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View Full Version : Ghost Fell Off & Became Boring


noel411
04-06-2007, 01:14 AM
For the life of me I cannot see what warrants all the hype about Ghost for the last few years. 'Ironman' was classic, SC was excellent, and since then he hasn't released anything that's cracked the average rating imo. 'Bullet Proof Wallets' was more or less horrible. 'Pretty Toney' was ok. Had a few good songs. There were a few good tracks on the Trife and Theodore Unit albums. And 'Fishscale' and 'More Fish' are 2 of the most forgettable albums I have heard. They have no appeal whatsoever to me.

Out of all the generals Ghost has been the least appealing to me over the last few years. I would be more excited about a new U-God album than a new Ghost album. 'Fishscale' and 'More Fish' were both purchased with no interest whatsoever, merely to add to my Wu collection, as a collector of Wu albums. They both lived up to my low expectations. He also almost ruined 'The W', although he came through on 'Iron Flag'.

I find it strange how in the mid-to-late 90's he was basically just another tight Wu member who created little fuss as an individual, even though he was 'spitting flames', and now that he's become average and boring people act as if he's some sort of God.

And don't kid yourself, a lot of his lyrics are more or less identical to what those mainstream artists you all pretend to loathe, are writing. My homeboy quoted one of his recent tracks in an email to me, and I asked him if it was a G Unit song or something, only to have him tell me it was a Ghost track. I really don't see what separates him from all those average chart rappers, lyrically. I can't remember the last Ghost verse I heard where the lyrics actually stood out to me. I really can't.

And spare me the childish insults and all that bullshit. I know how some Ghost fans are. This is just my opinion and if you don't like it then feel free to tell me so in a civilised manner. I just wanted to see if anybody here is feeling me, and agrees with what I'm saying. Because I know there are people out there who also feel that Ghost has become entirely unappealing.

TGambino
04-06-2007, 01:16 AM
then dont listen to his shit nigga got damn

noel411
04-06-2007, 01:18 AM
then dont listen to his shit nigga fuck outta here
And spare me the childish insults and all that bullshit. I know how some Ghost fans are. This is just my opinion and if you don't like it then feel free to tell me so in a civilised manner
That didn't take long.

noel411
04-06-2007, 01:19 AM
Curse this fucking forum. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a decent discussion here nowadays. IMPOSSIBLE.

GENERAL WISE
04-06-2007, 01:23 AM
Although i disagree, I hate people who can't take their favorite artist being critisized.

Just move your shit to Bring da Ruckus and wait for stans to catch feelings.

MX1
04-06-2007, 01:25 AM
honestly i like ghost best, and i found both fishscale and more fish to be good. i can see how u arent feeling him tho, his lyrics arent as good as they used to be, but honesty hes the only one really putting an effort out outta the wu, so i stick wit ghost..on those albums i had to pick and choose sum tracks because real talk, def jam effects sum of it

peace and 1luv

theafghan
04-06-2007, 01:25 AM
what were the lyrics that you mistook for G unit?

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 01:30 AM
just shut up thx

noel411
04-06-2007, 01:37 AM
Just move your shit to Bring da Ruckus and wait for stans to catch feelings.
I didn't want to put it there because it's not a thread to hate on Ghost. I'm just expressing my opinion and seeing if anybody else here feels the same.
what were the lyrics that you mistook for G unit?
The song was 'Ghostface', from the PT album. Obviously the 'Ghostface' part would give it away, but the person who emailed it to me had edited it so that it had his mc name in the place of 'Ghostface'. There's also a line about wallabies or something near the start, but at first I thought it was just a joke rhyme the emailer had written, so I thought nothing of it. As I read on I realised it wasn't something he had written, so I thought it must be a G Unit song or something, forgetting the line about wallabies. Not necessarily G Unit, but just one of those chart rappers.

I didn't recognise the lyrics because I have skipped that song every time I've played that album bar my first listen. I absolutely can't stand that track.

crass
04-06-2007, 01:39 AM
yeah that song "ghostface" blows. i dunno. i'm not that into fishscale or more fish but i like ghost's rapping. dude's still got energy.

deadlymelody
04-06-2007, 01:51 AM
Top 10 all time.

Ok I will admit he has been on some bad tracks where he didn't have it lyrically, but this style he has is trying to reach out to a wider audience. We all know that's not the real Wildflower, Winter Warz, Nutmeg Ghostface.

deadlymelody
04-06-2007, 01:53 AM
He also almost ruined 'The W',




Now this I completely disagree with. Did you forget about Jah World or I Cant Go to Sleep?

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 02:00 AM
everybody hates the song ghostface its atrocious. Probably the worst song on the pretty tony album. But that album was dope, and ghost has been talkin bout wallabes since ironman, so I dunno what the argument is there. You hate because of one bad song that everybody hates? I don't even wanna get into an argument about how great fishscale is cause you probly listened to it once. Why don't you sit there and tell me that biscuits, holla, run, metal lungies, and save me dear were bad songs with bad lyrics. I'd rather argue about something worth arguing.

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 02:01 AM
Now this I completely disagree with. Did you forget about Jah World or I Cant Go to Sleep?

co-fuckin sign brotha^^^^

Come Honor Face
04-06-2007, 02:15 AM
I cant believe i am sayin this, but i agree. Ghost has gotten fairly wack these dayz.I mean I like some of his newer tracks but not most. And i suspect he is not going 2 work with wu much anymore. That would be really really GAY!

Edgar Erebus
04-06-2007, 02:21 AM
I cant believe i am sayin this, but i agree. Ghost has gotten fairly wack these dayz.I mean I like some of his newer tracks but not most. And i suspect he is not going 2 work with wu much anymore. That would be really really GAY!

Who knows? He's still down with Cappachino, although I think too that he's now way more Theodore and Doom than Wu.

noel411
04-06-2007, 02:32 AM
Now this I completely disagree with. Did you forget about Jah World or I Cant Go to Sleep?
No, that is exactly what I'm talking about. I can't stand his verses in those 2 songs. He sounds far too overtly hysterical. Probably the only Ghost verses I hate more are in 'Hollow Bones' and 'Holocaust'. I can't stand that shit. Each to their own though.
ghost has been talkin bout wallabes since ironman, so I dunno what the argument is there
You misunderstood that comment. It's entirely irrelevant anyway.
You hate because of one bad song that everybody hates?
Goodness me. Talk about putting words in someones mouth. I really don't understand how you concluded this belief from what I said.
I don't even wanna get into an argument about how great fishscale is cause you probly listened to it once
I gave it a fair go. Played it several times when it dropped. Couldn't get into it at all. Tried again a few months later with the same result. I will admit that I didn't really give 'More Fish' a chance though. I think I only played it twice. Fuck it though, I'm tired of giving shit I know I'm not gonna like more plays than I need to. If I didn't have any desire to hear it again after 2 listens then I can't be missing much. It didn't sound bad at all. Just unappealing.
Why don't you sit there and tell me that biscuits, holla, run, metal lungies, and save me dear were bad songs with bad lyrics
I'm not gonna do that. Why? First of all because I never said all his recent songs were bad and poorly written. Secondly because I like all those songs. You might remember that I said there were some good tracks on PT? Mind you, they're nothing special lyrically. Good enough though.

g_flex
04-06-2007, 04:10 AM
its just nice to see ghost on sum diff shit though 2-3 beats on more fish is fuckin irritating plus its easier to understand him nowadays...can see he's gettin a older n wise..look at d way he smashed 'ghost is bac' track...he still got some dope lines

WuGambino
04-06-2007, 04:46 AM
Top 10 all time.

Lol.
I can see where the person who first posted is coming from, however if you look at other Wu-Tang albums from last year, Fishscale was not bad at all. Worth getting just for the two J Dilla songs IMO.

Compared to other Wu members right now I don't think he's particularly bad, but compared to himslf or any other Wu member from ten years ago Ghost has lost it.
I think it's a case of the entire clan running out of steam more than just pinning this on Ghost... They all suck. That's right.:mmmyah:

pep
04-06-2007, 06:27 AM
Ghost need to fck with RZA...I remember reading an article in a british magazine that was saying how def jam would ruin ghost career and i was like they don't know what they are talking about..sure enough next thing u know back like that comes out..I don't think ghost is wack by no means but hes in his zag chamber right now and he needs to go back to zig ya dig???

jokostyle
04-06-2007, 06:36 AM
I noticed that my 'problems' with ghost are his interpretations
more than his flow. his interpretations are less accurate , sometimes
less inspired (IMO), or just monotonous.I think his flow & interpretation combo reached their peak at the BPW time (even if i didn t really like this album).

i don t expect him to have the same flow for life but the interpretation is what allow you to provide feelings and i didn t feel that much things while listening most of his recent stuff even if i like certain verses or songs here & there (love, metal lungies,run, some fishcale & more fish tracks...)

The truth come when you compare his interpretation (once again i don t attack his flow although i don t feel his current one) on rainy days (several notes in his voice that transmit real emotions) & his interpretation on the most of the recent stuff.

To resume i d say that he provides less feelings than before (IMO)
perhaps because he was better directed (RZA) perhaps because he works
with grade B artists (TU) while he worked with grade A ones (the legendary wu) It makes less emulation & challenge. Plus he spits on several average/boring beats that use good/excellent samples.

ps : he should do more tracks with No ID who provided him 2 rich beats.

wutanghk
04-06-2007, 06:57 AM
Now this I completely disagree with. Did you forget about Jah World or I Cant Go to Sleep?

those tracks shouldn't be forgotten.

Dr Zayus
04-06-2007, 06:58 AM
I can half agree with you. I don't think Ghost's songwriting skills have fallen off at all (although he has his low points) but without RZA to focus him (and maybe the other way around too, considering how haphazard all of RZA's solo work sans In Stereo is) his albums have become disjointed and almost mixtape-like. More Fish is the epoch of this considering it's a thrown together B-sides compilation for lack of a better term but it's pretty easy to spot in Pretty Toney & Fishscale as well. BPW could have been as good as Supreme Clientele if Epic didn't get as involved as they did and Ghostface didn't make Theodore such a big part of the album. But that's beside the point.

The problem with Ghost's music, I think, is that he's eschewed the concept of the album. His sequencing is surprisingly weak and his beat selection, while good, tends to not fit in well. He was never the best rapper in the Clan and I'll argue that he's not even particularly lyrical but Ghost always got along on his charisma, voice and flow along with the off-hand crazy line.

Ghostface is making a mistake by releasing so much music in such a short time frame. He released 718 and PT in 2004, Put It On The Line in 2005 and Fishscale and More Fish last year and only Fishscale was particularly memorable to me, and it seems that it was more a fluke than anything else. Once again though, we get back to the sequencing. His songs are generally good but with no over-arching concept and increasingly repetitive subject matter it just seems like he's rapping himself into a rut.

However, I'm holding out hope that he's gonna surprise us this year. His idea to work with rock bands is great, but he needs to work with more UK talent instead of average bands like The Killers.

Hope it wasn't too unreadable. By the way, Eels aren't doing great on the ladder right now. I hope you guys get back up, I want to see a Manly/Parra finals rematch. :P

06griffinle
04-06-2007, 06:59 AM
ghost is holdin the fort down at the mo 421 best wu release last year but ghost puttin out regularly an good stuff miguel sanchez 9 milli etc he has gone bit commercial but that is only cause he is the only general makin moves and media see that would you rather have a 2002 2003 year

noel411
04-06-2007, 07:33 AM
By the way, Eels aren't doing great on the ladder right now. I hope you guys get back up, I want to see a Manly/Parra finals rematch. :P
Haha, I don't think you'll be seeing it this year. Eels are looking probably the second worst team in the comp right now. Superior only to the Roosters. The first 2 rounds were dismal and last week wasn't that much better, despite a win. I'm going to the game tomorrow night and expect to see us fall to the Raiders, unfortunately. Could go either way though. Manly are looking good. I predict a good year for them.

Good post too btw.

ShaolinDarts
04-06-2007, 07:36 AM
I agree with threadstarter. Not only has Ghost become progressively worse but some of his songs have been downright embarassing. I didn't buy Morefish and won't be buying it as I think I have supported him enough by buying his last three albums which were all nothing special.

Dr Zayus
04-06-2007, 07:40 AM
Haha, I don't think you'll be seeing it this year. Eels are looking probably the second worst team in the comp right now. Superior only to the Roosters. The first 2 rounds were dismal and last week wasn't that much better, despite a win. I'm going to the game tomorrow night and expect to see us fall to the Raiders, unfortunately. Could go either way though. Manly are looking good. I predict a good year for them.

Good post too btw.

I'll be watching the game at a party. Did you hit up the finals back in 2005? I went to the first round Manly/Parra match out in Parramatta and we got involved in a riot because some old tart hit my mate's girl.

noel411
04-06-2007, 07:50 AM
Haha, nah, I wasn't there. After that devastating 2001 grand final where we had dominated all year only to completely choke against the Knights, I kinda went off football and didn't get back into it until around mid '05. I'm not sure why I didn't hit up any games that season, but it was fucken shattering to see us again go into the finals in the top position only to once again choke, this time in the semis against those piss ant fucking Cowboys.

I went to the Eels/Eagles match late last season though.

abasi
04-06-2007, 07:55 AM
i actually liked his verse on Hollow Bones
Ghost is the busiest Wu member
he keeps his material out there but some of it gets watered down and fall short

Fishscale was the last ghost album i bought
and its a good album i lke BPW better though

tragedykhadafi12
04-06-2007, 08:04 AM
Obviously you have the right to your opinion but I think you are completely wrong. Just because ghost doesn't sound exactly like he used to I bet you are unloyal now. I think ghost is still as dope as ever.

Marc051
04-06-2007, 08:05 AM
I think he's just trying to push out too much...Ghost sounds tired in his raps nowadays...he needs to slow down.

noel411
04-06-2007, 08:10 AM
Obviously you have the right to your opinion but I think you are completely wrong. Just because ghost doesn't sound exactly like he used to I bet you are unloyal now. I think ghost is still as dope as ever.
Because he doesn't sound exactly like he used to? No Wu member sounds exactly like they used to. Yet I only did a thread about Ghost. Un-loyal? I still buy his albums knowing I'm not even gonna listen to them more than a handful of times.

-IrOnBuLL-
04-06-2007, 08:40 AM
aite let me jus say somethin here
thru-out the yearz of the wu, i can rightfully say that ghost iz
the hardest workin wu-member out there, possibly except for meth
in the earlier dayz yeah ghost waz raw. now look at him, he'z up in his 30's
or somethin, so of course he and most of the other memberz are gonna
lose some of their strength that thei had back in the day. iz all part
of growin up. plain and simple. "fishscale" or "pretty tony" or some of his other
recent albumz might not be az good az his "ironman" or "waterproof walletz"
but still i give him some credit. he still tryin to get the wu-tang name to
be declared on the streetz and in the hip hop culture. and i for one
iz givin him propz

faulty
04-06-2007, 09:36 AM
i understand what your saying with regard to some of his lyrics for me ironman supreme were him at his peak, i like wallets but after that i aint been that fussed. though you have to realise some of the shits he talks about ice and shit him and rae started that shit, it just now we over exposed to it. to be honest i feel thats half the problem is his over exposure and also hes aiming to be a big leaguer which is cool but i was looking forwad to the doom/ghost album more than more fish i think he fits into the underground/indie scene better and he and def jam gotta realise there's no shame in that. but back to my point during 98-99 i wasnt feeling meth cos he was all over the place and i think the same happens with ghost. cos when someone else comes in that you havent heard in a while its refreshing at the mo im really feeling rae and gza. the formers got his hunger back but once he gets linx 2 out and the wu album hopefully things will even out cos right now it seems the media and the fans put there faith in ghost and forget that back in the day it wasnt about any individual each contributed equally. still hes defo top ten best emcees dead or alive purely for ironman and sc

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:07 AM
For the life of me I cannot see what warrants all the hype about Ghost for the last few years. 'Ironman' was classic, SC was excellent, and since then he hasn't released anything that's cracked the average rating imo. 'Bullet Proof Wallets' was more or less horrible. 'Pretty Toney' was ok. Had a few good songs. There were a few good tracks on the Trife and Theodore Unit albums. And 'Fishscale' and 'More Fish' are 2 of the most forgettable albums I have heard. They have no appeal whatsoever to me.

