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V4D3R
04-06-2007, 03:38 PM
The oldest known written things tell us a race called the Anunnaki invented religion - for they created us- and we multiplied more then they did. They made us for the purpose of slavery, we outnumbered them - so they instill religion in our brains, the made us obedient- we had to produce,



it's 2007 and we still producing and killing in their names.

Heavy-Mental
04-06-2007, 08:13 PM
they let us live.. they are returning soon what will they do to us?

V4D3R
04-06-2007, 08:41 PM
They died

Visionz
04-07-2007, 12:44 AM
How does that account for the knowledge that can be found in the likes of the Dead Sea scrolls? The Anunnaki would have had their orgins as well right?

GENERAL WISE
04-07-2007, 01:26 AM
unless you provide concrete proof don't acknowledge the belief that Anunnaki's created the first religion. The first civilization (by definition needs religion/art/some sort of language) is the first creator of religion. Caveman groups worshiping fire is my guess.

SaqurakiHanamichi
04-07-2007, 11:32 AM
WHO CREATED RELIGION??
The truth????
Im gonna tell u the truth but ur not gonna like it......


Ever since a brain existed there has been a religion, A religion is a fantasy for the mind a fantasy for the suffering, The People Couldent take their suffering, So much pain so much disease , that they said to themselves "Damn there has to be a better place then this , cause this is hell for me". So thats how the heaven thing started. It started from the weak mind....

Im not bashing religion, na fam , religion i have mad respect for., Before religion people were wild, they dident give a fuk there was no laws, Being gay was a normal thing, But then religion came in and set certain laws, It made people more civilized. Like everything else
Religion has its good things and its bad things, people only look at it for its bad things....

V4D3R
04-07-2007, 04:29 PM
WHO CREATED RELIGION??
The truth????
Im gonna tell u the truth but ur not gonna like it......


Ever since a brain existed there has been a religion, A religion is a fantasy for the mind a fantasy for the suffering, The People Couldent take their suffering, So much pain so much disease , that they said to themselves "Damn there has to be a better place then this , cause this is hell for me". So thats how the heaven thing started. It started from the weak mind....

Im not bashing religion, na fam , religion i have mad respect for., Before religion people were wild, they dident give a fuk there was no laws, Being gay was a normal thing, But then religion came in and set certain laws, It made people more civilized. Like everything else
Religion has its good things and its bad things, people only look at it for its bad things....

Read your history more - do the math and read. The Anunnaki did this. Palehorse just added another angle to the same story that happened worldwide around 6000 years ago or more give or take a few thousand years

Os3y3ris
04-07-2007, 04:51 PM
I don't know. I think that religion is what stands between us and true belief in whats real. I think that thats a good thing done by those who understand the truth. The problems that God poses will fuck up your mental on some real shit. You don't want to meet him.

SaqurakiHanamichi
04-07-2007, 05:19 PM
Read your history more - do the math and read. The Anunnaki did this. Palehorse just added another angle to the same story that happened worldwide around 6000 years ago or more give or take a few thousand years

read my history what r u talkin about man????/
What i wrote was common sence. I dont care who practiced the first religion, All i know is , ever since the human mind was formed , some sort of religion was in their head. PERIOD. its a natural thing

do u know how much history is lost???/ Do u have a idea , and ur gonna tell me read my history?????
LOL!!!!

V4D3R
04-07-2007, 09:57 PM
^^Your lost man if you dont know the true history- and you made that shit up.

Bring facts. Humans did not just come up with the idea of religion. They were spiritual if anything.

Frontal Lobotomy
04-07-2007, 10:16 PM
All this because some dudes a few thousand years ago looked to rationalise why the sun shines..

SaqurakiHanamichi
04-07-2007, 10:22 PM
^^Your lost man if you dont know the true history- and you made that shit up.

Bring facts. Humans did not just come up with the idea of religion. They were spiritual if anything.

what is religion?

V4D3R
04-08-2007, 01:37 PM
what is religion?

Tell me

Ultimate Fist
04-08-2007, 10:33 PM
Probably some poor naked bastard in a cave trying to figure out why the fuck there's thunder.

V4D3R
04-08-2007, 10:33 PM
Posts are missing.

Urban_Journalz
04-08-2007, 10:35 PM
Bring proof.

:lmao: Now THAT'S comedy.

SaqurakiHanamichi
04-08-2007, 11:05 PM
Tell me

living for the afterlife.
aka heaven and hell

that is religion
A certain way of life , to prepare for the afterlife.

whitey
04-10-2007, 02:51 PM
read my history what r u talkin about man????/
What i wrote was common sence. I dont care who practiced the first religion, All i know is , ever since the human mind was formed , some sort of religion was in their head. PERIOD. its a natural thing

do u know how much history is lost???/ Do u have a idea , and ur gonna tell me read my history?????
LOL!!!!


im gonna disagree son. i think it was more of a lack of knowledge. primative humans didnt have textbooks and labs and all this and that. they couldnt explain things. its raining too much? must be a spirit or a god. lightening/thunder in the sky? spirits are pissed. ran into a wealth of food? must have been the gods or spirits who did it.

same reason people thought the earth was flat, they didnt know any better.

only thing now a days is people cant see there isnt really a god, its just us holding it down.

