the definition is too broad or narrow also has to be considered.

This overlap is the confusing part of everything and why there is some broken communication in this thread. Some people believe that their definitions are "correct" and the others have comprehension problems. This approach will take us nowhere.

I guess you are right that sometimes people deliberately try to equivocate terms. But on the other hand, sometimes another closely related conceptual word doesn't suit their ideas/motives and they use one largely known word and use it to try to keep things simple. In many cases their ideas are still valid if most of the population understands.

As far as things already defined, concepts are NEVER defined precisely no matter what dictionaries you look in. There might have been attempts in this thread to interpret things, but so far not everyone has been convinced or else this thread would have stopped.

LHX
02-22-2007, 07:06 PM
Spirituality, religion, culture....they're not the same.

As far as defining these terms, they're already defined. People want to utilize they're interpretation/understanding/misunderstanding of what these words mean to suite their ideas/motives or whatever.

does this guy have the same ip address as Goddess?


this seems to be a monthly thing...

some sort of cycle...

Treazon
02-23-2007, 01:09 AM
Cultures practice religions, your just being silly again. Are the lines between are culture and religion are so intertwined that it's our way of life and that's how he refer to it, i'm sure 5% can relate.....again. We've been though this shit before.

but religions exist beyond culture's borders, which are geographic. religion's borders are in the mind and much different person to person. example, you have American culture (if you wanna call it culture:no: ) which is not only home to christians but muslims, hindu, even buddhists and radical cultists.

the culture is the congregation of all these things, as well as others, isnt it? my problem with religion is its historical application and what it represents in our past, in my opinion. it can confine the mind... but dont forget that for those who actually believe in it, it provides a healthy source of hope, something athiests (term used loosely) dont have much of.

last point - i think someone's religious belief system, in whatever shape or form, is as predictable as their social patterns and basic personality - all shaped by experience and genes? we also have to realize that the majority of the people in the world today think less deeply into shit of this importance.

peace

Os3y3ris
02-23-2007, 02:40 AM
I think religion exists to protect us from spirituality. We, meaning mankind in general, contructed it so as to appease our curiousity about the spiritual world and guide us in the absence of this knowledge. The way the world REALLY works and methods of manipulation of its workings is not knowledge meant for everyone. Personally, I'm not sure if I'd inflict that knowledge on ANYONE.

EAGLE EYE
02-23-2007, 02:44 AM
religion is the root of all evil. money too.

Black Man
02-23-2007, 09:45 AM
They aren't the same, however they do have some overlap in characteristics.

I disagree. They don't have overlapping characteristics, however, due to misinterpretations/misunderstandings or just not knowing (what they mean) they are used interchangleble.


Some people believe that their definitions are "correct" and the others have comprehension problems. This approach will take us nowhere.


I agree with you here. Especially with the believing part.

I guess you are right that sometimes people deliberately try to equivocate terms. But on the other hand, sometimes another closely related conceptual word doesn't suit their ideas/motives and they use one largely known word and use it to try to keep things simple. In many cases their ideas are still valid if most of the population understands.

It's easy for the majority of a population to understand when they all running around with misinformation. America, a christian nation. Do you think the majority of people are going to understand ideas/words outside of that?

As far as things already defined, concepts are NEVER defined precisely no matter what dictionaries you look in.

Again, gotta disagree(some words are defined with a bias slant to it, but english is a biased language). Every word is a concept which has meaning and the word is used to convey the individuals concept or idea. That's language. Words are used to express an idea, and each word has a meaning.

The dictionary/encyclopedia and other reference books with a similiar nature of a dictioanary may not be exact, it's a universal foundation for people who speak the language in which the dictionary is written to agree on the meaning of the word. That way there can be communication. People choose not to accept specific words (religion, culture, spirit(uality), ethnicity, nation, nationality) for various reasons some you probably know and some may be unknown.

good add on.

peace.

Black Man
02-23-2007, 09:48 AM
does this guy have the same ip address as Goddess?


this seems to be a monthly thing...

some sort of cycle...

I didn't start the thread, but since you want to single me out for participating, is it not allowed of me to participate in these threads?

Another moderator pretty much agreed with what I said, so what's the problem LHX?

DJMethods
02-23-2007, 11:04 AM
Religion: Answers to questions we'll never know for the scared and ignorant

Black Man
02-23-2007, 11:18 AM
Religion: Answers to questions we'll never know for the scared and ignorant

Why is it then, within the institution of religion, it's normal to hear, "don't question either god or the book they accept as the word of god" and when questions are asked, the answer is normally, "just have faith." Where's the answers???

Prolifical ENG
02-23-2007, 11:32 AM
Look up a concept in the dictionary, all they can do is briefly explain it with referring to another concept (perhaps if you really don't know the other concept, you need to look up that one too). Since it was used to describe that concept, they are closely related. For example, "who is a 'weirdo' and who is 'eccentric'? There are differences, but there is overlap in these terms too. For the case in this thread its just simply a disagreement in the differences and similarities of the more difficult concepts being described, hence it is very difficult for all parties to convince each other and it can only be left at that.

It is true that people do use some terms interchangeable when they shouldn't and sometimes it makes a flaw in their argument, and other times it can be used to test the validity of a statement someone made. For example, Charging Soldier thought he could use the term "male" when you were using the word "man" and you [Black Man] used that word for a reason. There can be overlap in those 2 words since one might say "a man is a human adult male so all men are males" However there was an obvious misconception there. Charging Solider implied that " black man" is a subset of "black male", but (for that case discussed anyway) there was a distinct difference in the context. Therefore he may have been testing the validity of the statement by switching to another close term. However the rebuttal was just a false implication. Two differences in understandings of terms.

However I guess its the way we have been taught how to make "interesting writing" by using more than one redundant word. We always need to be careful when explaining validity from making what you write/say sound better to the audience.

Urban_Journalz
02-23-2007, 01:22 PM
Lol....sometimes i really wonder where you guys get your info from. Who created God? .....ignorant

I'll have to agree with this, but leave out "ignorant", only because some people may not have a depth of understanding as others.

Like Rakim said, "He Is What Always Was." To give a broader example, one of the recitations that Muslims recite during prayer reads, "Be begetteth not, nor is He begotten and there is none comparable unto Him."

In truth, to ask who created The Creator is a bit comical. Think about it, just look at the question, "Who created THE CREATOR?" It makes no sense really. I understand that asking questions may be easier for most than actually following a doctrine, but certain questions make others question your reason for asking to begin with and what was on your mind when you asked.
If I were to say, "No one created The Creator.", by and large, the respose would be, "How do you know." Proving that one party has faith and the other doesn't. So, the answer to that question depends entirely on you as far as personal satisfaction. It doesn't change anything really, because while people will say, "That's your opinion and I'm entitled to mine." There's always 3 sides to a story. My side, your side and the truth. The paradox is that one of the first two sides is kith and kin to the last.

This, in my opinion, is a clear cut case of disbelief. For which there is no remedy outside of the person or persons affected.

crass
02-23-2007, 02:27 PM
i deny jesus christ the deceiver and i abjure the christian faith, holding in contempt all of its works. by the symbol of the creator, i swear henceforth to be a faithful servant of his most puissant archangel, the prince Lucifer.

kiss the goat!

Golden_Armz
02-24-2007, 10:52 AM
i have a much simpler definition

religion is an unknown commodity used to control the masses, where the law and common sense fails, beginning civilizations are absolutely dependent on it, as anarchy would ensue without a method of control.
Do we need it today? either....
Probably, as there are still some people in places of power who would be totally uncontrollable(see george w bush)
Probably not, as religion is the only thing left besides color and wealth that divides this planet and will surely be its undoing.

Does God's light guide us or blind us?\
"September 11"

This is not a definition

Golden_Armz
02-24-2007, 10:53 AM
this forum is awful,
it used to be ok 3 years ago

LHX
02-24-2007, 11:50 AM
I didn't start the thread, but since you want to single me out for participating, is it not allowed of me to participate in these threads?

Another moderator pretty much agreed with what I said, so what's the problem LHX?
im not singling you out for participating

im singling you out because your responses are weak sometimes

LHX
02-24-2007, 11:58 AM
I'll have to agree with this, but leave out "ignorant", only because some people may not have a depth of understanding as others.

Like Rakim said, "He Is What Always Was." To give a broader example, one of the recitations that Muslims recite during prayer reads, "Be begetteth not, nor is He begotten and there is none comparable unto Him."

In truth, to ask who created The Creator is a bit comical. Think about it, just look at the question, "Who created THE CREATOR?" It makes no sense really. I understand that asking questions may be easier for most than actually following a doctrine, but certain questions make others question your reason for asking to begin with and what was on your mind when you asked.
If I were to say, "No one created The Creator.", by and large, the respose would be, "How do you know." Proving that one party has faith and the other doesn't. So, the answer to that question depends entirely on you as far as personal satisfaction. It doesn't change anything really, because while people will say, "That's your opinion and I'm entitled to mine." There's always 3 sides to a story. My side, your side and the truth. The paradox is that one of the first two sides is kith and kin to the last.

This, in my opinion, is a clear cut case of disbelief. For which there is no remedy outside of the person or persons affected.
its true

there are so many elements at work obscuring a deeper understanding of the life experience other than the conventional 'run away from bad things' and 'chase your desires'

intellectually, we all know that a fear of death is unreasonable, and we all know that hate, lust and jealousy are unreasonable

BUT
a mechanism is in place to keep these things around


within the span of seven breaths, a person can tell you that jealousy is bad and then have a moment where he sees something/thinks of something that causes him to be motivated by jealousy

it is some form of schizophrenia - a split mind


tying this all back to the god question:
it is the same element at work

people ask what god is - meanwhile they are god themselves

god trying to define itself


and the issue has been so twisted and confused that people just dont understand the foundation that allows them to even ask the question 'what is god?'


this is one extended period of adjustment

MaXiMus Da MaNtis
02-24-2007, 02:24 PM
In my opinion... MEN created GOD..
just like the whole Bible is a real good book.....



exactly.....................HOPE=LIFE

Golden_Armz
02-24-2007, 03:40 PM
people ask what god is - meanwhile they are god themselves


"22:73 O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!"

The Quran -Translation Chapter: Al-Hajj



ur a god?

create something then!

snatch something from an insect!!!

MsRzaRecTaH
02-24-2007, 06:13 PM
Oh what did I start!! I mean.. Im sorry for opening a thread like this...
but these are questions that Im pretty sure are on peoples thoughts...
people wonder about this all the time. .I thank you all for your opinions and insight.. I dont think its a boring topic though

MsRzaRecTaH
02-24-2007, 06:25 PM
God - 1.the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe.

Thats from dictionary.com

The supreme being of this Universe is God, and his name is Jehovah/Yahweh. And this isnt my opinion, its the Bible.

Do you believe everything in the bible??

LHX
02-24-2007, 07:13 PM
"22:73 O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!"

The Quran -Translation Chapter: Al-Hajj



ur a god?

create something then!

snatch something from an insect!!!

why do you underestimate yourself?

just because you forgot how to do it doesnt mean you cant do it


give yourself some credit

all you need is some time and practice



we are all rooting for you

Os3y3ris
02-24-2007, 07:23 PM
Time, practice and better drugs.

Ultimate Fist
02-24-2007, 08:14 PM
Religion= mythological struture in which to frame history, and psychological and mystical experiences. A collection of symbols basicly. Problem of our age= taken literally.

Urban_Journalz
02-24-2007, 10:59 PM
"22:73 O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!"

The Quran -Translation Chapter: Al-Hajj



ur a god?

create something then!

snatch something from an insect!!!

Easy ya ahki. I feel your frustration, but you gotta remember that some people just don't know. Knowledge comes in degrees, but these days, people have the choice of knowing or not knowing. Some seek their own truth and some seek THE truth. You, me and those who claim divinity know that no one down here can create as The Creator can Create. Sure, we can build, grow and shape, but all of this takes time. None of us can think of what we want and say, "Be!", then have it appear right? Patience is key yo. Prophet Isa, peace be upon him once said, "There are two kinds of people in the world, the sick and the healthy. Be merciful to the sick and give thanks to God for health."

