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crds
11-30-2007, 04:40 AM
I am sick to death of all of this I am so rich, look at my Three Million Dollar chain or my diamond studded watch, my cars, my yacht, my champagne, my mansion, my hoes (odd how you seem to see the same video girls in wack videos though) your people are dying from poverty in New Orleans and many other places in the US and yet you would rather waste your money on your selfish self?

Good to know that you care and that you place importance on seeing your fellow Man looked after, when and why did Hip Hop get so selfish and so materialistic?.

I know a lot of Old School heads will say, what about Rakim and Slick Rick? and I will say, that was mad different, those MC's paid dues and worked hard and bought themselves gold chains because they were showing the wack MC's who was the boss.

So many of today's wack "artists", get way too much money and earn extra money from ringtone and internet download sales.

Back in the days wack was wack and was ousted (Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer etc) these days biting is acceptable, the DJ is almost extinct in rap groups and wack clowns like Solja Boy, Rich Boy, Plies,Lil Boosie etc... can be superstars even though they make simple and wack repetitive trash and create clones, this is NOT what Kool Herc and Afrika Bambaata had in mind when they bought Hip Hop to the masses.

What happened to being creative, where are the fat headnodding breaks and clever and dusty loops?, where is the next Rakim, EPMD, JVC Force, Public Enemy, De La Soul etc?

I get that a lot of shit is made for the clubs, but whole damn albums? and kids being inspired to be a Lil' or a Young.... but don't give a shit about who Grandmaster Flash was?

That is WRONG

I honestly spend most of my time listening to the true shit from the 80's and mostly 90's, that is not to say that there isn't some dope Hip Hop out there today...because there is but not like it was in the 80's and the 90's sadly, it's just that the kids of today are getting fucked up by all of this wack shit passing as "rap".

To quote Guru, "the wackness is spreading like the plague".

begongo
11-30-2007, 05:40 AM
Hip Hop hasn't changed , it is the same and it will always be
what has changed is that there are more imitators now, phonies, fakes
the founders of our culture made emceeing look easy because they were experts, and the new generation didn't bother trying to learn it from the elders ... they thought it was as easy as learning a game or a trick ... but it wasn't so .. it was an art
personally i ain`t bothered by those people ... i mean ... they are not part of my culture, they don`t represent me ... not every young baggy black person is part of Hip Hop even if they are on tv

TSA
11-30-2007, 08:47 AM
im really disillusioned with hip hop


even the artist i like, nas and them, purposely suck now



so 8 diagrams and big dough are the only things keeping me in the game right now, otherwise it's just become corny and overplayed.

V4D3R
11-30-2007, 09:41 AM
Hip-Hop never died - it's just underground.
True Hip-Hop.
Where important messages and teaching and life stories lie.

It's just slept on by money hungry corporations.

Koolish
11-30-2007, 12:29 PM
it's like music should be something you can connect with.

i can't connect with the fake lifestyles you portray, so i don't give a fuck about your music.

what they're TRYING to do is make everyone want what they have. fuck it, i want nothing that i didn't WORK for.

the corporation's grasp around the mainstream is tighter than Mussolini's noose.

crds
11-30-2007, 02:45 PM
it's like music should be something you can connect with.

i can't connect with the fake lifestyles you portray, so i don't give a fuck about your music.

what they're TRYING to do is make everyone want what they have. fuck it, i want nothing that i didn't WORK for.

the corporation's grasp around the mainstream is tighter than Mussolini's noose.

That's why I hate 50 Cent and that lame Window Shopper shit, what an asshole, look at me I have got this and you haven't, so your life if worthless...that loser has done far damage to Hip Hop than MC Hammer or Vanilla Ice did.

A glorified gangster lifestyle, which I for one second, don't believe is real, some record company saw that Biggie and 2 Pac had gone and there was a void.

I have always failed to see why anyone would want to listen to a mumbling goon, I watched his wack movie the other night and had trouble understanding him and at times he was unbelievably cheesy.

Cee Oh Vee
11-30-2007, 02:59 PM
I'd write an essay on this but I'll just leave ya'll with a few words.

One must distinguish the difference between rap and hip hop, rap is an extremely small part of hip hop, rap is [very nearly, and mostly] dead, but it's not the be-all and end-all of hip hop.

begongo
11-30-2007, 03:09 PM
I'd write an essay on this but I'll just leave ya'll with a few words.

