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blackwisdom
08-16-2007, 10:28 AM
Before I get to the contents of this post I'd like to explain why I posted it here. This is a very critical issue. So-called leaders aren't connected to our (Hip Hop) true culture and lifestyle. This is a real issue, not just a trivial matter. D. Banner is on some real stuff. I want to get some real replies and not just jokes. That's why I posted it here.

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DAVID BANNER CLARIFIES CONTEXT OF SHARPTON RANT: Rapper’s camp releases statement and lengthy open letter.
(August 16, 2007)Email to a friend | Print Friendly *David Banner’s camp has released a statement regarding the public feud between the rapper and Rev. Al Sharpton over the activist’s attempt to clean up rap lyrics.


The statement, e-mailed to EUR yesterday, backtracks on the recent profanity-laced comments Banner made toward Sharpton, saying they were from a “conversation on a DJ conference call,” and not “from a formal interview. …The manner in which it was delivered was not how he would respond in an interview.”


Among other choice words, Banner was quoted on rap site SOHH.com as saying: "The next time you see Al Sharpton, tell him I said f*ck him and he can suck my d*ck. I might change the name of my album from ‘The Greatest Story Never Told’ to ‘F*ck Al Sharpton.’”

Kirsten John-Foy from Sharpton’s National Action Network responded with a statement that referred to Banner by his real name, Levell Crump. It read, in part:


“In keeping with the National Action Network’s Decency Initiative, I am sure Rev. Sharpton would not call Crump the ‘N’ ‘B’ or ‘H’ word. And, despite Crump’s personal request, I am sure Reverend Sharpton would not call him a f-g--t. He would just pray for him. We at NAN are pro civil rights for everyone, even Levell Crump who has not had a banner year since his debut album in 2003.”


The response from Banner’s camp included an open letter from the rapper that is said to have been written before his public comments about Sharpton, yet not released until now.


“Banner’s true feelings and points that he desires to get across can be found in the letter,” the statement explains.

Here it is in its entirety:


Wrote A Letter To The Government The Other Day!

Stop Attacking The Kids


To all the black ‘so called leaders’. Al, Oprah, Jesse, etc, etc, etc… I’m saddened by your current direction and current ‘pet projects’ you guys have taken under your wing at the expense of Young Black America. As an urban professional living in this crazy world, I dare ask, who are you leading? I listen to what you say, I hear you complain about the youth, and about the direction of our lives, the kids, and where Black America is going and yet I still ask – who are you guys leading? And most importantly, where are we going? Do we know the goal we are trying to reach before we get there? Have we identified our end before articulating our means to an end! Who are you REALLY reaching? Why do you feel the need to attack the young generation for the things we are doing? "WHO DID WE LEARN THESE THINGS FROM? We are trying to have fun in the midst of our traumatic circumstances. People are trying to make a living by any means necessary, people are voicing their experiences, people are speaking the truth about situations and honestly the truth hurts and sometimes it’s ugly. If music/hip hop/ rappers are wrong with the language they use, the images they portray in their videos – then come talk to us – I use the term ‘us’ as a collective because I’m defending what I have a passion for so this also involves me. Pull us to the side and say “hey kids, that’s not the way to go” and then we can say “change what we see daily so we cansing and rap about the roses and not about the bullets”. We will say, help give us better situations to create better verbal material”. Don’t just go running off to the media to air the dirty laundry of the family and not expect us to fight back in some kind of way. What you are doing is wrong and it’s pissing off a lot of people with less money and camera

time! Young Black America’s problem is not Hip Hop or the music, Young Black America’s problem is Old White America. In the young black community, there is a growing level of resentment toward the ‘so called leaders’ because you guys DON’T WANT TO REALLY FIX OUR PROBLEMS. You guys don’t really want to be on our side fighting for better school systems, more after school programs, more money for college funding! Where areyou leaders at when there’s a need to break down to freshman in college on how not to get caught up with credit cards by singing up for an MBNA card, with high interest rates that eventually screw up your credit and makes it that much harder for you to become a homeowner after you graduate college pending you can find a job in your field after you’ve spent all this money in student loans! Where are those seminars? Dubois had it right when he spoke of the Talented Tenth! Rally around us to help teach us about THIS life! It’s not our fault that the world is messed up and filled with debauchery. It’s not our fault that our communities are screwed! The problems in our community should not fall on our lap. And if you begin to hold us accountable for simply our words – then I will begin to hold you accountable for your actions; or lack there of. Right is right and wrong is wrong. You as our leaders should have taken a better approach to gaining the attention of those that you are dissatisfied with and had a conversation with them. You don’t scold your child in public without fair warning!


Al Sharpton: You run around towns and cities speaking words of wanting to better our community by cleaning up the airwaves. You hold rallies in front of radio stations saying turn off the music and clean the airwaves. You want to shut down local stations that are playing urban music when most of these local stations house and employ the same people in your community – the black community. When you visit any station in any city (big or small) playing urban/rap music, the staff is generally black. Now if those stations were to ever shut down – where do those employees go? Al, if you are for the people, where was your rally when the 3 college students were executed in New Jersey by black men. Where is the rally atfor those families and that neighborhood??? I don’t see you out there asking for justice yet that incident happened in a black community. If someone was to rap about “how f**** up black on black crime is and how even if you go to college you aren’t safe on the streets and nigga’s aint’ s---” – that kind of tone is offensive to you and you want to stop that! If that’s the truth, then why are you censoring it? No, you need to stop the crime before it happens so that there is no gangster song about a gangster situation.