Out of all the generals Ghost has been the least appealing to me over the last few years. I would be more excited about a new U-God album than a new Ghost album. 'Fishscale' and 'More Fish' were both purchased with no interest whatsoever, merely to add to my Wu collection, as a collector of Wu albums. They both lived up to my low expectations. He also almost ruined 'The W', although he came through on 'Iron Flag'.

I find it strange how in the mid-to-late 90's he was basically just another tight Wu member who created little fuss as an individual, even though he was 'spitting flames', and now that he's become average and boring people act as if he's some sort of God.

And don't kid yourself, a lot of his lyrics are more or less identical to what those mainstream artists you all pretend to loathe, are writing. My homeboy quoted one of his recent tracks in an email to me, and I asked him if it was a G Unit song or something, only to have him tell me it was a Ghost track. I really don't see what separates him from all those average chart rappers, lyrically. I can't remember the last Ghost verse I heard where the lyrics actually stood out to me. I really can't.

And spare me the childish insults and all that bullshit. I know how some Ghost fans are. This is just my opinion and if you don't like it then feel free to tell me so in a civilised manner. I just wanted to see if anybody here is feeling me, and agrees with what I'm saying. Because I know there are people out there who also feel that Ghost has become entirely unappealing.


ive been feeling like this for the last few years, and people are always saying how ghost is the most consistent member, its completely wrong.

"Bullet Proof Wallets", "Pretty Toney" and The fish album are just average to decent material, people throw the word classic around when talking about these albumbs and its totally unwarranted.

when "Fish Scale" came out i was really looking forward to buying it because of all the hype about it being "classic" and then found that there were about 5 or 6 good tracks and some ok ones, with the rest being throw aways with ridiculous lyrics. fucking "Be Easy" is such a terrible track, and it got wide praise as a great crossover in terms of mainstream hip hop, and anyone who didnt like it was "a nerd". i mean just listen to the fucking chorus, its rubbish.

ghost post SC started to sound whiney also, im not sure what happened to his voice but although i can tolerate it, its still irritating. when "Grand Masters" came out everyone talked about how terrible gza's flow was (no one cared about lyrics) but never once have a seen someone on this site discuss the fact that ghost face has gone through reverse puberty.

ghosts flow is still great, and basically this seems to be all that matters to fans.

murkoutz
04-06-2007, 10:09 AM
ill give you bulletproof wallets, that wasnt his best effort but after that he kept getting better and better. that song with amy winehouse takes me back to wild flower and cant front on 9 mili brothers as forgetable "yall be nice to the crackheads"

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:22 AM
see thats the thing, "Fish Scale" and "More Fish" have good moments, when the beat is good and the mc's flow is on point.

however i think it has to be admitted that the albums are half efforts, leading up to "Fish Scale" as i said earlier my anticipation for the album was high, not just because of the hype, but also the pporduction line up and featured mc's, "9 Mili Bros" seemed like wu would be getting back to making good music togeher.

and what do we get? and album full of beats from Doom and Dilla which are reused (although i understand with dilla that was cool, but i prefered the tracks as they stand alone on 'Donuts') and 9 mili bros, with re used verses, a terrible verse from cappa, and average verses from other generals which seem to have be phoned in. a track which should have been great was just another ok track.

Ghost seems concerned with getting material out there, and i dont really think he can be criticised considering the nature of hip hop these days with the mixtape scene etc. but think about an album which combined the great tracks from Fish Scale and More Fish... ghost is just rushing stuff out, and compromising his music to cater in a way which he thinks will appeal to a wider market.

when is "Swift & Changeable" coming out? this album would be crazy, as long as the beats are doom originals. but instead we got "More Fish" which is flooding with Theodore filler (although i like trife alot), the creation of a rap group based around a member from another group borders on ridiculous.

yeah anyway, of ghost releases the collab album with doom with original beats i will be happy.

SaqurakiHanamichi
04-06-2007, 10:26 AM
ghost is not at his prime. His prime was supreme clientele . He erupted at the top of his level then went down hill a bit,and he cant go back to 2000

Just like nas nasty illmatic style he cant do it twice.


Its done man, u wont get tony starks again. Ghost deini that shit is gone .

THE W
04-06-2007, 12:09 PM
ghostface has been rather unimpressive. he has yet to make an album that i thought was really great since SC. fishscale was dope but far, far from classic. people who say he's the most consistent leave me scratching my head.

i believe hold heartedly that he can still kick a mean ass verse(ie real nillaz, block rock) but he's been trying to appeal to a broader audience so he has watered down his content to do so.

as far as his W performance, i agree that it was pretty forgettable, but so was the performance of the other members with the exception of raekwon and method man. the W was all around a lackluster lyrical effort by the clan.

ghostface still has it but he may be stretching himself too thin.

murkoutz
04-06-2007, 12:33 PM
ok so now everybody hates ghost. whats hot if not ghost?

RADIOACTIVE MAN
04-06-2007, 12:40 PM
i agree with noel,i just couldnt listen to Ghost after bulletproof wallets and i got even more pissed off when i wasted my good earned money on fishcale and more fish....

DR. NICK RIVIERA
04-06-2007, 12:42 PM
I was always more of a GZA & RZA fan, but again, I could never say Ghost is wack, just sometimes he's above average, sometimes not...I found it strange with Ghost, I like The Pretty Toney Album, but this album is rather inconsistent

Jeru
04-06-2007, 12:45 PM
I thought Ironman was ok.Supreme Clientele was great but Bulletproof Wallets was ass.He redemed himself alot with Pretty Toney ( wich I really like ) but Fishscale was beh.A few good tracks but overall unimpressive.The Theodore Unit album was good but More Fish was just booty.I'm glad I just downloaded it.I always thought he was one of the least out of the clan allthough he was good in their hey day.His rhymes didn't do anything for me cuz basically I couldn't understand 80% of the things he said.

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 12:49 PM
You know how I know ghost hasn't fallen off? People keep making threads like this. You don't see many U-god hate threads, because he isn't worth talking about. Any time an artist wishes to diversify his catalogue and expand his audience, especially a Wu-Tang artist, he has fallen off. Whatever, keep up the good work ghost.

Jeru
04-06-2007, 12:51 PM
You know how I know ghost hasn't fallen off? People keep making threads like this. You don't see many U-god hate threads, because he isn't worth talking about. Any time an artist wishes to diversify his catalogue and expand his audience, especially a Wu-Tang artist, he has fallen off. Whatever, keep up the good work ghost.

LOL there was a time not so long ago where there indeed were U-God hate threads

RADIOACTIVE MAN
04-06-2007, 12:53 PM
ohhh man,i remember the Ugod hate season...yall aint seen shit yet till you see those threads,they really got him

AcidPhosphate69
04-06-2007, 12:57 PM
I like Ghost cuz his flow is dope but I do agree. SC has had pretty much full rotation in my CD player for a long time now and More Fish and Fishscale just make guest appearances once in a while. While, I must commend the man for really trying to bring back the Wu...I think bringing it back would be appealing to the people who know that mainstream hip-hop isn't the be all, end all of rap.

hide1998
04-06-2007, 12:58 PM
ok so now everybody hates ghost. whats hot if not ghost?

Co-sign. :mmmyah: This is one of the most puzzling threads I've read on this forum. I use to think, especially among Wu fans, that Ghostface was unanimously regarded as a consistent artist. Even his worst album is well above average. Not saying he needs to be your favorite Wu member (let alone favorite MC) or anything, but Ghost is clearly a very creative artist who still keeps you guessing as to what he's going to add to the mix. His wordplay has become much more focused since Supreme Clientele, which in retrospect is a bit of an oddball album in terms of Ghostface's lyrics compared to his other works. The most hardcore Ghostface haters always say "Ghostface is wack because he doesn't make any sense. None of his lyrics on Supreme Clientele make any sense!!" And that's the ONLY album from which that argument applies. Ghostface himself said he doesn't understand all the lyrics on Supreme Clientele. He was, however, perfectly understandable, albeit less versatile than nowdays, on Ironman. His albums post-Clientele are also perfectly understandable. Unlike alot of artists with several albums under their belts, BPW/Pretty Tony/Fishscale sound nothing alike. That alone should earn Ghostface props for no being boring. Also, since when does every album have to be in the same style as Ironman or Supreme Clientele to NOT be considered great?

Saying Ghostface fell off is really like saying Nas fell off. Sure he's not spitting like he was on Illmatic, but during those days he wouldn't have put together tracks like Black Zombie or Rewind. Same with Ghostface. Sure he's not spitting like he was on Ironman, but during those days he wouldn't have done tracks like Underwater or Tony Montana. Ghostface has expanded well beyond the dimensions of stuff he use to spit. His flow speaks for itself, and is MUCH sharper now than it was on Ironman (flow-wise he isn't much different now than how he was on Clientele, but he switches it up more than he did back then). His topic range has become much broader and, in alot of ways, more underground. I hardly see how that's a bad thing considering even if he was spittin' like 50 he wouldn't go double platinum regardless.

Somone please move this to the Bring Da Rukus section, where it belongs.

Meph
04-06-2007, 12:59 PM
Are all of his verses worthy of Ironman or SC? No.

But UNLIKE the other Wu members, he is actually releasing material with some promotion.

It took one of them 15 years to figure out how to compete in the music industry. If Method Man had released 421 in the same manner of Fishscale, that would have probably been the album of the year.

harm77
04-06-2007, 01:00 PM
i just hate his flow nowadays. he sounds like shit all whiny and slow. he use to sound so amped like he was ready 2 fuck a nigga up. he fell off big time as far as im concerned. at one point i thought he was the greatest wu member. he aint even in my top three anymore.

hide1998
04-06-2007, 01:03 PM
i just hate his flow nowadays. he sounds like shit all whiny and slow. he use to sound so amped like he was ready 2 fuck a nigga up. he fell off big time as far as im concerned. at one point i thought he was the greatest wu member. he aint even in my top three anymore.

How was he NOT whiny on Supreme Clientele? If you claim to enjoy his flow on that album, how can you not enjoy his flow nowadays (furthermore, nowdays, flow-wise, he switches it up much more than he did back then). You're straight up lying sayin' his flow is slow nowdays (at least, it's no slower than it was on Supreme).

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 01:04 PM
LOL there was a time not so long ago where there indeed were U-God hate threads

but, not anymore right? That's my point. Who's waiting for Mr. Xcitement 2? You guys are waiting for ghost to drop a couple more albums so you can bash him some more.

zeppelin2k
04-06-2007, 01:05 PM
fishscale had bangers
more fish has some nice tracks

the fact is, he can rip most rappers out today, you put him on a track with someone else, he will shine if not outshine the rest

na diel
04-06-2007, 01:11 PM
"how the fuck was you thinkin?
you think I fell off the ledge
the legendary ghostdinni might be dead?
neva impossible! pull out black burners like tonsils"
nuff said...

Unforgiven
04-06-2007, 01:14 PM
I've never thoroughly enjoyed Ghost as much as I did on Ironman and Supreme.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 01:26 PM
You know how I know ghost hasn't fallen off? People keep making threads like this. You don't see many U-god hate threads, because he isn't worth talking about. Any time an artist wishes to diversify his catalogue and expand his audience, especially a Wu-Tang artist, he has fallen off. Whatever, keep up the good work ghost.



see i dont get the obsession with diversification or experimentation. i like experimental music alot, an artist that constantly changes what they do interests me, but experimentation for the sake of it useles if the music doesnt sound good. ghost's experimentation with more mainstream stuff on the fish albums didnt sound good imo. listen to the first verse on "Be Easy" to know what im talking about.

im not hating on ghost, as i said i liked a few tracks of both of his recent album, i just can't how people call him consistent. the quality of his work changes alot, not only from album to album, but during albums.

its not about hating on him, i just think he needs to make some better decisions in terms of style, beats, concept etc.

in the end as with everything music related it is subjective, i guess some people may like his new stuff more than older shit which is fair enough. but he is not consistant.

THE W
04-06-2007, 01:49 PM
but, not anymore right? That's my point. Who's waiting for Mr. Xcitement 2? You guys are waiting for ghost to drop a couple more albums so you can bash him some more.
with ghostface its a mixed bag.

one half of fans think he's one of the greats and the most consistent, the other half think he hasnt done anything that good since supreme clientele.

everyone pretty much agrees that u-god's albums arent that good so there's no need to constantly debate on something that everyone agrees upon.

Jeru
04-06-2007, 02:00 PM
Golden Arms Redemption is a classic

LordReveal
04-06-2007, 02:02 PM
I somewhat agree with the thread starter. Although I still think Ghost is one of the best, he still has it lyrically, his subject matter seems to be the same throughout his last few albums. Fishscale was his last great album, not taking anything away from More Fish, but Fishscale is really great (notice I didnt say classic. It's a great album. Supreme Clientele is classic.) I think he needs to chill a little with all the cocaine stuff. But then again, maybe it's Def Jam, as someone else previously stated. Young Jeezy & Rick Ross is what's selling these days so it could be that Def Jam is pushing Ghost into that direction. His past couple of albums have all been strictly cocaine talk (save for a few songs like "The Strap", "Underwater", "Greedy Bitches" and "Alex"). I think he should of left it at that on Fishscale and came with another theme on More Fish. It sounds like he's taking steps backwards instead of forwards. Whatever happened to the feelings you would get when you first heard "Cobra Clutch" or "Mighty Healthy".

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 02:02 PM
everyone pretty much agrees that u-god's albums arent that good so there's no need to constantly debate on something that everyone agrees upon.



one thing ive learnt from this forum is that everyone disagrees about everything.

there are people who really like "Mr. Excitement".

THE W
04-06-2007, 02:11 PM
Golden Arms Redemption is a classic

i too think its a spectacular album. but even GAR doesnt get that much love. certainly more than his last 2 albums.

one thing ive learnt from this forum is that everyone disagrees about everything.

there are people who really like "Mr. Excitement".

a great majority dont however, but yeah every single person isnt gonna like or dislike anything.

i've seen dudes on here say that cuban linx is average and that liquid swords sucked.

biblebullet
04-06-2007, 02:14 PM
Whatever

Razorsharp
04-06-2007, 02:14 PM
Curse this fucking forum. It is IMPOSSIBLE to have a decent discussion here nowadays. IMPOSSIBLE.

take it easy noel... :D...

ok, i can see partly where you are coming from... fishcale was ok... but i dont see how you dont like More Fish... i love that album... ghostface's lyrics now dangle on mainstream turf, but i feel that he does it in a unique way, and perhaps everyone still praises ghost because he is consistent?? and he constantly keeps releasing new shit... and when your favorite artists releases new shit, and is nothing like how they originally came out... some people are mad and dont listen to them anymore and then the others think ... "hey its still ghost" and with that in mind they still picture him as lengendary.


im not saying ghost has fallen off, but maybe is writing lyrics to keep up with the flow of music... peace my aussie homie... :D hit the waves

tekunique
04-06-2007, 02:25 PM
FishScale > MoreFish

More Fish had too many fillers and too much Trife, he starts sounding the same after a while.

Jet Set
04-06-2007, 03:00 PM
I have to say that since the 718 Mixtape I havent purchased any new Wu albums. Avid collector before that, but my financial situation chanegd up a bit, and it just wasn't worth it all.

Over here in Holland Fishscale was hailed by much of the hiphop community s a classic. Everybody found it great. A first listen made it nice. BUt the longevity just wasn't there. Alot of the beats somehow didn't feel right of just too simple for words. Lyrics didn't caught on.

The album wasn't an album it was a mere collection of Ghost songs put together. With the average stand out of high light there to be excited about. But the overall was just so press forward. It sort of had the same empty feel Pretty Toney left you with after four months. The time that you forgot that he even released an album.

More Fish suffered a similar faith. It could have been a way better album if more than half of the tracks were cut off. The EP format or combination with Fishscale would have suited it better. The albums tasted like Fastfood.

Not too long ago I started a thread about how Ghost needed more Psychedelic productions. As stated my problem with Ghost was more production wise. That is the first thing that captures my mind lately as I did not find the time to sit through the albums and listen to the lyrics.

