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WARPATH
11-21-2007, 11:09 AM
*by Jaqueline Keeler*



I celebrate the holiday of Thanksgiving. This may surprise those people who wonder what Native Americans think of this official U.S. celebration of the survival of early arrivals in a European invasion that culminated in the death of 10 to 30 million native people.

Thanksgiving to me has never been about Pilgrims. When I was six, my mother, a woman of the Dineh nation, told my sister and me not to sing "Land of the Pilgrim's pride" in "America the Beautiful." Our people, she said, had been here much longer and taken much better care of the land. We were to sing "Land of the Indian's pride" instead.

I was proud to sing the new lyrics in school, but I sang softly. It was enough for me to know the difference. At six, I felt I had learned something very important. As a child of a Native American family, you are part of a very select group of survivors, and I learned that my family possessed some "inside" knowledge of what really happened when those poor, tired masses came to our homes.

When the Pilgrims came to Plymouth Rock, they were poor and hungry -- half of them died within a few months from disease and hunger. When Squanto, a Wampanoag man, found them, they were in a pitiful state. He spoke English, having traveled to Europe, and took pity on them. Their English crops had failed. The native people fed them through the winter and taught them how to grow their food.

These were not merely "friendly Indians." They had already experienced European slave traders raiding their villages for a hundred years or so, and they were wary -- but it was their way to give freely to those who had nothing. Among many of our peoples, showing that you can give without holding back is the way to earn respect. Among the Dakota, my father's people, they say, when asked to give, "Are we not Dakota and alive?" It was believed that by giving there would be enough for all -- the exact opposite of the system we live in now, which is based on selling, not giving.

To the Pilgrims, and most English and European peoples, the Wampanoags were heathens, and of the Devil. They saw Squanto not as an equal but as an instrument of their God to help his chosen people, themselves.

Since that initial sharing, Native American food has spread around the world. Nearly 70 percent of all crops grown today were originally cultivated by Native American peoples. I sometimes wonder what they ate in Europe before they met us. Spaghetti without tomatoes? Meat and potatoes without potatoes? And at the "first Thanksgiving" the Wampanoags provided most of the food -- and signed a treaty granting Pilgrims the right to the land at Plymouth, the real reason for the first Thanksgiving.

What did the Europeans give in return? Within 20 years European disease and treachery had decimated the Wampanoags. Most diseases then came from animals that Europeans had domesticated. Cowpox from cows led to smallpox, one of the great killers of our people, spread through gifts of blankets used by infected Europeans. Some estimate that diseases accounted for a death toll reaching 90 percent in some Native American communities. By 1623, Mather the elder, a Pilgrim leader, was giving thanks to his God for destroying the heathen savages to make way "for a better growth," meaning his people.

In stories told by the Dakota people, an evil person always keeps his or her heart in a secret place separate from the body. The hero must find that secret place and destroy the heart in order to stop the evil.

I see, in the "First Thanksgiving" story, a hidden Pilgrim heart. The story of that heart is the real tale than needs to be told. What did it hold? Bigotry, hatred, greed, self-righteousness? We have seen the evil that it caused in the 350 years since. Genocide, environmental devastation, poverty, world wars, racism.

Where is the hero who will destroy that heart of evil? I believe it must be each of us. Indeed, when I give thanks this Thursday and I cook my native food, I will be thinking of this hidden heart and how my ancestors survived the evil it caused.

Because if we can survive, with our ability to share and to give intact, then the evil and the good will that met that Thanksgiving day in the land of the Wampanoag will have come full circle.

And the healing can begin.

Jacqueline Keeler is a member of the Dineh Nation and the Yankton Dakota Sioux. Her work has appeared in Winds of Change, an American Indian journal

WARPATH
11-21-2007, 12:40 PM
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j113/Charging_Soldier/57cabf2da24bf53b5f2f289046351b1d.jpghttp://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm15aG90Y29tbWVudHMuY29tL2dyYXBoaW NzLnBocD9pbmRleD1iZXN0

EAGLE EYE
11-21-2007, 01:17 PM
2xqQHhNDy6U

TSA
11-21-2007, 01:40 PM
slippy, idk how far-fetched this may seem but as a native do you think it's possible that all the surviving tribes of the US unite as one instead of being so fractured

idk, just a thought

WARPATH
11-21-2007, 02:17 PM
slippy, idk how far-fetched this may seem but as a native do you think it's possible that all the surviving tribes of the US unite as one instead of being so fractured

idk, just a thought

I think anythings possible, but not likely- primarily based on same ignorance that keeps all races fighting.

Some tribes have been feuding since before white settlers, for various reasons.


hahaha at the video. i imagine all the faceless wu fans on this site have a pony tail like that dude.

CS, thanks for sharing the article. i imagine that to you, celebrating thanksgiving would be like celebrating the holocaust in germany.

do you agree with everything the author wrote?


I posted it the article mainly for some of the historical facts and to outline the cultural differences between people. Although this lady that wrote this is one of my Dakota counterparts, I can't say I have the same perspective in regards to evil people.

TSA
11-21-2007, 04:59 PM
hahaha at the video. i imagine all the faceless wu fans on this site have a pony tail like that dude.

CS, thanks for sharing the article. i imagine that to you, celebrating thanksgiving would be like celebrating the holocaust in germany.

do you agree with everything the author wrote?
from the last time i checked nobodies seen your face, but im probably wrong

TSA
11-21-2007, 08:45 PM
oh, i though he found some random person, didn't know

V4D3R
11-21-2007, 09:04 PM
This is what I got to say about it. Fuck the Jewish people crying about how 6 million of them died in the Holocaust.

You dont here Native Americans crying about the Invasion. It still is an invasion.

V4D3R
11-21-2007, 09:07 PM
slippy, idk how far-fetched this may seem but as a native do you think it's possible that all the surviving tribes of the US unite as one instead of being so fractured

idk, just a thought


http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44941

Olive Oil Goombah
11-23-2007, 11:03 AM
This is what I got to say about it. Fuck the Jewish people crying about how 6 million of them died in the Holocaust.

You dont here Native Americans crying about the Invasion. It still is an invasion.

LEts put your people in extermination camps and see if you keep quiet.

Koolish
11-23-2007, 02:52 PM
my plan was that if i ever had enough money, i'd move my ass into the UK. i got roots there and the continent i live on is not my own.

"By 1623, Mather the elder, a Pilgrim leader, was giving thanks to his God for destroying the heathen savages to make way "for a better growth," meaning his people."

that's sickening.

V4D3R
11-23-2007, 04:46 PM
LEts put your people in extermination camps and see if you keep quiet.
My ancestors were called savages - but in reality - they had the first ever constitution and democracy in effect that brought nations together.

Another thing is you misunderstood me- I'm not anti-semitic, but you hear about the holocaust way more then you do the slaughter of the native people and the buffalo, beavers, land and resources. North-America celebrates this every year. Do we celebrate the holocaust?:nonono:

HANZO
11-23-2007, 04:53 PM
funny that no nation in the world would dare accept the killing of native americans as a genocide or watever, when its the clearest cut episode in history of an attempt to wipe out an entire race.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-24-2007, 05:38 PM
If the Europeans hadn't done it, whoever got their first would have. It was inevitable. Read Jared DIamonds, Guns, Germs, and Steel.

