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STYLE
04-28-2008, 12:21 AM
So I'm reading the OBL/just 4 men thread.....

LOL@ all these liberal conspiracy theorists on this site.

Nick if you clear away conspiracy talk and look at the facts you will begin to question the whole situation.

QOP commented about 9/11 and Bin Laden...
I lost my cousin in Tower 2 and her body has never been found.............now they want to build shit there..............so how should I take this?

Be Angry
i know this is a KTL type subject but i want to discuss this with folks who don't believe in the illuminat, search their house for hidden cameras or wear tinfoil hats to block the brainwashing radiowaves.


1. right after 9/11 the gov claimed there was no way of knowing or even imagining that someone would use a hijacked commercial plane as a missile.

FACT-it is documented that the gov ran simulations and drills involving a hijacked plane hitting civilian and military targets, specifically WTC and the Pentagon.



2. Al-Qaeda is painted to be the enemy.

FACT- every administration since Carter has supported the militant islamic movement.


At the time of the 1993 WTC bombing, the Clinton Administration and al Qaeda were actively collaborating in joint military operations in Bosnia.

The US facilitated the pipeline of arms, mujahedin and VEVAK(the iranian CIA) operatives to bosnia. this also included US inspections of missles sent in from IRAN for use by bosnian muslims.



NATO AND THE US MILITARY COLLABORATED WITH AL QAEDA IN KOSOVO (1995-1999)


Military Professional Resources (MPRI), a mercenary company on contract to the Pentagon was involved in the training the KLA (kosovo liberation army).

The KLA was also trained by US and British Special Forces. But the KLA was also trained by Al Qaeda.

The US collaborated in training a terrorist organization which has with links to al Qaeda, the drug trade and organized crime.


Bin Laden's Afghan Terror Camps were funded by the US gov along with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. The CIA provided training in Urban warfare which included car bombing.

The CIA even created a recruitment/ center in Brooklyn, NYC at the al Kifah Refugee Centre to train and send "freedom fighters" to afghanistan.


the alleged moneyman of 9/11 met frequently with US officials
Bob Graham and Porter Goss were in Islamabad in late August 2001, meeting General Mahmoud Ahmad, the alleged "money man" behind 9/11

September 4th 2001 General Mahmoud Ahmad meets with CIA Dir, George Tenet and Colin Powell in washington.

Bob Graham and Porter Goss would later be called on to head up the 9/11 investigation commitee.










Lets post documented facts that contradict the "official 9/11, alqaeda, OBL" story.

Sicka than aidZ
04-28-2008, 02:00 AM
that's crazed man

yeah its a big fuckinn conspiracy, i dont know im 3500 miles away from nyc but i know a cover up when i see it.

U ever been to nyc styles?

diggy
04-28-2008, 02:14 AM
:clap:

STYLE
04-28-2008, 02:19 AM
that's crazed man

yeah its a big fuckinn conspiracy, i dont know im 3500 miles away from nyc but i know a cover up when i see it.

U ever been to nyc styles?

yup i've been too many times to count. i spent 1/2 of 2005 in new haven, a 40 min ride from the bronx. i used to hang out in BX, tryn to get at them spanish broads.

crass
04-28-2008, 02:46 AM
You're a fucking idiot if you think 9/11 was an inside job. The only thing more pathetic has been how the USA has dealt with terrorism since then.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 02:57 AM
You're a fucking idiot if you think 9/11 was an inside job. The only thing more pathetic has been how the USA has dealt with terrorism since then.

its only idiotic because you say it is.

you are in denial of the facts even when they are staring you in the face.

but please, i am open to hearing conflicting ideas.

diggy
04-28-2008, 03:03 AM
Many if not all of wars were started with deception.

I made a thread about 911 a few weeks ago showing video proof of testimonies of people who were in the wtc buildings (workers, firemen) who have stated that as they were leaving the wtc building, explosions were going off in the basement, the eighth floor and other floors.