One must distinguish the difference between rap and hip hop, rap is an extremely small part of hip hop, rap is [very nearly, and mostly] dead, but it's not the be-all and end-all of hip hop.
word, that was straight to the point

WARPATH
11-30-2007, 03:14 PM
Rap, Hip-Hop

let's just call it what it is:

Music.

Everyone has their preference.

Let's stop the whining about it.

begongo
11-30-2007, 04:00 PM
but the whole point is that Hip-Hop is not music, but a culture ... that`s why people should distinguish Hip-Hop from Rap music

LORD NOSE
11-30-2007, 04:19 PM
stay out the garbage if you don't like the smell

if you feel the mess is overwhelming......do something about it and clean it up

CharlesJones
12-01-2007, 10:31 AM
LOL@CRDS hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. I couldn't stop laughing at your first post about this because everything you said is true. There's so many wack rappers right now who are garbage and the sad thing about it is that people are buying their albums LOL. People who like that trash don't care about rappers who have skills and that's messed up. I definitely agree with Guru when he said the wackness is spreading like the plague. I don't see rap getting any better in the future because CRDS you made a good point when you said are there gonna be any good mc's in the future. I think there might be a few good mc's in the future who care about lyrics but i think there's gonna be more wack rappers in the future than good rappers.



Wack southern rappers with their wack rap names make me laugh because every song they do is the same and every video they do is the same. LOL@Playaz Circle and Little Wayne's Dufflebag Boy song hahahahahahahahahahaha. This is a perfect example of what CRDS is talking about. These dudes can't rhyme at all and they act like their lyrics are so good and their beats are good. Dufflebag Boy video is so pathetic. There's a black woman in the video in the scene when that one dude in the group with the dreads comes in the kitchen and his woman looks like a slut with the outfit she has on and she pours some Frosted Flakes cereal for this dude while he sits down because he acts like he's so special that he can't pour his own damn cereal in a bowl LOL. These type of videos are influencing young black men to treat black women like bitches and sluts and it's also influencing young black men into thinking the only way they can get some success and get material things is by being a rapper when the sad reality is that most young black men won't become rappers because every young black man can't rap and if they do become rappers, they won't make much money because everybody isn't gonna buy their albums especially since music is available to download and that interferes with the artist's album sales money.

BornPower
12-03-2007, 05:00 PM
You right on a lot of points, but there are some southern rappers who never get their due! Killa Mike has been slept on (so has most of the Dungeon Family for that matter!) and so has Fieldmob. Chamillionaire was slept on for the longest until he did Ridin Durrty. UGK has been in the game forever and they are just now gettin the media play they've been denied for most of their career. Regardless of the current trends in the media (Soulja Boy, Playaz Circle, etc.) it's been proven that even if you have talent it does not mean people will buy your album.
Music is music and we have to realize that the INDUSTRY is about making money. Period. If these companies can make money sellin these lame acts, let em! We (the participants of the culture we call hip hop) must make the distinction clear between the pretenders and us. Ripping them to shreds lyrically and refusing to put our money in their pockets is one way to do this. Any other ideas on how we can do this?

SID
12-03-2007, 05:33 PM
whatever anyone says, no sane person can deny that hip hop is DEAD, i was thinking the other day most of my music except wu tang dates 2000 and back.

Hip hop has become a corporate money making machine, mentaly enslaving young people, and sumbliminaly brainwashing them, people add to the currupt global "hip-hop" network by buying music and merchandise. I dont think we should add any money towards it, it does nothing good for the world, we also need more artists with raw and unique material ready to rep the real shit from the heart, in order to make modern hip hop in general something to be proud of again...

Cee Oh Vee
12-03-2007, 05:45 PM
My previous post still stands.

Olive Oil Goombah
12-03-2007, 06:15 PM
Commercial music is its own music. To consider these commercial 'urban' artists hip-hop....its not accurate. Blink 182 is a far cry from original punk rock. Bush was considered 'grunge' but they were a far cry from Nirvana, the Melvins, Mudhoney, etc.

Same goes for country, rap, heavy metal, etc.

Olive Oil Goombah
12-03-2007, 06:18 PM
It all starts underground, than, if the genre is good enough and enough of a movement is established to the point were the genre can make money, then it will be pushed commercially. Bands can choose to go corporate or stay independent, but everyone wants to make some dough(and I dont blame them) so some go corp. Some could have been great underground but want to stay commercial because they enjoy that lifestyle (50 cent).
Others

Cee Oh Vee
12-04-2007, 06:03 AM
What you need to remember is, that 50 Cent shit isn't real hip hop, so hip hop can't be dead anyway.

