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View Full Version : Is there any rap producer in the same league as PRIMO and RZA?


shaolin-killa
02-13-2008, 04:21 AM
I wouldn't put anyone above them (and cant even choose a #1 ), i know some people going to say DRE but i disagree.. DRE makes ill beats, but in my opinion he can only make bangers, not classic's.

Edgar Erebus
02-13-2008, 05:39 AM
Of course is.


RZA
Pete Rock
Large Professor
and yeah, Dr. Dre


And what's that shit Dre can make bangers and not classics? If you don't like G-Funk, aight, it's your opinion, but you gots to give him props for single-handedly starting whole genre of rap music. I can, besides, name Dre beats and beats on par with finest Primo has done.

SL33
02-13-2008, 06:37 AM
rza premo dre....ok, these guys are on everybody's top list, because they actually made classics....

raP music will not achieve another classic.....

shaolin-killa
02-13-2008, 06:37 AM
Haha you must be retarded man, DRE didn't invent shit, he was bugn out tryna push that wreckin crew commercial shit with some real rap talent, heres how it breaks down for me:

It all comes down to what you define as classic, in my opinion, respect to him from bringing that bass and move-your body in the club beats that all the hoz were shakin too, but to me that is steering off from his duty (assuming you define him as a "rap producer") , it is pushing the sound away from the lyrical talent, and instead focusing on those crabs that only listen to beats, he might aswell be producing for britney spears in my opinion..
DRE has mastered the art of creating shit that sells, he is successful because he has a eye for what style the public is looking for and can produce for that market..

To me Premier and RZA have mastered the art of creating classic rap material, that is widely credited and respected among rap fans (commercial and underground alike), and are not defined only as classic beats, but classic songs. They also are not aimed to be successful regardless of the lyrics, as it is the unique combination of where the beat adds to the lyrics (and vice-versa) that makes the count-less amount's of classics that PRIMO and RZA have created..

Pete Rock and Large Professor, both very talented producers who i have mad respect for, they have some classic stuff, but it comes down to opinion, personally i rate them above DRE, but i still cannot put either of them on the same level as RZA or PRIMO. I guess it comes down to a question of personal taste..

NIGHT MAYOR
02-13-2008, 06:55 AM
timberland ? (hate his shit but just adding on)

SL33
02-13-2008, 06:59 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^he makes pop.

shaolin-killa
02-13-2008, 07:26 AM
timberland ? (hate his shit but just adding on)

Timbaland dropped some gold with jay back in the day, but once again more of a commercial type like DRE, not a producer that adds to and helps preserve the unique sound of real hip-hop..

DR. NICK RIVIERA
02-13-2008, 08:02 AM
In the same league, and almost as good.....Muggs....don't hate, he made the beat for Jump Around, psycho Psycho Realm joints and smoke-classics....

diversatile and almost as good as Primo and RZA, I think he needs to be mentioned

THE W
02-13-2008, 09:08 AM
dre's seminal albums doggystyle and the chronic were full of funkadelic beatjacks.

i agree on one thing, dre is a MASTER salesman.

RIINě
02-13-2008, 05:06 PM
4th Disciple >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dre >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Timbaland

PoisonousDarT36
02-13-2008, 05:54 PM
Without a doubt Dr. Dre

Straight Outta Compton, rest of NWA catalogue
The Chronic
Doggystyle
2001

and the countless classic beats he made for other artists (any relevant, popular rapper outside Wu has a beat from Dre, same for Primo) and soundtrack cuts like Natural Born Killaz and Keep Their Heads Ringin.

Revolution
02-17-2008, 03:59 PM
You shouldn't put RZA in the same sentence as Primo.

Primo still makes bangers, RZA doesn't. He fell off badly.

6▓ Chambaz
02-17-2008, 04:18 PM
Producers in the same league?
Dre
Pete Rock
Muggs
True Master (Going to receive a lot of hate, I think the only argument against is his small catalogue, but apart from that makes incredible music and has his own sound, so you can listen to some shit and go "That's a Tru Master Beat")

Rame
02-17-2008, 04:20 PM
You shouldn't put RZA in the same sentence as Primo.

