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Koolish
11-20-2007, 05:38 PM
I have yet to find a good, solid answer.

Here is my theory as to what it is:

Three parts:
1.) Sounds of instruments
2.) Understanding of ideas (lyrics)
3.) Individual response (your "favorite" song, line, part etc.)

Supposedly music does not exist in nature, it is completely a man made entity.

Music though is something we inherently understand and do not really question, but I have begun to question what exactly it is.

Is it solid, or is it composed of parts?

Here's another theory:

Good music: Music that specifically responds to an individual's ideas.
Bad music: Music that is created to respond to anyone's ideas, mainly for the purpose of selling better.

JackOfHearts
11-20-2007, 05:49 PM
there is no 'bad music' ...its opinion, if someone is making music there is someone hu will enjoy it. saying that someone who makes music for the purpose of selling is bad music is ridiculous, there is no such thing as good and bad music just opinions. i can say the wu tang is good music and mcfly r bad.....thats an opinion not a concept.

JackOfHearts
11-20-2007, 05:50 PM
i cudve phrased that better...i didnt....so fuck it

LORD NOSE
11-20-2007, 06:17 PM
there is no 'bad music' ...its opinion, if someone is making music there is someone hu will enjoy it. saying that someone who makes music for the purpose of selling is bad music is ridiculous, there is no such thing as good and bad music just opinions. i can say the wu tang is good music and mcfly r bad.....thats an opinion not a concept.

do you know what a bad job is ?

when someone does a bad job......

if you don't know how to play a guitar and you pick it up and sing a song while strumming the guitar........

people listening might clap and even enjoy listening to someone who doesn't know how to play that guiatar but .....that only means that they don't know any better - maybe they never heard how a real guitarist gets down


maybe they grow old listening to and enjoying the sound of someone who doesn't know what they are doing to the point that when they do hear something "good", they cannot relate


there is such thing as Bad Music

everyone doesn't vibrate on the same level

Koolish
11-20-2007, 06:45 PM
there is no 'bad music' ...its opinion, if someone is making music there is someone hu will enjoy it. saying that someone who makes music for the purpose of selling is bad music is ridiculous, there is no such thing as good and bad music just opinions. i can say the wu tang is good music and mcfly r bad.....thats an opinion not a concept.
what i'm saying is certain music is created to sell to much more people than those who would originally be interested in the specific genre it comes from.

for example, look at 50 cent. people who listen to Hip Hop are generally listening to it because the issues it speaks on, or just the art form resonates greatly with their personality. 50 cent makes his music so that even if you didn't like Hip Hop at first, or come from the streets, you can still buy this music and claim to be a rap fan.

Immortal Technique doesn't sell as well as 50 cent, but he has more artistic credibility. his music is crafted for those who are specifically interested in the finer points of the art form, whereas 50 cent's music is created to simply be catchy and to become hits. a hit means a well selling record.

basically, my statement is that music does not exist for the sole purpose of being sold. artists who make music for the sole purpose of being sold are not artists, they are greedy. so i can understand your point, being that there is no concept of bad or good in music. but if there were, i believe music to be an art, not a commodity. those who do not treat it as art are bad artists and cannot produce good music.

huggah answered the question, if we're going to get an objective view of music we need more posts like that.

Koolish
11-20-2007, 06:46 PM
do you know what a bad job is ?

when someone does a bad job......

if you don't know how to play a guitar and you pick it up and sing a song while strumming the guitar........

people listening might clap and even enjoy listening to someone who doesn't know how to play that guiatar but .....that only means that they don't know any better - maybe they never heard how a real guitarist gets down


maybe they grow old listening to and enjoying the sound of someone who doesn't know what they are doing to the point that when they do hear something "good", they cannot relate


there is such thing as Bad Music

everyone doesn't vibrate on the same level

i didn't know most of the hits on the countdown were considered bad music until i researched deeper into true artists and albums.

most people don't have time to do that either.

music is structured sounds that appeal to humans
then what makes lyrics so important?