I still gotta cop your album too son. I ain't forgot about you.

Peace

LHX
02-24-2007, 11:20 PM
some people just don't know.

just dont know what?

that man is only limited by his own imagination?


you wanna see me create a fly?
lets finish tearing down this society and then go live in a garden for a few hundred years

ill make you all sorts of flies

even let you name them

Urban_Journalz
02-25-2007, 04:14 AM
just dont know what?

that man is only limited by his own imagination?


you wanna see me create a fly?
lets finish tearing down this society and then go live in a garden for a few hundred years

ill make you all sorts of flies

even let you name them

Wow.
It's an eerie feeling to see what you've read manifested before your very eyes.

Qur'an-16:4 "He Created man from a drop of fluid, yet lo! he stands forth as an open opponent!":yessad:

Now, with all due respect, I was talking to Rah, not you. I have no need to explain it because he'll know what I mean because it was meant for people like him. If you don't like it then I can't help you.

The fact of the matter is, you can't create anything on a the level that's being discussed. Regardless of what you say. You don't have that kind of power. It's not creating a fly, it's snatching something from a fly that was the challenge. Read the parable, it says, "O Mankind...", not just one person. Which clearly tells you, no one in the history of human events was ever able to do what is being described. All anyone will ever be able to do is say, "I could do it if I felt like it, I just don't want to right now." Which is even more comical than the subject at hand in my opinion.

The point of the parable, since it seems to escape people even now, is that there is none outside of The Most High that mankind chooses to call upon besides Him that can create anything. That includes the statues, plants and various people that people choose to pray to other than God Himself. Personally, I could care less what you do with your own time, because it doesn't affect me either way. This was to explain the point Rah was trying to make to those less inclined to think. Or, perhaps, those afraid to do so on this particular subject. The same helplessness we have in divine creation is the same we have in snatching something from a fly. The snatching from the fly would be easier because at least we can grasp what we're trying to do. Creation is an act of sheer will. In our case, it's an act of will, study, and hard work. No one down here can say one word, just one word, and have whatever they thought of, be it a fly or a new continent, appear all of a sudden. That kind of power wasn't given to us and the more I observe people's behavior, the happier I am that the lot of us have forgotten about the powers that we DO have. The idea that it's possible for mankind, a creature barely in control of itself, to do such things, reminds me a bit of Greco-Roman mythology. I.E. it's completely absurd.

Say what you will, you can't create anything that you aren't allowed to create. Even when it's created, it eventually passes away due to imperfection. The world we live in is a sign in itself because it has more than one world within it. On land, we have certain creatures and environments. Under the land, we have completely different creatures and environments. Under the sea is a whole nother world as well. Species of creatures still roam all 3 worlds that haven't been identified by our precious scientists to this day. Mankind had absolutely NOTHING to do with the creation of these worlds or the creatures in them. If anything, we have a direct claim to their destruction. We feel that because we're at the top of the food chain, we're above creation all together. Forgetting all too often that when we die, our bodies return to the same patch of dirt from which they came. It would take years for any one of us to be able to create another living thing from sheer 'handiwork'. Look at cloning and you'll see another group of people in desperate need to play God. Even so, that's not real power. The day a man, woman, child or beast, raises forth their hand/paw/tentacle etc. and reverses the cycle of the sun, changes the seasons in the blink of an eye, or raises the Atlanteans from the dead so they can tell us word for word how their nation perished, then I'll believe they have power, but if they can't, and they most certainly can't, then they should be wary of what they say.

Os3y3ris
02-25-2007, 04:48 AM
I'm with LHX on this one. The issue isn't what we can or can't create. The issue is whether or not we can reach consensus on what has and hasn't been created. That means that we're not looking for the existence of any particular thing, but instead measuring the depth of its existence. Does it exist in relationship to an individual? A collection of individuals? Or perhaps "all" individuals? The power of God isn't creation, but persuasion.

Urban_Journalz
02-25-2007, 05:07 AM
The power of God isn't creation, but persuasion.

To what end?? You make it sound as if He needs us to believe in him. The power of God is manifested in everything seen and unseen. Known and unknown. Creation is the foundation of all of the above mentioned fields. This is where belief and disbelief begin to manifest as well, apparently. One thing is certain, all the people who thrive on "what ifs", I'd pay good money to see their faces when death approaches because with such care-free and pseudo-philosophical convictions ans beliefs, they shouldn't be afraid of a damn thing at that point.

LHX
02-25-2007, 06:41 AM
Wow.
It's an eerie feeling to see what you've read manifested before your very eyes.

Qur'an-16:4 "He Created man from a drop of fluid, yet lo! he stands forth as an open opponent!":yessad:

Now, with all due respect, I was talking to Rah, not you. I have no need to explain it because he'll know what I mean because it was meant for people like him. If you don't like it then I can't help you.
its not a matter of liking it or disliking it
its a matter of calling nonsense nonsense


LHX-42:7 "He calleth bullshit wherever it may appeareth, and seeks not to duck away from those crafty in speech, who would have the people settle for something lessereth than what they areth"


and i dont oppose the most high

i spend every breath seeking to understand him/it better and i understand enuf not to sell myself short



The fact of the matter is, you can't create anything on a the level that's being discussed. Regardless of what you say. You don't have that kind of power. It's not creating a fly, it's snatching something from a fly that was the challenge. Read the parable, it says, "O Mankind...", not just one person. Which clearly tells you, no one in the history of human events was ever able to do what is being described. All anyone will ever be able to do is say, "I could do it if I felt like it, I just don't want to right now." Which is even more comical than the subject at hand in my opinion.
lmfao

my challenge still stands

lets finish dismantling this society
lets find heaven
and THEN i will listen to you tell me what i can and cannot do



The point of the parable, since it seems to escape people even now, is that there is none outside of The Most High that mankind chooses to call upon besides Him that can create anything. That includes the statues, plants and various people that people choose to pray to other than God Himself. Personally, I could care less what you do with your own time, because it doesn't affect me either way. This was to explain the point Rah was trying to make to those less inclined to think. Or, perhaps, those afraid to do so on this particular subject.
i dont see what is scary about complete submission to something bigger than you

its reassuring

it also makes you not afraid to be attacked and persecuted in the court of public perception


its on you if you are afraid to accept the responsibility for everything there is, has been, or will be



The same helplessness we have in divine creation is the same we have in snatching something from a fly. The snatching from the fly would be easier because at least we can grasp what we're trying to do. Creation is an act of sheer will. In our case, it's an act of will, study, and hard work. No one down here can say one word, just one word, and have whatever they thought of, be it a fly or a new continent, appear all of a sudden. That kind of power wasn't given to us and the more I observe people's behavior, the happier I am that the lot of us have forgotten about the powers that we DO have. The idea that it's possible for mankind, a creature barely in control of itself, to do such things, reminds me a bit of Greco-Roman mythology. I.E. it's completely absurd.
its definitely not possible for somebody with your mentality

you can create 47 universes in the time it takes to excrete your morning shit



Say what you will, you can't create anything that you aren't allowed to create.
i agree

Even when it's created, it eventually passes away due to imperfection.
swing and a miss

you can create things that endure


The world we live in is a sign in itself because it has more than one world within it. On land, we have certain creatures and environments. Under the land, we have completely different creatures and environments. Under the sea is a whole nother world as well. Species of creatures still roam all 3 worlds that haven't been identified by our precious scientists to this day.
you doubt my ability to 'snatch something from a fly'

i put it on you to provide a visual demonstration of these '3 worlds' and something travelling thru them

Mankind had absolutely NOTHING to do with the creation of these worlds or the creatures in them. If anything, we have a direct claim to their destruction. We feel that because we're at the top of the food chain, we're above creation all together. Forgetting all too often that when we die, our bodies return to the same patch of dirt from which they came. It would take years for any one of us to be able to create another living thing from sheer 'handiwork'. Look at cloning and you'll see another group of people in desperate need to play God. Even so, that's not real power. The day a man, woman, child or beast, raises forth their hand/paw/tentacle etc. and reverses the cycle of the sun, changes the seasons in the blink of an eye, or raises the Atlanteans from the dead so they can tell us word for word how their nation perished, then I'll believe they have power, but if they can't, and they most certainly can't, then they should be wary of what they say.
you trying to convince the forum? or yourself?

Golden_Armz
02-25-2007, 06:54 AM
The power of God isn't creation, but persuasion.


this forum used to be quite intellectual...now we are reduced to statements like this...if youve got a point to make about GOD, try and bring some evidence, otherwise your just a donkey carrying words.

Slasher, jazakhallah kheir for expanding on my post...im not frustrated, it was more a figure of speech...the bottom line is, we are laymen and not scholars, therefore if we seek a path of knowledge, it must be gradual. How are you gonna get someone whos lived a mentally "dead" life (not referring to anyone) to suddenly start callin himself a manifestation of God, and start dwelling on topics which he shouldnt be dwelling on, since his understanding is lacking, and this will surely lead one to deviation.

For example, in the issue of "god within us" this is a fancy statement that "gurus" and religious men love to use to attract followers. Either this or the subject has been misinterpreted throughout the ages. This may be due to a lack of knowledge or understading on the part of the person.

I found a much more intellectually defined answer, in the teachings of the righteous Sufis, who uphold a doctrine that these bogus gurus only wish they could.

GOD/ALLAH, has 99 names, of which these names are attributes. These attributes manifest themselves in various aspects of Creation. For example, if you see a beautiful rose, that is a manifestation of "Beautiful" and Allah/God is "Most Beautiful". If you see wisdom in a man...that is a manifestation of "Wise" and Allah/God is "Most Wise"...all of Creation except man represents certain attributes, but man has been blessed to represent all of them. But you can only reach this state from true and total submission to God, finding your path to God, as it frees man from his evil desires of "self". This is a path which, only very disciplined people succeed in taking.

LHX, i think your points have a basis, yet are in the wrong, due to your lack of understanding, or reading from the wrong sources. Me myself, have very limited knoweldge too, and even explaining what i explained is going "over" what i should be writing about. Yet, i think you'll agree it is a deeper meaning to what you suggested, and i hope you study the field more, this goes for myself too.

here are a couple of good links:

http://www.humanevol.com/doc/doc200207291196.html

http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Belief/Allah/article03.shtml

http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/2007/02/manifestation-of-divine-attributes-on.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muraqabah

PEACE

LHX
02-25-2007, 06:57 AM
Peace Quest - i will respond to you more later

hopefully you will stick around but i have to run right now


i would like to continue this dialog tho - i dont think its all bad



part of it is you yourself taking responsibility to improve things

Peace

LHX
02-25-2007, 10:26 AM
this forum used to be quite intellectual...now we are reduced to statements like this...if youve got a point to make about GOD, try and bring some evidence, otherwise your just a donkey carrying words.

low blow


Slasher, jazakhallah kheir for expanding on my post...im not frustrated, it was more a figure of speech...the bottom line is, we are laymen and not scholars, therefore if we seek a path of knowledge, it must be gradual. How are you gonna get someone whos lived a mentally "dead" life (not referring to anyone) to suddenly start callin himself a manifestation of God, and start dwelling on topics which he shouldnt be dwelling on, since his understanding is lacking, and this will surely lead one to deviation.

a scholar seeks to be a layman and seeks to reduce things to terms that can be understood by laymen

also:
its not that it must be gradual - its just that its more comfortable when its gradual

severe trauma, near-death experiences, and poverty all have a way of fast-forwarding the process


For example, in the issue of "god within us" this is a fancy statement that "gurus" and religious men love to use to attract followers. Either this or the subject has been misinterpreted throughout the ages. This may be due to a lack of knowledge or understading on the part of the person.

this is true

and it is unfortunate that such a truth has been manipulated for individual gain

trust it - those people suffer, have suffered, and will continue to suffer for leading others astray


I found a much more intellectually defined answer, in the teachings of the righteous Sufis, who uphold a doctrine that these bogus gurus only wish they could.

