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SID
04-16-2007, 06:33 AM
i wanna know all your views on the religon, (dont hold any of your thoughts back), the future (outcome)of the religon, its affect on todays society...everything.... if you have any questions just ask...

you have almost definetly covered this subject before but none the less i still wanna hear your views (fuck the televisions biased garbage, id rather no what y,all think)



PEACE

Imperial1
04-16-2007, 12:45 PM
My views on it are simple.

I bear witness that there is none worthy of worship other than Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger.

I am not a perfect muslim, though I do try to be.

Anyone who misconcepts my Islamic beliefs, I will definitely try my best to clear that person of their misconception.

Imperial1

T-Wisted
04-16-2007, 01:23 PM
I know some muslims they're normal for as far people are normal then.

Kong
04-16-2007, 01:44 PM
Sometimes it seems like many don't know how to use the rules that are set in the real world.

SID
04-16-2007, 01:46 PM
what rules?

Kong
04-16-2007, 02:03 PM
Stuff like being around gay people, people that don't follow what they follow. I think a lot in the religion are confused on things like this but are afraid to question it fully. They don't seem like they know how to just be around people from different walks. Some have it all worked out, but I think they have probably worked to hard to justify it all, same thing goes for most if not all religions.

Urban_Journalz
04-16-2007, 04:02 PM
i wanna know all your views on the religon, (dont hold any of your thoughts back), the future (outcome)of the religon, its affect on todays society...everything.... if you have any questions just ask...

you have almost definetly covered this subject before but none the less i still wanna hear your views (fuck the televisions biased garbage, id rather no what y,all think)



PEACE

There's no other way to put this Bro, Islam is power. Period.

When practiced to it's full potential, when the prayers are said from the heart instead of with the mouth, when you read The Qur'an and allow it to both give you hope and properly terrify you, when you feel bad for people who don't know and aren't trying to find out, when you feel like Mecca is a home you've never known, Al-Islam, to me, is the most beautiful thing in the world.
Islam is the law of the universe laid out in black and white. It's very hard to describe fully, as only people with an open mind, faith, or both, will fully understand. Like Imperial1 said (Sallam Sis.), I'm not a perfect Muslim. When I'm on my deen (religious practice) the way I should be though, if any of you can fathom actually looking forward to the day you die, without fear, but hope and a sense of eternal safety, then you may know where real Muslims are coming from. To us, the world and everything in it is smoke and mirrors. I talk trash about the people who are scared to read The Scriptures in their entirety, but at the same time, I do understand. Those questions that we've all wanted answered, "Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going?" Islam answers them all, in ways you can't imagine, but can clearly understand if you give yourself the chance. Yes it's scary, but would you rather have the terrifying truth, or a beautiful lie? Bare in mind that the former, if you prepare for it, will actually be a blessing for you and the latter is a lot like a pornstar. Looks good from afar, but in truth, it's far from good.

I was a bit upset when I found out about all of the rules Islam gives Muslims, but then I thought, "How selfish is the way I feel?" Some people I know say, "5 prayers a day is too much." The first thing I say is, "Was it too much for Him to wake you up this morning? The very breath you took upon waking was a gift from Him." Islam is basically spiritual Kung-Fu. Kung-Fu literally means "Achievement through great effort." The Prophet Muhammad (Sal Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) said, "The most excellent jihad (defence of Islam) is the conquering of oneself." So, to not drink, smoke, fornicate, lie, steal, take a life wrongfully, etc. is better than picking up any weapon for any cause in the Eyes of The Beholder. Once I realized that these rules were set forth to make us (mankind and jinni) better than the way we behave, the question arose, "Are we that important?"

Mankind, upon reading the story of Adam and Eve (Ridy Allahu Anhum), should remember this and meditate upon it as I do. When Allah Created man, He breathed into him of His Spirit.
Again, of His Spirit. The Angels don't have Allah's Spirit in them to the best of my knowledge, nor do the jinni. So, from Adam (Alayhi Wa Sallam) all the way down to you and your great-grandchildren, have The Spirit of The Most High within you. It speaks to you when you do something you know you shouldn't. Nowadays we call it "intuition" "the 6th sense" and all that, which is fine, but the BASIS of those terms, don't forget it. Consider what got us booted. Listening to the enemy and disobeying direct orders. As soon as Adam and Eve (Alayhi Wa Sallam) ate of the tree, Allah asked 'em, "Didn't I tell you not to listen to him? That he was your enemy?" Just like your mother would tell you before she whipped yo' ass, "Didn't I tell you not to take that cookie?"
So yes, we were banished, but not destroyed and we still recieved Messengers and Scriptures reminding us of what happened, is happening and will still happen. I've always been one to say life is war, and for real, The Scriptures have Sun Tzu beaten 10-fold.


I see Islam as a constant meditation that you'll only get the full benefit of in death. Islam makes belief and faith an indestructable shield by not only the parables given, but also the vivid descriptions of past nations that were destroyed, Paradise, Hell and Judgement Day. There's a hadith that tells us of two Angels, Munkaar and Nakeer (Alayhi Wa Sallam) that come to visit us once were buried and they ask us, "Who is your Lord and who is your Messenger?" Bare in mind that these two particular Angels are anything but cute and cuddly and "They speak like thunder." To answer that question correctly, you would've had to believe in your very soul everything that you were reading and doing once you took your Shahada. If someone approached you in this life and told you they were going to kill you and the last thing you said before that battle was "Insha-Allah" (God-Willing) then The Qur'anic verse, "No fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve." was seen in you by all there to witness it. Anyone who just memorizes the prayers or The Qur'an just to be seen in the eyes of men is gonna be assed out when their buried and before then because the very thought of death scares the s**t out of them because they didn't let the Message penetrate their very soul.

Since the above example of so-called Muslims, munafiqun (hypocrites) really, is more popular today than an example of a real Muslim, at this point, it would take people who truly believe and are familiar with all of the scriptures to demolish the great amount of ignorance in and outside of Islam. The long-term future of Islam is certain in my opinion, because for anyone who's read the Prophecies given about Ad-Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) and the descension of Isa bin Maryam (Jesus. Son of Mary) Ridy Allahu Anhum (May Allah be Pleased with them), knows that truth will always conquer falsehood and Islam will indeed reign supreme. I read the Prophecies and they make perfect sense to me. It's not a thing of me thinking because I'm Muslim, then it's automatically right either. If that were the case, I'd see no problem with the existence of sectarianism. Like my mother always says, "Allah is a Common Sense God." Therefore, if it makes sense, I don't question it, because that opens the door for Shaitan and disbelief.

Islam has to be cleansed and restored to it's original self. I know it'll happen, but personally, I want to be one of the first dominos to fall in that direction. Just to put something of the prophecies on the table, among the first mentioned signs of The Hour, is, "When the slave girl (female human being) will give birth to her master." Now look around at how many children are talking back to their parents, hitting them, cursing at them, and still getting dope gear, XBox's, PlayStations and the whole 9 yards. The Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) said, "My arrival and the arrival of Judgement Day come upon you in this succession." He then held up his index and middle fingers side by side the way The RZA does in some of his photos, or like Deck in the "Shaolin Style" video game. He (S.A.W.) also said that, "The time between my death and Judgement Day is as pearls falling off of a broken necklace."

With that, Jesus, Peace and Blessings be upon him said to his disciples in regards to Judgement Day, "An unimagineable terror, that will come upon you suddenly. What would stop you from preparing for it?"

So again, Islam is, has been and always will be power in my opinion. Fore-warned is fore-armed.
All I think about on a daily basis, is the fact that I know my clock's gonna stop and I have no idea when my clock's gonna stop and I want to be as ready as possible, Insha-Allah.

Only Allah knows the future of Islam in it's full detail, but the blueprint is here, the true Believers will be the ones to bring Islam back to it's full glory.

Islam has had both positive and negative effects on today's society. More negative than positive, because the vast majority of Americans are just flat out stupid, proud of that stupidity and getting dumber as the seconds pass. There are a few people that I've known since high school though, that knew the media was full of it, because they'd think of me and be like, "He wouldn't do some stupid s**t like that." Just based on who I am and the advice I give, I'm about to send 3 of my friends copies of The Holy Qur'an by their own request. The social effects are more Yang than Yin, no doubt, but the fact is, Muslims have always been under fire from as far back as Noah (pbuh). That's why I say, the best weapons I have are studying and patience. It's one thing to quote Qur'an, but if you can back up that quote with The Gospels, Torah, Psalms and The Book of Enoch (pbuh), the haters will either leave you alone, or get mad and start yellin'.

-----------------------------------
To comment on what Alex said,
the ones that can't be around gay people have little to no understanding. These days, you really have no choice. I don't agree with homosexuality, but as long as I'm not hit on by a gay dude, I'll have no problems. If he touches me, that's his ass AND I'm claimin' self-defence. I can't be around so-called Muslims that can't be around other people from different walks either, because unless they try to harm you or change you, they're harmless.


PEACE

SID
04-16-2007, 04:53 PM
you say it like it is bro....

lord patch
04-17-2007, 12:26 AM
subhanallah


khoda hafez


There's no other way to put this Bro, Islam is power. Period.

When practiced to it's full potential, when the prayers are said from the heart instead of with the mouth, when you read The Qur'an and allow it to both give you hope and properly terrify you, when you feel bad for people who don't know and aren't trying to find out, when you feel like Mecca is a home you've never known, Al-Islam, to me, is the most beautiful thing in the world.
Islam is the law of the universe laid out in black and white. It's very hard to describe fully, as only people with an open mind, faith, or both, will fully understand. Like Imperial1 said (Sallam Sis.), I'm not a perfect Muslim. When I'm on my deen (religious practice) the way I should be though, if any of you can fathom actually looking forward to the day you die, without fear, but hope and a sense of eternal safety, then you may know where real Muslims are coming from. To us, the world and everything in it is smoke and mirrors. I talk trash about the people who are scared to read The Scriptures in their entirety, but at the same time, I do understand. Those questions that we've all wanted answered, "Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going?" Islam answers them all, in ways you can't imagine, but can clearly understand if you give yourself the chance. Yes it's scary, but would you rather have the terrifying truth, or a beautiful lie? Bare in mind that the former, if you prepare for it, will actually be a blessing for you and the latter is a lot like a pornstar. Looks good from afar, but in truth, it's far from good.

I was a bit upset when I found out about all of the rules Islam gives Muslims, but then I thought, "How selfish is the way I feel?" Some people I know say, "5 prayers a day is too much." The first thing I say is, "Was it too much for Him to wake you up this morning? The very breath you took upon waking was a gift from Him." Islam is basically spiritual Kung-Fu. Kung-Fu literally means "Achievement through great effort." The Prophet Muhammad (Sal Allahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) said, "The most excellent jihad (defence of Islam) is the conquering of oneself." So, to not drink, smoke, fornicate, lie, steal, take a life wrongfully, etc. is better than picking up any weapon for any cause in the Eyes of The Beholder. Once I realized that these rules were set forth to make us (mankind and jinni) better than the way we behave, the question arose, "Are we that important?"

Mankind, upon reading the story of Adam and Eve (Ridy Allahu Anhum), should remember this and meditate upon it as I do. When Allah Created man, He breathed into him of His Spirit.
Again, of His Spirit. The Angels don't have Allah's Spirit in them to the best of my knowledge, nor do the jinni. So, from Adam (Alayhi Wa Sallam) all the way down to you and your great-grandchildren, have The Spirit of The Most High within you. It speaks to you when you do something you know you shouldn't. Nowadays we call it "intuition" "the 6th sense" and all that, which is fine, but the BASIS of those terms, don't forget it. Consider what got us booted. Listening to the enemy and disobeying direct orders. As soon as Adam and Eve (Alayhi Wa Sallam) ate of the tree, Allah asked 'em, "Didn't I tell you not to listen to him? That he was your enemy?" Just like your mother would tell you before she whipped yo' ass, "Didn't I tell you not to take that cookie?"
So yes, we were banished, but not destroyed and we still recieved Messengers and Scriptures reminding us of what happened, is happening and will still happen. I've always been one to say life is war, and for real, The Scriptures have Sun Tzu beaten 10-fold.


I see Islam as a constant meditation that you'll only get the full benefit of in death. Islam makes belief and faith an indestructable shield by not only the parables given, but also the vivid descriptions of past nations that were destroyed, Paradise, Hell and Judgement Day. There's a hadith that tells us of two Angels, Munkaar and Nakeer (Alayhi Wa Sallam) that come to visit us once were buried and they ask us, "Who is your Lord and who is your Messenger?" Bare in mind that these two particular Angels are anything but cute and cuddly and "They speak like thunder." To answer that question correctly, you would've had to believe in your very soul everything that you were reading and doing once you took your Shahada. If someone approached you in this life and told you they were going to kill you and the last thing you said before that battle was "Insha-Allah" (God-Willing) then The Qur'anic verse, "No fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve." was seen in you by all there to witness it. Anyone who just memorizes the prayers or The Qur'an just to be seen in the eyes of men is gonna be assed out when their buried and before then because the very thought of death scares the s**t out of them because they didn't let the Message penetrate their very soul.

Since the above example of so-called Muslims, munafiqun (hypocrites) really, is more popular today than an example of a real Muslim, at this point, it would take people who truly believe and are familiar with all of the scriptures to demolish the great amount of ignorance in and outside of Islam. The long-term future of Islam is certain in my opinion, because for anyone who's read the Prophecies given about Ad-Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) and the descension of Isa bin Maryam (Jesus. Son of Mary) Ridy Allahu Anhum (May Allah be Pleased with them), knows that truth will always conquer falsehood and Islam will indeed reign supreme. I read the Prophecies and they make perfect sense to me. It's not a thing of me thinking because I'm Muslim, then it's automatically right either. If that were the case, I'd see no problem with the existence of sectarianism. Like my mother always says, "Allah is a Common Sense God." Therefore, if it makes sense, I don't question it, because that opens the door for Shaitan and disbelief.

Islam has to be cleansed and restored to it's original self. I know it'll happen, but personally, I want to be one of the first dominos to fall in that direction. Just to put something of the prophecies on the table, among the first mentioned signs of The Hour, is, "When the slave girl (female human being) will give birth to her master." Now look around at how many children are talking back to their parents, hitting them, cursing at them, and still getting dope gear, XBox's, PlayStations and the whole 9 yards. The Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) said, "My arrival and the arrival of Judgement Day come upon you in this succession." He then held up his index and middle fingers side by side the way The RZA does in some of his photos, or like Deck in the "Shaolin Style" video game. He (S.A.W.) also said that, "The time between my death and Judgement Day is as pearls falling off of a broken necklace."

With that, Jesus, Peace and Blessings be upon him said to his disciples in regards to Judgement Day, "An unimagineable terror, that will come upon you suddenly. What would stop you from preparing for it?"

So again, Islam is, has been and always will be power in my opinion. Fore-warned is fore-armed.
All I think about on a daily basis, is the fact that I know my clock's gonna stop and I have no idea when my clock's gonna stop and I want to be as ready as possible, Insha-Allah.

Only Allah knows the future of Islam in it's full detail, but the blueprint is here, the true Believers will be the ones to bring Islam back to it's full glory.