Oprah: You recently you held a town hall meeting dedicating 2 days of talk to have an open forum about the “Nappy Headed Ho” comment from Imus. Everyone had their 2cents to say and yet the people that needed to REALLY be there were not at all on your panel of ‘experts’. The questions all were about “why use the word ho or b**** or nigga etc” yet the rappers in question ala Nelly, Snoop, Ludacris weren’t anywhere present on your panel. In my eyes you had all the wrong people on there representing and speaking on behalf of other people. Common is great but he’s not gangsta. If you had a problem with the true content of rap songs then where were those that do that kind of rap

100%? You want to talk about change, and about having us not call women in rap songs “bitches” and “hoes” but one thing I noted, you had all men on your panel of executives. Russell is wonderful but he’s not the Zenith when it comes to new school rappers or their new school mentality. Kevin Liles is great but what happened to Sylvia Rhone the head of the label that Nelly is signed to, or Kathy Hughes the head of Radio One or Deborah Lee the head of BET. If the problem really was about women and the “bitch, ho” term being used, where were those ladies to speak on their stance on this issue! They are the ones with the ultimate say pulling all the strings and yet they weren’t dully noted as absent from your panel! Oprah you are suppose to protect us, I can find more harm being done to the black community by the movies and sponsors you promote than any rap song.


Just like your son or daughter, niece or nephew… rappers are just kids growing into their own. They aren’t always right, but they aren’t always wrong either. If our path is misguided, then help us get back on the right road. I’m young, I’m black, and I’m a hard worker. I’m from the hood where mother’s leave their kids in the hands of strangers and never look back, I’ve been with killers, dope dealers, b******, church folk, grandparents, bad parenting from good parents, pushers, junkies, robbers, middleclass workers, but that’s the life I’vebeen around. Gunshots and church hymns usually go hand in hand in most neighborhoods. The grim reality for a lot of kids out there living alone is that life is harsh and cold; kids grow up faster than they want to because they are forced too! Kids are growing up in situations that are f***** up. So the songs we listen to mirror the things we see, the things we dream about and the fantasies we have! Don’t change the songs I listen to, change the circumstance from which it comes from---then the situation will be better!


Growing up in this world of hip hop it’s disheartening to see our ‘so called leaders’ leave us out to dry. Fine you don’t like what we say. Fine disagree with our choice of topics; however, the things we talk about aren’t new. We didn’t invent the term pimps, pushers, hoes, tricks, doobies, nigga’s and gangsta’s. Hip Hop didn’t create that. Those words were left here for us to use by you guys, your generation. This life we are continuing to live was handed to us by the people before us who didn’t do much to clean it up. There may never be a time that we agree on anything, but there is always room for change. As a family – we will agree to disagree but it’s the synergy in which we do it. If you are on one extreme tangent, and I’m on another, we will never meet eye to eye. At the same time, I will not allow you to bash, yell, condemn, and have a condescending tone on my source of refugee and happiness. As you leaders call out the hip hop community saying that we are wrong for what we do and how we do it, I am CALLING EACH OF YOU OUT saying you are wrong for what you are doing to us. How dare you guys not call Nelly, Snoop, Lil Wayne, David Banner, Jim Jones, Akon, Rick Ross, Fabulous, 50 cent, Young Buck, Bun B, Too Short and say lets talk this through. Do you even know who ANY of these people are??????? You are so disconnected from us that we don’t even look at you for guidance. If you really want to change something, start by changing your dialogue. Don’t talk at us, talk to us!


-DAVID BANNER

IrOnMaN
08-16-2007, 01:02 PM
:b Cheers to David Banner!:i

I totally agree with everything he said, truly. I wish he would have included Bill Cosby in this letter because most of the statements he says are just out of line. I'm speechless. He spoke for his and my generation in terms of how and why things are the way they are with young blacks. David Banner he smart. Doesn't he have a B.S. in English? I hope his letter gets display in magazines and TV.

Thanks, Blackwisdom. :b

Huggasaurus Sex
08-16-2007, 01:23 PM
yeah i don't think censoring rappers would improve black people's situation. but unfortunately, i don't think anything will...

WARPATH
08-16-2007, 01:30 PM
yeah i don't think censoring rappers would improve black people's situation. but unfortunately, i don't think anything will...

Explain.

Huggasaurus Sex
08-16-2007, 03:50 PM
the only populations that were less ravaged by imperialism than blacks were the native americans and australians, and their situation certainly isn't getting any better. and if we look at which populations have been able to rise up and challenge euro-american hegemony it's been asian nations that were able to basically beat the imperialists at their own game. it's just an opinion, but i believe blacks are less inclined to play by those rules. and banner's reaction has kinda confirmed my beliefs.