ALot of you really need to take a course or two in pre industrial history in the Far and Middle East

Kephrem
11-24-2007, 07:27 PM
If the Europeans hadn't done it, whoever got their first would have. It was inevitable.



Bullshit. It was you European devils that did it. Just face it and take responsibility like a noble devil.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-24-2007, 09:01 PM
Word. I Believe The Natives Were One Of The Civilizations That Had Living Right.

First of all, what you both fail to realize is that the Europeans themselves did not conquer the Natives so much as smallpox and the introduction of a new disease did. Had the smallpox epidemic not hit the native, than the Europeans probably do not conquer the land so easily, if at all.
Something like 90 percent of the population was wiped out from disease, a disease which would have been carried by anyone from the Eastern Hemisphere save aboriginial people in Australia.

So before everyone goes off on their white hating tantrums, look at the real facts and use some logic. A biased person cannot think with a clear mind.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-24-2007, 10:58 PM
im white for the record

and the native americans culture was far more advanced than ours

It doesn't matter if your white or not. White people can be misinformed about themselves easily. Far more advanced in what way??? They got a very late start and were behind in almost every category as the Eurasian cultures. Facts my friend....
Im not saying they were inferior.....

Just read Guns, Germs, and Steel and it will tell you what you need to know...Look it up online.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 01:32 AM
See, your mistaking me for thinking better technology means we are superior......Native culture was like that because they were behind in there progression, which followed a similar patter to Eastern progression. Not all advancement was bad.......People moved from bands of tribal societies to agricultural civilization because of technological and scientific advancents.....
Get off this Europeans are evil poison.....Europe after Rome wasn't shit until the Renaissance. It's domination is very recent history.

The Muslim world was far more advanced during the life of Muhammed until about the fifteenth or sixteenth century. Does that make North Africans and Middle Easterners evil??? The fact that they conquered Spain and wanted to push into France until they were stopped, or chose to stop??? The fact that the Ottomans for centuries invaded southeastern Europe and went almost as far north as Hungary??? And the sultan Bayezid vowed to feed his horse at the alter of St. Peters in Rome??? Or how about that the Turkic peoples aren't even native to the Anatolian peninsula(modern day Turkey)......Is that stealing someones land?

Is that evil Muslims???/ I dont think so. Its just the way the world is and has been since civilization sprang up out of the fertile crescent. And each group wants to put their own ethnocentric spin on whose fault was what and how they are the chosen people,

You need to expand your mind...

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 08:17 AM
First of all, what you both fail to realize is that the Europeans themselves did not conquer the Natives so much as smallpox and the introduction of a new disease did.

Disease carried by the European along with a mind full of hate, treachery, warfare, and devlishment.


So before everyone goes off on their white hating tantrums,


It was 'white hatred tantrums' against the worlds indigenous people that spawned global non-white hate towards you Europeans.


look at the real facts and use some logic.

These are the ''real facts''.


A biased person cannot think with a clear mind.


Of course an educated knowledagble person can. Because in this topic you're being judged based on past wicked actions that you've yet to recieve justice for.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 08:24 AM
They got a very late start and were behind in almost every category as the Eurasian cultures.


That they ''got a very late start'' is subjective. Your forefathers got a head start in destructive technology and foolishness. There was [is] nothing in Europe that rivals the Aztec, Maya, Incan temples, 'pyramids', as well as their astronomical, agricultural, architectural knowledge.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 08:49 AM
See, your mistaking me for thinking better technology means we are superior......


''Better technology'' for destructive purposes/agendas.

Native culture was like that because they were behind in there progression,


Europeans were actually behind in their humanity, a devolution of the species.


The Muslim world was far more advanced during the life of Muhammed until about the fifteenth or sixteenth century. Does that make North Africans and Middle Easterners evil???


Did the North Africans and Middle Easterners conquer the world with demonic hatred and indiscriminate warfare?


The fact that they conquered Spain and wanted to push into France until they were stopped, or chose to stop???


No one said that warfare itself is evil. The Muslims and Christians had beef. Understand the difference.

HANZO
11-25-2007, 09:06 AM
The Muslim world was far more advanced during the life of Muhammed until about the fifteenth or sixteenth century. Does that make North Africans and Middle Easterners evil??? The fact that they conquered Spain and wanted to push into France until they were stopped, or chose to stop??? The fact that the Ottomans for centuries invaded southeastern Europe and went almost as far north as Hungary??? And the sultan Bayezid vowed to feed his horse at the alter of St. Peters in Rome??? Or how about that the Turkic peoples aren't even native to the Anatolian peninsula(modern day Turkey)......Is that stealing someones land?

the ottomans reached vienna, and your right they beat the living shit out of europe for centuries, and also anatolia is not turkic land. but the ottomans or the turko-mongol hordes, didnt go to africa, australia or the americas to pick a fight and massacre weaker nations. it was a level playing field at the end of the day, europe had money and armies they just lost out. reason why they ran away.

also they didnt wipe out the cultures of the conquered ppl's. example the orthodox church still lives on, southeastern europeans still have their own languages they are christian and have their own culture. the turks could have easily jus wiped everyone out and moved a huge settlement of ppl from turkmenistan to live in serbia.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 10:31 AM
the ottomans reached vienna, and your right they beat the living shit out of europe for centuries, and also anatolia is not turkic land. but the ottomans or the turko-mongol hordes, didnt go to africa, australia or the americas to pick a fight and massacre weaker nations. it was a level playing field at the end of the day, europe had money and armies they just lost out. reason why they ran away.

also they didnt wipe out the cultures of the conquered ppl's. example the orthodox church still lives on, southeastern europeans still have their own languages they are christian and have their own culture. the turks could have easily jus wiped everyone out and moved a huge settlement of ppl from turkmenistan to live in serbia.

Kephrem.....Im not going to respond to empty words.

Han88, the Mongols ravaged Asia, burned libraries, books, documents and did it all out of greed and expansion. THeir whole thing was massacaring weaker nations. Warfare than and now was different but no less brutal. They are the reason why Baghdad went about 500 years without prominence from greatness until Saddam took over.
THe Ottomans DID indeed take Mamluk Egypt, which was a nation run by slaves who were brought to Egypt from Turcoman lands.
The Orthodox church lives on because the Ottomans could not wipe out the Europeans......they didnt have smallpox on their side. If they did, maybe they would have.
Plus don't forget that what the Ottomans had were Byzantine lands, and the native people of Anatolia were indeed kicked off their land....the Byzantines were also kicked out of COnstantinople, which was renamed Istanbul and raped of its previous Christian culture. The Hagia Sophia was originally a christian building.
THe Ottomans allowed small millet communities which were like religious
enclaves...reservations anyone??
Also, the Ottomans were not in a position to take all of Europe because they were a two front nation....Tamerlane almost took them out, much like he did much of the Middle East conquering for the sake of pillaging and looting.
North Africa and West AFrica were conquested by Muslim Arabians looking to spreaed Islam. ITs funny how Islamic intrusion on Europe is looked upon as justified. It shows the bias on this forum.

ITs all been done before, by many other cultures.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 10:46 AM
Kephrem.....Im not going to respond to empty words.



You mean words that are fully loaded because you lack the arsenal to deal with them.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 01:37 PM
You mean words that are fully loaded because you lack the arsenal to deal with them.