Personally I still digged a record like Bullet Proof Wallets. That was the last one album that truely felt like a solid record. The distinctive sound throughout the record is so clear. There´s alot to be said about the released version and the cut cuts. For me it´s still great.

Pretty Toney was the one that sky rocketed the media with Ghost fetish. Sure it was nice to hear Ghost rap over the Delphonics record. At the end, the album didn´t hold together. A person can only digest so many tastes at a time.

Just maybe, a common factor between all these albums is. Wu involvement and production. Just maybe. Sure Supreme Clientele had a whole collection of different producers, difference there is they remained working with the same sound for all of it. That ear went missing with Raekwons watch.

Jeru
04-06-2007, 03:03 PM
i too think its a spectacular album. but even GAR doesnt get that much love. certainly more than his last 2 albums.
...

Yeah I know and that's sad, but can't argue with opinions

Jet Set
04-06-2007, 03:34 PM
but, not anymore right? That's my point. Who's waiting for Mr. Xcitement 2? You guys are waiting for ghost to drop a couple more albums so you can bash him some more.
We don´t anymore because it all peaked at one point. We went over the hill and saw through the looking glass. Everything needed to chill. The comedy had taken his tool on U-God and the quality of the forum.

And I am most certainly waiting for U-God to drop something that feels good. Where we can hug him again and leave the jokes about Mc Donalds behind us/me.

I think you have to been there at the time to understand the situation we went through here. Every topic had a U-God reference.

the silencer
04-06-2007, 03:45 PM
i cant believe how many response this got already..

but i can't really disagree with the original post...i didnt like Bulletproof Wallets, hated Pretty Toney (although alotta the tracks that didnt make it onto the album were fire), Fishscale was ok but i get annoyed by it, and i didnt even get More Fish...

Ironman and SC are 2 of my fav albums of all time so i aint a Ghost hater...i thought Charlie Brown was some of his illest shit in a long time..he fuckin murdered that.....other than that though, most of his stuff hasnt been that special..he doesnt really have the crazy rhyme style anymore, he sounds not too diff from every1 else and i cant stand it when he sings on tracks...............

i think whenever the Swift n Changeable album comes out it will be amazing tho....

harm77
04-06-2007, 04:21 PM
How was he NOT whiny on Supreme Clientele? If you claim to enjoy his flow on that album, how can you not enjoy his flow nowadays (furthermore, nowdays, flow-wise, he switches it up much more than he did back then). You're straight up lying sayin' his flow is slow nowdays (at least, it's no slower than it was on Supreme). Your a dickhead. I just stated my opinion on Ghost these days. That's not me lying u faggot. Look up the word lying in the dictionary you stupid groupie.

Jeru
04-06-2007, 04:34 PM
Your a dickhead. I just stated my opinion on Ghost these days. That's not me lying u faggot. Look up the word lying in the dictionary you stupid groupie.

Dead right.

Olive Oil Goombah
04-06-2007, 04:49 PM
I thought More Fish was an above average album. I think you are all too picky when it comes to this.
I know its hard not to compare every album to SC and Ironman, but come on.
Ghostface is the ONLY member of Wu Tang coming with any sort of substance these days aside from Masta Killa(we'll see about Rae).
Fishscale is a good album. There are some bangers on there. ANd like I said, I don't get the hating on More Fish..that album is raw as fuck.

Ghost's voice has always been high pitched and whiny. I don't know what some of you are really getting at. No ones voice sounds the same over time.

Ghost has been consistent. He might not be hitting .400 with all his albums, but he is a consistent .300 hitter. Every MC makes wack song, has wack verses, so that comparison to 50, u could do that with anyone.
ITS ABOUT DELIVERY TOO. Alotta dudes got rhymes, but there delivery sucks.

I don't think all ghostaces albums are classics. Fishscale was just alright, but it was far from wack.

Back Like That was a good song, I dont understand who would bitch about it. AND it got played on the radio, that is a feat in and of itself for the Wu.

I just don't think that Ghostface is deserving of a thread like this because he really hasn't fallen off at all. A guy like Nas, yea, u could say he fell off somewhat...but then again..it was written, I am, and Lost Tapes were still pretty dope. You cant hit a homerun with every album.

SaqurakiHanamichi
04-06-2007, 04:53 PM
harm77 u took the words out of my mouth


oh btw the reason i listened to wu was cause of ghost.

chiba
04-06-2007, 05:33 PM
ghost is still on of the best mcs out there today

theres no real comp

you would expect nas, ghost, jay-z etc to raise the bar to shine over everyone else

leaguer1
04-06-2007, 08:20 PM
To me his albums are roughly 6, 7, 7.5, 8, 9, 10. Basically he's run the gauntlet. He's done it all. I don't really expect more than three real good solo albums in a decade from anyone. It just isn't normal. Everything he does now is just icing on the cake. He's always good on the Clan albums. And he's always good on the Clan member's albums.

I just wish he'd sing a lot less and I don't feel Theodore Unit at all.

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
04-06-2007, 08:37 PM
blaaa blaaa blaaa

noel411
04-06-2007, 09:51 PM
ghost post SC started to sound whiney also, im not sure what happened to his voice but although i can tolerate it, its still irritating Definately feeling this. I used to have big issues about this around the time the PT album dropped, and just prior to that.
cant front on 9 mili brothers as forgetable Yes I can actually. That song is fucken shit and I really wish it had never been put together. To think we finally get another track with all Wu members and it's over a fucking RECYCLED DOOM BEAT! That makes me sick. On top of that the song sounds like shit.
Also, since when does every album have to be in the same style as Ironman or Supreme Clientele to NOT be considered great?This is putting words in my mouth in the same fashion as SO many people on forums do when such things as this are discussed. Just because I said they were his only 2 great albums it DOES NOT at all suggest that I expect everything he releases to sound like those albums.
he sounds like shit all whiny and slow. he use to sound so amped like he was ready 2 fuck a nigga upVery simply put, but yes, I absolutely agree with this. I liked the Ghost we heard on 'Da Mystery Of Chessboxin'', 'Criminology', 'Wildflower' etc. I haven't heard that for many years. Age is a motherfucker though. I'd put that down to age.
you put him on a track with someone else, he will shine if not outshine the restI really could not disagree with this more.
i dont get the obsession with diversification or experimentation. i like experimental music alot, an artist that constantly changes what they do interests me, but experimentation for the sake of it useles if the music doesnt sound goodFeeling this.
take it easy noelYeah sorry, I jumped the gun a bit after that first guy got upset. This thread has actually had a good response.

11th Chamber
04-06-2007, 10:13 PM
people like this cat above me are what is bringin down this forum.

How is someone from Ausi allowed to have an opinion on hip hop?

you can say whatever the fuck u want back, I aint comin back in this shit thread anyways

noel411
04-06-2007, 10:17 PM
people like this cat above me are what is bringin down this forum.

How is someone from Ausi allowed to have an opinion on hip hop?
Number 1 contradiction of '07.

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 10:17 PM
Yes I can actually. That song is fucken shit and I really wish it had never been put together. To think we finally get another track with all Wu members and it's over a fucking RECYCLED DOOM BEAT! That makes me sick. On top of that the song sounds like shit.



wow, never heard so much bs in my life. That track is absolute fire. The verses and beat are absolutely sick. after listening to most of your maddening commentary on this thread, I conclude you are just a hater unwilling or unable to expand his mind or horizons. Shame on you for even starting this thread. At least ghost puts the time and effort in to try and produce a lot of material. While I agree that its not all great, I don't see in any way that ghost has fallen off. On the contrary I think he has more fans then ever before.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:19 PM
edit: response to 11th chamber

in terms of artist integrity:

new aussie hip hop > new us hip hop.

over here people make music they think is good, instead of music they think other people will buy.

so i think an australian opinion is as valid as any other.

continue to believe you know more than other people.

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 10:19 PM
and i'm actually glad u aren't one of 'em

Paranoid
04-06-2007, 10:25 PM
fishscale is great

r.a.g.u, kilo, shakey dog, the champ, 9 milli bros, beauty jackson, whip you with a strap, be easy, clipse of doom, and dogs of war are all bangers. I don't know why people dont like it

More Fish isnt nearly as good in my opinion but its still good

Paranoid
04-06-2007, 10:26 PM
the track with biggie is the shit too on fishscale

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:28 PM
9 Mili Bros. should have been a great track, instead its half arsed.

cappas vesre is terrible, gzas is recycled, deck sounds terrible.

the beat is average also, and recycled.

Scáth Bán
04-06-2007, 10:29 PM
new aussie hip hop > new us hip hop.

I agreed with everything but that. There are great new American hip-hop artists, better than most Aussie hip-hop in my opinion. Now if you're talking about like American 'Commercial' Rappers vs. Hilltop Hoods i would completely agree with you.

noel411
04-06-2007, 10:33 PM
wow, never heard so much bs in my life. That track is absolute fire. The verses and beat are absolutely sick.
It's bullshit because you don't agree with my opinion on that track? I'm not allowed to think it's a poor track because you think it's tight? The beat is nice, but I got sick of recycled Doom beats a good year or so before this album dropped. And it's poorly mixed, sounds cheap, and is about the most lackluster effort a Wu fan could have expected from such a line up.

after listening to most of your maddening commentary on this thread, I conclude you are just a hater unwilling or unable to expand his mind or horizons
Great. You're absolutely entitled to conclude whatever you want. I can tell you that this is a fairly poor conclusion though. People seem to think that just because I don't like Ghost's more recent stuff, I don't like anything that doesn't sound like early Ghost material. People ought to think more.
Shame on you for even starting this thread. At least ghost puts the time and effort in to try and produce a lot of material. While I agree that its not all great, I don't see in any way that ghost has fallen off
Yes Ghost puts out all this music for us to listen to and discuss, so if I wanna express my thoughts on it in an honest manner I really don't see why anybody should be bothered by it. I DO see that Ghost has fallen off, and I have every right to say so here on a Wu-Tang discussion forum.
On the contrary I think he has more fans then ever before.
So do I, and I expressed that in my initial post. I mentioned my being puzzled as to why people started acting more and more like Ghost was some sort of God as his product seemed to go further and further downhill. It's not just people on Wu forums I refer to, it's the hip hop community as a whole. Like I get newsletters from UGHH where they say how absolutely fantastic Ghost is and quote an average verse, whereas there is no way in hell that would have happened back in the 90's when he was dropping much better material.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:33 PM
yeah it was a bit of an exaggeration, i mean mainstream artists i guess, but more underground acts/cross over acts do that shit to. example = wu.

for the majority of crossover (Ghost, Meth, Jay, NaS, Mobb Deep) artists in the US it is a prerequisite to have a "radio track" or an "rnb track" on your album. this has always annoyed me alot.

noel411
04-06-2007, 10:41 PM
edit: response to 11th chamber

in terms of artist integrity:

new aussie hip hop > new us hip hop.

over here people make music they think is good, instead of music they think other people will buy.

so i think an australian opinion is as valid as any other.

continue to believe you know more than other people.
You really shouldn't bother addressing comments such as the one that guy made. Here's a legendary noel411 jewel, haha...

It's a pity to see so many people using that whole Aussie thing to discount peoples opinions on here. I guess you get that when you have a forum with so many sheep and bandwagon jumpers on it. The irony of such comments is that though the intention is to discredit my opinion, such foolishness only serves to instantly invalidate your own opinion.

Crackhead Bob
04-06-2007, 10:45 PM
You really think you are all knowing when it comes to artistic merit don't you? So lets see he gets more and more fans but the material gets worse and worse, O.k. that makes tons of logical sense. You must be right. I wholeheartedly apologize. Don't bother to respond. I'm done with this nonsense. I'm goin to listen to more fish again

AcidPhosphate69
04-06-2007, 10:46 PM
Without a doubt, he's better than most rappers out today and I still love his songs but hoenstly, SC was classic and I think we all want those days back.

Sidenote, how fucking dope would it be to have Ghost and Sean Price do an album together? That would be fucking insane.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:50 PM
You really shouldn't bother addressing comments such as the one that guy made. Here's a legendary noel411 jewel, haha...



haha, thanks for dropping a gem on me,

i always know people are in trouble when they try to argue by saying "your from australia, you lost".

oh well, these people will probably never learn.

Scáth Bán
04-06-2007, 10:52 PM
SC was classic and I think we all want those days back.

I know where you're coming from. Most Wu-Tang Clan fans are the same, they want 8 Diagrams to be like "Enter the 36 Chambers", they want all it to be like the good ole' days. I used to think like this too. Then I realized, if I wanted to listen to the Old Sound I can just pop those albums into the stereo. There's no need miss the old days, and must realize that artists are always trying to advance and not redo what they have already done.

noel411
04-06-2007, 10:53 PM
You really think you are all knowing when it comes to artistic merit don't you? So lets see he gets more and more fans but the material gets worse and worse, O.k. that makes tons of logical sense. You must be right. I wholeheartedly apologize. Don't bother to respond. I'm done with this nonsense. I'm goin to listen to more fish again
Don't get upset, dude. I'm just trying to have a serious debate here. Do you expect me to just read your opinion and then pretend I agree with everything you said? I'm not trying to suggest my opinion is fact, and there is no reason why you should suppose I am. If you don't want to debate with me then don't, but don't get upset and frustrated just because you don't like what I'm saying.

So lets see he gets more and more fans but the material gets worse and worse, O.k. that makes tons of logical senseAnd really, come on man. You think this suggestion is unlikely? I could name plenty of artists who this applies to. You seem to be forgetting that people ARE NOT logical.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-06-2007, 10:55 PM
Sidenote, how fucking dope would it be to have Ghost and Sean Price do an album together? That would be fucking insane.

yeah would be tight, sean p picks good beats.

i was thinking right, that sean p is the perfect example of a cross over artist who has got it right. every beat off his new album ranges from decent to great and his lyrics are consistantly good throughout. he has changed his entire style from back in the bcc and heltah skeltah days, but has done it in a way which is still good. all mc's should note what he has done imo, he still discusses mainstream subjects, but with humour and sarcasm.

and to think people use the term "back packer" as an insult.

noel411
04-06-2007, 10:59 PM
I know where you're coming from. Most Wu-Tang Clan fans are the same, they want 8 Diagrams to be like "Enter the 36 Chambers", they want all it to be like the good ole' days. I used to think like this too. Then I realized, if I wanted to listen to the Old Sound I can just pop those albums into the stereo. There's no need miss the old days, and must realize that artists are always trying to advance and not redo what they have already done.
I just want to hear some good, appealing music. I would much rather hear something that sounds fresh and original than something that takes it back to the old days. The catch is that fresh and original isn't enough if the music is not appealing.

hide1998
04-06-2007, 11:38 PM
yeah would be tight, sean p picks good beats.

i was thinking right, that sean p is the perfect example of a cross over artist who has got it right. every beat off his new album ranges from decent to great and his lyrics are consistantly good throughout. he has changed his entire style from back in the bcc and heltah skeltah days, but has done it in a way which is still good. all mc's should note what he has done imo, he still discusses mainstream subjects, but with humour and sarcasm.

and to think people use the term "back packer" as an insult.

It's interesting you bring up Sean P's ears for beats. If you check out the opinions on alot of other forums most seem to think the beats he uses from 9th Wonder and other Justus League producers are too "soft" (aka boring). Not that I agree (I thought his newest album was really good, and his first album was better), but Sean P's ear for beats is not something I generally read being complimented (unlike Ghostface, who, outside of this puzzling thread, generally gets complimented everywhere).

Longbongcilvaringz
04-07-2007, 12:03 AM
i dont really see what your point is, no offense intended.

why does it matter what people on other forums think, in my experience other hip hop forums (the large ones at least) are full of bullshit.

ghost is one of the better members from the wu in terms of picking beats, but his last few albums have been very inconsistant throughout in terms of beats. there were some really good beats on fishscale followed by terrible tracks... thats all i was saying.

sean p's album has consistant dope beats.

