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Miliato
02-26-2007, 10:38 AM
Just as MTV did in 2005 when they attempted to name hip-hop’s greatest MC, they’re now attempting to name hip-hop’s greatest group. Sway, who is the co-creator of this project, among others, are part of the “Brain Trust” roundtable discussion that will air March 4 at 2pm on MTV2.




“‘The Greatest Hip Hop’ project is important to the hip-hop community because it educates our audience about the roots of our culture by honoring the pioneers,” Rahman Dukes of MTV told HipHopGame. “The debate over the greatest groups is the most recent leg of our project that has also included greatest albums and greatest MC’s. We're not saying our list is perfect. Our intentions were to initiate conversation and get people excited.”




A trailer for the program can be viewed at: http://www.ifilm.com/myifilm/MTVNews/video/2825834 (http://www.ifilm.com/myifilm/MTVNews/video/2825834).


Hiphopgame.com

Esquire
02-26-2007, 10:44 AM
Well i know who i'd pick, should be interesting.

TAURO
02-26-2007, 11:13 AM
No matter who they choose it will never be the right answer because everyone has their own favourates no matter what.

Hayabusa
02-26-2007, 11:18 AM
I think De La Soul will win it. That would be tight. Them or Wu works for me.

Edgar Erebus
02-26-2007, 11:19 AM
^^ Don't forget Public Enemy. Not only they are mad important for hip-hop, they are also currently longest-living group - together since 1982.

2L8Lit da croatianMC
02-26-2007, 11:34 AM
I agree wit da PE T..

UNCLE RUCKUS
02-26-2007, 11:34 AM
^^^^Beastie Boys have been together longer though

11th Chamber
02-26-2007, 11:42 AM
Public Enemy will prolly win it, unfortunently

crass
02-26-2007, 12:05 PM
^^ Don't forget Public Enemy. Not only they are mad important for hip-hop, they are also currently longest-living group - together since 1982.

Public Enemy is the greatest rap group of all time. even wu-tang holds no candle to their greatness. bomb squad did some of the best, densest production ever.

crass
02-26-2007, 12:06 PM
Public Enemy will prolly win it, unfortunently

what the fuck. 8O8O8O8O8O8O8O

Hayabusa
02-26-2007, 12:33 PM
De La Soul's Discographie pwns public enemys... 5 great albums 2 good albums

crass
02-26-2007, 12:34 PM
^^well that's a matter of personal taste, but Public Enemy is the more important group.

Hayabusa
02-26-2007, 12:42 PM
regardless of who wins ATCQ, De La, Wu, Gangstarr, Outkast, EPMD, Whodini, Run DMC,Geto Boys and Brand Nubian better get lots of love that episode. Since PE probably will win it runners ups better not be neglected. But idk...knowing MTV they'll give it to the overrated NWA.

TUCO
02-26-2007, 12:44 PM
any other MC's in PE that really make it a "group"???
dun think so

crass
02-26-2007, 12:45 PM
^^^pretty sure a "group" is anything that is more than one or two people. so since PE had an MC, a hype man, an amazing DJ, and a ridiculous production team, they're very much a group. i don't see your point, aside from revealing your desire to make a retarded comment.

TUCO
02-26-2007, 12:54 PM
yea but rap groups are almost always known as a collection of MC's

crass
02-26-2007, 12:57 PM
maybe, i see what you mean. but i think what makes PE a great group is that each person did their own thing and contributed something unique to the music.

Jet Set
02-26-2007, 01:03 PM
There's never no rational discussion in hiphop. This kind of shit never works.

Bis Fan
02-26-2007, 01:06 PM
THE WU


PERIOD!!!

I don't have MTV2 anymore though

*grabs tissue*

*blows*

UNCLE RUCKUS
02-26-2007, 01:13 PM
There's never no rational discussion in hiphop. This kind of shit never works.

True. That ladys eyes almost popped out of her head when your man said Outkasts first 3 werent all classics, I think Run DMC had more of an impact than any of the others, not saying they are the best though.

crass
02-26-2007, 01:14 PM
I think Run DMC had more of an impact than any of the others, not saying they are the best though.

necessary distinction to make.

tommytootone
02-26-2007, 02:06 PM
I think the wu should def win it! Watch some group like g unit wins that would mean mtv is a bunch of commerical lovers

tical2000
02-26-2007, 02:07 PM
DE LA SOUL is one of the all time greats......but anyone who says DE LA SOUL's discography "owns" PUBLIC ENEMIES is a moron

tical2000
02-26-2007, 02:10 PM
so far the list on ww.mtv.com goes

10. UGK
09. FUGEES
08. SALT N PEPPER

the next three are tomorrow

.....so far SALT AND PEPPER is the only real questionable one

Hayabusa
02-26-2007, 02:10 PM
Grandmaster flash and the furious five had more of an impact than Run DMC or just as big of an impact at worst :)...

Edgar Erebus
02-26-2007, 02:13 PM
yea but rap groups are almost always known as a collection of MC's


Yeah?
What about NWA? 3 MC's (4 with Dre) 2 producers?
Boogie Down Productions? 1 MC, at least ten DJ's?
Eric B & Rakim?
DJ Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince?
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo?
A Tribe Called Quest? 2 producers?

Until 92 every group had at least one DJ - non rapping member. Even more.
Until the phase "Everyone want to be a MC" s started.

^^^^Beastie Boys have been together longer though

Yeah, but they were a punk band at first, they started rapping in 1984.

mofo
02-26-2007, 02:15 PM
so far the list on ww.mtv.com goes

10. UGK
09. FUGEES
08. SALT N PEPPER

the next three are tomorrow

.....so far SALT AND PEPPER is the only real questionable one
I got a bad feeling for this list.

UNCLE RUCKUS
02-26-2007, 02:21 PM
Yeah?
What about NWA? 3 MC's (4 with Dre) 2 producers?
Boogie Down Productions? 1 MC, at least ten DJ's?
Eric B & Rakim?
DJ Jazzy Jeff & Fresh Prince?
Kool G Rap & DJ Polo?
A Tribe Called Quest? 2 producers?

Until 92 every group had at least one DJ - non rapping member. Even more.
Until the phase "Everyone want to be a MC" s started.



Yeah, but they were a punk band at first, they started rapping in 1984.

Yeah and Public Enemy were not Public Enemy in 1982 they were the Shocklees Spectrum SS and Chuck D was still just a radio dj they werent called PE til later

WuGambino
02-26-2007, 02:27 PM
Argh, it wont let me watch the viideo on wether the beastie boys should get in or not 'cause i dont live in the bloody US...

But I'm surprised Tribe haven't been mentioned more so far, and it's kinda cheating saying you need two Emcees to be counted and then counting Flava Flav as an emcee... I love PE and he's a great hypeman but PE only have one MC.

cap
02-26-2007, 03:04 PM
NWA is gonna take it.

and if d12 makes the list we should all riot!!

crass
02-26-2007, 03:40 PM
Yeah, but they were a punk band at first, they started rapping in 1984.

a fucking great punk band too.

Bedlam
02-26-2007, 06:14 PM
who do i think is the best? wu-tang obviously

but NWA will no doubt win. MTV has a love affair with NWA

rubyspirit
02-26-2007, 10:20 PM
Wu-Tang Clan !!!!!!!!!!!

WeMadeIt
02-26-2007, 10:22 PM
I saw a list in the background of the trailer. Public Enemy was #3, Wu-Tang at #5, and like...Salt 'n' Pepa at #8. maybe a hint to the final list.

Ozmosis
02-26-2007, 10:25 PM
is it the same people who choose jay-z greatest rapper of all time?

Ghost In The 'Lac
02-26-2007, 10:27 PM
First Thing This Will Be A Fucking Joke

Second how the fuck can these shitbrains put salt and pepper ion front of Fugees?

THIRD WU TANG ARE THE GREATEST MOST TALENTED MOST PROLIFIC MOST CREATIVE MOST INFLUENTIAL GROUP EVA MUTHERFUCKAS DONT FORGET THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Wu Tang
2. De La Soul
3. Furious Five
4. A Tribe Called Quest
5. Outkast
6. Mobb Deep (yes mobb deep this is true NY 90s hip hop blueprint)
7. Beastie Boys
8. Fugees
9. Fat Boys

And no I dont like Public Enemy or Run DMC SO WHAT,, if that was my era though im sure i wouldve thought they were the fucking shit.

WeMadeIt
02-26-2007, 10:31 PM
is it the same people who choose jay-z greatest rapper of all time?