Islam has had both positive and negative effects on today's society. More negative than positive, because the vast majority of Americans are just flat out stupid, proud of that stupidity and getting dumber as the seconds pass. There are a few people that I've known since high school though, that knew the media was full of it, because they'd think of me and be like, "He wouldn't do some stupid s**t like that." Just based on who I am and the advice I give, I'm about to send 3 of my friends copies of The Holy Qur'an by their own request. The social effects are more Yang than Yin, no doubt, but the fact is, Muslims have always been under fire from as far back as Noah (pbuh). That's why I say, the best weapons I have are studying and patience. It's one thing to quote Qur'an, but if you can back up that quote with The Gospels, Torah, Psalms and The Book of Enoch (pbuh), the haters will either leave you alone, or get mad and start yellin'.

-----------------------------------
To comment on what Alex said,
the ones that can't be around gay people have little to no understanding. These days, you really have no choice. I don't agree with homosexuality, but as long as I'm not hit on by a gay dude, I'll have no problems. If he touches me, that's his ass AND I'm claimin' self-defence. I can't be around so-called Muslims that can't be around other people from different walks either, because unless they try to harm you or change you, they're harmless.


PEACE

The Hound
04-17-2007, 03:56 AM
if only muslims would come to other countries and live by other countries laws ... culture and environment instead of tryna change everything to suit their needs ...

SID
04-17-2007, 06:11 AM
"f only muslims would come to other countries and live by other countries laws ... culture and environment instead of tryna change everything to suit their needs ..."

most do g..........allow the generalisation

Black Man
04-17-2007, 09:36 AM
the religion of "islam" is what it is. anybody who really knows (the truth) about islam knows that it's not a religion, it was never taught to be a religion by the prophet muhammad, nor does "islam" mean submission to the will of allah. are there good things that come from the religion? yes. does the good outweigh the bad? nope. did islam start with prophet muhammad? no. was "allah" known before the prophet muhammad or any religion of islam? yup. does muslim mean one wh submits to the will of allah? emphatically no!

SID
04-17-2007, 11:14 AM
if your talkin from a 5%er ideology.......i will leave it as that... (if your read the story of how the five pecenters started you will see there is nothing divine bout it homie)

SID
04-17-2007, 11:16 AM
islam does not stand for (i self lord and master) nor does allah stand for (arm arm leg leg arm head), they are ARABIC wordz, some dudes jus thought heyyy...it could stand for that so they changed it...

Imperial1
04-17-2007, 12:22 PM
islam does not stand for (i self lord and master) nor does allah stand for (arm arm leg leg arm head), they are ARABIC wordz, some dudes jus thought heyyy...it could stand for that so they changed it...

Exactly!

Imperial1

Black Man
04-17-2007, 12:22 PM
if your talkin from a 5%er ideology.......i will leave it as that... (if your read the story of how the five pecenters started you will see there is nothing divine bout it homie)

what's the 5% ideology on islam? what's the 5% ideology on the meaning of islam and muslim?

there's nothing divine about al-islam homie....islam is not a religion.

btw, i don't need to "read" anything on how the 5% started, however you might want too because I know you don't know how they started nor do you know where they started etc. etc.

Black Man
04-17-2007, 12:24 PM
islam does not stand for (i self lord and master) nor does allah stand for (arm arm leg leg arm head), they are ARABIC wordz, some dudes jus thought heyyy...it could stand for that so they changed it...

islam and allah pre-date the arabic language (meaning they were used in other languages prior to usage in arabic)

WARPATH
04-17-2007, 12:25 PM
Islam is an awesome way of life!

Imperial1
04-17-2007, 12:29 PM
what's the 5% ideology on islam? what's the 5% ideology on the meaning of islam and muslim?

According to your 5% views in your first post of this thread, the 5% ideology on islam is that the word "islam" doesn't mean submission and the word "muslim" doesn't mean one who's in submission to Allah. Islam existed before clarence 13x, so that 5%er view means nothing to me.


there's nothing divine about al-islam homie....islam is not a religion.

There is nothing divine about the black man either. Allah is the only divine being that doesn't die.


btw, i don't need to "read" anything on how the 5% started

Obviously you do.

, however you might want too because I know you don't know how they started nor do you know where they started etc. etc.

Even though this wasn't directed at me I'll simply state that the ideology of NGE is interesting but the "man is god" belief does not fly well with me and not enough for me to want to go THAT deep into reading how it started. Plus, I pretty much know enough of the foundation of it anyways.

Imperial1

Imperial1
04-17-2007, 12:30 PM
islam and allah pre-date the arabic language (meaning they were used in other languages prior to usage in arabic)

Islam and Allah are arabic words that came from two words in another language, but are not the same words in the language which those two words came from. In other words, they are derivatives of two other words from another language.

Imperial1

WARPATH
04-17-2007, 12:33 PM
islam and allah pre-date the arabic language (meaning they were used in other languages prior to usage in arabic)


And using English to understand these concepts is the way that Islam should be understood?

A lot of information/knowledge/understanding get lost just in the meaning of the vocabulary that we speak. The english language has become Generic(in my opinion).

Arabic or English- there's difference in understanding concepts just becuase of how we speak. How we think in these languages.

Black Man, you should know, your always pointing out and trying to define different English terms.

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2007, 12:43 PM
you say it like it is bro....

subhanallah


khoda hafez

Shukronz to both of you Brothers. It's just ill to know I'm not talkin' to a brick wall and there are still some insightful and intelligent people out there.

the religion of "islam" is what it is. anybody who really knows (the truth) about islam knows that it's not a religion, it was never taught to be a religion by the prophet muhammad, nor does "islam" mean submission to the will of allah. are there good things that come from the religion? yes. does the good outweigh the bad? nope. did islam start with prophet muhammad? no. was "allah" known before the prophet muhammad or any religion of islam? yup. does muslim mean one wh submits to the will of allah? emphatically no!

You say, "Islam is what it is." Then you contradict it with "Does 'Muslim' mean 'One who submits to the Will of Allah? Emphatically no!" Like Sidious said, if you're talking about 5%er stuff, then that's something completely different and it really has no basis in this conversation.

You say the good doesn't outweigh the bad in Islam, I'd like you to tell us exactly how that is and what elements make this so.

Also, if "Muslim" doesn't mean, "One who submits to Allah", then I'd certainly like to know what it means as well. Make sure you bring a sound defence and not some wacky pnemonic meaning.

To further correct the errors of your statement, Islam WAS taught as a religion by The Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) On the Farewell Pilgrimage in Mecca, this verse was revealed to The Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.),
"This day I have completed your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have selected for your Way of Life, Al-Islam."-The Qur'an 5:3
So, I'd like to know if what you said has any real backing, or wether you were just talking for the sake of being heard.....again.

islam does not stand for (i self lord and master) nor does allah stand for (arm arm leg leg arm head), they are ARABIC wordz, some dudes jus thought heyyy...it could stand for that so they changed it...

True indeed. There's no solid structure behind that ideology and no rules. They were probably high as kites when that mess was thought up. It just makes it's believer think he or she is better than other people that don't look like them. Most 5's, with the exception of cats like The RZA and Ghostface, ho clearly have studied and still do study TRUE Islam, shouldn't even speak on it because most just have no clue what they're talkin' about.

SID
04-17-2007, 12:49 PM
"btw, i don't need to "read" anything on how the 5% started, however you might want too because I know you don't know how they started nor do you know where they started etc. etc."

dude do your history if you affirm so strongly with the 5%er movement.....clarence 13 x was a korean war veteran...when he got back to the usa he joined THE NATION OF ISLAM..and the fruit of islam (noi bodyguards). He questioned some of wallace fard muhammeds teachings..got kicked out the nation..and started teaching his OWN version(changing his name to allah) simple as that. Nothing divine about it just another black power movement, but unlike the real black prince malcom x he never got the fact that there is no need for radical ofshoots of islam mixed with a bit of black supremacy, al islam is all you need to achieve the status in society we all deserve..we are all brothers in islam (jews christians,blacks,browns,whites,yellows) there is no segregation!
the NGE is just another movement to re-affirm the black mans status in society ( god / the original man), understandably! the black race has been attacked by everyone since the begining (from fear no doubt), but as malcom learned as many others have, al islam is a brotherhood of mankind, the NGE is one mans (ego-driven) version of the truth..


PEACE

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2007, 01:13 PM
"btw, i don't need to "read" anything on how the 5% started, however you might want too because I know you don't know how they started nor do you know where they started etc. etc."

dude do your history if you affirm so strongly with the 5%er movement.....clarence 13 x was a korean war veteran...when he got back to the usa he joined THE NATION OF ISLAM..and the fruit of islam (noi bodyguards). He questioned some of wallace fard muhammeds teachings..got kicked out the nation..and started teaching his OWN version(changing his name to allah) simple as that nothing divine about it just another black power movement, but unlike the real black prince malcom x he never got the fact that there is no need for radical ofshoots of islam mixed with a bit of black supremacy, al islam is all you need to achieve the status in society we all deserve..we are all brothers in islam (jews christians,blacks,browns,whites,yellows) there is no segregation!
the NGE is just another movement to re-affirm the black mans status in society ( god / the original man), understandably! the black race has been attacked by everyone since the begining (from fear no doubt), but as malcom learned as many others have al islam is a brotherhood of mankind, the NGE is one mans (ego-driven) version of the truth..


PEACE

Word 'em up. Y'all should really listen to this cat, cuz he's tellin' the truth. Allah also tells us in The Qur'an that He divided our languages and colors so that we may come to know one another, not so we could moan, bitch, complain, fight and scratch over who's better than who. Deeds and intentions behind those deeds are the only things that make one person better than another.

WARPATH
04-17-2007, 01:19 PM
Word 'em up. Y'all should really listen to this cat, cuz he's tellin' the truth. Allah also tells us in The Qur'an that He divided our languages and colors so that we may come to know one another, not so we could moan, bitch, complain, fight and scratch over who's better than who. Deeds and intentions behind those deeds are the only things that make one person better than another.

We have a story like that in our culture too, but since indians siad it, it has no validation.

Maybe it's because we're just to lazy to make a book about it, or maybe it's because we're always drunk or we're cuasing ourselves to halloucinate. We must be really bored to the point where we need to make up fables to entertain our children.

I'm gonna go drink a beer and try and peddle my fireworks now.......

SID
04-17-2007, 01:25 PM
i agree with that, deeds and intentions should be behind the judgment of a character, not by his race or religon, but thats simple moral stuff, simple moral stuff which the world has forgotten about!,plagued by racist propaganda, media brainwashed stereotypes and very sinister govement motives. But as i know as do many other truly enlightened people, the shit will hit the fan very soon...lets jus hope were all ready


peace

Black Man
04-17-2007, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Man http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=791056#post791056)
what's the 5% ideology on islam? what's the 5% ideology on the meaning of islam and muslim?

According to your 5% views in your first post of this thread, the 5% ideology on islam is that the word "islam" doesn't mean submission and the word "muslim" doesn't mean one who's in submission to Allah. Islam existed before clarence 13x, so that 5%er view means nothing to me.


1st, i didn't mention anything about the 5% and their ideology, that would be your doing.
2nd, islam doesn't mean submission to allah.
3rd, i don't know who clarence 13x, there's never been a clarence 13x in the nge, and the blackman is god

Quote:
there's nothing divine about al-islam homie....islam is not a religion.
There is nothing divine about the black man either. Allah is the only divine being that doesn't die.

allah is divine, and allah is the supreme being blackman so we agree.

Quote:
btw, i don't need to "read" anything on how the 5% started
Obviously you do.


likely answer from one who doesn't know.

now since you claim that islam means submission to allah, can you explain how that is?

Black Man
04-17-2007, 01:36 PM
Islam and Allah are arabic words that came from two words in another language, but are not the same words in the language which those two words came from. In other words, they are derivatives of two other words from another language.

Imperial1

what are those words that came from another language and what is the language?

SID
04-17-2007, 02:09 PM
did you read my post blackman?...thats tha truth homie

Black Man
04-17-2007, 03:49 PM
And using English to understand these concepts is the way that Islam should be understood?

A lot of information/knowledge/understanding get lost just in the meaning of the vocabulary that we speak. The english language has become Generic(in my opinion).

Arabic or English- there's difference in understanding concepts just becuase of how we speak. How we think in these languages.

Black Man, you should know, your always pointing out and trying to define different English terms.

allah and islam are not "english" terms. and don't hate that i investigate and know what words mean and you don't. study

Black Man
04-17-2007, 04:00 PM
You say, "Islam is what it is." Then you contradict it with "Does 'Muslim' mean 'One who submits to the Will of Allah? Emphatically no!" Like Sidious said, if you're talking about 5%er stuff, then that's something completely different and it really has no basis in this conversation.

nobody is talking about "5%" stuff except for you.

Also, if "Muslim" doesn't mean, "One who submits to Allah", then I'd certainly like to know what it means as well. Make sure you bring a sound defence and not some wacky pnemonic meaning.

where's my sound evidence that muslim means one who submits to allah?


To further correct the errors of your statement, Islam WAS taught as a religion by The Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.) On the Farewell Pilgrimage in Mecca, this verse was revealed to The Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W.),
"This day I have completed your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have selected for your Way of Life, Al-Islam."-The Qur'an 5:3


what the arabic word for religion?


True indeed. There's no solid structure behind that ideology and no rules. They were probably high as kites when that mess was thought up. It just makes it's believer think he or she is better than other people that don't look like them. Most 5's, with the exception of cats like The RZA and Ghostface, ho clearly have studied and still do study TRUE Islam, shouldn't even speak on it because most just have no clue what they're talkin' about


why do people on this wutang site, try to "hate" on the gods and earths, but want to use wu-tang members as a way to solidify their claims? rza says the blackman is god as does ghost. as a matter of fact, ghost didn't name his son akbar, muhammad, bilal....nope he named him Sun God....!!!!

you have no clue what you're talking about.

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 04:03 PM
Islam is what is; NOI NGE is some other ish

Black Man
04-17-2007, 04:07 PM
clarence 13 x was a korean war veteran

never a person in the korean war by the name of clarence 13x

He questioned some of wallace fard muhammeds teachings

what did he question about fard's teachings?

..got kicked out the nation

who kicked him out and for what?

Nothing divine about it just another black power movement,

every black power movement in america used the slogan "black power" and also used the red, black, and green flag....now when did anybody in the NGE use any of these methods.

but unlike the real black prince malcom x he never got the fact that there is no need for radical ofshoots of islam mixed with a bit of black supremacy

you people need to read up a little more on malcolm. speaking of which, malcolm beared witness to Allah and that the blackman was god. As a matter of fact Malcolm or Malik Shabazz (keep in mind, only those who bear witness to Elijah Muhammad utilize the name Shabazz) was very good friends with Allah and his 5%.

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 04:10 PM
he did fight in that war his name was different at the time though if thats what youre saying

Black Man
04-17-2007, 04:11 PM
i'm sitting here reading all this blah blah blah about a person's deeds, but everybody who mentioned deeds who spoke on the 5% don't utilize the deeds a person manifested, they utilize in my opinion or i believe this that and the third about an organization/nation....what happened to the deeds should be the foundation of judgement?

and you so-called muslims, judging shouldn't be in your vocabulary for you are not the judge, you are the judged.

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 04:13 PM
i'm sitting here reading all this blah blah blah about a person's deeds, but everybody who mentioned deeds who spoke on the 5% don't utilize the deeds they utilize in my opinion or i believe this that and the third....what happened to the deeds?

what deeds do you mean?

Hellspawn
04-17-2007, 04:24 PM
I still cant believe that Black Man is white????

SID
04-17-2007, 04:33 PM
black man is white!!!!!

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 04:43 PM
yeah I dont get that does he hate his own family so?