Primo still makes bangers, RZA doesn't. He fell off badly.

Primo isn't as great as he was now.

They're 1 and 2 to me.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
02-17-2008, 04:22 PM
Primo isn't as great as he was now.

They're 1 and 2 to me.

huh? IDK WTF U tried to say

Rame
02-17-2008, 04:25 PM
huh? IDK WTF U tried to say

I fucked up that sentence. :D

Primo isn't as great as he used to be.

Revolution
02-17-2008, 04:26 PM
I think he's saying Primo is #1, RZA is #2.

You're right, though, Primo isn't as good but he still has bangers in him, I haven't heard a good RZA beat in a minute.

6▓ Chambaz
02-17-2008, 04:26 PM
Primo ain't great anymore??? You heard the gems on NYG'z Welcome To G-Dom or big Shug's Street Champ ??? Obviously not. Play It is one of his best beats EVER. And thats sayin' something considering his quality.

Revolution
02-17-2008, 04:28 PM
Primo ain't great anymore??? You heard the gems on NYG'z Welcome To G-Dom or big Shug's Street Champ ??? Obviously not. Play It is one of his best beats EVER. And thats sayin' something considering his quality.

Word. I just wish he would stop giving those gems to average MC's.

Rame
02-17-2008, 04:30 PM
Primo ain't great anymore??? You heard the gems on NYG'z Welcome To G-Dom or big Shug's Street Champ ??? Obviously not. Play It is one of his best beats EVER. And thats sayin' something considering his quality.

That's not what I said.

Dragondude_R
02-17-2008, 04:48 PM
Premo=Pete Rock > RZA

Premier is my favorite, though.

Others are Marley Marl, DITC fam (Diamond D, Lord Finesse, Buckwild, Showbiz), Prince Paul, Beatminerz (before their sound kinda switched, although they're still great), Erick Sermon (see Beatminerz), etc.

SickSide
02-17-2008, 04:55 PM
Always liked Stoupes beats

kwabena1041
02-17-2008, 06:37 PM
True Master and Mathematics, both have potential to be, and 4th Disciple

Guarded By Martyrs
02-17-2008, 08:27 PM
Stoupe...The Enemy Of Mankind
DJ Muggs
Dr. Dre
Necro

I would also like to mention Blue Sky Black Death...
As they have the greatest potential to break into this league.
And obviously Tru Master, 4th Disciple, Allah Mathematics are all worthy mentions.

PoisonousDarT36
02-17-2008, 08:28 PM
Producers in the same league?
Dre
Pete Rock
Muggs
True Master (Going to receive a lot of hate, I think the only argument against is his small catalogue, but apart from that makes incredible music and has his own sound, so you can listen to some shit and go "That's a Tru Master Beat")

you could say that same thing for Pharrell, Timbaland, 9th Wonder, Jermaine Dupri, and Eminem. It doesn't make a producer better to use similar sounds all the time.

LA zoo
02-17-2008, 08:40 PM
DJ Quik(IMO, he's on the level of the Rza/very different styles, though), (of course) Dr. Dre, J-Dilla, and Pete Rock. Pimp C had a dope signature style(with the organs) for the South, too. Earthtone, Outkast, and the whole Dungeon Family should be included as some of the greatest producers, as well(with all the classic Outkast and Goodie Mob albums).

Man @ Armz
02-17-2008, 09:05 PM
I cant believe nobodies mentioned MF DOOM yet hes a GOD in my books

Man @ Armz
02-17-2008, 09:06 PM
and im a have to agree on the BSBD mention FOUR disks strong of solid material

PoisonousDarT36
02-17-2008, 10:17 PM
DJ Quik(IMO, he's on the level of the Rza/very different styles, though), (of course) Dr. Dre, J-Dilla, and Pete Rock. Pimp C had a dope signature style(with the organs) for the South, too. Earthtone, Outkast, and the whole Dungeon Family should be included as some of the greatest producers, as well(with all the classic Outkast and Goodie Mob albums).