Nah, Tupac was #1, Biggie #2. They asked rappers who was number 1, and Biggie won almost unanimously over Tupac but they changed the list around anyways and put Tupac at #1.

Alcryt
02-27-2007, 05:55 AM
It was jay-z
http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2006/emcees/index11.jhtml

Wu-Tality
02-27-2007, 06:46 AM
Kriss Kross will probably be #1

Jet Set
02-27-2007, 06:57 AM
True. That ladys eyes almost popped out of her head when your man said Outkasts first 3 werent all classics, I think Run DMC had more of an impact than any of the others, not saying they are the best though.
Exactly, besides that it's almost impossible to have a set or rules to determine who has more points. When has there ever been an unanymous opinion about how great an artist was.

This culture is based on a severe dosis of hate and love. Almost to the pint of a Shenmue/Star Trek-Star Wars affair. You hate him or you love him. Underground or mainstream.

Longbongcilvaringz
02-27-2007, 07:38 AM
i wonder if "greatest" means most influencial or best group, or both?

Alcryt
02-27-2007, 08:45 AM
7. EPMD
6. ATCQ

Top 5 tomorrow...

*hopes wu are #1*

Dokuro
02-27-2007, 11:01 AM
the wu tang is number one but knowing MTV it will probably be BME click (lil johns group)

tical2000
02-27-2007, 02:45 PM
wow they MTV put A TRIBE CALLED QUEST at #6......to be honest I think A TRIBE CALLED QUEST would be top 3 if not number 1.......now I am kinda suspect who they are going to put ahead of them

Gawd
02-27-2007, 02:50 PM
does there even need to be a debate? if they dont give it too wu tang its because they feel they need to honor run dmc for the one millionth time.

Sean
02-27-2007, 04:01 PM
How annoying would it be if it turned out to be G-Unit?

Anyway I think its obvious that Wu should win but I bet it will go to Run DMC, Public Enemy or NWA.

Gawd
02-27-2007, 04:02 PM
again....groups they feel the need to congratulate for the millionth time.

Jeru
02-27-2007, 04:17 PM
It wont be Wu.It'll prolly be a trendsetting hiphopgroup from the 80's

Esquire
02-27-2007, 04:21 PM
How annoying would it be if it turned out to be G-Unit?

Anyway I think its obvious that Wu should win but I bet it will go to Run DMC, Public Enemy or NWA.

If it were G-Unit i would put a bullet in my brain.

WuBanga36
02-27-2007, 06:15 PM
Might be P.E.

Alcryt
02-28-2007, 05:58 AM
Wu Tang 5th!? guess thats the best you can expect from mtv..
Outkast 4th...

does there even need to be a debate? if they dont give it too wu tang its because they feel they need to honor run dmc for the one millionth time.

co-sign

RynMur
02-28-2007, 01:11 PM
Fuck MTV! What now they're supporting true hip hop.

Dokuro
02-28-2007, 01:14 PM
does there even need to be a debate? if they dont give it too wu tang its because they feel they need to honor run dmc for the one millionth time.

If it were G-Unit i would put a bullet in my brain.



Chuchhttp://m-w.com/images/audio.gif (http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?church01.wav=church)

Edgar Erebus
02-28-2007, 01:27 PM
1. Wu Tang
2. De La Soul
3. Furious Five
4. A Tribe Called Quest
5. Outkast
6. Mobb Deep (yes mobb deep this is true NY 90s hip hop blueprint)
7. Beastie Boys
8. Fugees
9. Fat Boys

And no I dont like Public Enemy or Run DMC SO WHAT,, if that was my era though im sure i wouldve thought they were the fucking shit.

Your post is as bullshit as your list. Any list that ain't got Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest and Run-DMC and NWA AND Wu-Tang Clan is straight bullshit, cause these are only groups that changed the game. Don't forget that, cause you only put one of them in the list.

Be serious man, what the fuck did Mobb Deep do to the game? They put one classic, one extremely hot and five aight - to - mediocre albums. NY 90s blueprint is again blueprint made by Wu-Tang, as Wu invented that dark shit Havoc followed.

WuGambino
02-28-2007, 01:59 PM
Your post is as bullshit as your list. Any list that ain't got Public Enemy and A Tribe Called Quest and Run-DMC and NWA AND Wu-Tang Clan is straight bullshit, cause these are only groups that changed the game. Don't forget that, cause you only put one of them in the list.

Be serious man, what the fuck did Mobb Deep do to the game? They put one classic, one extremely hot and five aight - to - mediocre albums. NY 90s blueprint is again blueprint made by Wu-Tang, as Wu invented that dark shit Havoc followed.
You forgot the Beastie Boys.

And N.W.A. are way overrated.

tical2000
02-28-2007, 03:34 PM
so MTV put:

5)WU TANG CLAN
4)OUTKAST

not to sure about this, sure I think WU TANG should be Number 1, I think MTV are not taking the WU's solo albums into account though, if you watch the argument video on mtv.com, even though the early classic WU solo albums play like WU albums....my question is, who are going to be in the top 3 if WU, OUTKAST, and a tribe called quest are not:

I am guessing RUN DMC, BEASTIE BOYS, NWA, or PUBLIC ENEMY......but
wait a second there are only three spots left......so that means one of these legendary groups are not going to make it......how the fuck can this be when SALT AND PEPPER is on the list????

HANZO
02-28-2007, 03:40 PM
mtv is bullshit no need to take anything it says about rap seriously. how can outkast be on top of the wu doesnt make sense.

Severe Punishment
02-28-2007, 03:42 PM
You right, i agree with you that RUN DMC, Beastie Boys, NWA and Public enemy should be in the list. But don't forget that Salt And Pepper also were there in the beginning, i mean they were on the first episode of Yo MTV raps i believe ... But just like you said, RUN DMC, BB, NWA and PE should be in the list!!

mofo
02-28-2007, 03:48 PM
I bet you they put Salt n Pepper on that list because they "Paved the way for Female rappers". Bullshit, they can give me a blowjob for all i'm concerned.

tommytootone
02-28-2007, 03:59 PM
Yeah how can salt and pepper be on there. Their not that good and Wu 5th behind outKast. thats wackkkkkkkkkkk!!!

Edgar Erebus
02-28-2007, 04:07 PM
Yo I'ma make our poll for 10 greatest groups of all time, like I did when MTV did that bullshit with 10 greatest rap albums.

Edgar Erebus
02-28-2007, 04:08 PM
http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/

Kenny Powers
02-28-2007, 04:08 PM
wu tang revolutionized hip hop and changed it forever. How many other groups did that, P.E maybe?

Edgar Erebus
02-28-2007, 04:19 PM
wu tang revolutionized hip hop and changed it forever. How many other groups did that, P.E maybe?

Yeah, PE - fathers of politically conscious, pro-Black rap

NWA fo sho - people think it's overrated but gangsta rap still didn't get past them

A Tribe Called Quest did change - brought in style that created, among others, Premo and Nas

Run DMC for sure, it's the group that created hip-hop as we know today

WuGambino
02-28-2007, 05:38 PM
Co-Signer: Ice Cube
"When I first heard them, they had a new style. It was a style that people kinda attributed to Rakim [who was also from Long Island], but to me their music was a lot funkier. When I think of EPMD, I think of beats — I think of the ultimate beats, and they had 'em. They had some of the best beats that money could buy. The first three albums — it's hard to find better beats in that era. Them dudes was just known for having everything an MC needs. My favorite EPMD song? Oh my God ... 'You Gots to Chill.' When they dropped that, that's what did it for us out here in the West because they was using [Zapp's] 'More Bounce to the Ounce,' and it was just fire. I got a chance to know them dudes through the industry and I'm good friends with Erick Sermon, so it's cool to see they on the list too."


N.W.A. are definately on the list... I think its easily gonna be the Beastie Boys who are omitted out of the four big groups left, they were even having some debate about wether the BB should get in or sumthn.

Sean
02-28-2007, 05:40 PM
Shit... Outkast above Wu Tang, MTV are fucking retards. I think the last 3 will be Run DMC, PE and NWA.

THE W
02-28-2007, 06:30 PM
Shit... Outkast above Wu Tang, MTV are fucking retards. I think the last 3 will be Run DMC, PE and NWA.
totally agree,

putting outkast over wu is on some bullshit straight up and down. they made hardly any impact on hiphop if any at all. they had some critically acclaimed albums that had a lot of commercial success, thats it.

they should not have been in the top 5. sixth...cool.

xHard to Earnx
02-28-2007, 06:39 PM
Outkast make better records as a group than Wu has.