WARPATH
04-10-2007, 03:41 PM
WHO CREATED RELIGION??
The truth????
Im gonna tell u the truth but ur not gonna like it......


Ever since a brain existed there has been a religion, A religion is a fantasy for the mind a fantasy for the suffering, The People Couldent take their suffering, So much pain so much disease , that they said to themselves "Damn there has to be a better place then this , cause this is hell for me". So thats how the heaven thing started. It started from the weak mind....

Im not bashing religion, na fam , religion i have mad respect for., Before religion people were wild, they dident give a fuk there was no laws, Being gay was a normal thing, But then religion came in and set certain laws, It made people more civilized. Like everything else
Religion has its good things and its bad things, people only look at it for its bad things....

Religion was established as soon as man came on this earth. Only then it wasn't religion, it was pure knowledge of where man came from. After years went by and people mixed together, they became confused. Who was right about our past, mother or father? People were civil until this point, and this is probably when the savagery started.


im gonna disagree son. i think it was more of a lack of knowledge. primative humans didnt have textbooks and labs and all this and that. they couldnt explain things. its raining too much? must be a spirit or a god. lightening/thunder in the sky? spirits are pissed. ran into a wealth of food? must have been the gods or spirits who did it.

same reason people thought the earth was flat, they didnt know any better.

only thing now a days is people cant see there isnt really a god, its just us holding it down.


What your refering to as primative humans, were the most advanced people on earth. Their understanding of how the earth operates helped them to survive for years without having to establish complicated forms of technology. Cures for everything you can imagine, and their wasn't a real need for hospitols.

Dirty Knowledge
04-10-2007, 05:04 PM
Religion was concieved maybe out of jealousy.

LORD NOSE
05-15-2010, 12:48 AM
Religion was established as soon as man came on this earth. Only then it wasn't religion, it was pure knowledge of where man came from. After years went by and people mixed together, they became confused. Who was right about our past, mother or father? People were civil until this point, and this is probably when the savagery started.





What your refering to as primative humans, were the most advanced people on earth. Their understanding of how the earth operates helped them to survive for years without having to establish complicated forms of technology. Cures for everything you can imagine, and their wasn't a real need for hospitols.

The oldest known written things tell us a race called the Anunnaki invented religion - for they created us- and we multiplied more then they did. They made us for the purpose of slavery, we outnumbered them - so they instill religion in our brains, the made us obedient- we had to produce,



it's 2007 and we still producing and killing in their names.


deep very deep

InsurgenT
05-15-2010, 03:32 AM
They died
No they didnt. Enki the, father of humanity, have life span of 300.000 earth years, and he is still alive.

Frank Sobotka
05-15-2010, 05:46 AM
At first people created religion to explain the unexplainable.
Then some individuals started abusing the faith of the believers.
Some tried to make them live a better life (Jesus) more tried to control them (Catholic Church).

V4D3R
05-15-2010, 05:08 PM
No they didnt. Enki the, father of humanity, have life span of 300.000 earth years, and he is still alive.
Then who is he? Where is he? Why are they no longer in control or in the public eye?

interesting vid
XoPg3xMx9m8

spiggity_ace
05-16-2010, 06:41 PM
ngJ-H7fjsAk

interesting, their is also another one i cant find rite now

Iempod2GaAg

TheBoarzHeadBoy
05-16-2010, 10:00 PM
You nigs don't even understand your basic mythologies.

Nibiru is Sumerian for Jupiter. Jupiter being Marduk. Zeus. God. Odin. El. Amon. Vishnu.

The King of the Gods. It's all mythology.

LORD NOSE
05-16-2010, 10:45 PM
description of reality

praise the almitey W
05-17-2010, 12:44 PM
european pagans were the creators of religion in some british islands they built tombs for their dead and prayed to them and the gods that they had created they also had religous festivals such as burning things plus they created the stonehinge which was to symbolize death becuase the stones were so cold while the woodhinge symbolized life.

thats just my opinion.
but i guess when humans started to develope thinking power is when religion was started

TheBoarzHeadBoy
05-17-2010, 02:59 PM
All religions believe in one god regardless of what they tell you. Pagans just worship God as aspects they can relate to because it's hard to comprehend a universal god. Brahman is the Universal God of the Hindus. And they're the main example of a "polytheistic" religion. European pagans divide the Universal God into masculine and feminine regions because omnisexual is too confusing. They then subdivide the masculine and feminine into individual beings with different attitudes.

Man is created in gods own image. I don't think that's a physical description because God isn't a man it's a force of nature. They're describing the mentality. Anything you can think of is something from God. If you took every person in the world they would exist as a both a whole and a fragment of God.

Think about that.

Hellspawn
05-17-2010, 03:22 PM
All religions believe in one god regardless of what they tell you. Pagans just worship God as aspects they can relate to because it's hard to comprehend a universal god. Brahman is the Universal God of the Hindus. And they're the main example of a "polytheistic" religion. European pagans divide the Universal God into masculine and feminine regions because omnisexual is too confusing. They then subdivide the masculine and feminine into individual beings with different attitudes.