SID
04-17-2007, 04:44 PM
"clarence 13 x was a korean war veteran"
dont fuckin tell me he wasent in the korean war..that shows you know shit about your religons founder.

"He questioned some of wallace fard muhammeds teachings"
he questioned the divinity of wallace (god to the noi...proberly cuz he
wanted that status for himself) so they kicked him out

"every black power movement in america used the slogan "black power" and also used the red, black, and green flag....now when did anybody in the NGE use any of these methods"---- those are stereotypical methods...jus cuz a group dosent use, red, black and green flags that means there not a power movement?...i dont thinks so...and how can you say NGE is not a power movement when you claim that all black men are GODZ?

and dont tell me shit about malcom X you dont know shit bout him...he was a member of the NOI but converted to real islam once he saw the perfect intergration of ALL races in mecca...he was shortafter killed by the noi...he had no affiliation whatsoever with the NGE (which was not even fully formed at that time anyway)

an by the way ghostface has recently converted to islam

SID
04-17-2007, 04:45 PM
"and you so-called muslims, judging shouldn't be in your vocabulary for you are not the judge, you are the judged"

there is no judging going on what so ever just a good old-fashioned debate

WARPATH
04-17-2007, 05:07 PM
allah and islam are not "english" terms. and don't hate that i investigate and know what words mean and you don't. study

I wasn't hating, nor did I imply Allah and Islam were english terms. I was actually commending you on your ability with etamology. I was just trying to point out that words have different meanings for different languages. When someone tansalates something into another language, some of it's orignal meaning is lost.


Next time you should actually read the post before you reply.

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2007, 05:26 PM
where's my sound evidence that muslim means one who submits to allah?




You may as well have just said, " I have no proof to back this." instead of taking the 3rd grader's route. My proof lies with Abraham (S.A.W.) because he named us Muslims. READ.

As for that jibberish about 'hating on the NGE', it's the philosophy I don't agree with. Also, there's a difference between hating and disagreeing. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm hating on you. Hating is when you don't like someone or something for A: No reason, or B: Because they have something you don't. In both cases, I have NO REASON to 'hate' on the NGE. You should be ashamed of yourself, wtf am I givin' Ebonic Lessons to you for Black Attack??

Anyway, The RZA and Ghost may still talk that 'black man is god' stuff, but with RZA's titles like "A Day To God Is 1000 Years" which is directly from The Qur'an, "The 99 Attributes of Allah" which is only known in Al-Islam, and Ghostface's song "Underwater" where he clearly says, "All I heard was Allah Hu Akbar! Allah Hu Akbar! Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahim!", and in "One" where he says, "Loungin' at the mosque, suede kufi.", you know damn well that TRUE Islam is influencing these cats way more than you want to believe.

I just read Sidious' last post, so Ghost did convert, revert really, to Al-Islam. Al-Humdulillah. I knew what I heard on those last few albums wasn't just talk.

As for judgement, you have a lot of nerve to even let that slip past your fingers. You don't believe in judgement, because the idea that a living breathing person, living breathing PEOPLE rather, are gods, completely flushes the idea of Final Judgement down the drain. So wtf?? Muslims don't judge because that's not our job. When we call you on your shit, we're acting as witnesses against mankind. If you had taken the time to read about what you pretend to know so much about, this wouldn't be news to you. Muslims are witnesses against mankind and The Prophet, Peace and Blessings be upon him, is a witness against us.

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2007, 05:27 PM
I still cant believe that Black Man is white????

black man is white!!!!!

8O

Y'all better be jokin'.....

WARPATH
04-17-2007, 05:33 PM
Muslims don't judge because that's not our job. When we call you on your shit, we're acting as witnesses against mankind. If you had taken the time to read about what you pretend to know so much about, this wouldn't be news to you. Muslims are witnesses against mankind and The Prophet, Peace and Blessings be upon him, is a witness against us.

Not really trying to add fuel to the fire but....


You haven't really been fair to me in the past with your judgements. So let's just be honest about it and stop all the self ritcheousness....we can however, move forward from this point.

Urban_Journalz
04-17-2007, 05:45 PM
Not really trying to add fuel to the fire but....


You haven't really been fair to me in the past with your judgements. So let's just be honest about it and stop all the self ritcheousness....we can however, move forward from this point.

LOL!!! As you non-chalantly douse the flames with your favorite brand of kerosene.



again.....
Muslims don't judge because that's not our job. When we call you on your shit, we're acting as witnesses against mankind.

So, what you thought to be a judgement, was really my bearing witness. An observation. If it was a judgement, I'd have said something like, "You should be shot, hung, stabbed, stretched, dis-emboweled, then drawn and quartered." I'm not going to apologize for the way I responded either, because your selective memory is currently hindering you from remembering the things you said to give rise to my responses. I am honest about it, you, like so many other people are always the first ones to say, "Don't you judge me!", when all it would take is someone correcting you or not agreeing with you to feel that way and in most cases, you can't stand being wrong. I'm not here for you, so therefore I don't have to cater to you. If you're as smart as you pass yourself off to be, you'll learn to leave the past in the past.

WARPATH
04-17-2007, 05:55 PM
Your implications are judgement passing. And you continue to do so even in that last post.

By implying that my memory is selective, your passing a judgement.

Black Man
04-17-2007, 06:21 PM
"clarence 13 x was a korean war veteran"


never a person in the U.S. military by the name of clarence 13X.

dont fuckin tell me he wasent in the korean war..that shows you know shit about your religons founder.

the founder of the Nation of Gods and Earths is Allah, nor was he a founder of a religion. please, give it up. you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the NGE.

"He questioned some of wallace fard muhammeds teachings"
he questioned the divinity of wallace (god to the noi...proberly cuz he
wanted that status for himself) so they kicked him out

wrong again, and he wasn't "kicked out" if he was kicked out, what was the charge?

"every black power movement in america used the slogan "black power" and also used the red, black, and green flag....now when did anybody in the NGE use any of these methods"---- those are stereotypical methods...jus cuz a group dosent use, red, black and green flags that means there not a power movement?...i dont thinks so...and how can you say NGE is not a power movement when you claim that all black men are GODZ?

name me an organization that was a "black power movement" that didn't use the slogan "black power" or didn't use the "red, black, and green flag?"

you're using stereotypes of what a black power movement is, and again, you don't know what you're talking about.

a "power movement" is different from a "black power movement" don't exclude words.

The BLACKMAN IS GOD, has nothing to do with a "black power movement"

and dont tell me shit about malcom X you dont know shit bout him...he was a member of the NOI but converted to real islam once he saw the perfect intergration of ALL races in mecca...he was shortafter killed by the noi...he had no affiliation whatsoever with the NGE (which was not even fully formed at that time anyway)

lol....i don't know about el hajj malik el SHABAZZ!!! SHABAZZ (the god tribe as taught by T.H.E.M), you don't know about that man. I get first hand accounts by people who actually knew him such as his wife (p.b.u.h). please tell, what "muslims" utilize "SHABAZZ?" now did brother malik really leave the teachings of T.H.E.M?

an by the way ghostface has recently converted to islam

i don't care what that man "converted" to, he still bears witness that the blackman is god.

Imperial1
04-17-2007, 06:22 PM
what are those words that came from another language and what is the language?

Allah comes from the ARAMAIC word Alāhā, which means "The God."

Islam is derived from the word aslama, which carries the meaning of "surrender, submission, obedience, and peace." Aslama is an arabic word.

Imperial1

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 06:27 PM
stop lying BM he did fight in the war

Black Man
04-17-2007, 06:28 PM
I wasn't hating, nor did I imply Allah and Islam were english terms. I was actually commending you on your ability with etamology. I was just trying to point out that words have different meanings for different languages. When someone tansalates something into another language, some of it's orignal meaning is lost.


Next time you should actually read the post before you reply.

i did read what you wrote...what you wrote then is not the same as the above....maybe you should re-read what you post and make sure it's what you wanna say.

i'm aware words have different meanings in different languages and i also know that the meaning of translated words can lose some of the original meaning or it can be totally different from language to language.

etamology, when dealing with the science, you're going to the root of the word, not the connotation, not the assumed definition or anything like that, but the root.

Black Man
04-17-2007, 06:30 PM
I still cant believe that Black Man is white????

is that a problem for you?

Imperial1
04-17-2007, 06:31 PM
allah is divine, and allah is the supreme being blackman so we agree.

Allah is also ONE and not MANY, therefore, NO man is Allah. Therefore, we do NOT agree.

Imperial1

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 06:32 PM
is that a problem for you?

its a problem for you that you cant accept yourself and must pretend to be someone your not

Black Man
04-17-2007, 06:35 PM
Anyway, The RZA and Ghost may still talk that 'black man is god' stuff, but with RZA's titles like "A Day To God Is 1000 Years" which is directly from The Qur'an, "The 99 Attributes of Allah" which is only known in Al-Islam, and Ghostface's song "Underwater" where he clearly says, "All I heard was Allah Hu Akbar! Allah Hu Akbar! Bismillah Ar-Rahman Ar-Rahim!", and in "One" where he says, "Loungin' at the mosque, suede kufi.", you know damn well that TRUE Islam is influencing these cats way more than you want to believe.

why are you people trying to use wu members to justify something as if you know them.

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-17-2007, 06:47 PM
why do you pretend to be black on the internet?

Imperial1
04-17-2007, 06:54 PM
why do you pretend to be black on the internet?

Cause he wants to be on the level of God and even a real black man can't make that achievement.

Imperial1

Ultimate Fist
04-17-2007, 09:40 PM
Back on topic...

I grew up around a lot of arab muslims and they were pretty cool. I don't associate the religion with terrorism but I have my own beefs with it including:

* Muslims try to act like their religion works with science a lot better than Christianity but they still have to do the same apologist work on a lot of things where it just doesn't.
* Some muslims who are black try to downplay the religion's ties to the slave trade.
* Some of them that were Christians have a double standard where because they are angry at Christianity for various reasons, they will point all of Christianity's faults when its applied poorly and downplay similar problems in Islam
* Some muslims think all Jews are Zionists and use it as an excuse to harass them. Serious anti-semitism going on, disguised as "Anti-Zionism." I know there's a lot of sincere anti-Zionism that aint anti-semitic but y'all know damn well that some people just use anti-Zionism as an excuse to hate.
* You had to bend scripture to make Hindus "people of the book" in India.
* It creates some arrogant motherfuckers, but that's true in every religion.

Other than that, pretty much OK people. Since most of the above issues dont come up in daily life, I can get along with muslims well.

Ultimate Fist
04-17-2007, 11:40 PM
And Black Man, he DID fight in the military...

"...Now I was in the Army. I don't teach them not to go in the Army. I went and I came back. I saw action. I got the Bronze Star. I got all these medals. Now I came back home. I didn't benefit from it as by such as luxury but I did benefit by knowing how to teach a man. To teach a man to make a boy a man. This is what I did..."

http://mentoryouthstreetacademy.com/NGE16.aspx

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 02:32 AM
is that a problem for you?

No :) but obviously for you coz you're following a religion who says "white man is the devil", are you?

SID
04-18-2007, 06:16 AM
nahhh is he white 4 reals.......

SID
04-18-2007, 06:22 AM
you make me laugh "black man" first off you chat mostly shit
second you are a cocasion male calling yourself blackman, and claiming that black man is god, you are white hence you are not god but an evil race created by the scientist yacob? correct me if iam wrong....you are confused,and hating your own race...the NGE is almost exclusively a power movement created for coloured people...you are not coloured...so you are not part of that group..and never will be

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-18-2007, 07:01 AM
because he teaches that the true and living god is indeed the original.... he is not guilty of being white (in his warped mind)

SID
04-18-2007, 07:06 AM
i feel sorry for anyone with that state of mind

WARPATH
04-18-2007, 09:36 AM
i did read what you wrote...what you wrote then is not the same as the above....maybe you should re-read what you post and make sure it's what you wanna say.

i'm aware words have different meanings in different languages and i also know that the meaning of translated words can lose some of the original meaning or it can be totally different from language to language.

etamology, when dealing with the science, you're going to the root of the word, not the connotation, not the assumed definition or anything like that, but the root.

:frusty:

Black Man
04-18-2007, 10:00 AM
And Black Man, he DID fight in the military...

"...Now I was in the Army. I don't teach them not to go in the Army. I went and I came back. I saw action. I got the Bronze Star. I got all these medals. Now I came back home. I didn't benefit from it as by such as luxury but I did benefit by knowing how to teach a man. To teach a man to make a boy a man. This is what I did..."

http://mentoryouthstreetacademy.com/NGE16.aspx

i see you went to "my" website....thanks.

Black Man
04-18-2007, 10:01 AM
No :) but obviously for you coz you're following a religion who says "white man is the devil", are you?

i don't follow a religion. the nation of gods and earths is not a religion. try again buddy.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 10:08 AM
i don't follow a religion. the nation of gods and earths is not a religion. try again buddy.

ok now comment the second part of the question :)

and dont tell me :
1-what do you exactly mean with "white man"?
2-what's the devil?
3-why do you use an interrogation mark?
4-why do you write in yellow?

only Straight facts please :b

Black Man
04-18-2007, 10:20 AM
you make me laugh "black man" first off you chat mostly shit
second you are a cocasion male calling yourself blackman, and claiming that black man is god, you are white hence you are not god but an evil race created by the scientist yacob? correct me if iam wrong....you are confused,and hating your own race...the NGE is almost exclusively a power movement created for coloured people...you are not coloured...so you are not part of that group..and never will be


I will correct your error because you are in error.

yes, the white man is not god, and I don't make the claim the blackman is god, I bear witness to that truth.

no, yabub (this particular history is mentioned in the quran) did not create a race, he made a people governed by a certain nature.

i'm not confused, understanding is seeing things clearly for what they really are and not what they appear to be. it is you who is confused.

i don't hate on my own race, whatever "race" is. i speak the truth about all people.

the NGE is not a "power movenement" nor is it exclusive. people of all areas and backgrounds throughout the globe are in the NGE....white black mexican hispanic p. rican dominican brazillian indian native american arabs etc. etc....again, you speak out of ignorance.

the NGE was not created for "colored people" and I am colored by the way, again you speak out of ignorance.

again, if I chose to be an active member of the Nation of Gods and Earths, I have that ability. I am not exluded because I am "white" or "colored" for there are "white" 5% or "colored" 5%, but the ignorant (you) walk blindly in the dark and speak with the tongue of ignorance.

Black Man
04-18-2007, 10:37 AM
Just a lil' something to get the mouth wet....dealing with "Islam" let's look into the history of...

Anthropomorphism is a Greek word coming from “anthropos” meaning man and “morphe” meaning form. It represents God manifesting himself in human form.

The name Allah was the name of the Supreme God in Arabia and throughout the so-called Middle East (which was originally populated by Black People) long before Muhammad was ever born. Dr. W.C. Tisdall, inhis The Original Sources of the Qur’an, notes: “It is not possible to suppose that the recognition of the unity of God was introduced among the Arabs for the first itme by Muhammad. For the word Allah, containing as it does the definite article, is a proof tha tthose who used it were in some degree conscious fo the Divine Unity. NOW MUHAMMAD DID NOT INVENT THE WORD (ALLAH), BUT….FOUND IT ALRADY IN USE AMONG HIS FELLOW COUNTRYMEN AT THE TIME WHEN HE FIRST CLAIMED TO BE A PROPHET….

