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LORD NOSE
11-15-2007, 05:25 PM
???

V4D3R
11-16-2007, 05:17 PM
The Romans when they mistranslated the New Testament. The true meaning of the kingdom of heaven was purposely misconceived and made to be heresy.

The true location of heaven is within you and all around you according to the true words of Jesus. And heaven is the creator itself and everything in the universe.

LORD NOSE
05-17-2008, 02:45 PM
Where did the idea of Going to Heaven when you Die come from ? ???

BornPower
05-17-2008, 04:07 PM
I always thought it was something pagan that the so-called christians adopted...

but I'm not sure

LHX
05-17-2008, 04:59 PM
historically speaking - i have no idea

but it seems to be packaged in with making people afraid of death in the first place


1. if you make somebody scared of death
then
2. force them to lead a miserable and oppressed life
you can
3. convince them to continue being oppressed
if you can
4. convince them that they will go to a better physical place as long as they stay 'in line'


in short:

the idea of 'going to heaven when you die' is a crafty way of making people feel good about not following their instincts to look for heaven on earth (during their mortal 'lifetime') when they are trapped in hell

hectis
05-17-2008, 05:31 PM
I always thought it was something pagan that the so-called christians adopted...

but I'm not sure


it is funny how the Christians of the world take other things and try to make it there own I don't blame the mass though the only know what they are taught but when u do try to teach them they do not want to hear it but some do

hectis
05-17-2008, 05:33 PM
historically speaking - i have no idea

but it seems to be packaged in with making people afraid of death in the first place


1. if you make somebody scared of death
then
2. force them to lead a miserable and oppressed life
you can
3. convince them to continue being oppressed
if you can
4. convince them that they will go to a better physical place as long as they stay 'in line'


in short:

the idea of 'going to heaven when you die' is a crafty way of making people feel good about not following their instincts to look for heaven on earth (during their mortal 'lifetime') when they are trapped in hell

agree and if u tell people when u die if u were not good u will go to hell and burn forever would be the same then

Prince Rai
05-17-2008, 05:48 PM
the notion of a spirit world has been around for some time. shamans who have existed for centuries believed in spirits and our abilities to communicate with them. the thought of us being able to share life in a different world could have emanated from there.

Prince Rai
05-17-2008, 05:49 PM
The Romans when they mistranslated the New Testament. The true meaning of the kingdom of heaven was purposely misconceived and made to be heresy.

The true location of heaven is within you and all around you according to the true words of Jesus. And heaven is the creator itself and everything in the universe.

the notion may be older than the romans. the jews also believed in heaven.

Cthulhu
05-17-2008, 07:25 PM
Well a lot of ancient cultures have an afterlife that is neither punishment or paradise. Alot of the most ancient mythologies have no such thing as a rewarding afterlife: Judaism, early Greek religions, Mesopotamian mythology, etc. I'd say the closest precursor to Christianity's idea is probably classical Greece's Elysian Fields where heroes went after death. Greece also popularized the idea of a punishing place with Tartarus for the wicked. Everyone else went to the Asphodel Fields which is basically a leftover from earlier mythologies as just a dreary holding place for the dead, although it might have influenced the medieval idea of Purgatory.

Egypt had some similar ideas for where only Kings went, but I'm not as well-versed in Egyptian mythology.

Considering Jews were in most contact with the Hellenic world (Greeks, Seleucids, Macedonians, Romans, etc.), so I think the Classical origin is the most valid.

A lot of pagan European religions had ideas similar to heaven (Norse mythology has Valhalla, Celtic mythology has Tir Na Nog), but Jews and Christians didn't really come into contact with them until the middle ages.

Cthulhu
05-17-2008, 07:28 PM
Oh yeah, and a lot of Eastern religions have ideas of paradise, but I don't know if Jews had any contact with peopld of Vedic religions. (Buddhism didn't even start until after Christianity existed.)