CharlesJones
08-16-2007, 04:22 PM
Very good topic and i agree with everything David Banner said. What these black leaders need to learn is that before rap music came along, there was crime in the black community. I'm so tired of the older generation of blacks blaming rap music for the ignorance in the ghetto. Crime will always be a problem in the black community because ignorant blacks don't wanna change and be somebody other than a criminal. They don't wanna go to school to educate themselves and read because to them, that's boring. How else are you gonna make it in this fucked up world if you don't read and educate yourself? White rich people definitely aren't gonna give you a job because they don't care about poor ignorant blacks. You have to read and work for what you want because nobody is gonna give you anything and until ignorant blacks realize that, black on black crime will continue to happen. The problem with ignorant blacks is that they have so much self hatred towards themselves and other blacks. I don't know why they're like that but that's how they are. I would like to see rappers rap about education and politics more to educate the black youth because i'm tired of these wack ass topics that rappers are talking about like clubbing, sex, violence, materialism. The black youth look up to these rappers so rappers need to change their topics and talk about what's more important. I do agree like David Banner said that these black leaders/politicians need to talk to these rappers and ask them why they rap about the ignorant stuff they talk about. The reason why Oprah didn't have those rappers on her show that David named is because her show has a majority white female audience and those white people would be scared shitless if those rappers he named came on her show to talk about why they rap about what they rap about LOL.

TSA
08-16-2007, 04:41 PM
"Young Black America’s problem is not Hip Hop or the music, Young Black America’s problem is Old White America."


Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahh !




that's the truest shit since ODB!


I've always liked Banner, he's an intellegent man.



im sick of older black ppl acting like the reason shits bad for blacks is cause 100% of blacks aren't model citizens.


i don't even think 20% of whites are model citizens.


it ain't about "acting right", it's about being a slimy leech, and manipulation. If there was a black group of 100 influential ppl that are secertive and specifically designed to be a black illuminati the problem is solved.

That's why there's a government, not EVERYONE needs to be the brothers keeper, just a small group and willing it suck blood from everyone else.

Asains have done well because the lack of imperialism and a culture that VALUES not fucking up.


White ppl have because of that group that has look out for them (the US gov)

Blacks are doing a lot better but haven't because technically they've been citizens for 40 years and this is the first generation that can have a non janitorial job. AND these mother fuckers are trying to kill us.
AND after filling 21 applications I get 1 call back.

CharlesJones
08-16-2007, 04:50 PM
I agree with you about whites discriminating against blacks on the job. They've been doing that for a long time and they haven't changed. I hate filling out job applications too because it takes them forever to call me and most of the time, they don't call me at all. Like Willie D of the Geto Boys said on If I Was White song, last hired and first fired, that's us LOL. Man i'm sick and tired of these prejudiced bastards LOL. One million niggas in the NFL and not one black owner. Willie D speaking the truth. Ya'll should listen to that song. He speaks the truth about white people. At the end of the song, he talks and he says when a white man goes to court, the jury look at him different because he's a upstanding citizen because of the color of his skin but when they look at a black man, they say he's a slave slave slave nigga nigga nigga hahahahahahahaha.

Huggasaurus Sex
08-16-2007, 05:19 PM
"Young Black America’s problem is not Hip Hop or the music, Young Black America’s problem is Old White America."
i agree

Asains have done well because the lack of imperialism and a culture that VALUES not fucking up.
well asians encountered imperialists as well but by that time they'd already formed empires which were capable of repelling an invasion, and they were able to use trade to their advantage instead of having their resources plundered like in africa and the middle east. also asian nations were able to industrialize quickly because the bureaucratic structures were already firmly in place unlike in sub-saharran africa.

black culture values failure no more than any other culture but it's all in how you define the goals. is the kind of life that white people and asians work for the same kind of life that blacks want? its wars for oil, war on drugs, war on terrorism, the proliferation of corporation-controlled capitalist "democracies," global free trade, etc. all these things are more or less attendant with the greed-fueled lifestyles that whites and asians aspire to, whether they know it or not.

SHEEPISH LORD OF CHAOS
08-16-2007, 09:16 PM
my man david banner talked nothing but motherfucking truth man, truth i was saying the same thing when i watched that fucking town hall meeting lets break it down though we as black people and as hip hoppas we hurt ourselves by not policing ourselves and these people try and do it but they don't know our culture like we know our culture so why aren't we doing something

blackwisdom
08-16-2007, 09:48 PM
the only populations that were less ravaged by imperialism than blacks were the native americans and australians, and their situation certainly isn't getting any better. and if we look at which populations have been able to rise up and challenge euro-american hegemony it's been asian nations that were able to basically beat the imperialists at their own game. it's just an opinion, but i believe blacks are less inclined to play by those rules. and banner's reaction has kinda confirmed my beliefs.You do make a good argument. I say that in order for a people to totally achieve THEIR goals of independence and self reliance that people must control their Land, Culture (History, Science, Arts, etc), and Resources (Economy, revenue flow). Most of the Asian nations that have knocked Europeans off their backs possess these things. Most of the Nations that still suffer from imperialism don't possess these things.

