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blackwisdom
10-30-2007, 02:22 AM
Peace and Greetings Fam,

It's been a while since I've posted. I've read some replies to my "Jesus" comments and what not and that's cool. I just wanted to open up a new discussion. Here's a few points on the topic. I'ma keep 'em short and concise. We can elaborate in the discussion.

- Eastern Concept of Self In Relation to God
Self's essence is a molecule of web; one in the same with the entire web of all creation. Self is a drop of water from the eternal ocean; possessing all of the qualities of the ocean but with much less quantity. (An internal concept)

-Western Concept of Self In Relation to God
Self's essence is fallen spirit which can only reach glimpses of divinity through submission to an external God force. Self is detached from God unless the person declares the contrary.(An external concept)

-Eastern Concept of Salvation
We come into creation with full divine potential. Through internal (spiritual) cultvation the self is awakened to it's oneness with the creator. We are one in the same with the creator, we just have to wake up to the reality and manifest our potential.(An internal concept)

-Western Concept of Salvation
We come into creation doomed to die (to never experience the presence of God). We can only enter the presence of God by submitting to His will. We must allow the spirit of God to enter us and dwell within us in order to gain salvation.(An external process at the outset)

-Eastern Concept of Damnation
When we fail to elevate (spiritually cultivate) above our own animal nature, we succumb to our own innate devils (ungodly self).(An internal concept)

-Western Concept of Damnation
We must submit our souls to God in order to reach salvation, otherwise we are doomed to damnation. Our souls are doomed to hell at birth due to original sin. Only God can save us from damnation.(An external concept)

-Eastern Processes to Spiritual Cultivation
We go through some sort of initiation (even though it may not even seem like it). We cultivate our lifestyle (diet, temperment, exercise, etc) in order to conduce the environment for us to achieve full benefit from internal prayer, meditation, fasting, etc and external actions that compliment this lifestyle. Rituals and rites are performed in order to evoke to assistance of the ancestors and divine principles. Over all it's an internal act that is nurtured by a conducive environment and fellowship.

-Western Processes to Religious Existance
We devote our selves to God through rituals and rites. We evoke God's spirit in our lives in order to give us the strength to defeat the (external) Devil. By living through God we may aquire a life after this one in glory.(An external process at the outset)

I hope that I sumed this up aight. I'm not attempting to offend just adding awareness to the differences in order to say that we can co-exist in come sort of way. We must first learn each other in order to deal with one another. We may find great likenesses in the midst of our differences. I love just being able to build and grow with people instead of them wanting me to answer why I don't adhere to the same path as them any longer. We're going in the same direction just different paths. Lets knock down the trees so we can see each other more clearly. Well lets not knock down the trees (that's mean) lets just try to see through the leaves a bit easier and listen to each other's voices more attentively. Please add on.

Peace

Prince Rai
10-30-2007, 03:57 PM
This is well written and the comparisons are understandable.

Finding common ground between both schools of thought will be intriguing as it will be hard to reconcile Eastern inner mysticism and the Western scientific yet storyesque approach to divinity etc.

One main difference, and perhaps the most crucial difference IMO is that eastern thought adopts a positive inlook at ones self, whereas western thought utilises fear to gather you mind together.

Koolish
10-30-2007, 04:38 PM
western religions don't seem to entirely or explicitly address the metaphysical idea of the self.

"He who overcomes others is strong; he who overcomes himself is mighty."
-Lao Tzu

Mumm Ra
11-01-2007, 12:06 AM
good stuff
it beautifully illustrates the effects of being predominately left (external) or right (internal) brained.

SID
11-01-2007, 11:17 AM
a biased comparison, but still a good one....

blackwisdom
11-01-2007, 06:46 PM
good stuff
it beautifully illustrates the effects of being predominately left (external) or right (internal) brained.I think so.
a biased comparison, but still a good one.... I tried (somewhat) not to be. As much as I would like to think highly of myself, I'm still a good ways away from Ab man (AusarAuset term).

I tried to enter a comment last night, but I timed out and lost it. Here's my attempt to restate my original thought...

Due to the Western world's military/economic dominance most/all things deemed "Eastern" are considered inferior/subordinant. This includes spiritual concepts, co-called philosophy, medicine, images, etc.