LORD NOSE
05-17-2008, 08:03 PM
historically speaking - i have no idea

but it seems to be packaged in with making people afraid of death in the first place


1. if you make somebody scared of death
then
2. force them to lead a miserable and oppressed life
you can
3. convince them to continue being oppressed
if you can
4. convince them that they will go to a better physical place as long as they stay 'in line'


in short:

the idea of 'going to heaven when you die' is a crafty way of making people feel good about not following their instincts to look for heaven on earth (during their mortal 'lifetime') when they are trapped in hell


lol - my nigga




Originally Posted by V4D3R http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?p=955857#post955857)
The true meaning of the kingdom of heaven was purposely misconceived and made to be heresy.



i see it this way also -


__________________________________________________ __

people being taken up to the whirlwind were thought to be dead by the people who stayed on the ground - its said that in some cases clones were set in their place for a time - some of the people were thought and were told is dead, really didn't die, but went upward into another world -

this is why its called the heaven above - and the god in the clouds - in the bible there are stories of those who were taken into the whirlwinds -


what are whirlwinds ?

LORD NOSE
05-17-2008, 08:09 PM
2 Kings 2:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=1&version=31&context=verse)
[ Elijah Taken Up to Heaven ] When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.





2 Kings 2:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?" "Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.
2 Kings 2:8-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=8&end_verse=10&version=31&context=context) (in Context) 2 Kings 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




2 Kings 2:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
"You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise not."
2 Kings 2:9-11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=9&end_verse=11&version=31&context=context) (in Context) 2 Kings 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)

LORD NOSE
05-17-2008, 08:17 PM
Mark 16:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=16&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
Mark 16:18-20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=16&verse=18&end_verse=20&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Mark 16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=16&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


Luke 9:51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=9&verse=51&version=31&context=verse)
[ Samaritan Opposition ] As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem.
Luke 9:50-52 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=9&verse=50&end_verse=52&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Luke 9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=9&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


Luke 24:51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=51&version=31&context=verse)
While he was blessing them, he left them and was takenup into heaven.
Luke 24:50-52 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=50&end_verse=52&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Luke 24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




Acts 1:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Acts 1:8-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=8&end_verse=10&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Acts 1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




Acts 1:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=11&version=31&context=verse)
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
Acts 1:10-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=10&end_verse=12&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Acts 1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)

LORD NOSE
05-17-2008, 08:20 PM
Exodus 14:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them,
Exodus 14:18-20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=18&end_verse=20&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Exodus 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


Exodus 14:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.
Exodus 14:19-21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=19&end_verse=21&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Exodus 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)

STYLE
05-17-2008, 08:30 PM
is this where baum got the idea for the wizard of oz?

whirlwind to another world......

LHX
05-18-2008, 12:08 PM
at this point

it seems that 'death' is mostly psychosomatic


to a large degree it depends on how attached people become to their human bodies and how determined they are not to acknowledge life and intelligence in its various forms

for some reason - these death stories come to the forefront of peoples minds when we also have stories of transformation upon death

(the phoenix)



the best traps are the ones that people dont even recognize

dezmond
05-18-2008, 12:25 PM
Id imagine that the earliest was either direct from god.........

Or in the earliest instance to bring people together into a community with the same morals/values & such so people are less likely to step out of line...

Bit like following the ten commandments...

imo

V4D3R
05-18-2008, 12:27 PM
at this point

it seems that 'death' is mostly psychosomatic


to a large degree it depends on how attached people become to their human bodies and how determined they are not to acknowledge life and intelligence in its various forms

for some reason - these death stories come to the forefront of peoples minds when we also have stories of transformation upon death

(the phoenix)



the best traps are the ones that people dont even recognize
People become attached to many things here - it really could be about your state of mind upon death. Why else would it be hard for a rich man to reach "Heaven"?

You can be rich in many different ways, rich in knowledge, rich in beauty, rich in material wealth, but how can a soul comfort itself when the time to be around his accumulated wealth is gone?