They are not loaded with anything but a young angry man's distorted opinion. Thus they are empty, and meaningless to those who seek truth.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 01:42 PM
They are not loaded with anything but a young angry man's distorted opinion. Thus they are empty, and meaningless to those who seek truth.


Show and Prove.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 04:53 PM
Back your sources up first, than I might entertain wasting my time on you, but I dont anticipate it. I've already met you many times before.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by NickyTooch
They got a very late start and were behind in almost every category as the Eurasian cultures. Facts my friend....

Let's start with this

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/baea2b35e6.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)


LINK (http://raceandstuff.phpbb-host.com/ftopic10915.php&highlight=pyramids)
Show us anything in Europe that compares to the architectual science above.

V4D3R
11-25-2007, 05:31 PM
Simply putting things into another perspective here- most early settlers from Europe were missionaries - pioneers/explores and lunatics.

The missionaries had a field day with innocent native children, the pioneer explorers had a field day with the land and resources and the lunatics - well their sons and daughters are still trying to justify their forefathers actions. Good thing the bloodlines are mixing up.


And Nicky-They did happen to have emptied every Asylum and prison in Europe to populate America.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 05:48 PM
Simply putting things into another perspective here- most early settlers from Europe were missionaries - pioneers/explores and lunatics.

The missionaries had a field day with innocent native children, the pioneer explorers had a field day with the land and resources and the lunatics - well their sons and daughters are still trying to justify their forefathers actions. Good thing the bloodlines are mixing up.


And Nicky-They did happen to have emptied every Asylum and prison in Europe to populate America.

Look, I'm not saying they didn't exploit them....all I'm saying is the no. 1 reason they did was smallpox and not just 'white' savagery. Kephrem, bless his soul, thinks I'm justifying something, when all I'm really doing is putting them in perspective. The Eastern Hemisphere was ahead of the West....showing those pictures of their religious temples shows they had, for comparisons sake, caught up to ancient Egypt and the pyramids......still very far behind were the East was.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 05:51 PM
Let's start with this

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/baea2b35e6.jpg (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)


LINK (http://raceandstuff.phpbb-host.com/ftopic10915.php&highlight=pyramids)
Show us anything in Europe that compares to the architectual science above.

Ah, so its a European issue you have. Like I said, I've met you before on this board many times.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 06:06 PM
Look, I'm not saying they didn't exploit them....

I should hope not because that would be the understatement of the millenium. Those devils raped, robbed, and murdered their way to power.


all I'm saying is the no. 1 reason they did was smallpox and not just 'white' savagery.

LOL @ ''smallpox''. Just call that shit what it was, the WHITE PLAGUE.

Hab 2:5 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:

The Eastern Hemisphere was ahead of the West....

Ahead in inventions of destruction, or in methods of navigation in order to destroy and exploit others. If not, show and prove.


showing those pictures of their religious temples

Doesn't matter they are, they serve as an ancient counter-point in STONE for your bullshit assertion that I quoted.


shows they had, for comparisons sake, caught up to ancient Egypt and the pyramids......

Who said that they ''caught up''? You Europeans have yet to ''catch up'' and can NEVER hope to build what ancient Kemet and Mesoamerica did.


still very far behind were the East was.

If it wasn't for you plague infested roaches looking to the far east [non whites] for trade you would've never ventured out of your caves and filthy disease ridden cities to conquer the world.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 06:11 PM
LOL...Niiiiice...ALright, obviously i see your agenda here, which was I originally did not want to waste my time with a bigot like yourself.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 06:13 PM
Ah, so its a European issue you have. Like I said, I've met you before on this board many times.




Actually it's a common European fool talking shit about white superiority and non-culpability issue I have.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 06:15 PM
Then you got me mistaken, or else your blinded by your hatred for white people because that not what I was preaching. I was relaying historical truth.

Kephrem
11-25-2007, 06:25 PM
LOL...Niiiiice...ALright, obviously i see your agenda here, which was I originally did not want to waste my time with a bigot like yourself.

Then you got me mistaken, or else your blinded by your hatred for white people because that not what I was preaching. I was relaying historical truth.


Your little buzz words lke 'bigot' and 'hatred for white people' have no effect here. Deal with your comment that I quoted and my rebuttal (http://www.wutang-corp.com/forum/showpost.php?p=964810&postcount=33) or concede that you're ignorant of true historical facts.

HANZO
11-25-2007, 06:26 PM
Kephrem.....Im not going to respond to empty words.

Han88, the Mongols ravaged Asia, burned libraries, books, documents and did it all out of greed and expansion. THeir whole thing was massacaring weaker nations. Warfare than and now was different but no less brutal. They are the reason why Baghdad went about 500 years without prominence from greatness until Saddam took over.
THe Ottomans DID indeed take Mamluk Egypt, which was a nation run by slaves who were brought to Egypt from Turcoman lands.
The Orthodox church lives on because the Ottomans could not wipe out the Europeans......they didnt have smallpox on their side. If they did, maybe they would have.
Plus don't forget that what the Ottomans had were Byzantine lands, and the native people of Anatolia were indeed kicked off their land....the Byzantines were also kicked out of COnstantinople, which was renamed Istanbul and raped of its previous Christian culture. The Hagia Sophia was originally a christian building.
THe Ottomans allowed small millet communities which were like religious
enclaves...reservations anyone??
Also, the Ottomans were not in a position to take all of Europe because they were a two front nation....Tamerlane almost took them out, much like he did much of the Middle East conquering for the sake of pillaging and looting.
North Africa and West AFrica were conquested by Muslim Arabians looking to spreaed Islam. ITs funny how Islamic intrusion on Europe is looked upon as justified. It shows the bias on this forum.

ITs all been done before, by many other cultures.

ottoman history from wikipedia. most of your statements are false, if you research the siege of constantinople you will learn that the sultan ordered the sacking of the city to stop after he saw the art and buildings being destroyed, also he didnt kick anyone out of their lands. greeks dnt live in anatolia now due to a population trade after world war 1.

tamerlane didnt aim to take out the ottomans he jus wanted them to act like true turks. tamerlane himself was a turk.

the ottomans didnt aim to wipe out any race, if you check a lot of the conquered ppls where incorporated into the army and government, they werent wiped out. ok the ones that were incorporated were muslim converts.

when you talk about the islamic invasions seem justified. but ok the muslims did kill a lot of europeans but also they gave something to the lands they conquered. they ruled the lands far better than how the europeans did.

also on the part where the mongols invaded weaker nations. since when where the tribal mongols more powerful than the chinese and persian empires???

Olive Oil Goombah
11-25-2007, 09:17 PM
ottoman history from wikipedia. most of your statements are false, if you research the siege of constantinople you will learn that the sultan ordered the sacking of the city to stop after he saw the art and buildings being destroyed, also he didnt kick anyone out of their lands. greeks dnt live in anatolia now due to a population trade after world war 1.

tamerlane didnt aim to take out the ottomans he jus wanted them to act like true turks. tamerlane himself was a turk.

the ottomans didnt aim to wipe out any race, if you check a lot of the conquered ppls where incorporated into the army and government, they werent wiped out. ok the ones that were incorporated were muslim converts.

when you talk about the islamic invasions seem justified. but ok the muslims did kill a lot of europeans but also they gave something to the lands they conquered. they ruled the lands far better than how the europeans did.

also on the part where the mongols invaded weaker nations. since when where the tribal mongols more powerful than the chinese and persian empires???