If you think otherwise, you're insane.

Gawd
02-28-2007, 06:39 PM
MTV are fucking retards. I think the last 3 will be Run DMC, PE and NWA.

10 years from now they will still be talking about these groups. they always do.

THE W
02-28-2007, 06:42 PM
Outkast make better records as a group than Wu has.


If you think otherwise, you're insane.
whats better than what is totally subjective dude.

we're talking about "greatness". impact, influence, recognition..which wu-tang clan has in spades over outkast.

EDIT: i just watched the video where they were debating whether outkast should be over tribe called quest and i was DISGUSTED!

i seriously wanted to punch that chic in her mouth after that shit. her and this other arab dude kept going on about record sales. and then that crazy broad said something stupid like "the only group that people know about today is outkast". OF COURSE PEOPLE WHO DONT KNOW SHIT ABOUT THE HISTORY OF HIPHOP MUSIC ARENT GONNA KNOW A LOT OF THOSE GROUPS! they even all agreed that tribe influenced what outkast did.

the fact that they favored soundscans over actual impact on hiphop in these situations is pathetic. SMH.

xHard to Earnx
02-28-2007, 07:42 PM
Let's just go by critical consensus.

Wu as a group has ONE crucial album. Wu-Tang Forever is bulky, and really not much at all. No one cares about anything after that.

Most Outkast albums are considered full-on classics at this point.


I don't even listen to Outkast and I can accept this.

EAGLE EYE
02-28-2007, 07:53 PM
Let's just go by critical consensus.

Wu as a group has ONE crucial album. Wu-Tang Forever is bulky, and really not much at all. No one cares about anything after that.

Most Outkast albums are considered full-on classics at this point.


I don't even listen to Outkast and I can accept this.

full-on classics hahahahahahahahhahahahahahah


youre such an herb

xHard to Earnx
02-28-2007, 07:58 PM
Well, that's what MTV calls them.

THE W
02-28-2007, 07:59 PM
i did say that they had critical acclaim(as much as i personally found those albums rather unimpressive) and commercial success. dispite these things outkast wasnt a movement, they didnt change the game.

wu-tang cant touch outkast on soundscans(not many hiphop groups can) or critical acclaim(not many hiphop groups can in this area either), but the mark they left on the game is way bigger than that of outkast. WAY bigger(a lot of hiphop groups are).

THE W
02-28-2007, 08:00 PM
Well, that's what MTV calls them.
MTV has wu-tang forever as an "undeniable classic".

even i disagree with that.

EDIT: MTV has all of outkasts albums as "undeniable classic" except for idlewild. the first 3 are probably legit, the last 2 are not.

cap
02-28-2007, 08:31 PM
wow,the wu at no.5??
thats shocking,and they're not even gonna have bone thugs on there but they have ugk??wtf??

mofo
02-28-2007, 08:33 PM
That was depressing. That bitch had a big mouth OMG THE KIDS DON'T KNOW ANYBODY ON THAT LIST SO THEY GET IN AUTOMATICALLYYYYYYY THINK BOUT THE KIDS. That bitch betta recognize that that's a big boy list not no nick jr shit. Bitch should put use to that big mouth and suck some dick. She was the biggest Outkast dickrider ever, it was annoying. She got all serious and shit once they said to move Outkast down thinking Outkast will pay her bills after that shit. What a fuckin groupie.

tical2000
03-01-2007, 12:20 AM
I have no problem with OUTKAST being ahead of the WU.......MTV based it off group albums and did not take the early WU solo albums into account in there decision......If you just look at the group albums outkast's first 4 albums are classics compared too WU TANG's two classic group albums 36 chambers and FOREVER

....my problem is that WU TANG should have been at least in the top 3 spots.....

I honestly dont know how SALT AND PEPPER made the list instead of MOBB DEEP......even UGK should be behind MOBB DEEP......like who the fuck would throw on a SALT and PEPPER record today???? that shit did not age well at all and is garbage

g_flex
03-01-2007, 12:32 AM
salt n pepa...for whut d fuck?..body beautiful?....fuck mtv n hitz fm too..outkast is #4 n wu at #5..lol...

tical2000
03-01-2007, 12:35 AM
So here is MTV's final list:

10) UGK
09) Fugees
08) Salt n pepper
07) Epmd
06) A Tribe Called Quest
05) Wu Tang Clan
04) Outkast
03) Public Enemy
02) Nwa
01) Run DMC

not that bad of a list, I dont agree with some placements though, but how the "FUCK" can SALT N PEPPER be on the list instead of the BEASTIE BOYS or MOBB DEEP???? makes no fuckin sense, like I think almost anyone on the planet would rather listen to PAULS BOUTIQUE or THE INFAMOUS over any of there watered down pop shit

Hillside Bammas
03-01-2007, 01:07 AM
wu at 5? lol!

11th Chamber
03-01-2007, 01:25 AM
No Bone Thugs???

chiba
03-01-2007, 01:46 AM
a very difficult thing to call
they are all great groups !!!
they are all different and are the measuring stick(s) of the bizz


for real gangstarr, mobb deep, the roots, de la soul, beastie boys etc?

it coulda been worse....Gunit, Diplomats, Ying Yang Twins etc :lmao:

g_flex
03-01-2007, 02:33 AM
Onyx is missing..they dropped 3 solid superb albums..wat bt cypress hill n naughty by nature...not too sure abt fugees epmd n u ugk making d list

cap
03-01-2007, 08:56 AM
i still think they should've had onyx on there!!
if it wasnt for the south being as big as it is right now,nobody would've mentioned ugk.

Hayabusa
03-01-2007, 10:02 AM
UGK has more great albums than Onyx has good albums. They wasn't the Underground Kingz of Texas for nothin...Hell i'd take Goodie Mob 2 best albums over Onyx 3 best...

cap
03-01-2007, 10:22 AM
UGK has more great albums than Onyx has good albums. They wasn't the Underground Kingz of Texas for nothin...Hell i'd take Goodie Mob 2 best albums over Onyx 3 best...

i respect your opinion,but i also see your from mississippi so you're definitey biased as well.

cap
03-01-2007, 10:23 AM
also,i think next year they're gonna rate the best producers...

TAURO
03-01-2007, 10:51 AM
who gives a shit about "mtv's" opinion, they lost my respect years ago, I don't give a shit what they say, my opinion to myself is what matters.

UNCLE RUCKUS
03-01-2007, 11:58 AM
mtv is so far up its own asshole Run DMC would never be number one if they hadnt made that joint with Aerosmith Fucking bullshit their always trying to put themselves in the history books. They didnt play a video of a black artist until 1984! And these are the same faggots that took the "By the Time I Get To ARizona" video off rotation the moment they caught some heat Fuck their opinion.

Alcryt
03-01-2007, 12:48 PM
Im not really going to get bothered about a list mtv comes up with.
Hip hop fans know whats good and what deserves to be on the list etc
Its not going to change anyones opinions and its not exactly an 'Official' list.

Besides im starting to hate lists in general, no one ever agress on any list and i doubt anyones going to have an argument with someone and say for example:
Outkast are better than Wu Tang cause they were ranked higher on mtvs list ha!!

snapple
03-01-2007, 12:59 PM
wow are people seriously trying to diss run DMC on this site...

tical2000
03-01-2007, 02:40 PM
wow are people seriously trying to diss run DMC on this site...


haha that what i was just thinking too.....