Man is created in gods own image. I don't think that's a physical description because God isn't a man it's a force of nature. They're describing the mentality. Anything you can think of is something from God. If you took every person in the world they would exist as a both a whole and a fragment of God.

Think about that.

This is so true, this proves that the oneness of god is the rule while the polytheism/paganism is the exception ----> alteration of the true religion. That's what the islam is tryin to make people understand.

When you say force of nature you include the universe arent you?

Urban_Journalz
05-17-2010, 03:43 PM
I'd like to know what the point of all this is. I mean, even if aliens created us, then what? What do you hope to accomplish by bringing this to our attention? Is it designed to uplift us or a mere testimony to something else that we didn't know?

Most of these threads lately have been the same. An overemphasis on intellect as opposed to intuition. Or vice versa. Many of you are, in one way or another, slaves; the masters being your egos. Teach me something. If you go too far in either direction, intellectual (which seems to be a crowd favorite) or intuitional, you run the risk of only getting one side of the story and your knowledge never being complete.

All I'm saying is, I'd like to see a thread that's not the equivalent of, "If a store is open 24 hrs. why are there locks on the doors?" as if I should sell all of my possessions, take refuge in a cave opposite the Himalayas and contemplate this query.

Face of the Golden Falcon
05-17-2010, 03:51 PM
This is so true, this proves that the oneness of god is the rule while the polytheism/paganism is the exception ----> alteration of the true religion. That's what the islam is tryin to make people understand.

When you say force of nature you include the universe arent you?

Polytheism is not an exception to the rule, it's just a different understanding of it...and, in many cases, is actually a better understanding of it.

HETEPU

Hellspawn
05-17-2010, 04:19 PM
Polytheism is not an exception to the rule, it's just a different understanding of it...and, in many cases, is actually a better understanding of it.

HETEPU

It's impossible to achieve the harmony of the universe with multiple creators. And in almost 90% of the cases, polytheists believe in a superior god but they take lesser beigns/idols as ways to worship that supreme beign so it still contradictory.

Urban_Journalz
05-17-2010, 04:38 PM
^^True indeed. You can see it in the cases of Ancient Rome and Greece alike.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
05-17-2010, 06:25 PM
In the Hindu religion, Brahman (Devanāgarī: ब्रह्मन् bráhman) is the eternal, unchanging, infinite, immanent, and transcendent reality which is the Divine Ground of all matter, energy, time, space, being, and everything beyond in this Universe.[1] The nature of Brahman is described as transpersonal, personal and impersonal by different philosophical schools. In the Rig Veda, Brahman gives rise to the primordial being Hiranyagarbha that is equated with the creator God Brahmā. The trimurti can thus be considered a personification of Hiranyagarbha as the active principle behind the phenomena of the universe.

That's why there are "Gods" its such a behemoth we can't wrap our head around it. The bible is the same way. Thats why there are Angels and such. They're a better description of God as a sort of super soul. The Angels are not beings, they're aspects of god small enough we can if not understand, at least interact with them. We are divine beings, which means have even smaller aspects of god within us. Jesus is the "son" because he bears "the holy spirit." We all do, but Jesus cultivated it in the desert through ascetic practices. He became like Buddha. Mohammad is probably another "Buddha" but I'm not sure. They all seem to be.

Hellspawn
05-17-2010, 06:44 PM
That's why there are "Gods" its such a behemoth we can't wrap our head around it. The bible is the same way. Thats why there are Angels and such. They're a better description of God as a sort of super soul. The Angels are not beings, they're aspects of god small enough we can if not understand, at least interact with them. We are divine beings, which means have even smaller aspects of god within us. Jesus is the "son" because he bears "the holy spirit." We all do, but Jesus cultivated it in the desert through ascetic practices. He became like Buddha. Mohammad is probably another "Buddha" but I'm not sure. They all seem to be.

If Buddha means prophet then Mohammad and Jesus are Buddhas. In Jesus' case they smoked a Buddha :p

Face of the Golden Falcon
05-17-2010, 07:25 PM
It's impossible to achieve the harmony of the universe with multiple creators. And in almost 90% of the cases, polytheists believe in a superior god but they take lesser beigns/idols as ways to worship that supreme beign so it still contradictory.

...no offence but you obviously lack a proper understanding of it. And were did you get your 90 percent from?

HETEPU

Hellspawn
05-17-2010, 07:27 PM
...no offence but you obviously lack a proper understanding of it. And were did you get your 90 percent from?

HETEPU

Enlight me and explain what's the true polytheism.

Urban_Journalz
05-17-2010, 07:52 PM
All polytheism is, is an example of having deviated from the original teaching. Breaking the 1st Commandment, as it were. Islam is the last message to have said this, but it is not the first. That's why you'll see people like me telling you to read The Tao Te Ching, The Emerald Tablets of Thoth, The Book of Enoch, etc. All will tell you, there is one Creator. One Source. One Beginning and One End. To worship angels, messengers, prophets, elements, planets, all of the above is having gained knowledge of the Truth and having worshipped a specific aspect of that truth. Worshipping a branch as opposed to the tree. The main idea is so simple, yet no one understands it.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
05-17-2010, 08:28 PM
Polytheism is looking at a number of leaves on a very very very big tree.