I never said the Ottomans were evil people...I'm saying the things you are accusing Europe of doing was done by others as well. Incorporating people into your culture under forced conversion and the janissary system and devshirme....do you think that is right??? Its similar to what America has done to the black slaves.

I know Tamerlane was a Turk, but Bayezid wanted to take over the Turkic emirates in East anatolia, and Tamerlane was not having that.
Im aware that Mehmed the Conqueror, a military genius, ordered the stop, but that does not hide the fact that ridded the city of Christian culture and took it from the Byzantines.
Anatolia was not originally Turkish, so obviously, they conquered it from someone. I'm not saying thats necessarily bad, it was just the way of the human race.

"when you talk about the islamic invasions seem justified. but ok the muslims did kill a lot of europeans but also they gave something to the lands they conquered. they ruled the lands far better than how the europeans did."

A Christian conqueror could say the same thing about the Americas.....Would you agree with them?

"also on the part where the mongols invaded weaker nations. since when where the tribal mongols more powerful than the chinese and persian empires???"

Because they were nomadic people, they had excellent proficiency on horseback, and were the innovators of many military strategies...They conquered for the main purpose of looting what they acquired, because being from the steppes of Central Asia, they did not possess great resources.
The Mongols controlled vast amounts of land under Chinggis Khan, and his sons.
Its similar to the Barbaric Tribes of Europe pillaging Rome.
Thats why I'm telling you all this time, there are correlations that can be made between all societies of people.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 01:48 AM
If the Europeans hadn't done it, whoever got their first would have. It was inevitable. Read Jared DIamonds, Guns, Germs, and Steel.

ALot of you really need to take a course or two in pre industrial history in the Far and Middle East

Inevitable? Can you see the future now too? Can you read my mind? Did you invent the flux capacitor?

I'm just saying, if your in the business of fortune telling then you really need to take some Indian studies courses.

A lot of European countries allied with Native Americans at first to fight other Native Americans and European countries. Who's to say they couldn't have lived in peace if they could've have settled their cultural differences? Who's to say any other country that came a long couldn't establish a peaceful existence with Native Americans?

First of all, what you both fail to realize is that the Europeans themselves did not conquer the Natives so much as smallpox and the introduction of a new disease did. Had the smallpox epidemic not hit the native, than the Europeans probably do not conquer the land so easily, if at all.
Something like 90 percent of the population was wiped out from disease, a disease which would have been carried by anyone from the Eastern Hemisphere save aboriginial people in Australia.

So before everyone goes off on their white hating tantrums, look at the real facts and use some logic. A biased person cannot think with a clear mind.

Indeed, but you give technology and Europeans too much credit.

1.The first peoples Europeans came across were really peaceful people. It was until they moved inwards in the continent when they found tribes with large militarys.

2. When "America" decided to expand west, they used their poor and Immigrants to fight Indians. These were people that had only seen an Indian in romanticized dime store novels. They weren't ready to take on Warrior Cultures head on. They were reduced to using Terrorist tactics- GERM WARFARE- in the form of Small pox.

3. Small Pox killed a lot of people. It didn't kill everyone. Natives have medicine and they use it to this day. You think everyone gets their treatment from Indian Health Services?

4. Terrorists were no match for the Natives on the battle field. Natives allowed them to build small Towns to encourage trade. Some of the tools and guns helped improve native lifestyle, but it didn't make them want to take on the white man's lifestyle or culture.

5. America was defeated on the battlefield by Native Americans plenty of times. It was through defeat that America made treaties for Peace. It was because Native Americans are driven for a peaceful existence that allowed whites to establish settlements in the Wilderness of North America. No amount of technology could've saved a young ignorant immigrant that didn't know where he was, from a Warrior who had mastered the elements. Fact is, people were shook when they saw a Warrior with a full headdress, because they knew they were dealing with WAR VETS. This is why Native Americans are labeled "SAVAGES" to this day. Truth be told, these were civil men and women who protected their children.

6. It was because tribes allowed white settlements for trade, that eventually gave whites an advantage and they were the ones that broke treaties and killed native women and children. This is the true history of America and the real savagery that took place.

7. Before and after treaties were broken and as late as the 1800's, Native American "tribes" would come together in the summer time in large organized groups, with enough soldiers to run a campaign against the new American government. At many different times the allied nomadic tribes came together with the question- Should they march on America? The answer was always no because unlike the Savage White Settlers, the civil would not but children in harms way, whether it be their own or their enemies.

8. It was because of the hardships that Native Children faced, that Natives fought. And- It was because of these hardships on the children that Natives quit fighting and eventually gave in to reservation life in hopes of a better future.

So before you decide to use words like conquer, you need to brush up on text book history. Native Americans were never conquered, only victims of terrorism.

It doesn't matter if your white or not. White people can be misinformed about themselves easily. Far more advanced in what way??? They got a very late start and were behind in almost every category as the Eurasian cultures. Facts my friend....
Im not saying they were inferior.....

Just read Guns, Germs, and Steel and it will tell you what you need to know...Look it up online.

Advanced:

Science
Mathematics
Agriculture
Government
Medicine
Astrology
Spirituality

You show me how Native Americans weren't advanced in any of these categories and I'll show you someone that needs to study. Fact is, wasteful technology is the only thing Europeans were able to master.

See, your mistaking me for thinking better technology means we are superior......Native culture was like that because they were behind in there progression, which followed a similar patter to Eastern progression. Not all advancement was bad.......People moved from bands of tribal societies to agricultural civilization because of technological and scientific advancents.....
Get off this Europeans are evil poison.....Europe after Rome wasn't shit until the Renaissance. It's domination is very recent history.

The Muslim world was far more advanced during the life of Muhammed until about the fifteenth or sixteenth century. Does that make North Africans and Middle Easterners evil??? The fact that they conquered Spain and wanted to push into France until they were stopped, or chose to stop??? The fact that the Ottomans for centuries invaded southeastern Europe and went almost as far north as Hungary??? And the sultan Bayezid vowed to feed his horse at the alter of St. Peters in Rome??? Or how about that the Turkic peoples aren't even native to the Anatolian peninsula(modern day Turkey)......Is that stealing someones land?

Is that evil Muslims???/ I dont think so. Its just the way the world is and has been since civilization sprang up out of the fertile crescent. And each group wants to put their own ethnocentric spin on whose fault was what and how they are the chosen people,

You need to expand your mind...

Native Americans had Agrarian societies. They weren't all small bands like you want to believe. You need to quit watching old Westerns and Mel Gibson movies start doing some real studying before you tell others they need to expand.

You seem to think technology that destroys the very world the gives us life is progression. This is regression. You will not be satisfied until your sippin your own shitty brown water and then come to the realization:

Oh shit, I done fucked up.