My $.02

blackwisdom
08-16-2007, 09:54 PM
The problem with ignorant blacks is that they have so much self hatred towards themselves and other blacks. I don't know why they're like that but that's how they are.
We're trained to hate ourselves from our nappy heads to our black feet.
The reason why Oprah didn't have those rappers on her show that David named is because her show has a majority white female audience and those white people would be scared shitless if those rappers he named came on her show to talk about why they rap about what they rap about LOL.Good point.

blackwisdom
08-16-2007, 10:01 PM
well asians encountered imperialists as well but by that time they'd already formed empires which were capable of repelling an invasion, and they were able to use trade to their advantage instead of having their resources plundered like in africa and the middle east. also asian nations were able to industrialize quickly because the bureaucratic structures were already firmly in place unlike in sub-saharran africa.

black culture values failure no more than any other culture but it's all in how you define the goals. is the kind of life that white people and asians work for the same kind of life that blacks want? its wars for oil, war on drugs, war on terrorism, the proliferation of corporation-controlled capitalist "democracies," global free trade, etc. all these things are more or less attendant with the greed-fueled lifestyles that whites and asians aspire to, whether they know it or not.I like the way you put this. Great points.

blackwisdom
08-16-2007, 10:10 PM
my man david banner talked nothing but motherfucking truth man, truth i was saying the same thing when i watched that fucking town hall meeting lets break it down though we as black people and as hip hoppas we hurt ourselves by not policing ourselves and these people try and do it but they don't know our culture like we know our culture so why aren't we doing somethingWe lack proper foundation and infrastructure. A lot of our true Hip Hop leaders are marginalized, silenced, bought out, or knocked out. We have some great leaders but unfortunately their voices don't carry as far and as strong (at this time) as we need them to in order to saturate to the point where they will be maximumly effective. This is a very partial reply.

TSA
08-16-2007, 10:15 PM
i agree


well asians encountered imperialists as well but by that time they'd already formed empires which were capable of repelling an invasion, and they were able to use trade to their advantage instead of having their resources plundered like in africa and the middle east. also asian nations were able to industrialize quickly because the bureaucratic structures were already firmly in place unlike in sub-saharran africa.

black culture values failure no more than any other culture but it's all in how you define the goals. is the kind of life that white people and asians work for the same kind of life that blacks want? its wars for oil, war on drugs, war on terrorism, the proliferation of corporation-controlled capitalist "democracies," global free trade, etc. all these things are more or less attendant with the greed-fueled lifestyles that whites and asians aspire to, whether they know it or not.


true true, but there's a comfort with having little in black culture, and im not blaming them, this is the first generation that they've been citizens for, before that it was crazy to think you'll even get paid minimum wage, or at all.

things are getting better for blacks and their achievements will never by highlighted because the general culture is used to them not doing well and associate them with that on some typical blame the victim shit.



Asains that are intouch with their culture do better in school then the ones that are more Americanized. It's a part of their cultural values to do well in school, and that's they're route to success.




another thing is black people are constantly debating their general moral standing in the country but why don't white people? You never see Rush Limbach or whatever talking about curbing racism, the high divorce rates, child/spouse abuse or anything else that goes on with white people, but when a black person fucks up in comes the national debate.

even with this Imus thing, it's now the black rappers that influenced him, cause we all know that faggot has Death Certificate bangin in his tape deck.



and also
The only Asain culture that didn't deal with imperalism in Japan.

Ethiopia was also able to repel invasion.

TSA
08-16-2007, 10:19 PM
We lack proper foundation and infrastructure. A lot of our true Hip Hop leaders are marginalized, silenced, bought out, or knocked out. We have some great leaders but unfortunately their voices don't carry as far and as strong (at this time) as we need them to in order to saturate to the point where they will be maximumly effective. This is a very partial reply.


fuck a voice, build. use your hands, im sick all voices, all these faggots do is talk, buy land, shoot cops back when they shoot at you, protect your own property and your set.

these white ppl are trying to kill you. period.

TSA
08-16-2007, 10:20 PM
I agree with you about whites discriminating against blacks on the job. They've been doing that for a long time and they haven't changed. I hate filling out job applications too because it takes them forever to call me and most of the time, they don't call me at all. Like Willie D of the Geto Boys said on If I Was White song, last hired and first fired, that's us LOL. Man i'm sick and tired of these prejudiced bastards LOL. One million niggas in the NFL and not one black owner. Willie D speaking the truth. Ya'll should listen to that song. He speaks the truth about white people. At the end of the song, he talks and he says when a white man goes to court, the jury look at him different because he's a upstanding citizen because of the color of his skin but when they look at a black man, they say he's a slave slave slave nigga nigga nigga hahahahahahahaha.


its the truth i don't look at anyone that sells crack as dumb anymore, they ain't trying to hire us, it's not our country, might as well make some fuckin money off it, shit.

fuck if it's illegal, Us voting was illegal.

blackwisdom
08-16-2007, 10:29 PM
fuck a voice, build. use your hands, im sick all voices, all these faggots do is talk, buy land, shoot cops back when they shoot at you, protect your own property and your set.

these white ppl are trying to kill you. period.True but we have a long way to go before we can pull a "Spook That Sat By The Door."

Huggasaurus Sex
08-17-2007, 12:21 AM
i agree with you, shaolin, that blacks have come a long way in terms of the opportunities available to the average black man today versus 30 years ago. but the civil rights movement has essentially been a periodic renegotiating of the terms of enslavement and there is a limit to how much can be accomplished with such a strategy. not because white people are out there actively "trying to kill you," but because in order to get employed and move up the social ladder through the standard means, black people have to conform to white culture or live a dual reality to some degree: white in the workplace and black in the hood.

honestly i believe it's a lose-lose situation for blacks. conform your view of success to align with those of white people and slowly but surely black culture is replaced by at best a watered down version of the original culture. see the current state of hip-hop music for a taste of that trend. that interview with 50 cent (the one where yayo claims superb wrote SC) is a great example of what i'm talking about. 50 basically dismissed the idea of music having any artistic merit and stated plainly that if an album is a commercial failure than it's just bad music. period. that idea did not come from the original culture; it's based on a view of what white people have defined as a quality cultural product and 50 (along with countless others i'm sure) have been conditioned to believe that's how good music is defined. and generally speaking any black person in a position of power has most likely had to compromise some aspect of their original culture to make it to where they are today. and thus you can expect black culture to become further perverted by the influence of white culture (as in the example of 50) or almost fully compromised (condi rice).