just so everybody knows - Sufis are human beings just like everybody else

personally, i love and respect sufism and if forced to put a conventional label on myself, it would be a toss up between a Sufi and a Taoist

which is basically the same thing at root


GOD/ALLAH, has 99 names, of which these names are attributes. These attributes manifest themselves in various aspects of Creation. For example, if you see a beautiful rose, that is a manifestation of "Beautiful" and Allah/God is "Most Beautiful". If you see wisdom in a man...that is a manifestation of "Wise" and Allah/God is "Most Wise"...all of Creation except man represents certain attributes, but man has been blessed to represent all of them. But you can only reach this state from true and total submission to God, finding your path to God, as it frees man from his evil desires of "self". This is a path which, only very disciplined people succeed in taking.

i am very familiar with the 99+1 attributes

thats why i understand that if my motives are in the right place and i seek to do right, that even if i fuck it up, i will still be forgiven and loved unconditionally

thats dad we are talking about here

right now he wants us to clean up the house


LHX, i think your points have a basis, yet are in the wrong, due to your lack of understanding, or reading from the wrong sources. Me myself, have very limited knoweldge too, and even explaining what i explained is going "over" what i should be writing about. Yet, i think you'll agree it is a deeper meaning to what you suggested, and i hope you study the field more, this goes for myself too.
all day every day

that is not a exaggeration

dont make the error of projecting your own perceived shortcomings on others

more and more - this insistence of a 'higher power' than self is looking like a cop out on the behalf of people who are looking for a scape goat rather than facing their responsibility for the universe


here are a couple of good links:

http://www.humanevol.com/doc/doc200207291196.html

http://www.islamonline.net/english/introducingislam/Belief/Allah/article03.shtml

http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/2007/02/manifestation-of-divine-attributes-on.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muraqabah

PEACE

i will check those links

here are some for you:

www.subgenius.com (http://www.subgenius.com)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occams_razor

http://myspace-735.vo.llnwd.net/00583/53/78/583458735_l.jpg

Golden_Armz
02-25-2007, 01:47 PM
a scholar seeks to be a layman and seeks to reduce things to terms that can be understood by laymen

most of the time, a scholar has been a layman, before he becomes a scholar. What i mean by the original statement, is that some issues are for scholarly debate, and if debated by laymen should have some evidence to back it up. Also not every scholar seeks to make his work understandable to laymen. Some scholars dont allow laymen to read their books.

also:
its not that it must be gradual - its just that its more comfortable when its gradual


In the context you understood my point i agree. In the context that i meant, is people should start with certain basics, before moving on higher knowledge.

just so everybody knows - Sufis are human beings just like everybody else

i didnt say they were divine. I said some groups methods is the one i look up to. Some Sufis i have doubts about.

personally, i love and respect sufism and if forced to put a conventional label on myself, it would be a toss up between a Sufi and a Taoist


theres a difference between loving and respecting, and actually believing what they believe, and acting upon that. I think thats more important.


i am very familiar with the 99+1 attributes

thats why i understand that if my motives are in the right place and i seek to do right, that even if i fuck it up, i will still be forgiven and loved unconditionally



My arguement is that there is only one GOD. Not in any other other context, such as within, without, external, internal. But one GOD who Created man, because He said so! Therefore if you say your familiar with 99 names, you would see the complexity of creation and not make statements dangerous to your "self".


dont make the error of projecting your own perceived shortcomings on others

well, i realise and i hope you realise, that the more you learn, the more you find out how much you dont know. Also im always careful to stress that i am no scholar, just a student of the universe, therefore i approach my limited knowledge humbly.

more and more - this insistence of a 'higher power' than self is looking like a cop out on the behalf of people who are looking for a scape goat rather than facing their responsibility for the universe

In contrast, the God fearing peoples of say Medieval Islam, made an obligation to study the sciences of life, and they progressed greatly inspiring the european renaissance. I think the point you make has some interesting issues we should deal with, but one who understands the majesty of the creator will seek to find, no?

PEACE

LHX
02-25-2007, 02:29 PM
In contrast, the God fearing peoples of say Medieval Islam, made an obligation to study the sciences of life, and they progressed greatly inspiring the european renaissance. I think the point you make has some interesting issues we should deal with, but one who understands the majesty of the creator will seek to find, no?

PEACE

in all honesty

i find your response to be absolutely reasonable and respectable

i would look forward to building with you in the future as it is apparent that our perspectives are much more similar than they are different - but there is some significance in the differences



My arguement is that there is only one GOD. Not in any other other context, such as within, without, external, internal. But one GOD who Created man, because He said so! Therefore if you say your familiar with 99 names, you would see the complexity of creation and not make statements dangerous to your "self".
i tend to agree

but as there is only one, then the technique of 'creating' also suggests creating from self

and thus
anything created is a manifestation of that which created it

and
endowed with the same opportunity to be aligned with the same intelligence, the 'creation' can be on the same level of that which created it


are you familiar with fractals?

the way things get get created over and over and over again on different levels?

within the mind of each individual man is the capacity for entire universes (multiverses) the same way we are in the universe that 'the creator' 'made' for us


we may have been created by 'the one thing that said so', but we are also part of 'the one thing that said so' and have all the properties of 'the one thing that said so'


even you can say so

MsRzaRecTaH
02-25-2007, 03:04 PM
Yo LHX.. are you on MSN right now??

Urban_Journalz
02-25-2007, 03:10 PM
its not a matter of liking it or disliking it
its a matter of calling nonsense nonsense


LHX-42:7 "He calleth bullshit wherever it may appeareth, and seeks not to duck away from those crafty in speech, who would have the people settle for something lessereth than what they areth"


and i dont oppose the most high

i spend every breath seeking to understand him/it better and i understand enuf not to sell myself short



lmfao

my challenge still stands

lets finish dismantling this society
lets find heaven
and THEN i will listen to you tell me what i can and cannot do



i dont see what is scary about complete submission to something bigger than you

its reassuring

it also makes you not afraid to be attacked and persecuted in the court of public perception


its on you if you are afraid to accept the responsibility for everything there is, has been, or will be



its definitely not possible for somebody with your mentality

you can create 47 universes in the time it takes to excrete your morning shit



i agree


swing and a miss

you can create things that endure


you doubt my ability to 'snatch something from a fly'

i put it on you to provide a visual demonstration of these '3 worlds' and something travelling thru them


you trying to convince the forum? or yourself?

Calling nonsense nonsense? Yet you say you try to understand God, while at the same time make a blatant mockery of Scripture and those who follow it. :clap: You don't spend every breath seeking to understand Him, all you do is find ways to disagree with the answers that are already set forth for those willing to find them, due to the fact that you yourself are unable to do so. Either by choice, or by birth.

Finish dismantling society? Find Heaven? I'd love to know where that came from and is leading to. Sounds like more empty words to me.

There isn't anything scary about submission to The Creator. I'd love to know where I said that. Since you brought up the fact that there's nothing wrong with it and it's reassuring, where do you get your mockery of scriptures from and your claims that you can do what God does?? It's on you if you're not willing to accept responsibility for everything that was, has been and will be?? That makes NO sense. All you're responsible for is what you do. Period. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If that statement were to make any sense, it would have to say that you're responsible for what you know and how you use it, in which case, you'd be speaking as one who believes, instead of yet another who merely asks questions instead of genuinely seeking the Truth. So, I'd try to figure out what I was trying to say, instead of talking for the sake of talking because I'm wondering just how many squirrels are running loose in your attic about now. It's either a bruise on the brain or hypocrisy at work. Afraid to accept responsibility? I'd believe that one who would rather guess and ask profoundly stupid questions while coming up with their own "philosophies" is more afraid to accept responsibilities for their actions than one who practices their doctrine diligently.

Not possible for someone with my mentality?? And I suppose it's possible for someone with yours, right?? Since you seem to be hung up on
'imagination', pay attention; you are a creation. Like it or not, that's the way it is. You can talk for as long as your whims will give you strength to do so, because all you can do is talk. Your challenge still stands?? So does the one in The Qur'an and in 1500 years, not a livin' ass has been able to meet it. Not just the one that Rah quoted, but another that read, "O mankind and Jinni! If you have power to penetrate all reaches of The Heavens, then penetrate them!" So you putting on the air of, "because I think I can" in this case is nothing new. All that's ever happened is lip service, just like now. My statement stands as the proven truth because of that fact. So you can use what language you will, all you'll ever show is who you really are.:yes:

We as humans can create things that endure, but none of us can create things that endure forever. Savvy?

No, I don't doubt your ability to snatch something from a fly, I flat out deny the existence of such ability. As for your 'putting it on me to provide a visual demonstration', the 3 worlds, since this also seems to have escaped you, are, AGAIN, the world we humans dwell in, the space between sky and soil, the world benath the soil where worms, bacteria and other life thives, and the world under the ocean. You want a visual, go watch The Discovery Channel.

Trying to convince the forum or myself?? That only means am I trying to convince YOU, in which case I'll say again, stop overestimating your importance. I don't have to convince anyone because that's not my job, nor am I, unlike you, trying to make everyone believe that I'm right. My points have the gift of being how I feel, plus making sense. I couldn't care less how you feel or what you 'believe' or 'agree' to. I make my points for me. You may have a fetish for typing for the sake of having other people read what you say, which is clear from the contradictions in your posts, but I actually LIVE what I say. Savvy?? So don't think I have anything in common with you other than the fact that we breathe the same air.

Frontal Lobotomy
02-25-2007, 03:22 PM
In British law (not sure if it applies everywhere) Any following that has more than 10,000 members can officially be declared a religion. My example being in the last sensus, more than 10,000 people said their religion was 'jedi' and thus Jedi should've been classed as a religion. The powers that be didn't feel the same way and just considered it facetious.

Os3y3ris
02-25-2007, 03:37 PM
To what end?? You make it sound as if He needs us to believe in him. The power of God is manifested in everything seen and unseen. Known and unknown. Creation is the foundation of all of the above mentioned fields. This is where belief and disbelief begin to manifest as well, apparently.

Our belief is required for creation to have any relevance. If we don't believe it and eliminate knowledge of it from our senses, than in what way does it affect us? It doesn't.

One thing is certain, all the people who thrive on "what ifs", I'd pay good money to see their faces when death approaches because with such care-free and pseudo-philosophical convictions ans beliefs, they shouldn't be afraid of a damn thing at that point.

Living forever is a far scarier concept than dying. I've tried both.

this forum used to be quite intellectual...now we are reduced to statements like this...if youve got a point to make about GOD, try and bring some evidence, otherwise your just a donkey carrying words

Do more/better drugs man. They'll remind you of the truth in what I say.

LHX
02-25-2007, 04:00 PM
Calling nonsense nonsense? Yet you say you try to understand God, while at the same time make a blatant mockery of Scripture and those who follow it. :clap: You don't spend every breath seeking to understand Him, all you do is find ways to disagree with the answers that are already set forth for those willing to find them, due to the fact that you yourself are unable to do so. Either by choice, or by birth.

Finish dismantling society? Find Heaven? I'd love to know where that came from and is leading to. Sounds like more empty words to me.

There isn't anything scary about submission to The Creator. I'd love to know where I said that. Since you brought up the fact that there's nothing wrong with it and it's reassuring, where do you get your mockery of scriptures from and your claims that you can do what God does?? It's on you if you're not willing to accept responsibility for everything that was, has been and will be?? That makes NO sense. All you're responsible for is what you do. Period. You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. If that statement were to make any sense, it would have to say that you're responsible for what you know and how you use it, in which case, you'd be speaking as one who believes, instead of yet another who merely asks questions instead of genuinely seeking the Truth. So, I'd try to figure out what I was trying to say, instead of talking for the sake of talking because I'm wondering just how many squirrels are running loose in your attic about now. It's either a bruise on the brain or hypocrisy at work. Afraid to accept responsibility? I'd believe that one who would rather guess and ask profoundly stupid questions while coming up with their own "philosophies" is more afraid to accept responsibilities for their actions than one who practices their doctrine diligently.