STYLE
11-26-2007, 02:57 AM
nobody mentioned the 1st act of bioterrorism-smallpox laced blankets.
but isn't the pattern the same as mid east, asia and africa? they come observe then steal and destroy.

and they scalped the natives to bring back proof of reaching india.-long silky black hair.

when they returned the natives returned the favor.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 03:02 AM
nobody mentioned the 1st act of bioterrorism-smallpox laced blankets.
but isn't the pattern the same as mid east, asia and africa? they come observe then steal and destroy.

and they scalped the natives to bring back proof of reaching india.-long silky black hair.

when they returned the natives returned the favor.

Nobody mentioned bio terrorism?......did you read my my post?

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 09:24 AM
In response to CS.....YOu made some valid points and I dont disagree with you, but this whole idea that I'm attacking Native culture is wrong.

Stylemaster- Smallpox laced blankets were not the first acts of bio-terrorism. During the plague, they used to catapults infected dead bodies over castle walls to infect defenders. There are earlier instances of this too.

One thing I will also say....I never said Natives did not have advanced technology. They were just behind what was going on in the East. You can say Europe and North Africa and Asia wasted their technology, but that same technology led to the innovation that have led us to be able to dispute this topic miles apart from eachother.

I don't see any of it as a 'wase' per se.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 09:26 AM
Native Warriors in full head dress would have frightened non warriors like the Viking raiders did in their time. Every culture has their warriors.

Unfortunately for them, it was a huge miscalculation on the part of the Indian federations not to invade America.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 09:55 AM
In response to CS.....YOu made some valid points and I dont disagree with you, but this whole idea that I'm attacking Native culture is wrong.

Stylemaster- Smallpox laced blankets were not the first acts of bio-terrorism. During the plague, they used to catapults infected dead bodies over castle walls to infect defenders. There are earlier instances of this too.

One thing I will also say....I never said Natives did not have advanced technology. They were just behind what was going on in the East. You can say Europe and North Africa and Asia wasted their technology, but that same technology led to the innovation that have led us to be able to dispute this topic miles apart from eachother.

I don't see any of it as a 'wase' per se.

You fail to acknowledge what natives contributed to the world in terms of science. You say your not attacking, but you certainly are asserting that Native Americans were primitive. Ignorance is bliss.

Native Warriors in full head dress would have frightened non warriors like the Viking raiders did in their time. Every culture has their warriors.

Unfortunately for them, it was a huge miscalculation on the part of the Indian federations not to invade America.

Or-

It was the difference between being Savage and Civil. :learning:

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 10:24 AM
And the Great Spirit is invading America for those past Indian Federations. Check out the news sometimes when you see those majestic fires, storms, floods, mudslides, tornadoes jacking up former indian territories and their current illegal alien squatter thieves.

It's something like what brother Garvey once said:

Look for me in the whirlwind or the storm, look for me all around you, for, with God's grace, I shall come and bring with me countless millions of black slaves who have died in America and the West Indies and the millions in Africa to aid you in the fight for Liberty, Freedom and Life.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 10:40 AM
And the Great Spirit is invading America for those past Indian Federations. Check out the news sometimes when you see those majestic fires, storms, floods, mudslides, tornadoes jacking up former indian territories and their current illegal alien squatter thieves.

It's something like what brother Garvey once said:

Look for me in the whirlwind or the storm, look for me all around you, for, with God's grace, I shall come and bring with me countless millions of black slaves who have died in America and the West Indies and the millions in Africa to aid you in the fight for Liberty, Freedom and Life.

This could be one interpretation of events.

But-

When one group of people fucks up we all suffer the consequences.

Hurricanes don't discriminate.

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 10:51 AM
These events are discriminating against the pocket and morale of the United States government.

btw I never mentioned ''hurricaines''

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 10:54 AM
When one group of people fucks up we all suffer the consequences.

This may be true historically and in some cases, but certainly not in all cases. It is considered an great honour to see the fall of ones enemies.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 11:07 AM
These events are discriminating against the pocket and morale of the United States government.

btw I never mentioned ''hurricaines''

You mentioned storms and whirl winds. You think God has a vendetta against the government? That's interesting.

This may be true historically and in some cases, but certainly not in all cases. It is considered an great honour to see the fall of ones enemies.

It's an even greater honor when enemies can find diplomatic solutions and become friends. :hippy:

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 01:46 PM
It's an even greater honor when enemies can find diplomatic solutions and become friends.



Never that. I'm not speaking of enemies within ones own people, I'm speaking about the eternal enemy. They have yet to recieve justice for the crimes their forefathers committed.


Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 04:19 PM
You fail to acknowledge what natives contributed to the world in terms of science. You say your not attacking, but you certainly are asserting that Native Americans were primitive. Ignorance is bliss.



Or-

It was the difference between being Savage and Civil. :learning:

You can piece any situation into ones own liking, just as you can twist most biblical and Qu'anic verses to fit your needs, as Sultan Bayezid did in justifying his murder of his brothers to acquire full possession of the Ottoman throne. Thats just one minor instance.

Certain aspects of Native culture may have been ahead like medicines, but I guess this is what I'm trying to say, since maybe I may be coming off wrong to you.

The eastern Hemisphere had a head start on progression. Lets say it was a five to ten thousand year head start, due to the fact that the Americas took longer to become populated by people crossing the Bering Strait.

Its not because they are biologically more primitive(which I never said nor hinted at). Plus, not only were they late starters because of this, idea diffusion from North to South America was much more difficult because it spread across a wide range of latitudes climates and natural barriers as opposed to the Eurasian landmass which was primarily in a more compact, similar latitudal position with much more navigable natural land barriers.

V4D3R
11-26-2007, 05:13 PM
^^Lmao at you reading us white man history- you still think we came here by the Bering Strait. Da fucc outta here.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 05:21 PM
You can piece any situation into ones own liking, just as you can twist most biblical and Qu'anic verses to fit your needs, as Sultan Bayezid did in justifying his murder of his brothers to acquire full possession of the Ottoman throne. Thats just one minor instance.

Certain aspects of Native culture may have been ahead like medicines, but I guess this is what I'm trying to say, since maybe I may be coming off wrong to you.

The eastern Hemisphere had a head start on progression. Lets say it was a five to ten thousand year head start, due to the fact that the Americas took longer to become populated by people crossing the Bering Strait.

Its not because they are biologically more primitive(which I never said nor hinted at). Plus, not only were they late starters because of this, idea diffusion from North to South America was much more difficult because it spread across a wide range of latitudes climates and natural barriers as opposed to the Eurasian landmass which was primarily in a more compact, similar latitudal position with much more navigable natural land barriers.

The Bearing straight theory is used to justify the Americas as a battle field to be won, instead of a home to be cherished.

Just like you said:

You can piece any situation into ones own liking, just as you can twist most biblical and Qu'anic verses to fit your needs, as Sultan Bayezid did in justifying his murder of his brothers to acquire full possession of the Ottoman throne. Thats just one minor instance.

The bearing straight theory is a perfect example of that. Take it how you want, it is what it is.

Manifest Destiny is an ugly fat bitch that ate all the cookies.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 05:30 PM
^^Lmao at you reading us white man history- you still think we came here by the Bering Strait. Da fucc outta here.

Oh my bad...we were manufactured by reptilian aliens. You fuckin fanatical nut. You should be committed.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 05:35 PM
The Bearing straight theory is used to justify the Americas as a battle field to be won, instead of a home to be cherished.

Just like you said:



The bearing straight theory is a perfect example of that. Take it how you want, it is what it is.