Also, I have to say it again, rap music is dead, not hip hop. Notice I said rap -music-.

Kephrem
12-04-2007, 06:35 AM
Some 50 Cent actually IS Hip Hop. But hip hop with a street edge/soul vibe/conscious edge isn't what will be promoted all day everyday on radio and TV.

Koolish
12-04-2007, 10:26 AM
the shitty thing about Hip Hop is that in its pure form it had maybe 10 years before the mainstream fucked it up.

rock music had about twenty, the 60s and 70s were great for it but the 80s fucked it up. and shit, turn on your TV rock music isn't that much better.

mainstream music will never improve because the average music listener doesn't prioritize music very high in their life. if you know someone who truly loves music, their favorite artist is rarely some mainstream garbage.

Cee Oh Vee
12-04-2007, 10:35 AM
Another thing: hip hop isn't a genre of music, it's a culture.

SG
12-04-2007, 12:45 PM
His song explains the answers to your questions:yes:, listen to his words careful

iWa4UpajKTc

LuckyTheWonderDog
12-04-2007, 12:50 PM
Here are two free collections from two of my favourite current MCs.

MF Grimm - From The Grimm Reaper To The Gingerbread Man
http://rapidshare.com/files/71173957/mf_grimm_-_from_the_grimm_reaper_to_the_gingerbread_man.rar. html

Insight - An Introduction To Insight
http://www.zshare.net/download/4552257aef1781/

There's loads of dope current mcs, and many innovative records being released.

Listen to:

Mr Lif
Cannibal Ox
MF Grimm
Insight
Dagha
Project Move
Eulorhythmics
Non Phixion
Arsonists
Edan
MF Doom
Madlib
Jehst
Task Force
Roots Manuva
Foreign Beggars
Wildchild
RA the Rugged Man
J-Live
Del Tha Funky Homosapien & Hieroglyphics

There's loads...

Olive Oil Goombah
12-04-2007, 01:05 PM
Another thing: hip hop isn't a genre of music, it's a culture.

They are all cultures. Punk, Folk music from the 60's, heavy metal. Shit, 80's Hair metal was a culture.

begongo
12-04-2007, 01:47 PM
NickyTooch you are completely wrong
the genres you have mentioned are all just trend-waves, they do not have what they need to be cultures
Hip Hop has an ideology, has traditions, has specific art forms, has a history and a meaning
in contrast with the founders of those genres, the founders of Hip Hop were not like "let's do something interesting" or "let's be different" instead they were "let's be ourselves" and "let's free our minds and our bodies"

CharlesJones
12-04-2007, 05:33 PM
Field Mob and Chamillionaire are wack.

Visionz
12-04-2007, 05:43 PM
Charles, fuck you, ignorant ass bitch living in your mom's basement, retarded ass doesn't like to read or learn but your ass can memorize all the lyrics to the songs of so-called ignorant rappers who you despise???? fuck you, so damn blind to your own ignorance that it's disgusting.

Olive Oil Goombah
12-04-2007, 06:47 PM
NickyTooch you are completely wrong
the genres you have mentioned are all just trend-waves, they do not have what they need to be cultures
Hip Hop has an ideology, has traditions, has specific art forms, has a history and a meaning
in contrast with the founders of those genres, the founders of Hip Hop were not like "let's do something interesting" or "let's be different" instead they were "let's be ourselves" and "let's free our minds and our bodies"

Wow....Im the one whose wrong? You tell me the folk music of the 60's didnt have ideology, traditions, art forms, and meanings. Shit, that music had much more meaning than hip hop. What kind of meaning does hip hop have today???
Thats exactly why this thread was made.....its lost whatever meaning it had.

I knew you someone was going to take what I said and try to shit on those other types of music, which is ridiculous because its the same thing with all of them. LOL 'trend-waves'....who tha fuck are you???
You obviously dont know music outside of hip hop with that kind of attitude.

Kephrem
12-04-2007, 07:02 PM
How did hippie music have more meaning then hip hop? Ras Kass - Soul On Ice Diamond D remix, Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five - The Message, Rza - A Day to God Is a 1000 Years, Big Pun - Capitol Punishment, Ghostface - All That I Got Is You, Rakim - In the Ghetto, Killah Priest - B.I.B.L.E., etc, etc have much MORE meaning by virtue of there being based on REALITY and not a utopia like they did back then.