Some of these explosions were seen many others were heard.

Controlled demolition.

6˛ Chambaz
04-28-2008, 03:06 AM
SM, you've seen Zeitgeist too many times... But, fuck it, I think that it was a inside job.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 04:13 AM
i haven't been able to completely figure it all out yet. but i do know that there is a whole lot more to the story then what has been presented to the public.

it's like if one of my close friends robs ur house. you tell me about it and i tell you about how bad this person is but completely leave out the fact about him being my friend and how we used to rob homes together.

then you happen to see a youtube vid with me and him kickin it. he's left comments on my myspace page and is in my top 8.

you might begin to think i had something to do with u getting robbed, especially if you see me with an ipod that looks just like the one you had.

i mean why not be honest and say yeah thats my boy what he did was fucked up tho and i'll make it right.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-28-2008, 05:09 AM
Thing is..... you dont KNOW this.

so please, dont pretend you do.

Other people can say they know the towers went down because they were crashed into by a plane.... because they saw it.

Speculate all you wants playas, just stop pretending you KNOW these things.

002
04-28-2008, 06:00 AM
I had dinner with a romanian minister at my uncle's house once, and he said it was an inside job.....

STYLE
04-28-2008, 06:35 AM
Thing is..... you dont KNOW this.

so please, dont pretend you do.

Other people can say they know the towers went down because they were crashed into by a plane.... because they saw it.

Speculate all you wants playas, just stop pretending you KNOW these things.



does this eyewitness rule apply to everything?

6˛ Chambaz
04-28-2008, 06:37 AM
Well, I honestly haven't seen any interviews or heard about the people who died ON the planes

DR. NICK RIVIERA
04-28-2008, 07:21 AM
Well, I honestly haven't seen any interviews or heard about the people who died ON the planes

The truth.

I also believe it was an inside job. If the US were controlled by ninjas, there would be honor and things like this wouldn't happen.




Peace, save the babies.

6˛ Chambaz
04-28-2008, 08:54 AM
The truth.

I also believe it was an inside job. If the US were controlled by ninjas, there would be honor and things like this wouldn't happen.




Peace, save the babies.
Yeah, the last true Ninjas got sent to fight in Iraq. A friend of mine, who has a master's degree in ninjaneering got sent down there. Found Saddam two days later

DR. NICK RIVIERA
04-28-2008, 09:30 AM
Man, all of the Iraqis have mustaches, I thought they were mistaken, that they brought the wrong one, but a ninja cannot make a mistake

V4D3R
04-28-2008, 09:47 AM
I watched Zeigeist with my woman's parent this past weekend - man what a bad idea.
Baby boomers are very close minded when it comes to big paradigm shifts.

But things where pointed out to me when it comes to these facts in movies like Zeigeist- whose facts are these? Why does the movie need a 9 minute intro to set your mind up to be angry?

Although I do agree with most of the facts - it's hard to understand how with so many facts why nothing can be done. So many people need to be awakened; it's overwhelming.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 11:38 AM
Baby boomers are very close minded when it comes to big paradigm shifts.


it's funny that they were part of a movement that was just as radical in terms of thinking.



peace and love movement,

V4D3R
04-28-2008, 01:11 PM
did we mention NORAD standing down? u mean they can intercept planes in like 5 muntes flying over DC but on 9/11 planes flew into our national military headquarters, AND THEN the pentagon wouldnt even release the video tapes.
On 9/11 - NORAD conveniently had exercises simulating what was really going on. Multiple hijackings.