Not possible for someone with my mentality?? And I suppose it's possible for someone with yours, right?? Since you seem to be hung up on
'imagination', pay attention; you are a creation. Like it or not, that's the way it is. You can talk for as long as your whims will give you strength to do so, because all you can do is talk. Your challenge still stands?? So does the one in The Qur'an and in 1500 years, not a livin' ass has been able to meet it. Not just the one that Rah quoted, but another that read, "O mankind and Jinni! If you have power to penetrate all reaches of The Heavens, then penetrate them!" So you putting on the air of, "because I think I can" in this case is nothing new. All that's ever happened is lip service, just like now. My statement stands as the proven truth because of that fact. So you can use what language you will, all you'll ever show is who you really are.:yes:

We as humans can create things that endure, but none of us can create things that endure forever. Savvy?

No, I don't doubt your ability to snatch something from a fly, I flat out deny the existence of such ability. As for your 'putting it on me to provide a visual demonstration', the 3 worlds, since this also seems to have escaped you, are, AGAIN, the world we humans dwell in, the space between sky and soil, the world benath the soil where worms, bacteria and other life thives, and the world under the ocean. You want a visual, go watch The Discovery Channel.

Trying to convince the forum or myself?? That only means am I trying to convince YOU, in which case I'll say again, stop overestimating your importance. I don't have to convince anyone because that's not my job, nor am I, unlike you, trying to make everyone believe that I'm right. My points have the gift of being how I feel, plus making sense. I couldn't care less how you feel or what you 'believe' or 'agree' to. I make my points for me. You may have a fetish for typing for the sake of having other people read what you say, which is clear from the contradictions in your posts, but I actually LIVE what I say. Savvy?? So don't think I have anything in common with you other than the fact that we breathe the same air.


briefly:
1. youre mean and prolly not too friendly
2. 1500 years is not a long time in the scope of infinity
3. the scriptures were written by... people? and are subject to... everything that goes along with that? (critical thinking Shropsher - try it out)
4. sorry i didnt understand '3 worlds' in the Shropsher vernacular (Three Worlds according to wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Worlds)
5. what is wrong with mocking scripture? isnt that what its there for? to be scrutinized / tested / refined?
6. if my words are empty, at least i keep them brief and easy on the eyes (i am that considerate)
7. if the answers are already set forth, then what are you even discussing? why would you waste your time? my hunch is that you are still piecing things together (which is ok - we all are), and there is something redeeming you are getting from this discussion
8. maybe my 'philosophies' sound 'stupid' to you because i have dared to keep a open mind?

Peace

Urban_Journalz
02-25-2007, 04:08 PM
Our belief is required for creation to have any relevance. If we don't believe it and eliminate knowledge of it from our senses, than in what way does it affect us? It doesn't.



Living forever is a far scarier concept than dying. I've tried both.


Our belief doesn't enter into it. If that were so, a lot of things wouldn't be possible. Wether we believe or not doesn't change a thing in the grand scheme of things, all it does is make the non-believer a bit more comfortable. Since the majority of the world is like this and normally what's popular is usually unhealthy, I'll stick to what I believe.

Immortality isn't possible at this stage of existence and I'm glad. Anyone who would want to live here forever has my sympathy.

Civilison
02-25-2007, 04:18 PM
Do more/better drugs man. They'll remind you of the truth in what I say.

lmao

i do get your point... some people maybe can't relate tho.

Urban_Journalz
02-25-2007, 04:35 PM
briefly:
1. youre mean and prolly not too friendly
2. 1500 years is not a long time in the scope of infinity
3. the scriptures were written by... people? and are subject to... everything that goes along with that? (critical thinking Shropsher - try it out)
4. sorry i didnt understand '3 worlds' in the Shropsher vernacular (Three Worlds according to wikipedia) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Worlds)
5. what is wrong with mocking scripture? isnt that what its there for? to be scrutinized / tested / refined?
6. if my words are empty, at least i keep them brief and easy on the eyes (i am that considerate)
7. if the answers are already set forth, then what are you even discussing? why would you waste your time? my hunch is that you are still piecing things together (which is ok - we all are), and there is something redeeming you are getting from this discussion
8. maybe my 'philosophies' sound 'stupid' to you because i have dared to keep a open mind?

Peace

You say I'm mean, I say I'm serious. So whatever to that.

Yeah, 1500 years isn't a long time compared to eternity, that still doesn't leave out the fact that no one has met the challenge and all that's occured is the easiest thing possible, talking.

You assume that the scriptures were written by people and assumptions are just as dangerous as any other form guessing without adequate research. The newer versions of The Torah and Gospel were re-written. The original versions were not written by people. But then, you'd have to have faith to grasp that. The Qur'an is the only book that hasn't been changed since it's revelation. Since you're so fond of calling bluffs, call this one. Go try to find a single copy that isn't like another. Give me one chapter and verse that differs from the same numbered in another copy. Tell yourself to try critical thinking. I'm not the one who contradicts myself in my own posts. There's a fine line between critical thinking and trying to tell someone that the earth is flat. Wrap your mind around that one.

What's wrong with mocking scripture you say? Isn't it there to be scrutinized/ tested/refined? This is a clear-cut case of how much you don't know. To answer your question, if you can even call it that, NO. Scriptures are rules. Savvy? Law. Set forth to maintain order. You wouldn't need LAW if you weren't LAWLESS and contrary to popular and childish belief, their set forth for the positive develpoment of mankind. Too many people are brats in this case though, because they think any and all rules are meant to be questioned, taunted, bent and broken habitually. Their meant to be followed, just like the laws set forth by your government, that I'm sure you're much more willing to follow, are set forth to maintain a certain order. All you do when you mock scripture is jump on the bandwagon of the thousands if not millions of other people who do the same thing. It doesn't matter what the new generations do, what was written was written. Men change the words to suite their own fancies and it's always short-lived. Your vision of The Scripture's purpose is born from what you see other people doing to and with it, not from what it's actual purpose is. Try thinking for yourself along with that 'critical thinking' method you mentioned.

So, the fact that your words are short makes up for the fact that their empty. Do you think about these things before you type, or do you just start typing?? Considerate? Hey, if people don't want to read, they won't read. I don't really stop and ask myself, "Self, what if the amount of words in my post scares those less inclined to read away from what I type?" so it makes me no difference.

Yes, the answers are set forth. I'm typing because it's an open thread and I felt like touching on the subject. The only thing truly redeeming about all of this is seeing how many hilarious conclusions people can come up with.

Dared to keep an open mind?? No, you've dared to come up with conclusions that have no factual backing except, "It could happen".

Don't forget, I wasn't talking to you to begin with, you approached me and not even in a decent manner. So again, if I seem mean, perhaps you should think about how you approach people before you apporach them.

Esquire
02-25-2007, 05:00 PM
Something that give's you hope, some ppl need something to hold on to, the world can be a cold/cold place.

Os3y3ris
02-25-2007, 05:01 PM
Our belief doesn't enter into it. If that were so, a lot of things wouldn't be possible. Wether we believe or not doesn't change a thing in the grand scheme of things, all it does is make the non-believer a bit more comfortable.

In consensus reality, you'd be correct. However, we don't spend all our time there. Also, consensus changes.

Immortality isn't possible at this stage.

Sure it is. Time is a function of the mind, nothing else. When you take responsibility for the concept of forever, there's no reason why you couldn't live forever.

LHX
02-25-2007, 06:47 PM
You say I'm mean, I say I'm serious. So whatever to that.

if you speak soft, you can still preserve the friendship

i will never turn my back on you


Yeah, 1500 years isn't a long time compared to eternity, that still doesn't leave out the fact that no one has met the challenge and all that's occured is the easiest thing possible, talking.

not only is 1500 years not a long time
but
its a really short amount of time


You assume that the scriptures were written by people and assumptions are just as dangerous as any other form guessing without adequate research. The newer versions of The Torah and Gospel were re-written. The original versions were not written by people.
now youre theory is on thin ice

But then, you'd have to have faith to grasp that.
and the ice just broke

The Qur'an is the only book that hasn't been changed since it's revelation. Since you're so fond of calling bluffs, call this one. Go try to find a single copy that isn't like another. Give me one chapter and verse that differs from the same numbered in another copy. Tell yourself to try critical thinking. I'm not the one who contradicts myself in my own posts. There's a fine line between critical thinking and trying to tell someone that the earth is flat. Wrap your mind around that one.
the surface of the earth is flat

what language should i look for it in?


What's wrong with mocking scripture you say? Isn't it there to be scrutinized/ tested/refined? This is a clear-cut case of how much you don't know. To answer your question, if you can even call it that, NO. Scriptures are rules. Savvy? Law. Set forth to maintain order. You wouldn't need LAW if you weren't LAWLESS and contrary to popular and childish belief, their set forth for the positive develpoment of mankind. Too many people are brats in this case though, because they think any and all rules are meant to be questioned, taunted, bent and broken habitually.
laws?
rules?

laws of physics cannot be broken - we already have those

what other laws are there?

books give people suggestions and things to consider

they give warnings

some scriptures try to scare people into acting a certain way


Their meant to be followed, just like the laws set forth by your government, that I'm sure you're much more willing to follow, are set forth to maintain a certain order.
not a good assumption

All you do when you mock scripture is jump on the bandwagon of the thousands if not millions of other people who do the same thing.
and why dont you appear in the threads where i defend all the virtues of scriptures

dont make me out to be something im not

It doesn't matter what the new generations do, what was written was written. Men change the words to suite their own fancies and it's always short-lived.
true

thats one of the reasons why these books were written in the first place it seems - to keep people scared and therefore easier to control

Your vision of The Scripture's purpose is born from what you see other people doing to and with it, not from what it's actual purpose is. Try thinking for yourself along with that 'critical thinking' method you mentioned.
read the tao te ching - which contains the same lessons as the qur'an - and tell me why they didnt resort to fear tactics in the taoist texts?

why did they teach the same lessons without threatening people with eternal damnation? or creating invisible entities with the suggestion of human attributes?


So, the fact that your words are short makes up for the fact that their empty. Do you think about these things before you type, or do you just start typing?? Considerate? Hey, if people don't want to read, they won't read. I don't really stop and ask myself, "Self, what if the amount of words in my post scares those less inclined to read away from what I type?" so it makes me no difference.
thus one would ask the question - why are you typing in the first place if you dont have a audience in mind?

isnt that the same as masturbation?


Yes, the answers are set forth. I'm typing because it's an open thread and I felt like touching on the subject. The only thing truly redeeming about all of this is seeing how many hilarious conclusions people can come up with.

i still wont turn my back on you

hopefully one day we will laugh together


Dared to keep an open mind?? No, you've dared to come up with conclusions that have no factual backing except, "It could happen".

there is factual backing if you are willing to venture outside every once in a while

its healthy to explore different places - some suggest it is what man is born to do


Don't forget, I wasn't talking to you to begin with, you approached me and not even in a decent manner. So again, if I seem mean, perhaps you should think about how you approach people before you apporach them.

i just re-read where i stepped in - and if you take a look at it - it started with me agreeing with you



funny also how Quest was the one to disagree with me initially, but as it turns out, his approach is more conducive to discussion than your confrontational nature
- take some notes

we are in this dirt together whether you like it or not

Peace

Ultimate Fist
02-25-2007, 07:04 PM
Go try to find a single copy that isn't like another. Give me one chapter and verse that differs from the same numbered in another copy.

The numbering in the Torah and Gospels were invented in the middle ages. They are the same wordwise if you take the numbering out. Still, I think at least for Torahs (not so with christian bibles because they have so much sectarianism that requires manipulating verses) the numbering is the same. Show two Torah's with different numbering. Also, for Quarans, look up the Rashad Khalifa edition of the Quaran- it differs by 2 verses from normal Quarans. What does the numbering prove anyway? Logical fallacy.