the other option calls for a total rejection of white culture and its values. this cannot be done through compromise and thus would necessitate a radical displacement of old white people from positions of power in the media and government in order to preserve the original black culture and you know what, that's a losing proposition too.

i dunno am i being too pessimistic?

blackwisdom
08-17-2007, 08:42 AM
Naw. NYOIL and Nas has it right. We don't need the (Hip Hop) industry, the (Hip Hop) industry needs us. That goes for most things in America. Once we realize that and unite then it's a wrap. Unfortunately, the old trick of whipping the biggest baddest Nigger infront of everyone worked too good. The murders of El Hajj, Martin, Fred, Lumumba, etc put most Blacks back in their place. We had something going for a while. When I hear of my elders talking about how everyone, White / Black / whatever, was peace, I dig that. Not to say it was all peace, but it was a united struggle. Du Du Duuu. Then the big bad GOVT came in a squashed it. Divided us with the big bad US economy machine. Stomped out our leaders (El Hajj, Fred, H. Rap, etc) and replaced them with drug dealers. Bought crack into the streets, guns into the streets, fueled gang wars, and pissed on us worse then the Pide Piper of R&B. We were fired up to go and do something, but when it came time to move the tip of our spear had a change of command.

The civil rights movement was a strategy that was to be morphed as the climate morphed. Some of us see that.

Your assessments are accurate in my eyes. I'm just adding a bit on. We (the Black community) need to start almost from scratch in order to get this thang together again. I see a lot of blood shed to really get it right, even though all we need to do is be ourselves. When we become ourselves, we will see that it's hindering us to be like someone else. We can do it but a vast majority of us must make the first decisive move. Marching ain't gonna cut it, talking ain't gonna cut it. The music of the 60's was just the drum cadance to the movements of the people. Without the movement the music was just noise. The drummers (rappers, artists, etc) can set a tone but the foot soilders must be organized, equipped, trained, ready, willing, and able to move on our objective. Until we get those components together we're just mentally masturbating.

Assassinator
08-17-2007, 08:45 AM
when a white man goes to court, the jury look at him different because he's a upstanding citizen because of the color of his skin but when they look at a black man, they say he's a slave slave slave nigga nigga nigga hahahahahahahaha.

you sound like you feel the same way?

Huggasaurus Sex
08-17-2007, 12:09 PM
Naw. NYOIL and Nas has it right. We don't need the (Hip Hop) industry, the (Hip Hop) industry needs us. That goes for most things in America. Once we realize that and unite then it's a wrap...

...We can do it but a vast majority of us must make the first decisive move. Marching ain't gonna cut it, talking ain't gonna cut it. The music of the 60's was just the drum cadance to the movements of the people. Without the movement the music was just noise. The drummers (rappers, artists, etc) can set a tone but the foot soilders must be organized, equipped, trained, ready, willing, and able to move on our objective. Until we get those components together we're just mentally masturbating.

i admire the attitude but it's not that simple. there are many obstacles in uniting a people. perhaps most importantly, there aren't any crises that you can use to rally the people around. slavery, segregation, no suffrage, severe discrimination in the workplace - those are all broadly based, clear cut black and white issues. every black person, and many whites, can recognize these injustices. and the causes of these injustices -- unfair laws, a lack of accountability for unfair hiring practices -- can be changed though the system. so you had a clear problem and a clear solution that could be achieved by working within the system that caused the injustices in the first place.

it's not gonna be as easy to create a movement around today's social injustices. drugs and violence in black ghettos, underfunded social programs, the erosion of black culture, etc. first, because the blame for these problems is not as clear as those in the past. that's why you have a situation like the banner vs. panel story where some place the blame on blacks themselves (kinda correct) and others place the blame on the system (also correct). so what's the rallying cry when people can't agree on what they should be fighting for? and how do you get people to agree when you're dealing with such ambiguous issues?

second, drugs and violence, bureaucratic bullshit, etc aren't problems exclusive to black people. civilizations have always had to deal with these things. they're commonly viewed as inherent societal problems and i don't think the fact that they're worse in black communities is enough to motivate people to change it.

and finally, the erosion of black culture is definitely not something you can fix from within the system. so when you figure out how you can create a successful mass movement that operates outside the system, which to my knowledge has never succeeded on a large scale in america, please let me know.

Black Man
08-17-2007, 03:56 PM
What Is "black Culture"?

Aqueous Moon
08-17-2007, 04:11 PM
What Is "black Culture"?

I'm saying...looking at this thread, black culture is obviously to long to be explained in time.

Go head and demonstrate it.

IrOnMaN
08-17-2007, 05:58 PM
First, I would like to give a hand for Blackwisdom and Humanface Huggah. Both of you are doing an excellent job of explaining the true issues of today. The both you are truly intelligent. Thank you. :)

Welcome back, Aqueous Moon. It's been a while since I've seen you.

