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Sun Supreme
03-31-2007, 08:25 PM
Being that alot of ya'll on this site are not of the christian faith, I really want to know your opinions about christians as a singular family (that we believe we are). When you hear the word "christian" what comes to mind? What type of person do you invision? What are some of your experiences involving people that call themselves christian? What do you expect out of christians?

These are some questions I want answered by a wider group of people cause all i hear is "christians are phony" or "I hate church" with no subtantial arguement for their opinion. And if some of you feel like that i don't mind, just tell me why you feel that way.

PEACE!!!!!!!

Imperial1
03-31-2007, 09:40 PM
When you hear the word "christian" what comes to mind?

Someone whose beliefs are that of christianity.

What type of person do you invision?

Someone who attends church after a night of drinks and swine-eating.

What do you expect out of christians?

Same thing I would expect from anyone else. "Do on to others as they would do to you."

Things I don't like about church: Gossip among the members who sit in the pews and act like they shit don't stink.

The consistent offering plates being passed around.

Whenever the sermon focuses moreso on worshipping Jesus (PBUH) rather than God who created him.

Whenever the sermon includes misconceptions of another faith. i.e. I still remember when I was young and attended church, one of my pastors making this statement: "How are you going to worship something that's dead?" *insert eyeroll*

^^^^^ Watch the movie "The Gospel" and you'll see some of that still going on in some churches. (Can you believe that one time during a church service, my pastor at the time actually got into a heated argument with members of the deacon board over some stupid crap? )

Sidenote: I converted to Islam 2 years ago. I used to be of the christian faith a long time ago.



Imperial1

brown_dogg
03-31-2007, 10:14 PM
Can anyone explain to me the difference between a "catholic" and a "christian". I usually use the words interchangeably, but some ppl are picky about stuff like that.

diggy
03-31-2007, 10:35 PM
When you hear the word "christian" what comes to mind?

Timothy McVeigh, George Bush, White Supremacy, Slavery, the murders of innocent blacks, colonization, anti-islamic behavior, child molestation by priests, the Holy Bible, the segragation of Aborigionals on reserves, lynchings and the KKK.

What are some of your experiences involving people that call themselves christian?

Fierce intolorance, coldness and hostility of looks, words and actions, deception, stuck-up and arrogant to the point of insulting those who do not believe as they do, hypocracy, justifying the denyal of human rights by their bible.

What do you expect out of christians?


That they should really study the Bible and realize Jesus was a man ( not God) and that they should tolerate others, that they should not oppress people or start wars with other nations because of different faith. They should apply teaching to their lives.


I also expect their belief will soon die out as church members dwindle in numbers, as victims of child molestations speak out, and as people realize "Christianity" is a business whereby the preacher sells you the message of hope and expects donations (tithes) afterwards (bait and switch).

Have you ever seen a poor minister?

Ultimate Fist
03-31-2007, 10:56 PM
Being that alot of ya'll on this site are not of the christian faith, I really want to know your opinions about christians as a singular family (that we believe we are). When you hear the word "christian" what comes to mind? What type of person do you invision? What are some of your experiences involving people that call themselves christian? What do you expect out of christians?

These are some questions I want answered by a wider group of people cause all i hear is "christians are phony" or "I hate church" with no subtantial arguement for their opinion. And if some of you feel like that i don't mind, just tell me why you feel that way.

PEACE!!!!!!!

Christians have never been of a singular faith, despite the claims of more modern ones. In its earliest days Christianity was divided into many sects including:

*Paulines (what became Catholics)
*Judeo-Christians (Christians who kept the Jewish customs and saw themselves as Jews)
*Gnostics (believed God was evil and Jesus came with a secret teaching to help them transcend our universe so they could escape God's wrath)
*Ebionites (thought Jesus was not God but came to teach mysticism and was the messiah)
*Hedonists (thought Jesus got rid of all moral law and lived hedonistic lifestyles)

So as we can see there was never really one church as many Christians claim, unless you count the initial ragtag gang of fishermen and carpenters who followed Jesus personally. Whatever initial source they may have came, from the Christian family broke up rather quickly into greatly different factions.

Ultimately the Catholics won. I do not know if they and their descendants (protestants, etc) are the "true church" Jesus had in mind and I believe its impossible to tell at this point.