Samuel M. Zwemer, in his The Moslem Doctrine of God, says also: “But history establishes beyond a shadow of doubt that even the pagan Arabs, before Muhammad’s time, knew their chief god by the name Allah and even in a sense proclaimed His unity. In pre-Islamic literature….’ilah’ is used for any god and Al-ilah, contracted to Allah…was the name of the Supreme. Among the pagan Arabs this term denoted the chief God of their pantheon….As final proof, we have the fact the centuries before Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, or temple at Mecca, was called Beit-Allah, the house of God…

The Beit-Allah or House of God goes back 6,000 years to a time when only Black People populated Arabia. At this time the black Arabians worshipped only the one God.

In the ancient ruins of Southern Arabia, which became the center of Black rule in Arabia, the name Allah is found in the Himyaritic inscriptions. Philip Hitti, in his History of The Arabs, notes: “Allah….was the principle…deity of Makkah. THE NAME IS AN ANCIENT ONE. It occurs in two South Arabic inscriptions, one a Minaean found at al-Ula and the other Sabean (South Arabia), but abounds in the form HLH in the Lihyanite inscriptions of the fifth century BC. Lihyan, who evidently got the god from Syria, was the first center of the worship of this deity inArabia. The name occurs as hallah in the Safa inscriptions five centuries before Islam….”

The Lihyanites were not the first Arabian worshipers of Allah, only the oldest which are so documented.

Encyclopedia of Islam, Lihyan was a descendant of Djurhume, who came from Yemen (South Arabia). “their skin were black and shinning; their looks….were not hollow but round and teeming.”

The name Allah was often written simply as “Al” because the so-called Semitic or Middle Eastern languages were consonantal – they were written without vowels. One exception was the letter “A” at the beginning of the name. The second “a” (Allah phonetically is “ALA”) is not written but understood.

The worship of God as a formless spirit….did not originate with the Original Man nor was it taught by the Prophets of God. This way of viewing God began with the Greek philosophers. In the fifth century B.C., Anaxagoras reacted against the anthropomorphic God of the Black Man and Woman and instead proclaimed that God was and “infinte self-moving mind…not enclosed in any body.” But it was his successor Xenophanes who launched a full fledged attach on the God of the Original People. He condemned the God of the Ethiopians because He had a “snub nose and black hair.” Xenophanes said this way of understanding God was wrong because He is “one andincorporeal, in substance and figure around, in no way resembling man; that He is all-sight and all-hearing, but breaths not…”

This incorporeal God was standardized by Plat (427-347 B.C).

A.S. Trittin, in his Islam, observes: “The Koran and tradition (saying of the Prophet and his companions) often speak of God as if He were a man; to take two examples only, ‘When God created the world He wrote with His Hand for Himself ‘My mercy precedes My anger,’ and, ‘He opens the gates of heavenin the last third of the night, stretches out His hand and says, ‘Is there none to ask of me that I may give?’ He stays like this till dawn.’ In consequence many thought of God as (having) a body; they asked if the throne supported Him and did He fill it. He had the limbs of a man, He was a ….light in the form of a man and His hair was black light; He was a body but not like other bodies.”

“O Iblis, what prevented thee from submitting to him whom I created with MY TWO HANDS 38:75

“And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up. Their own hands are shackled and they are cursed for what they say. Nay, BOTH HIS HANDS ARE SPREAD OUT.”

Not only does he have two hands, but, like man,one is on the left and one is on the right. “And they honor not allah with the honor due Him; and the whole earth will be in HIS GRIP on the day of Resurrection and the heavens rolled up IN HIS RIGHT HAND. Glory be to Him! And highly exalted is He above what they associate (with Him).” 39:67

“Every one on it (the earth) passes away-and there endures for ever THE FACE OF THY LORD, the Lord of glory and honor. 55:26

20:39 “Put him (Moses) into a chest, then cast it into a river…there an enemy to Me and enemy to him shall take him up. And I shed on thee love from Me; and that thou mayest be brought up before MY EYES.”

“He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six days, THEN HE MOUNTED THE THRONE.” 57:4

ALLAH is the Supreme Being BLACKMAN...

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-18-2007, 10:48 AM
so how are you a Black man now?

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 10:55 AM
Just a lil' something to get the mouth wet....dealing with "Islam" let's look into the history of...

Anthropomorphism is a Greek word coming from “anthropos” meaning man and “morphe” meaning form. It represents God manifesting himself in human form.

The name Allah was the name of the Supreme God in Arabia and throughout the so-called Middle East (which was originally populated by Black People) long before Muhammad was ever born. Dr. W.C. Tisdall, inhis The Original Sources of the Qur’an, notes: “It is not possible to suppose that the recognition of the unity of God was introduced among the Arabs for the first itme by Muhammad. For the word Allah, containing as it does the definite article, is a proof tha tthose who used it were in some degree conscious fo the Divine Unity. NOW MUHAMMAD DID NOT INVENT THE WORD (ALLAH), BUT….FOUND IT ALRADY IN USE AMONG HIS FELLOW COUNTRYMEN AT THE TIME WHEN HE FIRST CLAIMED TO BE A PROPHET….

Samuel M. Zwemer, in his The Moslem Doctrine of God, says also: “But history establishes beyond a shadow of doubt that even the pagan Arabs, before Muhammad’s time, knew their chief god by the name Allah and even in a sense proclaimed His unity. In pre-Islamic literature….’ilah’ is used for any god and Al-ilah, contracted to Allah…was the name of the Supreme. Among the pagan Arabs this term denoted the chief God of their pantheon….As final proof, we have the fact the centuries before Muhammad the Arabian Kaaba, or temple at Mecca, was called Beit-Allah, the house of God…

The Beit-Allah or House of God goes back 6,000 years to a time when only Black People populated Arabia. At this time the black Arabians worshipped only the one God.

In the ancient ruins of Southern Arabia, which became the center of Black rule in Arabia, the name Allah is found in the Himyaritic inscriptions. Philip Hitti, in his History of The Arabs, notes: “Allah….was the principle…deity of Makkah. THE NAME IS AN ANCIENT ONE. It occurs in two South Arabic inscriptions, one a Minaean found at al-Ula and the other Sabean (South Arabia), but abounds in the form HLH in the Lihyanite inscriptions of the fifth century BC. Lihyan, who evidently got the god from Syria, was the first center of the worship of this deity inArabia. The name occurs as hallah in the Safa inscriptions five centuries before Islam….”

The Lihyanites were not the first Arabian worshipers of Allah, only the oldest which are so documented.

Encyclopedia of Islam, Lihyan was a descendant of Djurhume, who came from Yemen (South Arabia). “their skin were black and shinning; their looks….were not hollow but round and teeming.”

The name Allah was often written simply as “Al” because the so-called Semitic or Middle Eastern languages were consonantal – they were written without vowels. One exception was the letter “A” at the beginning of the name. The second “a” (Allah phonetically is “ALA”) is not written but understood.

The worship of God as a formless spirit….did not originate with the Original Man nor was it taught by the Prophets of God. This way of viewing God began with the Greek philosophers. In the fifth century B.C., Anaxagoras reacted against the anthropomorphic God of the Black Man and Woman and instead proclaimed that God was and “infinte self-moving mind…not enclosed in any body.” But it was his successor Xenophanes who launched a full fledged attach on the God of the Original People. He condemned the God of the Ethiopians because He had a “snub nose and black hair.” Xenophanes said this way of understanding God was wrong because He is “one andincorporeal, in substance and figure around, in no way resembling man; that He is all-sight and all-hearing, but breaths not…”

This incorporeal God was standardized by Plat (427-347 B.C).

A.S. Trittin, in his Islam, observes: “The Koran and tradition (saying of the Prophet and his companions) often speak of God as if He were a man; to take two examples only, ‘When God created the world He wrote with His Hand for Himself ‘My mercy precedes My anger,’ and, ‘He opens the gates of heavenin the last third of the night, stretches out His hand and says, ‘Is there none to ask of me that I may give?’ He stays like this till dawn.’ In consequence many thought of God as (having) a body; they asked if the throne supported Him and did He fill it. He had the limbs of a man, He was a ….light in the form of a man and His hair was black light; He was a body but not like other bodies.”

“O Iblis, what prevented thee from submitting to him whom I created with MY TWO HANDS 38:75

“And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up. Their own hands are shackled and they are cursed for what they say. Nay, BOTH HIS HANDS ARE SPREAD OUT.”

Not only does he have two hands, but, like man,one is on the left and one is on the right. “And they honor not allah with the honor due Him; and the whole earth will be in HIS GRIP on the day of Resurrection and the heavens rolled up IN HIS RIGHT HAND. Glory be to Him! And highly exalted is He above what they associate (with Him).” 39:67

“Every one on it (the earth) passes away-and there endures for ever THE FACE OF THY LORD, the Lord of glory and honor. 55:26

20:39 “Put him (Moses) into a chest, then cast it into a river…there an enemy to Me and enemy to him shall take him up. And I shed on thee love from Me; and that thou mayest be brought up before MY EYES.”

“He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six days, THEN HE MOUNTED THE THRONE.” 57:4

ALLAH is the Supreme Being BLACKMAN...


:lmao: who do you try to convince? we all know that the world Allah means god in arabic...of course it was used before in that part of the world :loser:

you're simply pathetic, I aint try to convince you of nothing but what you sayin have no sense at all...what do you want to prove?

:stroke: poor guy

you still aint answered my question tho:no:

Black Man
04-18-2007, 11:07 AM
this thread is about "islam" and not me it's obvious you want to know more about, but this isn't the thread to do it in.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 11:21 AM
it wasnt for the "are you white" part I've seen you wrote somewhere that you aint black. but it's true it aint the appropriate thread to talk! :)

keep cool man!

peace

SID
04-18-2007, 11:22 AM
i asked for everyones views on al-islam, not your views on the NGE movement. and the origin of the words islam and allah

Taylor_Made
04-18-2007, 11:23 AM
Back on topic...

I grew up around a lot of arab muslims and they were pretty cool. I don't associate the religion with terrorism but I have my own beefs with it including:

* Muslims try to act like their religion works with science a lot better than Christianity but they still have to do the same apologist work on a lot of things where it just doesn't.
* Some muslims who are black try to downplay the religion's ties to the slave trade.
* Some of them that were Christians have a double standard where because they are angry at Christianity for various reasons, they will point all of Christianity's faults when its applied poorly and downplay similar problems in Islam
* Some muslims think all Jews are Zionists and use it as an excuse to harass them. Serious anti-semitism going on, disguised as "Anti-Zionism." I know there's a lot of sincere anti-Zionism that aint anti-semitic but y'all know damn well that some people just use anti-Zionism as an excuse to hate.
* You had to bend scripture to make Hindus "people of the book" in India.
* It creates some arrogant motherfuckers, but that's true in every religion.

Other than that, pretty much OK people. Since most of the above issues dont come up in daily life, I can get along with muslims well.

How can Arabs be Anti-Semite when middle eastern Arabs are just as Semite as Jews. Muslims are anti Zionist, They hate the state of mind, not the people.

SID
04-18-2007, 11:25 AM
very true. ..arabs and jews are part of the semetic ethnicity, th only 2 existing semetic languages are arabic and hebrew


peace

Black Man
04-18-2007, 11:36 AM
The language of Arabic is not owned by religion of orthodox Al-Islam. Arabic words should not be restricted by ideological concepts that appeared hundreds of years later(al-islam). The source material of much of the language of Arabic compounds the confusion for defining in English. Many Arabic scholars are followers of the orthodox religion of Al-Islam. Even if they aren't, many Arabic scholars utilize Theo centric sources. Most people are unaware that there is a whole body of work by secular Arab scholars that needs to be utilized for a non-religious examination of Arabic language (as well as a host of artifacts that predate the Orthodox Al Islam culture in the Middle East).

Islam

The term Islam is a word which is presented with various different "meanings". The current dominant theory is that the word islam means submission or to submit. It is acknowledged by those whom hold fast to the above theory that the word islam, in part, is derived from the root word salaam (slm). Salaam means peace in Arabic. There are a number of problems that are inherent in this theory.

The etymology of the word islam does not contain any portion of it that is rooted in the word submission. As stated above it is derived from the word salaam. The word islam literally means peaceful state, in peace, or within peace. Basically it means being in a state of peace or tranquility. There is no pre-Muhammad ibn Abdullah (circa 1400 A.D.) reference to the word islam being used in conjunction with the concept of submission. That concept developed from the orthodox religion of islam describing how they saw their religion. They gave a CONNOTATION to the word islam, giving a symbolic veil to the word so that to them it meant that "submission to Allah will give you the root (peace)". Also, in all actuality, the proper name for the religion of Muslims is referred to as AL-Islam (AL is the proper noun marker), which would translate as THE Islam or THE peaceful state. As you can see, once again, there is no reference to submission or Allah in the etymology of the word.

In fact, in Arabic, there is a word that was utilized pre-Muhammad ibn Abdullah and well after in Hadith, Koranic sources, and other Arabic writings that is used for the word submission. The word that is used for submission in Arabic is khudwa, which means submission to authority or to a higher power. Islam in Arabic is not utilized as a synonym for khudwa (submission) and also there are times where one will use the word islam in a sentence where it is impossible for it to even be implied that it "means" submission.

For example:
Tariqatul islaam heya al siratil mustoquiym

Translation:
The way of islam is the straight path

In the above example it is impossible for islam to mean submission for the context does not allow for it. So, in summation, regarding the word islam the etymological root only implies it being related to the word peace (not submission) and there is no pre-orthodox religion of Al-Islam connotation for it, which implies submission. The definition of islam meaning "to submit to the will of Allah" is a later invention of religious theists.

Black Man
04-18-2007, 11:40 AM
i asked for everyones views on al-islam, not your views on the NGE movement. and the origin of the words islam and allah

WAS IT NOT YOU WHO FIRST BROUGHT THE 5% INTO THIS THREAD? YES, YES IT WAS.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 11:51 AM
The language of Arabic is not owned by religion of orthodox Al-Islam. Arabic words should not be restricted by ideological concepts that appeared hundreds of years later(al-islam). The source material of much of the language of Arabic compounds the confusion for defining in English. Many Arabic scholars are followers of the orthodox religion of Al-Islam. Even if they aren't, many Arabic scholars utilize Theo centric sources. Most people are unaware that there is a whole body of work by secular Arab scholars that needs to be utilized for a non-religious examination of Arabic language (as well as a host of artifacts that predate the Orthodox Al Islam culture in the Middle East).

Islam

The term Islam is a word which is presented with various different "meanings". The current dominant theory is that the word islam means submission or to submit. It is acknowledged by those whom hold fast to the above theory that the word islam, in part, is derived from the root word salaam (slm). Salaam means peace in Arabic. There are a number of problems that are inherent in this theory.

The etymology of the word islam does not contain any portion of it that is rooted in the word submission. As stated above it is derived from the word salaam. The word islam literally means peaceful state, in peace, or within peace. Basically it means being in a state of peace or tranquility. There is no pre-Muhammad ibn Abdullah (circa 1400 A.D.) reference to the word islam being used in conjunction with the concept of submission. That concept developed from the orthodox religion of islam describing how they saw their religion. They gave a CONNOTATION to the word islam, giving a symbolic veil to the word so that to them it meant that "submission to Allah will give you the root (peace)". Also, in all actuality, the proper name for the religion of Muslims is referred to as AL-Islam (AL is the proper noun marker), which would translate as THE Islam or THE peaceful state. As you can see, once again, there is no reference to submission or Allah in the etymology of the word.