...I wrote so much more but can't remember it now. That statement mostly sums up the entire thought process I had at the time. I would love to see "Eastern" concepts utilized more in the West. We (people classified as Black/indigenous people) already manifest them in our daily lives. We just don't understand them and don't know how to magnify our potential. Again I don't want people to think that I'm coming off as a reversed racist or whatnot, I just want to state cultural and ethnic norms.

It all goes back to how we are perceptions are oriented. I was pleased to have a (White) Sister make positive comments about my Ankh today. She said that the book I'm reading is a bit too deep for her but she was on the level as far as understanding Kemetic (even though she didn't use that term) symbols.

Well that's just another $.03 or $.04.

Peace Fam.

OH NOW I REMEMBER!!

Human Face Huggah, I was replying to you.

What disturbs me is how the term modern is synonymous with Western. This influences the thought pattern of the term old age (i.e. out dated) being synonymous with Eastern. This is due to what I stated earlier with the military/economic dominance. This military/economic dominance influences indigenous people to adapt another's ways and dismiss their own.

When we look at the industrial revolution, many great things came out of it but.... look at all of the waste and pollution of mismanaged materials and energies. It would be interesting to see what it would be like if the Aryans hadn't concured the Dravidians and the Euro-Arabs (my made-up term) hadn't concured North Africa? If the Moors had maintained their grip on Spain and Western Eurasia? What if the Aztecs and aboriginal Americans had maintained dominance in their land? I wonder... What would a Right dominant brain world look like...?

Mumm Ra
11-01-2007, 07:00 PM
^no it doesn't
okay

Mumm Ra
11-01-2007, 07:50 PM
I'm going by the assumption that those western concepts of religion mainly means white
white people are naturally more left brained than non whites
the left hemisphere externalizes things
the right internalizes them
I thought it was a simple correlation anyway
I'm not saying what a right or left brainer will practice I'm just saying the external and internal concepts that blackwisdom listed were results of a collective society being predominately left or right

STYLE
11-01-2007, 10:10 PM
huggah don't like it when you talk bout his brain man ! leave his hemispheres outta this! bwahahah.

seriously tho...
blkwis i often imagine the similar senarios.

what if the blk plague wiped out the remaining 1/3 of europe that survived?

what if the voyage to india (new world- lol) failed asnd they were never heard from again?

what if all races broke with nature and took revenge on YT at the same time?


ect ect


right brained or melanin dominated world would be:

based on honor, opposed to underhandedness and deceit.

respectful of nature, opposed to raping the planet of resources in the pursuit of profit.

clean, the absence of "modernized and idustrialized" nations would result in rivers and lakes you could drink from. soil that you could grow food out of. clear night skies you could see the whole galaxy in.

knowlegeable, in order for western society to function there must be an ignorant poor base majority. eastern philo/relig is infused with knowledge of science, reality and self.

healthy, no chemical food additives. no medicine that causes just as many ailments as it relieves.(notice i didn't say CURE) all natural food, even meat is fresh and the animals have not been terrorized so we wouldn't be consuming the fear toxins.

yeah there are no cars,TV,Internet,PS3 ect ect but do those things really enrich your quality of life or are they just a distraction so you don't realize what ur missing?

i mean, reality TV is you sitting on the couch WATCHING OTHER PEOPLE LIVE LIFE.

STYLE
11-01-2007, 10:28 PM
how do you know whites are more likely to have a dominant left brain than blacks or asians?

and even if that were true, how do you know that this is the reason western concept of religion differs from eastern concepts?

religion is an expression of a culture. culture is the collective conscious of a people. actions speak louder than words.

need i say more?

huggah u know the fuctions of the brain as relates to hemispheric difference. stop frontin!

u yourself claimed your people were the best at killin rapin and stealin. what part of the brain justifies that behavior? surely not the emotional creative side.

STYLE
11-02-2007, 02:41 AM
btw i'm willing to lend an ear to this theory if anyone can show me substantial research that backs the claim. until then i'll consider it pseudoscience. :list:

there you go with the left brain again. you have to see numbers to get a firm understanding. what would substantial resarch do for you? you either understand it or you don't.

i could provide a false data sheet and false references. what diff does it make?

you look for an external source for understanding. my understanding comes from within. this is how right brained people deduce the truth.

the truth is like a sour grape among a bunch of sweet ones. once we put it in our mouth we know it to be the truth. we don't need the acidic content report of the grape or the notarized comparison to other sour grapes in order to determine that its sour. and just because its sour to me doesn't mean its sour to you. things are not so absolute. that is a lefty thought




secondly.....
left and right brain is not always a literal term. it encompasses more than just brain function but personality, disposition as well as perception.