LikwidSwordz
02-25-2007, 07:32 PM
A lot of Bibles nowadays are mis-translated because a lot of people try to "intrepet" them from the original Greek/Hebrew scriptures. A lot of them dont translate, they intrepet. For example Gehenna/Sheol/Hades is translated into "Hell" a lot and they are definitely not the same thing. Yahweh/Jehovah is put in as "Lord". Anywayz the Bible has proved a lot so if you think it contradicts itself.....or if it was written by men without God's influence please prove that. Unless you can prove it please dont say that only men wrote it. I'm not even really sure if you guys were even talkin about this, i jus skimmed over everything. P.E.A.C.E.

Ultimate Fist
02-25-2007, 07:36 PM
Read

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Ultimate Fist
02-25-2007, 07:49 PM
And one for the muslims too...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html

LikwidSwordz
02-25-2007, 07:50 PM
Yes.....i read.....

Prolifical ENG
02-25-2007, 08:12 PM
A lot of Bibles nowadays are mis-translated because a lot of people try to "intrepet" them from the original Greek/Hebrew scriptures. A lot of them dont translate, they intrepet. For example Gehenna/Sheol/Hades is translated into "Hell" a lot and they are definitely not the same thing. Yahweh/Jehovah is put in as "Lord".

That is very true. This can go back to earlier on in this thread when Blackman and I were discussing terms and concepts and how some may overlap or be interpreted different or even incorrectly.

This is important when translating in different languages. Languages never match up word for word, and different concepts have different properties in what is considered in the definitions. Many of those old scriptures were intended to be worded precisely in that language with the meanings at that time.

For example just a few hundred years ago, Karl Von Klausewitz who was a Prussian military theorist (went on assist in the defeat of Napoleon) wrote a book on war strategy. So of course it gets translated and distorted since all the concepts that he used in the book went deep and complex.

Translation of concepts lead to distortion. One distorted concept on top of another you can still be on track or it can take you waaay off.

LikwidSwordz
02-25-2007, 08:21 PM
Agree 100% sir.

Golden_Armz
02-26-2007, 07:39 AM
And one for the muslims too...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html

ooh Fist you've shattered my faith

lol

Golden_Armz
02-26-2007, 07:56 AM
i would look forward to building with you in the future as it is apparent that our perspectives are much more similar than they are different - but there is some significance in the differences

yes id be happy to do that

not sure if i can respond as quick as you but im sure it will be beneficial on either side.


but as there is only one, then the technique of 'creating' also suggests creating from self

from my understanding, this implies that the Creator created himself, correct me if im wrong.

Now since there isnt any other way for us to find out, apart from going to sources of where something close to this subject is stated, theres no point building on this point, without going to some sources.


and thus
anything created is a manifestation of that which created it


as we agreed we understood. The Creator has certain attributes which are reflected as signs in Creation. Yet the Creator is the "Most" of all these attributes.


and
endowed with the same opportunity to be aligned with the same intelligence, the 'creation' can be on the same level of that which created it


I disagree,

in all honesty the human is not capable of surviving for too long without oxygen in this realm that we live in. This makes the human vulnerable, no matter how intelligent.

Also if the Creator can create, he can destroy. Even if we kill someone we think we have the power to destroy, yet ultimately its the blessing of continued life and strength given to us which allows us to perform an action such as the destruction of another being.


are you familiar with fractals?

Im not but ill check it out.

the way things get get created over and over and over again on different levels?

within the mind of each individual man is the capacity for entire universes (multiverses) the same way we are in the universe that 'the creator' 'made' for us

well everything we see around us is an image projected in our brain. so the images we recieve may be in a filtered form, and not the true actual state of matter

thats why when some claim "There is no god but GOD" they also claim "There is no reality but the REALITY"

heres some work on the true nature of matter:

http://www.harunyahya.com/matrix02a.php


we may have been created by 'the one thing that said so', but we are also part of 'the one thing that said so'

A muslim believes GOD is above Creation yet closer to us than our jugular vein.

and have all the properties of 'the one thing that said so'

this goes back to the discussion of Attributes, and the potential for reflecting certain characteristics.


PEACE BRAH

MsRzaRecTaH
02-26-2007, 08:03 AM
Religion: Answers to questions we'll never know for the scared and ignorant

And why is this your definition of RELIGION?
You believe that people made up religion because they are scared of
the ALMIGHTY? Elaborate...

MsRzaRecTaH
02-26-2007, 08:05 AM
And one for the muslims too...

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html

Oh wow I just read this... very interesting indeed....

Golden_Armz
02-26-2007, 10:03 AM
Oh wow I just read this... very interesting indeed....

whys it so interesting?

MsRzaRecTaH
02-26-2007, 11:02 AM
well Im going to have to read the Q'uran to see if those contradictions are true... so its interesting.. to me.. because it makes me want to dig deeper....

and why do people get closer to GOD when they are faced in a difficult situation.. for example.. aight.. this chick got into a car accident
this past saturday.. shes in critical condition..... and people that know her or seen her are posting bulletins on myspace about
people "praying" for her.. so she can pull thru
why do people do that? why do people want to get closer to "GOD"
when a situation goes wrong or when someone is facing death?

LikwidSwordz
02-26-2007, 11:16 AM
It makes people feel comfort. Same reason why people take pain killers to take away the pain. They believe God will help the person pull through, mentally and emotionally it really helps them. What they dont realize is, why would God help somebody who only notices him when stuff goes "wrong".

Prolifical ENG
02-26-2007, 11:17 AM
I guess sometimes there is nothing people can do except pray in those situations. More hope like mentioned earlier. Perhaps when praying it increases their own awareness and betters their own state of mind to be able to get through those tough situations.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-26-2007, 11:18 AM
What they dont realize is, why would God help somebody who only notices him when stuff goes "wrong".

I thought GOD loved everybody ? Do you believe then that GOD punishes people?

Golden_Armz
02-26-2007, 11:20 AM
well Im going to have to read the Q'uran to see if those contradictions are true... so its interesting.. to me.. because it makes me want to dig deeper....


and how are you going to know if the contradictions are true?

are you going to decide from your own knowledge of Arabic and the Science of Quran study?

WARPATH
02-26-2007, 11:50 AM
Religion is simply:

An institution of the mind

LikwidSwordz
02-26-2007, 01:25 PM
Do I believe God punishes people? Of course its in the Bible. This isnt my opinion or anything. In the Bible it talks about him punishing Adam and Eve, punishing Sodom and Gomorrah.....he does it ALL the time. How could he be a just God if he doesnt punish.

WARPATH
02-26-2007, 02:13 PM
Do I believe God punishes people? Of course its in the Bible. This isnt my opinion or anything. In the Bible it talks about him punishing Adam and Eve, punishing Sodom and Gomorrah.....he does it ALL the time. How could he be a just God if he doesnt punish.

How could he be just God if he does punish? :learning:

Os3y3ris
02-26-2007, 02:16 PM
and how are you going to know if the contradictions are true?

are you going to decide from your own knowledge of Arabic and the Science of Quran study?

Presumably she'd use the same method she'd use to discern truth.

Urban_Journalz
02-26-2007, 02:24 PM
if you speak soft, you can still preserve the friendship

i will never turn my back on you


not only is 1500 years not a long time
but
its a really short amount of time


now youre theory is on thin ice


and the ice just broke


the surface of the earth is flat

what language should i look for it in?


laws?
rules?

laws of physics cannot be broken - we already have those

what other laws are there?

books give people suggestions and things to consider

they give warnings

some scriptures try to scare people into acting a certain way


not a good assumption


and why dont you appear in the threads where i defend all the virtues of scriptures

dont make me out to be something im not


true

thats one of the reasons why these books were written in the first place it seems - to keep people scared and therefore easier to control


read the tao te ching - which contains the same lessons as the qur'an - and tell me why they didnt resort to fear tactics in the taoist texts?

why did they teach the same lessons without threatening people with eternal damnation? or creating invisible entities with the suggestion of human attributes?


thus one would ask the question - why are you typing in the first place if you dont have a audience in mind?

isnt that the same as masturbation?


i still wont turn my back on you

hopefully one day we will laugh together


there is factual backing if you are willing to venture outside every once in a while

its healthy to explore different places - some suggest it is what man is born to do



i just re-read where i stepped in - and if you take a look at it - it started with me agreeing with you



funny also how Quest was the one to disagree with me initially, but as it turns out, his approach is more conducive to discussion than your confrontational nature
- take some notes

we are in this dirt together whether you like it or not

Peace

I have no reason to speak soft to you unless I so choose because you didn't approach me with anything resembling a peaceful nature. Funny how you seem to forget that. Friendship? I never claimed to be your friend to begin with and truth be told there's no reason for me to start now. You expect me to believe that a person I've only talked to a few times and in those few times made it abundantly clear that their only purpose in talking to me was to try and stir up something has my back and will never betray me? Your density knows no bounds does it? The only reason you started ending your posts with 'Peace' is because you saw that I wasn't going to take take any of your shit as easily as some others might. Hence calling me 'mean' and the like.

1500 years 50 years, whatever, you still can't say that anyone has met the challenge. So while you twiddle your thumbs about a time span, consider that I'm talking about something completely different. Unless you wilfully decided to ignore THAT too.

My theory is on thin ice and it just broke? No, you, like most other people in your position can't face the truth and I'll prove it when I get to that comical Tao Te Ching remark.

I said THE EARTH....can you see it?? THE EARTH. Not THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. THE EARTH as in THE ENTIRE PLANET. You know, that big CIRCLE-LIKE THING that's just after Venus and just before Mars?? I know it's difficult, especially for one who willfully skips over things due to the inability to deal with them, but to save some form of face, PAY ATTENTION.

Laws of physics? And just when did that become relevant to the conversation?? You're good for bringing things out of left-field when you have no other legs to stand on I see. Well, your precious laws of physics are broken time and again in fields that you'd rather not observe for fear of being wrong and having to admit that you were misled and loved it every step of the way.

Scriptures aren't mere books. Only to the people who would rather not take on such responsibility and bring about pseudo-philosophical theories that do nothing but make them feel better about their cowardice. You say 'scare tactics'. Which again proves that you would have to have faith to believe such things and you don't. The idea of punishment scares you, therefore, you consider it a con as opposed to a pro. You think it's profound, intelligent or difficult to say, "What if it's not true?", no, what scares you and people like you is, "What if it IS true." Because if it is, all you will have done is dummied yourself down into the negative side of the very thing that you used to mock at.

The Tao Te Ching contains the same lessons as The Qur'an?? You haven't read The Qur'an cover to cover. It's that simple and it shows from your statement. It has similar principles as far as self-serenity and social peace, but that's it. The reason why the Tao Te Ching doesn't resort to 'scare tactics' is because IT'S NOT SCRIPTURE. IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL TEXT. LAO TZU WAS NOT A PROPHET, HE WAS A SCHOLAR. I suppose next you'll ask why Confucius never wrote anything about crime and punishment too right?? Philosophical texts have nothing to do with the Divine Law as a whole because that's not their purpose. Or did that escape you as well?? Fear tactics?? Again, your only problem with that is either your own fear, or your own stupidity. Either you're too afraid to think that maybe everything you've done, good, bad and indifferent is all waiting to testify for or against you, or you'd rather pretend that making yourself feel better by not thinking about it all together will somehow change something in the long run. Either way, it boils down to inability to cope with such things. Fear. Period. You'd rather say, "Why scare us." when you know damn well that the child who is told not to do something and does it anyway, once punished, will think twice about doing it again and will be a better person for it in the future. There's a very difinitive line between discipline and abuse. People like you can't even accept discipline, which in truth is designed to make you a better person overall. You'd rather moan, bitch and complain about the rules. Brats are the same in every walk. The language of The Qur'an doesn't matter, so long as you pick up a copy with the arabic text contained in it. The original recording was in arabic and it has not been touched. English translations vary by certain words, a 'you' instead of a 'ye' and the like, but on the whole, it's the same in every single copy.