In fact, in Arabic, there is a word that was utilized pre-Muhammad ibn Abdullah and well after in Hadith, Koranic sources, and other Arabic writings that is used for the word submission. The word that is used for submission in Arabic is khudwa, which means submission to authority or to a higher power. Islam in Arabic is not utilized as a synonym for khudwa (submission) and also there are times where one will use the word islam in a sentence where it is impossible for it to even be implied that it "means" submission.

For example:
Tariqatul islaam heya al siratil mustoquiym

Translation:
The way of islam is the straight path

In the above example it is impossible for islam to mean submission for the context does not allow for it. So, in summation, regarding the word islam the etymological root only implies it being related to the word peace (not submission) and there is no pre-orthodox religion of Al-Islam connotation for it, which implies submission. The definition of islam meaning "to submit to the will of Allah" is a later invention of religious theists.


Do you think that you know the arabic language better than arabs themselves? I speak this language everyday and it's not your poor link that will change sth to what Sidious told you }:T

Black Man
04-18-2007, 11:54 AM
Muslim

The term Muslim is another Arabic term which carries with it subtle nuances in meaning and application. In the religious world it is said to mean "one who submits to the will of Allah". As mentioned previously, the definition is often times taken on face value for people assume that those who are followers of the religion of Al-Islam "own" certain terms so "of course" they would be the best knower. Upon further examination several facts become evident.

Taking muslim to the etymological root one will find that it is derived from salaam (slm). By expanding to the word to muslim (mslm) you will get "one of peace". Therefore, from the etymological root, this appears to be the full meaning of the word. A curious fact appears upon deeper research of the term muslim which has been addressed in the writings of Supreme Scientist Allah.

The pattern mu--i-, along with the triconsonatal root pattern, s-l-m, denote "one of Peace." Again, the Muslim Community's interpretation of this word deviates quite a bit. This is because they adopt the fourth verb meaning of the roots s-l-m which, in its fullest linguistic and etymologic translation, signifies one arriving at "peace" by handing over, giving over, yielding, succumbing or surrendering to. That is the fullest translation, where were we can recognize the popular rendition of "submission.

It also should be pointed out that the word muslim can be translated, from its etymological foundation, to mean one who is at peace by "submitting" when dealing with a specific verb meaning. In addition to the etymological Understanding of the word muslim there is also record of it's usage in pre-Al-Islamic so that a pre-religious context and connotation can be drawn up.

“With this initial understanding, we shall take up as our first example the conceptual pair formed by the words muslim "Muslim" and kafir "infidel" which stand, as is obvious, in opposition to one another. If we trace these two Koranic key -terms back to the earlier pre-Islamic stage, we notice that originally they did not even form a pair. Both words were there certainly, but there was no essential connection between them. Moreover, neither of them had any religious connotation, muslim means "a man who hands over something precious to another who demands it of him" and kafir "a man who does not show gratitude to his benefactor". It is only at the second stage of development, that is within the Koranic system, that the two are put in opposition to one another...."

Black Man
04-18-2007, 11:56 AM
Do you think that you know the arabic language better than arabs themselves? I speak this language everyday and it's not your poor link that will change sth to what Sidious told you }:T

you're not the only person who speaks arabic...and since you do speak it, then you can't dispute the truth that has been revealed to you. don't accept my word, go find out for yourself which you haven't...you take things on face value.

sorry (not really) for having to tell the truth about what you thought was true.....and yes i do speak better arabic then some arabs themselves.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 11:59 AM
you're not the only person who speaks arabic...and since you do speak it, then you can't dispute the truth that has been revealed to you. don't accept my word, go find out for yourself which you haven't...you take things on face value.

sorry

you know what? thats more funny than pathetic. I think between the both of us I'm in best position to talk about my language so stop arguing and tryin to prove sth by postin links you know nothing about.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:01 PM
sorry (not really) for having to tell the truth about what you thought was true.....and yes i do speak better arabic then some arabs themselves.

:nonono:

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:05 PM
Are you lookin for another link? :)

Visionz
04-18-2007, 12:09 PM
^you should type something out in Arabic and then have him translate it (without the help of Babblefish-type sites) A show-n-prove session

SID
04-18-2007, 12:17 PM
good idea useen

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:18 PM
but it doesnt prove nothing cause we aint argin about if he speaks arabic or nor (wich i highly doubt) but if he speaks it better than alot of people untill he can discuss the sense of the words.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:22 PM
ok I need time to download and add arabic characters to my comp so i wrote this with paint + he cant copy/paste it to translate it :

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2383/sanstitrezq5.jpg

my writing id bad i know :)

Visionz
04-18-2007, 12:24 PM
^he'd have atleast a lil' to stand on if he could translate what you're saying but I feel you, alot of people speak english without understanding the roots and whatnot of the words they use

Visionz
04-18-2007, 12:26 PM
ok I need time to download and add arabic characters to my comp so i wrote this with paint + he cant copy/paste it to translate it :

http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/2383/sanstitrezq5.jpg

my writing id bad i know :)nice, being left-handed it'd be a good language for me to learn............damn ink smudges and spiral notebooks lol

SID
04-18-2007, 12:32 PM
yo hellspawn i was studin arabic on my last visit to libya..i know the letters but iam still a bit iffy on the pronounciation... the letters you wrote are (in order) elif/hamza,zel,elif kaf,noon,ya
ha,ta marboota,elif allow the rest.....i got the right letters right?

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:33 PM
nice, being left-handed it'd be a good language for me to learn............damn ink smudges and spiral notebooks lol

LOL :) damn it's hard to write with the mouse.

^he'd have atleast a lil' to stand on if he could translate what you're saying but I feel you, alot of people speak english without understanding the roots and whatnot of the words they use

yeah, he dont know that a word can have more than an explanation and all the hidden significations, he just pasted a link that suits where he wants to go.

Black Man
04-18-2007, 12:34 PM
Allah

The term Allah has an expansive history in terms of the meaning of the word. It should be mentioned at this point that Arabic is related to the whole family of Semitic languages. Therefore words that appear in Arabic often times appear in Hebrew or Aramaic. Allah is one of those words.

In fact, the name given to the God of the Torah is a manifestation of the word Allah. Every time that you see God in the English bible it is a place marker for the word El/Eloah or Elohiem. In actuality the E should be an A (Aleph in Hebrew) making Al or Alohiem. The reason that it was changed was due to the Masoretic Jewish scholars transforming the essential text. Al is a contraction of the word Allah. Where Alohiem is a plural manifestation of said word.

Many, mistakenly, have translated Allah to be a contraction of al (proper noun marker in Arabic) and ilah (one of the forms of the phoneme of Allah) so that it means “the god”. The problem inherent from casual observation is that the word God is of Gothic origin. Gothic is a much younger language complex then Arabic. Therefore it is impossible for the son to give birth to the father. Allah actually is a word in and of its self and is not a contraction.

In digging deeper into the history of said phoneme you will find it appearing in Mdw Ntr (Ancient Egyptian) as Rh/Ra (La), ar (al), and Heru/Hr (Ala). Amongst the Akkad you will find it written as iluh. Amongst the Canaanites it is written as il. There is no mystery as to the proliferation of this term in that area as Egypt gave Phoenicia their alphabet system. From that point you have a proto-Semitic script dividing into it's various offshoots. In viewing the whole scope of the word Allah what you begin to have is an etymology that goes beyond Arabic into proto-Arabic. All of these manifestations of the word Allah mean roughly the same thing, which is powerful, strong, light, or mighty. The only difference in this phoneme is it’s spelling from language to language. In actuality when one lines up ilu, ilah, ala, allah, al, etc…one can realize that it is no more then a regional pronunciation. This is similar to the regional intonations of someone from Boston vs. someone from the Deep South.

The term at no time was historically exclusive only to the concept of a formless astral deity. In fact in many cases it was used as a title for a person who performed great things. In this case etymology does not denote usage because the phoneme is not that inclusive. It is a little "vague". This is because, despite what the Western religious, anthropologic, or historic scholars tell you, just because a word is used by some now to mean an anthropomorphic abstract deity does not mean that is the way a specific cultures in the past originally utilized the word. The current Western thought is that all societies start out personifying natural forces and then evolve to develop an abstract deity that is inclusive of all of these forces (monotheism). They actually present this as gospel. There is another direction by which a deity may just be a deified ancestor. In this case it is only later that the people dealt with abstractions. In fact there is many examples of God as man and man as God. Interpretation of a word according to a worldview plays a huge part in attributing a particular connotation to words and names. We do know that early amongst many of the societies that have this phoneme that it became a proper name (Canaan, Middle East, etc.).

So in summation of the word Allah the etymology is modified by the usage during various times and in specific societies. The meaning is totally dependent on the one who is utilizing the word. Therefore, once again, it does not necessarily have a religious meaning as given by the followers of Al-Islam. Nor does it have an origin that begins with the religion of orthodox Al-Islam as brought by Muhammad Ibn Abdullah.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:35 PM
yo hellspawn i was studin arabic on my last visit to libya..i know the letters but iam still a bit iffy on the pronounciation... the letters you wrote are (in order) elif/hamza,zel,elif kaf,noon,ya
ha,ta marboota,elif allow the rest.....i got the right letters right?

"ta maftouha" that stand for "opened T", and not "marbouta" wich is "closed" like you said...but the rest is perfect.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:39 PM
Allah

The term Allah has an expansive history in terms of the meaning of the word. It should be mentioned at this point that Arabic is related to the whole family of Semitic languages. Therefore words that appear in Arabic often times appear in Hebrew or Aramaic. Allah is one of those words.

In fact, the name given to the God of the Torah is a manifestation of the word Allah. Every time that you see God in the English bible it is a place marker for the word El/Eloah or Elohiem. In actuality the E should be an A (Aleph in Hebrew) making Al or Alohiem. The reason that it was changed was due to the Masoretic Jewish scholars transforming the essential text. Al is a contraction of the word Allah. Where Alohiem is a plural manifestation of said word.

Many, mistakenly, have translated Allah to be a contraction of al (proper noun marker in Arabic) and ilah (one of the forms of the phoneme of Allah) so that it means “the god”. The problem inherent from casual observation is that the word God is of Gothic origin. Gothic is a much younger language complex then Arabic. Therefore it is impossible for the son to give birth to the father. Allah actually is a word in and of its self and is not a contraction.

In digging deeper into the history of said phoneme you will find it appearing in Mdw Ntr (Ancient Egyptian) as Rh/Ra (La), ar (al), and Heru/Hr (Ala). Amongst the Akkad you will find it written as iluh. Amongst the Canaanites it is written as il. There is no mystery as to the proliferation of this term in that area as Egypt gave Phoenicia their alphabet system. From that point you have a proto-Semitic script dividing into it's various offshoots. In viewing the whole scope of the word Allah what you begin to have is an etymology that goes beyond Arabic into proto-Arabic. All of these manifestations of the word Allah mean roughly the same thing, which is powerful, strong, light, or mighty. The only difference in this phoneme is it’s spelling from language to language. In actuality when one lines up ilu, ilah, ala, allah, al, etc…one can realize that it is no more then a regional pronunciation. This is similar to the regional intonations of someone from Boston vs. someone from the Deep South.

The term at no time was historically exclusive only to the concept of a formless astral deity. In fact in many cases it was used as a title for a person who performed great things. In this case etymology does not denote usage because the phoneme is not that inclusive. It is a little "vague". This is because, despite what the Western religious, anthropologic, or historic scholars tell you, just because a word is used by some now to mean an anthropomorphic abstract deity does not mean that is the way a specific cultures in the past originally utilized the word. The current Western thought is that all societies start out personifying natural forces and then evolve to develop an abstract deity that is inclusive of all of these forces (monotheism). They actually present this as gospel. There is another direction by which a deity may just be a deified ancestor. In this case it is only later that the people dealt with abstractions. In fact there is many examples of God as man and man as God. Interpretation of a word according to a worldview plays a huge part in attributing a particular connotation to words and names. We do know that early amongst many of the societies that have this phoneme that it became a proper name (Canaan, Middle East, etc.).

So in summation of the word Allah the etymology is modified by the usage during various times and in specific societies. The meaning is totally dependent on the one who is utilizing the word. Therefore, once again, it does not necessarily have a religious meaning as given by the followers of Al-Islam. Nor does it have an origin that begins with the religion of orthodox Al-Islam as brought by Muhammad Ibn Abdullah.

ok you won, that link make me change my mind and now i'll be a whole different person coz you're 10000% right }:|

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAa

SID
04-18-2007, 12:41 PM
black man jus drop it.....you tryin to talk to arabs about our language..it aint workin g

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:47 PM
no he's sendin the picture to an arabic guy he knows to translate it :)

SID
04-18-2007, 12:49 PM
Lol....

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 12:57 PM
For the curious ones the arabic sentence was :
"IF YOU REALLY SPEAK ARABIC IT WONT BE HARD FOR YOU TO TRANSLATE THIS SENTENCE" :)

UNCLE RUCKUS
04-18-2007, 01:05 PM
whoa good work Hellspawn! maybe he´ll go away now

Visionz
04-18-2007, 01:06 PM
For the curious ones the arabic sentence was :
"IF YOU REALLY SPEAK ARABIC IT WONT BE HARD FOR YOU TO TRANSLATE THIS SENTENCE" :) lol...........*waits for blackman to come in saying "I knew it said that, you didn't give me enough time between my cutting and pasting"

Black Man
04-18-2007, 01:06 PM
alot of people speak english without understanding the roots and whatnot of the words they use


THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR ALL PEOPLE AND THE LANGUAGE THEY SPEAK!

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 01:08 PM
Oh, he's back!

SID
04-18-2007, 01:09 PM
with nothing to say

Visionz
04-18-2007, 01:09 PM
THE SAME HOLDS TRUE FOR ALL PEOPLE AND THE LANGUAGE THEY SPEAK!true indeed, ever seen a complete Oxford Dictionary? no way anyone's gonna know either all the words contained within or the roots from which they came

Black Man
04-18-2007, 01:10 PM
all of you can say whatever you want concerning islam or the arabic language, you still can't deny the fact of what I post. all you can do is make a weak lame excuse, you don't speak arabic, or i'm arabic so i'm the best knower of arabic, blah blah blah....when real evidence is presented you re-direct the issue someplace else because you can't handle the fact that based on linguistics not a person's opinion or the connotation words have in this day and time or by certain people or groups of people, I went to the root, the foundation and that's what none of you can't mess with.

the blackman is god, the black woman is the earth, and the babies are the greatest!

Black Man
04-18-2007, 01:11 PM
true indeed, ever seen a complete Oxford Dictionary? no way anyone's gonna know either all the words contained within or the roots from which they came

a person may not know all the roots from which they came they can however know some.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 01:15 PM
a person may not know all the roots from which they came they can however know some.

*acting like BlackMan*

what do you mean with "a person"? it's not because you say "a person" that it's necessary a real person! a person can be a person but maybe it's not a person, go learn what's a person first coz i know what a person is...check this site first www.whatsaperson.org (http://www.whatsaperson.org) and then come back and talk to me.