STYLE
11-02-2007, 02:44 AM
you will find that many eastern philo/relig teach this process of introspection and "being like water" meaning to be formless ie not concrete/absolute.

blackwisdom
11-02-2007, 08:31 AM
stylemasterr, you've essentially just told me that if you feel something is right then it must be right -- that sensing truth will somehow manifest it... do you realize how wacky that is?

that, by the way, is precisely how your man in the sig thinks and that's also why he's literally the worst president in this country's history... because he'd rather go with his gut than what the charts and the tables backed by substantiated research is telling him. he'd rather ask god for answers than the people phd's...

and it looks like we've got yet another neurobiologist in this forum telling me all about how the lateralization of brain function works. it's astounding what you people can convince yourselves you think you know.

guess it's that "right-brained" thinking...If I may interject at this point. The aboriginal Africans/Indians (Dravidians), etc knew that their essence was/is God. When we take off all of out coats and clothes (garbage in our minds) we reveal our true flesh. Our true flesh is the nothingness that is our origin. From that nothingness we pull all knowledge and wisdom. Once we've reached that state we no longer have to read someone else's words to deduce the "truth." We pull it from the source.

GW could never accomplish this seeing that he has (and more than likely will) never cultivate his spirit. Therefore he can not be a good sounding board for this example of intuiting knowledge (not information) and wisdom.

When we operate in our base/animal nature, we are outside of the reach of our divine essence. Once I reach a certain level in my spiritual cultivation I would love to begin to delve into the science of the brain (from a "right" hemisphere paradigm:)).

Good arguments. Again the different schools of thought may not coincide but it's good for both side's growth.

Koolish
11-02-2007, 10:22 AM
"my understanding comes from within. this is how right brained people deduce the truth." this means you've defined something subjectively. everyone does this all the time. how? through our own opinions.

wanting evidence isn't being left brained, it's being sensible.

evidence is the only thing that can conclude an argument. otherwise it's based purely on reason, and i highly doubt the issue of how the brain works is strictly based on reason alone.

STYLE
11-02-2007, 12:33 PM
actually bush does not make decisions at all. or at leas to the extent that you assume he does. Bush is told what to do by his team of advisers and his superiors.

if you look at the situation closely you can see that i am right.

we all can agree that bush is an idiot. when he first took office he could barely read off a teleprompter. as a young man, all of his biz ventures failed. in college he was known as a partyboy "c" student.

so if bush was really running this country things would be a whole lot worse. and there is no way in hell he could be masterminding any malfeasant polices.



now to address the "bullshit i spewed out of my ass".....
you all are at a serious disadvantage in life if you cannot recognize the truth when you hear it.
if you are not completely ignorant, like huggah he is clearly intelligent and informed, then you should be able to process information and discern its veracity without relying on an external source.
think about this. a researcher does the same if the data he uncovers does/does not match his instinct.

TSA
11-02-2007, 12:54 PM
Christianity is eastern too

western religion is humanism

WARPATH
11-02-2007, 01:23 PM
If I may interject at this point. The aboriginal Africans/Indians (Dravidians), etc knew that their essence was/is God. When we take off all of out coats and clothes (garbage in our minds) we reveal our true flesh. Our true flesh is the nothingness that is our origin. From that nothingness we pull all knowledge and wisdom. Once we've reached that state we no longer have to read someone else's words to deduce the "truth." We pull it from the source.

GW could never accomplish this seeing that he has (and more than likely will) never cultivate his spirit. Therefore he can not be a good sounding board for this example of intuiting knowledge (not information) and wisdom.

When we operate in our base/animal nature, we are outside of the reach of our divine essence. Once I reach a certain level in my spiritual cultivation I would love to begin to delve into the science of the brain (from a "right" hemisphere paradigm:)).

Good arguments. Again the different schools of thought may not coincide but it's good for both side's growth.

I think this relates to the old Lakota tradition of giving up all physical possessions, including clothes, to mourn in the loss of a loved one (specifically a child, I could be confusing this with something else).

Also, the literal English translation, for the English word ring is "to trash your finger"

Prince Rai
09-28-2009, 06:44 AM
Bump. This is a good thread.