Evangelical Christians in my country (USA) do not see all christians as one faith either- many see mormons, catholics, seventh day adventists, etc. as heretics. Other sects see all the churches as equally legit. But they're hardly one family and I think its an idealization to believe they ever were one. Even when the Catholic church ruled with an iron fist in the middle ages, there was some diversity of thought within it. Thomas Aquinas and Meister Eckhart had diversely different theologies. After the Reformation, the church split into dozens of denominations. Baptist, Mormon, Lutheran, etc.

But to my point. The Christian family is not one. For me to offer my opinion of a typical christian, you would have to tell me their denomination, what congress of that denomination they are, the country they live in and the degree to which they practice their faith. Christians are pretty diverse. I have my stereotypes of different groups of christians but I don't have one single stereotype of them as a whole.

Another reason I have no specific opinion of christians as a whole is they tend to use their faith as a means to use religion to empower what they already are. What I mean is, if they are loving people, they might join a church relief mission. If they're assholes, they might use their faith as an excuse to tell everyone they're "going to Hell." A person's Christianity tends to be more reflective of themselves than any doctrine.

When I criticize "Christians" I usually mean people who use their faith for political means ie the "religious right." I see them as good intentioned but closed minded people who usually live in their own little world. I worry about them gaining too much power because they may do politically unsound things in the name of "fufilling prophecy" or "promoting morality". Some cross me as very scary- I used to know such a Christian who called Jews "satanists" Muslims "sodomizers" and atheists "commies." Then he'd talk about how the "satanists" "sodomizers" and "commies" were "persecuting him" (which I saw as ridiculous given christianity is like 70% of the population). I call these people christians because that is what they have labelled themselves but I know they are a fringe element, probably no more than 10% of all Christians.

I had positive experiences in the church as a child, for the most part. I didn't leave due to dissatisfaction but rather theological reasons. I learned some important morals there as a child. Still, I do remember some disturbing stuff. My Sunday school teacher tried to make me convert a Hindu family that lived next door to me when I was 12. That was fucked up. She made me recite they were going to Hell over and over until class was over. She was crazy though- they stopped letting her teach Sunday school after that.

I see modern Christian theology as weak. I was raised in the church but through independent study came to see the holes in it's teachings. I do not believe Jesus was divine or messiah nor that most of the Bible actually happened. I suspect the gospels had symbolic or mystical meanings that have been largely lost to time. I think most people practice it for sentimental reasons and do not really look into the theology, otherwise they would see the holes in it too, eventually, if they were open-minded and objective. It kind of bothers me that people practice a religion I consider false but I also understand religion is an emotional thing and not an intellectual one for most people. It comforts them so its OK. I'm not really practicing any religion right now, though I do study the different faiths. I suspect most religions have the same source, as they're similar in more ways than they are different.

Os3y3ris
03-31-2007, 11:05 PM
Can anyone explain to me the difference between a "catholic" and a "christian". I usually use the words interchangeably, but some ppl are picky about stuff like that.

Catholicism is a demonination of Christianity. They have a lot of concepts and practices not found elsewhere like transubstanation, sainthood, a pope, etc. They also have their own history with the world and with other demoninations.

Have you ever seen a poor preacher?

There's one on every corner.

Anyways, when I see Christians I wonder whether or not they actually know something about God and if they're trying to express it.

froth
03-31-2007, 11:07 PM
generally i think of christians as people that believe that believing that jesus was the son of god and died for their sins is necesarry to enter a place called heavan as opposed to hell

Ultimate Fist
03-31-2007, 11:18 PM
Mr. Sun Supreme, I'd like to offer this audio from the board ex-christians.org, which is for former christians, which explains why former christians (and anti-religious types in general) are so angry at christianity in case that is something you are wondering. It was originally posted in response to some christians spamming on the board so please excuse the hostile tone:

http://exchristian.net/podcast/2006/10/not-ready-to-be-nice.html

Marc051
04-01-2007, 09:02 AM
Christian people are materialistic

rubyspirit
04-01-2007, 11:21 AM
Christians are the believers of the one true God. Unfornately they do not follow the scriptures as written, and fall short of what pleases God.

98% of the people who call themselves Christians have not read the entire Holy Bible. The Catholics created and added weird traditions ...Santa Claus, Rabbit and eggs worship, ???, etc.