....I dont really see what the big deal is with MTV's list, I think it is a reasonable list, besides SALT N PEPPER making it instead of the BEASTIE BOYS, MOBB DEEP, THE ROOTS, etc.......but overall it is pretty reasonable, I would have most of these groups on my list, maybe in different order though....

so some of you need to chill out

some of you retards are crying cause RUN DMC are #1, like those cats are legends and are the reason why rap music becaem what it is.......

also anyone who cries about RUN DMC being on the list and suggests fuckin ONYX or BONE THUGS N HARMONY being in the top 10 is a fuckin moron

Gawd
03-01-2007, 02:44 PM
mtv is so far up its own asshole Run DMC would never be number one if they hadnt made that joint with Aerosmith Fucking bullshit their always trying to put themselves in the history books. They didnt play a video of a black artist until 1984! And these are the same faggots that took the "By the Time I Get To ARizona" video off rotation the moment they caught some heat Fuck their opinion.


we agree. omg

UNCLE RUCKUS
03-01-2007, 02:44 PM
:nonono: wow are people seriously trying to diss run DMC on this site...

no. You misunderstood me I was dissing MTV if you read my previous post were I said Run DMC should win, I am suspicious of why they voted for them but I would not diss Run DMC they are one of the all time greats

Gawd
03-01-2007, 02:46 PM
rundmc isnt being dissed we have all just recognized that they get over recognized all the time in any hiphop documentary or show or top 10 on mtv.

whats the point of even watching you know run dmc is gonna win.

cap
03-01-2007, 02:58 PM
also anyone who cries about RUN DMC being on the list and suggests fuckin ONYX or BONE THUGS N HARMONY being in the top 10 is a fuckin moron

ok,i dont know if you were talking about me (since i mentioned both onyx & BTNH)

i would just like to clarify i wouldnt swap any of them with run dmc,i was just saying they deserved to be on there.
maybe instead of salt-n-peppa or UGK.

Edgar Erebus
03-01-2007, 03:41 PM
MTV has wu-tang forever as an "undeniable classic".

even i disagree with that.

EDIT: MTV has all of outkasts albums as "undeniable classic" except for idlewild. the first 3 are probably legit, the last 2 are not.

OutKasts "undeniable classics" are ONLY Aquemini and Stankonia - SPCM was quite standard and ATLiens is too sleepy.

Bout Wu-Tang Forever - as I said many times, if it was held on one disc of extremely good quality it would be number one album of all times. But they wanted to make a hip-hop epic and I respect that.

No rap group ever holds more that 3 undeniable classics - and that's only PE: "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back", "Fear of a Black Planet" and "Apocalypse 91". That's why I'd put PE as No. 1 - not only it has as big influence on the game as Wu or NWA, it also has biggest amount of classics.

Edgar Erebus
03-01-2007, 03:44 PM
Salt N Pepa and UGK don't fit in that list. It's politics, if they didn't put UGK southern cats would uprise (as they did when the didn't put no southern album on list of 10 biggest albums), if they didn't put Salt N Pepa females would get angry.

Edgar Erebus
03-01-2007, 03:48 PM
Are you furious that a group you love didn't make the top 10? Tell us all about it in You Tell Us, and check back on Monday to see if they got some love in Honorable Mention ...

That's what they say. Tell them all and spill your hate.

xHard to Earnx
03-01-2007, 05:19 PM
Do some of you not realize how important Run-DMC were?

WuGambino
03-01-2007, 05:31 PM
Do some of you not realize how important Run-DMC were?
It's not just about importance though, personal tastes come into it.
If you asked me they'd be number 3, I think thats high enough.

T4R1K
03-01-2007, 05:42 PM
check www.mtv.com (http://www.mtv.com) check the video. they made a top 10 list....wu tang 3rd place

Paranoid
03-01-2007, 07:03 PM
boot camp clik...

jurassic 5(Why the fuck are they not on the list)...

pete rock & cl...

gangstarr...

naughty by nature...

bone thugs & onyx are definately necessary because of their unique styles noone sounded like them

im sure i could think of more that they neglected

cap
03-01-2007, 07:11 PM
well a group had to have more than one mc,thats why groups like gangstarr & the roots couldnt qualify.

abasi
03-01-2007, 08:13 PM
The list is called The Greatest Hip Hop Group so it means greatest impact on Hip Hop I would think so Run Dmc wins hands down.

If it was called favorite group I think album sales would come into play and that is not a good way to judge.

As far as the groups on the list I have no problem with most of them. I don't think Salt n Pepper should be on that list. I wonder why they are on the list is it because they are pioneers,if so then The Beastie Boys should be on there also.

We all have our favorites and half the groups on that list wouldn't make my list
The group albums that I have in my collection are:

Wu of course
NWA
Lench Mobb
Black Sheep
Flip Mode
EPMD
Bone Thugs
OutKast
Geto Boys
And some others I can't think of right now

I have singles and videos of some of the groups on the MTV list and I have to agree that many of them changed and formed hip hop. And they should be on the Greatest Hip Hop Group list

xHard to Earnx
03-01-2007, 09:52 PM
jurassic 5(Why the fuck are they not on the list)...


Because they suck(ed).

Bedlam
03-02-2007, 01:34 AM
I don't like Run DMC at 1. Yeah they were the first big rap group, blah blah, history, importance etc, etc. I dont really give a shit, thier music is terrible by nowadays standards. And that has an effect on how I rate a group.

TAURO
03-02-2007, 07:30 AM
Run DMC has always been mtv's favourate group, I was not suprised by this decision at all.

As for the list I do think it's fine, just in the wrong order, also while I do like Salt n Pepper I do agree that they should not have been on that list over groups like the Beastie Boys.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
03-02-2007, 08:56 AM
we knew that its going to be a bit stupid at the end cuz MTV wuz doing the list...no BB, but Salt'n'Pepa...

would like to see were would De La Soul, Gravediggaz, Gangstarr, Eric B. & Rakim come...

abasi
03-02-2007, 09:22 AM
I don't like Run DMC at 1. Yeah they were the first big rap group, blah blah, history, importance etc, etc. I dont really give a shit, thier music is terrible by nowadays standards. And that has an effect on how I rate a group.


i hear you on that

cap
03-02-2007, 09:52 AM
we knew that its going to be a bit stupid at the end cuz MTV wuz doing the list...no BB, but Salt'n'Pepa...

would like to see were would De La Soul, Gravediggaz, Gangstarr, Eric B. & Rakim come...

again my man,groups like gangstarr,eric b & rakim,the roots...couldnt qualify cus a group had to have more than one mc.

snapple
03-02-2007, 01:28 PM
son said run-dmc is over-recognized! how many classics? movies? clothing? i wonder where hiphop would be without RUNDMC.... their music is terrible? what....yo this is not a hiphop site haha if run DMC is terrible whatsgood?

Bedlam
03-02-2007, 01:56 PM
son said run-dmc is over-recognized! how many classics? movies? clothing? i wonder where hiphop would be without RUNDMC.... their music is terrible? what....yo this is not a hiphop site haha if run DMC is terrible whatsgood?

For someone that didn't grow up listening to Run DMC, to go back and try and listen to their shit, I find it hard to enjoy. You might like it because you grew up with it, but for me, its not good. I can listen to other 80's rap and enjoy it, like Rakim or Big Daddy Kane, but I don't find Run DMC to be very good. That's all I'm saying, I'm not saying anything against thier impact or whatever. Do you listen to Run DMC regularly? Probably not.

Hayabusa
03-02-2007, 04:49 PM
i respect your opinion,but i also see your from mississippi so you're definitey biased as well.

How am I biased because i'm from the south? LOL all i listen to is east coast... my top 5 fav emcees is common, mos def, redman, ghostface, and del the funkee homosapien. my top 5 fav groups is Wu, herioglyphics,de la soul, ATCQ, and poor righteous teachers. i got a whole 250 disc CD book dedicated to the east coast and all of onyx albums is in it. Just on a lyrical and musical vibe I feel goodie mob more. Soul Food is that shit. I'm probably one of the most diverse hip hop listeners on the site. hell right now I got living legends playin on the ipod. and A Tribe Called Quest playin in the whip.:satisfy:

RagnaroK
03-02-2007, 06:05 PM
first those people suck except sway
secondly people say without run nobody will be like if they didn't exist somebody else wouldn't have come and do what they did (cuz what they did was inevitable if they didn't somebody else would) thirdly they didn't even argue with wu they just change it like it was nothing moving outkast what a bunch of bitches they are fourthly some didn't even talk so this show is a good idea turn crap

Tito
03-02-2007, 06:17 PM
U Guys Are Really Insane ,, U All Need Some Fresh Air Like Me ..

xHard to Earnx
03-02-2007, 06:37 PM
For someone that didn't grow up listening to Run DMC, to go back and try and listen to their shit, I find it hard to enjoy. You might like it because you grew up with it, but for me, its not good. I can listen to other 80's rap and enjoy it, like Rakim or Big Daddy Kane, but I don't find Run DMC to be very good. That's all I'm saying, I'm not saying anything against thier impact or whatever. Do you listen to Run DMC regularly? Probably not.

WHAT IN THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?



Have you not heard Raising Hell? Or how about the hardest song ever in the form of Down With the King?

Gawd
03-02-2007, 07:30 PM
run dmc always wins. the lists are always the same. why even film new list shows just so the same 5 groups/artsist win?