Organized Noise did a lot of work on OutKast's first two, and Goodie Mob's first two. Heavily underrated producers.

LORD NOSE
02-17-2008, 10:37 PM
i'm the greatest beat maker and producer ever hands down

shaolin-killa
02-18-2008, 04:58 AM
Word. I just wish he would stop giving those gems to average MC's.

example?

NY_Mami
02-18-2008, 05:40 AM
Pete Rock, J Dilla, Large Professor, etc.......

Durag
02-18-2008, 06:57 AM
Ya Premo and RZA would be top for me, along with Large Professor, Pete Rock.

I think the Wu-elements are dope, but how can you fuckin include True Master in the list of greatest producers, when he hasnt really done fuck all? Ya, their all bangers, but he could have fuckin hundreds of garbage beats, and only realeases the best, thats why he has so little. 4th Desciple is the only one who can hold their weight, with the Killarmy albums, and contributions to various other artists. Although, less said of 'Freedom Of Speech' the better.

Other personal favourites include:
Stoupe the Enemy Of Mankind
Blue Sky Black Death
For that orchestral, expansive and beautiful sound.

D.I.T.C click (Lord Finesse, Buckwild, Showbiz, Diamond D). Fuckin Amazing producers, that contain that real hip-hop sound, and the best group of producers in any group. (Yes, far better than the Wu-elements.

Beatminerz are dope too, i prefer their older stuff, which was fuckin gold.

6▓ Chambaz
02-18-2008, 08:15 AM
you could say that same thing for Pharrell, Timbaland, 9th Wonder, Jermaine Dupri, and Eminem. It doesn't make a producer better to use similar sounds all the time.

I ain't meant it as using the same sound, I mean as in they have their own sound, a feel to their beats. In Tru's case Fish/Heaters/Collabo '98 don't sound the same but sound like Tru master's beats. I honestly couldn't tell aJ ermaine beat from any of the producers today

King Tron 1
02-18-2008, 10:02 AM
How can anybody not include Rick Rubin. He produced a heavy overflow of hip-hop beats in the 80's. He produced most of License to Ill, Radio, All World, & with russell simmons Raising Hell. He even produced It's Yours (12" radio mix) by T.La Rock.

Easy Mo Bee is a good producer that no one talks about. He produced the lot of Words From the Genius, Ready to Die, & produced for 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G., Big Daddy Kane, & Busta Rhymes. The Only Producer To Work With Both 2Pac & Biggie when they were alive.

Marley Marl is another great producer that people forget to mention. He has an extensive catalogue of beats that people recognize as classic. Aint No Half-Steppin, Mama Said Knock You Out, Vapors, Me & The Biz, & The Original Symphony. He produced the most of Lords of the Underworld's Here Come The Lords & Keepers of the Funk, Big Daddy Kane's Long Live The Kane, Biz Markie's Goin' Off & Biz's Baddest Beats, Kool G Rap & DJ Polo's Road to the Riches, Masta Ace's Take A Look Around, LL Cool J's Mama Said Knock You Out & 14 Shots to the Dome, & MC Shan's Down By Law & Born To Be Wild. He Inspired both Rza & Primo, so how can't he be included?

Others To Mention:
Pete Rock
Prince Paul
Lord Finesse, Showbiz, Diamond D & Buckwild
Hi-Tek
J Dilla
Madlib
MF DOOM
The Bomb Squad

Surely Not All Beats By All Artists Are Great Or Hip-Hop Classics, But These Producers Do Need Recognition. Peaxe!

The Prime Sithesizah
02-18-2008, 11:25 AM
Personally, I think Erick Sermon somewhat excels Premo but people kinda OVERRATED Premier to the fullest, so I won't argue.. it's like I said before though.. Sermon puts different era timelines (40s,50s, 60s, 80s, 90s) of samples into his shit and it comes out so beautiful... he's EEEAASSSIILYY in the top 2 or 3 of all time, JUST from his work with Redman..

Guarded By Martyrs
02-18-2008, 12:42 PM
I was listening to a "Molemen" CD yesterday...
Are they worthy ?
Because the beats were CRYPTIC !!!!