Visionz
12-04-2007, 07:18 PM
How did hippie music have more meaning then hip hop? Ras Kass - Soul On Ice Diamond D remix, Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five - The Message, Rza - A Day to God Is a 1000 Years, Big Pun - Capitol Punishment, Ghostface - All That I Got Is You, Rakim - In the Ghetto, Killah Priest - B.I.B.L.E., etc, etc have much MORE meaning by virtue of there being based on REALITY and not a utopia like they did back then.word, hands down hip-hop is the most lyrical of any music to ever exist, that's not there's not lyrical genius in other forms just that in hip-hop it reached a whole new level

Olive Oil Goombah
12-05-2007, 12:07 AM
Man, you dudes are fulla shit....hippie music??? More liek Protest music, a movement that helped stop segregation and a war in vietnam that should not have been fought. Thats REALITY.....I love B.I.B.L.E. by killah priest, but that song is more about utopia than anything.

That 60's music defined a whole generation, and it did so before hip hop was even a thought. Music and art have always influenced and been part of Renaissance's all thruout history....Some of you folks seem to have forgotten about the Harlem Renaisssance, I see, and all the influential music that came from that era.....the music Malcolm X was influenced by...

But yea, your right, hip hop has all that beat...you know, big white T's, chains, rims....thats the culture you've gotten from it??? Get real.

Kephrem
12-05-2007, 12:50 AM
Hip Hop is protest music, by its very nature, and it always has been.

Public Enemy? N.W.A? Show us 60's music that has influenced not only a generation but a generation of global youth culture. And no, not ''big white T's, chains, rims''.

LuckyTheWonderDog
12-05-2007, 03:38 AM
word, hands down hip-hop is the most lyrical of any music to ever exist, that's not there's not lyrical genius in other forms just that in hip-hop it reached a whole new level

I dunno, Bob Dylan was (is) a lyrical genius. He may not have switched the flow up quite like some rappers, but damn, the lyrics...

He was also pretty much rapping before even Melle was at it...

2-xIulyVsG8

begongo
12-05-2007, 09:20 AM
Wow....Im the one whose wrong? You tell me the folk music of the 60's didnt have ideology, traditions, art forms, and meanings. Shit, that music had much more meaning than hip hop. What kind of meaning does hip hop have today???
Thats exactly why this thread was made.....its lost whatever meaning it had.

I knew you someone was going to take what I said and try to shit on those other types of music, which is ridiculous because its the same thing with all of them. LOL 'trend-waves'....who tha fuck are you???
You obviously dont know music outside of hip hop with that kind of attitude.
lol
man you are completely misinterpreting what i said ... i love trend-waves, i have a lot of pleasure listening to a lot more genres of music besides the ones you mentioned ... they simply aren't cultures ... that doesn't mean i don't enjoy them to the fullest ...
actually most music genres don't have a cultural background, if you simply know and say they aren't cultures, that don't mean you shit on them
so what's your point ?

IrOnMaN
12-05-2007, 10:38 AM
Hip-Hop isn't hip-hop anymore. It's alot of R&B (rap and bullshit) shit out there. /(/(

Cee Oh Vee
12-05-2007, 11:52 AM
Hip Hop is protest music, by its very nature, and it always has been.

Public Enemy? N.W.A? Show us 60's music that has influenced not only a generation but a generation of global youth culture. And no, not ''big white T's, chains, rims''.

You said "always has been", and named N.W.A, like their old school :|

And no it hasn't always been.

LuckyTheWonderDog
12-05-2007, 12:16 PM
^^ I think most people would class 1986 as being old school. Maybe not the founders/architects, but definately old school.

Now 'The Message' could be defined as protest music. Not in quite the same calling out the system way as, say, Public enemy, but still a protest against the current state of affairs in the Reagan era.

And The Message dropped in 1982. Given that the first hip-hop was only hitting wax around 4 years earlier, I'd agree that it pretty much always has had an aspect of protest.

V4D3R
12-05-2007, 12:40 PM
I will tell you this about people in videos and people with a lot of toys - and trying to be the best most powerful richest.

they will find it hard to get to heaven and they lack self-worth deep down.

Machete
12-05-2007, 01:31 PM
P Diddy is / was the downfall of rap.