A video on the topic. Al Qaeda prison in IRAQ
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/04/28/btsc.iraqprison/index.html#cnnSTCVideo

TSA
04-28-2008, 02:18 PM
the whole "the US trained terrorist" angle is the gayest Palehorsery since reptilian egyptian aryans.


the US trained Bin Laden as a part of THE COLD WAR, they, due to limited foresight, and information, saw Bin Laden fighting the soviets and figured

"He hates commis cause they hate religion"

the DIDNT know he hated WHITE PEOPLE period.


they funded them in his fight against soviets, he won, took over afganistan, nobody cared cause Afganistan is a failed backwater

THEN he started attacking us, which ended his funding.



it wasn't "the US trained Bin Laden so that Bin Laden could fake an attack on us to the government would have 'more power bwa-ha-ha' "

it was, we thought you were cool, then you got all gay, but in truth you were a faggot to begin with, faggot.









Conspiracy theory's and belief in inside jobs in based on the fact that we want to feel comfortable from our fear. We therefore believe in an all knowing and all powerful government that's "looking over us" and anything that happens is controlled by them because the fact that the all power being "looking over us" can't stop most people is horrifying.


If i were the government i would publish my own conspiracy theories, just so people think im more powerful then i really am thus giving me mo' power. AND so i'll get mo' pussy.

Huggasaurus Sex
04-28-2008, 02:54 PM
http://www.bulgereport.com/pix/bulgereport_fighters_08.jpg

TSA
04-28-2008, 03:46 PM
AHAhahAHAHahahahaA
stud.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 05:05 PM
TSA, that was the most uninformed, misguided, paper covered in red marker, sit in the corner wif tha dunce cap, analysis of Bin Laden.

you completely pulled that out of your ass. it was all based on your opinion not FACT. all you know is we fucked with OBL in the cold war. thats where your knowledge ends.

you don't read. if you happened to read my initial post you'd at least know we fucked with OBL UP UNTIL 9/11.

This is not about conspiracy theories and making up answers or what you THINK IS TRUE.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT PRESENTING FACTS THAT CONTRADICT THE OFFICIAL STORY.


FACTS FACTS FACTS

THAT SHIT MAY WORK AT UR SCHOOL
BUT NOT HERE BUDDY.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
04-28-2008, 05:08 PM
His summary was the most logical and FACT-BASED conclusion that can be drawn from what we do know about the relationship between the United States government and Bin-Laden.

We fucked up in our dealings with bin-laden, but it was shortsightedness, not a massive conspiracy.

Buzk
04-28-2008, 05:20 PM
8n-nT-luFIw

STYLE
04-28-2008, 05:23 PM
His summary was the most logical and OPINION-BASED conclusion that can be drawn from what we do know about the relationship between the United States government and Bin-Laden.


fixed ur post.

the only fact TSA presented was a relationship during the cold war. but he even fucked that up because we did not fund OBL,
he was a multi millionaire(billionaire in you account for inflation). he matched and many occasions surpassed the funding we provided.

FACTS FACTS FACTS


This "sounds good so it must be true" mentality
is why we are in this fucked up situation in the 1st place.


still nobody presents facts.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
04-28-2008, 05:25 PM
I respect what you're implying to some degree, because it would be foolish to take a popular perspective as gospel.

However, you also have to admit that there are no FACTS that support anything to the contrary.

And while a consensus of former and present government officials might not technically be fact, it can be written off as fraud and worthless.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 05:34 PM
I respect what you're implying to some degree, because it would be foolish to take a popular perspective as gospel.

However, you also have to admit that there are no FACTS that support anything to the contrary.

And while a consensus of former and present government officials might not technically be fact, it can be written off as fraud and worthless.

i marked in red the incorrect statements. your basing things on opinion.

give facts the support what u say.

go read my 1st post. its full of facts not opinion.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
04-28-2008, 05:44 PM
I just read every single one of those facts, and they are all based on government transcript, which you just said had no validity.

I, however, do not dispute any of that information. It is all the truth, as we know it.

However, they do not logically lead to anything whatsoever. Random facts can be listed, but they do not tell the whole story.

And even taken out of context, it would take some pretty flawed reasoning to take the information provided and conclude that it logically leads to the United States being involved with 911.