Manifest Destiny is an ugly fat bitch that ate all the cookies.

Explain how they got there then. It obviously wasn't with boats. Pangea??? Whats your theory.

As far as I'm concerned, if the Natives didn't want to fight, but could have beat the Europeans, thats on them.

If Europeans didnt want to fight and be 'civil', well then you may have had you wish...Islamic Europe and dwindelling white populations...Europe could have been a Turkish/ Umayyad homeland.

Personally, I think you just like to play the devils advocate.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 05:40 PM
Oh my bad...we were manufactured by reptilian aliens. You fuckin fanatical nut. You should be committed.

Despite how you feel about Vaders beliefs, he still speaks the truth:

You are reciting the white mans text book history.

We're all spoon fed this shit since we're kids in any type of school system. It doesn't make the theory true and any truth to it doesn't mean all Native Americans migrated from Asia.

There were people here with their own version of history and the government has made every attempt to erase that history from the face of the planet.

Why?

Native American tribes hold a lot of power in terms of claims to lands and mineral rights despite that treaties were signed. A lot of times, these treaties are disputed in court and Native Americans have had a few victories against them (or for them depending on how they're interpreted).

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 05:44 PM
BTW wuts with Capalini?? LOL tell me your not Italian.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 05:48 PM
Despite how you feel about Vaders beliefs, he still speaks the truth:

You are reciting the white mans text book history.

We're all spoon fed this shit since we're kids in any type of school system. It doesn't make the theory true and any truth to it doesn't mean all Native Americans migrated from Asia.

There were people here with their own version of history and the government has made every attempt to erase that history from the face of the planet.

Why?

Native American tribes hold a lot of power in terms of claims to lands and mineral rights despite that treaties were signed. A lot of times, these treaties are disputed in court and Native Americans have had a few victories against them (or for them depending on how they're interpreted).

Hey, thats fine, I never said the Euros who came over didnt fuck them over. But dont think this was a European trait and blame europeans for the evils of the world.

And thats not text book history....you wont find any of what I said, except for the Bering strait shit, in any textbooks.

But like I said, what is YOUR theory on how they got to the Americas......I mean if we all originated from Africa, how did they get all the way their across two oceans.

V4D3R
11-26-2007, 06:12 PM
I will tell you this - nobody knows what really happened. But I do know that there are Sumerian texts in the British museum that say in Sumerian and Akkadian that an alien named Marduk was exiled on another part of the planet and he was worshiped there like a god. When they went to look for the exiled Marduk - they found that he had many many offspring humans.

Whether or not you believe in what I do- does not matter. but what does matter is historically- the paleman has been badman to the rest of humanity and changed history to his liking. I can rip apart anything you got to say about it.

Play coy all you want. It's written on the oldest stones in the world what I'm bringing to the table.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 06:18 PM
You can begin ripping......Start with the Greeks, go on to the Romans, and than you can conclude with the Northern Europeans.....feel free to insert any other races of man you wish, so we can get a full spectrum of the societies of the world.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 07:33 PM
BTW wuts with Capalini?? LOL tell me your not Italian.

I'm not Italian.

Hey, thats fine, I never said the Euros who came over didnt fuck them over. But dont think this was a European trait and blame europeans for the evils of the world.

And thats not text book history....you wont find any of what I said, except for the Bering strait shit, in any textbooks.

But like I said, what is YOUR theory on how they got to the Americas......I mean if we all originated from Africa, how did they get all the way their across two oceans.


I never attributed what happened as a trait of being European, I just stated facts regarding history and the role Europeans countries played in recent history.


Maybe we didn't all originate from Africa. Besides that, how do people reach america today? Boats and Aircraft....my guess is boats.


My theory:

Often times people want to bump heads with me over this because I won't humor them with my knowledge of pre-history. That's only because my knowledge doesn't sit well with most people.

For the sake of argument, people have been on this continent longer than most scientists will have you believe which is- 9,000 to 50,000 years ago.

For the most part:

The bering straight theory sets natives back to 45,000 BC.

After the discovery of Kennewick man, many scientists have been switching up theories. Based on Genetic markers of skeletons found along the coast, some scientists believe Native Americans are the result of many different migrations in pre-history.......but the results of genetic markers are ambiguous because

1. Genetic Markers for skeletons along the coast are not consistent with Native Americans found Inland.

2. There isn't substantial research in regards to genetics to back up any other claims.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 07:36 PM
I dont disagree with that.....but the thing is, we know so little about pre-history that we probably never know.

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 08:02 PM
Explain how they got there then. It obviously wasn't with boats.

Tell us how you know for certain? Ever notice something about there being ancient so-called pyramids on both sides of the Atlantic?



If Europeans didnt want to fight and be 'civil', well then you may have had you wish...Islamic Europe and dwindelling white populations...Europe could have been a Turkish/ Umayyad homeland.

Shows what you know, by the time of Ottoman rulership those Ottoman Muslims were 'white' themselves.

WARPATH
11-26-2007, 08:07 PM
I dont disagree with that.....but the thing is, we know so little about pre-history that we probably never know.

Well then put this into perspective:

There were two continents over here where all the people described their Genesis with the continents.


Wouldn't it be a fair assumption that within these populations there were scholars that preserved their history for the coming generations?


and

Wouldn't it also be a fair assumption that it was because of their knowledge- it defined their societies, their interaction with the earth, and ultimately defined the coarse they used in developing technologies?

If this would hold true it would explain why Europeans thought of Native Americans as primitive. The difference of culture and language wouldn't have helped either- Because of highly held beliefs of Eurpeans of that time- most felt they were superior- only helped fan the genocidal destruction of native americans.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 10:08 PM
Tell us how you know for certain? Ever notice something about there being ancient so-called pyramids on both sides of the Atlantic?





Shows what you know, by the time of Ottoman rulership those Ottoman Muslims were 'white' themselves.

I never denied that natives had technology!!!!! But if at some time they had boats, would there not be evidence of it!!!! Thats a big assumption just to make.
They obviously did not have the same crops and animals. I dont know. I think my theory makes alot more sense.

Im not pro anything.....Im just interested in how things got to be how they are regardless.

So its your OPINION that the Ottoman sultans were 'white'(and by 'white' what do you mean?)....OK, super. Sure they intermarried with Greek/Roman Byzantines for alliances....then they invaded them and broke their treaties like the Europeans did to the natives.......you see, the euros did not invent treachery.

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 10:21 PM
I never denied that natives had technology!!!!!


Did I say you denied that? What I will say is that you're willingly trying to ignore the obvious.

Ever notice something about there being ancient so-called pyramids on both sides of the Atlantic?


But if at some time they had boats, would there not be evidence of it!!!! Thats a big assumption just to make.

Everybody had boats.

They obviously did not have the same crops and animals. I dont know. I think my theory makes alot more sense.

Theories are not facts. There are ancient structures in STONE that speak more of a forgotten truth then any theory.


So its your OPINION that the Ottoman sultans were 'white'(and by 'white' what do you mean?)....

Not black or Arab or Asian. [so-called Mongoloid]

Do you know where the Seljuks and Ottomans came from?


you see, the euros did not invent treachery.