MUAHAHAHAHAHA

Visionz
04-18-2007, 01:21 PM
all of you can say whatever you want concerning islam or the arabic language, you still can't deny the fact of what I post. all you can do is make a weak lame excuse, you don't speak arabic, or i'm arabic so i'm the best knower of arabic, blah blah blah....when real evidence is presented you re-direct the issue someplace else because you can't handle the fact that based on linguistics not a person's opinion or the connotation words have in this day and time or by certain people or groups of people, I went to the root, the foundation and that's what none of you can't mess with.

the blackman is god, the black woman is the earth, and the babies are the greatest!
so where was the blackman when the earth was created?

and btw, you went to what someone claimed as the foundation of the root word, how can you be sure the sources are accurate?

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 01:27 PM
all of you can say whatever you want concerning islam or the arabic language, you still can't deny the fact of what I post. all you can do is make a weak lame excuse, you don't speak arabic, or i'm arabic so i'm the best knower of arabic, blah blah blah....when real evidence is presented you re-direct the issue someplace else because you can't handle the fact that based on linguistics not a person's opinion or the connotation words have in this day and time or by certain people or groups of people, I went to the root, the foundation and that's what none of you can't mess with.

the blackman is god, the black woman is the earth, and the babies are the greatest!

it's you who redirect the issue somewhere else because no one is blamin you of your beliefs, you came and start arguin tryin to prove us we are wrongs. you started sayin that the word islam and allah and all aint arabic when you dont know a shit about it...i cant see where you wanna go.
I respect all religions but you came tryin to prove that everybody's wrong except you and that you are convinced that the black man is god where you aint black and you followin a mouvement where they say you are the white devil. it's the most stupid story i ever heard.

Hellspawn
04-18-2007, 01:28 PM
all that is really funny but I have to go

C ya later

peace everybody

peace BlackMan

Black Man
04-18-2007, 03:18 PM
it's you who redirect the issue somewhere else because no one is blamin you of your beliefs, you came and start arguin tryin to prove us we are wrongs. you started sayin that the word islam and allah and all aint arabic when you dont know a shit about it...i cant see where you wanna go.
I respect all religions but you came tryin to prove that everybody's wrong except you and that you are convinced that the black man is god where you aint black and you followin a mouvement where they say you are the white devil. it's the most stupid story i ever heard.

as i always say, i don't debate nor do i argue.

i kept my post related to islam.

didn't say islam or allah wasn't arabic words.

blah blah blah, i don't know shit about islam....blah blah blah...

didn't come to prove anybody wrong, just added on. it was you people who began the attack...either you thought i was talking about 5% stuff which i wasn't but everybody sure responded that way or the fact that i'm white....yes you deviated from islam to me.

what movement do i follow? everybody wants to tell me about me and what i do....just because i advocate a truth doesn't mean i'm part of an organization, religion, or nation.

me not being black has no relevance. again stick to the topic and stop worrying about what i do and what color i am.

Black Man
04-18-2007, 03:30 PM
Let's take a look at the words of the Prophet which confirm the orthodox belief that Allah will be seen by the righteous. The tradition is related of the Prophet answerreing a concern from among his companions on whether ornot they will see Allah in Paradise. The traditin goes:

"Some persons asked the Apostle of Allah: Shall we see our Lord on the day of the resurrection? the Apostle of Allah answered: Would you importune anyone with such a question regarding the moon in a night of full moon, or concerning the sun on a cloudless day? They asnwered: No. He said: In the same way you will see your Lord..."

Reported by Ahmad ibn Nasru'l-Khuza'i that teh Prophet said again, "Ye shall see your Lord in the day of judgement, as ye see the moon."

Al-Nawawi, author of Forty Hadith, says, "The postion of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH is that seeing Allah is possible andnot absurd."

the people of the Sunnah are the original followers of the prophet who transmitted his teachings.

The verse that modern orthodox, those who were originally heterodox, quote in their attempt to make Allah immaterial being that is invisible is Surah 2:3 where Allah is referred to as Al-Ghaib. The muslim writers of today deceptively translate that word as "Unseen." However, that word does not mean "unseen" in arabic it means "absent" or "to withdraw ones presence from." ALLAH is not here described by the Quran as an invisible being, but as one who has made himself absent until the day of judgment at which time he will make his presence known again.

George F. Moor, in his History of Religion, "The commonidea of God was crudely anthropomorphic. Taking the words of the koran in their natural sense, men imagined God sitting upon a throne in heaven, a being with hands and feet, eyes and ears; a body, therefore, and some doctors of repute did not hesitate to say a body of flesh and blood."

In the polemic of Jahiz (772-872) against the Nabita, which is another name for the Hashwiyya, he says of them: "But the Nabita...insisted: He is a body and it ascribed form....to Him and declared anyone who believes in the beatific vision (seeing Allah in Paradise) without 'Tajsim' (acknowledging God has a body)...to be a heretic. Again most maintain that God's word is excellent and clear, evidence and proof...that if He wished to add to it, He could; and subtract from it, he could....The acts of disobedience of this community had never exceeded sin and error...until the Nabita and their followers, THE MASSES, appeared. Now the PREVAILING trend of the generation is Kufr, that is anthropomorphism an ddeterminism."

Hisham ibn Hakim said: "Allah has a body, defined, broad, high and long, of equal dimensions, radiating with light, of a broad measure in its three dimensions...."

Scáth Bán
04-18-2007, 04:02 PM
me not being black has no relevance. again stick to the topic and stop worrying about what i do and what color i am.

Smells like a dago's in the house.


Islam - in a lot of countries that have laws that if you don't follow (or question) the religion they'll most likely kill you. Forcing people into religion is wrong.

Islamic countries seem to be the only ones not to question certain views in their religion: currently people (like Christians) can openly question current Christian ways (some Christians have applied science to their beliefs).

Nothing wrong with the religion itself though.

Ultimate Fist
04-18-2007, 09:10 PM
very true. ..arabs and jews are part of the semetic ethnicity, th only 2 existing semetic languages are arabic and hebrew


peace

This has come up before. Anti-semitism is the accepted term for hatred of the jewish people (go bug the Nazis who came up with the term if you dont like it). If you would like to suggest an alternative term for that hatred, cough it up fuckhead. You know what I mean when I say anti-semitism but just like Black Man you would rather play word games than address what I'm saying.

Imperial1
04-18-2007, 10:30 PM
For the curious ones the arabic sentence was :
"IF YOU REALLY SPEAK ARABIC IT WONT BE HARD FOR YOU TO TRANSLATE THIS SENTENCE" :)

HA! LOL

Imperial1

Imperial1
04-18-2007, 10:32 PM
all of you can say whatever you want concerning islam or the arabic language, you still can't deny the fact of what I post.

Your post wasn't fact, it was B.S. You didn't respond to my answer when you asked me where the words "Allah" and "Islam" are derived from. *whistling*

Imperial1

SID
04-19-2007, 06:16 AM
"This has come up before. Anti-semitism is the accepted term for hatred of the jewish people (go bug the Nazis who came up with the term if you dont like it). If you would like to suggest an alternative term for that hatred, cough it up fuckhead. You know what I mean when I say anti-semitism but just like Black Man you would rather play word games than address what I'm saying."

chill out dude i was just sayin that muslims and jews were part of the same fam..i wasent talkin about what you said. jus statin a fact

peace

Black Man
04-19-2007, 09:11 AM
This has come up before. Anti-semitism is the accepted term for hatred of the jewish people (go bug the Nazis who came up with the term if you dont like it). If you would like to suggest an alternative term for that hatred, cough it up fuckhead. You know what I mean when I say anti-semitism but just like Black Man you would rather play word games than address what I'm saying.

why are you bringing my name up? damn....i'm that loved? i don't play word games i simply understand the language i speak and i know the importance of word choice. instead of assuming somebody knows what you want to say, how about say exactly what your idea is and use the right words to express that idea.

Urban_Journalz
04-19-2007, 01:11 PM
Your implications are judgement passing. And you continue to do so even in that last post.

By implying that my memory is selective, your passing a judgement.

It's not an implication. You make it seem as if I said what I said for no reason at all, in fact, you wouldn't have anything to say regarding it, if you hadn't just decided to keep some shit stirred up and remind me of what I said, all the while leaving out (unless you typed it in invisible font) what brought on my response to begin with. Again, it's an observation. You deliberately made it seem like all I do is attack people with no foundation to do so, don't make me go back and repost what you typed to further make my point. If all you're gonna do is sling mud, I'm just gonna ignore you because you're obviously bored and in despereate need for another go 'round.

Urban_Journalz
04-19-2007, 01:15 PM
why are you people trying to use wu members to justify something as if you know them.

Why do you deny all the facts as if you were a child being told the right thing, the whole while he has his fingers stuck in his ears and sayin', "lalalalalalalalalala". You're hilarious, you try to argue a point and then run from other people's statements.

Urban_Journalz
04-19-2007, 01:34 PM
Let's take a look at the words of the Prophet which confirm the orthodox belief that Allah will be seen by the righteous. The tradition is related of the Prophet answerreing a concern from among his companions on whether ornot they will see Allah in Paradise. The traditin goes:

"Some persons asked the Apostle of Allah: Shall we see our Lord on the day of the resurrection? the Apostle of Allah answered: Would you importune anyone with such a question regarding the moon in a night of full moon, or concerning the sun on a cloudless day? They asnwered: No. He said: In the same way you will see your Lord..."

Reported by Ahmad ibn Nasru'l-Khuza'i that teh Prophet said again, "Ye shall see your Lord in the day of judgement, as ye see the moon."

Al-Nawawi, author of Forty Hadith, says, "The postion of the PEOPLE OF THE SUNNAH is that seeing Allah is possible andnot absurd."

the people of the Sunnah are the original followers of the prophet who transmitted his teachings.

The verse that modern orthodox, those who were originally heterodox, quote in their attempt to make Allah immaterial being that is invisible is Surah 2:3 where Allah is referred to as Al-Ghaib. The muslim writers of today deceptively translate that word as "Unseen." However, that word does not mean "unseen" in arabic it means "absent" or "to withdraw ones presence from." ALLAH is not here described by the Quran as an invisible being, but as one who has made himself absent until the day of judgment at which time he will make his presence known again.

George F. Moor, in his History of Religion, "The commonidea of God was crudely anthropomorphic. Taking the words of the koran in their natural sense, men imagined God sitting upon a throne in heaven, a being with hands and feet, eyes and ears; a body, therefore, and some doctors of repute did not hesitate to say a body of flesh and blood."

In the polemic of Jahiz (772-872) against the Nabita, which is another name for the Hashwiyya, he says of them: "But the Nabita...insisted: He is a body and it ascribed form....to Him and declared anyone who believes in the beatific vision (seeing Allah in Paradise) without 'Tajsim' (acknowledging God has a body)...to be a heretic. Again most maintain that God's word is excellent and clear, evidence and proof...that if He wished to add to it, He could; and subtract from it, he could....The acts of disobedience of this community had never exceeded sin and error...until the Nabita and their followers, THE MASSES, appeared. Now the PREVAILING trend of the generation is Kufr, that is anthropomorphism an ddeterminism."

Hisham ibn Hakim said: "Allah has a body, defined, broad, high and long, of equal dimensions, radiating with light, of a broad measure in its three dimensions...."

You really should stop pretending to know about Islam, because you don't. All you do in your so-called "study", which just smells of numerous copying and pasting, is proving that all you want to do is try your hardest to find something wrong with the doctrine. Your opinion/theory only matters to you and you alone. And whoever is sad enough to want to think like you, if you can really even call it thinking. Like I said earlier, only those with belief and faith will truly understand. Everyone else is only guessing and most of the time doing a poor job at it. We know the history of the Aramaic language, Imperial, Sidious and Hellspawn laid it down in full already. You know damn well, or at least you SHOULD know, that when languages evolve, so do the meanings of some words. However, Arabic and Hebrew, much like Spanish and Italian, are still VERY closely related and you'll find that some words that sound the same still have similar if not IDENTICAL meanings. Your precious English language is really a bunch of Latin words and phrases re-done, so save your pseudo-scholarly posts for people who'll actually be impressed by 'em.

You're not making a statement about ISLAM, you're making a statement about HIS-LAM. Taking what you want to take from The Books and leaving, if not flat out RUNNING from, the rest of them. Plus, the more you type, the more your agenda is made plain. Sid asked what we thought about it. It's o.k. to incorporate a few bits of history to back up how you feel and why, but to just toot your own horn for the sake of doing so....AGAIN....is just old and tired. Not to mention pointless.

You think power and truth lie in technicalities. Maybe in your physical realm they actually do, but don't get it twisted, Al-Islam starts with the unseen to make those who want to understand, further see the truth behind what's seen.

Black Man
04-19-2007, 02:05 PM
You really should stop pretending to know about Islam, because you don't. All you do in your so-called "study", which just smells of numerous copying and pasting, is proving that all you want to do is try your hardest to find something wrong with the doctrine.

yup i'm cutting and pasting so what! you still are unable to prove the cut and past method in error.

Your opinion/theory only matters to you and you alone.

it must matter to you because you respond to it.

Like I said earlier, only those with belief and faith will truly understand.

who are you in the islamic world? nobody important. you have no authority, you are not an islamic scholar...all you can do is belief, accept things without actually knowing. this is know the ledge which comes from the word knowledge which means to know.

Everyone else is only guessing and most of the time doing a poor job at it.

that's why you should stop guessing because you're doing a piss poor job of it.

We know the history of the Aramaic language, Imperial, Sidious and Hellspawn laid it down in full already.

no, they didn't lay down anything. i showed the reality of the true meaning, the original meaning, the root of the words islam, muslim, and allah and still you have nothing but guesses to dispute because you rely on religious connotations which the prophet himself wouldn't agree with, which by the way, i again showed how the first muslims, the prophet and his companions understood allah to be man.

You know damn well, or at least you SHOULD know, that when languages evolve, so do the meanings of some words.

yeah i do know that and when the prophet used the words muslim, islam, and allah, he didn't utilize the definitions that are used by these johnny come lately muslims in this day and time.

just like the early christian church was tampered with and the teachings changed, the same holds true with al'islam.

However, Arabic and Hebrew, much like Spanish and Italian, are still VERY closely related and you'll find that some words that sound the same still have similar if not IDENTICAL meanings. Your precious English language is really a bunch of Latin words and phrases re-done, so save your pseudo-scholarly posts for people who'll actually be impressed by 'em.


again, you're straying away again. why are you bringing up english when it's so-called arabic words that are in question? you don't want to study the etymology of these words you want to accept on face value the connotation of these words.

You're not making a statement about ISLAM, you're making a statement about HIS-LAM.

that's what you practice right? his-lam. if the muslim world got it so right and it's so holy (not diluted, mixed, or tampered with) why are there so many sects to that "one" religion?

Taking what you want to take from The Books and leaving, if not flat out RUNNING from, the rest of them. Plus, the more you type, the more your agenda is made plain. Sid asked what we thought about it. It's o.k. to incorporate a few bits of history to back up how you feel and why, but to just toot your own horn for the sake of doing so....AGAIN....is just old and tired. Not to mention pointless.

only a fool like yourself would take a person providing information as tooting your own horn without investigation. a person will only toot their own horn when they know they're right and the person who says another person is tooting their own horn knows they can't combat the information provided for they/you do not want to question as so many blind followers are scared to do, because you just might find something out that you don't want to really know. like Allah is the supreme being.....BLACKMAN!!!

You think power and truth lie in technicalities.

what you call a technicality, i may call being precise. you're to lazy to be presice so you're satisfied with accepting the technicality.