LHX
05-18-2008, 12:34 PM
a strange thing happens when you release everything you have

... suddenly everything else belongs to you all at once

dezmond
05-18-2008, 12:39 PM
I can see that... You have no responsibilities therefore you see everything in perspective.............

LHX
05-18-2008, 12:41 PM
you have no obligations to any particular property -

everything is reduced to the same level

you have equal ownership of everything



with proper respect - you can put it all to good use

V4D3R
05-18-2008, 12:46 PM
The thought is pleasant - but the reality of how it is - is the cause of everything wrong when you look at it in that sense.

Having the knowledge is not enough nowadays.

LHX
05-18-2008, 12:52 PM
the thought is valid but nobody ever said its easy


knowledge is one thing

enduring pain is another


seeing images of a mother holding her dead child wrapped in plastic in the postscript of last week's earthquake sets off 2 emotions

1. lament at what seems to be an intense tragedy that could bring me to tears if i let it
2. a reminder that it in order to endure this planet and this universe - you have to (painfully) accept a lot of shit and not allow yourself to put too much value in any ONE thing (and in the process - to value everything)

LHX
05-18-2008, 01:16 PM
in hindsight - i didnt really like that last post i wrote

but
i think it almost describes what i am trying to get at:

even tho it sounds nice and seems unattainable because it is such a sharp contrast to what is generally going on
it isnt necessarily unattainable


intense concentration and discipline is not easy

(mantis style requires tremendous arm and finger strength)

V4D3R
05-18-2008, 02:02 PM
(mantis style requires tremendous arm and finger strength)
gCra4qOrjFw

LHX
05-18-2008, 02:15 PM
... see those mountains way in the distant background there?



i think there is somebody hiding in them

Olive Oil Goombah
05-18-2008, 02:35 PM
Possessing Memory probably gave us the idea of seeing our dead beyond our life somwhere. We are limiting ourselves and our species to our recorded history which is very short and vague.

LHX
05-18-2008, 03:09 PM
tru

anything to do with memory is a tricky subject altogether

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Memento_poster.jpg/200px-Memento_poster.jpg

WARPATH
05-19-2008, 11:39 AM
the knowledge of a spirit world has been around for some time. Interpreters who have exist even today communicate with spirits. The thought of us being able to share life in a different world emanated from there.


Fixed.

Black Man
05-19-2008, 12:26 PM
historically speaking - i have no idea

but it seems to be packaged in with making people afraid of death in the first place

Why does it have to be about making people afraid of death? From my observation, when people speak on this subject the norm is some type of control issue....MAKING people afraid of death. Could it not be something else?

1. if you make somebody scared of death
then
2. force them to lead a miserable and oppressed life
you can
3. convince them to continue being oppressed
if you can
4. convince them that they will go to a better physical place as long as they stay 'in line'


in short:

the idea of 'going to heaven when you die' is a crafty way of making people feel good about not following their instincts to look for heaven on earth (during their mortal 'lifetime') when they are trapped in hell

The current idea held by the majority of people concerning heaven and/or hell comes from the greeks and romans through their misunderstanding of their Masters. This is the current idea, prior to the current idea the idea of a heaven and hell comes from the so-called (ancient) egyptian.

The Sun of Man have searched for that mystery god for trillions of years.....

WARPATH
05-19-2008, 12:34 PM
The Sun of Man have searched for that mystery god for trillions of years.....

Maybe your looking in the wrong places?

LORD NOSE
01-16-2011, 01:54 AM
up

pro.Graveface
01-16-2011, 07:47 AM
it has to do with the star 1 comes from, i tink.
PEACE

JASPER BEARDLY
04-22-2011, 05:08 AM
The Romans when they mistranslated the New Testament. The true meaning of the kingdom of heaven was purposely misconceived and made to be heresy.

The true location of heaven is within you and all around you according to the true words of Jesus. And heaven is the creator itself and everything in the universe.

deep

Fatal Guillotine
04-23-2011, 05:22 PM
Heaven in Greek and Hebrew literally means the "sky". There are actually 7 heavens as described in The Book of Enoch, but the "kingdom of heaven" is used to describe an earthly kingdom. Heaven is just used to describe a paradise, but it is not literally in the sky, it will be here on earth.