THe Turks are caucasian.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 10:57 PM
turks and mongols come from the steppes of Central Asia. ...if you want to call them white, by all means do it. It fits with your theories. Although I'll ask again, what exactly makes a person 'white'?

you said not black, then you said Arab, which is not the same as Persian, which I suppose you could group into Asian, but then were do the Turks and Mongols fit seeing as they derived from Central Asia????
There are major hole in your hypothesis Dicktor

Olive Oil Goombah
11-26-2007, 11:01 PM
BTW genius, if the Native Americans have always been in the Americas, than Europeans must have always been in Europe, meaning, they did not derive from the infamous Caucasus mountain, thus......they are not caucasian. Turks were pretty accurate tho....your smarter than your skin color would suggest based from my pro white doctrine.

Kephrem
11-26-2007, 11:34 PM
turks and mongols come from the steppes of Central Asia. ...

Turks were whiteboys - CAUCASIANS - who happened to mix in with SOME so-called Mongols and then much later real Arabs.


if you want to call them white, by all means do it. It fits with your theories. Although I'll ask again, what exactly makes a person 'white'?


http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/1/17/TurkishPeople.jpg


you said not black, then you said Arab, which is not the same as Persian, which I suppose you could group into Asian,

LMAO. Those are not real Persians those are from the same stock as Ottomans.


but then were do the Turks and Mongols fit seeing as they derived from Central Asia????
There are major hole in your hypothesis


Not really. Turks were always and still are white and simply have mixed in with the real Arab and real Asian. Your forefathers originally came from the Middle East and were pushed into the caves and hills of Europe in ages past.

Machete
11-27-2007, 04:12 AM
no one's immediate family alive today has been affected by so called topic. you are all angry children not looking at tomorrow and steady focusing on yesterday. grow up or grow down.

WARPATH
11-27-2007, 09:42 AM
BTW genius, if the Native Americans have always been in the Americas, than Europeans must have always been in Europe, meaning, they did not derive from the infamous Caucasus mountain, thus......they are not caucasian. Turks were pretty accurate tho....your smarter than your skin color would suggest based from my pro white doctrine.

I never claimed I knew where Caucasians came from. That's on you and your history.

WARPATH
11-27-2007, 09:44 AM
no one's immediate family alive today has been affected by so called topic. you are all angry children not looking at tomorrow and steady focusing on yesterday. grow up or grow down.

What planet do you live on?

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 02:14 PM
BTW genius, if the Native Americans have always been in the Americas, than Europeans must have always been in Europe, meaning, they did not derive from the infamous Caucasus mountain, thus......they are not caucasian.

I never claimed you derived from there. I said you derive from the Middle East and were pushed up there, thus making you Caucasians i.e. cave dwellars.

http://www.rps.psu.edu/turkey/graphics/turkey04_enlarge.jpg
Turkey


The Turkish government eventually decided that having citizens living in caves was a national embarrassment. The last of the cave dwellers were evicted only in the 1970s.

http://quovadimus.org/turkey99/cappadocia/thumb.html

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 02:19 PM
So now you can understand Killah Priests lyrics a bit better:


Does it pay to be deaf, dumb and blind?
From a slave we was kept from the mind
And from the caves he crept from behind
And what he gave, was the sect of the swine
When the bible, it condemned the pig
I don't mean to pull your hems or flip your wigs

Lyrics off of B.I.B.L.E.
Liquid Swords album
1995

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 02:22 PM
"I'm makin devils cower to the Caucas Mountains"

lyrics from U-God
Mystery of Chess Boxing

Olive Oil Goombah
11-27-2007, 03:38 PM
Wow you really broke those lyrics down you desert sun worshipper. Dune coon as one of my friend calls them.

CS-Take it easy, i wouldnt want you to scalp me u damn homeless savage.

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 04:11 PM
Wow you really broke those lyrics down

I actually didn't break them down AT ALL cave dwelling stone phallic jackal worshipper.


you desert sun worshipper. Dune coon as one of my friend calls them.


Fuck cares what your dizzy ass friend calls them? Without the Middle East culture there would've never been a U.S..

WARPATH
11-27-2007, 04:23 PM
Wow you really broke those lyrics down you desert sun worshipper. Dune coon as one of my friend calls them.

CS-Take it easy, i wouldnt want you to scalp me u damn homeless savage.

What the fuck is this? Why you gotta resort to racism? Your weak.

HANZO
11-27-2007, 05:03 PM
Turks were whiteboys - CAUCASIANS - who happened to mix in with SOME so-called Mongols and then much later real Arabs.

Not really. Turks were always and still are white and simply have mixed in with the real Arab and real Asian. Your forefathers originally came from the Middle East and were pushed into the caves and hills of Europe in ages past.

?????? ok yeah turks from turkey are white cause of extreame mixing with the local population. and a majority of the ppl living in turkey are actually russians or ppl from the balkans who moved to turkey after world war 1.

original turks originate from western china and siberia. they aint white. the ottomans allowed far too much mixing, mehmed the conqueror was like 3 quarters serbian. ataturks mother descended from the ukraine. dnt be fooled they may be called turks, but the ppl who live in turkey are just a group of slavic converts in the west of the country, and arabs in the east. there are only pockets of areas of the nation who have ethnic turks living there.

why bring turks into a convo about natives though??? i dnt recall us ever going to america.

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 05:07 PM
original turks originate from western china and siberia. they aint white. the ottomans allowed far too much mixing, mehmed the conqueror was like 3 quarters serbian. ataturks mother descended from the ukraine. dnt be fooled they may be called turks, but the ppl who live in turkey are just a group of slavic converts in the west of the country, and arabs in the east. there are only pockets of areas of the nation who have ethnic turks living there.




Show us these real ethnic chinese/siberian Turks.

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 05:13 PM
http://www.istanbul-travel.net/images/fatih-sultan-mehmet.jpg

Doesn't look too Chinese/Siberian.

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 05:16 PM
Yeah they ain't white. lol

http://www.ee.bilkent.edu.tr/~history/Pictures1/im39.jpg

LORD NOSE
11-27-2007, 05:30 PM
thanks

LORD NOSE
11-27-2007, 05:32 PM
Wow you really broke those lyrics down you desert sun worshipper. Dune coon as one of my friend calls them.

CS-Take it easy, i wouldnt want you to scalp me u damn homeless savage.

he's showing his teeth



yall got him showing his teeth in here



<<takes off his stripes and follows lead

HANZO
11-27-2007, 06:22 PM
man wats the point of creating an arguement with you keph, you aint reading what im writing, but maybe you aint understanding what im saying. ottoman empire started in the 13th century, think deep and hard. if the mixing started at that time, then by mehmeds time the 15th century, what do you get??? i jus said that the sultans and ppl of modern turkey are white, if you want to check what original turks look like jus look at the countries of turkmenistan, kazakhistan, krygzistan, and uzbekistan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Seljuk_prince.jpg statue of a seljuk prince. im sure if your able to find pics of turkic warlords before the 11th century they will look mongoloid.

like this. keph if you marry a white girl. and your son marries a white girl and that continues for 300 years. are any of your descendents even resemble black??? no.

stop the nonsense counter arguing keph its not like im saying turks are black. i kno we white, im jus saying that originally our ancestors werent white. all history textbooks agree on it, western and eastern textbooks. why you so blind to this simple fact???