JackOfHearts
11-20-2007, 07:33 PM
do you know what a bad job is ?

when someone does a bad job......

if you don't know how to play a guitar and you pick it up and sing a song while strumming the guitar........

people listening might clap and even enjoy listening to someone who doesn't know how to play that guiatar but .....that only means that they don't know any better - maybe they never heard how a real guitarist gets down


maybe they grow old listening to and enjoying the sound of someone who doesn't know what they are doing to the point that when they do hear something "good", they cannot relate


there is such thing as Bad Music

everyone doesn't vibrate on the same level

im a barman...people say thats a shit job but i really enjoy it....is it bad? to some yes, to me no.

a few people think jimi hendrix was a racket, others the best guitarist in the world. is he bad? is he good? you cant measure it because good and bad is based on people's opinions. thats why you have judges for pop shows etc the closest you can come to saying whether something is good and bad is by analyzing people's opinions....and opinions cant be certified as 'correct' all the time.

JackOfHearts
11-20-2007, 07:37 PM
urgh im strayin off the poor lads original question

V4D3R
11-20-2007, 10:18 PM
My definition of music is how one expresses what the soul can't put into words.


Wasen't that poetic?

LORD NOSE
11-20-2007, 10:35 PM
im a barman...people say thats a shit job but i really enjoy it....is it bad? to some yes, to me no.

a few people think jimi hendrix was a racket, others the best guitarist in the world. is he bad? is he good? you cant measure it because good and bad is based on people's opinions. thats why you have judges for pop shows etc the closest you can come to saying whether something is good and bad is by analyzing people's opinions....and opinions cant be certified as 'correct' all the time.

Jimi was "out of the norm" and took guitar playing to a level way over many peoples heads - majority of the people don't think, they just follow whats popular and they do what others are doing - very few walk a different walk, because they are on a higher level of understanding -

the majority would say "its all about opinion"
but the minority knows better

LORD NOSE
11-20-2007, 10:40 PM
what i'm saying is certain music is created to sell to much more people than those who would originally be interested in the specific genre it comes from.

for example, look at 50 cent. people who listen to Hip Hop are generally listening to it because the issues it speaks on, or just the art form resonates greatly with their personality. 50 cent makes his music so that even if you didn't like Hip Hop at first, or come from the streets, you can still buy this music and claim to be a rap fan.

Immortal Technique doesn't sell as well as 50 cent, but he has more artistic credibility. his music is crafted for those who are specifically interested in the finer points of the art form, whereas 50 cent's music is created to simply be catchy and to become hits. a hit means a well selling record.

basically, my statement is that music does not exist for the sole purpose of being sold. artists who make music for the sole purpose of being sold are not artists, they are greedy. so i can understand your point, being that there is no concept of bad or good in music. but if there were, i believe music to be an art, not a commodity. those who do not treat it as art are bad artists and cannot produce good music.

huggah answered the question, if we're going to get an objective view of music we need more posts like that.

people think that just because an artist spits truth and conscious lyrics over beats that this artist is Good - Hip Hop is so misunderstood by those who haven't got the blueprint - even KRS 1 said he'd rather listen to 50 cents

yes 50 made candy shop and other popular club tunes to make money
but he knows
and this comes across in his expression - we know whats up cause we can hear it - alot of those underground so called conscious "rappers" are wack as hell - no style - wack beats - but they use meaningless fancy sounding poetic words to swoon their audience into "DIGGIN" them.

They don't fool us though

Koolish
11-21-2007, 12:17 PM
you can have music without lyrics, but you can't have music without structured sounds.



i listen to a lot of electronic music that has no words... just music. why are lyrics so important to you?
individuality.