Scáth Bán
04-07-2007, 12:10 AM
What's up with the hate on DOOM's beats? I know they're recycled, and do believe that Ghostface's "whiny" style sounds better over harder/grittier beats, but I still believe MF is one of the best producers out there.

hide1998
04-07-2007, 12:22 AM
i dont really see what your point is, no offense intended.

why does it matter what people on other forums think, in my experience other hip hop forums (the large ones at least) are full of bullshit.

ghost is one of the better members from the wu in terms of picking beats, but his last few albums have been very inconsistant throughout in terms of beats. there were some really good beats on fishscale followed by terrible tracks... thats all i was saying.

sean p's album has consistant dope beats.

My point is your opinion of Sean P's ears for beats is definately in the minority (although I agree with you about his consistant dope beats), and outside of this thread, generally speaking, as is your opinion about Ghostface's ears beats (that's where I disagree with you).

Also you claim other hip-hop forums are full of bullshit. There is certainly something to that, but this forum isn't without it's bullshit (take this thread for example, which would be much better suited in the bring da ruckus forum with all the other "Is Illmatic really a classic??" type of ish).

J-DON
04-07-2007, 02:17 AM
I dont like every single thing hes done but still one of my favourite MC's...


Dissing hollow bones is just crazy though. Great flow and Narratives from all MC's involved in that track over an ill ass loop.

I can understand dissing the Holocaust verse (although I personally love the ridiculousness of it)


My problems with Fishscale was that there were pretty much no Hard sounding beats in it except for Clipse of Doom. Every beat was just pretty good samples with not too much done in terms of Drums which works sometimes but not over an entire 20+ track album. Id have loved to hear some more menacing type shit.


Id rather have had the best from More Fish and Fishscale on one album, that would have been one Really Great album instead of one pretty good one and one that I just picked around 6 tracks for my ipod from.

noel411
04-07-2007, 02:22 AM
Dissing hollow bones is just crazy though. Great flow and Narratives from all MC's involved in that track over an ill ass loop.
I didn't diss the track. Deck and Rae killed it. I just can't stand Ghost's verse.

ian barclay
04-07-2007, 03:06 AM
ghostface needs some bronze nazareth beats

SKANK HILL
04-07-2007, 03:55 AM
haha 11th chamber get back in your cage ...

haha noel411 ... typical parra supporter ... def somtin in the water out west for sure ... ahaha just playin ...

noel got a point ... to a degree ... ironman isnt classic imo ... SC is ... BW is muff ... pretty toney is good but not classic either ... more fish is 5/10 at best ... fishscale is ghost equivalent to the W ... pretty good but instead of talkn how dope it is u left to ponder how dope it could of been ... but ghost has been keeping wu on the map ... if it wasnt for ghost wu wouldnt be in hardly anyone's fuckin mouths ... he's been the hardest working motherfucker in the clan ... almost as if hes the only who gives a shit ... maybe excluding GZA ...

Golden Arms Redemption > Fishscale > More Fish :tease:

yeh motherfuckers i said it ... what ...

Jeru
04-07-2007, 04:39 AM
Golden Arms Redemption > Fishscale > More Fish :tease:



Ya goddamn right :yes:

Jet Set
04-07-2007, 06:03 AM
I see alot of discussion going on here. One of the main things though is the inability of alot of people here to have a civilized constructed discussion. I mean somebody can not like the entire Ghostface catalogue just because it isn't his tate of music. That man is still right in his opinion. There is no absolute truth, in my opinion. If there is, I think you are not right here in this open forum.

fo·rum http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fforum) /ˈfɔrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm, ˈfoʊrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm, fohr-uhhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun, plural fo·rums, fo·ra http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fforum) /ˈfɔrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngə, ˈfoʊrhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fawr-uh, fohr-uh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation. 1.the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people. 2.a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion. 3.an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest. 4.the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.
Awell, this in itself is a discussion.
Just lay off the irrelevant arguments like questioning his credibility on place of residence. That has nothing to do with the discussion going on and his placement of argument within the discussion.

Doom beats.
I think they're boring. The loops are too simple. And the announcing they are on a Ghost album, only to discover they are re-used beats is even worse. Heard it all Before Ghost. Yes, I am anxious for new stuff. Not boring re-used stuff.

9 Milli Brothers
It had me amped when announced. Then I listened. I listened again. Was this a Clan track? OR were these vocals slapped together via email. Put them in Pro Tools, mix them, we got a track. The rapped for the moment.

This is only speculation, but this track sounded like a example of one of the bigger problems circluating. Artists & Producers not working together in the same space on the same track. I just think you can hear the difference. And somebody like Ghost is plagued by it, so was Meth. Interaction is missed.

ZiG 9th
04-07-2007, 07:20 AM
You know how I know ghost hasn't fallen off? People keep making threads like this. You don't see many U-god hate threads, because he isn't worth talking about. Any time an artist wishes to diversify his catalogue and expand his audience, especially a Wu-Tang artist, he has fallen off. Whatever, keep up the good work ghost.




lmao!!!! Are u serious??? U must hear an see somethin different than what i do? It should be extremely obvious to most if not all that Ghost has taken a turn for the worst an has fallen off. Although a great album, but Ghost has been declining since Supreme Clientele. Ghost has yet to make an album better let alone equal to IRONMAN. If u take a look back Ghost fell off more an more each album. B/c u could even see on SC where Ghost was headed. Although not bad the Cher chez laghost song an video got his commercial buzz going and since then he's been tryin to break down the door to the commercial world. Itz funny tho! With all of his commercial efforts they still front on him. He still can't break thru.


I dunno if yal notice or not but Ghost sells less records now than he did in the past. Every album that drops now he's one video and done! Correct me if i'm wrong but when IRONMAN dropped Ghost had like 3 video singles off of that classic album! He's puttin out more material than ever nowadayz, but my question is? Who is it reaching? What kind of impact is it making? Nobody cares about what Ghostface drops anymore. Regular people come up to me they see that i'm a wu-head, they wanna talk to me about Ironman and how sick that album is! They don't wanna talk about BPW or Pretty Tony. They don't even know those albums exist.

ZiG 9th
04-07-2007, 07:39 AM
And i see all of this talk about how Ghost is the most consistent? Consisitent what? Just b/c he drops severly average/mediocre album after album? He's the most consistent at declining over the years. U probably could say u-god? But U-god doesn't have alot of albums like ghost to judge so yea it is ghost. IMO Ghost is just one big band wagon that people love to ride on for whatever reason i dunno y? When ghost was at his best.....'95 (cuban linx)....'96 (ironman)....'97 (Wu-tang Forever) he never got the kind of love that he's gettin now! Itz weird! In that 3yr...3 album spand Ghost might've been the illest emcee within the clan or in hiphop in general. Ghost was on fire in that era!


And before i go i wanna address the one kid that said the Ironman lp was just "ok"......



I dunno man i looked at ur age i see that ur only 21. So u were only 10yrs old when IRNMN dropped. U might've been too young for that album or somethin? Or maybe u weren't even into wu back then? But u just had to be in that era! I know every1 has their own opinion but daaamn just "ok"??? Are u serious?? IRNMN reigns supreme in Ghost's catelog! Thatz a certifiedd Wu-classic! It had all of the right elements and ingredients! U can say IRNMAN is a spin off of Cuban Linx.....if u think about it? Itz like it was already Cuban Linx 2 before rae even came out with it. Like a continuation from where ob4cl left off.

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
04-07-2007, 09:01 AM
what aload of bullshit

ghostface is critically acclaimed - that means he is respected for being highly talented and is dropping quality albums. You don't agree with most critics in hip hop so don't be talking as if ghost being wack now is the excepted truth. Its your opinion - that means you don't like his recent style. If ghost was really mediocre then that would be the general consensus and he wouldn't be so acclaimed. btw if you say you don't give a fuck about the critics - they have more sway than you

The truth is ghost receives the most hate here, by wu fanatics that believe he is some kind of traitor for moving on. Infact I haven't seen any hate on ghost other than this forum.

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
04-07-2007, 09:03 AM
wow...no comment on this thread...

madstyles
04-07-2007, 10:00 AM
ghost has already said he cant spit or write as fast as he once could so to expect him to spit like he did pior to bullet proof is just unfair.

Even though ghost isint as dope as he use to be he's still one of most consistant mc's in the wu-tang. How many wu members have arguably 2 classics and a string of albums that range form solid to good? ONE, GHOSTFACE.

THE W
04-07-2007, 10:01 AM
while i believe the thread starter had good intentions, the direction this thread is going is making it bring the ruckus material.

bottom line, ghostface is going a direction that has split his listeners. some like where he's going and some dont and there isnt much in between.

ShaolinDarts
04-07-2007, 10:52 AM
I love the way Ghost fans go to such lengths to justify Ghost. So now Ghost is hot because no one made a thread about U-God? Yeah right!

num2son
04-07-2007, 10:54 AM
Released to many albums, maybe.

hide1998
04-07-2007, 10:57 AM
Glad to see this thread moved to the right place.

*awaits the "GZA Fell Off & Became Boring" classic thread to further add to my puzzlement*

Olive Oil Goombah
04-07-2007, 11:02 AM
To even try to compare U-God to Ghostface is kinda not realistic.

He is better, judging by fans, and material, and critically acclaimed material and also non critically acclaimed material.

Not everyone is going to like Ghost, more often than not they will, but he HAS been a part of at least 4 classic albums on which he was a HUGE part, not just a bit player. So that alone cancels out any wackness.

Dante
04-07-2007, 11:52 AM
I agree with the thread starter. Ghost hasn't dropped a solid album since Supreme Clientele. But i know he still has it in him to drop another good album. I wish he would spit more like he did on that one "Blow His Head Off" joint off of DJ Green Latern mixtape; That's the Ghost i'm feeling.

Jeru
04-07-2007, 11:55 AM
To even try to compare U-God to Ghostface is kinda not realistic.

He is better, judging by fans, and material, and critically acclaimed material and also non critically acclaimed material.

Not everyone is going to like Ghost, more often than not they will, but he HAS been a part of at least 4 classic albums on which he was a HUGE part, not just a bit player. So that alone cancels out any wackness.


You're sayin U-God was a bit player on Enter?I couldn't imgane Da Mystery of Chessboxin' and Protect Ya Neck without his contributions.IMO he wasn't a bit player.

Jeru
04-07-2007, 11:56 AM
I love the way Ghost fans go to such lengths to justify Ghost. So now Ghost is hot because no one made a thread about U-God? Yeah right!


Co-sign

Crackhead Bob
04-07-2007, 02:03 PM
I think I owe it to ghost to post AMG's reviews of his albums since many think he has fallen off. Remember these are what MUSIC CRITICS think, not me.

Ironman 4.5 out of 5
Supreme Clientele 4.5 out of 5
Bulletproof Wallets 2.5 out of 5
Pretty Toney Album 3 out of 5
Fishscale 4.5 out of 5
More Fish 3.5 out of 5

It seems to me that if anything, Ghost fell off and climbed back up. Look you may not like Ghost's style or content, but denying that he is an incredibly original emcee with an unbelievable diverse catalogue is just wrong. All artists are criticized for change and Ghost is just feeling the worst of that change in this thread.

Jeru
04-07-2007, 02:10 PM
I think I owe it to ghost to post AMG's reviews of his albums since many think he has fallen off. Remember these are what MUSIC CRITICS think, not me.

Ironman 4.5 out of 5
Supreme Clientele 4.5 out of 5
Bulletproof Wallets 2.5 out of 5
Pretty Toney Album 3 out of 5
Fishscale 4.5 out of 5
More Fish 3.5 out of 5

It seems to me that if anything, Ghost fell off and climbed back up. Look you may not like Ghost's style or content, but denying that he is an incredibly original emcee with an unbelievable diverse catalogue is just wrong. All artists are criticized for change and Ghost is just feeling the worst of that change in this thread.

Everybody's a critic.Were just getting slammed cuz we dare to critisize Ghost on a Wu board full of wu dickriders.

Crackhead Bob
04-07-2007, 02:12 PM
I'm not slamming you just pointing something out, chill homie.

and you're right everybodys a critic, but these guys get PAID to criticize music and do it for a LIVING.

Jeru
04-07-2007, 02:17 PM
I'm not slamming you just pointing something out, chill homie.

and you're right everybodys a critic, but these guys get PAID to criticize music and do it for a LIVING.

LOL it wasn't directed @ you man.Sorry if you thought so.

SKANK HILL
04-07-2007, 02:18 PM
what aload of bullshit

ghostface is critically acclaimed - that means he is respected for being highly talented and is dropping quality albums. You don't agree with most critics in hip hop so don't be talking as if ghost being wack now is the excepted truth. Its your opinion - that means you don't like his recent style. If ghost was really mediocre then that would be the general consensus and he wouldn't be so acclaimed. btw if you say you don't give a fuck about the critics - they have more sway than you

The truth is ghost receives the most hate here, by wu fanatics that believe he is some kind of traitor for moving on. Infact I haven't seen any hate on ghost other than this forum.

LMFAO ... where the fuck were you when every second thread in the wu chamber used to be a u-god diss ? ... sorry to break off from the ghost shit ... but the only reason u-god gets hate is because everyone dick rides RZA and takes RZA side of the 'beef' ... not because u-god is wack but because when RZA goes up against u-god all the stans take RZA and automatically hate on u-god ... ghost didnt fall off on BW he fuckin fell down the stairs and had to crawl through a shit sewer to make it back to fell off status on PT ... then he redeemed himself - barely - on fishscale and tripped over two left feet on more fish ... and no one has the fuckin balls to say ghost isnt what he used to be ... yeh we all here cos we love wu but when wu drops shit it has to be said regardless how much we love em ... bottom line is the biggest catalouge doesnt make the best one ... infact the best shit ghost has put out since SC was put it on the line with trife ... ghost is like meth ... tight as fuck on a wu joint with the others but isnt shit on his own anymore ...

Megaman
04-07-2007, 06:20 PM
Most of y'all just hate ghost cuz he is not using wu prodcution, that's all.Ghost is the only Wu MC that doesn't need wu production to sound good. Most of the Wu Dickriders are Ghost haters. They rather listen to U-God or some crappy wu fam rappers. This is sad.

morgan
04-07-2007, 06:31 PM
Yeah i agree in that Ghost has got sort of boring. I think a fair bit of rap music got boring to be honest. But i cannot agree with you on your points that Ghost nearly ruined The W and BW was horrible. I just cant. He made the W for me, fuckin hell man his verse on i cant go to sleep nearly chokes me up. And BW is a classic in my eyes, it makes real good listening and its got everything. Ghost isnt a corny guy i just think, with BW not selling fuck all, he had to sell some albums. Dont be surprised if a bit of hate lights a flame under his arse. Hope so, coz he's capable of the most abstract shit since Picasso man! Thats where his real talent is, with his abstract shit, surely he must know that. IMO.

Because hes trying to make so much sense its seriously affecting his flow aswell. Shits embarrasing sometimes

noel411
04-07-2007, 07:34 PM
what aload of bullshit

ghostface is critically acclaimed - that means he is respected for being highly talented and is dropping quality albums. You don't agree with most critics in hip hop
It is really of no concern to me what critics say. I consider my opinion to be every bit as valid as any critic's. That's not ego. It's just the way I view the world. You wouldn't understand.
so don't be talking as if ghost being wack now is the excepted truth. Its your opinion
I don't know how many times I have to repeat that what I'm saying is only my opinion. On top of that, should one really have to point out that every fucking thing they say is opinion? Man that annoys the shit out of me. Of course everything I'm saying is opinion. Can't we all just assume that? Do I have to put an "imo" on the end of every comment I make?
If ghost was really mediocre then that would be the general consensus and he wouldn't be so acclaimed. btw if you say you don't give a fuck about the critics - they have more sway than you
As above.
The truth is ghost receives the most hate here, by wu fanatics that believe he is some kind of traitor for moving on
I couldn't care less about that. To tell the truth I don't even know a thing about it. I don't follow the Wu anymore. I never even browse the Wu chamber or read the news page anymore. I just buy the music when it drops.
How many wu members have arguably 2 classics and a string of albums that range form solid to good?
None.
while i believe the thread starter had good intentions, the direction this thread is going is making it bring the ruckus material.
That's cool Wade.
I love the way Ghost fans go to such lengths to justify Ghost. So now Ghost is hot because no one made a thread about U-God? Yeah right!
It's utter insanity it is.
I think I owe it to ghost to post AMG's reviews of his albums since many think he has fallen off. Remember these are what MUSIC CRITICS think, not me.