The creation of an invisible entity with the suggestion of human attributes?? So, you're saying that all who believe in God are believing in something that was dreamt up by people. Plus, the people wrote the scriptures. Yet you say you try know know and understand God in every walk of life or with every breath you take or whatever blatant lie you typed earlier for the sake of putting on a spiritual sided mask. I pity you. I can't even laugh at you anymore. You don't know what the hell you believe in from one moment to the next. You say what comes to mind based on the paragraph at hand. That's why you're asking so many questions because it keeps you from having to face yourself.

The Tao Te Ching does NOT teach the same lessons as The Qur'an, Gospels, Psalms, Torah, or Proverbs. You'd know this if you had actually read the above mentioned texts in their entirety, instead of glancing at a few passages here and there and convincing yourself that you'd read it all. IF you even did that much.

I'm typing without an audience in mind, because, again, pay attention now, I DON'T NEED OTHER PEOPLE DO VERIFY ME. I do it because I damn well feel like it. Masturbation?? And here again you prove that there isn't a mature bone in your body. No, masturbation, you poor deluded creature, is when you approach someone who wasn't talking to you, with the sheer purpose of disturbing the peace, try to stand by a point that is only held together with spit and a 4 leaf clover, defend the point with contradictions and little to no common sense, and when you're met with direct opposition, clam-up and call the person 'mean', all for the sake of an imaginary status and the attention of other people. Savvy??

Still won't turn your back on me? Then I feel sorry for you. I hold no alliances with you and haven't taken any oaths that would warrant me having your best interest in any situation. If we do laugh together, you'll laugh first and I'll laugh second. Meaning I'll probably be laughing AT you and not WITH you.

Venture outside?? Explore different places?? Some say that's what man was born to do?? So, now it's about what may be man's destiny and purpose. Who was this destiny given by?? Lao Tzu?? The people who created God and wrote the scriptures?? If you believe man has a purpose, then you'll have to backtrack and re-consider something like EVERYTHING YOU'VE TYPED so far. But you won't do that, because this current statement is just another one of your famous contradictions. Made up on the spot in lieu of the desperate need to be important.

Started with you agreeing with me?? Again, your density knows no bounds. Unless you went back and changed the words, I don't have to go back, because your entry was, "Don't know what? That man is limited by his imagination?? You want to see me create a fly? Let's finish tearing down this society and go live in a garden for a few hundred years. I'll create a bunch of flies. Even let you name some of them." Now just where in the vast, barren wasteland of your mind does that look like agreement with ANYTHING I said??

Me and Quest are two different people. It's not funny at all really, because he obviously cares enough to take the extra step. That's my brother and I applaude him for his ability to do so. Also, you didn't approach him the same way you approached me. I, on the other hand, don't give a rat's ass about you. Yeah, peace is the better way and I stay like that by and large, but I don't take anybody's shit, especially when they take the good time to bring it to my door. Savvy? So in YOUR case, there's no reason why I should go that extra mile. What, because you're a moderator? I'm a New Yorker and we're famous for our ability to thoroughly not give a damn. Quest's approach is his approach and my approach is my approach. Deal with it. Maybe you'll think twice the next time you try to come at me stupid, but I doubt it. Maybe you should take notes on how NOT to contradict yourself because all you end up looking like is a semi-educated fool.

We are in this dirt together. Wow. How profound. Have you also heard the fable called, "What goes around comes around", preceeded by the award-winning short, "No pain, no gain"? There was all of NO POINT in what you said. None. We may be in the same dirt, but I clearly understand the situation better than you do. That's all there is to it. If you understood, there wouldn't be gaping holes in your approaches and reproaches.

So take your guesses somewhere where the more shallow of thinkers are more likely to say, "Ohhh, that's deep." and stop trying to convince me that what you're saying makes ANY kind of sense. A guess remains a guess no matter how pretty you try to make it.

"I treated the leper and I cured him. I treated the fool and he caused me distress. Silence is the best reply to the fool."-Isa (pbuh)

So, regardless of the half handy response you come up with, I'm going to give you the best reply because you've proven that you're a fool.

LikwidSwordz
02-26-2007, 02:27 PM
How could he be just God if he does punish? :learning:

Lol......what? Do you know what punish means? Justice? Eye for an eye?

WARPATH
02-26-2007, 02:31 PM
Lol......what? Do you know what punish means? Justice? Eye for an eye?

Punish- When you punish your kids you spank them for not understanding what they did was wrong to you.

Why's everyone here always trying to teach me English.

Urban_Journalz
02-26-2007, 02:38 PM
The numbering in the Torah and Gospels were invented in the middle ages. They are the same wordwise if you take the numbering out. Still, I think at least for Torahs (not so with christian bibles because they have so much sectarianism that requires manipulating verses) the numbering is the same. Show two Torah's with different numbering. Also, for Quarans, look up the Rashad Khalifa edition of the Quaran- it differs by 2 verses from normal Quarans. What does the numbering prove anyway? Logical fallacy.

If that version differs by two verses, then it was probably a mistake. I've seen a couple of them myself. I mean as a whole, the original arabic text is the same in all of them. Those who've actually read it, know that it tells you that, because it's the last revelation to mankind, it will be protected from the forgeries that the previous scriptures fell victim to. It also challenges the whole of mankind to produce just one chapter the like thereof that is in The Qur'an. It's not numbering I'm speaking of, it's the fact that the answers people call themselves seeking are right under their noses. It was a response to the statement or false belief rather, that all scriptures were written by men. If that were really the case, the challenge in The Qur'an would've been met by now. As a book written by men, why would it say, "Woe unto those who change the word of God for a trifling price. Woe unto them for that which their own hands have sent forth." speaking of both The Gospels and The Torah?? A person who is doing exactly what their being warned against and at the same time telling others not to do it for safety purposes makes no sense on this level.

Frontal Lobotomy
02-26-2007, 02:40 PM
Its nice to see that 11 pages in and the tone of the thread is very much similar to that of conflicts in the world new and old regarding this stuff. Maybe religion, at core level, is just a good reason to have a fight. Interpretation is a very fickle moral standpoint..

Os3y3ris
02-26-2007, 02:43 PM
Shropsher, what exactly is the challenge of the Quran? That sounds interesting. I read what you wrote, but what exactly is it claiming that men can't reproduce? Is it referring to the art of it, the composition, some mathematical arrangement or what?

Urban_Journalz
02-26-2007, 03:09 PM
Shropsher, what exactly is the challenge of the Quran? That sounds interesting. I read what you wrote, but what exactly is it claiming that men can't reproduce? Is it referring to the art of it, the composition, some mathematical arrangement or what?

There are many challenges set forth in The Qur'an. The two I'm speaking of are these;

The challenge to create something in the same likeness as God Creates. Now, in The Qur'an, we're told that when God decrees something, he only says unto it, "Be!" and it is. We as humans can create. Civilization wouldn't exist if we couldn't. But none of us can create like that and that's a reminder. To anyone who thinks that their money, fame, fortune, physical strength, mental strength and spiritual strength that thinks they have control over anything.

The second challenge is to produce a Surah (chapter), like that of The Qur'an. Many won't tell you, because many don't know, that The Qur'an is an affirmation and a continuation of the scriptures that went before it. Since those have been tampered with and this is the last revleation to mankind, it's protected. Therefore, it's not possible for someone to re-write this one as they've rewritten it's predecessors. It's more like a challenge of God's Power really if you look at it. He's basically telling you, "Go ahead, try it with this one. I dare you."

LHX
02-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Shropsher - have you ever written a story?

how similar is the relationship between you and a fictional character that you create
to the relationship between you and the most high?

what is the difference between those two relationships?

in between your ears is a space where you can make things 'be' just by virtue of saying it so

the same way i 'am' because the most high said it so

a figure you create is as eternal as you are
you are as eternal as the most high is


a lot of people do not recognize their creative capacity because it is something so simple and natural that they cannot fathom that it might be a divine property

as kids we use it all the time, and left to our own devices, thats what we would spend the majority of time doing - creating

i am being dead serious


i dont want to spar with you

you obviously are not dumb and i have respect for the thoroughness with which you present your point of view


i will re-read your post above later this evening and have a more detailed response

Peace

Urban_Journalz
02-26-2007, 04:03 PM
Punish- When you punish your kids you spank them for not understanding what they did was wrong to you.

Why's everyone here always trying to teach me English.

Dude. he said, "How can He be a just God if He doesn't punish?" Justice requires punishment, so God wouldn't be just if He didn't punish those who habitually do wrong with malice and forethought. You can actually take the parent/child analogy and apply it to us and Him. If all of us were called to account for the things we've done wrong wilfully, no one would be here. So, there's discipline. You may get sick, lose something you really love, or sustain an injury as a result of what you may be doing that isn't the right thing. In the case of nations, we've all read or heard about Sodom and Gomorrah, but very, very few have actually seen the remains of those cities. Trust me, it's fantastically horrifying, but considering what happened before it's destruction, they brought it on themselves.

the silencer
02-26-2007, 04:18 PM
this thread got totally out of control...

let's try to keep it respectful guys

LikwidSwordz
02-26-2007, 05:09 PM
Dude. he said, "How can He be a just God if He doesn't punish?" Justice requires punishment, so God wouldn't be just if He didn't punish those who habitually do wrong with malice and forethought. You can actually take the parent/child analogy and apply it to us and Him. If all of us were called to account for the things we've done wrong wilfully, no one would be here. So, there's discipline. You may get sick, lose something you really love, or sustain an injury as a result of what you may be doing that isn't the right thing. In the case of nations, we've all read or heard about Sodom and Gomorrah, but very, very few have actually seen the remains of those cities. Trust me, it's fantastically horrifying, but considering what happened before it's destruction, they brought it on themselves.

Thank-you

WARPATH
02-26-2007, 05:17 PM
Dude. he said, "How can He be a just God if He doesn't punish?" Justice requires punishment, so God wouldn't be just if He didn't punish those who habitually do wrong with malice and forethought. You can actually take the parent/child analogy and apply it to us and Him. If all of us were called to account for the things we've done wrong wilfully, no one would be here. So, there's discipline. You may get sick, lose something you really love, or sustain an injury as a result of what you may be doing that isn't the right thing. In the case of nations, we've all read or heard about Sodom and Gomorrah, but very, very few have actually seen the remains of those cities. Trust me, it's fantastically horrifying, but considering what happened before it's destruction, they brought it on themselves.

I'm sorry, I just have a different philsophical view point. Your not talking about a just God, your talking about a wrathful one.

Actually i've never read about Sodom and Gomorroah, is that about the city of homo's? The reason why there aren't remains of those citites is probably because they weren't there. If they were there, the Earth has a way of cleansing it's self. Nothing humans build last forever.....except maybe styrofoam.

WARPATH
02-26-2007, 05:27 PM
Thank-you
Sometimes I tend to think outside the bible box.

LHX
02-26-2007, 06:02 PM
Sometimes I tend to think outside the bible box.
HEATHEN!!!11!!!!1!!

LikwidSwordz
02-26-2007, 07:02 PM
Sometimes I tend to think outside the bible box.

No, you just like to argue. If god didnt punish people, then you'd say that he isnt just. And if he is Just, you say hes wrathful. Thats not thinking outside the box.

Visionz
02-26-2007, 07:39 PM
I mean the only reason why I am asking is because of this.. many ask me my religion..... my answer is quite simple... Universal Love..... now many do not understand the whole idea of why I call it that...
but I will get into that in a second...

now what is being spiritual.....



many tell me that I am spiritual.. others call me religious.. yet
I do not practice religion.. or I do not like to think I do...

I dont go around with a Bible in my hand and ask everyone who is the one that died for our sins .. feel me??



I dont know.. I got into a big arguement with one of my friends last night...
of course I hate the RELIGION topic because many have different views on it..... now hes calling me an atheist because I do not go to church
.. well what does me believing in GOD have anything to do with church?
Why do I have to go to Church to prove to people that I believe in GOD?when it comes to people, in all reality, you don't have to prove shit, God knows, and the proof is in your actions.