Fatal Guillotine
04-23-2011, 05:24 PM
2 Kings 2:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=1&version=31&context=verse)
[ Elijah Taken Up to Heaven ] When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.





2 Kings 2:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?" "Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.
2 Kings 2:8-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=8&end_verse=10&version=31&context=context) (in Context) 2 Kings 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




2 Kings 2:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
"You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise not."
2 Kings 2:9-11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=9&end_verse=11&version=31&context=context) (in Context) 2 Kings 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


It's the word shamayim according to my concordance.

Meaning:

1) heaven, heavens, sky

a) visible heavens, sky

1) as abode of the stars

2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc

b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

Fatal Guillotine
04-23-2011, 05:28 PM
i dont know how i overlooked this thread

Mark 16:19
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
Mark 16:18-20 (in Context) Mark 16 (Whole Chapter)

Luke 24:51
While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven.
Luke 24:50-52 (in Context) Luke 24 (Whole Chapter)

ouranos

1) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it

a) the universe, the world

b) the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced

c) the sidereal or starry heavens

2) the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings




Luke 9:51
[ Samaritan Opposition ] As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem.
Luke 9:50-52 (in Context) Luke 9 (Whole Chapter)

analēmpsis


1) a taking up

The word is translated as ascension, taking up, received up. The word heaven is an addition of the NIV - the word analēmpsis is used here but not ouranos.

And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he steadfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, (KJV)

As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. (NIV)

IrOnMaN
04-23-2011, 07:18 PM
So, heaven and hell doesn't exist. When we die, we just die. Nothing more, nothing less. Hmmmm.

RzaRectum
04-24-2011, 02:26 AM
Heaven in Greek and Hebrew literally means the "sky". There are actually 7 heavens as described in The Book of Enoch, but the "kingdom of heaven" is used to describe an earthly kingdom. Heaven is just used to describe a paradise, but it is not literally in the sky, it will be here on earth.

2 Kings 2:1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=1&version=31&context=verse)
[ Elijah Taken Up to Heaven ] When the LORD was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal.





2 Kings 2: 9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, "Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?" "Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit," Elisha replied.
2 Kings 2:8-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=8&end_verse=10&version=31&context=context) (in Context) 2 Kings 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




2 Kings 2:10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=10&version=31&context=verse)
"You have asked a difficult thing," Elijah said, "yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise not."
2 Kings 2: 9-11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&verse=9&end_verse=11&version=31&context=context) (in Context) 2 Kings 2 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=12&chapter=2&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)
It's the word shamayim according to my concordance.

Meaning:

1) heaven, heavens, sky

a) visible heavens, sky

1) as abode of the stars

2) as the visible universe, the sky, atmosphere, etc

b) Heaven (as the abode of God)

i dont know how i overlooked this thread
Mark 16:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=16&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
Mark 16:18-20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=16&verse=18&end_verse=20&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Mark 16 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=16&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


Luke 24:51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=51&version=31&context=verse)
While he was blessing them, he left them and was takenup into heaven.
Luke 24:50-52 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&verse=50&end_verse=52&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Luke 24 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=24&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)

ouranos

1) the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it

a) the universe, the world

b) the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced

c) the sidereal or starry heavens

2) the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings




Luke 9:51 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=9&verse=51&version=31&context=verse)
[ Samaritan Opposition ] As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem.
Luke 9:50-52 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=9&verse=50&end_verse=52&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Luke 9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=9&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




analēmpsis


1) a taking up

The word is translated as ascension, taking up, received up. The word heaven is an addition of the NIV - the word analēmpsis is used here but not ouranos.