CharlesJones
08-17-2007, 06:38 PM
I think when white people are looking to hire somebody for a job, they look at job experience and they wanna see how a person is gonna dress when they come for the job interview. Ignorant blacks be showing up to job interviews wearing baggy clothes and sneakers and then they wonder why they won't get hired. You don't come to a interview wearing that shit. You're supposed to wear a shirt, dress pants, dress shoes, tie. When you dress up for a job, ignorant blacks think educated blacks that dress like that are uncle toms which is so ignorant to think that way. When you wear dress clothes on a job, those are the jobs that pay real money. You aren't gonna get any real money working at a grocery store, fast food restaurant, retail store. So to the dude who says whites don't wanna hire blacks, i don't think that's true. I shouldn't have said that whites discriminate against blacks for a job because it's against the law to discriminate against a race of people for a job. The people who sell drugs, i would call them dumb because they aren't trying to get a real job because they know they aren't intelligent to get a real job so they would rather take the easy way out and sell drugs to get paid lots of money instead of working for a lot of money. Anybody can stand on the corner and sell drugs. There's no work involved in that.




The reason why it takes so long for employers to call me is because i've had a lot of jobs which doesn't look good on my application because the employers are gonna wanna ask me how come i've had so many jobs. I've had a lot of jobs that pay a low salary because i have a learning disability and this problem affects my brain because it's hard for me to figure things out so i can get a good paying job and keep my job. I think i'm gonna put on my job application from now on that i have a learning disability so employers will understand why i've had so many jobs. Yesterday i talked to my boss at my job about not moving up to a better paying job position as a maintenance technician at a apartment building because i told him i can't handle that type of work and he said that's fine. I had a pay raise recently and on my evaluation, it said that the company would like to see me move up to a better paying position.



I would like to move up to a better paying position but i'm scared because of the way my brain works. My brain works very slow when i try to figure things out so that's why i'm scared to learn more job skills that pay more money and this is affecting me very much because i can't get my own place and i can't get a better car. It takes a lot of money to afford these things and my brain is preventing me from getting a good paying job so i can acquire these things and it's very frustrating. That's why i think about suicide so much because i wanna die so bad because i'm tired of my life and i think about being homeless because if i wasn't living with my parents, i would be homeless and being homeless scares me. Being homeless would definitely make me wanna kill myself.




I'm sorry i got off topic ya'll about what David Banner had to say about these phony black politicans and black leaders.

blackwisdom
08-17-2007, 07:03 PM
i admire the attitude but it's not that simple. there are many obstacles in uniting a people. perhaps most importantly, there aren't any crises that you can use to rally the people around. slavery, segregation, no suffrage, severe discrimination in the workplace - those are all broadly based, clear cut black and white issues. every black person, and many whites, can recognize these injustices. and the causes of these injustices -- unfair laws, a lack of accountability for unfair hiring practices -- can be changed though the system. so you had a clear problem and a clear solution that could be achieved by working within the system that caused the injustices in the first place.

it's not gonna be as easy to create a movement around today's social injustices. drugs and violence in black ghettos, underfunded social programs, the erosion of black culture, etc. first, because the blame for these problems is not as clear as those in the past. that's why you have a situation like the banner vs. panel story where some place the blame on blacks themselves (kinda correct) and others place the blame on the system (also correct). so what's the rallying cry when people can't agree on what they should be fighting for? and how do you get people to agree when you're dealing with such ambiguous issues?

second, drugs and violence, bureaucratic bullshit, etc aren't problems exclusive to black people. civilizations have always had to deal with these things. they're commonly viewed as inherent societal problems and i don't think the fact that they're worse in black communities is enough to motivate people to change it.

and finally, the erosion of black culture is definitely not something you can fix from within the system. so when you figure out how you can create a successful mass movement that operates outside the system, which to my knowledge has never succeeded on a large scale in america, please let me know.Believe me I'm not trying to be condescending but you're speaking to the choir. Not to tell my business but I've sat at a couple round tables that were organized in order to deal with the very issues that you discussed here. I feel you. Believe me your comments are nothing new to me but they are things that many people don't realize have to be dealt with. Even though the mountain seems to be steep and insurmountable, if the summit is a place that we will to be we will be there. I won't go any more indebt cause this is a very open and insecure forum.

What Is "black Culture"? The culture of those who classify themselves Black.

Realize that "Black" people inhabit the entire planet. I can't say that we need to act Afrikan, Brazilian, Indian, like Eskamos, etc. I'm saying that we need to express our innate natural beauty as unencumbered (spelling? ) by imperialism and colonialization as possible.
First, I would like to give a hand for Blackwisdom and Humanface Huggah. Both of you are doing an excellent job of explaining the true issues of today. The both you are truly intelligent. Thank you. :)Welcome back, Aqueous Moon. It's been a while since I've seen you. Thanks. I realize that my words reveal my lack of knowledge. I'm not intelligent, I just study. As I study (my spirit) I realize how ignorant that I trully am.

I understand your comment and trully appreciate it. Just wanted to share my internal insight of it.