Visionz
02-26-2007, 09:47 PM
I disagree. They don't have overlapping characteristics, however, due to misinterpretations/misunderstandings or just not knowing (what they mean) they are used interchangleble.


cul·ture [kuhl-cher] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -tured, -tur·ing.
–noun
1. the quality in a person or society that arises from a concern for what is regarded as excellent in arts, letters, manners, scholarly pursuits, etc.
2. that which is excellent in the arts, manners, etc.
3. a particular form or stage of civilization, as that of a certain nation or period: Greek culture.
4. development or improvement of the mind by education or training.
5. the behaviors and beliefs characteristic of a particular social, ethnic, or age group: the youth culture; the drug culture.
6. Anthropology. the sum total of ways of living built up by a group of human beings and transmitted from one generation to another.
7. Biology.
a. the cultivation of microorganisms, as bacteria, or of tissues, for scientific study, medicinal use, etc.
b. the product or growth resulting from such cultivation.
8. the act or practice of cultivating the soil; tillage.
9. the raising of plants or animals, esp. with a view to their improvement.
10. the product or growth resulting from such cultivation.
–verb (used with object)
11. to subject to culture; cultivate.
12. Biology.
a. to grow (microorganisms, tissues, etc.) in or on a controlled or defined medium.
b. to introduce (living material) into a culture medium.Since you already knew the definition to the word culture, and that this discussion is dealing with the meaning of that word in the sense of the 6th definition, how in your mind do they not overlap?

LHX
02-26-2007, 10:29 PM
I have no reason to speak soft to you unless I so choose because you didn't approach me with anything resembling a peaceful nature. Funny how you seem to forget that. Friendship? I never claimed to be your friend to begin with and truth be told there's no reason for me to start now. You expect me to believe that a person I've only talked to a few times and in those few times made it abundantly clear that their only purpose in talking to me was to try and stir up something has my back and will never betray me? Your density knows no bounds does it? The only reason you started ending your posts with 'Peace' is because you saw that I wasn't going to take take any of your shit as easily as some others might. Hence calling me 'mean' and the like.

1500 years 50 years, whatever, you still can't say that anyone has met the challenge. So while you twiddle your thumbs about a time span, consider that I'm talking about something completely different. Unless you wilfully decided to ignore THAT too.

My theory is on thin ice and it just broke? No, you, like most other people in your position can't face the truth and I'll prove it when I get to that comical Tao Te Ching remark.

I said THE EARTH....can you see it?? THE EARTH. Not THE SURFACE OF THE EARTH. THE EARTH as in THE ENTIRE PLANET. You know, that big CIRCLE-LIKE THING that's just after Venus and just before Mars?? I know it's difficult, especially for one who willfully skips over things due to the inability to deal with them, but to save some form of face, PAY ATTENTION.

Laws of physics? And just when did that become relevant to the conversation?? You're good for bringing things out of left-field when you have no other legs to stand on I see. Well, your precious laws of physics are broken time and again in fields that you'd rather not observe for fear of being wrong and having to admit that you were misled and loved it every step of the way.

Scriptures aren't mere books. Only to the people who would rather not take on such responsibility and bring about pseudo-philosophical theories that do nothing but make them feel better about their cowardice. You say 'scare tactics'. Which again proves that you would have to have faith to believe such things and you don't. The idea of punishment scares you, therefore, you consider it a con as opposed to a pro. You think it's profound, intelligent or difficult to say, "What if it's not true?", no, what scares you and people like you is, "What if it IS true." Because if it is, all you will have done is dummied yourself down into the negative side of the very thing that you used to mock at.

The Tao Te Ching contains the same lessons as The Qur'an?? You haven't read The Qur'an cover to cover. It's that simple and it shows from your statement. It has similar principles as far as self-serenity and social peace, but that's it. The reason why the Tao Te Ching doesn't resort to 'scare tactics' is because IT'S NOT SCRIPTURE. IT'S A PHILOSOPHICAL TEXT. LAO TZU WAS NOT A PROPHET, HE WAS A SCHOLAR. I suppose next you'll ask why Confucius never wrote anything about crime and punishment too right?? Philosophical texts have nothing to do with the Divine Law as a whole because that's not their purpose. Or did that escape you as well?? Fear tactics?? Again, your only problem with that is either your own fear, or your own stupidity. Either you're too afraid to think that maybe everything you've done, good, bad and indifferent is all waiting to testify for or against you, or you'd rather pretend that making yourself feel better by not thinking about it all together will somehow change something in the long run. Either way, it boils down to inability to cope with such things. Fear. Period. You'd rather say, "Why scare us." when you know damn well that the child who is told not to do something and does it anyway, once punished, will think twice about doing it again and will be a better person for it in the future. There's a very difinitive line between discipline and abuse. People like you can't even accept discipline, which in truth is designed to make you a better person overall. You'd rather moan, bitch and complain about the rules. Brats are the same in every walk. The language of The Qur'an doesn't matter, so long as you pick up a copy with the arabic text contained in it. The original recording was in arabic and it has not been touched. English translations vary by certain words, a 'you' instead of a 'ye' and the like, but on the whole, it's the same in every single copy.

The creation of an invisible entity with the suggestion of human attributes?? So, you're saying that all who believe in God are believing in something that was dreamt up by people. Plus, the people wrote the scriptures. Yet you say you try know know and understand God in every walk of life or with every breath you take or whatever blatant lie you typed earlier for the sake of putting on a spiritual sided mask. I pity you. I can't even laugh at you anymore. You don't know what the hell you believe in from one moment to the next. You say what comes to mind based on the paragraph at hand. That's why you're asking so many questions because it keeps you from having to face yourself.

The Tao Te Ching does NOT teach the same lessons as The Qur'an, Gospels, Psalms, Torah, or Proverbs. You'd know this if you had actually read the above mentioned texts in their entirety, instead of glancing at a few passages here and there and convincing yourself that you'd read it all. IF you even did that much.

I'm typing without an audience in mind, because, again, pay attention now, I DON'T NEED OTHER PEOPLE DO VERIFY ME. I do it because I damn well feel like it. Masturbation?? And here again you prove that there isn't a mature bone in your body. No, masturbation, you poor deluded creature, is when you approach someone who wasn't talking to you, with the sheer purpose of disturbing the peace, try to stand by a point that is only held together with spit and a 4 leaf clover, defend the point with contradictions and little to no common sense, and when you're met with direct opposition, clam-up and call the person 'mean', all for the sake of an imaginary status and the attention of other people. Savvy??

Still won't turn your back on me? Then I feel sorry for you. I hold no alliances with you and haven't taken any oaths that would warrant me having your best interest in any situation. If we do laugh together, you'll laugh first and I'll laugh second. Meaning I'll probably be laughing AT you and not WITH you.

Venture outside?? Explore different places?? Some say that's what man was born to do?? So, now it's about what may be man's destiny and purpose. Who was this destiny given by?? Lao Tzu?? The people who created God and wrote the scriptures?? If you believe man has a purpose, then you'll have to backtrack and re-consider something like EVERYTHING YOU'VE TYPED so far. But you won't do that, because this current statement is just another one of your famous contradictions. Made up on the spot in lieu of the desperate need to be important.

Started with you agreeing with me?? Again, your density knows no bounds. Unless you went back and changed the words, I don't have to go back, because your entry was, "Don't know what? That man is limited by his imagination?? You want to see me create a fly? Let's finish tearing down this society and go live in a garden for a few hundred years. I'll create a bunch of flies. Even let you name some of them." Now just where in the vast, barren wasteland of your mind does that look like agreement with ANYTHING I said??

Me and Quest are two different people. It's not funny at all really, because he obviously cares enough to take the extra step. That's my brother and I applaude him for his ability to do so. Also, you didn't approach him the same way you approached me. I, on the other hand, don't give a rat's ass about you. Yeah, peace is the better way and I stay like that by and large, but I don't take anybody's shit, especially when they take the good time to bring it to my door. Savvy? So in YOUR case, there's no reason why I should go that extra mile. What, because you're a moderator? I'm a New Yorker and we're famous for our ability to thoroughly not give a damn. Quest's approach is his approach and my approach is my approach. Deal with it. Maybe you'll think twice the next time you try to come at me stupid, but I doubt it. Maybe you should take notes on how NOT to contradict yourself because all you end up looking like is a semi-educated fool.

We are in this dirt together. Wow. How profound. Have you also heard the fable called, "What goes around comes around", preceeded by the award-winning short, "No pain, no gain"? There was all of NO POINT in what you said. None. We may be in the same dirt, but I clearly understand the situation better than you do. That's all there is to it. If you understood, there wouldn't be gaping holes in your approaches and reproaches.

So take your guesses somewhere where the more shallow of thinkers are more likely to say, "Ohhh, that's deep." and stop trying to convince me that what you're saying makes ANY kind of sense. A guess remains a guess no matter how pretty you try to make it.

"I treated the leper and I cured him. I treated the fool and he caused me distress. Silence is the best reply to the fool."-Isa (pbuh)

So, regardless of the half handy response you come up with, I'm going to give you the best reply because you've proven that you're a fool.
well

ill admit that its taking a lot of restraint not to fire back at you
but
im not going to

as i said before, i have more in common with you than 99.9% of the rest of people, so im not gonna flame you about the one aspect of things we disagree on

i accept my suffering and punishment with humility and open arms and recognize it as an opportunity to learn

and for the record:

this was my first response to you in this thread - agreeing with what you had posted:

its true

there are so many elements at work obscuring a deeper understanding of the life experience other than the conventional 'run away from bad things' and 'chase your desires'

intellectually, we all know that a fear of death is unreasonable, and we all know that hate, lust and jealousy are unreasonable

BUT
a mechanism is in place to keep these things around

bizzlez
02-26-2007, 11:10 PM
to me religion is just the body/system in which our beliefs reside in

and because many generations around ours don't know any different there won't be many new amazing beliefs for a while

Golden_Armz
02-27-2007, 09:27 AM
yeah no need for pointless pages of arguements guys...its better to state your point...back it up and finish....!

WARPATH
02-27-2007, 10:05 AM
No, you just like to argue. If god didnt punish people, then you'd say that he isnt just. And if he is Just, you say hes wrathful. Thats not thinking outside the box.

Okay Miss Cleo, I guess you you can see the future now.....

Maybe I do like to argue, but it's not without it's merit.

It's obvious your scope is limited, so i'm gonna present some simple questions and maybe you'll be able to comprehend where i'm coming from.

Take the role of a creator for a minute- you have a baby.

Did you have a baby so you can kill it off when it does somthing you disagree with?

If your gonna kill your child, what was the point having the child in the first place?

Now think about your "Just" God.

A God that creates, then kills his creation when they do somthing wrong.

Are these traits of a omniscient being?

Visionz
02-27-2007, 10:22 AM
^but why would death have to be involved in that scenario? Granted the Bible speaks of instances where that was indeed the case, but speaking from a view point of modern life, taking a few lumps from life itself can really humble a person if they look at things in the right perspective.

WARPATH
02-27-2007, 10:29 AM
^but why would death have to be involved in that scenario? Granted the Bible speaks of instances where that was indeed the case, but speaking from a view point of modern life, taking a few lumps from life itself can really humble a person if they look at things in the right perspective.

I agree.

But the point we're disputing here is a wrathful God versus, a Just God.

A God that kills in not a Just God.

Visionz
02-27-2007, 11:00 AM
^what if he knocked over dead a would-be child molseter and sparred that trauma from ever being known by his would-be victims, wouldn't that be just?

WARPATH
02-27-2007, 11:31 AM
^what if he knocked over dead a would-be child molseter and sparred that trauma from ever being known by his would-be victims, wouldn't that be just?

No, because the subject had never molested anyone. That would make God a murderer. Why would anyone worship a murderer.

But from another view point:

A god that doesn't allow a person to make their choices would be a slave driver.

Why give the molester the choice in the first place?

Why give the molester life in the first place?

Os3y3ris
02-27-2007, 01:24 PM
I disagree Charging Soldier. Sometimes you have to deal with someone harshly. You can't allow everything.

Urban_Journalz
02-27-2007, 05:45 PM
I'm sorry, I just have a different philsophical view point. Your not talking about a just God, your talking about a wrathful one.