And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he steadfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, (KJV)

As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. (NIV)



Acts 1:9 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=9&version=31&context=verse)
After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
Acts 1:8-10 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=8&end_verse=10&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Acts 1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)




Acts 1:11 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=11&version=31&context=verse)
"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
Acts 1:10-12 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&verse=10&end_verse=12&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Acts 1 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=51&chapter=1&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


Exodus 14:19 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=19&version=31&context=verse)
Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them,
Exodus 14:18-20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=18&end_verse=20&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Exodus 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter)


Exodus 14:20 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=20&version=31&context=verse)
coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.
Exodus 14:19-21 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&verse=19&end_verse=21&version=31&context=context) (in Context) Exodus 14 (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=2&chapter=14&version=31&context=chapter) (Whole Chapter) .


http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=107192
THE HONORABLE LOUIS FARRAKHAN SAYS WE WILL SEE THEM IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS
3foSSjPu-f0&start=35

PROOF OF THE NEW SIGHTINGS
wshhVYIAW66j0ci9k3D7

Extra-Dimensional Beings.. Makes me wonder if the depictions of an unseen God shining on his different vessels as he spoke are possibly one and the same,


http://sljglobal.wikispaces.com/file/view/moses.jpg/41439167/moses.jpg




also if the communications were telepathic.

http://sonnietrotter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/god.gif

I don't really know where this conversation is going, nor do I believe any particular event is supposed to happen, but I do enjoy philosophizing over ancient history and it's effect on the future. Some things on my mind today:

1. What if God is an (Extra-Terrestrial / Extra Dimensional) being?
2. Did God communicate to Moses and his prophets through telepathy?
3. Does prayer/meditation connect us to an ether that allow us to plug into a higher intelligence?
4. Is this intelligence a collective or a single power?
5. Did Jesus really ascend into the heavens?
6. Is this ascension related to an extra-dimensional presence?
7. If so, could this mean God is an extra-dimensional being?
8a. 2 Kings 2:11 describes a scene where Elijah was taken up in a whirlwind.
8b. Genesis 5:24 tells of a man named Enoch, who walked with God for 300 years, and then God simply took him. He was no more after that. Are these related to an interdimensional presence?

9. Is possible that we are higher dimensional beings?
10. Is the second coming of Christ simply this big UFO invasion described as flaming chariots?

11. What about the "stargate" theory? Are there "wormholes" or other anomalies that allow travel through the far reaches of space faster and easier than the ways we've attempted through our space programs?

Let's talk about Moses again.. Assuming any of these speculations hold weight,

12. were these Extra-Dimensional(s) guiding Moses through the desert?
(By cloud in the day / Pillar of Fire by night)
Presuming "yes", certainly they had the technology to know where under water reservoirs were during the Exodus.

13. In addition, the parting of the Red Sea/Reed Sea could be an anomaly manufactured by the presence of these Beings.

14. The 10th Dimension; does it exist?
XjsgoXvnStY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjsgoXvnStY&feature=player_embedded

We know our universe exists and we know that life on this planet exists in abundance. We also have a reasonable certainty that there are many planets similar to ours in other galactic solar systems that could have life on them.

Not saying I buy into any of this shit, but understanding the possibilities excites the mental fruit of my loins. Thoughts?
Looking through this lens changes a lot of previous notions.

Fatal Guillotine
04-24-2011, 01:06 PM
is this a question?

TheBoarzHeadBoy
04-24-2011, 05:08 PM
It's just wishful thinking.

No one wants to die. We have too many reasons to live. So wishful thinking gave us a dream of a perfect life. Then someone said "but what if it is real?" Then someone said "It is real."

Eventually someone said "It is real, but we aren't all going there..."

And everyone was again terrified at the thought of losing their family members forever. Then this wretched human being told them that a being called God, the Creator himself, had spoken through HIM. He told the people that if they did what he said they'd go to heaven. And they told him to screw himself and they didn't believe him. But then people died and their bodies were burned and buried with the ancient customs and someone said "what if he's right?"

And they submitted to that evil man. Their wishful thinking had made them slaves. Eventually when he became too terrible not going to heaven was not punishment enough so a new man carrying on the tradition spoke of a place of eternal punishment and the people, scared and confused and without the guiding hand of science followed him into a hell on earth in hopes that no hell awaited them in death.