I think the US dropped the ball. THere probably was some sort of prior Hint, not knowledge, that something could happen, but the United States government was also sifting through more information than it was caplable of processing, and our hubris probably had something to do with it as well, but this, like this entire conversation, on both of our ends, is basically speculation.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 05:50 PM
Official story- Due to the extreme heat of the jet fuel fires, the support collapsed and the floors pancaked to the ground.


FACTS
The towers fell faster(almost freefall) than they should have if they were pancaking.
The volume of dust was not consistent with being the product of a gravity-driven collapse.
The South Tower's top shattered before falling, its breakup was not a result of gravity-driven crushing.
jet fuel does not burn hot enuff or long enuff to melt steel.
the smoke from the towers was black. a sign that a fire is cooling off.

TSA
04-28-2008, 05:51 PM
i just find it mind boggling that an attack on a corrupt global empire is something someone can't imagine happening UNLESS it's an inside job


i can easily say that if i wanted to bomb any major sykescraper in the US i can do it (if i knew how to make bombs) and so can the rest of you

to think that the US has to INVENT and hire enemies for "more powauh" or whatever is just ludacris




http://www.musicsnews.com/content_images/Ludacris%20l.jpg
^This ludacris






Osama bin laden is a declared enemy of the united states with billions of dollars in funding and millions of supporters, you REALLY think he needs to cooperate with bush in order to bomb towers


and then look at his stated goal. Push the US out of the middle east, get rid of israel, things that, for the sake of "mo pawuh" we don't want. So when we were negotiating with him on plans to attack the US, where does he win? what did he get out of the deal.."mo' powauh?"

add to the fact that all the conspiracy theories are based on factless nit picking and connect the dot logic



The US has enemies
Enemies attack enemies

it really ends there.

TSA
04-28-2008, 05:54 PM
i'd also like to say that I for a lack of real information can only speak on opinion and use facts and logic before me to tie together the conclusion that makes most sense in my view.


the same with all of you.


so lets not lie to ourselves and assume we "know" what happened, because you and i really don't.

i will only speak from my logical standpoint, as everyone else should too, and respect each others

HarlemDiplomat
04-28-2008, 05:58 PM
awww shit.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 05:58 PM
i made no conclusions i just asked to find facts that contradicted the official story.

i never said gov transcripts were invalid. you made that assumption.

flawed reasoning is denial in spite of facts.

but anyway...
your logic and flawless reasoning would be much more powerful if they were supported by fact.

Sky Blue Danny Kid
04-28-2008, 06:02 PM
i made no conclusions i just asked to find facts that contradicted the official story.

i never said gov transcripts were invalid. you made that assumption.

flawed reasoning is denial in spite of facts.

but anyway...
your logic and flawless reasoning would be much more powerful if they were supported by fact.

^^I really don't have any response for that, as it is true. However, I was ALMOST motivated to look up some facts to support my non-argument.

And if i weren't so lazy, I bet I could have produced some sort of fact using the internet and records of official government policy, firsthand accounts, expenditures, etc, but as it is, I concede this round.

TSA
04-28-2008, 06:06 PM
there's no need to look up facts

the US has enemies
Enemies attack enemies

i want you to find all the evidence that every WWII battle was an inside job.



































































see how retarded that sounded?

Philosophy
04-28-2008, 07:03 PM
there's no need to look up facts

the US has enemies
Enemies attack enemies

i want you to find all the evidence that every WWII battle was an inside job.



































































see how retarded that sounded?

But during WWII we declared war/knew war was coming to an extent(pearl harbor)

before 9/11 there was no major public war the US was involved in at that time. after 9/11 shit went down.

reason to start wars?

http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/5/5/condi_conan.jpg


wants

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/253500/253725gLnk_w.jpg

TSA
04-28-2008, 08:00 PM
that pic didn't work but if that's oil then that's not true.

oil has become more of a problem since the war, and imperialism in 2008 is done by corporations because the formula has been improved and made easier

military take over is too risky expensive and dangerous

the US wants to establish bases to counter china's corporate/debt imperialism and growing influence.

that's why were are in iraq, but 9/11 was done by people independant of the government.