Maybe in your physical realm they actually do, but don't get it twisted, Al-Islam starts with the unseen to make those who want to understand, further see the truth behind what's seen.

yeah, allah is not unseen, he is seen and heard everywhere.

again, according to the sayings of the prophet, the prophet told the people they would be able to see (while still alive in the physical) ALLAH just as clear as they see a full moon during a clear night, or the sun during a clear day.

yeah yeah yeah, keep saying i don't know about islam blah blah blah....

Visionz
04-19-2007, 02:21 PM
no, they didn't lay down anything. i showed the reality of the true meaning, the original meaning, the root of the words islam, muslim, and allah and still you have nothing but guesses to dispute because you rely on religious connotations which the prophet himself wouldn't agree with, which by the way, i again showed how the first muslims, the prophet and his companions understood allah to be man.
there's so many different verses in the Quran that say the exact opposite of what you're sayin here. I'd quote 'em but I'm at work but you've never answered my question, where was the black man when the earth was created?

ALLAHNDRZUWUNIGA
04-19-2007, 06:28 PM
There are verces in the Quran that say, this is insturction and this guidence, and this is a warning for man, and their are others that say, "You are Allah".
It's like in Buhdism where you start out a buddist, but the eventual goal is to reach Nirvana and become a Buddha. So with Islam, Its the way to God.
Samurai7Assassin used to show people that Islam has it's roots in Egyptian, or Kemetic cultures, and Amir Fatir demontrates on his www.amirfatir.tripod.com that Mohamed was a student at GIZA.

Go here:
http://oracle20-20.com/magazine/2007/0107/quran_pt9.php

Then tell me what it says, please.

Visionz
04-19-2007, 08:20 PM
There are verces in the Quran that say, this is insturction and this guidence, and this is a warning for man, and their are others that say, "You are Allah".
It's like in Buhdism where you start out a buddist, but the eventual goal is to reach Nirvana and become a Buddha. So with Islam, Its the way to God.
Samurai7Assassin used to show people that Islam has it's roots in Egyptian, or Kemetic cultures, and Amir Fatir demontrates on his www.amirfatir.tripod.com that Mohamed was a student at GIZA.

Go here:
http://oracle20-20.com/magazine/2007/0107/quran_pt9.php

Then tell me what it says, please.


This is one of the things it said in referring to Quran 51:56
This creator god is therefore a slave master. This is no spirit being. This is a being who walks, had hands and feet, who eats, accepts food offering which sometimes has to be cooked and even demands the first born of animals and humans to be offered up as sacrifices to him. Sometimes they were commanded to give the Lord salt so he could season his food.


The actual verse from the Surah 51:56-57

I have only created Jinns and men that they may serve Me. No Sustenance do I require of them nor do I require that they should feed Me.


What he claims the verse to mean is exposed as a falsehood in the very following verse.

diggy
04-20-2007, 12:59 AM
Some so-called "muslims" are not real muslims by definition, they are hypocrites.


Some verses from the Quran which are broken by "muslims" are:


:clap: Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:75)...


*; }:T No one is allowed to be killed or stoned for adultery (24:2)...





:spin: In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful (5:48-49, 7:31-32, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...




:'( In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...


:)9:( In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensive (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standard.




:learning: In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...




:cop: }:T In Islam, absolute Freedom of Religion is allowed (2:256, 40; 109; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...




*; In Islam, Monogamy is the only allowed form of marriage/relationship (4:20), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (prostitution)...

ALLAHNDRZUWUNIGA
04-20-2007, 10:13 AM
You are right. There are a lot of things that dont make sence in that.

Hellspawn
04-20-2007, 10:29 AM
yup i'm cutting and pasting so what! you still are unable to prove the cut and past method in error.



it must matter to you because you respond to it.



who are you in the islamic world? nobody important. you have no authority, you are not an islamic scholar...all you can do is belief, accept things without actually knowing. this is know the ledge which comes from the word knowledge which means to know.



that's why you should stop guessing because you're doing a piss poor job of it.



no, they didn't lay down anything. i showed the reality of the true meaning, the original meaning, the root of the words islam, muslim, and allah and still you have nothing but guesses to dispute because you rely on religious connotations which the prophet himself wouldn't agree with, which by the way, i again showed how the first muslims, the prophet and his companions understood allah to be man.



yeah i do know that and when the prophet used the words muslim, islam, and allah, he didn't utilize the definitions that are used by these johnny come lately muslims in this day and time.

just like the early christian church was tampered with and the teachings changed, the same holds true with al'islam.



again, you're straying away again. why are you bringing up english when it's so-called arabic words that are in question? you don't want to study the etymology of these words you want to accept on face value the connotation of these words.



that's what you practice right? his-lam. if the muslim world got it so right and it's so holy (not diluted, mixed, or tampered with) why are there so many sects to that "one" religion?



only a fool like yourself would take a person providing information as tooting your own horn without investigation. a person will only toot their own horn when they know they're right and the person who says another person is tooting their own horn knows they can't combat the information provided for they/you do not want to question as so many blind followers are scared to do, because you just might find something out that you don't want to really know. like Allah is the supreme being.....BLACKMAN!!!



what you call a technicality, i may call being precise. you're to lazy to be presice so you're satisfied with accepting the technicality.



yeah, allah is not unseen, he is seen and heard everywhere.

again, according to the sayings of the prophet, the prophet told the people they would be able to see (while still alive in the physical) ALLAH just as clear as they see a full moon during a clear night, or the sun during a clear day.

yeah yeah yeah, keep saying i don't know about islam blah blah blah....


OH man you're at it again? just drop it, you aint convincin/foolin anyone :nonono:

Urban_Journalz
04-20-2007, 04:38 PM
OH man you're at it again? just drop it, you aint convincin/foolin anyone :nonono:

HELLSPAWN IN '08 YOU MOTHERBEECHES!!!!!!!!

ALLAHNDRZUWUNIGA
04-23-2007, 03:50 PM
Mohammed, The Man and His Faith

By Tor Andrea

Clear some things up:

Page16.

So the ancient paganism of Arabia may in general be regarded as an undeveloped polythesim, in which a development had just barely begun which would have gradually produced a pantheon consisting of a hieracrhy of gods, formed by association togeather a number of indempended individual divninites. Nevertheless, some of these divinities stand out above the multitude of of local dieties, and reveal a more definite personal nature and a uniquely dfined function. This is tru first of all , of the threee goddeses of Mecca: Manat, Allat, and Al 'Uzza. Their cult was of the greatest antiquity...

Page 19.

Ibn Sa'd, an historian of the eigth century, relate that at the time when Mhammed permitted some of the faithrull to migrate to Abyssinsia, to escape the persecuton which threatened him and his folowers, he strongly desired not the recieve any revalations tha t might estragne his coutrymen. He was anxious to win them, and he did succeed in in reaching an understnding with them.. One day he was reading togeather with them at the Kaba, reading theme Sura 53: "By the Star when it setteth.' When he came to the pasage: 'Do ye behold Allat and Al 'Uzza , and also Mannat, the third Idol?'- which now concludes: ' What ? Sshall ye have male progeny and Allah female? This were indeed an unfair prtition!'- Satan suggested two lines to him: 'These are the exalted femailes, and truly their intercecession may be expected' Mohammed the re-read the whole Sura, and at its conculion he protrated himself and prayed, and the whole tribe of Quraish did the same. His bitter ememy, the old Walid ibn Al-Magira, who acould not bow down, took earth instead and sprinkeld it upon his head; 'We know that Allah Killeth and giveth life, createth and preserveth, but these our godessess pray to Him for us, and since you have now permitted them to share divine honours iwht HIm, whe tehrefore desier to unite with you.' The Prophet was disturbed by their words and all day he meditated a lone in his house. That evenening the angel Gabriel came to him, and the Prophet recited the Sura to him. When he came to the words sugested by Satan, the angesl asked: 'Have I tought you these two lines?' Mohamamed then realized his ereor, and said: 'I have atrtibuted to Allah wodrs which he did not reveal.'

Page. 25.

The question has been asked: How could a religion such as the ancient Arabian , which was otherwize so inadequate an dunder-developed, attain in so lofty a conception of God as is expresed in belief in the belif in Alllah? Well hausen in his day tried to explain that a being an efect of the language over thought. Allah is a contadiction of al-ilah(italics); and the name denotes simply "the God." Every tribe called his local divinity by this name. Being the only god worshiped by the members of the tribe, he did not need to be called by his name, if he possesed one. And since every tribe spoke of 'the God', and ment hterby its own tibal god, this linguistic form eventually paved the way for the belief in a supreem God commaon to all the tribes.

Ultimate Fist
04-23-2007, 09:28 PM
Some so-called "muslims" are not real muslims by definition, they are hypocrites.


Some verses from the Quran which are broken by "muslims" are:


:clap: Thieves do not have their hands cut-off, but are made to work until they return that which is stolen (12:75)...


*; }:T No one is allowed to be killed or stoned for adultery (24:2)...





:spin: In Islam, music, statues, gold and silk are all Lawful (5:48-49, 7:31-32, 16:116), Vs. Sunni beliefs forbidding silk & gold for men, and forbidding music & statues for all...




:'( In Islam, males and females are not required to be Circumcised (32:7), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings requiring all males to be circumcised and females in some cases...


:)9:( In Islam, War can only be declared in cases of self-defence - no offensive (2:190), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings allowing raids and attacks on any people who are considered non-Muslim by their standard.




:learning: In Islam, people are acknowledged as being diverse and each is to be respected for his/her level of spiritual growth. A Submitter ‘Muslim’ must work to attain the status of Faithful ‘Mumin’ (49:14), Vs. Sunni and Shia teachings that all followers of their religion must think, act, and even look the same (cult syndrome)...




:cop: }:T In Islam, absolute Freedom of Religion is allowed (2:256, 40; 109; 18:29; 88:21-22), Vs. Sunni and Shia requiring apostates to be killed and rejecting the practice of other faiths...




*; In Islam, Monogamy is the only allowed form of marriage/relationship (4:20), Vs. Sunnis where a man may be a polygamist simply if he can afford to, and Shia which allow sex for pleasure (prostitution)...

I didn't know we had Submitters on the board. What's up? Rashad Khalifa used to live in my town. Big Submitter population.

diggy
04-24-2007, 12:01 AM
I'm not a follower of Rashad. I take truth from wherever it is. The fact is, some so-called "muslims" follow weak hadith over the Quran which is pure.

Salaat as a physical prayer cannot be justified in Quran because the physical movements are not explained in the Quran. Allah also says the Quran is complete. Now if Quran is complete, and it does not have explanation of how to do salaat as a physical prayer, then your "salaat" is not ordaned by Allah. It is ordained by hearsayers.

Hadith means story or narration. That's basically what it is. It is a bunch of stories pased on to succeeding generations (starting about 250 yrs after Muhammads death PBUH).

A scientist did a study a few yrs ago. on peeps memories. In this study, he told people a statement. The people were then asked individually to recall the statement. They all told the statement back to the experimenter and it was faulty because their memories were faulty.

Hadith are a bunch of statements. If the people in the study could not remember the exact words of a statement over a period of minutes, how can numerous people remember with accuracy so-called statements from a Prophet over a period of 250 yrs?

And why would u follow such statements? Are those statements divine like the Quran? How can those hadiths be divine like Quran when they are divided into categories of strong hadith, weak hadith with poor narration, and hadith with no narrators?

The Quran is the only thing prophet Muhammad PBUH brought. After he brought forth Quran he died, cuz his mission was complete.

Hadith came after about 250 yrs after Prophets' death. Muhammad did not bring it others did. So do you follow the last Prophet or hearsayers who claim the prophet said things 250 yrs after his death?

WARPATH
04-24-2007, 05:51 PM
It's not an implication. You make it seem as if I said what I said for no reason at all, in fact, you wouldn't have anything to say regarding it, if you hadn't just decided to keep some shit stirred up and remind me of what I said, all the while leaving out (unless you typed it in invisible font) what brought on my response to begin with. Again, it's an observation. You deliberately made it seem like all I do is attack people with no foundation to do so, don't make me go back and repost what you typed to further make my point. If all you're gonna do is sling mud, I'm just gonna ignore you because you're obviously bored and in despereate need for another go 'round.

I was just making an observation.O:|

Urban_Journalz
04-25-2007, 10:57 PM
I'm not a follower of Rashad. I take truth from wherever it is. The fact is, some so-called "muslims" follow weak hadith over the Quran which is pure.

Salaat as a physical prayer cannot be justified in Quran because the physical movements are not explained in the Quran. Allah also says the Quran is complete. Now if Quran is complete, and it does not have explanation of how to do salaat as a physical prayer, then your "salaat" is not ordaned by Allah. It is ordained by hearsayers.

Hadith means story or narration. That's basically what it is. It is a bunch of stories pased on to succeeding generations (starting about 250 yrs after Muhammads death PBUH).

A scientist did a study a few yrs ago. on peeps memories. In this study, he told people a statement. The people were then asked individually to recall the statement. They all told the statement back to the experimenter and it was faulty because their memories were faulty.

Hadith are a bunch of statements. If the people in the study could not remember the exact words of a statement over a period of minutes, how can numerous people remember with accuracy so-called statements from a Prophet over a period of 250 yrs?

And why would u follow such statements? Are those statements divine like the Quran? How can those hadiths be divine like Quran when they are divided into categories of strong hadith, weak hadith with poor narration, and hadith with no narrators?

The Quran is the only thing prophet Muhammad PBUH brought. After he brought forth Quran he died, cuz his mission was complete.

Hadith came after about 250 yrs after Prophets' death. Muhammad did not bring it others did. So do you follow the last Prophet or hearsayers who claim the prophet said things 250 yrs after his death?

The generation of people who lived during the time of Muhammad (PBUH) and the two generations after those, are known as "The Best of Generations", therefore, the bulk of hadiths related in the Sunnah are trustworthy to those who have faith. The Salat is described in The Qur'an, but it's described further and in greater detail in The Sunnah. Don't think the Sunnah is "just a bunch of stories" because it's much, much more. The fact that other people recorded them, doesn't automatically make teh irrelevant. I've seem some questionable ones and those I properly discard, about 98% of the Sunnah is easily related to true Islam though. All that stuff about music being a bad thing is madness and a few other 'weak hadiths' have been spotted by the Islamic Schools of Thought.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the best example of a Muslim that we have and it makes perfect sense for him (pbuh) to tell us to follow his example, a lot of which is laid down in The Sunnah, along with The Qur'an. Some Muslims don't follow the Sunnah, and that's entirely on them. Personally, I'd rather incorporate everything with the sheer intention of doing the right thing, so even if it wasn't what I was supposed to do, I still get an "A" for effort. Disputation over the fact that someone else wrote it, to me, is just a waste of time, time that we don't have, and that's passing faster than it used to.

I follow The Sunnah because a lot of it makes sense to me. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), through Allah and Gabriel (upon whom be peace), brought The Qur'an unto mankind, but his (pbuh) example is still just as important. Aisha (upon whom be peace) said that, "In watching Muhammad (PBUH), you can see The Qur'an in it's full performance." There's more than stories in there, there are prophecies, vivid descriptions that aren't in The Qur'an, but that build on what we've read in there and also priceless lessons.

diggy
04-26-2007, 12:45 AM
Have you read "The Arab Conspiracy Against Islam"?

If you have, and you should if you are seeking the truth, you would know that the arabs have deliberately mistranslated many words and their meanings in the Quran. They did this out of arrogance ( in my opinion) of being the people who have received "the book" and to finance Saudi Arabia with yearly Hajj money from those who perform it. I strongly suggest the book.