That my brothers is the tragedy called Religion.

There is no afterlife, no heaven, no hell, no creator, no master plan. Just reality. It's not easy, but its genuine article. Sometimes its hard to get by and we need to be open to the idea that we only have each other to get us through it, but other times life is wonderful. Not because of some bastard in the sky called God. No, he is an invention of man. Every theist who ever lived created their God in their own image.

The world was a terrible place, but it's better now and it will keep getting better if we try to set our differences aside and abandon all these primitive devilish behaviors like worship. It's disgusting, and sad.

Fatal Guillotine
04-24-2011, 06:40 PM
the notion of a spirit world has been around for some time. shamans who have existed for centuries believed in spirits and our abilities to communicate with them. the thought of us being able to share life in a different world could have emanated from there.

They don't necessarily believe in heaven though. Christians believe in Heaven because it is written about in the Bible. Not all religions believe in Heaven and Hell. Buddhism, Hare Krishna and Hinduism, for example, believe in reincarnation.

The words used in the bible pertaining to Hell are sheol, geenna and hades.

Jesus said:

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." (NIV)

Hell in this passage is geenna.

geenna = Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

TheBoarzHeadBoy
04-24-2011, 11:38 PM
They don't necessarily believe in heaven though. Christians believe in Heaven because it is written about in the Bible. Not all religions believe in Heaven and Hell. Buddhism, Hare Krishna and Hinduism, for example, believe in reincarnation.

The words used in the bible pertaining to Hell are sheol, geenna and hades.

Jesus said:

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell." (NIV)

Hell in this passage is geenna.

geenna = Hell is the place of the future punishment call "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire". This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.

Actually I believe the implication is

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into the grave of criminals."

Gehenna is just pointing out a dishonorable death awaits lawbreakers. There is no hard implication of Heaven or hell in Judaism until the Romans got their hands on it and made Christianity. The only implication of burning is because the bodies of criminals and garbage were burned together. Jews don't believe in an afterlife, God will reward or punish you in the here and now.

Sheol means "the grave" and just refers to death in general.

"I shall go down to my son a mourner unto the grave (Sheol)" (Genesis 37:35)

Job 7:9 "Just as a cloud dissipates and vanishes, those who go down to the grave (Sheol) will not come back."

Psalm 18:5-7 "The breakers of death surged round about me; the menacing floods terrified me. The cords of the grave (Sheol) tightened; the snares of death lay in wait for me. In my distress I called out: LORD! I cried out to my G-d. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry to him reached his ears.

[That last one is more poetic and should be understood as metaphorical.]

Psalm 86:13: "Your love for me is great; you have rescued me from the depths of the grave (Sheol)." [ie. You really love me, you saved my life.]

Psalm 139:8: "If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in the grave (Sheol), behold, You are there."

[The Jews believed that the God(s) lived in the sky, so Heaven means the literally sky. "Ascending to Heaven" might as well mean "climb the highest mountain" as demonstrated by the Prophets.]

Jonah 2:2: "...Out of the belly of the grave (Sheol) I cried, And You heard my voice."

Proverbs 30:16:"The grave (Sheol) is never satiated..."


I also believe the Greek concept "Underworld" originally refers to the Americas; a world beneath the world that lies beyond the Atlantic Ocean. Odysseus is supposed to have sailed the Atlantic Ocean following the setting sun... into the West. The place he traveled to was literal. The Islands of the Blessed are the West Indies, etc. As no one had been there in hundreds of years by the time it was recorded in writing, the account had become more mythical.

Heaven and Hell are probably just misunderstandings brought on by the ages.

RzaRectum
04-25-2011, 01:56 AM
is this a question?
Are you saying you have the answers?

Fatal Guillotine
04-25-2011, 11:56 AM
Actually I believe the implication is

"If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into the grave of criminals."