Ironman 4.5 out of 5
Supreme Clientele 4.5 out of 5
Bulletproof Wallets 2.5 out of 5
Pretty Toney Album 3 out of 5
Fishscale 4.5 out of 5
More Fish 3.5 out of 5
It's good that you dug this up, but once again, my first comment in this post still applies. These would be my ratings...

Ironman 5/5
SC 4.5/5
BPW 2/5
PT 3/5
FS 2.5/5
MF Haven't heard it enough to give it a proper rating.
Look you may not like Ghost's style or content, but denying that he is an incredibly original emcee with an unbelievable diverse catalogue is just wrong
I don't really think he's all that original. It's not like he's ever done anything ground breaking or revolutionary. And his lyrics are not original in the least. Not only that, but on some occasions he has followed trends in hip hop. I will agree that he has a diverse catalogue though.
Most of y'all just hate ghost cuz he is not using wu prodcution
I couldn't care less about that. I'm really not fazed at all by which producers he uses, as long as he makes appealing music. Which he has not been doing imo.

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
04-07-2007, 08:04 PM
lmao ur are right! I don't understand your ignorence to the rest of the world

noel411
04-07-2007, 08:10 PM
lmao ur are right! I don't understand your ignorence to the rest of the world
Like I said, you wouldn't understand. Don't disrespect me and make judgements and assumptions about me just because you can't relate to my way of thinking.

I also think your opinion is every bit as valid as any critic, believe it or not.

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
04-07-2007, 08:13 PM
fine dude i wasn't replying to u earlier but 2 zig

noel411
04-07-2007, 08:16 PM
That's cool. I'd just prefer to keep it civil in here. I'm not trying to stir anybody up.

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
04-07-2007, 08:25 PM
fishscale weaker than pretty toney?? wow

noel411
04-07-2007, 08:35 PM
fishscale weaker than pretty toney?? wow
I might actually say that 'Fishscale' is a more well rounded album than PT, but unfortunately it still has no appeal whatsoever. That's why I would give it a lower rating than PT. PT's an ok album. I'll still give it a spin every now and then. 'Fishscale' I really have no desire to ever hear again. Appeal is so very, very important.

Crackhead Bob
04-07-2007, 08:57 PM
fishscale = 2.5 lmfao

noel411
04-07-2007, 09:03 PM
fishscale = 2.5 lmfao
Does this comment really have any validity at all? Is this any different to if I laughed at people who rated it HIGHER than 2.5?

The answer to both questions is "no".

noel411
04-07-2007, 09:08 PM
Why is it that nobody has come up with a decent argument against what I am saying here, yet? The only good posts in this thread that contained substance and relevant observations have been in accordance with what I'm saying at least to some degree, or have offered valid insights as to why what I say might be so.

Think about that.

THE W
04-07-2007, 09:17 PM
the only opinion that holds any weight is a majority consensus opinion. a professional critics opinion has no more or no less validity then the next dude. its just their own personal opinion, except they get to have their opinion put in a magazine for everyone to see and we dont.

like jay-z said:

"i dont believe you, you need more people"

noel411
04-07-2007, 09:24 PM
a professional critics opinion has no more or no less validity then the next dude. its just their own personal opinion, except they get to have their opinion put in a magazine for everyone to see and we dont.

It's a pity how something so blatantly obvious and logical as this is not recognised by all.

Crackhead Bob
04-07-2007, 10:05 PM
Why is it that nobody has come up with a decent argument against what I am saying here, yet? The only good posts in this thread that contained substance and relevant observations have been in accordance with what I'm saying at least to some degree, or have offered valid insights as to why what I say might be so.

Think about that.

what the hell am i supposed to say to you? what relevance can i bring to the conversation that you won't just brush off? You've obviously made up your mind. What can I say to change it? Almost everything you have said in this thread has been cliches and rhetoric. So how am I supposed to compete with that?

Crackhead Bob
04-07-2007, 10:08 PM
the only opinion that holds any weight is a majority consensus opinion.


So what is the consensus? Not the opinion of this thread, I don't believe. Fishscale is almost gold now. So get 500,000 people to say he's wack on this thread and I will cosign on the dotted line. Until then....GHOST IS THE SHIT. So take a big whiff.

noel411
04-07-2007, 10:15 PM
what the hell am i supposed to say to you? what relevance can i bring to the conversation that you won't just brush off? You've obviously made up your mind. What can I say to change it? Almost everything you have said in this thread has been cliches and rhetoric. So how am I supposed to compete with that?
Maybe there is nothing you can say? I'd be open to a good explanation of what makes Ghost's more recent releases exceptional, or what makes Ghost's form over the last few years exceptional, or what separates Ghost from other mainstream artists lyrically, but I'm yet to see one.

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
04-07-2007, 10:24 PM
or what separates Ghost from other mainstream artists lyrically

wowwwww lol

you must not listen to the radio much at all

noel411
04-07-2007, 10:36 PM
I don't and never would. I listen to an aboriginal community radio station at work. I would sooner die than listen to a commercial radio station or watch a music videos show.

But yeah, by mainstream I don't mean pop music. I mean commercial hip hop like G Unit and whoever else is popular these days.

hide1998
04-08-2007, 12:17 AM
Why is it that nobody has come up with a decent argument against what I am saying here, yet? The only good posts in this thread that contained substance and relevant observations have been in accordance with what I'm saying at least to some degree, or have offered valid insights as to why what I say might be so.

Think about that.

I'm so shocked you feel that way:stroke:

noel411
04-08-2007, 12:24 AM
I'm so shocked you feel that way:stroke:
It's not to say that all other posts in this thread were worthless, just that nobody has offered a solid argument against what I'm saying.

hide1998
04-08-2007, 12:29 AM
I don't and never would. I listen to an aboriginal community radio station at work. I would sooner die than listen to a commercial radio station or watch a music videos show.

But yeah, by mainstream I don't mean pop music. I mean commercial hip hop like G Unit and whoever else is popular these days.

Wait a sec, are you implying that Ghostface is no different from G-Unit? Whoa...now you've completely lost any logistical cred to your argument of Ghost falling off. The fact that you can't distinguish between the stylings of Ghostface and G-Unit speaks VOLUMES for your interpretation of lyrics and style.

Could you list some G-Unit tracks that are at all like say....

Alex, Underwater, Metal Lungies, or Fire.

Hell, I'll throw you one even easier (as I'm sure you'll quickly cop out of the above). Tell me ANY MTV beloved MC that has any recent tracks like the above.

Your simplistic arguments along the lines of "Nothin' I haven't heard from Nelly, T.I., Snoop, or Jay-Z" or brush off lines to advert answering the question like "The radio and MTV play shitty music, so I don't listen/watch any of it" hardly fall into what can be described as posts with "substance and relevant observations."

noel411
04-08-2007, 12:41 AM
Like I've said several times, I'm not talking about G Unit specifically. I don't even know any of their music aside from 50's albums. I just use them as an example because I don't know any commercial hip hop. I'm just talking about general commercial hip hop. Shit that I catch here and there on tv or in shops or whatever. Just your typical bland, cliche, boring standard bullshit lyrics. And I know Ghost has songs where he's written lyrics that are more thoughtful and original than that sort of shit, but I'm not talking about every one of his songs. I'm talking about him over the last few years as a lyricist in general. I'm sure those other chart rappers have a few worthwhile lyrical songs on their albums too.

And please lay off those ridiculous exaggerations and stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anything to suggest I think "Ghost is no different than G Unit". I said there is nothing that separates him from most commercial rappers, lyrically. So please stop stretching my words. I'm tired of having to explain myself more than I should have to.

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 01:00 AM
1st of all if you don't listen to g-unit at all then how can you use them as an example? That argument is bogus. And you say nothing lately of ghosts has any substance... I beg to differ.

Shakey dog
RAGU
big girl
holla
alex (stolen script)
underwater
Whip you with a strap
Momma
Ghost is back
guns and razors
street opera
josephine
you know im no good
charlie brown
kilo

and I would bet dollars to donuts you haven't even heard half these tracks. Stop speaking in generalities and bring some real evidence to the table. Show examples of why ghost has fallen off. Post lyrics and break them down. Don't just say you know what, I haven't heard much of more fish but i think ghost has fallen off and gotten boring. I have absolutely nothing to back this up other than my boy sent me some lyrics from a bad song and now my mind is made up. Ghost is Wack. Show and prove son,show and prove. You can say my posts have been very opinionated and I admit they have, but at least I've tried to back that shit up. Most of your arguments have been maligned by your inability to look past your own hatred for ghost.

there. I gave you 15 solid arguments.

hide1998
04-08-2007, 01:03 AM
I would sooner die than listen to a commercial radio station or watch a music videos show.

But yeah, by mainstream I don't mean pop music. I mean commercial hip hop like G Unit and whoever else is popular these days.

Thinking Ghost isn't as good as he was back in the day is one thing, but you certainly can't link him to what you have (I'm directly quoting you here) pigeon holed him into above.

That alone should signifying he's anything but boring. One of things I purposely did was list a track for a different album to demonstrate how for EVERY Ghostface album he isn't doing what anyone else is doing. That should demonstrate right off the bat that Ghost goes against the grain of "commercial hip hop."

You say "I'm talking about him over the last few years as a lyricist in general" which might really mean something if those were the ONLY tracks from said album for which Ghost goes left, while everyone else is going right. But that's not at all the case. I could list more and more tracks but since you've clearly made a very stubborn stance about Ghost it feels as though it would be met with something along the lines of,"Yeah, all those tracks are ok, but those are the ONLY tracks he has going for him," no matter how many are listed (thus disproving your "lyricist in general" argument).

But, then again, since my opinion is not in line with yours I'm sure, like so many others, it'll be brushed off as having "nothing relevant with substance to say." Sad, but as the history of this thread has demonstrated, it's likely to happen.

noel411
04-08-2007, 01:44 AM
Oh for fucks sake, I'm just going around in circles here.
1st of all if you don't listen to g-unit at all then how can you use them as an example?
I am not talking about G Unit specifically. I am talking about commercial hip hop in general. Let me repeat that again...

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT G UNIT SPECIFICALLY.

How many times am I gonna have to say it?
And you say nothing lately of ghosts has any substance.
No I did NOT say this. I said Ghost's lyrics IN GENERAL over the last few years offer no more than other commercial artists.

Please, please note the IN GENERAL. There is a big difference between IN GENERAL and NOTHING.

Once again, how many times am I gonna have to repeat this?
and I would bet dollars to donuts you haven't even heard half these tracks
I don't know song names well, but I have heard all his albums and shitloads of unreleased tracks too. I find that a lot of the unreleased ones are actually pretty good. Pity he doesn't use them to spice up his albums, which is what we're talking about here.
Stop speaking in generalities and bring some real evidence to the table
This thread is about Ghost in general, so I will continue to speak in generalities.
Show examples of why ghost has fallen off. Post lyrics and break them down
You have every right to suggest I do that, and it would certainly serve to solidify my argument, but the truth is that I really just couldn't be bothered going to such lengths right now.
Don't just say you know what, I haven't heard much of more fish but i think ghost has fallen off and gotten boring
I've heard the whole thing a couple of times, and I had no desire to ever hear it again. I think that is a great indication of his becoming boring.
I have absolutely nothing to back this up other than my boy sent me some lyrics from a bad song and now my mind is made up
You people just fucking love to exaggerate and put words in my mouth don't you? This is just such a ridiculous comment I really shouldn't have even bothered acknowledging it.
Most of your arguments have been maligned by your inability to look past your own hatred for ghost
Wow. My "hatred for Ghost". I don't "hate" Ghost at all. I just think he's become a very average artist and completely lost appeal. Why would I hate him? What an incredibly loose usage of such a powerful word.

hide1998, I'll take that post as an "agree to disagree" statement and accept it.

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 01:59 AM
"I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT G UNIT SPECIFICALLY."


are you talking about g-unit specifically?


"How many times am I gonna have to say it?"


one more time please


"No I did NOT say this. I said Ghost's lyrics IN GENERAL over the last few years offer no more than other commercial artists."


well maybe not those exact words but i was paraphasing.


"Please, please note the IN GENERAL. There is a big difference between IN GENERAL and NOTHING. "


Yes there is In general means nothing


"Once again, how many times am I gonna have to repeat this?"


one more time please


"I don't know song names well, but I have heard all his albums and shitloads of unreleased tracks too. I find that a lot of the unreleased ones are actually pretty good. Pity he doesn't use them to spice up his albums, which is what we're talking about here."


cop hidden darts


"This thread is about Ghost in general, so I will continue to speak in generalities."


why? thats such a weak argument.


"You have every right to suggest I do that, and it would certainly serve to solidify my argument, but the truth is that I really just couldn't be bothered going to such lengths right now."


well now there it is. I ask you for evidence and you have no response at all.


"I've heard the whole thing a couple of times, and I had no desire to ever hear it again. I think that is a great indication of his becoming boring."


No, I think its a good indication of you not liking ghost.


"You people just fucking love to exaggerate and put words in my mouth don't you? This is just such a ridiculous comment I really shouldn't have even bothered acknowledging it."


I'm just reiterating the bullshit you are spewing. It may not be word for word, but you said it in so many words, but hey if i'm getting to you and that vag of yours is starting to itch, just rub a little dirt on it and get back in the game champ.


"Wow. My "hatred for Ghost". I don't "hate" Ghost at all. I just think he's become a very average artist and completely lost appeal. Why would I hate him? What an incredibly loose usage of such a powerful word."


If you liked him you wouldn't start this thread would you?


Are you tired of this bullshit yet? I'm not. mwahahahahahahahahah

show and prove. otherwise your entire argument is baseless.

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 02:11 AM
and for god's sake, puuuulease stop backpeddling. It's really annoying and pointless. You don't always have to take every word we say and prove that you are right. try bringing something new to the table, otherwise this thread is through.

GENERAL WISE
04-08-2007, 02:13 AM
Congrats on your second ever Platinum Thread.
but this thread is getting boring.

noel411
04-08-2007, 02:24 AM
Are you tired of this bullshit yet? I'm not. mwahahahahahahahahah

show and prove. otherwise your entire argument is baseless.
Yes I am tired of this shit and have been for some time now. If you're gonna be a smart arse and disrespect me then I'm not prepared to waste any more time on this.

There is nothing for me to "show and prove". This thread started out with me expressing my opinion that Ghost has lost appeal and dropped in form. I wanted to see if anybody here felt the same as me, and I have now seen that a lot of people do.

I also mentioned that a lot of Ghost's lyrics over the last few years are in the same light as other commercial artists, and you now want me to post examples to back this up. I have told you that I do not wish to take the time to do this, and if you think this invalidates my argument then you have every right to feel such a way. I really don't care, and I'm not gonna bother wasting any more time to try and change your opinion.

GENERAL WISE
04-08-2007, 02:37 AM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782116&postcount=319

noel411
04-08-2007, 02:41 AM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782116&postcount=319
Haha, what the fuck is this?

And how come you know how many "platinum threads" I have when I would have no fucking idea myself how many I have? What's a "platinum thread" anyway? I'm guessing it's 10+ pages?

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 02:45 AM
Oh, believe me you had no chance of changing my opinion. I'm just trying to bring a contrasting opinion to yet another blast ghost thread, but since you are clearly annoyed with my presence I'll leave you in peace. I would just like to say in conclusion that change is good. Diversity is good. Reaching new people is good. And experimentation with different sounds and styles is definately good. Ghost does all this, and I'm just pleased as punch. Ghost has nothing to prove to me. If he retired tomorrow he would still go down in history as one of the best artists (not just hip hop) that has ever lived. But he still continues to amaze me with his range and talent. If you don't believe anything I've said believe this. Most of the most beloved artists on the planet are as loved as they are hated. Ghost is no exception. peace.

ps Do me a favor, close your mind and give fishscale one more try. please. thats all i'm asking. Many many critics named it the top hip-hop album of the year and Rolling Stone magazine had it ranked 4th out of all music in 2006. Now for that to happen many of the smartest musical minds had to vote that way. Is that not validation?