Also :

...Alchemist ???
...Havoc ???

PoisonousDarT36
02-18-2008, 03:00 PM
How can anybody not include Rick Rubin. He produced a heavy overflow of hip-hop beats in the 80's. He produced most of License to Ill, Radio, All World, & with russell simmons Raising Hell. He even produced It's Yours (12" radio mix) by T.La Rock.

Easy Mo Bee is a good producer that no one talks about. He produced the lot of Words From the Genius, Ready to Die, & produced for 2Pac, Notorious B.I.G., Big Daddy Kane, & Busta Rhymes. The Only Producer To Work With Both 2Pac & Biggie when they were alive.

Marley Marl is another great producer that people forget to mention. He has an extensive catalogue of beats that people recognize as classic. Aint No Half-Steppin, Mama Said Knock You Out, Vapors, Me & The Biz, & The Original Symphony. He produced the most of Lords of the Underworld's Here Come The Lords & Keepers of the Funk, Big Daddy Kane's Long Live The Kane, Biz Markie's Goin' Off & Biz's Baddest Beats, Kool G Rap & DJ Polo's Road to the Riches, Masta Ace's Take A Look Around, LL Cool J's Mama Said Knock You Out & 14 Shots to the Dome, & MC Shan's Down By Law & Born To Be Wild. He Inspired both Rza & Primo, so how can't he be included?

Others To Mention:
Pete Rock
Prince Paul
Lord Finesse, Showbiz, Diamond D & Buckwild
Hi-Tek
J Dilla
Madlib
MF DOOM
The Bomb Squad

Surely Not All Beats By All Artists Are Great Or Hip-Hop Classics, But These Producers Do Need Recognition. Peaxe!

Rick is a legend but he's old school so he can get overlooked by people my age. I agree with Easy Mo Bee, he has to be mentioned just for Ready to Die, which he produced almost all of. Everyday Struggle is one of the best beats of all time. And I'm surprised Marley Marl wasn't mentioned too. Good post.

DiMidio
02-18-2008, 04:02 PM
Havoc, Alchemist & Muggs

King Tron 1
02-19-2008, 09:54 AM
Where Do Ya'll Put Just Blaze?

shaolin-killa
02-19-2008, 07:11 PM
Of course is.


RZA
Pete Rock
Large Professor
and yeah, Dr. Dre


And what's that shit Dre can make bangers and not classics? If you don't like G-Funk, aight, it's your opinion, but you gots to give him props for single-handedly starting whole genre of rap music. I can, besides, name Dre beats and beats on par with finest Primo has done.

example??

PoisonousDarT36
02-19-2008, 07:12 PM
Where Do Ya'll Put Just Blaze?

He's top 10 but not touching Primo, RZA or Dre

THE W
02-19-2008, 07:50 PM
You shouldn't put RZA in the same sentence as Primo.

Primo still makes bangers, RZA doesn't. He fell off badly.
i guess you didnt like afro samurai or the tracks he did for method man. those were indeed bangers. also tracks like "brutality" and "beat you down".

neither of these producers have made any noise in a long time. in fact virtually none of the producers that anyone has named in this thread have done anything significant in a long time.

Focus Man
02-19-2008, 10:03 PM
Dj Quik
Johnny J
Timbaland
Just Blaze
Danger Mouse
Kanye West

I consider these producers incredible. To say that they are on the same level as RZA and Premo...that depends on ur taste i guess. I like em all, RZA, Premo, and the ones i mentioned.

DR. NICK RIVIERA
02-20-2008, 01:36 AM
Raekwon











bwahahahhahaha

BronzearmzNYC
02-20-2008, 04:48 AM
DJ Premier is overrated? What the fuck are you talkng about? This has been on the scene since, '88 and is only getting better. He can make ANYONE, sound good ( Even the Black Eyed Peas )He is the best of all time. Erick Sermon( Im one of the biggest, EPMD fans out here) yes , he is in the top 10. ( Erick Sermon puts different era timelines (40s,50s, 60s, 80s, 90s) of samples into his shit and it comes out so beautifulin) Hmmm, DJ Premier, doesnt do this shit? What the fuck are you talking about?