Gehenna is just pointing out a dishonorable death awaits lawbreakers. There is no hard implication of Heaven or hell in Judaism until the Romans got their hands on it and made Christianity. The only implication of burning is because the bodies of criminals and garbage were burned together. Jews don't believe in an afterlife, God will reward or punish you in the here and now.

Sheol means "the grave" and just refers to death in general.

"I shall go down to my son a mourner unto the grave (Sheol)" (Genesis 37:35)

Job 7:9 "Just as a cloud dissipates and vanishes, those who go down to the grave (Sheol) will not come back."

Psalm 18:5-7 "The breakers of death surged round about me; the menacing floods terrified me. The cords of the grave (Sheol) tightened; the snares of death lay in wait for me. In my distress I called out: LORD! I cried out to my G-d. From his temple he heard my voice; my cry to him reached his ears.

[That last one is more poetic and should be understood as metaphorical.]

Psalm 86:13: "Your love for me is great; you have rescued me from the depths of the grave (Sheol)." [ie. You really love me, you saved my life.]

Psalm 139:8: "If I ascend to heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in the grave (Sheol), behold, You are there."

[The Jews believed that the God(s) lived in the sky, so Heaven means the literally sky. "Ascending to Heaven" might as well mean "climb the highest mountain" as demonstrated by the Prophets.]

Jonah 2:2: "...Out of the belly of the grave (Sheol) I cried, And You heard my voice."

Proverbs 30:16:"The grave (Sheol) is never satiated..."


I also believe the Greek concept "Underworld" originally refers to the Americas; a world beneath the world that lies beyond the Atlantic Ocean. Odysseus is supposed to have sailed the Atlantic Ocean following the setting sun... into the West. The place he traveled to was literal. The Islands of the Blessed are the West Indies, etc. As no one had been there in hundreds of years by the time it was recorded in writing, the account had become more mythical.

Heaven and Hell are probably just misunderstandings brought on by the ages.



Re: Gehenna - yes that would be a literal interpretation based on the etymology of the word geenna.

Why would you care where your physical body ends up when you're dead? It must be referring to the soul which lives on after death. Afterall, everyone will experience a physical death of their body - so what does it matter if your body ends up in the rubbish heap on in a fancy tomb? Why would it cause you to repent?

However, Jesus does indicate that there will be judgement after death and two ultimate destinations for the souls of the saved and unsaved - e.g. the parable of Lazarus in Luke 16:




The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day.

20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried.

23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side.

24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Fatal Guillotine
04-28-2011, 01:25 PM
???

RzaRectum
04-28-2011, 01:40 PM
is this a question?
Not trying to read between the lines on this one. What are you trying to say?

Fatal Guillotine
04-28-2011, 01:54 PM
i think ive stated it

Fatal Guillotine
05-28-2011, 01:54 PM
bump

RzaRectum
05-30-2011, 01:28 AM
is this a question?

Is what a question?

Fatal Guillotine
05-30-2011, 04:38 PM
what exactly is it that YOU wanna know pertaining to this subject?

RzaRectum
05-31-2011, 01:54 AM
I think I've stated it.

RUSHING PLATYPUS
05-31-2011, 10:47 AM
Some people are just so afraid of the end of their existence that they have to believe it won't happen. I would say the combination of fear, and arrogance created these theories. Just my opinion.

TSA
05-31-2011, 11:08 AM
^agree.

WARPATH
05-31-2011, 11:23 AM
Some people are just so afraid of the end of their existence that they have to believe it won't happen. I would say the combination of fear, and arrogance created these theories. Just my opinion.

^agree.

Some people still believe in after life with no fear of dying.

It can also be said that the same fear and arrogance of people that believe they won't cease to exist at death can be applied to the people that believe they won't have to answer to a creator-god-most high-allah-buddy jesus-etc. at death.

RUSHING PLATYPUS
05-31-2011, 12:38 PM
Some people still believe in after life with no fear of dying.

Sure they do, but I was really talking about how the beliefs they follow were first introduced and why.

LORD NOSE
11-17-2011, 07:00 PM
up