CITY ZEEKER
03-02-2007, 08:23 PM
its MTV... wat made u doods think that there would be a list that the whole world could agree on??

THE W
03-02-2007, 08:30 PM
you're not gonna get a list that everyone will agree on no matter who's making it.

they did a pretty good job with it. wu should have been 4th and SNP shouldve been replaced with beastie boys and the fugees with de la soul.

overall, they did a good job.

EDIT: you guys gotta go check out some of the comments about the top ten list. you may get a good laugh.

one person said the LOX should be in the top ten and another person who im pretty sure was a chic had kriss kross and kid n play in the top ten over wu-tang clan.

UN...BE..LIEVABLE!!

xHard to Earnx
03-02-2007, 08:51 PM
Yeah, because sex is a serious issue in opinion here.

x7fifteen4
03-02-2007, 09:25 PM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33865

THE W
03-02-2007, 10:44 PM
Yeah, because sex is a serious issue in opinion here.
that, or the name of the poster was "emeka". i could be wrong but that sounds like a girls name to me.

xHard to Earnx
03-03-2007, 08:45 AM
Who fucking cares if it's a female?

LORD ZERO
03-03-2007, 01:46 PM
So here is MTV's final list:

10) UGK
09) Fugees
08) Salt n pepper
07) Epmd
06) A Tribe Called Quest
05) Wu Tang Clan
04) Outkast
03) Public Enemy
02) Nwa
01) Run DMC

not that bad of a list, I dont agree with some placements though, but how the "FUCK" can SALT N PEPPER be on the list instead of the BEASTIE BOYS or MOBB DEEP???? makes no fuckin sense, like I think almost anyone on the planet would rather listen to PAULS BOUTIQUE or THE INFAMOUS over any of there watered down pop shit

how ugk even begun to make it on this list escapes me.....not to mention salt n pepa.......but then again.......its mtv

RagnaroK
03-03-2007, 10:37 PM
being fair Wu is the best there is to me but there are only few crew that i would let before Wu they are Public Enemy NWA(not that much) Run DMC(even thou i think what they did would have happen sooner or later with anybody, they brought the world into hip hop and thats deserve respect but not as much as mtv do putting them #1 on every list about hip hop)


Wu clearly deserve a 4 place they didn't even discuss about their influence on hip hop

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
03-03-2007, 11:09 PM
smh @ salt n pepper and nwa best shit come form them after they split

Richard Nixon
03-04-2007, 03:36 PM
That was retarded putting Outkast above Wu Tang, who gives a fuck about album sales and popularity nowadays..36 Chambers and Forever were so revolutionary and groundbreaking that they should at least have been number 3 on that dumb list

oh yea, and thats fucked up not having bone thugs on there


peace

The_SZAs
03-04-2007, 04:05 PM
this is why i boycott MTV.

Wu-Set
03-04-2007, 09:31 PM
yeah i was thinking like man how are u gonna have outkast and ugk and not geto boys? and putting nwa above PE and putting Nwa over wu? and outkast over WU?

whitey
03-05-2007, 05:45 PM
. They didnt play a video of a black artist until 1984!

in all fairness they only got on the air in 1981 and its not like rap was that big back then.


but for the most part that list is ok. but definatly should have encludded the beastie boys and mobb deep with some others like goodie mobb, de la soul, cypress hill or some others.

TAURO
03-05-2007, 06:53 PM
Instead of a top ten they should have had a top 20, at least this way we would have seen more of the artists people have been mentioning.

Ghost In The 'Lac
03-05-2007, 09:43 PM
MTV trying to further their mission of surpressing real hip hop to the US audience. 5th place was the lowest possible place they couldve legally put the Wu.

But to put groups like NWA ahead of them was just plain disrepectful.

The Wu did never have a MTV song, they made the list purely on which group had the most famous song on MTV.

RUN DMC - the aerosmith song
P.E - fight the power
Salt and Pepper - "salt and peppers here blah blah blha" cant remember the name
NWA - straight outta compton
ATCQ - even they had can i kick it - without this song they would not of made the list
Fugees - Ready or Not and Killing me softly, again, they would of been ignored without these pop friendly tunes
Outkast - Ms Jackson
EPMD - idont know why they are there, probably cus they made more party happy songs, unlike groups like Mobb Deep who should be there who are far to real 4 MTV
UGK - politics 4 the south


So the WU had non of these, but they couldnt stay off the list because everyone knows that in the real world they are the number 1 group of all time.

5th













5th!






5th!!!



smh. Fucking MTV. What even gives them the belief they have the right anymore to make this sort of judgement?

tical2000
03-05-2007, 10:29 PM
MTV trying to further their mission of surpressing real hip hop to the US audience. 5th place was the lowest possible place they couldve legally put the Wu.

But to put groups like NWA ahead of them was just plain disrepectful.

The Wu did never have a MTV song, they made the list purely on which group had the most famous song on MTV.

RUN DMC - the aerosmith song
P.E - fight the power
Salt and Pepper - "salt and peppers here blah blah blha" cant remember the name
NWA - straight outta compton
ATCQ - even they had can i kick it - without this song they would not of made the list
Fugees - Ready or Not and Killing me softly, again, they would of been ignored without these pop friendly tunes
Outkast - Ms Jackson
EPMD - idont know why they are there, probably cus they made more party happy songs, unlike groups like Mobb Deep who should be there who are far to real 4 MTV
UGK - politics 4 the south


So the WU had non of these, but they couldnt stay off the list because everyone knows that in the real world they are the number 1 group of all time.

5th













5th!






5th!!!



smh. Fucking MTV. What even gives them the belief they have the right anymore to make this sort of judgement?

You sound like a whiny bitch....I have no problem with those groups on the MTV list, besides SALT N PEPPER....sure I maybe would have had THE ROOTS or MOBB DEEP or BEASTIE BOYS on there instead of UGK or SALT N PEPPER, and had WU at number 1

....but come on now, its not that bad of a list, I think it is fair and that you are overreacting BIG TIME

and judging by your analysis of the groups, you sound like you got into hip hop 2 months ago

Ghost In The 'Lac
03-05-2007, 10:43 PM
but come on now, its not that bad of a list, I think it is fair and that you are overreacting BIG TIME

and judging by your analysis of the groups, you sound like you got into hip hop 2 months ago


Ha



yeah its not BAD if it hadnt of been in any particular order, but as it is, its a fucking shit stain of a list, anyone who says its acceptable that the Wu could be 5 on a list behind NWA is totally underappreciating their creativity impact and role in hip hop progression.

my "analysis of the groups" wasnt even that, thats not what I think of those groups, its my reason as to why they are in the list.

Visionz
03-05-2007, 11:05 PM
How am I biased because i'm from the south? LOL all i listen to is east coast... my top 5 fav emcees is common, mos def, redman, ghostface, and del the funkee homosapien. my top 5 fav groups is Wu, herioglyphics,de la soul, ATCQ, and poor righteous teachers. i got a whole 250 disc CD book dedicated to the east coast and all of onyx albums is in it. Just on a lyrical and musical vibe I feel goodie mob more. Soul Food is that shit. I'm probably one of the most diverse hip hop listeners on the site. hell right now I got living legends playin on the ipod. and A Tribe Called Quest playin in the whip.:satisfy:just so you know, Del's from out west, Bay-area

Visionz
03-05-2007, 11:30 PM
That was retarded putting Outkast above Wu Tang, who gives a fuck about album sales and popularity nowadays..36 Chambers and Forever were so revolutionary and groundbreaking that they should at least have been number 3 on that dumb list

oh yea, and thats fucked up not having bone thugs on there


peaceI'm not saying Outkast should've been past Wu but they should be right up there. Afterall they really put the entire South on the map. You had others before 'em of course but they took it national in a way thats never been done before. In all respect, Wu-tang did the same thing. Everybody rockin the W on absolutely everything. Lookin at today's kids and what they listen to and think they represent {:( damn shame compared to my generation

yeah i was thinking like man how are u gonna have outkast and ugk and not geto boys? and putting nwa above PE and putting Nwa over wu? and outkast over WU? Geto boys and ugk are a toss up but the Getoboys did come first and in list like these influence should count for something. Can't say which is more important though, influence or amount of quality material. Personally, I think quality should matter more than the influence, if only by a little. In that aspect, Wu and the solo work that came from it blows 'all else away, its not even debateable. The list should be re-ordered, and the Beastie Boys should replace S 'P, Bone is another group should be in there.