The Prime Sithesizah
02-20-2008, 07:49 AM
DJ Premier is overrated? What the fuck are you talkng about? This has been on the scene since, '88 and is only getting better. He can make ANYONE, sound good ( Even the Black Eyed Peas )He is the best of all time. Erick Sermon( Im one of the biggest, EPMD fans out here) yes , he is in the top 10. ( Erick Sermon puts different era timelines (40s,50s, 60s, 80s, 90s) of samples into his shit and it comes out so beautifulin) Hmmm, DJ Premier, doesnt do this shit? What the fuck are you talking about?


But name ONE beat where Premier has combined all of those eras into ONE beat.. You're basing Premier's greatness off of "CLASSICS" ... "CONSISTENCY" and "LONGEVITY", pretty much the typical perspective. Outside of the scratches, vocal samples, the ear-catching melodies, his ability to sample well-known old songs in a completely different format and the side-samples you may hear in the background of a Premo beat, what else astonishes you? I don't take anything from Premo, I know he's a very very very very good producer/beatmaker but putting him above Erick Sermon is what really makes me state that he's overrated. I mean, be honest with yourself, there were MANY GangStarr tracks that you could skip just as you could skip Sermon's latest material. But when you talk about GREATNESS, you're key factors are "COMPLEXITY"... "ORIGINALITY".. and "QUALITY". Premier hasn't really changed that much and hasn't really expanded as much as you would like to believe that he has. Erick Sermon has set levels that, at times, The RZA has yet to reach as far as constructing beats. Go back to some of the early early EPMD, Keith Murray and Redman albums.. even some of E's own albums.. the beats were entirely MASSIVE to the music world. Like it or not, even Premier in his prime, he couldn't see Sermon. THE ONLY REASON Sermon isn't as supreme as he once was is because he started coming off original without the samples. Other than that, NOBODY could compare to the man.

The Prime Sithesizah
02-20-2008, 08:19 AM
Just go to Youtube and look up all of his old joints, the EPMD days.. Redman... Keith Murray .... Red & Meth Blackout album... easily makes him the 2nd greatest, if not better than The RZA.

THE W
02-22-2008, 11:04 AM
is e-dubs stuff really that good? i used to own muddy waters and blackout and i thought those were at best decent but nothing to write home about. i'd take in stereo over both those albums.

quality and originality are indeed key factors but complexity is more of a bonus. many of hiphop's greatest beats were just looped breakbeats with sampled drums. nowadays you got cats making these synth beats and many of them are weak. if the beeat sounds like shit, its shit, doesnt matter what elements you brought to the table. music has to sound good, period.

my musical pet peeve is when a producer will just plagerize something. example, holla, i cant go to sleep, my guitar, etc.

The Prime Sithesizah
02-22-2008, 11:12 AM
is e-dubs stuff really that good? i used to own muddy waters and blackout and i thought those were at best decent but nothing to write home about. i'd take in stereo over both those albums.

quality and originality are indeed key factors but complexity is more of a bonus. many of hiphop's greatest beats were just looped breakbeats with sampled drums. nowadays you got cats making these synth beats and many of them are weak. if the beeat sounds like shit, its shit, doesnt matter what elements you brought to the table. music has to sound good, period.

my musical pet peeve is when a producer will just plagerize something. example, holla, i cant go to sleep, my guitar, etc.



Go through the EPMD, Keith Murray, Def Squad anndd Redman albums... his versatility is just PERFECT... nevertheless, I'm not applying what he brought to the table as much as how futuristic he was and still is... Sermon's catalogue is rather intricate in the same view as you would look at The RZA's work overall.. I think his work is way over your heads..

Just like how when The RZA drops something new and you consider it garbage when it's a work of art.. it's the same way with Sermon... I consider them to be the ONLLLYYY masterminds behind the boards.. their material is just toooooo much of a prospect..

The Prime Sithesizah
02-22-2008, 11:19 AM
Its more on the edge, EASIER, to say that Premier uses the BETTER SAMPLES but seriously.. overall better than Sermon?... No way at all.. but thats IMO..