like i said before though you chatting like it was us turks that killed all the natives and took all africans as slaves. dnt even bother asking any more question on it cause theres nothing left to ask. your prelonging the arguement pointlessly, get back to topic, im jus here to correct ppl on the wrong teaching about my history, like you do when ppl talk wrong about african history.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-27-2007, 06:33 PM
he's showing his teeth



yall got him showing his teeth in here



<<takes off his stripes and follows lead

Shiiit.....if you can't feel the subverted racism from keph and company, your just in denial. They don't need to show their teeth, I can see right thru the grin.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-27-2007, 06:36 PM
man wats the point of creating an arguement with you keph, you aint reading what im writing, but maybe you aint understanding what im saying. ottoman empire started in the 13th century, think deep and hard. if the mixing started at that time, then by mehmeds time the 15th century, what do you get??? i jus said that the sultans and ppl of modern turkey are white, if you want to check what original turks look like jus look at the countries of turkmenistan, kazakhistan, krygzistan, and uzbekistan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Seljuk_prince.jpg statue of a seljuk prince. im sure if your able to find pics of turkic warlords before the 11th century they will look mongoloid.

like this. keph if you marry a white girl. and your son marries a white girl and that continues for 300 years. are any of your descendents even resemble black??? no.

stop the nonsense counter arguing keph its not like im saying turks are black. i kno we white, im jus saying that originally our ancestors werent white. all history textbooks agree on it, western and eastern textbooks. why you so blind to this simple fact???

like i said before though you chatting like it was us turks that killed all the natives and took all africans as slaves. dnt even bother asking any more question on it cause theres nothing left to ask. your prelonging the arguement pointlessly, get back to topic, im jus here to correct ppl on the wrong teaching about my history, like you do when ppl talk wrong about african history.

The sultans often married Byzantine empress's. I said that already. He has an agenda, he's not after truth. Most on this board aren't. They accuse real historians of being liars when they are the ones attempting the blackwash transparent pages that were made transparent after true fact seekers looked past the whitewashing.....What can you do, its a wu tang board.

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 06:37 PM
man wats the point of creating an arguement with you keph, you aint reading what im writing, but maybe you aint understanding what im saying. ottoman empire started in the 13th century, think deep and hard. if the mixing started at that time, then by mehmeds time the 15th century, what do you get??? i jus said that the sultans and ppl of modern turkey are white, if you want to check what original turks look like jus look at the countries of turkmenistan, kazakhistan, krygzistan, and uzbekistan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7b/Seljuk_prince.jpg statue of a seljuk prince. im sure if your able to find pics of turkic warlords before the 11th century they will look mongoloid.

If that's what the original Turks looked like then caucasians must've been their sons. [in a cultural sense] So not only were you sonned by the Mongols, the Arabs got to you after they did.

i kno we white, im jus saying that originally our ancestors werent white. all history textbooks agree on it, western and eastern textbooks. why you so blind to this simple fact???

Caucasians were sonned by Mongols and then by Arabs is the truth of the matter.

lol @ all those caucasians in Turkey being the supposed offspring of Asiatic Mongols. Nah homey, you merely mixed in with them, and ever since then you've called yourself by the name of your former Mongol lords.

like i said before though you chatting like it was us turks that killed all the natives

NickyTooch brought the Turks up.

Olive Oil Goombah
11-27-2007, 06:40 PM
You throw Arab around like all people from the Middle East are arab....funny, I wonder how little your really know. ONly arab you prolly seen is the one who runs the gas station in your slum......and then charges you a buck a cigarette while ass raping ;you on other things as well!!!!

But yea, the white man got sonned...

Kephrem
11-27-2007, 06:53 PM
But yea, the white man got sonned...


Yes, he did.

http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/07cc6039e2.gif (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)

LORD NOSE
11-27-2007, 06:57 PM
Wow you really broke those lyrics down you desert sun worshipper. Dune coon as one of my friend calls them.

CS-Take it easy, i wouldnt want you to scalp me u damn homeless savage.

you played yourself right here - you shouldn't have anything else to say after this - you have proved our point 100%

Olive Oil Goombah
11-27-2007, 10:48 PM
Wut? Dune Coons? Deal with it, its what some call you black from the desert, or arabs. Depends. Play myself? hardly, its how I feel about a certain few of you here. I wont hide it. I'm sure you think Im a devil from a cave...I'm not offended. You shouldnt be either, unless your a dune coon from the desert.

What I said to CS was a joke. I actually respect his perspective on some things.

WARPATH
11-28-2007, 09:52 AM
Wut? Dune Coons? Deal with it, its what some call you black from the desert, or arabs. Depends. Play myself? hardly, its how I feel about a certain few of you here. I wont hide it. I'm sure you think Im a devil from a cave...I'm not offended. You shouldnt be either, unless your a dune coon from the desert.

What I said to CS was a joke. I actually respect his perspective on some things.

Your time traveling fortune teller that can read minds too?

Any respect I had for you was gone once you started throwing names around. If you don't like people from other cultures, then what are you doing on Wu message board? If I was you I'd just leave. I'm sure there are message boards where you kind of ignorance is welcome- go post at one of those places.

LORD NOSE
11-28-2007, 12:37 PM
Wut? Dune Coons?

You mean sand niggers right ?


Deal with it, its what some call you black from the desert, or arabs.

yeah i was right - he proved me right

some ?

some like who ?

are you not the one doing the name calling ?

Depends. Play myself? hardly, its how I feel about a certain few of you here.

so only some of us here are sand niggers ?
point them out
point out the black people from the desert aka sand niggers aka dune coons that you don't like

I wont hide it.


point them out then -
but you will try to cover it up and make it look like you don't feel this way
there are allot of your kind on this board trying to hide the way they really feel -



I'm sure you think Im a devil from a cave...

i don 't know your nationality, race, or place of residence
but your mind state says that you are a devil

I'm not offended. You shouldnt be either, unless your a dune coon from the desert.

point them out


What I said to CS was a joke. I actually respect his perspective on some things.


yeah right
i thought you said that you won't hide it
why be on a WU board
why can't they just leave us be ?

Olive Oil Goombah
11-28-2007, 03:55 PM
Sunny, you are probably the biggest bullshitter here

LORD NOSE
11-28-2007, 03:59 PM
Sunny, you are probably the biggest bullshitter here


probably

but you would have to know me to find out if thats a fact right ?

Olive Oil Goombah
11-28-2007, 04:03 PM
Who cares anyway. I wouldnt even hold it against you. If I met u, we wouldnt even have this conversation. The internet is evil.....and good in both respects.

LORD NOSE
11-28-2007, 04:16 PM
Who cares anyway. I wouldnt even hold it against you. If I met u, we wouldnt even have this conversation. The internet is evil.....and good in both respects.

you made a statement - stand by it

you obviously care because it came out of your mind

or is that something you wanted to put in others mind about me

trying to start trouble

cause chaos

tell lies

that cause murder and mayhem on the planet

stand by what you claim

Olive Oil Goombah
11-28-2007, 07:47 PM
I do. Its an internet forum, thus, not that serious. So go 'pimp' your avatar so you look sweet making a post. Douche.

Kephrem
12-06-2007, 01:36 AM
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/0565da7e09.gif (http://www.freeimagehosting.net/)