Bedlam
03-05-2007, 11:54 PM
Bone had one classic album though, the rest were good to below average. I wouldn't put them on there

chiba
03-06-2007, 12:14 AM
DE LA SOUL, CYPRESS HILL, GHETTO BOYS, MOBB DEEP, BEASTIE BOYS, BRAND NUBIAN should be up there

BRAND NUBIAN = SADAT X GRAND PUBA AND LORD JAMAR
3 great mcs

AND WHERES BOOT CAMP CLICK!!!!!!!

i also think Beatnuts, Alkaholiks, and Afrika Bambatta should be up there as well coz they done alot in the hip hop game locally and internationally

Gravediggaz put out some solid albums
i like bone thugs but i like gravediggaz better coz of their lyrical content
and production by prince paul and rza (im not sayin bone thugs suck, they have thier own unique style, easy e wouldve been proud of dem)
but in terms of popularity and more platinum albums BTH takes the cake

sadly gravediggaz only went gold!!

i dont think UGK should be in the top ten
salt n peppa are just there to represent the female group (eventhough lauren hill kills them)

i think outkast are one of the most versatile groups they can do hip hop/pop/old school (ex. i like the way you move) / crunk etc
all of thier albums have gone platinum

how about DITC??

i dunno why they would put the rule of more than 1 member in order to be a group
roots and gangstar shouldnt be cut out for such a reason

peace

Visionz
03-06-2007, 12:18 AM
Did SnP have any classic albums? I know they had a couple real big hits but I just really don't know when it comes whole albums?, I never really paid attention to 'em.

For me Bone gets style points but they're quite a few bands you could name that would have a right to take they're place I'm sure. These kinds of list are never without debate, but that kinda the point I guess, even if I never watch MTV, here we are talkin bout it.

1. Wu-Tang
2. PE
3. Run-DMC
4. ATCQ
5. Outkast.........these two could be flipped around..bout' equal but Tribe did it 1st
6.Beastie Boys
7.the Hiroglyphics (sp??)
8.Getoboys
9.Mobb deep
10. Blackstar

chiba
03-06-2007, 01:12 AM
10. Blackstar

i dont consider them a group really
they are the dream team mighty mos and talib
they seem more of a collabo
thats like sayin meth and redman are a group

im not knokin your selection or anything like that
im sure alot of ppl consider them a group and alot of ppl dont consider them a group

:spin:

peace

Visionz
03-06-2007, 01:17 AM
^I know man, that record though, kicked off a one-man movement within myself nawmean, lol plus they came out together before any of the solo work. I did put it in there mainly cuz its a personal favorite.Really wish that comet would come back round again.......edit...V no doubt homie :b

chiba
03-06-2007, 01:32 AM
^ its all good meng
they also one of my favs
waitin on thier second album!!!!!!!


:beer: :beer:
peace

Ghost In The 'Lac
03-06-2007, 10:38 AM
For them also to leave out De La Soul after what 3 feet high did for hip hop is a fuckign disgrace for a music station, they dont KNOW SHIT!

the production style on 3 feet high was the blueprint for all modern day rap after that, dumbasses

Hayabusa
03-06-2007, 01:32 PM
just so you know, Del's from out west, Bay-area

Errr I know that... I was just using him and his group as an example of my diverse taste in hip hop... Big ups to the Living Legends too for holdin the yay down...Sucks that hyphy is giving that area a bad name.

Hayabusa
03-06-2007, 01:38 PM
My top 10 groups= 1. Wu-Tang 2. De La Soul 3. ATCQ 4. Heiroglyhics 5. Gangstarr 6. PE 7. Geto Boys 8. Outkast 9. The Roots 10. Brand Nubian Honrable Mention: Poor Righteous Teachers,(probably 10b to brand nubian) Run DMC(not really my style or else they would of made my top 5), Grandmaster Flash & Furious 5, UGK, S.U.C., Three 6, Black Star(would of been in top 3 if they had more than one album), Bone, EPMD (were'nt lyrial enough for my taste), Organized Konfusion(probably #12 on my list)

tical2000
03-06-2007, 02:36 PM
Yo MTV just put up there honorable mentions: from www.mtv.com (http://www.mtv.com)

If there were only 10 great hip-hop groups, we wouldn't be arguing about who they are. Here are some collectives that, while not top 10 for the entire brain trust, certainly are in some of our hearts.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/2livecrew.jpg2 Live Crew
These beastie boys from South Florida literally had to fight for their right to party — the case over whether or not their 1989 LP, As Nasty as They Wanna Be, was legally obscene went all the way to the Supreme Court. We can't really call Luke Campbell and his fun-loving, boot-knocking collective martyrs, but they did take the weight when the powers-that-be tried to stifle hip-hop's freedom of expression. The Crew were also pioneers of the Miami bass sound, which we know helped inspire crunk. Luke and his crew might not be the world's greatest MCs, but they put on quite an interesting live show.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/8ball.jpg8Ball and MJG
Former Suave House Records CEO Tony Draper will tell you that the independent rap hustle was sweet back in the day: His franchise artists, 8Ball and MJG, pushed major units in the '90s with little marketing but plenty word of mouth. Ball and MJG climbed the ranks to become Southern legends by not conforming to what was hot, but by staying true to their experiences in the ghettos.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/beasties.jpgBeastie Boys
Who would have thought that the three poster kids for keg parties would turn out to be hip-hop's big humanitarians in their more mature years? The Beasties came out with a bang — opening Madonna's Like a Virgin tour in 1985 before they even had an album out; touring with Whodini and LL Cool J on Run-DMC's Raising Hell trek; and having then-little-known Public Enemy open for them when they toured in support of 1987's massive-selling License to Ill. The group also managed to recover from the overkill of its early years, reinventing its sound with the sample-crammed Paul's Boutique (produced by the Dust Brothers, who'd later play a similar role on Beck's Odelay) and getting into old-school funk throughout the '90s. Still, the Beasties' role in the thriving NYC hip-hop scene of the '80s can't be overlooked: Just for helping to solidify Def Jam alone, the Beasties will go down in the rap annals.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/btnh.jpgBone Thugs-N-Harmony
These Thugs were the most melodic group in hip-hop history. How many MCs have tried to follow in Bone's footsteps with a sing-song flow? Many — but no one has been able to do it like this Cleveland group, which was discovered by N.W.A's Eazy-E. Bone Thugs' harmonizing could make a choir jealous, and if you listen closely, they had a lot to say. In 2006, they signed to super producer Swizz Beatz's Full Surface imprint, and have been poising themselves to become a factor on the charts again.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/bn.jpgBrand Nubian
They've had some ups and downs over the years, but Nubian were strongest when they consisted of Lord Jamar, Sadat X and Grand Puba. All for One, their 1990 debut, was a captivating array of Five Percent knowledge, black pride, self-empowerment and b-boy jams. Puba's swagger is what some MCs still build their style on: book bags, name-brand apparel, a fly honey within arm's reach and those catchy one-liners (at one point, he was one of the most sought-after MCs for guest spots, rapping alongside everyone from Mary J. Blige to Fat Joe to Biggie to Tupac). Jamar was focused on doing the knowledge and expressing his militant side, while Dotty X had one of the most ingenious deliveries ever — some of his lines didn't even rhyme!

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/delasoul.jpgDe La Soul
Weirdos? We think not. Sure, on their first album, 1989's Three Feet High and Rising, they brought a psychedelic tinge to hip-hop that they called the Daisy Age, but their second album proved they were no gimmicky one-trick-ponies. With Prince Paul backing them in the early part of their career, you could always count on some humor to accompany their conceptual wordplay. The De La we know now have not conformed to chase the dollars of kiddie consumers: Plugs One, Two and Three deliver grown-man music at its finest.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/geto.jpgGeto Boys
No disrespect to Big Mike, but the Geto Boys lineup that will be remembered the most will always be Scarface, Willie D and Bushwick Bill. 'Face has hall of fame-level respect. He tells his stories with such clarity and gripping conviction that even a corpse could feel what he's saying. Willie D has presence on the mic: When he raps about kicking someone's a-- through the "goal posts of hell," you hear him loud and clear and believe him. Bushwick is the maniacal loon of the crew that you have to listen to every time just to see how crazy his verse will be. In the same way that N.W.A put us onto the West, the Geto Boys opened the doors for Southern hip-hop long before 8Ball and MJG, Outkast and UGK.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/goodiemob.jpgGoodie Mob
Before Cee-Lo became the soulful voice of Gnarls Barkley, he was the undeniable standout MC of the Goodie Mob. Not only is 'Lo a better singer than most R&B vocalists, his raps are poignant and prolific. He and his group gained their following with meditative albums in the mid '90s, and remained at the forefront of Southern hip-hop with their clique, the Dungeon Family (which also included Outkast and legendary producers Organized Noize, among others).