Monotheism is generally looking at the tree from so far away you can't make it out clearly.

Enlightenment is seeing the tree as its individual atoms and as the whole tree. Knowing every atom in the tree, and being able to understand them as molecules, compounds, organelles, cells, tissues, organs, and as the tree. It is knowing the tree. That is enlightenment. It's not as easy as trying to read each leaf as a part of creation or just glancing at the tree from afar and saying that is God. I don't understand it, but that's what it is.

Face of the Golden Falcon
05-17-2010, 11:43 PM
Polytheism is looking at a number of leaves on a very very very big tree.

Monotheism is generally looking at the tree from so far away you can't make it out clearly.

Enlightenment is seeing the tree as its individual atoms and as the whole tree. Knowing every atom in the tree, and being able to understand them as molecules, compounds, organelles, cells, tissues, organs, and as the tree. It is knowing the tree. That is enlightenment. It's not as easy as trying to read each leaf as a part of creation or just glancing at the tree from afar and saying that is God. I don't understand it, but that's what it is.

...Well said.

Enlight me and explain what's the true polytheism.

...Forgive me, I didn't mean to come across as though I know what is the true anything. Other than what I "see through my own eyes" I cannot judge truth for another.

All I meant was that Polytheism is a lot more complex than the simplistic explanation you gave it. I don't proclaim to know the understanding that all who follow it have but certainly I have come across quite a few who see it as I do which is very much the way Boarzhead explained it above.

Let me see if I can give you an understanding of it from my point of view in association with Islam...