GENERAL WISE
04-08-2007, 02:46 AM
Haha, what the fuck is this?

And how come you know how many "platinum threads" I have when I would have no fucking idea myself how many I have? What's a "platinum thread" anyway? I'm guessing it's 10+ pages?

Platinum has been decided to be 100+ posts

Advanced Search.

Thread by user

with 100+ posts.

noel411
04-08-2007, 03:04 AM
Do me a favor, close your mind and give fishscale one more try. please. thats all i'm asking
I've tried this before and have regretted it every time. But yeah, I too feel I owe it to myself to give both 'Fishscale' and 'More Fish' another listen after doing this thread, so I will.

THE W
04-08-2007, 08:01 AM
So what is the consensus? Not the opinion of this thread, I don't believe. Fishscale is almost gold now. So get 500,000 people to say he's wack on this thread and I will cosign on the dotted line. Until then....GHOST IS THE SHIT. So take a big whiff.
well the consensus of this thread is half and half. as i stated before, ghosts listeners are split between love it and hate it without much in between.

where did you get that ghostface is almost gold from? what album, fishscale? that album fell off the hitsdailydouble charts at around 220K. thats not almost gold. its possible that he made up the difference by now but i dont see anywhere that says he's there or almost there.

please dont start using using sales numbers to justify people liking an artist. tical 0 actually DID go gold in a time where wu was putting out wood album after wood album and its hailed by many as his worst album. sales numbers determine who's hot, who people are checking for, but it doesnt mean that every single person who buys an album likes what they purchased. thats evident by this thread.

which is why there is no such thing as an instant classic. only instant hype.

Dante
04-08-2007, 09:29 AM
This thread has convince me that Ghost has the biggest dickriders.

Jeru
04-08-2007, 09:31 AM
beautiful rock, you're basing your opinions on critics and now on albumsales.

cd
04-08-2007, 11:47 AM
Noel, You are a player hating cum guzzling faggot. ANd I don't mean to insult faggots comparing them to you.

I will agree with some things. Ghosts rhymes have gotten lazier and more simple. But let's all face something too, sometimes he's always rhymed complete and utter nonsense....sounds good, but Holocaust gets hated on for the same poop.

He does tend to ruin songs a little going for stupid rhymes that don't really fit. He completely ruins Projects on Forever with his stupid sex rhymes, and his need for singing has to go. The last thing is he uses old recycled beats alot, and the rhyming over complete songs would be panned by fans if it were someone else. BTW no one seems to notice, But Shakey Dog is really just the beat from Pit Bull Fights off of Lex Diamond.

However a lot of the times he's entertaining and great at storytelling. Also when he wants to, he flow and subject matter are fantastic. I think he just got caught in the frustration Meth mentioned awhhile ago, when rappers write decent shit, but no one cares and just goes for the shitty stuff.

As Far as Fishcale and More Fish,They are both decent albums. They are not classic or great by any means, but solid albums with soe good creative points. I would never say Fishscale isnt a good album, but it's one that I really don't listen to at all. I do love Kilo, the Champ, With a Strap, and Underwater. He needs to stop recycling old Doom beats though. And 9 Mili was quite dissapointing. One other thing about Ghost is his ability to make good mainstream tracks. I think Be Easy and Back like that are good, although not tough enough for most rugged internet hip hop fans.

madstyles
04-08-2007, 11:56 AM
How did ghost fall of? if all his album post sc arent even average then you cant possibly think that ANY clan memeber album(besides ghost) after wu forever even reached garbage status. You say that his lyrics are more or less just like other "mainstream" rappers. Which rappers? give me examples homie. Or do you believe that just by saying its enough? Nope. Ghost isint what he use to be....but what do you expect? It's unrealistic and unfair to expect an ironman/sc level of consistancy. Besides since when has ghostfaces' lyrics been his strenght? He's always been dope lyrically but I always though his strenghts were/are his flow, and delivery. Those two things are the REASON supreme clientele is so dope. If anything ghost reverted back to his earlier day's....the only difference is he can't do some things like he use to. Song's like "beauty jackson" "whip you with a strap" "underwater" "shakey dog" "kilo" prove why ghost is still a dope mc.

IMO you are wrong. Do you see how easy it is to say that? and its even easier to say it when I believe I dont't have to make the effort to back up my "opinion".

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 03:43 PM
beautiful rock, you're basing your opinions on critics and now on albumsales.

What am I supposed to base it on, you assholes?

Actually I use that stuff to back my opinion, which is formed from actually listening to those albums 100's of times but thanks for assuming I just picked up rolling stone one day and declared FS the best album ever without listening to it.

Jeru
04-08-2007, 03:53 PM
What am I supposed to base it on, you assholes?

Actually I use that stuff to back my opinion, which is formed from actually listening to those albums 100's of times but thanks for assuming I just picked up rolling stone one day and declared FS the best album ever without listening to it.

I was stating the facts, all you did in here was say critics say this so he's a good rapper.Record sales say this so he's a good rapper.I also base my opinions like you said by listening to him.There's no point in trying to convert people who think otherwise.Deal with it.assholes LOL

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 04:11 PM
well the consensus of this thread is half and half. as i stated before, ghosts listeners are split between love it and hate it without much in between.

where did you get that ghostface is almost gold from? what album, fishscale? that album fell off the hitsdailydouble charts at around 220K. thats not almost gold. its possible that he made up the difference by now but i dont see anywhere that says he's there or almost there.

please dont start using using sales numbers to justify people liking an artist. tical 0 actually DID go gold in a time where wu was putting out wood album after wood album and its hailed by many as his worst album. sales numbers determine who's hot, who people are checking for, but it doesnt mean that every single person who buys an album likes what they purchased. thats evident by this thread.

which is why there is no such thing as an instant classic. only instant hype.

http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35201&highlight=484k

not a soundscan member so I can't be completely sure but he did drop 110,000 the 1st week. So youre tellin me he only doubled that # in a year? I doubt it.

Jet Set
04-08-2007, 04:11 PM
^hahaha @ Jeru

Hiphop went through a mainstream acceptance change in the last 10 years. There's alot more to stating facts from critics. Fishscale maybe in alot of top tens of hiphop. That just doesn't mean it is a good album. It's popular amongst those peoples. And maybe the rest just wasn't that good or even more terrible.

It's all in context and perspective.


Oyeah, I say GZA went way down. The man can barely hold a conceert any more, let alone rap his own tracks without gasping for breath. Age got teh better of him for some years now. HE made a fool of himself when he was in Amsterdam with the Clan rapping with one hand inside his pants.

THE W
04-08-2007, 04:32 PM
http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35201&highlight=484k

not a soundscan member so I can't be completely sure but he did drop 110,000 the 1st week. So youre tellin me he only doubled that # in a year? I doubt it.
116k actually, and his numbers went down dramatically the second week.

generalwise's word is hardly proof.

Jeru
04-08-2007, 04:35 PM
^hahaha @ Jeru

Hiphop went through a mainstream acceptance change in the last 10 years. There's alot more to stating facts from critics. Fishscale maybe in alot of top tens of hiphop. That just doesn't mean it is a good album. It's popular amongst those peoples. And maybe the rest just wasn't that good or even more terrible.

It's all in context and perspective.


Oyeah, I say GZA went way down. The man can barely hold a conceert any more, let alone rap his own tracks without gasping for breath. Age got teh better of him for some years now. HE made a fool of himself when he was in Amsterdam with the Clan rapping with one hand inside his pants.
Why hahaha at me?LOL, speaking my mind

Crackhead Bob
04-08-2007, 04:50 PM
116k actually, and his numbers went down dramatically the second week.

generalwise's word is hardly proof.

if he sold an average of 6000 copies a week after the 1st week, thats 300,000 copies. I can't imagine him not doing at least that. and yes u r right about wise.

Jet Set
04-09-2007, 05:15 AM
Why hahaha at me?LOL, speaking my mindAnd i thought you said it in a lol way, lol.:p


And if we want to incorporate soundscan numbers in this why don't we focus on his release of singles and how well they did. And how much singles and videos he got. As we are doing this, do acknowledge that the debate is shifting from our general opinion to that of a commercial succes facts one. In my opinion this doesn't say a damn thing about an album nowadays.

A point here is, the hype. Everybody was waiting for this album. It was released, one single one video, and it died. It showed up on top tens, but it wasn't like an all year round hitter. Ghost went out like a fire cracker.

THE W
04-09-2007, 04:26 PM
if he sold an average of 6000 copies a week after the 1st week, thats 300,000 copies. I can't imagine him not doing at least that. and yes u r right about wise.
no one knows what numbers dude did after he fell off the charts. we do know that there hasnt been anything official that says he went gold or is close to it so im just going by what information is there and are not spectulating or conjecting.

noel411
04-09-2007, 09:08 PM
Noel, You are a player hating cum guzzling faggot. ANd I don't mean to insult faggots comparing them to you.
Don't worry, bundles of sticks have no feelings. Do the knowledge.
But let's all face something too, sometimes he's always rhymed complete and utter nonsense....sounds good, but Holocaust gets hated on for the same poop.
This is true, but I am much more entertained by random nonsense than cliche hip hop topics.
He completely ruins Projects on Forever with his stupid sex rhymes, and his need for singing has to go
Agree wholeheartedly. Same deal with 'Strawberry', which was the only joint on BPW that had the potential to be really dope. Worst thing was that this shitty verse was recycled on 'The Problem'. As for his singing, it's like fingernails on a chalk board, only so much worse.
One other thing about Ghost is his ability to make good mainstream tracks. I think Be Easy and Back like that are good
Although let's not forget the pitiful and shameful efforts of 'Never Be The Same Again', 'Ghostshowers', 'Love Session', and 'Tush'.
if all his album post sc arent even average then you cant possibly think that ANY clan memeber album(besides ghost) after wu forever even reached garbage status
"Aren't even average"? Why do people keep exaggerating everything I say? It's incredibly irritating. And dude, just because you might think Ghost's post-'Forever' albums are better than any other Clan member, it doesn't make it the accepted truth. I think Gza's catalogue is far greater than Ghost's.
You say that his lyrics are more or less just like other "mainstream" rappers. Which rappers? give me examples homie.
Again I repeat that I don't know mainstream artists. I am talking about mainstream hip hop in general. As in Ghost raps about the same cliche shit you hear on the radio a lot of the time.
Or do you believe that just by saying its enough?
I'm not trying to convince anybody. I'm just sharing my observations.
Oyeah, I say GZA went way down. The man can barely hold a conceert any more, let alone rap his own tracks without gasping for breath. Age got teh better of him for some years now. HE made a fool of himself when he was in Amsterdam with the Clan rapping with one hand inside his pants.
Yeah, he's definately not what he used to be. I've heard he's put in some very dud live performances in recent years. Fortunately he put on a good show when he came over here last year.

Crackhead Bob
04-09-2007, 09:52 PM
I would just like to say in response of the so-called "stupid sex rhymes" comment, Ghost has always played the overt misogynist perfectly IMO. He picks up where 2 live crew and akinyele started and his rhymes are unforgiving and eye-opening. This is the truest sign of an artist. When you can not only cross the line but erase it all together challenging other artists to go further.

cd
04-09-2007, 10:05 PM
I would just like to say in response of the so-called "stupid sex rhymes" comment, Ghost has always played the overt misogynist perfectly IMO. He picks up where 2 live crew and akinyele started and his rhymes are unforgiving and eye-opening. This is the truest sign of an artist. When you can not only cross the line but erase it all together challenging other artists to go further.


Ha....now that is funny. Akinyele and the 2 Live Crew have their gimmick which is fine. Ghost on Wildflower or even on Stand Up w/Charlie Baltimore is fine. On other songs where it doesnt fit, no it's not good at all. And at times not done well. When the 2 live Crew did it it was erasing the line, bc hip hop wasn't explicit, there were only a handful of people with explicit lyrics. Ghost doing it now isn't being creative at all. Maybe you just like hearing him describe his dick. Which is cool. To each his own.

noel411
04-09-2007, 10:29 PM
Haha, word. I definately back cd's post. There is nothing creative about it at all considering the era where Ghost dropped those verses. It's just lame really. A grown man rapping explicit shit just for the sake of it. 'Wildflower' is possibly my favourite Ghost track. I think it's great. He's ripping on some ho who did him wrong. I can relate to that. But randomly spitting verses of that nature in a song like 'Projects' for example, is just really lame, inappropriate, uncalled-for and pointless.

Crackhead Bob
04-09-2007, 10:49 PM
okay thats cool, I voice my opinion, and get a homo joke thrown at me. But with a comment like that I just have to ask cd, where's your mind at?

cd
04-09-2007, 11:02 PM
okay thats cool, I voice my opinion, and get a homo joke thrown at me. But with a comment like that I just have to ask cd, where's your mind at?


Did I say anything about being a homo? That's just how you're taking it. You explained how you feel Ghost on Projects is completely artistic and eye opening. I personally think he sounds like a 15 year old plus it doesn't fit the song. So from that I take it you enjoy his rhymes about his dick, bc that's what it was. Doesn't mean you're gay, but I don't understand how you think it's great. So to each his own. Don't see how you got upset about it. It's what you said you like.

Crackhead Bob
04-09-2007, 11:08 PM
Did I ever once mention the song projects? Did I? I don't think so.

and you said "maybe you just like hearing him describe his dick." sounds like a jab to me, but if I misinterpreted your intentions, well who cares anyway? Why would you say that unless you had a couple skeletons in the old closet that needs some air?

RADIOACTIVE MAN
04-09-2007, 11:11 PM
micheal Jackson said to tell you guys that you all suck and cilvaringz album will go platinum if he has something to say about it

Crackhead Bob
04-09-2007, 11:12 PM
micheal Jackson said to tell you guys that you all suck and cilvaringz album will go platinum if he has something to say about it

heeeeeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeee

MJ^^^

cd
04-09-2007, 11:22 PM
Did I ever once mention the song projects? Did I? I don't think so.

and you said "maybe you just like hearing him describe his dick." sounds like a jab to me, but if I misinterpreted your intentions, well who cares anyway? Why would you say that unless you had a couple skeletons in the old closet that needs some air?


Haha, you are funny. You directly quoted and responded to my comments about Projects......So not only do you love hearing Ghost rhyme about his dick, are overly sensitive that someone might think you're gay, now you're fantasizing about me. Just admit it and release the burden. You'll be fine. There's nothing wrong with it.

MJ will probably love you more

EAGLE EYE
04-09-2007, 11:26 PM
Humpty Dumpty fell off a fucking wall and went splat.


What did Ghost fall off?



This is a riddle.

Crackhead Bob
04-09-2007, 11:29 PM
Oh so you do want my beautifulcock? Well I don't swing that way but maybe you can ask jasper whats up? I hear he's into 10 year old boys, which you clearly are. Grow up homophobe. It's 2007.

cd
04-09-2007, 11:32 PM
Oh so you do want my beautifulcock? Well I don't swing that way but maybe you can ask jasper whats up? I hear he's into 10 year old boys, which you clearly are. Grow up homophobe. It's 2007.


Man, if you wanna talk shit, kid, learn how to. Lackluster at best. Besides you were the one getting upset over the internet bc someone might of made a gay joke at you. So that actually makes you the homophobe doesn't it? Not funny and not bright....you fit in perfectly here....

Crackhead Bob
04-09-2007, 11:42 PM
I'm not upset at all. If you like attacking people you don't even know for voicing opinions contrary to yours that's fine. It really makes you look like a real intelligent person. You are the one who started with me remember?
I in no way was attacking what you said, just voicing an opinion. You deciced to jab at me, cool, whatever. At a staggering 124 posts you must know everything about everyone on here. I'm sorry I even questioned your omnipotence on here. I will leave you now so you can go back to thinking everyone else is wrong and your opinion is the only one that matters.