"good" music all comes down to individuality, which means little more than your own opinion. everyone makes an individual decision each time they listen to music to either enjoy or dislike it based on their personality.

a week ago i asked a friend why he didn't like this one bad, he told me it was because their music was gay. and i understood what he meant perfectly.

Urban_Journalz
11-22-2007, 12:32 AM
Music is a lot like love, in the sense that it can never be accurately described in any language. I think that's one of the main reasons people call it "The Universal Language".

Bad music is just noise and shouldn't even be mentioned in the category of Music.

We all know what it is though. It's what makes us forget about everything and everyone. Reminds of that no matter how fucked up the world is, there's still an abundance of good beauty left in it.

Koolish
11-22-2007, 02:54 PM
^ this post was the reason i created this topic.

KERZO
11-23-2007, 07:31 AM
good question koolish....of course music exists in nature....nature is music...even sounds make by trees, birds or even 'ground resonance' can all be used to create a musical piece...

all humans do is alter and change the way the sounds are composed to make music they way they want to hear it.

music affects people in different ways. some people dont really listen to music or actively seek it and they are the ones who never get that tingling sensation down they're spine when they hear music.

ive made music since i was a kid, i play guitar,drums,bass,piano...and in later years i create drum & bass and hip-hop beats so ive always had an active role in music...i listen to loads of different styles of music so i understand how they all relate.

RZA is a producer who understands this and thats why he makes really good beats both in hip-hop and in other projects like afro samurai.

but people have different views and some will see mine as complete nonsense..thats the fun i guess,haha ^O^

SID
11-23-2007, 08:40 AM
Music is Life!!

Koolish
11-23-2007, 10:05 AM
but there's no such thing as "good" music. it's always possible to find someone who thinks the music you like sucks... who's wrong? neither, because judging the quality of music on an individual basis is entirely subjective.

once you set criteria to judge music by (for example, beats that include a snare on the 2nd and 4th beat or no live instrumentation or only rapping and no singing...) you're no longer talking about music in the broad sense, but just a subset of all the types of sounds that could qualify as music.
when i started to get deeper into Hip Hop i was overloaded with information about how all the music i thought was good was actually crap, and i should turn away and go over to the light side.

so basically from square one i've had this idea of good vs. bad in music.

but shit, i'm still learning.

Urban_Journalz
11-23-2007, 01:25 PM
but there's no such thing as "good" music. it's always possible to find someone who thinks the music you like sucks... who's wrong? neither, because judging the quality of music on an individual basis is entirely subjective.

once you set criteria to judge music by (for example, beats that include a snare on the 2nd and 4th beat or no live instrumentation or only rapping and no singing...) you're no longer talking about music in the broad sense, but just a subset of all the types of sounds that could qualify as music.

No.

Just like there's good and bad people, places, smells and tastes, there also exists bad music. Just because someone actually LIKES the bad music, doesn't make it good.

All that really means, is that some people like good music, and other people like bullshit/noise.

You can't stand flatfoot with a straight face and say, "Just because you don't like Soulja Boy, doesn't mean that it's bad music." I mean, do you HEAR that shit?!:r

Koolish
11-23-2007, 03:35 PM
some of us may know that in rock music there's this new thing called "emo". if you know what the trend is like, you won't think too highly of the music. but it's all music right?

so i asked my friend, who's really into rock, why emo music was so hated and is considered such shit. he said it's because all they sing about is how their life sucks and how depressed they feel and they want to kill themselves. really terrible content.

so basically, the reason soulja boy is considered a bad artist is because his content is not very intelligent. if you judge him on anything else, like rhythm, flow, catchiness, or club appeal he'd do fine.

it's certain criteria that makes or breaks an artist when it comes to judging their music.

once you set criteria to judge music by (for example, beats that include a snare on the 2nd and 4th beat or no live instrumentation or only rapping and no singing...) you're no longer talking about music in the broad sense, but just a subset of all the types of sounds that could qualify as music.

should the content of a song be judged as music, or set aside as "lyrics"?