Here we have the 99 names of Allah that you'd be familiar with:
#http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_the_Qur%27an#) Arabichttp://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_the_Qur%27an#) Transliterationhttp://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_the_Qur%27an#) Translation (can vary based on context)http://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_the_Qur%27an#) Qur'anic usagehttp://bits.wikimedia.org/skins-1.5/common/images/sort_none.gif (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_the_Qur%27an#) 1 الرحمن Ar-Rahmān The Compassionate, The Beneficent, The Gracious Beginning of every chapter except one, and in numerous other places. Name frequently used in Surah 55, Ar-Rahman. 2 الرحيم Ar-Rahim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R-%E1%B8%A4-M) The Merciful Beginning of every chapter except one, and in numerous other places 3 الملك Al-Malik (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malik) The King, The Master, The Sovereign Lord 59:23, 20:114 4 القدوس Al-Quddus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quddus) The Holy, The Pure, The Perfect 59:23, 62:1 5 السلام As-Salām (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sal%C4%81m) The Peace and Blessing, The Source of Peace and Safety, 59:23 6 المؤمن Al-Mu'min (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%27min) The Guarantor, The Affirming, 59:23 7 المهيمن Al-Muhaymin The Guardian, The Protector 59:23 8 العزيز Al-Aziz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aziz) The Almighty, The Sufficient, The Honorable 3:6, 4:158, 9:40, 48:7, 59:23 9 الجبار Al-Jabbar The Irresistible, The Compeller, The Lofty, 59:23 10 المتكبر Al-Mutakabbir The Highest, The Greatest 59:23 11 الخالق Al-Khāliq The Creator 6:102, 13:16, 39:62, 40:62, 59:24 12 البارئ Al-Bāri' The Rightful 59:24 13 المصور Al-Musawwir The Evolver, The Fashioner of Forms 59:24 14 الغفار Al-Ghaffār The Forgiving 20:82, 38:66, 39:5, 40:42, 71:10 15 القهار Al-Qahhār The Subduer 13:16, 14:48, 38:65, 39:4, 40:16 16 الوهاب Al-Wahhāb The Bestower 3:8, 38:9, 38:35 17 الرزاق Ar-Razzāq The Provider 51:58 18 الفتاح Al-Fattāh The Opener, The Victory Giver 34:26 19 العليم Al-'Alīm The All Knowing, The Omniscient 2:158, 3:92, 4:35, 24:41, 33:40 20 القابض Al-Qābid The Restrainer, The Straightener 2:245 21 الباسط Al-Bāsit The Extender / Expander 2:245 22 الخافض Al-Khāfid The Abaser 95:5 23 الرافع Ar-Rāfi' The Exalter 58:11, 6:83 24 المعز Al-Mu'izz The Giver of Honour 3:26 25 المذل Al-Mu'dhell The Giver of Dishonour 3:26 26 السميع As-Samī The All Hearing 2:127, 2:256, 8:17, 49:1 27 البصير Al-Basīr The All Seeing 4:58, 17:1, 42:11, 42:27 28 الحكم Al-Hakam The Judge, The Arbitrator 22:69 29 العدل Al-`Adl The Utterly Just 6:115 30 اللطيف Al-Latīf The Gentle, The Subtly Kind 6:103, 22:63, 31:16, 33:34 31 الخبير Al-Khabīr The All Aware 6:18, 17:30, 49:13, 59:18 32 الحليم Al-Halīm The Forbearing, The Indulgent 2:235, 17:44, 22:59, 35:41 33 العظيم Al-'Azīm The Magnificent 2:255, 42:4, 56:96 34 الغفور Al-Ghafūr The All Forgiving 2:173, 8:69, 16:110, 41:32 35 الشكور Ash-Shakūr The Grateful 35:30, 35:34, 42:23, 64:17 36 العلي Al-'Aliyy The Sublime 4:34, 31:30, 42:4, 42:51 37 الكبير Al-Kabīr The Great 13:9, 22:62, 31:30 38 الحفيظ Al-Hafīz The Preserver 11:57, 34:21, 42:6 39 المقيت Al-Muqīt The Nourisher 4:85 40 الحسيب Al-Hasīb The Bringer of Judgment 4:6, 4:86, 33:39 41 الجليل Al-Jalīl The Majestic 55:27, 39:14, 7:143 42 الكريم Al-Karīm The Bountiful, The Generous 27:40, 82:6 43 الرقيب Ar-Raqīb The Watchful 4:1, 5:117 44 المجيب Al-Mujīb The Responsive, The Answer 11:61 45 الواسع Al-Wāsi' The Vast, The All-Embracing, The Omnipresent 2:268, 3:73, 5:54 46 الحكيم Al-Hakīm (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hak%C4%ABm&action=edit&redlink=1) The Wise 31:27, 46:2, 57:1, 66:2 47 الودود Al-Wadūd The Loving 11:90, 85:14 48 المجيد Al-Majīd The Glorious 11:73 49 الباعث Al-Bā'ith The Ressurecter 22:7 50 الشهيد Ash-Shahīd (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shah%C4%ABd&action=edit&redlink=1) The Witness 4:166, 22:17, 41:53, 48:28 51 الحق Al-Haqq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haqq) The Truth, The Real 6:62, 22:6, 23:116, 24:25 52 الوكيل Al-Wakīl The Trustee, The Dependable 3:173, 4:171, 28:28, 73:9 53 القوى Al-Qawwiyy The Strong 22:40, 22:74, 42:19, 57:25 54 المتين Al-Matīn The Firm, The Steadfast 51:58 55 الولى Al-Waliyy The Friend, Patron and Helper 4:45, 7:196, 42:28, 45:19 56 الحميد Al-Hamīd The All Praiseworthy 14:8, 31:12, 31:26, 41:42 57 المحصى Al-Muhsi The Accounter, The Numberer of All 72:28, 78:29, 82:10-12 58 المبدئ Al-Mubdi' The Originator, Producer and Initiator of All 10:34, 27:64, 29:19, 85:13 59 المعيد Al-Mu'īd The Restorer, The Reinstater Who Brings Back All 10:34, 27:64, 29:19, 85:13 60 المحيى Al-Muhyi The Giver of Life 7:158, 15:23, 30:50, 57:2 61 المميت Al-Mumīt The Destroyer, The Bringer of Death 3:156, 7:158, 15:23, 57:2 62 الحي Al-Hayy The Living 2:255, 3:2, 25:58, 40:65 63 القيوم Al-Qayyūm The Subsisting 2:255, 3:2, 20:111 64 الواجد Al-Wājid The Perceiver, The Finder, The Unfailing 38:44 65 الماجد Al-Mājid The Illustrious, The Magnificent 85:15, 11:73, 66 الواحد Al-Wāhid The Unity, The Indivisible 2:163, 5:73, 9:31, 18:110 67 الاحد Al-'Ahad The One, The Unique 112:1 68 الصمد As-Samad The Eternal, The Absolute, The Self-Sufficient 112:2 69 القادر Al-Qādir The Omnipotent, The All Able 6:65, 36:81, 46:33, 75:40 70 المقتدر Al-Muqtadir The Determiner, The Dominant 18:45, 54:42, 54:55 71 المقدم Al-Muqaddim The Expediter, He Who Brings Forward 16:61, 17:34, 72 المؤخر Al-Mu'akhkhir The Delayer, He Who Puts Far Away 71:4 73 الأول Al-'Awwal The First (Alpha) 57:3 74 الأخر Al-'Akhir The Last (Omega) 57:3 75 الظاهر Az-Zāhir The Manifest, The Evident, The Outer 57:3 76 الباطن Al-Bātin The Hidden, The Unmanifest, The Inner 57:3 77 الوالي Al-Wāli The Patron 13:11, 22:7 78 المتعالي Al-Mutā'ali The Exalted 13:9 79 البر Al-Barr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barr) The Good 52:28 80 التواب At-Tawwāb The Ever Returning, Ever Relenting 2:128, 4:64, 49:12, 110:3 81 المنتقم Al-Muntaqim The Avenger 32:22, 43:41, 44:16 82 العفو Al-Afuww The Pardoner, The Effacer 4:99, 4:149, 22:60 83 الرؤوف Ar-Ra'ūf The Kind, The Pitying 3:30, 9:117, 57:9, 59:10 84 مالك الملك Mālik-ul-Mulk The Owner of all Sovereignty 3:26 85 ذو الجلال والإكرام Dhū-l-Jalāli
wa-l-'ikrām The Lord of Majesty and Generosity 55:27, 55:78 86 المقسط Al-Muqsiţ The Equitable, The Requiter 7:29, 3:18 87 الجامع Al-Jāmi The Gatherer, The Unifier 3:9 88 الغني Al-Ghaniyy The Rich, The Independent 3:97, 39:7, 47:38, 57:24 89 المغني Al-Mughni The Enricher, The Emancipator 9:28 90 المانع Al-Māni' The Withholder, The Shielder, the Defender 67:21 91 الضار Ad-Dārr The Distressor, The Harmer, The Afflictor 6:17 92 النافع An-Nāfi The Propitious, The Benefactor, The Source of Good 30:37 93 النور An-Nūr The Light 24:35 94 الهادي Al-Hādi The Guide, The Way 22:54 95 البديع Al-Badī The Incomparable, The Originator 2:117, 6:101 96 الباقي Al-Bāqi The Immutable, The Infinite, The Everlasting 55:27 97 الوارث Al-Wārith The Heir, The Inheritor of All 15:23 98 الرشيد Ar-Rashīd The Teacher 2:256 99 الصبور As-Sabur The Timeless, The Patient 2:153, 3:200, 103:3
Meet Herukhuti from the Ancient Egyptian (Kamitic) Paut Neteru (so-called company of the gods):