STYLE
04-28-2008, 08:56 PM
there was advance knowledge of the jap fleet on its way to hawaii.

B4 pearl harbor we were not going to go to war.



ooooh shit!


and you just said that it takes a BOMB to blow up a skyscraper.

my point exactly.

TSA
04-28-2008, 09:00 PM
*hands stylemaster a cookie because he tried*


you know your country has no problems whatsoever when you have to start imagining it making it's own problems

Huggasaurus Sex
04-28-2008, 10:18 PM
Official story- Due to the extreme heat of the jet fuel fires, the support collapsed and the floors pancaked to the ground.


FACTS
The towers fell faster(almost freefall) than they should have if they were pancaking.

http://www.911myths.com/assets/images/Collapse.jpg

- the debris at the bottom of this picture is in free fall. the floors collapsing above it are not. that's a fact. here's information about it (http://www.911myths.com/html/freefall.html). and here's more (http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm).

The volume of dust was not consistent with being the product of a gravity-driven collapse.

how could you possibly know "for a fact" how much dust was supposed to be dispersed in an unprecedented collapse like that?

J.L. Hudson’s in Detroit, Michigan, the tallest building ever razed, was 439 ft. (26 stories)
http://www.implosionworld.com/records.htm

WTC 7 was 570 ft. (47 stories) 1.3 times the height of the J.L. Hudson. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center

WTC 1/2 was 1,368 ft. (110 stories) 3.12 times the height of J.L. Hudson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_World_Trade_Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_World_Trade_Center

So, on 9/11, three buildings were razed with perfect precision. One was 131 ft. taller than the record tower and the other two (minus cell phone antennas) were 929 ft. taller than the record holder.

The Hudson Building “It took us 24 days with 12 people doing nothing but loading explosives…” James Santoro – Controlled Demolition Incorporated"
http://www.history.com/media.do?id=most_hudsons_implosion_broadband&action=clip

Even according to the Loose Change guys, the heightened security and bomb-sniffing dogs had only been lifted for 5 days.

The South Tower's top shattered before falling, its breakup was not a result of gravity-driven crushing.

i had no idea you were a structural engineer.

jet fuel does not burn hot enuff or long enuff to melt steel.

yup that one's a fact. also a fact is that lighter fluid does not burn hot enough or long enough to cook food yet its often present at barbecues. another fact is that steel will weaken well before it melts and 110 story buildings made of steel have a hard time standing when key supports are weakened.

the smoke from the towers was black. a sign that a fire is cooling off.


yes smoke can only be black if the fire is cooling off and since there was black smoke at ground zero that is strong evidence that the fire was cooling off which could only mean that there was a vast, highly organized, and perfectly executed conspiracy by the top levels of our own government to bring down the WTC. there's no other explanation.



none.

GENERAL WISE
04-28-2008, 10:31 PM
This is actually a really dumb thread, IF anything, selected individuals in places of power knew the attack was coming and did nothing about it.


Think about it...

What's easier?

If there were any DIRECT action by the "Home" team (which would put their necks on the line), I would think they would be smart enough for you and I not to know about it.

WOULD...

Longbongcilvaringz
04-28-2008, 10:53 PM
I watched Zeigeist with my woman's parent this past weekend - man what a bad idea.
Baby boomers are very close minded when it comes to big paradigm shifts.

But things where pointed out to me when it comes to these facts in movies like Zeigeist- whose facts are these? Why does the movie need a 9 minute intro to set your mind up to be angry?

Although I do agree with most of the facts - it's hard to understand how with so many facts why nothing can be done. So many people need to be awakened; it's overwhelming.

This is what ive been saying, and people get so angry about it.

That is a fucking terrible piece of cinema, there is no background or evidence.

No matter if you think the ideas presented are factual, the actual movie presents no evidence.