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/flash.jpgGrandmaster Flash & the Furious Five
Flash and the Five — Melle Mel, Rahiem, Scorpio, Kidd Creole and Cowboy — were there when rap started. Along with Kool Herc, Flash is the actual prototype DJ: a timeless pioneer who could keep the party going all night and astound the crowds with his skills. He's one of the first people ever to make a mixtape, and he's credited with being the first to scratch on an actual song: 1982's "The Message." That song was huge for the group and even bigger for the hip-hop community: It defined a generation, introduced the genre to new audiences and opened up a new whole world for hip-hop lyrics to explore. Flash — who's still one of the busiest DJs in the world — and the fellas are being rightfully inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this year.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/lox.jpgThe LOX
The LOX have actually only made two official albums, but when you add up all the material they've done on the mixtape circuit for the past decade-plus — not to mention their solo work — they have a catalog that's probably larger than Tupac's. Lyrically, there's not another trio that can stand next to Jadakiss, Styles P and Sheek Louch. The Yonkers, New York, natives may not see mainstream love that some of their contemporaries have, but the streets will never turn their backs on them. The LOX also have the distinction of being integral parts of two dynasties: Bad Boy circa 1994-98, and Ruff Ryders circa '98-2002.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/mobb3.jpgMobb Deep
They are masters of blood talk and potent, glum beats that make eardrums bleed and dancefloors turn into jungle terrain. Prodigy and Havoc have not only been able to stay together for over 10 years (a rarity in rap) but they've stayed consistent with opuses riddled with project anguish, liquor-fueled debauchery and rapid-fire gunplay. They'll never step far enough outside their realm to chase a multiplatinum plaque, and that's why they've remained a concrete favorite.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/nbn.jpgNaughty by Nature</B>
Treach used to kill it on that mic, boy! He was an all-purpose MC: lyrically terrorizing; a new flow on every verse; enough street credibility to be good in any 'hood, from East to West (he was best friends with the realest thug ever, Tupac); and the ability to propel the hip-hop mainstream with tremendous anthems that still get love. Vin Rock is one of the great sidekicks and DJ/producer Kay Gee was masterful with his polished grit. As a group, Naughty were one of the first to get their own clothing line — and even several years after their heyday, the trio are still competitive with younger acts, as far as live performance is concerned.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/roots.jpgThe Roots
We had a difficult time classifying this long-running Philadelphia troupe. Although they've had a large number of guest MCs making records and performing with them over the years, to make it in our top 10, you had to have at least two MCs officially down with your unit. But this group doesn't really fit into any category, and maybe that's the greatest testament to its legacy. Black Thought — who rated an honorable mention in our Greatest MCs of All Time — still can mix it up with the best of them, the group's instrumental chops are beyond question (they backed Jay-Z on both his 2001 "Unplugged" performance and the 10th anniversary concert for Reasonable Doubt), and its live shows are legendary.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/threesix.jpgThree 6 Mafia
Before they won an Oscar, before they were staying fly, Triple 6 Mafia were putting Memphis on on the hip-hop radar with full-fledged donnybrook music. Hailing from the city most famous for Elvis, DJ Paul, Juicy J and their Hypnotized Mindz camp were able to carve out their own niche, making the world realize that a lot more music is coming out of Memphis than what's playing at Graceland. Whether it's selling records on their own or producing all their albums, Paul and J have kept it self-contained for over a decade — and when you can sell as many records as they have, who needs outside help?

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/whodini.jpgWhodini
How OG are Ecstacy, Jalil and Grandmaster Dee? They were the first rap group to shoot a music video, the first to regularly feature backup dancers (one of whom was a young, jheri-curl-topped Jermaine Dupri) and were racking up gold and platinum record sales when people said rap was just a fad. They kept their fashion game tight (well, as tight as '80s fashion could be), were able to hold their own on tours with Run-DMC and the Beastie Boys, and hits like "Friends" and "One Love" solidified their mastery of relationship rap.


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"He's The DJ, I'm The Rapper": The Greatest MC/DJ Combinations Of All Time

You didn't think we'd let technicalities get in the way of giving props, did you? Although the rulebook disqualified these duos from our top 10, we had to give them their just due.

Eric B. & Rakim With chains that hung lower than Jibbs', and songs that intertwined with your soul, Rakim became the archetype for all MCs, and Eric B. made sure the beats, scratches and the albums' continuity all stayed on point.

Boogie Down Productions Together, KRS-One and his original DJ, Scott La Rock, made two of the greatest battle anthems ever with "South Bronx" and "The Bridge Is Over," as well as a classic LP, 1987's Criminal Minded. La Rock — who was killed just months after the album's release — was the musical mastermind who had the vision, while KRS had the skills to carry out the game plan. La Rock would have been proud to see the career his friend went on to have.

Gang Starr DJ Premier is one of the best hip-hop producers of all time — that's unanimous. But he's just as undeniable at scratching: Just listen to "Mass Appeal." Guru has remained steadily dope on the mic with narratives, battle raps and serious science-dropping, all in his well-known monotone.

DJ Jazzy Jeff & the Fresh Prince No matter what Will Smith is doing now, there's no denying their pioneering presence: They were the first to win a Grammy and bring it back to the hip-hop community, and helped rap shake hands with the mainstream.

Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth When we reminisce over Pete and C.L., we remember one of the most magnificent hip-hop duos of all time — and one of the most tragic breakups, too. Pete had an undeniable run as an "it" producer during the '90s, and Corey Love made the music even stronger with his smooth, introspective lyrics.

tical2000
03-06-2007, 02:38 PM
The MTV BRain Trust Speaks:

The members of MTV News' hip-hop brain trust wouldn't have been chosen if they weren't passionate about music — and you'll see both in the TV special and below just how passionate three of them are, in particular over certain groups that the brain trust decided do not belong in the top 10.

Beastie Boys

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/beasties2.jpgIf hip-hop is supposed to represent something bigger than the formative black experience at the genre's core; if it is allowed to transcend the 'hood and be viewed on its artistic merits and its resonance with people outside the street experience — including, let's just say it, white people — then you have to consider the Beastie Boys, those hyper-smart and super-fresh kids from New York, as one of the greatest groups of all time.

Even though they now boast a soft-cover sound and retrofitted politics, their longevity — and musical arc — is indisputable. For better or for worse, they brought the hip-hop sound to suburban frat boys, skate punks and mall girls at a crucial point in the genre's development. But more importantly, they had the skills to pay the bills. Their first album, 1986's Licensed to Ill, contains some of Grammy-winning super-producer Rick Rubin's finest work — and earned them the co-sign of Run-DMC, the greatest group of all time. Their second album, Paul's Boutique, remains one of the three best works of sampling and composition ever. Check Your Head found them actually playing the funk grooves they'd previously sampled and shows off their beat-digger souls. And so on, and so on, and so on. The only thing that denies them entry into the pantheon of greatest groups here is that other element of hip-hop's core: narrow-mindedness.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/patel.jpg— Joseph Patel






###

Mobb Deep

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/mobb2.jpgI really feel like I let all my dunns in my home borough of Queens, New York, down.

Believe me, I'm not copping any pleas, but it wasn't a fair fight. My main man/partner in crime, Rahman Dukes (also a Queens repper), and I were outnumbered: Two of us against the rest of the MTV News hip-hop brain trust, a lion's den of our esteemed peers, who for reasons I still can't fathom would not vote Mobb Deep onto our list of the top 10 greatest hip-hop groups ever. Are you serious?

When we first came up with the idea of a round table about hip-hop's greatest groups, there was no question in my mind that Mobb's Havoc and Prodigy should be on it — and this isn't just a case of Queens bias. Putting aside their talent and hits for the moment, let's start with longevity. The Mobb released their first album, Juvenile Hell, in 1993. It's a very short list of groups that came out in their era that are still relevant, with Wu-Tang and Outkast being the most obvious examples — heck, there's an even shorter list of groups that debuted in that era who are even still together. And although hardly anyone cares about Juvenile Hell (released when Hav and P were in their mid-teens), but what they've done since has been truly amazing.