http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/77d/7ce/77d7ce29-07d9-4a4a-b771-f1aaa2accfd6

...Herukhuti ALIAS: Al-Hakam, Al-`Adl (there are no doubt more).

Meet Tehuti:

http://www.hermes3.net/images/Thoth/thoth5sm.jpg

...ALIAS: Ar-Rashīd, Al-Hakīm (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hak%C4%ABm&action=edit&redlink=1)...etc.

Meet Ausar:

http://www.nubeing.com/unblind2/images/ausar.jpg

ALIAS: Al-'Ahad...

I could go on but you get the point.

These "gods" were simply attributes of the one god, called Neb-Er-Tcher (Lord of all the worlds). To worship the image of Ausar is no different than if one was to worship Allah using the name Al-'Ahad. In fact it is a more intimate way to worship the one god because using the imagery one is more effectively reminded of the particular attribute of God as well as subconsciously instilling that attribute within oneself (imagery effect the subconscious more effectively than regular words).

So long as one understands that they are not worshiping a separate, lesser "god" just as one must have this understanding when using the many different names of Allah, then it is in no way the "many god" way of life that you thought it was.

HETEPU

Hellspawn
05-18-2010, 04:57 AM
These "gods" were simply attributes of the one god, called Neb-Er-Tcher (Lord of all the worlds)....


....it is a more intimate way to worship the one god

That's exactely what I've said you can explain it differently but this is ; ONE true god and lesser beigns to worship, it was in fact MY interpretation of polytheism.

On the other hand, how can be other "gods" ibesides one of them called the King, or the Highest, the Greatest or especially the INDIVISIBLE or the UNIQUE or the OWNER OF ALL SOVEREIGNTY or the INCOMPARABLE ? it don't really make sens.

How the Self Sufficient needs the company of other gods ? didnt the Quran said (if you agree to take the Quran as a valid source) :
Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD.
The Absolute GOD.
Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
None equals Him."

Moreover, how can The Fashioner of All Forms be fashioned ?

How can you put an image for the Magnificient, the Sublime ?



Sorry but it don't make sens to me because images or statues to worship is still worshipping idols. The same as Abraham people or the arab tribes before Muhammad or the christians making images and statues of Jesus to worship as a parallel to the creator of everything.

And, the most important, why do you need to subconsciously instill that attribute within yourself ? is it more logical than worship an Omnipotent God wich is the creator of every thing (I think we can agree that these images lack the attribute of creating "stuff") and who is beyond man imagination or be like " ok now I worship the Judge attribute of the suprememe beign and Poof! imagine a man with falcon head and a sword.... let me now worship the Wise image of the god of the worlds Poof! with his pen and papyrus...etc..." ?

Can you imagine these people with falcon heads, clothes and long hairs wash their clothes, comb their hair, eat, drink and go to the toilet ? How can they have the status of god if they have human attributes in the same time ?

Face of the Golden Falcon
05-18-2010, 06:18 AM
That's exactely what I've said you can explain it differently but this is ; ONE true god and lesser beigns to worship, it was in fact MY interpretation of polytheism.

It didn't seem to me that you considered these "lesser gods" as attributes of the one god. It seemed to me as though you considered them as seperate "gods" in and of themselves.

On the other hand, how can be other "gods" ibesides one of them called the King, or the Highest, the Greatest or especially the INDIVISIBLE or the UNIQUE or the OWNER OF ALL SOVEREIGNTY or the INCOMPARABLE ? it don't really make sens.

...you tell me. How can you use many different titles for the one god without thinking that they are all 99 separate gods?

How the Self Sufficient needs the company of other gods ? didnt the Quran said (if you agree to take the Quran as a valid source) :
Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD.
The Absolute GOD.
Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.
None equals Him."

The gods do not simply accompany the one god, they are the one god. Just as my feet are part of me that make up one body.

Moreover, how can The Fashioner of All Forms be fashioned ?

It can't. The fashioner of all forms always has and always will be. The fashioner, though fashions all forms out of (or maybe more accurately within) itself.