Do the knowledge from the book and compare certain verses from the Quran that uses the same words, but are translated differently according to the translater's preference - to mislead people.

Examples:

Yu-Sol-lee Twice In Chapter 3 Verse 39 and Chapter 33 Verse 43


(a) In Chapter 33 Verse 43 it is translated as God and the Angels ‘Blessed’ the believers. NOT ‘Ritual Prayers’.


(b) But in Chapter 3 Verse 39 it is translated as Zachariah was doing the ‘Ritual Prayers’


Sol-luu Once In Chapter 33 Verse 56 it is translated as the people must sol-luu or Honor the prophet. NOT ‘Ritual Prayer’.


Yu-Sol-lu Thrice In Chapter 4 Verse 102 (2 times)& Once in Chapter 33 Verse 56).


(a) In Chapter 33 Verse 56 it is translated God and the angels ‘Blessed’ the prophet for the word ‘Yu-sol-lu’.


(b) But in Chapter 4 Verse 102 the same word is translated as ‘Ritual Prayers’ (yusollu) on both counts.

These are just a few examples.

Some more are:

Why are the same words Solaa-waa-tee in the Chapter 2 Verse238 (guard your ‘solaa-waatee’) and Chapter 9 Verse 99 (the messenger’s solaa-waatee) understood differently?

Why are the same words Solaa-waa-tun in the Chapter 2 Verse157 (ulaa ika alaihim sola-waatun) and Chapter 22 Verse 40 (wa solaa-waatun, wa masaajidu) translated with different meanings?

These examples I gave are copies from the book I've pasted. I strongly suggest you open up Quran and realize the translators mistranslated certain words and concepts to perpetrate a lie.

And as we know the ones who lie about god are the worst.


If you haven't read the book, I could start a thread and copy and paste the book in there. It is long. So then you could copy and paste it to a word document and save it on your computer.

Hellspawn
04-26-2007, 03:56 AM
^^thats why you better learn arabic and read the book in his original form.

SID
04-26-2007, 06:30 AM
exactly the english versions of the holy quar,an should not be even classed as the the qu,ran the meaning is totally different, learn arabic if you want to study the book

Golden_Armz
04-26-2007, 09:51 AM
The generation of people who lived during the time of Muhammad (PBUH) and the two generations after those, are known as "The Best of Generations", therefore, the bulk of hadiths related in the Sunnah are trustworthy to those who have faith. The Salat is described in The Qur'an, but it's described further and in greater detail in The Sunnah. Don't think the Sunnah is "just a bunch of stories" because it's much, much more. The fact that other people recorded them, doesn't automatically make teh irrelevant. I've seem some questionable ones and those I properly discard, about 98% of the Sunnah is easily related to true Islam though. All that stuff about music being a bad thing is madness and a few other 'weak hadiths' have been spotted by the Islamic Schools of Thought.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the best example of a Muslim that we have and it makes perfect sense for him (pbuh) to tell us to follow his example, a lot of which is laid down in The Sunnah, along with The Qur'an. Some Muslims don't follow the Sunnah, and that's entirely on them. Personally, I'd rather incorporate everything with the sheer intention of doing the right thing, so even if it wasn't what I was supposed to do, I still get an "A" for effort. Disputation over the fact that someone else wrote it, to me, is just a waste of time, time that we don't have, and that's passing faster than it used to.

I follow The Sunnah because a lot of it makes sense to me. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), through Allah and Gabriel (upon whom be peace), brought The Qur'an unto mankind, but his (pbuh) example is still just as important. Aisha (upon whom be peace) said that, "In watching Muhammad (PBUH), you can see The Qur'an in it's full performance." There's more than stories in there, there are prophecies, vivid descriptions that aren't in The Qur'an, but that build on what we've read in there and also priceless lessons.

WORD...

also theres a difference between Sunnah and Hadith, and that is that, the Sunnah is the actions of Muhammad (saws) and the Hadith are narrations about these actions.

wasalaam

Urban_Journalz
04-26-2007, 02:06 PM
WORD...

also theres a difference between Sunnah and Hadith, and that is that, the Sunnah is the actions of Muhammad (saws) and the Hadith are narrations about these actions.

wasalaam

No doubt. Ma As Sallama

diggy
04-26-2007, 11:27 PM
^^thats why you better learn arabic and read the book in his original form.

Whether I'm reading Quran in english mistranslations or not does not matter when Imams and so-called "muslims" are all teaching mistranslated lessons to others. If you ask any "muslim" about islam they say the same misconscrued interpretations of it just like Yusef Ali and others.

My weakness is not the lack of knowing arabic cuz just like a person is not familiar with a word in a sentence, they can still find out that meaning by comparing/contrasting how that word is used in other sentences. The Quran is full of verses (sentences) that use some words over again in different contexts. It is then possible to do logical deductions with those verses that use the same word in question and finding the meaning of it by the way it is translated.

Learning arabic does not necessarily mean I will understand Quran. Have you forgotten that in the Quran itself, Allah labels some of the arabs (who understand and speak arabic) as rejecters, as deaf, dumb and blind, the staunchest in unbelief even though the message was delivered in their mother tongue?

Therefore, beleif is not based on understanding language, because somewhere in Quran it is stated that Allah may cause the word to be known to people who will beleive in it more than the arabs and who will be beloved by Allah ( just a paraphrase of a verse from Quran that I read long time ago).

Hellspawn
04-27-2007, 03:54 AM
Whether I'm reading Quran in english mistranslations or not does not matter when Imams and so-called "muslims" are all teaching mistranslated lessons to others. If you ask any "muslim" about islam they say the same misconscrued interpretations of it just like Yusef Ali and others.

My weakness is not the lack of knowing arabic cuz just like a person is not familiar with a word in a sentence, they can still find out that meaning by comparing/contrasting how that word is used in other sentences. The Quran is full of verses (sentences) that use some words over again in different contexts. It is then possible to do logical deductions with those verses that use the same word in question and finding the meaning of it by the way it is translated.

Learning arabic does not necessarily mean I will understand Quran. Have you forgotten that in the Quran itself, Allah labels some of the arabs (who understand and speak arabic) as rejecters, as deaf, dumb and blind, the staunchest in unbelief even though the message was delivered in their mother tongue?

Therefore, beleif is not based on understanding language, because somewhere in Quran it is stated that Allah may cause the word to be known to people who will beleive in it more than the arabs and who will be beloved by Allah ( just a paraphrase of a verse from Quran that I read long time ago).

1-look, i wasnt tryin to offend you by sayin this but SOME of the words you tried to explain the meanings of are plain clair in arabic, i mean it couldnt be that or that meanning, feel me?

2-but i'm not against the whole concept of tryin to understand and explain some words but when you go so much into logic, you have a big chance to go wrong because the book is not supposed to be explained fully, some ideas/concept are from El Ghaib (unseen/understandable only by god).

3-and of course some arabs are deaf dumb and blind (like with every religion) but i'll add more than that; especially the arabs are deaf dumb and blind, i mean alot of them and it's the fact that the Quran is written in arabic that they understand it the way they want therefore they legitimate their wrong actions.

Black Man
04-27-2007, 09:18 AM
1-look, i wasnt tryin to offend you by sayin this but SOME of the words you tried to explain the meanings of are plain clair in arabic, i mean it couldnt be that or that meanning, feel me?

2-but i'm not against the whole concept of tryin to understand and explain some words but when you go so much into logic, you have a big chance to go wrong because the book is not supposed to be explained fully, some ideas/concept are from El Ghaib (unseen/understandable only by god).

3-and of course some arabs are deaf dumb and blind (like with every religion) but i'll add more than that; especially the arabs are deaf dumb and blind, i mean alot of them and it's the fact that the Quran is written in arabic that they understand it the way they want therefore they legitimate their wrong actions.

who are you to say anybody is dumb deaf and blind? especially when you express the characteristics of a person who is blind deaf and dumb yourself.

Al-Ghaib does not mean "unseen" in arabic. The Muslim writers of today deceptively translate that word as "Unseen." However, the word does not mean "unseen" in Arabic. It means "absent" or "to withdraw ones presence from." Allah is not here described by the Qur'an as an invisible bieng, but as one who has made Himself absent until the Day of Judgment at which time He will make His presence known again. This is why the faithful have to wait until that Day before they could "see their Lord." If you weren't blind deaf and dumb you would easily and clearly see this.

Hellspawn
04-27-2007, 10:23 AM
who are you to say anybody is dumb deaf and blind? especially when you express the characteristics of a person who is blind deaf and dumb yourself.

Al-Ghaib does not mean "unseen" in arabic. The Muslim writers of today deceptively translate that word as "Unseen." However, the word does not mean "unseen" in Arabic. It means "absent" or "to withdraw ones presence from." Allah is not here described by the Qur'an as an invisible bieng, but as one who has made Himself absent until the Day of Judgment at which time He will make His presence known again. This is why the faithful have to wait until that Day before they could "see their Lord." If you weren't blind deaf and dumb you would easily and clearly see this.

Do I spoke to you?

1-I said DDB quoting the word Diggy used in his sentence.
2-Ghaib means unseen and Gha-Eb means absent...I already spoke about tryin to explain arabic words, dont try! + you already copy/pasted this before I already read it.

Black Man
04-27-2007, 11:04 AM
Do I spoke to you?

1-I said DDB quoting the word Diggy used in his sentence.
2-Ghaib means unseen and Gha-Eb means absent...I already spoke about tryin to explain arabic words, dont try! + you already copy/pasted this before I already read it.

Errrrr wrong again.....stop trying dude, you're a blind follower....blind deaf and dumb. that's all you can say, you copy/pasted this....blah blah blah, well my copy and paste is still right, your shit is shit and that shit is the wrong shit to be messin' wit....

Hellspawn
04-27-2007, 11:15 AM
Errrrr wrong again.....stop trying dude, you're a blind follower....blind deaf and dumb. that's all you can say, you copy/pasted this....blah blah blah, well my copy and paste is still right, your shit is shit and that shit is the wrong shit to be messin' wit....

:nonono: :fucku:

Black Man
04-27-2007, 12:35 PM
:nonono: :fucku:

i hurt your feelings....awwwww....let's have a pity party.....:fucku: i can do it too....i didn't think "muslims" responded with such obsene jesters...

Urban_Journalz
04-27-2007, 01:37 PM
i hurt your feelings....awwwww....let's have a pity party.....:fucku: i can do it too....i didn't think "muslims" responded with such obsene jesters...

Then clearly, again you prove that you're not as familiar with Islam as you claim to be. The Qur'an not only tells us to fight against those who fight against us, but also, that foul language is permissable if it's justified. In this case, your never-ending pseudo-philosophical madness is the calling card for not just the bird, but an entire flock.

On that note.....:fucku:

Black Man
04-27-2007, 01:56 PM
Then clearly, again you prove that you're not as familiar with Islam as you claim to be. The Qur'an not only tells us to fight against those who fight against us, but also, that foul language is permissable if it's justified. In this case, your never-ending pseudo-philosophical madness is the calling card for not just the bird, but an entire flock.

On that note.....:fucku:

awwwwww....i hurt your feelings too? you need a pity party too. ok. awwwwwww....feel better now? oh yeah, :fucku:

Is Allah the Supreme Being BLACKMAN? :yes:

...you pseudo-religous bullshit that you call islam....come on now, you're a christian who refers to god as allah with no knowledge of allah!

Urban_Journalz
04-27-2007, 02:53 PM
^^^ :lmao: looks like you're the one with the hurt feelin's jack. You know what you say is fresh bullshit and the problem is, you don't know how to deal with being wrong. So go try your awful attempts at reverse psychology elsewhere and before you do, practice.

SID
04-27-2007, 03:20 PM
white man is fuckin hilarious...he keeps gettin intellectualy sonned and keeps comin back!

Black Man
04-27-2007, 04:59 PM
white man is fuckin hilarious...he keeps gettin intellectualy sonned and keeps comin back!

Allah, is that what it is? :nonono:

How come all these people who claim to be muslim speak for who they worship? Is it because there idol i mean god has no power? :mmmyah:

Urban_Journalz
04-27-2007, 08:46 PM
white man is fuckin hilarious...he keeps gettin intellectualy sonned and keeps comin back!

:lmao:

Thus pride cometh before his fall. It's funny to see the kind of 5th grade insults he comes up with as his last line of defence. I have to apologize for giving that moron a new toy to play with when I called him out on his copyin' and pastin' fit, because he's claimin' everyone else is doin' it now, but we can tell who does it more often. :mmmyah:

diggy
04-28-2007, 12:02 AM
Urban, I was writing to you in this thread, but you seem to not be replying to my words. What's wrong? Did I say something that bothered you. You seem to be engaged in a verbal battle with Black Man instead!

Urban_Journalz
04-28-2007, 12:38 PM
Urban, I was writing to you in this thread, but you seem to not be replying to my words. What's wrong? Did I say something that bothered you. You seem to be engaged in a verbal battle with Black Man instead!

My apologies. Truth be told, I just skimmed through after not being in the forum for a while. What page is your post on, I'm feelin' lazy.

SID
04-28-2007, 02:13 PM
so from this thread i can tell...a few katz have mixed fellins abot islam..and the qu, ran but thats all good....hopefully if you are intrested you will learn more


SALAM

Imperial1
04-28-2007, 08:51 PM
who are you to say anybody is dumb deaf and blind? especially when you express the characteristics of a person who is blind deaf and dumb yourself.

Al-Ghaib does not mean "unseen" in arabic. The Muslim writers of today deceptively translate that word as "Unseen." However, the word does not mean "unseen" in Arabic. It means "absent" or "to withdraw ones presence from." Allah is not here described by the Qur'an as an invisible bieng, but as one who has made Himself absent until the Day of Judgment at which time He will make His presence known again. This is why the faithful have to wait until that Day before they could "see their Lord." If you weren't blind deaf and dumb you would easily and clearly see this.

How are you going to tell him what an arabic word means when he proved that you didn't know arabic when you couldn't translate the sentence he wrote in the language? http://www.pledgepark.com/images/smilies/whistling.gif

Imperial1

Black Man
04-30-2007, 10:43 AM
How are you going to tell him what an arabic word means when he proved that you didn't know arabic when you couldn't translate the sentence he wrote in the language? http://www.pledgepark.com/images/smilies/whistling.gif

Imperial1

reading arabic and speaking it is two different things. you can speak it without writing it....and he is not the author of the language nor a master of it.

Hellspawn
04-30-2007, 10:47 AM
reading arabic and speaking it is two different things. you can speak it without writing it....and he is not the author of the language nor a master of it.

:lmao: -dead-

Imperial1
04-30-2007, 12:40 PM
reading arabic and speaking it is two different things. you can speak it without writing it....and he is not the author of the language nor a master of it.

Excuses are tools for the incompetent.

That is all.

Imperial1

SID
04-30-2007, 12:48 PM
i like that sayin g...very true

Black Man
04-30-2007, 12:51 PM
excuse, not an excuse but whats real. reading a language and speaking it two different things. never said i read the language, but i can speak it.

SID
04-30-2007, 01:02 PM
you can speak arabic? where are you from? and who taught you?

Hellspawn
04-30-2007, 02:55 PM
excuse, not an excuse but whats real. reading a language and speaking it two different things. never said i read the language, but i can speak it.

yeah, of course :cool:

Imperial1
04-30-2007, 07:01 PM
excuse, not an excuse but whats real. reading a language and speaking it two different things. never said i read the language, but i can speak it.

Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard

Imperial1