At least they are trying. "He among you who is without sin,..." /(

Ultimate Fist
04-01-2007, 11:25 PM
Remember yesterday when I said when I talk about Christians I usually mean fringe Christians?

http://www.olivetreeviews.org

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

Great features of this site that show what I mean by "crazy Christians"

1. They think there is a conspiracy to genocide Christians in America (once again, no one seems to notice that Christians are 76% of the population.)
2. They are worried Harry Potter is Satanic.
3. They complain when their faith is insulted but they openly disparage Judaism, Islam and Buddhism on the website.
4. They complain that Muslims were mean to them when they tried to convert them at a muslim confrence (I wonder how they would treat muslims if the situation was reversed.)
5. They want to convert everybody, espcially the Jews (that's what "Messianic Jewish" means in Christian backtalk) and Muslims (whole section devoted to it) but warn that there are "evil forces" trying to convert Christians.
6. They think climate changes are signs of the "end times."

rubyspirit
04-02-2007, 01:15 AM
1. They think there is a conspiracy to genocide Christians in America (once again, no one seems to notice that Christians are 76% of the population.)
The gay issues are strongly being promoted right now. It is clearly forbitten in the holy scriptures. If it is approved, the wave of sin will be rampage.

2. They are worried Harry Potter is Satanic.
The Holy Bible teaches to shun witchcraft.

3. They complain when their faith is insulted but they openly disparage Judaism, Islam and Buddhism on the website.
Judaism is the founding worship of the faith. The Old Testament...which teaches there is one God. So the other religions are meaningless to us, just like Christianity is meaningless to them.

4. They complain that Muslims were mean to them when they tried to convert them at a muslim confrence (I wonder how they would treat muslims if the situation was reversed.)
Muslims call Christians and Western society "infidels". And?

5. They want to convert everybody, espcially the Jews (that's what "Messianic Jewish" means in Christian backtalk) and Muslims (whole section devoted to it) but warn that there are "evil forces" trying to convert Christians.
Their life should be the witness. No one should try to convert anyone.

6. They think climate changes are signs of the "end times."
Read Revelations...the 4th seal talks about men being "scorched". The summers are hotter, no?

Ultimate Fist
04-02-2007, 01:19 AM
1. They think there is a conspiracy to genocide Christians in America (once again, no one seems to notice that Christians are 76% of the population.)
The gay issues are strongly being promoted right now. It is clearly forbitten in the holy scriptures. If it is approved, the wave of sin will be rampage.



And that's a genocide of Christians how?

V4D3R
04-02-2007, 01:27 AM
*Gnostics (believed God was evil and Jesus came with a secret teaching to help them transcend our universe so they could escape God's wrath)

Where did you get that garbage from - that's not gnostic at all.

Ultimate Fist
04-02-2007, 01:29 AM
http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html

I may have over simplified how I put it.

supremecharma
04-02-2007, 07:36 AM
A Christian Person Is A Person Who Believes In Peace, The Difference Between Right And Wrong And Endeavours To Stand By It And Lives By The 7 Deadly Sins.

Frontal Lobotomy
04-02-2007, 08:10 AM
The Phelps family, perchance?

RAMESH
04-02-2007, 08:47 AM
a true definition of a christian is me in my eyes & gods eyes

supremecharma
04-02-2007, 09:24 AM
PEACE TO YOU rAMESH

froth
04-02-2007, 09:48 AM
ruby or whoever is fucking ignorant

Missy
04-02-2007, 10:01 AM
Better then a jew.

V4D3R
04-02-2007, 02:01 PM
http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html

I may have over simplified how I put it.

It's pretty obvious who the "bad God" and "good God" are in genesis.

Do the math.

Imperial1
04-02-2007, 02:24 PM
4. They complain that Muslims were mean to them when they tried to convert them at a muslim confrence (I wonder how they would treat muslims if the situation was reversed.)
Muslims call Christians and Western society "infidels". And?


I don't call non-muslims "infidels." What exactly is the definition of that word? I don't even recall seeing it in the Qu'ran.