Peace

Huggasaurus Sex
08-17-2007, 07:12 PM
thanks ironman. you know people fight and bicker but i think forums like this can be a good place to test ideas and gain insight from others.

black man, i used 'black culture' as a shorthand for pretty much any of the behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, etc that were valued by native peoples prior to the imperialist conquests of the europeans. while there exists a huge diversity in the range of the cultures that may fall into this category, you can simply take it to mean any culture that is unlike the dominant christian/capitalist white culture and i still get the point across. white people can choose what they absorb from black culture -- music, fashion, style of dance, etc -- or nothing at all while black people simply do not have those same choices because if they want to "succeed" in that oprah winfrey sense then they must learn a certain way, speak a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way and none of those certain ways came from the culture they grew up with...

edit: damn black wisdom already said it for me :b

blackwisdom
08-17-2007, 07:49 PM
thanks ironman. you know people fight and bicker but i think forums like this can be a good place to test ideas and gain insight from others.

black man, i used 'black culture' as a shorthand for pretty much any of the behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, etc that were valued by native peoples prior to the imperialist conquests of the europeans. while there exists a huge diversity in the range of the cultures that may fall into this category, you can simply take it to mean any culture that is unlike the dominant christian/capitalist white culture and i still get the point across. white people can choose what they absorb from black culture -- music, fashion, style of dance, etc -- or nothing at all while black people simply do not have those same choices because if they want to "succeed" in that oprah winfrey sense then they must learn a certain way, speak a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way and none of those certain ways came from the culture they grew up with...

edit: damn black wisdom already said it for me :bActually you said what I was thinking but you verbalized it better than I was thinking it.

I talked to some of my co-workers today and they were caught up in the thought that I may grow some locks or get my hair braided. Some of them said, "Hell naw he ain't!!" Some of them were being sarcastic and played the political role of saying that I'm in my rights to do what I want with my hair. It's crazy, but it's the military and I understand military culture. Just me growing my hair and locking it up is a huge thing to some. That's moreso a military cultural norm being violated, but ultimately it's the Eurocentric culture norm that's being violated. Taming my naps is part of the overall etiquette of the culture.

Most people hold off being natural to elevate in corporate America. Even though this isn't the rule, it's not often violated for fear of some sort of retribution.

We do have to assimulate when we're asking someone else to place food on our table. I want to start growing my hair after the winter solstice but I may not due to my economic situation (my ability to take care of my family at this time).

Ketchums
08-18-2007, 04:01 AM
Do I agree with everything he said? Not necessarily...but I agree with some of it, and most importantly, I love the fact that an MC is so opinionated about A) Someone other than "The Man," B) leadership who many are afraid to criticize, and C) about anything period, and is able to articulate it not just in a song, but in a written article. It's even crazier because David Banner is a mainstream, radio-embraced artist, not an obscure indie MC whose opinion wouldn't matter to people. Dude has a sense of responsibility, and I respect it tremendously.

blackwisdom
08-18-2007, 07:34 AM
Do I agree with everything he said? Not necessarily...but I agree with some of it, and most importantly, I love the fact that an MC is so opinionated about A) Someone other than "The Man," B) leadership who many are afraid to criticize, and C) about anything period, and is able to articulate it not just in a song, but in a written article. It's even crazier because David Banner is a mainstream, radio-embraced artist, not an obscure indie MC whose opinion wouldn't matter to people. Dude has a sense of responsibility, and I respect it tremendously.Not to mention he is working on his masters degree, that is if he isn't already done with it.

TSA
08-18-2007, 09:17 PM
What Is "black Culture"?


your a fuck up.

Dirk Daring
08-21-2007, 12:08 PM
When it is all said and done it is just entertainment lets ask the question have any one actually heard the lyrics from a Fall out boy song or how about Iron Maiden, AC/DC i mean come on it just music but with those heads it is about politics and in addition you have more white girls and boys dressing and acting black and listening to rap music more than any

the Audience can draw that up by looking at Justin Timberlake and Kevin Federline just to name a few.... and Rap has gone worldwide you have now Russian rappers, Middle Eastern rappers as well as other acts rapping in the language of their people is that it is scaring the shyt out of the Elite......The young white population in Memphis Tennessee are beginning to throw away the Elvis Presley memorabilla and taking hajj to Brooklyn, NY, Miami, Fl, Compton, and Long Beach, CA wearing basketball sneakers, gaudy jewelry fronts and all that sneak in "nigga" here and there saying im Spanish or Mixed as a quick cover up.

besides if the David Banners and 50cents got on the Opera Winfrey Show them white women would be lusting for those brothers.

IrOnMaN
08-21-2007, 12:50 PM
When it is all said and done it is just entertainment lets ask the question have any one actually heard the lyrics from a Fall out boy song or how about Iron Maiden, AC/DC i mean come on it just music but with those heads it is about politics and in addition you have more white girls and boys dressing and acting black and listening to rap music more than any

the Audience can draw that up by looking at Justin Timberlake and Kevin Federline just to name a few.... and Rap has gone worldwide you have now Russian rappers, Middle Eastern rappers as well as other acts rapping in the language of their people is that it is scaring the shyt out of the Elite......The young white population in Memphis Tennessee are beginning to throw away the Elvis Presley memorabilla and taking hajj to Brooklyn, NY, Miami, Fl, Compton, and Long Beach, CA wearing basketball sneakers, gaudy jewelry fronts and all that sneak in "nigga" here and there saying im Spanish or Mixed as a quick cover up.

besides if the David Banners and 50cents got on the Opera Winfrey Show them white women would be lusting for those brothers.

You have a point. Hip-Hop is very populuar.

Black Man
08-21-2007, 01:38 PM
your a fuck up.

I take that as you don't know.

Black Man
08-21-2007, 01:48 PM
The culture of those who classify themselves Black.