MAYOR QUIMBY
04-10-2007, 01:28 AM
I STILL cannot understand why some people do not like Fish Scale.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
04-10-2007, 01:41 AM
because he didn't do anything new on Fishscale..usually he did

Jet Set
04-10-2007, 10:34 AM
Humpty Dumpty fell off a fucking wall and went splat.
What did Ghost fall off?
This is a riddle.
Ghost fell off the plateau we raised him too. In our minds. We had him on level 8 Super Mario Bros. fighting King Koopa. And he tumbled back to the warpzones of level 1-2.
because he didn't do anything new on Fishscale..usually he did
He did Underwater. The beat just became boring after a bit. Although I did do the collage of the lyrics. The other songs on the album relied heavily on Ghost his story telling and back to the coke dictionary again. Now that was something we left behind. So we thought.


Noel,
Could I be that you grew older. And Ghostface went some other way. So that in that perspectivbe Ghost may still make good hiphop for people who are used to todays standards. We grew up on a different Ghost. With different sounds.

hide1998
04-10-2007, 10:52 AM
It's weird how noel completely abandons what he brings up to begin with. First he compares Ghost to all these mainstream hip-hop rappers (who go completely nameless until he mentions G-Unit), then gets asked by more than one person to give some examples and then he's all "Man, shit, I don't MEAN JUST LIKE G-Unit, I mean just stuff that comes on the radio." Let's not even forget the fact that, by his own admission, he doesn't listen to the radio (which should null and void his point all together), and then gets called out AGAIN for comparing Ghostface to mainstream rappers and goes all "Man, shit, I hate how you guys twist my words! I don't MEAN all mainstream rappers, just shit that comes on the radio." Rinse, lather, repeat. Furthermore, according to him, the only "relevant" points are those who manage to follow is circular arguments and co-sign his nonsense. I'm all for different opinions, but those co-signing his point of view should at least help him form an argument that isn't so circular in nature. Having an opinion, as an adult, means you can discuss and elaborate on why you feel the way you feel in a reasonable manner. Not everyone has to, or is going to, agree with you, but there is a level of reason to it that can't be denied. The fact he's completely unopen to differing viewpoints makes him sound like that kid in the park that says he's, "King of the Universe." When asked why he feels that way he's all "'Cause I feel like it, my opinion is just as good as yours." O...K.

I'm beginning to think him venting his "opinion" is more than likely just a shock thread that we have all fell for. He says the same things over and over again, and then doesn't back anything HE brings up.

Legendary
04-10-2007, 11:55 AM
Ironman and Supreme clientele are his best.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
04-10-2007, 12:44 PM
IMO More Fish is better than Fishscale...i feel that some songs become boring...(like Shakey Dog) on FS after few listens

Jet Set
04-10-2007, 05:13 PM
It's weird how noel completely abandons what he brings up to begin with. First he compares Ghost to all these mainstream hip-hop rappers (who go completely nameless until he mentions G-Unit), then gets asked by more than one person to give some examples and then he's all "Man, shit, I don't MEAN JUST LIKE G-Unit, I mean just stuff that comes on the radio." Let's not even forget the fact that, by his own admission, he doesn't listen to the radio (which should null and void his point all together), and then gets called out AGAIN for comparing Ghostface to mainstream rappers and goes all "Man, shit, I hate how you guys twist my words! I don't MEAN all mainstream rappers, just shit that comes on the radio." Rinse, lather, repeat. Furthermore, according to him, the only "relevant" points are those who manage to follow is circular arguments and co-sign his nonsense. I'm all for different opinions, but those co-signing his point of view should at least help him form an argument that isn't so circular in nature. Having an opinion, as an adult, means you can discuss and elaborate on why you feel the way you feel in a reasonable manner. Not everyone has to, or is going to, agree with you, but there is a level of reason to it that can't be denied. The fact he's completely unopen to differing viewpoints makes him sound like that kid in the park that says he's, "King of the Universe." When asked why he feels that way he's all "'Cause I feel like it, my opinion is just as good as yours." O...K.

I'm beginning to think him venting his "opinion" is more than likely just a shock thread that we have all fell for. He says the same things over and over again, and then doesn't back anything HE brings up.
This time was well spent argumenting your own opinion...

How come everytime I try to read into the pro's for Ghost, all I read is internet rants?

noel411
04-10-2007, 06:43 PM
Noel,
Could I be that you grew older. And Ghostface went some other way. So that in that perspectivbe Ghost may still make good hiphop for people who are used to todays standards. We grew up on a different Ghost. With different sounds.
It definitely plays a part in it. Considering I find almost no new hip hop appealing it is undeniable that it plays some part. But seeing how many people seem to feel the same or a similar way to me tells me that it’s also got a lot to do with the music Ghost is putting out.


Hide1998, I’m gonna do something new here and refuse to repeat myself on the commercial/G Unit thing. If you want an explanation for that you can find it in any number of my posts. Consider this though…If you didn’t listen to commercial radio or watch music video shows, would you still hear commercial hip hop in your day to day life? Some people in this thread don’t seem to be able to accept the idea that a discussion can be held speaking in general terms. Do you really think my quoting a few cliché Ghost verses is gonna prove anything? It would be exactly the same as you naming a few Ghost tracks that DON’T have cliché lyrics. It wouldn’t prove a thing. We’re speaking in general terms here and if you don’t like it then find another thread. It’s my thread and I set the intended direction of it, which was to discuss Ghost in general. Yes I could quote some cliché Ghost lyrics. Why don’t I?


It wouldn’t prove a thing.
I couldn’t be bothered.
I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything. Just sharing my observations.
The only reason I would do it is because a few individuals are demanding it. But those same individuals could and would complain about how it doesn’t prove anything if I did do it. And rightly so too, because it wouldn’t prove anything.
Digging up lyrics would take effort I’d rather avoid. And why would I be putting that effort in? Because a couple of people on here have asked me to. But I actually don’t give half a shit if these people don’t support my opinions, or think not quoting lyrics invalidates my argument. It just doesn’t bother me. Like I’ve said many times, I was just sharing my observations here and seeing if other people felt similar. I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything.
The fact he's completely unopen to differing viewpoints
I’m really not sure what warrants such a suggestion as this.

hide1998
04-10-2007, 09:29 PM
This time was well spent argumenting your own opinion...

How come everytime I try to read into the pro's for Ghost, all I read is internet rants?

How come everytime I try to read into the negatives for Ghost, all I read is internet rants?

See how simple that was?

Again, in my prior post I specifically mentioned how he (noel) continuously mentioned the same points again and again and again that HE (not other people) brought up to begin with. When asked, in one form or another, to elaborate or give examples of how that was the case, he backs out time and time again.

If that somehow translates to nothing more than an internet rant, then noel's posts are surely worse than that.....

Or, then again, you could be one those people who co-sign everything noel is saying which would make you, as noel himself put, someone with something "relevant" to say.

hide1998
04-10-2007, 09:44 PM
It definitely plays a part in it. Considering I find almost no new hip hop appealing it is undeniable that it plays some part. But seeing how many people seem to feel the same or a similar way to me tells me that it’s also got a lot to do with the music Ghost is putting out.


Hide1998, I’m gonna do something new here and refuse to repeat myself on the commercial/G Unit thing. If you want an explanation for that you can find it in any number of my posts. Consider this though…If you didn’t listen to commercial radio or watch music video shows, would you still hear commercial hip hop in your day to day life? Some people in this thread don’t seem to be able to accept the idea that a discussion can be held speaking in general terms. Do you really think my quoting a few cliché Ghost verses is gonna prove anything? It would be exactly the same as you naming a few Ghost tracks that DON’T have cliché lyrics. It wouldn’t prove a thing. We’re speaking in general terms here and if you don’t like it then find another thread. It’s my thread and I set the intended direction of it, which was to discuss Ghost in general. Yes I could quote some cliché Ghost lyrics. Why don’t I?

It wouldn’t prove a thing.
I couldn’t be bothered.
I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything. Just sharing my observations.
The only reason I would do it is because a few individuals are demanding it. But those same individuals could and would complain about how it doesn’t prove anything if I did do it. And rightly so too, because it wouldn’t prove anything.
Digging up lyrics would take effort I’d rather avoid. And why would I be putting that effort in? Because a couple of people on here have asked me to. But I actually don’t give half a shit if these people don’t support my opinions, or think not quoting lyrics invalidates my argument. It just doesn’t bother me. Like I’ve said many times, I was just sharing my observations here and seeing if other people felt similar. I’m not trying to convince anybody of anything.GZA is the greatest MC ever! Why? *sigh* I can't be bothered to explain why, he just is. Elaborating on that with some examples of why I feel the way I do, as an adult, would be pointless. Trying is the first step to failure anyway. No one would agree with me, so what's the point. Don't ask me why, I won't expand on it. I'm just stating my opinion.

Macy Gray is the worst singer ever! Why? *sigh* I can't be bothered to explain why, she just is. Elaborating on that with some examples of why I feel the way I do, as an adult, would be pointless. Trying is the first step to failure anyway. No one would agree with me, so what's the point? Don't ask me why, I won't expand on it. I'm just stating my opinion.

Jimi Hendrix is the greatest guitar player ever! Why? *sigh* I can't be bothered to explain why, he just is. Elaborating on that with some examples of why I feel the way I do, as an adult, would be pointless. Trying is the first step to failure anyway. No one would agree with me, so what's the point. Don't ask me why, I won't expand on it. I'm just stating my opinion.

You know what, I think I'm starting to get noel afterall.

noel411
04-11-2007, 01:50 AM
Why do you have to be so fuckin' ridiculous? Are you actually trying to pretend you don't see the absurdity of that post?

Let's go back to my first post. I said Ghost has lost appeal and his last few albums are boring and average. This is my OPINION. There is nothing to back up. Do I have to prove I really have this opinion? Ok, none of his albums since SC has made me want to continue listening to them after the first few listens, and very little he has done on any of those albums has impressed me. Can you accept that? Or are you gonna continue to come up with absurd bullshit about how I'm not allowed to say things like that?

The other thing I said is that a lot of his lyrics on recent albums are the same as what other commercial artists are writing. Hmmm, ok, this is more than just an opinion, so how can I prove it? Well, let's see. I could just find lyrics from a handful of Ghost songs and also a few songs by other commercial artists, of a similar nature, and post them here for comparison. But wait a second, anybody with the slightest bit of sense can see that that really wouldn't prove a thing. I'm sure even an utter fucking idiot would realise that you could do the same thing with almost any artist. Damn, there goes that idea. I guess I'd really have to dig up a solid portion of Ghost's recent lyrics and find a good many tracks from several commercial artists with similar lyrics to actually prove my point. But wait a second, I really couldn't be fucked doing that just to make a point to a couple of guys who can't accept the fact that someone doesn't like Ghost. After all, I was only making an observation to see how other people felt about it. I never considered that anybody would be so troubled by it that they would hassle me with bullshit non-stop, forcing me to repeat myself time and time again.

Do you understand my logic?

Crackhead Bob
04-11-2007, 02:40 AM
nobody i mean nobody writes like ghost, if u can prove that i'd like to see it. 50 cent couldn't even come close to writing something as profoundly absurd as underwater.

Sherz
04-11-2007, 07:58 AM
Sons is entitled to his opinion. Evendough its wrong, like gay man pregnant with twins. Sure Ghost has taken this though coke-selling-don-guy-who-still-cooks-for-his-lady-friend a bit to the extreme. But that's his shit. And within those lines, ain't nobody doin' like Ghost.

The rap game is filled, I repeat FILLED with coke rappers who seem to just waked up in a Scarface seqeunce while Cuban Linx is playing in the back. Even Busta is doin' it, goddamned! Why is Ghost still relevant? Why is even needed then.. The originality of coming off fresh in tired evironment.

And am not even goin' start about tracks like Whip You With A Strap & Underwater.

Still, I kinda agree with dude. I think that anything after Fishscale (am goin to ignore More Fish, sue me) would cost Ghost some props if he get on the same ol horse again.

hide1998
04-11-2007, 08:13 AM
Why do you have to be so fuckin' ridiculous? Are you actually trying to pretend you don't see the absurdity of that post?

Let's go back to my first post. I said Ghost has lost appeal and his last few albums are boring and average. This is my OPINION. There is nothing to back up. Do I have to prove I really have this opinion? Ok, none of his albums since SC has made me want to continue listening to them after the first few listens, and very little he has done on any of those albums has impressed me. Can you accept that? Or are you gonna continue to come up with absurd bullshit about how I'm not allowed to say things like that?

The other thing I said is that a lot of his lyrics on recent albums are the same as what other commercial artists are writing. Hmmm, ok, this is more than just an opinion, so how can I prove it? Well, let's see. I could just find lyrics from a handful of Ghost songs and also a few songs by other commercial artists, of a similar nature, and post them here for comparison. But wait a second, anybody with the slightest bit of sense can see that that really wouldn't prove a thing. I'm sure even an utter fucking idiot would realise that you could do the same thing with almost any artist. Damn, there goes that idea. I guess I'd really have to dig up a solid portion of Ghost's recent lyrics and find a good many tracks from several commercial artists with similar lyrics to actually prove my point. But wait a second, I really couldn't be fucked doing that just to make a point to a couple of guys who can't accept the fact that someone doesn't like Ghost. After all, I was only making an observation to see how other people felt about it. I never considered that anybody would be so troubled by it that they would hassle me with bullshit non-stop, forcing me to repeat myself time and time again.

Do you understand my logic?

So basically you shouldn't throw out pointless phrases like "he's just like other commercial/mainstream rappers" if you can't follow it up when someone asks a simple "Can you give me an example?"

Remember, YOU were the one who threw that statement out there, no one coaxed it out of you.

You either feel Ghost, or you don't. So what's the point of adding complete nonsense as of a way, somehow, validating your point of view?

That's the point that, somehow, you keep not getting. And that was the only point I was questioning (Well that, and your whole "no one else said anything relevant that didn't go with what I'm saying" statement).

cd
04-11-2007, 09:52 AM
So basically you shouldn't throw out pointless phrases like "he's just like other commercial/mainstream rappers" if you can't follow it up when someone asks a simple "Can you give me an example?"

Remember, YOU were the one who threw that statement out there, no one coaxed it out of you.

You either feel Ghost, or you don't. So what's the point of adding complete nonsense as of a way, somehow, validating your point of view?

That's the point that, somehow, you keep not getting. And that was the only point I was questioning (Well that, and your whole "no one else said anything relevant that didn't go with what I'm saying" statement).



You know, you are getting quite ridiculous. You seem to be the one not getting it, or not wanting to get it bc Noel has the audacity to be tired of Ghost's style at the moment. And I really don't want to defend Noel bc he's a complete ass, but you seem to be thinking that his posts are somewhat lacking while yours have some substance, which is far from reality.

He stated his opinion. He also told the situation of him reading the lyrics to "Ghostface" without the hook and not knowing who it was and thinking it was some GUnit, Dipset, insert all the carbon copy rappers here. Which is true. If you listen to some of Ghost's newer lyrics, they are dumbed down. Noel stated he doesnt like it and thinks it's bullshit. That's simple enough to understand for most people. You keep saying he hasn't given examples and ask for more. You don't need more, you should get the jist already. It's not a mistake on his explaining, it's your understanding or not wanting to understand what he said.

In addition to this ,Ghost in interviews has said himself he has and is dumbing down his lyrics for the most part. So the man himself says so. Now you can still thoroughly enjoy his stuff, that's fine. But the fact is he HAS dumbed down his music and tried to be more radio friendly. A lot of Wu Fans wont be into it. They have a valid point.

hide1998
04-11-2007, 10:57 AM
You know, you are getting quite ridiculous. You seem to be the one not getting it, or not wanting to get it bc Noel has the audacity to be tired of Ghost's style at the moment. And I really don't want to defend Noel bc he's a complete ass, but you seem to be thinking that his posts are somewhat lacking while yours have some substance, which is far from reality.

He stated his opinion. He also told the situation of him reading the lyrics to "Ghostface" without the hook and not knowing who it was and thinking it was some GUnit, Dipset, insert all the carbon copy rappers here. Which is true. If you listen to some of Ghost's newer lyrics, they are dumbed down. Noel stated he doesnt like it and thinks it's bullshit. That's simple enough to understand for most people. You keep saying he hasn't given examples and ask for more. You don't need more, you should get the jist already. It's not a mistake on his explaining, it's your understanding or not wanting to understand what he said.