Actually i've never read about Sodom and Gomorroah, is that about the city of homo's? The reason why there aren't remains of those citites is probably because they weren't there. If they were there, the Earth has a way of cleansing it's self. Nothing humans build last forever.....except maybe styrofoam.

Again, there's the parent/child relationship to consider. A person who sees a child being punished may think the child is being abused, but if the observer were to find out that the child called it's mother a flithy whore, then common sense would say that the child deserved to be slapped in the mouth for discipline.

A wrathful God? No, a just God. Why set forth rules if there are no consequences to breaking them??

Yes, the story of Sodom & Gomorrah was about homosexuals and their decline to leave such practices alone.
There are remains of Sodom & Gomorrah, I've seen them. The reason why the remains are still there, is for anyone who doubts, and for anyone who believes, to investigate for themselves.

If you feel the need to investigate this for yourself, go to http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm where Ron Wyatt, an archaeologist, has these pictures for you to see for yourself.

Sometimes I tend to think outside the bible box.

In the case of this, clearly you mis-understood what was typed. Instead of seeing, "A just God", you saw, "Just a God.", which is niether here nor there in the long run, but, since these stories, topics and principles relate to the scriptures, it would be wise to think in the same vien.

froth
02-27-2007, 10:35 PM
your interpretation of the sodom story is flat out wrong, build with some jewish scholars who can break down the language for you

Visionz
02-27-2007, 10:53 PM
your interpretation of the sodom story is flat out wrong, build with some jewish scholars who can break down the language for youI'm don't know any jewish scholars so I'd be interested to hear what you know on the subject. Because of the many translations and revisions I'm in doubt that the words have completely retained their original meaning.

Urban_Journalz
02-28-2007, 12:03 AM
your interpretation of the sodom story is flat out wrong, build with some jewish scholars who can break down the language for you

It's not my interpretation. Read about Lot, nephew of Abraham, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

MsRzaRecTaH
02-28-2007, 10:24 PM
Yo I didnt mean to create a thread like this one.. I just really basically wanted someones definition to the word religion and what it means to them...
Yes I know I asked who then created GOD.. only because I am pretty sure thought centuries that question has been in the air.....
I am however very interested in everyones opinion on the topic though...
I know we always dont agree with one another ... but do remember.. we all bleed the same and we all brothers and sisters.....
but.. let me keep reading... Peace

Sexy Jasper
03-01-2007, 05:10 AM
I need help.. (smart people only)
I been looking for the true definition of the word RELIGION..
and have been finding the same definition as the ones in my dictionary....but
I am not looking for that definition.....


I want to know what the true definition of RELIGION means....or what is your
definition of this lovely word..


Thanks guys!I'm not very smart, but I do want to answer your question. Sort of. The answer is in the dictionary, that's my bible. It says:

re·li·gion http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Freligion) /rɪˈlɪdʒhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1.a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. 2.a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion. 3.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions. 4.the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion. 5.the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. 6.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice. 7.religions, Archaic. religious rites. 8.Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one's vow. —Idiom9.get religion, Informal. a.to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices. b.to resolve to mend one's errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.
[Origin: 1150–1200; ME religioun (< OF religion) < L religiōn- (s. of religiō) conscientiousness, piety, equiv. to relig(āre) to tie, fasten (re- re- (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=re-) + ligāre to bind, tie; cf. ligament (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ligament)) + -iōn- -ion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=-ion); cf. rely (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rely)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

That's what I believe.

Os3y3ris
03-01-2007, 10:14 AM
I think she wants the etymology, not the definition.

snapple
03-01-2007, 11:37 AM
i define it as a code of life. it's something you eat sleep dream and breath. it is my foundation. it's something extremley intamite and personal. it's also therapy and empowerment. it's many many things i could go on all day.

Sexy Jasper
03-01-2007, 02:30 PM
I think she wants the etymology, not the definition.
No shit. To me they're the same. Maybe it's because I don't have a religion.

WARPATH
03-01-2007, 05:33 PM
Again, there's the parent/child relationship to consider. A person who sees a child being punished may think the child is being abused, but if the observer were to find out that the child called it's mother a flithy whore, then common sense would say that the child deserved to be slapped in the mouth for discipline.

If your slapping children in the mouth, your abusing them. A child's attitude is a reflection on the parent. In this case, the mother shouldn't be such a filthy whore, then the child would act right. The parents are the ones that should be slapping themselves for using profanity around the kid.


A wrathful God? No, a just God. Why set forth rules if there are no consequences to breaking them??

A wrathful God kills. Who makes the rules? Your refering to rules made by man, exspecially in the Sodom and Gomorrah story.


Yes, the story of Sodom & Gomorrah was about homosexuals and their decline to leave such practices alone.
There are remains of Sodom & Gomorrah, I've seen them. The reason why the remains are still there, is for anyone who doubts, and for anyone who believes, to investigate for themselves.

If you feel the need to investigate this for yourself, go to http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm where Ron Wyatt, an archaeologist, has these pictures for you to see for yourself.


I don't really care to research this at the moment, but thanks for the rescource.



In the case of this, clearly you mis-understood what was typed. Instead of seeing, "A just God", you saw, "Just a God.", which is niether here nor there in the long run, but, since these stories, topics and principles relate to the scriptures, it would be wise to think in the same vien.


Did you really feel like you had to make this comment? I understood what you meant. Again, why do you guys think you need to teach me English? I've taken enough English courses in college to never have to dwell on the subject unless I want to.

As far as thinking in scriptures, all I have to say is, your scriptures don't apply to me. I have no need for scriptures written by men a long time ago, in another country, in another language. That's your chosen path, and it's all good.

I finished high school in christian private school, where we were required to study scriptures daily. Then I was interested, and I studied scriptures with Jesuit teachers that would break everything down in the context it was used back then. Now I could careless what's written in the bible. No disrespect to the religion, it's just not for me.

WARPATH
03-01-2007, 05:46 PM
I disagree Charging Soldier. Sometimes you have to deal with someone harshly. You can't allow everything.

Sometimes we need to deal with each other harshly so people don't get out of control.

But, people have need to make their own choices. If it's a decision against God, and you believe in an afterlife, then you'll have to answer to God.


If you don't believe in God, or an afterlife, then there always be people that will deal with you too.

So, regardless of what anyone believes, people need to show each other basic courtsey and respect.

MsRzaRecTaH
03-02-2007, 10:24 AM
interesting.... but . .aight Im going to have to open a new thread for this one then... be right back

Os3y3ris
03-02-2007, 11:49 AM
But, people have need to make their own choices. If it's a decision against God, and you believe in an afterlife, then you'll have to answer to God.

I disagree. People WANT to make their own choices. They don't need to and they don't. Trying to do so is like twisting the key on a windup toy to remove it from its back. Free will is an illusion.

WARPATH
03-02-2007, 11:52 AM
I disagree. People WANT to make their own choices. They don't need to and they don't. Trying to do so is like twisting the key on a windup toy to remove it from its back. Free will is an illusion.

How? Free will is the greatest gift(if you believie in God) we have.

or

Free will is the greatest evolutionary step(if you believe in evolution) that man has made.

LHX
03-02-2007, 12:13 PM
free will and self-consciousness go hand in hand

we have free will to experiment and make mistakes and see why it is best to align with (insert word for the most high / nature / the universe) in order to avoid pain and torment


and then once we learn how things work - we have free will to create whatever we want to create with what we learned


freedom within limitations is still freedom

even tho it is technically a trap



(lol mindfuck)

Os3y3ris
03-02-2007, 12:30 PM
Free will is something to strive for, not something we actually have. In striving for it, you're satisfying the basic impulses programmed into you. If you were free, you wouldn't bother.

LHX
03-02-2007, 02:11 PM
this could turn into a discussion of semantics


i do see what you are saying

Os3y3ris
03-02-2007, 02:47 PM
This IS a semantics thread. :-)

But anyways, let me clarify my position.

Now, by free will, I mean action based on impulses stemming from the one called "I". I propose that instead of action stemming from I, that all action is based on the mathematics of our brains programming, stored in a normally inaccessible area that for the purposes of this dicussion, I will refer to as "Other". This mathematics propels us into perpetual motion. Now, the illusion of free will stems from the seperation of I and Other. I has no idea the existence of Other and instead, except for the philosophers, ignore the source of free will. However, when asked about free will, agents of I think and ponder. Surely there is a source, a reason, a cause, correct? How do you know free will exists? If your answer is anything but "Because I.", if there is any rationalizing, if there is any thought required, then I, which is You, is not the source. It is something seperate from I, which can also be said to be the ego.

Should I meet Other there exists, based on the specifics of an individuals equation, the possibility of a crash similar to a computer error. I is most certainly rebooted and reset and that may undermine the functioning of Other, essentially destroying the will, free or otherwise.

Essentially, the mind can be manipulated like any mathematically based machine. Just like if you give contradictory commands to a computer, the mind too will crash.

WARPATH
03-02-2007, 03:05 PM
^^ I don't think you clarified anything with that.

Everyone has choices to make. There will always be things that influence our choices, but ultimatley they're our personal choices.

Os3y3ris
03-02-2007, 04:53 PM
Sure, I clarified a lot of things. Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but I expanded on a lot from the previous post. Anyways, to see the truth in the matter, you've got to undergo ego death. You'll then see whats left when the concept of self is stripped away. You don't have choices to MAKE, but to observe.

WARPATH
03-02-2007, 04:59 PM
Sure, I clarified a lot of things. Maybe not what you wanted to hear, but I expanded on a lot from the previous post. Anyways, to see the truth in the matter, you've got to undergo ego death. You'll then see whats left when the concept of self is stripped away. You don't have choices to MAKE, but to observe.

I can dig it.

But, you can't land a plane on Auto-Pilot.

Civilison
03-03-2007, 12:38 PM
This IS a semantics thread. :-)

But anyways, let me clarify my position.

Now, by free will, I mean action based on impulses stemming from the one called "I". I propose that instead of action stemming from I, that all action is based on the mathematics of our brains programming, stored in a normally inaccessible area that for the purposes of this dicussion, I will refer to as "Other". This mathematics propels us into perpetual motion. Now, the illusion of free will stems from the seperation of I and Other. I has no idea the existence of Other and instead, except for the philosophers, ignore the source of free will. However, when asked about free will, agents of I think and ponder. Surely there is a source, a reason, a cause, correct? How do you know free will exists? If your answer is anything but "Because I.", if there is any rationalizing, if there is any thought required, then I, which is You, is not the source. It is something seperate from I, which can also be said to be the ego.

Should I meet Other there exists, based on the specifics of an individuals equation, the possibility of a crash similar to a computer error. I is most certainly rebooted and reset and that may undermine the functioning of Other, essentially destroying the will, free or otherwise.

Essentially, the mind can be manipulated like any mathematically based machine. Just like if you give contradictory commands to a computer, the mind too will crash.

this is good

Marc051
03-04-2007, 07:25 AM
I've never been religious but I simply see it as an archaic and organized systems of beliefs that guide the way you live. Because there are so many different religions that exist in many diverse cultures, whose to say which is the right one? Many people believe that in order to be content in life you have to fulffill the needs of your mind, body and spirit. Religion fills your spiritual needs and therefore gives meaning to many people's lives. However, because people take it so seriously there's so much controversey that leads to unecessary conflict. In my opinion I think you can still be ethical and moral without being religious and therefore think we are better off without religion. I'm not an atheist although I can't stand people who do crazy irrational things because of their religion.

LORD NOSE
06-14-2011, 12:19 PM
up

Fatal Guillotine
06-15-2011, 08:03 AM
Religion is the difference between the Truth that we have identified and work with daily, and that which has yet to be discovered. A good religion will encourage those who follow it to strive for the Truth and support them in doing so. As a result mankind evolves and reaps the benefits getting closer to seeing everything in its purest form as Truth. Some call it finding God. Others call it enlightenment.

There are religions on Earth which do nothing to further mankind and his knowledge of the Truth. They serve no purpose.

The only thing that is perpetual is the Truth.