Realize that "Black" people inhabit the entire planet. I can't say that we need to act Afrikan, Brazilian, Indian, like Eskamos, etc. I'm saying that we need to express our innate natural beauty as unencumbered (spelling? ) by imperialism and colonialization as possible.


Now I know who practices this culture but the question still remains unanswered, "What Is Black Culture"?

White people inhabit the entire planet too.

Black Man
08-21-2007, 02:13 PM
black man, i used 'black culture' as a shorthand for pretty much any of the behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, etc that were valued by native peoples prior to the imperialist conquests of the europeans. while there exists a huge diversity in the range of the cultures that may fall into this category, you can simply take it to mean any culture that is unlike the dominant christian/capitalist white culture and i still get the point across. white people can choose what they absorb from black culture -- music, fashion, style of dance, etc -- or nothing at all while black people simply do not have those same choices because if they want to "succeed" in that oprah winfrey sense then they must learn a certain way, speak a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way and none of those certain ways came from the culture they grew up with...

edit: damn black wisdom already said it for me :b

Natives (across the globe) prior to christianity didn't have the same behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, etc, thus they didn't have the same "culture"

Everything other than the christianity isn't black culture.

Every "black" person doesn't see success as oprah sees it or that idea of "oprah" success.

Huggasaurus Sex
08-21-2007, 02:25 PM
Natives (across the globe) prior to christianity didn't have the same behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, etc, thus they didn't have the same "culture"

Everything other than the christianity isn't black culture.

Every "black" person doesn't see success as oprah sees it or that idea of "oprah" success.

you just repeated what i already said. and my argument holds for all cultures that aren't part of the capitalist/christian order (yes most of the world) which is why i extended that generalization... now respond to the points i made without nitpicking the trivial semantics.

Black Man
08-21-2007, 03:32 PM
you just repeated what i already said. and my argument holds for all cultures that aren't part of the capitalist/christian order (yes most of the world) which is why i extended that generalization... now respond to the points i made without nitpicking the trivial semantics.

I asked what "Black Culture" is and still no answer. There's no answer because you really don't know what "Black Culture" is.

I didn't ask about any other culture except for "Black Culture" and you want to lump everything together as if everybody practiced the same culture around the globe...they didn't.

Just in case you missed the question the first time, here it is again, "What Is Black Culture?"

IrOnMaN
08-21-2007, 03:55 PM
I asked what "Black Culture" is and still no answer. There's no answer because you really don't know what "Black Culture" is.

I didn't ask about any other culture except for "Black Culture" and you want to lump everything together as if everybody practiced the same culture around the globe...they didn't.

Just in case you missed the question the first time, here it is again, "What Is Black Culture?"

Black Culture is to broad of a topic to discuss. I can write a ten page paper explaining what black culture is. This is probably the reason why no one wants to post about it because it's to broad. Thanks.

Huggasaurus Sex
08-21-2007, 04:42 PM
black man, i used 'black culture' as a shorthand for pretty much any of the behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, etc that were valued by native peoples prior to the imperialist conquests of the europeans. while there exists a huge diversity in the range of the cultures that may fall into this category, you can simply take it to mean any culture that is unlike the dominant christian/capitalist white culture and i still get the point across. white people can choose what they absorb from black culture -- music, fashion, style of dance, etc -- or nothing at all while black people simply do not have those same choices because if they want to "succeed" in that oprah winfrey sense then they must learn a certain way, speak a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way and none of those certain ways came from the culture they grew up with...

go back read every post where i reference "black culture" and you'll see that the above explanation is applicable. in so far as various cultures can be grouped together according to characteristics that distinguish them from the dominant capitalist/christian culture, namely that the culture is neither monotheistic nor embodies the will of the global free market, then yes we can speak of a "black culture," even if it's only in a metaphorical and not phenotypical sense of the word "black." and yes, all across the globe the actual and very diverse cultures that constitute "black culture" are being destroyed and/or replaced by the familiar dominant culture (which i sometimes refer to as "white" in shorthand).

but you're missing the forest for the trees. that was a minor point in a larger argument about how black people are basically fucked: retain your traditional cultural values and be disadvantaged when it comes to succeeding in a white world or act in accordance to how white people expect you to act and lose your culture. you can't have it both ways.

blackwisdom
08-22-2007, 07:08 PM
Now I know who practices this culture but the question still remains unanswered, "What Is Black Culture"?

White people inhabit the entire planet too.Humans walked the earth enjoying great civilizations 10s of thousands of years before anyone ever seen a white race. We had some albinos scattered about but not a complete race of whites.

White culture is xenophobic, materialistic, and patriarical. Black (and I hate to use that word in this text but I use it for reference sake) culture is xenophiliac (spelling), spiritual, and matriarical. That's the difference.

When I say materialistic, I mean that they focus on the flesh before the spirit as a culture. Just look at America. When I say spiritual, I mean that we are so-called superstitious and focus on the unseen to describe the seen as a culture.

Does this answer your question?

SG
08-22-2007, 09:18 PM
What Is "black Culture"?

Black culture is activites heavenly connected/associated/originated within our community here in the UNITED STATES.

A prime example is HIPHOP, bloods & crips, etc

Black culture goes beyond the traditional history/heritage of African American lineage

In this aspect, black culture will only be used in the American society.


When thinking of black culture think of it in modern day form: PRESENT which may be incorrect to say