In addition to this ,Ghost in interviews has said himself he has and is dumbing down his lyrics for the most part. So the man himself says so. Now you can still thoroughly enjoy his stuff, that's fine. But the fact is he HAS dumbed down his music and tried to be more radio friendly. A lot of Wu Fans wont be into it. They have a valid point.

Did you not read my posts, and his posts?

He bluntly stated (more than once in fact), that Ghostface is like all the other mainstream/commercial hip-hop (the example he pointed out was G-Unit). He was then asked (not JUST by me, but we'll pretend I was the only one to simplify things) to give an example. He (noel) backs out, and oddly enough says he doesn't listen to the radio. Then goes BACK to saying Ghostface is just like what he hears on the radio (every other commercial/mainstream artists). He's AGAIN asked to give an example what he means and he (noel) gets all antsy about a point HE brought up that HE can't backup.

THAT was the point I was attacking (well...and the whole "no one has anything of substance that didn't go along with what I was already saying" reference).

I'm not missing a thing as far as the very specific point I was aiming for with noel.

You can go back and read how he couldn't backup that specific point (again, I was NOT the only person who asked him to give examples), and how he couldn't back it up at all.

Interestingly enough, in his very last post he openly admits that he's not going to even try to back up that point.

That's the problem when you add unnecessary dirt just for the sake of making your opinion (he doesn't feel Ghostface now like he did during the Ironman days...fair enough) look stronger. When questioned about it, you can't back it up, and end up having to just back out of it altogether.

Notice how in none of my posts did I ever say, "noel you're wrong for feeling Ghostface more during his Ironman days than how is is these days."

You think noel's a jerk. I, personally, don't know enough about him on this board. But I do find it interesting how brings up things that he can't back out like the whole Ghostface/G-Unit thing *shrugs*

cd
04-11-2007, 04:12 PM
Did you not read my posts, and his posts?

He bluntly stated (more than once in fact), that Ghostface is like all the other mainstream/commercial hip-hop (the example he pointed out was G-Unit). He was then asked (not JUST by me, but we'll pretend I was the only one to simplify things) to give an example. He (noel) backs out, and oddly enough says he doesn't listen to the radio. Then goes BACK to saying Ghostface is just like what he hears on the radio (every other commercial/mainstream artists). He's AGAIN asked to give an example what he means and he (noel) gets all antsy about a point HE brought up that HE can't backup.

THAT was the point I was attacking (well...and the whole "no one has anything of substance that didn't go along with what I was already saying" reference).

I'm not missing a thing as far as the very specific point I was aiming for with noel.

You can go back and read how he couldn't backup that specific point (again, I was NOT the only person who asked him to give examples), and how he couldn't back it up at all.

Interestingly enough, in his very last post he openly admits that he's not going to even try to back up that point.

That's the problem when you add unnecessary dirt just for the sake of making your opinion (he doesn't feel Ghostface now like he did during the Ironman days...fair enough) look stronger. When questioned about it, you can't back it up, and end up having to just back out of it altogether.

Notice how in none of my posts did I ever say, "noel you're wrong for feeling Ghostface more during his Ironman days than how is is these days."

You think noel's a jerk. I, personally, don't know enough about him on this board. But I do find it interesting how brings up things that he can't back out like the whole Ghostface/G-Unit thing *shrugs*


Wow, you really don't want to read or understand what anyone is saying do you? You just want to try and force your point which is completely off, thinking if you rant long enough, it will be true.

He DID give you guys a very specific example. You choose to ignore it and then keep repeatedly asking for more examples. If you're going to ignore the one, why should he bother with digging up more? You are trying to twist things and it's tranparent and pointless. He also explained to you about the radio comment.

Just bc one doesn't listen to the radio, doesn't mean that you don't end up hearing it. He explained this to you. He doesn't listen to the radio himself but ends up hearing it when other people play it. This is another point he explained but you again choose to ignore what you want and try to use it as a point against him. This further twisting makes you look either dishonest or just unable to comprehend what he is saying. I never listen to the radio myself, but end up hearing it often, not a difficult concept to grasp.

And once again, bc you choose to ignore it also, GHOST HIMSELF has said he has dumbed down his rhymes. Another fact that is the basis for what Noel has stated, and you ignore. He has given an example, you just feel differently which is fine, it's all taste and opinion, but to say he hasn't backed anything up at all is bordering on delusional.

SKANK HILL
04-11-2007, 04:14 PM
Sons is entitled to his opinion. Evendough its wrong, like gay man pregnant with twins. Sure Ghost has taken this though coke-selling-don-guy-who-still-cooks-for-his-lady-friend a bit to the extreme. But that's his shit. And within those lines, ain't nobody doin' like Ghost.

The rap game is filled, I repeat FILLED with coke rappers who seem to just waked up in a Scarface seqeunce while Cuban Linx is playing in the back. Even Busta is doin' it, goddamned! Why is Ghost still relevant? Why is even needed then.. The originality of coming off fresh in tired evironment.

And am not even goin' start about tracks like Whip You With A Strap & Underwater.

Still, I kinda agree with dude. I think that anything after Fishscale (am goin to ignore More Fish, sue me) would cost Ghost some props if he get on the same ol horse again.

opinions dont have right or wrong answer im afraid ... thats why theyre called opinions ... this thread keeps on keepin on ... shit ... why is it so hard to admit ghost has dumbed down his shit ?

noel411
04-11-2007, 04:58 PM
hide1998, I have said everything I need to say to you. You either can’t or won’t comprehend what I’m saying to you, and I am no longer willing to waste my time repeating myself to you. On top of this cd has also tried explaining the fact that you are repeatedly choosing to dismiss and neglect everything I say, despite the fact that I have explained everything to you in a reasonable manner.

If you’re as unsettled by all this as you appear to be, just read the last couple of pages over and over and you’ll get it eventually.

Sun Tzu, Tha Soul Controllah
04-11-2007, 07:34 PM
opinions dont have right or wrong answer im afraid ... thats why theyre called opinions ... this thread keeps on keepin on ... shit ... why is it so hard to admit ghost has dumbed down his shit ?


u answered it urself lol

ITS JUST UR OPINION, WHICH MEANS IT DOESNT HAVE A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER

Ghost In The 'Lac
04-11-2007, 07:40 PM
listen to the tracks he did with DOOM, Angeles, and Alex, thats him, as creative as ever. Hes just dumbing down a bit for Def Jam

Longbongcilvaringz
04-11-2007, 09:59 PM
this thread spiralled...

ghost has changed, some people like it some dont, simple.

if you cant admit he has changed from SC to Fishscale then your opinion is wrong.

hide1998
04-11-2007, 10:01 PM
Although noel hasn't showed at all how Ghostface is like G-Unit (the example HE brought up), let alone like the rest of mainstream/commercial hip-hop, I really haven't a single problem with him feeling Ghostface more back in the day. That's his business. Since this board isn't noel's personal blog, making a topic entitled "Ghost Fell Off & Became Boring" without expecting people to say more than "You're right son!" doesn't make sense. Apparently I'm, as of right now, the only person really calling him out for making unrealistic comparisons in a way of adding strength to his words. Just because he throws something out there, doesn't make it so. If he listens to the radio whenever he goes to a friends how then that completely contradicts what he stated initially.
All this "Ghost admits he dumbed down his lyrics" is completely irrelevant because at NO point did I make an argument like "noel, Ghostface is much more complex rapper nowadays than he was back in the day, therefore you can't possibly feel him more back in the day than you do now." Bringing up things like that further diverts from the point I was specifically going at (btw, how is a hook from a song like "Ghostface" anything like G-Unit? People are harping on that like that's noel's example for comparison. Strange. I guess Z-ro is like Nelly. How so? Well..they both harmonize, so that's what makes them similar. Of course it doesn't, but apparently that falls as a good comparison in this thread). noel's support in this thread is pretty clear, so I gotta give him props for finding people to back him up even after he hasn't proved anything (again, I have NOT at any point stated "noel, you're wrong for feeling Ghostface more back in the day.")

Crackhead Bob
04-11-2007, 10:20 PM
I find offense with that statement^^^^ I tried but gave up

noel411
04-12-2007, 12:52 AM
Although noel hasn't showed at all how Ghostface is like G-Unit (the example HE brought up), let alone like the rest of mainstream/commercial hip-hop, I really haven't a single problem with him feeling Ghostface more back in the day. That's his business. Since this board isn't noel's personal blog, making a topic entitled "Ghost Fell Off & Became Boring" without expecting people to say more than "You're right son!" doesn't make sense. Apparently I'm, as of right now, the only person really calling him out for making unrealistic comparisons in a way of adding strength to his words. Just because he throws something out there, doesn't make it so. If he listens to the radio whenever he goes to a friends how then that completely contradicts what he stated initially.
All this "Ghost admits he dumbed down his lyrics" is completely irrelevant because at NO point did I make an argument like "noel, Ghostface is much more complex rapper nowadays than he was back in the day, therefore you can't possibly feel him more back in the day than you do now." Bringing up things like that further diverts from the point I was specifically going at (btw, how is a hook from a song like "Ghostface" anything like G-Unit? People are harping on that like that's noel's example for comparison. Strange. I guess Z-ro is like Nelly. How so? Well..they both harmonize, so that's what makes them similar. Of course it doesn't, but apparently that falls as a good comparison in this thread). noel's support in this thread is pretty clear, so I gotta give him props for finding people to back him up even after he hasn't proved anything (again, I have NOT at any point stated "noel, you're wrong for feeling Ghostface more back in the day.")
I see you’re still troubled by these same “issues”. I guess you didn’t follow the advice of my last post. Seriously dude, if this shit is troubling you so much please just re-read the thread. There are repeated reasonable and valid explanations for all these things you have issues with. I assure you. Just keep looking and eventually you will see it. You may need to let go of your perceived depiction of what I am saying and keep trying over and over until you actually see my words for what they are, but if that’s what it takes to give you peace of mind then it might not be such a bad idea.


As for you being the only one "calling me out", did you ever stop to think that maybe this is because you are the only person here having difficulty interpreting what I'm saying, or recognising the validity of my explanations for all these supposed flaws you are making up?

SKANK HILL
04-12-2007, 12:55 AM
u answered it urself lol

ITS JUST UR OPINION, WHICH MEANS IT DOESNT HAVE A RIGHT OR WRONG ANSWER

so ... ghost admitts he dumbed down his shit so it just becomes my opinion ?

GENERAL WISE
04-12-2007, 10:54 AM
Is this thread a beautifulrock vs Noell Thread?

cd
04-12-2007, 02:06 PM
nm

Ghost Deini
04-13-2007, 04:31 AM
I dunno what it is...but Ghost is one of my favorite MC's of all time. Probably my favorite MC in the Wu...

I like his lyrics, yeah at times you have lyrics similar to other rappers (jewelry, drug hustle, bitches) but I think Ghost just does it with such energy, style, and slang that it's always interesting. Plus you always got his story telling raps like "Alex" from More Fish, and off the wall insane shit like Underwater from Fishscale. And technically I think he's on point 24/7. Dope voice, dope flow, delivery, etc. etc....

Just my two cents...

Oh and Noel...just curious...what do you like better, Ironman or SC?

EDIT: lol...I look like a dickridin fag comin into this topic with my username/sig...

Jeru
04-13-2007, 04:44 AM
I dunno what it is...but Ghost is one of my favorite MC's of all time. Probably my favorite MC in the Wu...

I like his lyrics, yeah at times you have lyrics similar to other rappers (jewelry, drug hustle, bitches) but I think Ghost just does it with such energy, style, and slang that it's always interesting. Plus you always got his story telling raps like "Alex" from More Fish, and off the wall insane shit like Underwater from Fishscale. And technically I think he's on point 24/7. Dope voice, dope flow, delivery, etc. etc....

Just my two cents...

Oh and Noel...just curious...what do you like better, Ironman or SC?

EDIT: lol...I look like a dickridin fag comin into this topic with my username/sig...

LOL change it quickly and noone will know :D

Ghost Deini
04-13-2007, 04:46 AM
LOL change it quickly and noone will know :D

What's gooooddd Jeru.

Jeru
04-13-2007, 05:03 AM
Chillin' bro', damn all the old heads are comin back.How you been man?

Ghost Deini
04-13-2007, 05:06 AM
Chillin' bro', damn all the old heads are comin back.How you been man?

Pretty good pretty good. Just workin, enjoyin life, buildin with the family you know. I like to take random long asss breaks from the internet and my regular spots (like the corp) but I couldn't leave it for good haha, plus seems like Wu is really on the move in 07.

Jeru
04-13-2007, 05:07 AM
LOL, let's hope so.It's hard to leave this place I know LOL.Good to have you back ( untill the next random long ass break ).:D

Ghost Deini
04-13-2007, 05:10 AM
LOL, let's hope so.It's hard to leave this place I know LOL.Good to have you back ( untill the next random long ass break ).:D

Haha chea. I'll probably stick around for a while, bit more settled down now wit life in general so got more time to be bored around the house.

Plus I feel cool as shit with this "veteran" name with the W next to it.

Jeru
04-13-2007, 05:34 AM
Haha chea. I'll probably stick around for a while, bit more settled down now wit life in general so got more time to be bored around the house.

Plus I feel cool as shit with this "veteran" name with the W next to it.

LMAO, I don't like them grey names.It's like seperating the jews from the "normal" people in WW2.And everybody whoring around to get it, when it's not necesary IMO.

noel411
04-13-2007, 06:36 AM
Oh and Noel...just curious...what do you like better, Ironman or SC?

EDIT: lol...I look like a dickridin fag comin into this topic with my username/sig...
I like 'Ironman' better than SC by a very large margin. They're really not even comparable to me. Although having said that, I still think SC is a great album.

Whenever I see a name like yours in this thread I expect to see some upset little punk insulting me, but most the Ghost fans actually seem to be civil these days. A few years back if you said something negative about Ghost on here you could expect to get pages full of childish insults thrown at you. So that's cool. But yeah, you're not exactly the only person on here who has named himself after a Wu member. The "dickridin' fags" are the people who get upset when somebody doesn't like their favourite rapper though.

dirty-minded
04-13-2007, 12:09 PM
I told myself I wouldn't visit BTR again until this thread is off the first page and I accidently did today. It sparked the same feeling I had when I first saw it... whaaaat the fuck.

"Smokin' too much, that shit is absurd!!!!!"

Tetsuo
04-13-2007, 06:04 PM
Yo, Noel can you excuse my laziness and please summarize your criticism of Ghost because I don't feel like reading 11 pages right now, but I am interested in what you have to say. And although I doubt I'll agree with I respect you for being genuinely critical which is rare around here.

Megaman
04-13-2007, 06:13 PM
he says ghost is like g unit..... lol

PuNcH_iN_PuNcH_OuT
04-13-2007, 10:59 PM
this thread has turned into the equivalent of a wank sock

noel411
04-14-2007, 02:16 AM
Yo, Noel can you excuse my laziness and please summarize your criticism of Ghost because I don't feel like reading 11 pages right now, but I am interested in what you have to say. And although I doubt I'll agree with I respect you for being genuinely critical which is rare around here.
Basically I haven't added anything new since my first post. I have had to repeat myself to a few people who couldn't accept my opinion, but it's pretty much all there in the first post. I just think the music Ghost has put out over the last few years has had little-to-no appeal, and he has become a very average artist in all regards. Lyrically I think he has become un-captivating and often cliche. As a whole I think his product has been very forgettable over the last few years. Each to their own though. If you're still enjoying his music then good for you.

madstyles
04-15-2007, 04:08 PM
ghostface is better than ever and with albums like bulletproof wallets and pretty toney i dont see how anyone can say hes not better than every other mc is the existance of hip hop.

*smashes face on computer*

AK Spray
06-17-2007, 01:36 AM
he's the G.O.A.T.

Boy Unique
06-17-2007, 01:48 AM
he was always good but not my favorite...

HarlemDiplomat
07-10-2007, 08:45 AM
I see th Ghostface hate is wide awake.

I like Ghost man, if anything hes better than your boy Deck who can hardly say hes consistent.

tymoney
07-11-2007, 11:27 PM
How is fishscale forgetable? It's a fuckin modern day classic. Threadstarter is gay.