THE W
11-23-2007, 04:46 PM
rhythmic sound.

Urban_Journalz
11-23-2007, 05:57 PM
I go by two things.

Lyricism and musicianship.

If either one of these is lacking, then the song and the artist or artists are also lacking.

There's a reason why The Temptations, Marvin Gaye and Earth, Wind & Fire can still be heard today. It's because they had and equal balance of musicianship and lyrics. That's what makes good music.

To add a third element, longevity. There's no way in hell anyone will be playing Soulja Boy 40 years down the road, because the bottom line is that so-called "music" has NO substance to it. Therefore, it won't last. That kind of music is made for the moment. A moment and a fleeting moment at that.

Koolish
11-23-2007, 08:52 PM
that's up to you of course -- it depends on what purpose you want the music to serve. if it's to dance to, then lyrics are usually less important than the rhythm... but even that gets flipped upside-down when you hear a song like daft punk's "television rules the nation" which sounds like a dance song but actually functions more on a thought-provoking level because of the message in the song (in spite of the fact that it's just one line looped over and over).

also if you listen to a song like cobra clutch (or most of supreme clientele for that matter) ghost says a lot of words but the content of what he's saying really takes a backseat to the musical qualities in his delivery -- his flow, the rhyme scheme, the way he'll occasionally change the pitch of his voice.
"Mics are writin' pool, now, I'm into Iron Duals
Turn-ons the Earth's whoopee, she out of law school"

so if lyrics are essential then how come there aren't any in beethoven, mozart etc?
they're part of a different musical genre. lyrics are essential depending on the genre.

i have listened to one of beethoven's symphonies where a huge ass choir comes in bellowing some german (i assume).

Urban_Journalz
11-24-2007, 11:03 AM
so if lyrics are essential then how come there aren't any in beethoven, mozart etc?

In case you overlooked, I said, "Because that music has no substance to it." Last time I checked, I was talking about Hip-Hop, but I'm not surprised you threw that out there, because it's disgustingly common-place behavior for someone who's losing an arguement to bring in something completely out of left-field.

If the conversation had been about movies, and I said that good writers were a major part of a good movie, you would've said, "So, why is Charlie Chaplin so popular?" I know your breed dude, and it's a sickley one.

SG
09-09-2010, 11:18 AM
Music is Life!!

Why do you say "Music is Life".....I'm asking so I can learn!

Uncle Steezo
09-09-2010, 09:48 PM
music is not exclusive to humans. bird songs come to mind.

to me, music is a tonal expression of emotion.

Professor Poopsnagle
09-09-2010, 10:05 PM
An art form of rhythmic sounds.

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SG
09-10-2010, 12:33 AM
music is not exclusive to humans. bird songs come to mind.

to me, music is a tonal expression of emotion.

You got was of opening doors, like the post.

His post below caught my attention. In the Rastafari View of Marcus Garvey....they say "Culture is a way of life" and then followed by "Music is a way of Life".

Just wanted to see what was SID reason behind his post.

Music is Life!!

Mumm Ra
09-10-2010, 07:21 AM
music could be life in the sense music is vibrations
and everything down to a molecular level is vibrating

but i think music is more than a simple vibration - that i would just call sound

...

but then when you put those vibrations in an order you get music, and life requires a certain order(s) (laws)
so life is like the physical manifestation of subatomic music n shit nahmean
on some maat steez

pro.Graveface
09-11-2010, 06:21 AM
vibrationz!!! but from the heart!!! tru music! 1 gots to get it in line with our mother Earth and let it go, the truth will reveal!
frequenty is amount of vibrationz in time!

billyanalogue
09-15-2010, 04:35 AM
Music is the key to the future of intergallactic space travel

Fatal Guillotine
06-09-2012, 01:24 PM
up

Big Smokes
06-09-2012, 01:53 PM
expression?

NAH001
06-09-2012, 03:49 PM
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