I think their sophomore LP, 1995's The Infamous, is one of the greatest rap albums of all time, period. It may not have sold as astronomically as some of the albums by other artists on the list, but track for track it's untouchable. Lyrically, Prodigy stepped his game up five levels, undoubtedly inspired by seeing a guy from his neighborhood — Nas — being christened hip-hop's lyrical messiah a year earlier. Havoc's production on the album is an overwhelming triumph: morose but hard and energetic.

We all know one classic album doesn't necessarily warrant top-10 status — apparently, unless you're the Fugees (no disrespect, but what?!) — but the Mobb have consistently come with quality fire every time since. Hell on Earth, Murda Muzik, Infamy, Amerikaz Nightmare, Prodigy's solo joint H.N.I.C. and even last year's slept-on Blood Money were all complete albums — that means more than one or two hot records, that means coherence throughout, that means you'll listen to the whole thing more than once.

Clearly, my Brain Trust la Familia (whom I love dearly) have forgotten how they used to lose it at parties or in the club when records like "Quiet Storm," "Shook Ones, Pt. 2," "The Learning (Burn)" or "Got It Twisted" would come on. They disregarded how the blood talk on "Hell on Earth (Front Lines)," "Get Away," "G.O.D., Pt. III" and "Keep It Thoro" would burn holes in their CD players because the lyrics and soundscapes are so enthralling. They're not hearing how bits and pieces of the Mobb's "dunn language" have been incorporated into our own vocabulary through the years. All the work the Mobb have done on the mixtape circuit, keeping real thoroughbred street music alive and pumping for the past 13 years, is ignored.

Our list is very strong: I'm proud of 90 percent of the choices we made. But that's the beauty of the round table. No matter how many pioneering, sonically overachieving groups the brain trust comes up with, there will always be somebody ready to reopen the debate ...

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/sha.jpg— Shaheem Reid





###

The Roots

[Editor's note: The rules agreed upon by the MTV News hip-hop brain trust state that a hip-hop group must have more than one MC in its lineup; the Roots do not, and thus do not qualify for the list.]

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/roots2.jpgTo my shock and shame, the Roots were left off our list of the Greatest Hip-Hop Groups of All Time. This is a travesty! I fought hard and passionately for them, however I console myself in the knowledge that time will prove me right.

The Roots have never been as commercially successful as some of their contemporaries, but something should be said for the fact that they have produced some of hip-hop's greatest underground anthems — "The Next Movement," "What They Do," "Act Too (Love of My Life)" — and continue to raise the musical bar with their live performances. Also, they have had a tremendous impact on hip-hop music by helping to develop some of its brightest and most credible stars: Roots tours, records and collaborations have featured Common, Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Jill Scott and many others — before Eve became a star, she was prominently featured on the Roots' Grammy-winning 1999 single, "You Got Me."

The Roots are distinguished from any other hip-hop act because they are musicians — a genuine band in which every member is technically skilled in his role. ?uestlove's mastery of the drums, Hub's incredible bass skills, and Kamal on keyboards make a Roots show an almost spiritual experience. Black Thought is one of the most profoundly skilled MCs in hip-hop, possessing the ability to flow both written and off-the-dome lyrics. He has a piercing delivery and can cover a broad range of lyrical topics.

The Roots have performed all over the world and put on one of the best live shows of any rap act. They've performed everywhere from the down-and-dirty underground hip-hop clubs of Philadelphia to Lollapalooza, and even Switzerland's Montreaux Jazz Festival. Anyone who knows hip-hop has to respect the long-lost art of the live show, and the Roots have managed to lock down that facet like no other group. That's why they've been called upon to back Jay-Z, Eminem and others.

They have outlasted many of the groups on this list — ?uest and Black Thought began performing together in 1987, while still in high school — and they appeal to audiences ranging from the most hard-core hip-hop heads to alternative-rock crowds.

There are many reasons why the Roots should have been included on the list. Ultimately, they were axed due to a technicality: The brain trust rules say a rap group must have more than one member MCing, which disqualifies the Roots from being included. We debated whether swing members like Malik B. and Dice Raw could put them back in the mix for consideration, but in the end, the panel chose not to include them — a decision I feel compromises the integrity of the entire list. And that's all I have to say about it.

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/butta.jpg— Buttahman, legendary Roots crew representative since 1993


The MTV Hip-Hop Brain Trust: "The Greatest Groups Of All Time"

Tuma Basa - manager, MTV Music Programming
Bridget Bland - producer/ writer, MTV Radio Network
Tone Boots - creative consultant, MTV
Buttahman - director, music and talent, "MTV Jams"
Sway Calloway - on-air correspondent, MTV News
Rahman Dukes - senior producer, MTVNews.com
Sean Lee - supervising producer, MTV News
Joseph Patel - producer, MTV News
Shaheem Reid - hip-hop editor, MTV News
Kurt Williamson - producer, MTV


http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/tuma.jpg

Tuma Basa
Representing: Africa and Iowa City, Iowa
Picks:
1. N.W.A
2. Run-DMC
3. Outkast
4. Wu-Tang Clan
5. Geto Boys
6. A Tribe Called Quest
7. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
8. UGK
9. De La Soul
10. Salt 'N Pepa

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/bridget.jpg
Bridget Bland
Representing: ATL
Picks:

1. Run-DMC
2. Outkast
3. N.W.A
4. Wu-Tang Clan
5. Public Enemy
6. Goodie Mob
7. Fugees
8. Salt 'N Pepa
9. UGK
10. A Tribe Called Quest

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/tone.jpg
Tone Boots
Representing: Baltimore, Maryland
Picks:

1. Run-DMC
2. N.W.A.
3. Public Enemy
4. Outkast
5. Wu-Tang Clan
6. Bone Thugs-N-Harmony
7. A Tribe Called Quest
8. Naughty by Nature
9. EPMD
10. Salt 'N Pepa

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/buttahman2.jpg
Buttahman
Representing: Baltimore, Maryland
Picks:

1. Run-DMC
2. A Tribe Called Quest
3. N.W.A
4. De La Soul
5. Public Enemy
6. Wu-Tang Clan
8. Fugees
7. EPMD
8. Salt 'N Pepa
9. Mobb Deep
10. Geto Boys

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/dukes.jpgRahman Dukes
Representing: Upstate New York and Queens, New York
Picks:

1. Run-DMC
2. Public Enemy
3. Wu-Tang Clan
4. Black Moon
5. Mobb Deep
6. The LOX
7. EPMD
8. De La Soul
9. Brand Nubian
10. Beastie Boys

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/patel.jpg
Joseph Patel
Representing: San Francisco, California
Picks:

1. N.W.A
2. Run-DMC
3. A Tribe Called Quest
4. Outkast
5. Public Enemy
6. De La Soul
7. EPMD
8. Wu-Tang Clan
9. Beastie Boys
10. Freestyle Fellowship

http://www.mtv.com/bands/h/hip_hop_week/2007/groups/images/shaheem.jpg
Shaheem Reid
Representing: Queens, New York
Picks:

1. Run-DMC
2. N.W.A
3. Wu-Tang Clan
4. Public Enemy
5. Outkast
6. A Tribe Called Quest
7. EPMD
8. Mobb Deep
9. Salt 'N Pepa
10. UGK

xHard to Earnx
03-06-2007, 05:27 PM
But to put groups like NWA ahead of them was just plain disrepectful.



I don't even really like the only NWA record that matters, and I still think this is quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read on here (not counting that ruby something broad).


Seriously, Wu's placement is fine. All of you really need to stop.

2L8Lit da croatianMC
03-07-2007, 05:13 AM
Why yall deleted my most expressin myself about that muthafucka sayin that Outlaws r #1?? is that moderatah a Outlaws fan or what the fuck yo?

2L8Lit da croatianMC
03-07-2007, 06:07 AM
i dont get it i posted, but me post is invisible i guess like this one 2..
Yeah some moderator deleted my post...

Alcryt
03-07-2007, 07:23 AM
i dont get it i posted, but me post is invisible i guess like this one 2..
Yeah some moderator deleted my post...

Def saw that post before, cant find it..
But i agree with what you said lol

tical2000
03-07-2007, 05:38 PM
Why yall deleted my most expressin myself about that muthafucka sayin that Outlaws r #1?? is that moderatah a Outlaws fan or what the fuck yo?

OUTLAWS #1......you mean 2PAC's weed holders?.....those niggers suck

I will take the MTV list over yours

dimi
03-07-2007, 07:03 PM
so what is the list