Imperial1

Imperial1
04-02-2007, 02:27 PM
BTW, can we get some more intelligent replies than those ignorant one-liners? Again, this forum is called "Know The Ledge" not "Ignore-Ants." *insert eyeroll*

Imperial1

Sun Supreme
04-02-2007, 05:27 PM
Everybody has given some great replies. Exactly what i needed. Ultimate Fist, thanks for the sound clip. Now my main reason for asking, besides the fact that I just wanted opinions, is the fact that I get alot of heat from other christians because my life isn't perfect. I smoke weed, cuss, watch porn, rap about ungodly things sometimes and people (crazy ass christians) hate me for it. I feel that they don't understand that i have a house full of people because of christianity.

Let me explain, I was a 5%er but not as avid as most of my peers. I felt that they were telllin me ideal knowledge but not one of there lives reflected that they were owners to this extensive wealth. So in short i just said fuck it and went back to Christianity (which i grew up in). I then approached christianity with the mindset that i was going to show people love for real. In REAL life. Not just sayin all the shit we should do on sunday then hear it all again next sunday.

well, I moved to a new neighbohood and was lead by God I feel to groups of people who just needed someone like them to tell them God loves you regardless of what you do, but, laws are already set in place and the consequences of sin is death. So one guy who was 18 at the time got this girl who says across from me pregnant. She was only 13. Everyone wanted to bust his ass (including me). I fear for his life really. One day I open the front door to see my stepchildren of to school as usuall and this nigga was sleepin outside with a thin ass blanket in the middle of december. I told him to come in, got him some food, and talked to him for like hours. To make a long story short I let him live with me until he got his shit together. The girls family is crazy 4 real. The always beefin and fightin, momma out there gettin her ass whooped by grown men tryin to stand up for her kids. I help them so much and they shit on me. they say my wife is the best person on the planet and im like the fuckin ogre of NC. I can be forward a little but always outta love and honesty. They don't seem to realize that everytime my wife cooks MY food, that I pay for, for MY family and gives it to them I authorize that shit. They still just run they young, smart ass mouths about me. But i never deny them anything i have.

I have recently let 3 more people live wit me and i don't do it for recognition of my peers but damn, I came to them lokin for encouragement cause havin 6 adults, 2 teen girls, and 2 babies in a 3 bedroom apartment can get rough to say the least. All they wanna say is "well, how is your smokin addiction coming along?" "Have you been trying to cuss less this week?" Im like, bitch, all these damn people in my house makin me cuss and smoke more and I just want you to say "It'll be all right. Gods watchin you."

So I have learned that alot of church people are just nosey but i dont treat them no different than i would if they were actually nice. But i have started going to a white church and the preacher is mad cool. The people are on some "Its not what you don't do for God, its what you do." Meaning, some people get so hype cause they dont fornicate, or smoke, drink, listen to rap music, etc. But at the end of the day they dont love one another as they love themselves either. I was even puffin a big as blunt wit my wife and the preacher came to the door. A 28 year old white man with gray hair (wierd right?) was like chill yall, if you don't feel comfortable I'll come back. I was like naw, come on in have a seat. We got into a deep spiritual convo while me and my wife casually passed the dutch back and forth. I though it was weird as hell but I have not been able to miss his church sermons since. This dude is like Jesus, in the sense that we are supposed to be christ-like. He as even offered me a position working with the youth in his church (which is all white) and he confides in me and makes me feel like im important to the church and I've only attend like 3 sermons but we meet and stayed in contact like a month before i ever when to his church once.

Bottom line is I have my beef with the "religous folk" but God has recently provided me with some real "christians". Some white folk who told me that "they were happy to finally have some color in the pews to spice things up a bit." Wasn't expecting it but God does work in mysterious ways.\

(DAMN THAT WAS ALOT!!!!!!!!!)

Kong
04-02-2007, 05:36 PM
A Christian is someone that likes a title.

WARPATH
04-02-2007, 06:31 PM
I think a christian is someone who strives to have the same values of Jesus Christ in the bible.