How can you put an image for the Magnificient, the Sublime ?

How can you put a word for the Magnificent, the Sublime? Both words and images are the same. They are symbols that can never do justice to the truth. They are however what we have to communicate with.

Sorry but it don't make sens to me because images or statues to worship is still worshipping idols. The same as Abraham people or the arab tribes before Muhammad or the christians making images and statues of Jesus to worship as a parallel to the creator of everything.

Every time you use a title or name for god you attempt to create a parallel to the creator of everything. You may not see it this way, but just as you don't see it this way neither do those who use images instead of words.

And, the most important, why do you need to subconsciously instill that attribute within yourself ? is it more logical than worship an Omnipotent God wich is the creator of every thing (I think we can agree that these images lack the attribute of creating "stuff")

I need to instill that attribute because I strive to be righteous. Who better than the One who is righteousness itself to guide me on the path of righteousness. And of course the images themselves cannot create "stuff" I never said they could. They are attributes of the one god, they keep my mind on these attributes just as when you use one of the names of the 99 to keep your mind on the many glorious attributes of the one god.

and who is beyond man imagination or be like " ok now I worship the Judge attribute of the suprememe beign and Poof! imagine a man with falcon head and a sword.... let me now worship the Wise image of the god of the worlds Poof! with his pen and papyrus...etc..." ?

I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Can you imagine these people with falcon heads, clothes and long hairs wash their clothes, comb their hair, eat, drink and go to the toilet ? How can they have the status of god if they have human attributes in the same time ?

Are the 99 names of Allah attributes of God or Man? Can they not be seen in both?

We no doubt differ in our opinion of who and what Man is. This is going to make it tough for us to reach a conclusive agreement.

This will not however stop me from wishing you peace and blessings on your journey to the creator and I know it will not stop you from returning those well wishes.

Peace Hellspawn

HETEPU

Mumm Ra
05-18-2010, 06:59 AM
if the goal of spirituality is to alter behavior to match that of the creator's attributes (to be one with)
then scientifically speaking, i cant see any way better than the use of images to guide one's way to that goal
as images (the imagination) is the main factor in behavioral manipulation

...no the images themselves are not being worshiped - that's just silly - they are tools

that'd be like equating choir singing to worshiping music over god

....but then if my definition of spirituality is different from anyone else's i guess this post is null and void :dead:

Hellspawn
05-18-2010, 07:53 AM
It didn't seem to me that you considered these "lesser gods" as attributes of the one god. It seemed to me as though you considered them as seperate "gods" in and of themselves.

I think it is more or less the same as they have a distinct shaped form and personnalities they're like different beigns even if you say they are attributes.

...you tell me. How can you use many different titles for the one god without thinking that they are all 99 separate gods?

Just because the God whom I speak can not defined by one title regarding to his superiority, these are all his attribute as He can Merciful AND Vengeful for example. the mercifulness dont undo the vengefulness nor can be separated from it. These are adjectives and not separated beigns. And Mostly because He insisted about His Oneness that the image of the plurality can't even cross my mind.

The gods do not simply accompany the one god, they are the one god. Just as my feet are part of me that make up one body.

distinct shaped form and personnalities

Can your feet decide to walk without the rest of the body ? actually no.

How can you put a word for the Magnificent, the Sublime? Both words and images are the same. They are symbols that can never do justice to the truth. They are however what we have to communicate with.

Words and images are not the same.

The attributes of god as words are given by god himself in the Quran.

The images are made by man through imagination.


Every time you use a title or name for god you attempt to create a parallel to the creator of everything. You may not see it this way, but just as you don't see it this way neither do those who use images instead of words.

I don't understand this part.

(but just as you don't see it this way neither do those who use images instead of words... understand how we can use a word instead of an image ???)

I need to instill that attribute because I strive to be righteous. Who better than the One who is righteousness itself to guide me on the path of righteousness.

Some attribute you can try to attain like the Just for example (as much as you can) but God will be the Most Just as the absolute justice (which you can't attain), the absolute generosity (giving you ears, eyes, feet).

But others attributes are inattainable (??? can I say this?/not reachable) like the Everlasting (you can tell me I achieve something that last, but it's not you). The Originator, the first, the Last, THE PRAISEWORTHY !!!! the Subsisting, the Omniscient.

Are the 99 names of Allah attributes of God or Man? Can they not be seen in both?

Most not. Those who can are not absolute they are relative.

We no doubt differ in our opinion of who and what Man is. This is going to make it tough for us to reach a conclusive agreement.

This will not however stop me from wishing you peace and blessings on your journey to the creator and I know it will not stop you from returning those well wishes.

Peace Hellspawn

HETEPU

Well of course we can discuss in a civil manner but this won't keep us from wishing peace and beign friends coz we both strive for perfection and walk the same path (in different manner) to achieve the same goal. I just wanted to know your vision.

Peace

Urban_Journalz
05-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Polytheism is looking at a number of leaves on a very very very big tree.

Monotheism is generally looking at the tree from so far away you can't make it out clearly.