LuckyTheWonderDog
12-05-2007, 01:39 PM
I don't really think there's much wrong with rap, just the good stuff only kept the dopey publics attention for a period. It's like most music, there's only so long something really good and original can stay popular before cheesy worthless crap replaces it as what sells. The good stuff still gets made though, you just have to look further than MTV to find it.

JKDRevolutionary
12-05-2007, 04:11 PM
hopefully groups like Army of The Pharoahs, La Coka Nostra, THE WU, The Roots, and people like Mos Def and Talib Kweli will give Rap the injection of Adrenaline it needs to stay alive.

IrOnMaN
12-05-2007, 07:02 PM
hopefully groups like Army of The Pharoahs, La Coka Nostra, THE WU, The Roots, and people like Mos Def and Talib Kweli will give Rap the injection of Adrenaline it needs to stay alive.


You forgot Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, Tribe called Quest, and Outcast.:cool:

urbanlegend
12-06-2007, 09:12 AM
I agree with a lot of the comments made about the 'hip-hop' industry today, but I also agree about differentiating between hip-hop and rap. Rap is dying, hip-hop is just going through a phase and will have to endure change (evolution in a sort of sense).

Cee Oh Vee
12-06-2007, 11:42 AM
^ Yep, but I wouldn't say rap is dying, it's the rap music which I think is is dying.

Rap can never die, it's the 1st element of hip hop.

Orion Nebulus
12-07-2007, 11:06 AM
Hip Hop during the 80s and 90s was beautiful. Now it's a shell of it's former self. It's a shame that the younger generation didn't grow up with dope Hip Hop. They are being forced to listen to these stupid nursery rhymes. I understand people have their preferences but would it hurt if these young kids can just sit down and listen to some dope shit....something with a real positive message?

I'm glad I was raised during an era that played some real shit. I listen to the old stuff and todays underground Hip Hop scene. Thats what is keeps me listening. Hearing other music genres doesnt hurt either.

Machete
12-10-2007, 03:23 AM
http://blogs.salon.com/0001991/IMGtoWEB/boombox.jpg


WtF happen to the 'feel good' in rap? muhfuckaz bein brought up thinkin 50 and hotboyz is really real. that's all they know. can i have 1984 back?

STYLE
12-10-2007, 03:57 AM
60's music (hippie music) was just as influencial as hip hop is today. its ideology was peace love and freedom. its movement was global. it was the musical manefestation of that era's youth. yall don't know about woodstock?
yall neede to watch the woodstock documentary then talk about whether it was a culture or not.


rap music is bad because the torch was dropped sometime after big and pac. i love the south i've lived in the south for 15 years but in some aspects the promotion of southern rap music has dumbed down the art form. but thats the industy's fault for seeking the lowest common denominator and pushing it on the public. beginning with No Limit which filled a huge void left after pac's death.

the second reason for the decline is the lack of originality and diversity in the music.
back in the day we had mcs with distinct identities. flow content ect were unique.
now we have a bunch of clones rappin about the same shit. mfs are bitin lines, copying concepts, the shit is ridiculous. there are literally 15 "crank dat" songs now.

even in 94 you had snoop, bone, the wu, pharcyde, boot camp, outkast, redman and scarface all getting shine and selling records. thats diversity. and everyone had all of those albums. which tells me that peoples tastes are not as "onesided" as the industry is trying to make them.

STYLE
12-10-2007, 05:05 AM
aOIJtS4gbaY

KERZO
12-10-2007, 06:20 AM
hip-hop is more of a movement than a genre because it encompasses so many styles. The nature of hip-hop means it can always change and adapt to society unlike other genres which only ever sound one way.

And if you get tired of the music that's released these days, just listen to the old classic's a light up a big one :b

Esquire
12-10-2007, 08:09 AM
I don't think Hip-hop is necessarily dying or dead, it's just in the process of moving from one age to another. With all changes and developments musically, people will always have their grievances. Time will tell, although this thread has made many valid points with regards to the music industry today. It's up to us as people to maintain this culture that we live.

Cee Oh Vee
12-10-2007, 11:10 AM
hip-hop is more of a movement than a genre because it encompasses so many styles. The nature of hip-hop means it can always change and adapt to society unlike other genres which only ever sound one way.

And if you get tired of the music that's released these days, just listen to the old classic's a light up a big one :b

Hmm, I understand what you're getting at with that opinion, but I prefer to think of hip hop as a culture, as opposed to a "movement" because really, in my eyes, it can never die.

But that's just my opinion. :-)