Kong
04-02-2007, 06:37 PM
I think a christian is someone who strives to have the same values of Jesus Christ in the bible.

thats how they get fuckked up.

hectis
04-02-2007, 07:27 PM
some one who follows JESUS but lots of people say they are but are really not

Olive Oil Goombah
04-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Religion, when you really break it down, comes from the individual...you choose the way you live your life. Now false prophets have corrupted uneducated people for years in the name of God. No religious group is clean of this charge.
You can't group all christians and say 'what is a christian'....You might be interested inpeoples opinions of 'what is a christian'..and thats probably what this post was about.
But in my opinion, the individual is responsible for his own salvation

Kong
04-02-2007, 08:57 PM
Religion, when you really break it down, comes from the individual...you choose the way you live your life. Now false prophets have corrupted uneducated people for years in the name of God. No religious group is clean of this charge.
You can't group all christians and say 'what is a christian'....You might be interested inpeoples opinions of 'what is a christian'..and thats probably what this post was about.
But in my opinion, the individual is responsible for his own salvation

doesn't that then mean the individual by default is not of religion but a free thinker? the title just stays there through fear of removing it?

maestro wooz
04-04-2007, 12:32 AM
So I have learned that alot of church people are just nosey but i dont treat them no different than i would if they were actually nice. But i have started going to a white church and the preacher is mad cool. The people are on some "Its not what you don't do for God, its what you do." Meaning, some people get so hype cause they dont fornicate, or smoke, drink, listen to rap music, etc. But at the end of the day they dont love one another as they love themselves either. I was even puffin a big as blunt wit my wife and the preacher came to the door. A 28 year old white man with gray hair (wierd right?) was like chill yall, if you don't feel comfortable I'll come back. I was like naw, come on in have a seat. We got into a deep spiritual convo while me and my wife casually passed the dutch back and forth. I though it was weird as hell but I have not been able to miss his church sermons since. This dude is like Jesus, in the sense that we are supposed to be christ-like. He as even offered me a position working with the youth in his church (which is all white) and he confides in me and makes me feel like im important to the church and I've only attend like 3 sermons but we meet and stayed in contact like a month before i ever when to his church once.



awesome post man. With letting all those people live there, aren't you worried they're gonna bring some of the troubles that made them homeless into your house? That's what would hold me back in that situation, i wouldn't trust them to stay out of trouble while they were living with me.

Your preacher sounds like a couple figures i've met. I went to a jesuit high school, and yeah there were a couple old douche bag priests, but alot of them were "real" priests. One really old dude, who was only a brother, was a substitute for classes, and this dude would show up with nothing but a different book each day, would just chill out and talk to the kids, straight from his heart, and brain cause he would explain every book he had. There were a couple of other fathers who were just as genuine with their life. Alot of really good people who did everything they did in the name of Jesus. But, Growing up, and going to churches, there were alot of priests who felt equally as ungenuine and phoney, and who never seemed to really be down with what he was talking about.

My point, every religion has idiots who don't live what they preach, who misinterpret the true meaning of their religion, and carry themselves in a manner wholly not true to their religion. Christianity is one of the biggest religions in the world, so there's alot more dumbasses running around. It's simple mathematics. Coupled with the fact that alot of the "evil incidents" over history have been done with a christian flag, christianity has gotten a real bad name. Not that it doesn't deserve it, but the ideals of christianity and the people who live them out, are just as beautiful as any other religion or belief you could adhere to. The validity of the beliefs is another issue every person has to find for themself.

supremecharma
04-04-2007, 03:54 AM
My point, every religion has idiots who don't live what they preach, who misinterpret the true meaning of their religion, and carry themselves in a manner wholly not true to their religion. Christianity is one of the biggest religions in the world, so there's alot more dumbasses running around. It's simple mathematics. Coupled with the fact that alot of the "evil incidents" over history have been done with a christian flag, christianity has gotten a real bad name. Not that it doesn't deserve it, but the ideals of christianity and the people who live them out, are just as beautiful as any other religion or belief you could adhere to. The validity of the beliefs is another issue every person has to find for themself.

absolutely fucking brilliantly put there. well done wooz.

rubyspirit
04-05-2007, 01:00 AM
ruby or whoever is fucking ignorant

:fucku:

froth
04-05-2007, 01:03 AM
ruby should try to be more wooz like

Visionz
04-05-2007, 01:10 AM
^Ruby, being real with you no beef (true KTL)you said earlier in this thread, or atleast implied, that Muslims don't care about other religions. If you read the Quran you would find out this isn't the case. It says that you should honor the "People of the Book" ,referring to the Christians and the Jews, as long as they believe with a pure heart and that you would know such by their actions. It's a more tolerant religon than alot give credit for. I think that part of that is based on the slant that is put on it by its most extreme followers and the propoganda surrounding those followers by the corperate media at large.

Kong
04-05-2007, 04:29 AM
i think aliens started earths religions.