Enlightenment is seeing the tree as its individual atoms and as the whole tree. Knowing every atom in the tree, and being able to understand them as molecules, compounds, organelles, cells, tissues, organs, and as the tree. It is knowing the tree. That is enlightenment. It's not as easy as trying to read each leaf as a part of creation or just glancing at the tree from afar and saying that is God. I don't understand it, but that's what it is.

I disagree wholeheartedly about the tree being clear, because it all depends on the seeer's vision.

Uncle Steezo
05-19-2010, 11:11 AM
good convo between hellspawn n falcon.

"words are not images"
"words are the same as images"

this is what it boils down to.


words are the vibration of imagery. similar to during a phone call, how your voice is encoded into digital signals then decoded back into sound, words are encoded images, that when received, construct images in the receivers mind.

if i say "elegant" you automatically envision the definition of that word and most likely all things associated with that word.
if i say "grotesque" you visualize something ugly...an image.

by definition of the process when you give something, specifically God, a title/name, you have attempted to define it. some call that objectifying. some call that idolizing. i see at an attempt to understand something beyond our full understanding.

i don't see the difference in calling Allah "Al-Qahhar (The Subduer)"
and this
http://images.tribe.net/tribe/upload/photo/77d/7ce/77d7ce29-07d9-4a4a-b771-f1aaa2accfd6
A picture is worth 1000 words.
the falcon representing vision, insight, clearity. the sword representing enforcement of ma'at (divine law) for example...

Side Note: the actual glyphs have not only metaphoric sybology but mathematics encoded into them as well..


its like, yall know me as STYLE from wucorp. some of yall define me thru the gen chat lens, some thru the ktl lens, some thru the booth some thru the graphix.

my son defines me in a completely different way.

they are all me.., but none of the completely define me. to accurately define me would be a synergy of all these definitions.


you could list my attributes(names)...

or you could draw me with 6 arms... one holding a baby(father), one with a book(ktl), one with a paintbrush(gfx) one holding a mic(booth) one strangling TSA (gen chat), one outstretched in friendship(cause i'm friendly)

then put a fox head and crow wings to rep the james crow/wunded fox monikers. a S.T.Y.L.E. tatt on my belly. and make me like 100 ft tall cause i'm the tallest person on the site.



peace.
http://dummidumbwit.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/shiva.jpg

Hellspawn
05-19-2010, 02:54 PM
but none of it will be the real you and each one of us will draw a different picture.

Uncle Steezo
05-19-2010, 03:57 PM
but none of it will be the real you and each one of us will draw a different picture.
somewhat true...
ALL of them are me but NONE of them completely define me.

now apply that to 99 names..

it would imply that all the wonder and glory of God can be summed up in 99 words...words that are human in origin.

i'm not saying that naming or visualizing God is wrong, i'm saying its all we can do to attempt to understand God by transmuting the unseen into the seen via words and pictures.




idk if you are familiar with the parable about the 3 blind men and the elephant...

3 blind men encounter an elelphant. one feels the leg and says its a tree(treetrunk), one feels the ear and says its a bird(wing), one feels the trunk and says its a snake.

Hellspawn
05-19-2010, 04:48 PM
now apply that to 99 names..

it would imply that all the wonder and glory of God can be summed up in 99 words...words that are human in origin.

These names were in the Quran and as the Quran is the word of god (if you don't believe that the Quran is the word of god, this is another story) they are given by god and not by men.

The prophet Muhammad also said that these names are those that god chose to let us know because he has alot more and most of them we can't understand because they are far away from our imagination (He only revealed those that man is susceptible to understand).

Peace

Uncle Steezo
05-20-2010, 03:57 PM
once the word of God is expressed through spoken word, written word or picture, it is no longer the word of God. It is the words of men, divinely inspired by God.

lets be really real here...
God did not physically write anything.
God speaks thru his prophets but his prophets are limited by language.

a bite of a good steak has way more intricacies of flavor and texture than you could ever describe in words. the only way to experience the flavor is to taste it.
i believe that the same goes for the "word" of God.

LORD NOSE
05-20-2010, 04:21 PM
once the word of God is expressed through spoken word, written word or picture, it is no longer the word of God. It is the words of men, divinely inspired by God.

lets be really real here...
God did not physically write anything.
God speaks thru his prophets but his prophets are limited by language.

a bite of a good steak has way more intricacies of flavor and texture than you could ever describe in words. the only way to experience the flavor is to taste it.
i believe that the same goes for the "word" of God.


repped

Hellspawn
05-21-2010, 10:32 AM
lets be really real here...
God did not physically write anything.
God speaks thru his prophets but his prophets are limited by language.

Thats exactely why people believe the Quran is the words of god, because it is superior to any langage. Superior in the meaning, superior in the rhymes, superior in the historical informations and superior in the scientific facts that were known to nobody back then. Also superior grammatically and superior mathematically (exact same number of each letter and stuff like that).

V4D3R
05-21-2010, 10:49 AM
This thread was about the real moment where the concept of religion was used to control us not about god/Allah/creator.

Face of the Golden Falcon
05-21-2010, 06:29 PM
...hopefully through a better understanding of god/Allah/Creator and what is considered his word (which is often the foundation of many religions) we can break free of the control that these words of men (however divinely inspired) have over us...?

HETEPU