Fucking awful movie.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-28-2008, 10:55 PM
This is actually a really dumb thread, IF anything, selected individuals in places of power knew the attack was coming and did nothing about it.


Think about it...

What's easier?

If there were any DIRECT action by the "Home" team (which would put their necks on the line), I would think they would be smart enough for you and I not to know about it.

WOULD...





Exactly, and i mean, even this is complete speculaltion.

Your point about eye witnesses is confusing stylemasterr, surely your not implying that no planes flew into the trade centers?

STYLE
04-28-2008, 11:04 PM
i'm not saying anything about who was behind it, what happened or why.
all i am saying is that the story we were fed is not sitting right in my stomach.

i am just saying. tell the truth shame the devil.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-28-2008, 11:05 PM
Official story- Due to the extreme heat of the jet fuel fires, the support collapsed and the floors pancaked to the ground.


FACTS
The towers fell faster(almost freefall) than they should have if they were pancaking.
The volume of dust was not consistent with being the product of a gravity-driven collapse.
The South Tower's top shattered before falling, its breakup was not a result of gravity-driven crushing.
jet fuel does not burn hot enuff or long enuff to melt steel.
the smoke from the towers was black. a sign that a fire is cooling off.


There is conjecture surrounding all of these points.

Ive heard arguments from Engineers who purport that either side of the argument are correct.

Regardless of this, as Irondan said, there is still no direct evidence that conspiratorials goings on occured.

I really dont want to get into all of this once again, as there have been a number of threads in here over the years (split into distinct schools of thought: conspiracy theorists who do not rely on fact, american 'patriots' who do not rely on fact, and the people in the middle ground trying to actually make sense of it).

All i will say is that although these may be "facts" drawing a conclusion leads to opinion.

And subjectivity.

People in any aspect of their lives attempt to find justification for coincidences and occurrences, people have the inability to even consider that coincidences may have occurred.

So instead they go to enormous lengths to fathom and understand extraordinary events.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-28-2008, 11:11 PM
i'm not saying anything about who was behind it, what happened or why.
all i am saying is that the story we were fed is not sitting right in my stomach.

i am just saying. tell the truth shame the devil.




This is story ive been fed by the media:

"2 Planes flew into buildings, they fell down".

Strictly from a logical point of view, it is much easier to justify than any conspiracy 'theory'.

People who berate those who believe in the above, are a special breed of stupid.

Feel free to believe what you will, but again, dont pretend to KNOW something unless you actually do.

KTL is full of people who just KNOW things, without actually explaining how.

Now scientifically, as i have said all these 'facts' or contentious, ive read widely enough to see that many engineers do believe that the temperatures reached were high enough to cause a collapse.

Furthermore, the majority of evidence in the contrary is based on watching youtube videos and timing the speed at which the buildings fall, or pursuing government reports which barely touch on the key issues.

But yes, ive rambled, and i did insist that all this is beside the point.

I think that ill believe in what appears most logical at this point in time, and leave it at that.

TSA
04-29-2008, 12:11 AM
ppl cling to a false sense of awareness when they're scared

STYLE
04-29-2008, 12:14 AM
^^^thinks he's aware of the goings on in the vatican^^^^

TSA
04-29-2008, 12:21 AM
http://www.plasticsurgerypa.com/DisplayPages/images/mons_pubis.jpg
"thinks he's aware of the goings on in the vatican"

Longbongcilvaringz
04-29-2008, 12:31 AM
Back Then I Couldn't Do The Things, That I Can Do Now

This Thing Is Slowly Taking Me, Apart

diggy
04-29-2008, 12:37 AM
mWkGhV3PsLo

STYLE
04-29-2008, 12:39 AM
Back Then I Couldn't Do The Things, That I Can Do Now

This Thing Is Slowly Taking Me, Apart



don't fight it. just let it wash over you baby.

Longbongcilvaringz
04-29-2008, 12:40 AM
ha!

Did You Think I Would Recognise, This Compromise?

Am I Just Too Stupid To Realise?