THE W
02-22-2008, 04:02 PM
i consider it garbage because its sounds bad, it doesnt matter how much you put into it. but if you want to judge music on complexity then thats fine with me.

pmack215
03-12-2008, 09:24 AM
all the wu-elements (4th, true mas, math...), stoop from jedi mind tricks, 9th wonder, but i think RZA is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy better than all!!!

LuckyTheWonderDog
03-12-2008, 09:36 AM
Prince Paul

Sgt Holly Wood
03-19-2008, 04:32 PM
well my fave producer is neither preem or rza, pete rock is iller than both imo

but after comes preem then rza

dj8oyc3y
03-23-2008, 05:32 AM
I wouldn't put anyone above them (and cant even choose a #1 ), i know some people going to say DRE but i disagree.. DRE makes ill beats, but in my opinion he can only make bangers, not classic's.
Clearly Dre can & has made classics, if you had listened to The D.o.c`s album you would know this, also lets not forget Dre`s old man was part of the r&b group the Romells

Longbongcilvaringz
03-23-2008, 05:44 AM
dre's seminal albums doggystyle and the chronic were full of funkadelic beatjacks.

i agree on one thing, dre is a MASTER salesman.

my thoughts exactly.

his peak work sounded good, but he didnt do anything amazing.

putting the guy in the same league as Premo or RZA as a producer of music is imbecilic. he has a heap of help with the majority of his beats anyway.

Stoupe is definitely equally as good as RZA, and in my opinion probably makes better music.

Muggs is up there.

Longbongcilvaringz
03-23-2008, 05:59 AM
is e-dubs stuff really that good? i used to own muddy waters and blackout and i thought those were at best decent but nothing to write home about. i'd take in stereo over both those albums.

quality and originality are indeed key factors but complexity is more of a bonus. many of hiphop's greatest beats were just looped breakbeats with sampled drums. nowadays you got cats making these synth beats and many of them are weak. if the beeat sounds like shit, its shit, doesnt matter what elements you brought to the table. music has to sound good, period.

my musical pet peeve is when a producer will just plagerize something. example, holla, i cant go to sleep, my guitar, etc.

its amazing how hard this fact is for so many people to comprehend/

Longbongcilvaringz
03-23-2008, 06:02 AM
Prince Paul

im not sure why ive just posted 3 times in a row, but anyway.

got to agree once more, if your focusing on people that are in that group Prince Paul is definitely up there.

for me personally, hed be in my top 10 as oppose to top ten, simply because hes more of a solid producer as oppose to an amazing one.

but in terms of influence, innovation, creativity and skill he isnt out of place mentioned among the greats.

SickSide
03-23-2008, 06:31 AM
Stoupe is criminally slept on by the casual listener, he makes some insane beats

Longbongcilvaringz
03-23-2008, 07:37 AM
and their the kind of beats that leave you awestruck.

in my opinion anyway.

he may not have the same number of classic albums or the same amount of material as the others, but his production skill is unrivaled.

RADIOACTIVE MAN
03-24-2008, 11:42 AM
pete rock,dj scratch

MainoffenderKZ
03-25-2008, 08:53 AM
my fav producer are:
Rza,
Necro
Pete Rock
and
i dont know alot about marley marl but i know is damn good lol.

bad boy T
03-25-2008, 11:34 AM
other than RZA
4th disciple
J Dillar
Dr Dre
Just Blaze
Swizz beats

Sinistarr
03-25-2008, 05:02 PM
Eminem - Renegade (Jay-Z), Don't Come Down (Obie Trice), Who Do You Love (2pac), Til I Collapse, Git Up (D12)... his 5 best beats, classics i say, and there all diverse to say the least

Lord Finnese - the main man behind Big L, need i say more??

L.E.S - Nas has good lyrics, but if there complimented by countless dope beats it adds so much more

Pete Rock - has been a legend since forever

J Dilla - King of the Underground

and whoever produced Capital Punishment by Big Pun... cos that album is like the greatest collection of music i've ever heard